Browse content similar to 24/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
David Cameron warns that a vote to leave the EU would increase | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
the cost of a family holiday abroad, in a speech to EasyJet employees. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, brands the PM "Dishonest Dave" | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
We'll bring you all the latest from the campaign trail. | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
As huge advances are made in robotics and artificial | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
intelligence, MPs discuss the legal and ethical issues raised | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
And we'll reveal what happened when a second-year art student | :01:04. | :01:13. | |
decided to use Jeremy Corbyn in her fine art project. | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
of the programme today, American-born playwright | :01:27. | :01:27. | |
Let's kick off with the news that councillors in North Yorkshire have | :01:28. | :01:41. | |
voted to allow fracking near the village of Kirby Misperton. | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
It's the first fracking application to be approved since 2011. | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
The decision was condemned by anti-fracking protesters, | :01:47. | :01:47. | |
who are concerned that the controversial technique | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
which extracts oil or gas from rocks by pumping liquid into them | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
at high pressure will contaminate the water supply. | :01:53. | :02:01. | |
Bonnie Greer, it is being seen by some as a bit of a watershed, this | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
approval for fracking, do you think it is the first of many more? | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
Legally it isn't, because I understand there is a mine there, | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
but once you open this particular gate it sets out a possible | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
precedent for it to happen again. Fracking in America of course is big | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
news. It has changed the economy. It has made the country less dependent | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
on foreign oil, but it is a grave and big disturbance to the earth. It | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
has caused water problems, it has caused problems in communities. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
There has been evidence of that? Absolutely and people don't like it. | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
The question of whether this will be something for the future or not | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
deserve the public debate. The fact the government has done it or made | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
it a fey to complete takes it away from communities to talk about how | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
it impacts them. The British government is in favour of fracking | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
because it says it will boost supply and the economy and therefore energy | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
security for this country, and because it is clearly a lot smaller | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
than the states, where fracking has been carried out, there would be | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
layers of regulation to make sure things like the water table not | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
being contaminated, that there wouldn't be tremors caused by | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
fracking, although of course that was the reason that an application | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
before was put on hold. What do you say to that? If it was highly | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
regulated, could it work safely? We need to stop comparing this country | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
to the United States, two different places. We need a better survey of | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
local terrain. I haven't seen anything like that. To make a | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
generalisation is really to take that template from America and apply | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
it to the UK, and I think in general that is always a bad idea. We do | :04:06. | :04:15. | |
need to have more investigation. I support the people of North | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
Yorkshire and hopefully this doesn't set a precedent. | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
This Thursday the Psychoactive Substances Act comes into force, | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
which will see a ban on so called legal highs. | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
The Home Office has published a handy guide for retailers on how | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
to deal with the new law, so our question for today is, | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
what might the guide prevent shopkeepers from selling | :04:34. | :04:34. | |
Is it whipped cream, full roasted coffee beans, herbal tea or chilli | :04:35. | :04:50. | |
powder. It is not obvious. At the end of the show, Bonnie | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
will give us the correct answer. David Cameron and Nigel Farage have | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
been out on the referendum campaign trail this morning with | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
the Prime Minister, warning that voting to leave the EU will lead | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
to a rise in the cost of summer holidays, and the Ukip leader | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
labelling the PM "Dishonest Dave" and accused him | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
of "talking rubbish". Here's David Cameron, speaking | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
to EasyJet employees in Luton. If we were to leave and the pound | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
were to fall, which is what most people expect and what the Treasury | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
forecasts, that would put up the cost of a typical holiday | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
for a family of four to a European It could, as Carolyn has said, | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
put up, actually, the cost of air travel because if you're out | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
of the single market, which is what those who want us | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
to leave think, then you would face all sorts of bureaucracy | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
and restrictions that Let's talk now to Norman | :05:41. | :05:42. | |
Smith, who is in Luton. You are in front of one of those | :05:43. | :05:57. | |
easy jet aeroplanes, although not jetting off for a little while. We | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
have now got the price of a holiday that will go up if Britain leaves | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
the EU, have we reached the peak, do you think, of rhetoric on doom and | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
gloom on both sides of what will happen if we stay or leave? I think | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
what we get today is a tilt in the David Cameron campaign. Yesterday | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
was a high watermark of Donna Rand Blitzen, sort of the dire warnings | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
of disaster if we leave. Now I think the picture is more consumer land. | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
David Cameron wants to bring it down to everyday costs to ordinary | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
people's lives. Yesterday we had the deficit will go up to 39 billion, | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
inflation will go up, we had a big economic numbers, which is fine and | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
dandy. The Treasury have reduced their report with lots of equations, | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
but in terms of getting traction with ordinary folk, it is easier to | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
get your head round the fact that your holiday will cost 230 quid | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
more. I think that is what increasingly you will see in this | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
campaign. He will try to draw it back to those everyday costs. I | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
think what we will see more of is trying to get nonpolitical people | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
making the argument, standing by him. Today we have the boss of | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
EasyJet saying really being in Europe makes our life a lot easier | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
in terms of costs and I think we will see more of that. Third party | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
figures being brought in to make the argument so it is not just the Dave | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
and George show, which gets you so far, but if you really want to get | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
traction it is better to go with third party figures. The figures you | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
mentioned were contested by the other side. This idea of third party | :07:49. | :07:58. | |
figures, I assume it will be restricting what we hear from | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
government figures so it will lend itself to a change in the campaign. | :08:03. | :08:10. | |
Yes, I wonder if even if they were allowed to produce another | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
terrifying report whether it would actually have that much impact | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
because I have this suspicion that we have may be reached doom fatigue. | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
We are kind of in the land of come off it, it cannot be that bad | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
surely. We have batted off warnings that we could face the third World | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
War, your wages will go down by ?800, half of you will be out of | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
work. We are so battered by this that we have reached the outer | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
limits of that and there's not much more mileage in carrying on down | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
that road. Even though you cannot now do that, I wonder if David | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
Cameron would want to continue doing that. Interestingly, David Cameron | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
was asked about that campaign and the negative nature of it, being | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
criticised by even allies like Nicola Sturgeon, but he doesn't | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
believe it is negative. He says he is just presenting the arguments in | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
a clear and frank way, but for many on the receiving end it probably | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
feels like that. Maybe they have been told it is working, by the | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
pollsters. As I mentioned earlier, | :09:22. | :09:23. | |
Nigel Farage is also out Here he is, speaking | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
from his campaign bus in Dudley. I think one of the reasons that | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
maybe the Remain campaign has taken a bit of a lead is not enough people | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
on the Leave side are making It's all well and good to say | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
we are going to have more money for the National Health Service, | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
but actually this referendum Our politicians have given away | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
control of our country. They have given away | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
control of our borders. And our message has got to be clear, | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
it's got to be assertive. We believe in Britain, | :09:51. | :10:01. | |
we believe in this country, we believe in its people, | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
and we want our country back. A little earlier I spoke to our | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
correspondent Eleanor Garnier. I asked her how the campaign was | :10:10. | :10:22. | |
going for Nigel Farage from where she was standing. This is a very | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
glamorous bus, it is the first time I have been on it, there are benches | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
and chairs. You can sit in the sunshine. When Nigel Farage arrived | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
here in Dudley, he came with blaring music and he gave a big rousing | :10:42. | :10:49. | |
speech from the top of the bus. I am going to pop down and I will meet | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
you outside in a few seconds. There were loads of people waiting for | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
Nigel Farage. Posters and things like that. There was a huge crowd | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
waiting for him and I would say this campaign has been completely | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
different from the one we saw from David Cameron which was controlled. | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
Nigel Farage says anything goes, if you want to talk to him, to get that | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
photo, get the selfie, get your poster signed. It does feel | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
different because we had a barrage of graphs and economists from the | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
Remain side but this has a different feel. Do you think it is about | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
personality politics on the Leave side? I asked Nigel Farage about | :11:37. | :11:45. | |
that, I said do you worry about not having big names supporting your | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
side? He said it is about getting out and meeting people. He said he | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
doesn't care who from the establishment backs of the other | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
side. He said he actually wanted that, he wanted people in the big | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
international companies to back the Remain side so it can be a | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
competition between people on the ground, the real people, and the | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
political establishment. How has the response been to that? The people | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
there are those already convinced of the arguments put forward by Nigel | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
Farage, but what about others? Before he turned up I asked a few | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
people if they had decided how they will vote, and a few were really | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
strongly committed to voting to leave the EU. They came out with | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
their answer quickly, but there were also people who hadn't decided how | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
they would vote, and there were some who said they would vote to stay in | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
the EU. You can imagine that all the people around me now have been | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
really prone leaving the EU, and on that issue of the holiday, whether | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
prices for holidays for a family of four would go up by hundreds of | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
pounds as David Cameron was saying, Nigel Farage slammed that and said | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
it is simply not true. He said the person to blame was David Cameron | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
for not reducing fees for airlines travelling around the world. He said | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
it is a load of rubbish what David Cameron has been saying this | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
morning. He has gone to the butchers around the corner, he has been to | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
the market here too, meeting people and shaking hands. Guessing the | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
flesh, I think we call it in this industry. I will let you go and take | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
your place on the bus. Thank you. We've been joined by the cabinet | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
minister and Leave supporter Theresa Villiers, and by the Remain | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
supporter and member of the Labour Let's start with this holidays will | :13:38. | :13:48. | |
become more expensive, another day of scaremongering and exaggeration | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
by the Remain side. I don't think it is exaggeration, it is pointing out | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
the implications of a leave vote. Mark Carney have said things, and he | :14:01. | :14:12. | |
has taken that... Is it the back of a fag paper? There doesn't see many | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
firm evidence. Mark Carney from the Bank of England was saying the | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
consequence of leaving would be the pressure on the pound, the price of | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
the pound would fall and that would have a huge impact on people's | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
holidays. Foreign holidays become more expensive, and that is what the | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
Prime Minister was out. There was an admission on someone on your side | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
that there could be that short-term shock and that sort of consequence. | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
We have even heard from Carolyn McCall from EasyJet who says she | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
believes prices of holidays and flights will go up, and this could | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
make a difference to people when they think about their summer | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
holiday. I think I can provide reassurance because the last time | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
the Treasury predicted an economic shock was when we were in the ERM, | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
predicting disaster, and interest rates being hyped. What happened | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
when we left the ERM, inflation came down, the economy had a huge boost | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
and it was followed by nearly 15 years of economic growth. Before | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
that happened, there was a huge hike in interest rates, but yesterday | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Gerard Lyons, one of the Economist on your side, admits there is likely | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
to be that uncertainty and that could cause more expensive holidays | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
but also other consumerist issues and people will say it is not worth | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
taking the risk. It's important to recognise that | :15:41. | :15:49. | |
whatever way the vote goes there are risks involved, but it is clear to | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
me that the greater risks come with staying in the European Union. The | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
European Union is inevitably going to ask for more power and money | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
every year if we stay in. There is an in-built majority by the Eurozone | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
that can out voters on everything. The EU is enlarging. In terms of the | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
cost of living, it's clear that significant open-door migration from | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Europe does depress wages but particularly for people in lower | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
skilled jobs, and that will intensify when it includes countries | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
like Turkey. One of those issues, on depressing wages, there is evidence | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
at the lower end of the scale that wages have been kept down. They had | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
not risen for a very long time. We know that the UK is an attractive | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
place for people to come and people have come here in large numbers, and | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
by and large, as we've seen from independent analysis, they | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
contribute to the local economy. They contribute, but do you accept | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
wages have been suppressed as a result in part from migrants coming | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
to the country and taking jobs at the low end of the scale and, as a | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
result, the wages came down? They have often come in to do jobs where | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
there are vacancies for them and they have contributed to them. There | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
have been labour shortages and if you look at agriculture and in care | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
homes, hospitals, the contribution of many of those migrants coming | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
here to this country to work, they have contributed massively to local | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
services and to the public exchange with the taxes they pay. Which | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
arguments are going to play most effectively with the public? Will it | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
be a consumerist argument about the money in their pocket, or will it be | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
more about power and sovereignty? First of all, I'm for Remain, but on | :17:35. | :17:43. | |
behalf of Leave, I think they have missed a trick. I think they have | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
played on the playing field of Remain, where they cannot win. | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
Remain has a lot of logic on its side. You have all of these big | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
financiers, and world heads, saying don't do it. The argument that they | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
bring out is logical. Leave's argument is about something much | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
deeper. It is about a feeling of liberty, and I can say this is | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
somebody American-born, and I'm rather giving this away, but I think | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
Leave hasn't done that. All of the Leave people I know, when you talk | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
to them in private, they are coming from a very emotional and deep place | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
but you don't get that in the campaign. In other words you get a | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
campaign where Remain is setting out something very logical and it will | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
make sense to people, against what a lot of Leave people feel. What do | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
you say to that? Conversely, you could say Boris Johnson and Nigel | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
Farage are out there is big personalities with a lot of passion, | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
but has it been lacking in the campaign generally? There is | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
certainly passion in the campaign. Bonnie is right to the extent to | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
which it has got over. The heart is, do we want to be an independent | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
sovereign nation again? We did manage to run our own affairs well | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
enough. Just take for example, the Jeremy Paxman programme, he said at | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
the end of it after a very balanced programme he said British national | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
sovereignty has been lost. The question for us is, has it been | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
worth it? There is no question the European Union is a political | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
project and we no longer have the power to make our own rules. We | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
should take back control of making our own laws and our own immigration | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
policies. The problem is this. If you make a campaign that says take | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
control you have to convince people that they don't have control, and | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
that is a very nebulous thing. But if you talk to people about not | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
being able to take a holiday or your grandchildren, and the Daily | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
Telegraph showed that people over 65 are going into Remain, and it's | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
because a lot of them think they do not want to deprive their grandchild | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
of the possibility of working in Berlin. You have to counter that | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
kind of argument. I know that you can, but the campaign doesn't give | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
that sense. What about on the Remain side, the rhetoric and this endless | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
barrage of figures, and even Nicola Sturgeon who is in favour of Remain | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
saying it is enough. Reading between the lines, it is too negative. It's | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
important to lay out the risks and consequences and the consumerist | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
argument and it is important, but alongside that I've heard the Prime | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
Minister and leader of the Labour Party and many other figures talk | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
about the fact that we are a proud, independent nation and I disagree | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
totally with Therese on this. We are a proud, independent nation, and for | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
many of us, and I hope for a majority, we see the future as being | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
a proud, independent Pajot a country working with others to solve common | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
problems and to what the common good and I think that's the difference in | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
the view between us and we'll hear more of that vision of the foreword | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
look -- towards the common good. Let's look at the polls, because | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
Bonnie Greer raised the Telegraph poll and it shows that Remain has a | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
20 point lead. We take them with a pinch of salt but it sounds like | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
you're struggling. We've always been the underdog and its inevitable the | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
establishment would line up against us. Certainly they have been talking | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
the country down, no doubt about it. I think we should go back to what | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
the Prime Minister said just a few months ago. He said I'm not one of | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
these people who believes that the UK cannot be a success outside of | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
the European Union. We can be a success and we will be a success. Do | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
you feel betrayed by the Prime Minister? Did he make up his mind | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
long before he officially announced he would campaign to remain? He has | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
his view on this. It's difficult for me to be on the other side of a | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
debate like this from a Prime Minister, but when it's a question | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
of whether we become an independent democracy again, I felt I had to be | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
on the side and I owed it to future generations to take back control and | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
making our own laws and in our own Parliament. But that doesn't come | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
through. That's my point. What a lot of people see is an anti-immigrant | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
message, some of it quite crude. Although that plays well in some | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
places. But some other places it doesn't play very well. I don't | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
think that's what it's about but that is what comes across. In the | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
next week, Leave will shift to do something else. I think the rebuttal | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
of that is nonsense, that doesn't make sense, see what they were | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
before 20 years ago, that isn't an answer to the economic argument and | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
the economic case. When you have the head of the Bank of England and the | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
IMF and most world leaders saying please don't do this, Leave has to | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
come up with something that either visceral or come up with figures. It | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
can't just say, that doesn't make any sense, we don't buy it. We still | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
have plenty of time view to come up with that. On turnout, just briefly, | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
one of the advantages I suggest for the Leave campaign is that they will | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
get their people out. The turnout will be good on the Leave side. The | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
Remain side, less certain. One of the things associated with that is | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
that younger people are generally more enthusiastic for the EU are | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
less likely to vote. You will see in the campaign going on that it will | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
focus on turnout. Certainly the Labour Party across the country is | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
now mobilising even more than it has been to try and make sure that we | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
turnout our vote, to make sure we maximise the turnout. But the Labour | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
Party is mobilised and working hard to get the vote out. Stay with us, | :23:55. | :23:56. | |
both of you. Now, if you're a British citizen | :23:57. | :23:57. | |
contemplating free movement across the European Union, | :23:58. | :23:59. | |
your first thought But what about the one part | :24:00. | :24:01. | |
of the UK where you can walk across the border | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
into a foreign country? Northern Ireland's still-fragile | :24:08. | :24:09. | |
political settlement and concerns about the implications | :24:10. | :24:10. | |
of a vote to leave the EU for North-South co-operation | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
on the island have lent an extra dimension to the referendum | :24:14. | :24:15. | |
campaign there. We sent our Ellie along the Irish | :24:16. | :24:17. | |
border to find out more. After a troubled history, a border | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
that's practically invisible now. This is it, the frontier | :24:25. | :24:37. | |
between the Republic of Ireland If a referendum resulted in a vote | :24:38. | :24:39. | |
to leave, this could become part of the only land border | :24:40. | :24:47. | |
between the UK and the EU. Those who want to leave the EU say | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
a common travel agreement between Northern Ireland | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
and the Irish Republic means that would change little, | :25:00. | :25:01. | |
but others insist this border could once again harden | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
after 23rd June. Migration is going to be | :25:10. | :25:11. | |
a huge issue, in terms It's also raised a really | :25:12. | :25:13. | |
interesting one for Northern Ireland because we get people talking | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
about those that may If the UK were to leave, | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
there'd be no possible change between the border | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
between the Republic of Ireland People talk about the idea | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
of the need to control borders to actually stop | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
migration, migrants flowing. Well over 23,000 people cross | :25:31. | :25:32. | |
the border from either side to get Many are going to or setting off | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
from the city of Newry, which sits four miles from | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
the border of the Irish Republic. You can use both pounds | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
and euros here. But some businesses say that cosy | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
working relationship The big liberating factor for us has | :25:48. | :25:49. | |
been freedom of movement of goods and people, | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
and our concern is the reinstitution And while some have said this | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
would be electronic, it still will involve paperwork | :25:59. | :26:12. | |
at some point, and that's Newry lies in the south | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
of County Armagh, an area known during the Troubles as bandit | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
country for its paramilitary There's concern now that a physical | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
border would not only damage the local economy, | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
but serve, at the very least, as an uncomfortable reminder | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
of the area's divided past. This vote is potentially more | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
important for us than the vote The importance to the peace process | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
of British and Irish EU What's not is the fact | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
that the EU has pumped more than 1.5 billion euros | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
into cross-community reconciliation. The Peace Bridge in Londonderry | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
just one such project. But the largest political parties | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
on each side of the community divide have very different views | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
on what leaving would mean. There would be an adverse impact | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
for north-south relations. We would see a loss to the growing | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
levels of North-South economic It would result in a hardening | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
of partition of that, If the north of Ireland votes | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
to remain in the EU and sections of English popular opinion vote | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
to come out, then we, like the Scots, should be | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
given an opportunity This nonsense that somehow | :27:26. | :27:27. | |
the world is going to end, there will be no trade, | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
no money for farming, there will be border controls | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
with no doubt machine-gun posts at the border and all of that | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
nonsense, is scaremongering and it Remember, a lot of these people said | :27:43. | :27:44. | |
exactly the same thing when we were told we wouldn't be | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
part of the euro. We were told this would be | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
disastrous for trade and for co-operation | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic, | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
and for trade between the Irish Republic and the rest | :28:00. | :28:00. | |
of the United Kingdom. Here at Carlingford Lough, | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
the town of Warrenpoint in Northern Ireland is separated | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
from Carlingford in the Republic No one knows what the political | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
landscape would look like if we vote to leave the EU, | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
but for at least one part of the UK, the consequences could be felt | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
a lot closer to home. And the Northern Ireland Secretary | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
Theresa Villiers and the shadow Northern Ireland Secretary Vernon | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
Coaker are still with me. If the UK votes to leave the EU, it | :28:30. | :28:41. | |
is one land border with the EU, and that would be with the Republic of | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
Ireland. Can you guarantee nothing would change along the border when | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
it comes to controls and checks and freedom of travel? I can guarantee | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
we still have an open border and it would be as free for goods and | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
people as it is now. The Common travel area, which enables Irish | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
citizens and UK citizens to pass freely... Is that in legislation? | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
Yes, it is. It survived the Civil War and war and it survived 30 years | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
of the troubles. And it will survive a vote in Brexit and to suggest it | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
wouldn't is scaremongering. So she is saying it would stay the same | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
completely? It existed when Ireland and the UK were not members of the | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
EU, and it existed while they were, but what it has never been, the | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
Common travel area, is when Britain and Ireland on different | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
arrangements. You would have Ireland in the EU and the whole of the U -- | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
UK not in the EU. Why couldn't you still have the freedom of movement? | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
Let's say that freedom of movement becomes not just between Ireland and | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
the UK, a big queen -- becomes between the whole of the EU and the | :29:52. | :29:59. | |
UK. So people from Italy, Spain, Poland, wherever, Romania, they fly | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
into Dublin, and then they just walk straight across the border and they | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
have entry into the rest of the UK. Part of the Leave campaign is we do | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
not want freedom of movement of people. There is an illogicality to | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
it that raises questions about what happens. What do you say to that | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
point? We would be relying on Irish customs and immigration to monitor | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
migrants from the EU, and you want to control migration, and they would | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
have the potential to enter the UK undetected, if you say the borders | :30:30. | :30:30. | |
are open. They would certainly be risks to be | :30:31. | :30:39. | |
managed but we already face them now. Where do we face them now at | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
the moment because on the French side we have officials working on | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
their side and our own immigration officials so the risks would be | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
high, wouldn't they? Effectively our external border is also the Republic | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
of Ireland's border so we already depend on the authorities in the | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
Republic of Ireland to play part of the role in policing our borders. I | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
think the idea of thousands of French, German EU citizens wanting | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
to come to the UK across the Irish border is fanciful. The reason why | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
there are significant population movements at the moment is because | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
of free movement rules. If we were to amend them, we wouldn't see the | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
mass population flows we do now. And that would be logical if you were | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
voting to leave, you would take the rules to that point which you could | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
stop people coming across in the way you envisage. All I'm saying is the | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
border becomes not a border within the EU, it becomes a border... I | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
understand. Clearly that will have to be managed. Theresa has said | :31:52. | :32:01. | |
there has to be risks that will be managed. Isn't it a bigger risk to | :32:02. | :32:11. | |
have Turkey joining the EU? It will have a significant impact. The | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
government is committed to looking at the issue and re-energising the | :32:18. | :32:26. | |
talks of Turkish accession. It is always an issue that is raised. | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
Turkey will not join the EU within the foreseeable future. It is a red | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
herring you throw on the table. It is our responsibility think not just | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
about the EU today but what it will be like in ten years, 20 years. We | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
have the responsibility to think to the long-term. Just because it might | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
not happen for a few years, it doesn't mean it is not a problem. | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
This is the one chance people in the UK have is to leave the EU. | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
Otherwise we are stuck in this organisation probably for decades to | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
come and we will face those risks when Turkey joins. | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
Does Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party have a problem with Englishness? | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
It's a question posed by former Shadow Cabinet minister | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
Tristram Hunt in a new collection of essays penned by Labour MPs | :33:13. | :33:14. | |
and less successful candidates from the last General Election | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
and some of the comments might come as a shock to its | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
The debate about Labour and Englishness was partly inspired | :33:21. | :33:34. | |
by this photo, tweeted by the now Shadow Defence | :33:35. | :33:44. | |
by this photo, tweeted by the now Shadow Defence Secretary Emily | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
Thornberry during the Rochester by-election, which was | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
And Tristram Hunt has joined us in the studio. Labour is in much bigger | :33:50. | :34:40. | |
trouble electorally in Wales and Scotland. Yes, it is almost as if we | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
had three different general election is happening on the same day in | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
England, Scotland and Wales, and we face a big, historic challenge in | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
Scotland, but what we are also seeing, and this was the nature of | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
the collection of essays I brought together with fears over a cultural | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
disconnect with Englishness. The reason this is important is because | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
more people are identifying themselves as English than British, | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
and if we don't feel we are on the same side as them in terms of their | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
identity and values, the Labour Party will not be voted for. You say | :35:17. | :35:27. | |
nursing this is essential, what does it mean? It means pride in English | :35:28. | :35:36. | |
history, it is about making sure we have a big, bold devolution package. | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
We have this mismatch in power, many people in England feel, between the | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
devolution settlement in Scotland and Wales, and the Labour Party in | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
particular is a much more British party isn't often seen enough as on | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
the side of those who have very strong feelings about their Ingush | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
identity. Is he right, in terms of the diagnosis of the problem for the | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
Labour Party and do you back this idea? As someone who is married to | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
an Englishman and has lived here half my life, I understand what you | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
mean and I can maybe talk about what Englishness is, but what we have to | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
be careful about is this concept of England becomes changed in every | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
generation. It is in fact on some levels invented. The feeling of | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
Englishness in some ways, and I'm just saying this as someone watching | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
it and living with an Englishman, becomes a reaction as opposed to a | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
fact. If the Labour Party... And I take your point, if the Labour Party | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
is going to appeal to England it has to define what England is. The | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
notion of the flag of St George has not been a positive symbol of | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
England for the last 30 years. Was that an mistake by Emily Thornberry, | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
seeming to mark what is seen as the representative of England? She used | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
sub textual feeling about that flag. She made a grave mistake and it was | :37:17. | :37:24. | |
an insult as well, but the Labour Party can talk about what England | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
is. Suzy stride says one person opened the door and said, I am a | :37:31. | :37:40. | |
white, working-class heterosexual English person on benefit, the | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
Labour Party is not for people like me. Have they given up on these | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
people in favour of something else? It is devastating if people think | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
that. If our reputation is such that mainstream white English voters feel | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
that the Labour Party isn't for them, then building the kind of | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
progressive coalition that we want to build is immediately crippled. | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
Bonnie is right about this question of English identity. There is an | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
interesting historical debate about the nature of Englishness, and | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
whether there was a codified sense of Englishness more than British | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
nurse. As we see Britishness ebbing, does this Englishness ideal come | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
back? For the man in Harlow, if he feels the Labour Party is not on the | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
side of English people, and this is what was so problematic about the | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
2015 election, because we have this type team between Nicola Sturgeon | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
and David Cameron, Nicola Sturgeon saying the Labour Party isn't on the | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
side of the Scottish and David Cameron saying it isn't on the side | :38:51. | :38:59. | |
of the English. It is not about England, it is about the definition | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
of England. England is everyone who is English so therefore the Labour | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
Party has to embrace this multifarious idea of England as | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
opposed to it being... Right, and there was this lovely new book on | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
Islamist culture within England in the 16th century, and how these | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
ideas within England develop. If we are not on the pitch, Bonnie, if we | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
are not negotiating and contesting and having pride in this, then you | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
end up with the politics we have seen in Austria. You end up with far | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
right politics, you don't have a progressive account of battery and | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
England, and to show that we love England then the right taker. Do you | :39:43. | :39:53. | |
think there is a two tea Labour Party, the London elite and the rest | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
of the country? I think this trend has been going. The book was about | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
the 2015 election but in local elections we saw Labour doing well | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
in London, Sadiq Khan brilliant, doing well in Norwich and Bristol, | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
but in Nuneaton, Tamworth, Middle England, the marginal seats, in | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
communities who are feeling under pressure by pressure and | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
globalisation and socioeconomic change... Labour did gain some seats | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
in England in those local elections we just had. We lost 20. I take your | :40:28. | :40:35. | |
point, but it did gain some seat. Normally opposition seats gained | :40:36. | :40:47. | |
130. We gained in areas where there is a more confident, Metropolitan | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
identity and we are under pressure in areas where white working-class | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
voters, in areas like Portsmouth and Southampton, feel that the Labour | :40:57. | :40:58. | |
Party is not speaking to their values. Does Jeremy Corbyn get this? | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
I don't know if Jeremy Corbyn get this. Do you not up to him about it? | :41:06. | :41:15. | |
I have sent the book to him. One theory is that Jeremy Corbyn's | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
approach to the defence industry doubles down on this idea of | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
Englishness and the white working class communities. We were hurt in | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
Portsmouth to the Labour Party's approach to these vital industries. | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
But Labour must not react to an idea of England. England is a big idea, | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
and I think Labour should embrace the big idea of England which is | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
multicultural. Look at Shakespeare. That tells you what London was in | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
the 16th century. And the Tempest is a story as much about the West | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
Indies and the Caribbean as it is about England. England is a big | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
idea. Thank you very much. Our famous love of dogs seems | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
to be having unintended Footage from the BBC's Panorama | :42:04. | :42:05. | |
programme shows cages in Ireland filled with hundreds | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
of sickly dogs, ready to be As the law stands, if someone owns | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
a council pet shop licence they're OK to source | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
dogs from elsewhere. Campaigners say enough | :42:17. | :42:17. | |
is enough and they want Today, celebrities, | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
MPs and charities are gathering outside the Houses | :42:21. | :42:22. | |
of Parliament calling for the Government to ban the sale | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
of puppies in pet shops I am with the vet Mark Abraham, and | :42:26. | :42:39. | |
Jody Marshall who needs no introduction, but you owned six | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
dogs. What is your reaction to this trade, is it visceral cruelty? | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
Definitely cruel in so many ways. Not only are the dogs very sick, | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
unhealthy and mistreated, kept in tiny boxes and used literally just | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
for breeding over and over again, but it is cruel on the owner because | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
when you go to buy a puppy from a puppy farm, you will end up spending | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
thousands on vet bills because the dog is so sick. Many people will say | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
it is cruel but it is regulated and inspected by local authorities. Many | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
of these people say I am not breaking the law. Absolutely, and | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
that is why we need the government to answer for themselves. Why is | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
this legal? Why is it allowed to happen? Mark will tell you, it is | :43:30. | :43:37. | |
absolute, just... You have asked the question for me and I will get him | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
to answer. Why is it legal? A law regulates this, are you calling for | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
it to be banned? We want the government to follow its own advice. | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
It quite clearly says on the website that puppies should be seen with | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
their mother. Why are they then allowing them to be sold without | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
their mother. The public need to choose responsibly. How can they? | :44:07. | :44:21. | |
Lucy is getting in on the action. A lot of this is emotional. You are | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
saying is a vet you know she was damaged. You don't need to be a vet | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
to see how damaged she was. Lucy was a rescue Cavalier, battery farmed. | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
Puppies were sold by licensed dealers... She is over breeding? She | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
has so many health issues. Luckily she has been rehabilitated, she is | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
still scared, still has separation anxiety, but the whole puppy farm | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
industry relies on the third-party trade and a lack of transparency. | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
Very quickly, do you think this has even been on the government's radar? | :44:58. | :45:06. | |
In 2014 we had a debate in the main chamber for the banning on the sale | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
of puppies without their mothers, eliminate third-party sales. It was | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
a backbench victory, but the government front bench said no, | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
let's keep things as they are. It is not OK, we need to change things | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
immediately so people can either buy directly from the breeder or | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
preferably go to a rescue centre. Are you getting a big response about | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
this? Everyone feels the same. If we all suddenly started | :45:36. | :45:56. | |
eating dog meat in this country there would be uproar. Everyone | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
would go crazy. What is happening with these dogs in puppy farms is | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
probably worse because they are being kept alive to have a horrible | :46:03. | :46:03. | |
life. Yes, I think the dog wanted to be | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
elsewhere. Driverless cars, spaceports - | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
last week's Queen's Speech had all the makings | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
of a science fiction novel. But this seemed to be a snapshot | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
of Britain's future in modern technology and artificial | :46:16. | :46:17. | |
intelligence, and one that MPs So much so the Commons Science | :46:18. | :46:19. | |
Technology committee is now conducting an inquiry into the UK | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
robotics industry to consider the social, legal and ethical issues | :46:25. | :46:26. | |
raised by developments in the field. Let's have a look at they kind | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
of thing they're talking about. What you can see here is footage | :46:33. | :46:43. | |
from Boston Dynamics in the States. It's a robotics firm | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
owned by Google. It created a humanoid | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
that is able operate outdoors It uses sensors to avoid obstacles, | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
assess the terrain, help with navigation | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
and manipulate objects. It can also withstand bullying | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
and still achieve its task. With me now is Dr Rob Buckingham, | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
director of RACE - which stands for Remote Applications | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
in Challenging Environments - set up He's giving evidence | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
to the Select Committee Welcome to the Daily Politics. It | :47:18. | :47:30. | |
looks exciting, but there are ethical issues here at the core. | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
Yes, of course. This is something which is going to hit us over the | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
next ten, 2050 years. Computers are getting more and more powerful and | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
robotics is just a part of the trend. We have to be really aware of | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
these issues and give it the attention it deserves. What does it | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
mean? Should we be scared? No, I don't think we should be scared. | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
When we wrote the strategy a couple of years ago we said that these are | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
just the next generation of smart tools, tools that help people, that | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
create jobs, create wealth, solve problems and we shouldn't really be | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
focusing too much on the existential stuff. It is great science-fiction. | :48:15. | :48:21. | |
But is it just science-fiction? You talk about artificial intelligence | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
and you look at the robot, and you think what about if they start to be | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
able to play computer games and they don't need direction from humans. | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
Eventually, in a hundred years, they can talk to each other, but I love | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
the idea of robots. I love them, I think they are fantastic and I think | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
what they will do is free up human beings from drudgery. They will also | :48:46. | :48:57. | |
allow for every human displaced by a robot there should be a programme by | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
which every human is retrained for a job of the future. In fact, the | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
robot can teach the human that job. That is what is so exciting about | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
this. We can learn from robots a lot about our bodies, our minds. They | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
will go in and take care of jobs we can't do, clearing mines. Except the | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
key in your little speech there about robots was actually about the | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
fact that people need to be retrained, and would people be | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
retrained? If people are worried their jobs are being taken and there | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
isn't anything there to do customer that is a constant process. Society | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
does not stand still. So absolutely Ahki message to the politicians and | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
educators is, get with it. -- a key message. Get to grips with science, | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
technology, engineering and maths. We have to have those skills if we | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
are going to be an economy that makes money, generate jobs, all that | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
stuff, we have to be in that area. Robotics is a key part of that. Do | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
you agree with Bonnie that it will be 150 years? It doesn't matter | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
about the time. It will happen, and then the key thing is, what we do | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
now? How do we prepare for that in a calm, calculator, open, transparent | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
way? What the government be doing instead of opening free schools and | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
academies is that it needs to set up programmes in schools in which | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
people are taught STEM. It is the most important thing a young person | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
can do. Women need to get more involved in STEM. Forget about | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
robots, these things will happen. We need to get smarter. Instead of | :50:37. | :50:38. | |
rushing around trying to control people we need to get a unified | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
school system that teaches people STEM. It has to come from the top. | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
When do you think this will happen? A change is visual for everybody. | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
Autonomous people is the most visual thing. Driverless cars for example. | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
It is in our space. The Internet we don't think of being in our space, | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
it is in the digital space, somewhere else. Whereas robotics is | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
physical and comes into our space, our home, our heart -- driveways. | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
That is why it is important to the UK. We are leading in this area. Is | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
the UK leading? We are doing stuff here that is not being done | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
elsewhere. And it's a valuable export commodity. If we can take the | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
lead, get our schools on board and stop all silliness, getting to STEM. | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
We have the first language in the world and we could be the export | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
leaders in this. The pictures we were showing their, the robot being | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
kicked over, is that the sort of thing you are developing? Is it a | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
publicity stunt? It is an awesome video. And it just raises huge | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
questions. It makes you smile. Why is that? We are human beings and | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
when we start thinking about humanity and humanoids we think, | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
wow, it's exciting. Immediately we think, is that robot in pain? I | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
would put money on the fact that someone cared in some estate is | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
sitting there, seen that, thinking I know what to do here. That kid needs | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
to be released into a school system that allows him or her to get into | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
STEM and that is the world of the future. How radical does the | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
education system need to change in order to make way for this? I'll | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
give you a very specific example. We just got given ?50 million to set up | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
an apprentice training school, which is really good. A apprentices. We | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
want to take all of those apprentices through my centre -- all | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
apprentices. That is a way to embed that stuff into training. From | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
16-year-olds all the way through, those guys and girls going through | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
that process are hands-on, playing with software and electronics. They | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
should be receptive to it. They love it. Culture and art in there and you | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
have a perfect human being. You should go and work for him, Bonnie. | :53:16. | :53:16. | |
You would be welcome. Thanks. Jeremy Corbyn has given | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
lots of talks at universities and other venues around the country | :53:21. | :53:22. | |
since becoming the Leader They've all been pretty exciting, | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
like this one, for example, Give a big East Midlands welcome | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
to the leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn at De Montfort | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
University in Leicester last year. Now, students and Labour activists | :53:32. | :54:03. | |
at Lancaster University thought they were in for a similar event | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
a talk by Jeremy Corbyn But, when they got there, | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
they were confronted not by the Leader of the Opposition | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
but by a cardboard box. It was all part of an undergraduate | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
fine art project. And the student behind it, | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
Lucie Carter, is here to tell us more and the Culture | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
Minister, Ed Vaizey. First of all, what we doing? I've | :54:26. | :54:39. | |
been developing my work for a while in the studio and this is the final | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
budget that I came up with. Can we have a look at it? There it is. And | :54:46. | :54:53. | |
the idea behind it was what exactly? It's a combination of two series | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
that I have looked at. One of them is looking at the play element in | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
culture, it's a book and I can't remember the name of the author. And | :55:06. | :55:12. | |
it's combination of object orientated ontology as well. What is | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
object-oriented ontology? Try and think of the simplest way. Please | :55:19. | :55:27. | |
do. What is it there? It is not only about the piece itself, it is about | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
you. So those who and the call they did the piece, and that was the call | :55:34. | :55:43. | |
and I think it's very exciting. Way surprised it took off, and 500 | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
people were due to attend, so were you surprised by the response? | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
Absolutely. I didn't think it would be as big as it became, so I was | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
shocked. That you got into trouble? Not necessarily. We handled things | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
internally in the union. What about the local MP? How did she respond? | :56:07. | :56:13. | |
She called me on the day I made the event and she asked me to delete the | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
event which I thought, fair enough. So I did. Did you? Do you think she | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
should have done? She may have taken it as a piece of hostility towards | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
Jeremy Corbyn but you could turn it round the other way and say even a | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
box with the name Jeremy Corbyn can potentially attract 500 people to | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
come and view it. Could you attract 500 people in person? I don't think | :56:39. | :56:45. | |
I could. I don't want to in any way diminish your artwork, but this is | :56:46. | :56:55. | |
the STEM box, and we thought we would do one to you. What I want to | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
know now is what is happening to the viewing figures? -- the Ed Vaizey | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
box. The font is wrong. What should it be? That is the font. What is | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
wrong with it? The font is also the art as well. It's not a scribble | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
leafing. I think you'll find we spent a very long time this. Not | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
really. Famously Roy Hattersley was replaced with a tub of lard on have | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
I got News for you. So I think the BBC led the way for you to open the | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
pathway for this piece of art. Are you open-minded to this sort of | :57:39. | :57:46. | |
thing? This is the centenary of Dadaism and are looking at the world | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
and mocking the world in some ways, and next year will be the centenary | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
of the Fountain piece by Duchamp, and he said because it was art he | :57:58. | :58:05. | |
said it was art. It is art and it is art for all the reasons that you | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
said it is art. The people who don't get it, that is art as well. The MP | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
who decided to get on your case is part of the art piece as well. What | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
are you going to do next? I actually don't know. When you do, can you | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
come on and bring it, and bring Ed Vaizey as well. Very quickly you can | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
help Bonnie Greer with the answer to the quiz. I don't think we've got | :58:31. | :58:37. | |
time to do the quiz. I will have to say thank you to all of our guests | :58:38. | :58:39. | |
to day. Thanks to Bonnie Greer | :58:40. | :58:40. | |
and all my guests. I'll be back at 11:30 tomorrow | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
with Andrew for live coverage The One O'clock News is starting | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
over on BBC One now. | :58:48. | :58:52. |