25/05/2016 Daily Politics


25/05/2016

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Morning folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:36.:00:37.

The Remain campaign has been handed yet more ammunition for its claims

:00:38.:00:41.

that leaving the EU would harm the economy.

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This time, from on highly respected think-tank which says it could mean

:00:44.:00:47.

We'll be taking stock of all George Osborne's scary stories

:00:48.:00:53.

and asking if they're more fairytale or just grim economic reality.

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Speaking of George Osborne, he'll be standing in for David Cameron

:00:59.:01:01.

We'll have all the action live from noon.

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We've previously heard from military leaders backing Remain.

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Today, we'll talk to one of the retired senior officers

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claiming that a vote to leave will aid our defence and security.

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And, as both sides of the referendum debate reach out to young voters,

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former DJ Mike Reed will join us to discuss what's gone wrong

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All that in the next hour and a half.

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And with us for the whole of the programme today,

:01:40.:01:41.

speaking of scary things, it's the cabinet office minister Matt Hancock

:01:42.:01:45.

Gisela is supporting a Leave vote in the EU referendum

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and is well known for disagreeing with her party's position

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on some of the big issues of the day.

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Matt is supporting Remain and, well, let's just say

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he's not exactly famous for attacking his own government.

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So, if you're tuning in today hoping for a break from the EU referendum,

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then prepare to be thoroughly disappointed.

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There are plenty of stormy exchanges taking place between both sides

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on everything from Turkey joining the EU to the NHS to farming.

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But it's also been another week in which the Leave camp

:02:18.:02:20.

has been buffeted by some big economic warnings.

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This morning, the Institute for Fiscal Studies,

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a group that's usually treated with respect by most politicians,

:02:27.:02:29.

has weighed in and joined the likes of the IMF, the OECD, and the Bank

:02:30.:02:33.

of England in saying that a vote to leave would harm the economy.

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And it comes, of course, after a series of warnings

:02:38.:02:40.

from David Cameron and George Osborne.

:02:41.:02:43.

Jo is going to remind us of some of their most frightening assessments.

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Yes, with all these bleak economic forecasts around,

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you can see why critics have accused the Remain camp of relying on scary

:02:52.:02:54.

Last month, George Osborne looked far into the future and warned

:02:55.:03:01.

a vote for Brexit could leave families ?4,300 worse off by 2030.

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And this week, voters may have been spooked by his new Treasury report

:03:08.:03:12.

claiming a vote to leave would tip the UK into

:03:13.:03:14.

a year-long recession, costing, he said, 820,000 jobs.

:03:15.:03:24.

Homeowners may have felt a chill down their spine when the Chancellor

:03:25.:03:30.

said house prices could fall by up to 18%.

:03:31.:03:34.

David Cameron then raised the spectre of more expensive

:03:35.:03:37.

holidays as early as this summer, by as much as ?230.

:03:38.:03:40.

But probably the scariest of scare stories from the Prime Minister

:03:41.:03:43.

was his claim that Brexit could lead to another war in Europe.

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The Remain camp reject claims they're relying on fear,

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and accuse Leave campaigners of preferring conspiracy theories.

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Let's see how the story ends in just under a month.

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So, those are the economic warnings coming from Numbers 10 and 11.

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And, this morning, they've been able to add to their arsenal the verdict

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on Brexit of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which said

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a vote to leave could lead to two more years of austerity.

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In 2019 as it says it does, that would require another ?5 billion of

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public spenting cuts, 5 billion pud of security cuts and tax increases.

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Most likely, what the Government will decide to do is let's have

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another year or two of austerity. This is just adding a year or two to

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the decade long us astery. Something we can cope with but another year of

:04:43.:04:50.

spending cuts to come It came on the Treasury short-term predictions of

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what would happen if we leave. It said if we left the EU we would fall

:04:54.:04:58.

into recession. How deep does it say that recession would be? It says

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there will be a recession, as in more than two quarters of negative

:05:05.:05:08.

economic growth. How bad would it be? It would be bad for people who

:05:09.:05:15.

lost their jobs. We lost 7% of our GDP after the 2008 financial crash.

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How much is the report predicting this time? The report predicts the

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recession would be four quarters long. And that growth would go

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negative. By how much? Well, there's numbers for each of the four

:05:32.:05:37.

quarters. How much are they? Between 0% and minus 1%. No, it's not

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actually. It is actually. The central forecast is that four the

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period you predict a recession, the loss of GDP is.1% per quarter. I'll

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repeat that again. 0.1%. And what about... 0.1% negative involves

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hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs. People losing

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their livelihoods. The key is this, it's not just the Treasury. The Bank

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of England said there could be a technical recession. You say

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hundreds of thousands of jobs. We only lost several hundred,000 jobs

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when we lost 7% of our GDP after 2008. So, why would a 0.1%, I say

:06:21.:06:29.

again, 0.1%, fall in GDP in any one quarter mean the loss of hundreds of

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thousands of jobs? Because that's what the Treasury forecast says. I

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know that. I'm asking you why. Because when the he he goes into

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recession, people lose their jobs. Not by 0.1%. Yes. Let's move on.

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This.1% fall in GDP for four quarters, but it's 0.1% each

:06:57.:07:01.

quarter, that also assumes that the Government and the Bank of England

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take no remedial action, do nothing to counter recession, correct?

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That's at assumption. No, you're wrong. What is the assumption? It

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assumes the autofiscal stabilisers will work. The Government's policy.

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But the Government will do nothing else? It is backed up by the Bank of

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England, the national institute, by all of the others. Of course, they

:07:25.:07:28.

all use roughly the same model. No, they don't have the same model. It

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has nothing to do with the questions I'm asking. Let's stick with this.

:07:34.:07:39.

On the contrary, Andrew. Can we get it established, the 0.1% fall in GDP

:07:40.:07:45.

in a quarter does assume other than the automatic stabilisers which the

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Government doesn't do anything about, that it assumes no change in

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fiscal policy or interest rate policy by the bank: Correct? If you

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allow me to answer the question which I was aeh answering before you

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inTerre uppeded last time, the Bank of England interest rates are close

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to zero. Fiscal policy is constrained by high debt levels. The

:08:09.:08:13.

automatic stabilisers are the fiscal response we, as a Government, are

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allowed to operate. This is a response. I want to come back to

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this point about jobs. You seem to be dismissing an idea of a recession

:08:21.:08:24.

because you think a recession won't have a big impact. It will have a

:08:25.:08:28.

significant impact. That's the core message. I'm simply trying to work

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out why a recession which, pie your own report's prediction, would be

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0.1% a quarter for four quarters would lead to a huge collapse in

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house prices and increase in jobs when far deeper recessions have not

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done the same. Not an increase in jobs. A loss of jobs. That's the

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damage I'm worried about. Why would the bank not cut interest rates?

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They are already at 00.5%. They are lower in Japan, the central bank,

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lower in Sweden, lower in Switzerland. Why not cut interest

:09:05.:09:09.

rates further? Why would it not increase QE. Name a recession we've

:09:10.:09:17.

ever had, even one as smalls you're predicting where there was no

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response from the Government or central bank. Neither you nor I

:09:20.:09:25.

could name a recession we chose to go into by voting for something we

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don't have to. We can. Your last Government. The European exchange

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rate mechanism. Crucially where we go in with interest rates at already

:09:38.:09:41.

record low levels. It comes back to this point, there is a big economic

:09:42.:09:45.

risk. When you put screens up like that, the big book of scary story,

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right, this is about worrying about people's livelihoods and people's

:09:53.:09:57.

jobs. It is my duty, because I fear that consequence of a Brexit vote,

:09:58.:10:03.

it's my duty to set out that what I think will happen and protect the

:10:04.:10:08.

British people from it. Everybody thinks, the very least in the

:10:09.:10:11.

short-term, there would be problems for the economy. Everybody. I ask

:10:12.:10:16.

you, if that's the case. Why, before Christmas, did the Prime Minister

:10:17.:10:19.

say it would be perfectly all right outside the EU. Why did he call this

:10:20.:10:23.

referendum if it's such a clear case. You're answering my question

:10:24.:10:28.

by asking a different question. I'm saying to you, it is a reasonable

:10:29.:10:33.

concern, the short-term. The Prime Minister may be entirely wrong.

:10:34.:10:37.

That's not what I'm asking you. It is a reasonable concern, given that

:10:38.:10:43.

every major economic authority says there will be a short-term set back

:10:44.:10:47.

to the economy. That's a concern? Let me meet that. It is a concern.

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It is really not helpful if you have a Prime Minister who spends his

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whole time talking down the markets. He's partly creating some of the

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problems which you are warning us of. What I find extraordinary, even

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the Prime Minister's best efforts to say the pound will decline, the

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pound hasn't been declining. So, what's your problem? No, what's your

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problem? The problem saying he's talking down the economy, he's not

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managing to do it. What's your problem? Back to the question I

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asked you. What are people to make when they vote on June 23rd

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wheneverry authority says broadly the same thing, different in scale,

:11:31.:11:34.

but if we vote to leave, there will, at the very least, be short-term set

:11:35.:11:40.

back to the economy? It is a concern that's been pulled together by a

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Prime Minister when even when negotiating was lining up the big

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businesses. What you will have, just as you go into the again Lal

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election, there are periods when democratic decisions, the outcome's

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not clear. You create a small period of uncertainty. Then the markets

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will recover. Let he in ask you this. Why does your side of the

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argument continue to use this figure that we, the country, send ?350

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million a week as our membership fee to the European Union when you know

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that's not true? The ONS pink book says our annual contribution to the

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EU institutions is ?19.1 billion. Why are you shaking your head?

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Because the ONS themselves said that was misleading. Today, the IFS said

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it's absurd. Do you agree with the IFS or not? Is If the ONS wishes to

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change its column... They called that statistic misleading. The IFS

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today said it is absurd. The only response to that is to attack the

:12:50.:12:55.

ONS from the Leave side. You're quite right, it appears in the

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accounts. That's an accountancy matter. You know, as well as I do,

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we don't sent that amount of money. It does not physically leave London

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and go to Brussels. You know that. What I also know... You do know it?

:13:10.:13:17.

If you want to say the ONS should represent our annual contribution

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differently... It does do that. It takes the abatement off. Let me

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finish. The abatement which is continually up-renegotiation in 2020

:13:29.:13:32.

and it is reducing... Just take a deep breath and wake a moment. It is

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?5 billion at the moment. The second is with very strict conditions how

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we spend it. Our point is you can take control. If you vote Leave

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leave, you take control over that and decide how to spend it. Sir

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Andrew dill not is the chair of the UK statistics authority. He says, I

:13:53.:13:57.

note the use of the ?350 million figure. It appears to be a gross

:13:58.:14:02.

figure which does not take into account the rebate or other flows

:14:03.:14:09.

from the UK from the EU to the UK public sector. They come to about

:14:10.:14:15.

?4.5 billion. Farming and regional subsidies. City initiatives which

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come from here and get finance from the EU. Without further

:14:19.:14:24.

explanations, I think these statements of misleading. It is the

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grows contribution. Ever since the days of Margaret Thatcher, roughly

:14:30.:14:35.

speaking for every ?2 we pay in, we get 1 back in conditions. Do you

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accept we don't send the rebate. They send it back? The proper name

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is not the rebate. It is the abatement. So, out of the ?18

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billion a year we send, I speak roughly in these figures, we take

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the 5 billion abatement off and send ?13 billion which is not ?350

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million a week. Can we agree on these facts? Can we also agree...

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No, just agree on that first? The abatement is paid in retrospect and

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continuously open to renegotiation. Not continuously. Now and then. Your

:15:16.:15:20.

last Government gave it a bit of it away. It is roughly ?5 billion at

:15:21.:15:26.

the moment? I'm talking about the entire envelope we we would have

:15:27.:15:30.

decisions to spend the money again. That's the difference. This morning.

:15:31.:15:34.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies looked at these questions. They said

:15:35.:15:38.

for the 350 million figure to be right, we'd have to assume we no

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longer paid anything in but still got the rebate or abatement back.

:15:44.:15:48.

They describe that is an absurd. Do you agree that the Institute for

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Fiscal Studies is a grown-up economic organisation that's

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credible? I do. It also receives 11% of its

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funding from the EU. If 11% of my salary came from one source, despite

:16:07.:16:14.

the respect with which it was held, people would have a right to say it

:16:15.:16:20.

had been bought. I'm saying it is serious but we ought to knowledge

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the money is coming from. You get ?26,000 a year from a source that

:16:28.:16:35.

gets funding from a European source? Are you compromised? My funding

:16:36.:16:44.

comes from that. Why has the Treasury or the government not as

:16:45.:16:48.

the Office for Budget Responsibility to look at the effect of leaving?

:16:49.:16:55.

Because by statute the Office for Budget Responsibility is required

:16:56.:16:59.

only to look at existing government policy and government policy is to

:17:00.:17:02.

remain within the European Union. That is why it can't. All the

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shows... Treasury forecasts are reliable and you want to give people

:17:10.:17:13.

a fair choice. Why would you not ask the very body that was set to

:17:14.:17:17.

overcome the buyers of Treasury forecasts to look at and then the

:17:18.:17:22.

British people could make a choice. I have just answered. I statute it

:17:23.:17:31.

looks at government policy. You set up the OBR, Mr Osborne explained

:17:32.:17:36.

that he had to do this because the Treasury forecasts were so

:17:37.:17:39.

unreliable. Now you are expecting us to believe them. These are Treasury

:17:40.:17:44.

forecasts. It is not just the Treasury, it is the National

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Institute, the Bank of England... The Treasury has made a forecasts

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and you have set up a separate body because it is a unreliable. Why

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should we believe it? What I'm asking you to do is believe the

:17:58.:18:01.

combination of the Bank of England, I've gone through this over and over

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again. I have made that point. When not trying to hide that. One final

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question, the ISS implies that there could be another two years of

:18:16.:18:21.

austerity if we leave the EU. We've already had six years under your

:18:22.:18:24.

government and there is at least another two or three coming anyway

:18:25.:18:28.

whether we stay inside or outside. Why would it make much difference?

:18:29.:18:33.

If you're attacking the integrity of the ISS, you're losing in this

:18:34.:18:38.

campaign. That's what we're saying. Their campaign is in chaos and they

:18:39.:18:44.

are losing the argument. Given your government's record on prolonged

:18:45.:18:47.

asperity with more to come, why would another two years make that

:18:48.:18:55.

much of a difference? I don't want to see jobs lost or fixing the books

:18:56.:18:59.

any more difficult than it is and I don't want to see another recession.

:19:00.:19:04.

That is what all these different economic groups are same would

:19:05.:19:09.

happen. Over to you. Hanley more days to go?

:19:10.:19:12.

Now, there's no David Cameron at PMQs today,

:19:13.:19:14.

he's off to a meeting of the G7 in Japan,

:19:15.:19:16.

and George Osborne is standing in opposite Angela Eagle for Labour.

:19:17.:19:19.

Following last year's General Election, the chancellor was seen

:19:20.:19:25.

as something of a shoo-in to take over as Prime Minister

:19:26.:19:27.

But even before this bruising referendum campaign,

:19:28.:19:30.

his reputation had suffered something of a knock

:19:31.:19:32.

From next year, we will reduce the level of earnings at which a

:19:33.:19:42.

household tax credits and universal credits start to be withdrawn. Stop

:19:43.:19:47.

this wrong-headed and ill walk-through piece of legislation.

:19:48.:19:53.

These proposals latently threatened damage to millions of our fellow

:19:54.:19:58.

citizens. I've listened to the concerns, I a and understand them,

:19:59.:20:01.

the simplest thing to do is not to phase the changes in but avoid them

:20:02.:20:07.

altogether. To give more power to counties and new Mayers, we are

:20:08.:20:12.

giving them the powers to set Sunday trading hours in their areas. The

:20:13.:20:24.

eyes, to the right. 317. The knows to the left, 318. We will be

:20:25.:20:34.

spending more in real terms supporting disabled people than at

:20:35.:20:37.

any point during the last Labour government. That is deeply unfair

:20:38.:20:44.

and that unfairness is damaging to the government and the party and

:20:45.:20:48.

damaging to the public. We will not be going ahead to the changes to PIP

:20:49.:20:53.

that had been put forward. We're going to score complete the task of

:20:54.:20:59.

setting schools free from local education bureaucracy and were going

:21:00.:21:07.

to do it in this Parliament. We have decided it is not necessary to take

:21:08.:21:11.

blanket powers to convert good schools in strong local authorities

:21:12.:21:12.

into academies at this time. Nicky Morgan mayor. Why has he got

:21:13.:21:22.

it wrong on so many occasions and been forced to change policy? The

:21:23.:21:28.

government has a clear direction and we have put forward a huge amount of

:21:29.:21:32.

policies to get there. Why has he had to U-turn on so many key pieces

:21:33.:21:39.

of legislation. Tax credits, changes to PIP, Sunday trading and

:21:40.:21:44.

academies? You set out a whole series across the government. They

:21:45.:21:49.

are all from George Osborne. George Osborne announced the academies. An

:21:50.:21:58.

academies, our aim is to complete the academies Asian process. They

:21:59.:22:02.

are clearly the best way to drive up standards. My question is, why has

:22:03.:22:10.

George Osborne got it wrong on key pieces of legislation and been

:22:11.:22:16.

forced to dramatically U-turn? The goal on academies is exactly the

:22:17.:22:20.

right one. The government wanted to Compal schools to become academies

:22:21.:22:26.

and now they are not. He's had to change on tax credits and disability

:22:27.:22:30.

payments, things he really wanted to do on adjustments on welfare and now

:22:31.:22:36.

he can't. Why does he get it wrong? What we're doing is setting out

:22:37.:22:40.

long-term goals and then there are lots of different ways to get there.

:22:41.:22:45.

That is part of how a government best operates. To say, the most

:22:46.:22:51.

important thing is what we're doing on the economy. Millions of jobs

:22:52.:22:58.

being created, schools, academies, there are roots of getting there.

:22:59.:23:03.

You set out your goals very clearly and work your way there. You admit

:23:04.:23:10.

he has had to change his route and some of the goals he's not going to

:23:11.:23:15.

meet in the way he wanted to. Why is that? Dissent on the Tory

:23:16.:23:19.

backbenches? Obviously, when you have a majority of 12, it is

:23:20.:23:23.

different to operating under a larger majority. For two decades,

:23:24.:23:33.

Britain is used to majorities of 50 or more. It is his party on most of

:23:34.:23:41.

these issues that is rebelling. In one case it was the house of lords.

:23:42.:23:49.

As you say, in one case but there is a lot of dissent. Is it because

:23:50.:23:54.

there is and trust in George Osborne? Has he lost credibility? He

:23:55.:24:01.

can't persuade people. Academies is a very good example, the goal is

:24:02.:24:07.

clear, all schools becoming academies. Actually, the change we

:24:08.:24:15.

have made is that we don't Compal schools to become academies where

:24:16.:24:22.

local authorities... But you're not going to do that now. Belo the goal

:24:23.:24:25.

is to get a full academies. Just 11% believe George Osborne is

:24:26.:24:37.

up to the job of running the country. Do you think he has lost

:24:38.:24:43.

his credibility as a result of these U-turns? No, I will tell you why, he

:24:44.:24:49.

can demonstrate on the economy, on job creation, an making sure we can

:24:50.:24:55.

turn around the deficit and bring that down, on all of these things,

:24:56.:25:00.

there is a clear direction and sticking to that direction, despite

:25:01.:25:04.

things that are thrown at Oz is what that is all about. Will we watch

:25:05.:25:13.

Tory MPs cheering him on even those who want to campaign to leave? We

:25:14.:25:21.

will see. We are united on so many things about implementing the

:25:22.:25:25.

manifesto on which we were elected just over a year ago. You expect him

:25:26.:25:31.

to be cheered from the rafters? Of course. Especially because the areas

:25:32.:25:42.

other than the European issue, and academies and academies and the tax

:25:43.:25:45.

credits and other things they disagree with him on. He is missing

:25:46.:25:51.

Danny Alexander. He only got through the last parliament because Danny

:25:52.:25:56.

Alexander hold him back. Angela Eagle is up today. Will she be

:25:57.:26:07.

brilliant. She will be brilliant. What about Jeremy Corbyn? She will

:26:08.:26:13.

be punchier. She has had lots of practice at this.

:26:14.:26:15.

Now, the Remain campaign yesterday launched a social media campaign

:26:16.:26:18.

designed to reach the "Easyjet generation",

:26:19.:26:20.

which apparently consists of young people

:26:21.:26:23.

who take unrestricted travel around Europe for granted,

:26:24.:26:25.

but are less likely to be registered to vote.

:26:26.:26:29.

And as we all know if there's one thing young people love,

:26:30.:26:32.

it's dropping the "g" from the present participle.

:26:33.:26:37.

So the campaign's messages include: workin', earnin', makin', votin'.

:26:38.:26:43.

and chillin', meetin', tourin', votin'.

:26:44.:26:56.

And, as we at the Daily Politics know a thing or two

:26:57.:26:59.

about communicating with young people

:27:00.:27:00.

- we believe we've got as many as several viewers under 45

:27:01.:27:07.

- we've come up with our own campaign to help explain our

:27:08.:27:12.

Guess The Year competition to all you millennials out there.

:27:13.:27:17.

Here it is - and I think we can all agree that

:27:18.:27:21.

tells you how exactly how it works, no further explainin' needed.

:27:22.:27:32.

You have an American accent when you. Drop the GE.

:27:33.:27:38.

you too can soon be sippin' from a Daily Politics mug.

:27:39.:27:44.

All you have to do is tell us when this happened.

:27:45.:27:54.

I have resigned from the Cabinet and I will make a full statement today.

:27:55.:28:20.

As trading started, there was plenty of end users for the beginning.

:28:21.:29:02.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,

:29:03.:29:05.

send your answer to our special quiz email address -

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Entries must arrive by 12.30 today, and you can see the full terms

:29:09.:29:15.

and conditions for Guess The Year on our website -

:29:16.:29:17.

You'd think I'd know it by now. I've said it about 4 million times.

:29:18.:29:35.

There's a whole lot of tweets from young people coming in. Three now.

:29:36.:29:38.

It's coming. It's coming up to midday here,

:29:39.:29:41.

just take a look at Big Ben yes, Prime Minister's

:29:42.:29:45.

Questions is on its way. And that's not all,

:29:46.:29:48.

Laura Kuenssberg is here. The Prime Minister is in Japan. He

:29:49.:30:01.

is big in Japan, I think. Do you remember that song? He is with G-7

:30:02.:30:10.

finance ministers. When you say it is the B team. Some of the viewers

:30:11.:30:15.

might think it is the 18. The last time we saw Angela Eagle and George

:30:16.:30:19.

Osborne go together it was a very punchy session with lots of gags,

:30:20.:30:26.

quite effective. Mr Osborne on the ropes a little bit. She took him to

:30:27.:30:34.

task over the flooding. Also, guess what, over the EU really go see.

:30:35.:30:40.

There could be a bit of that for George Osborne to handle. She might

:30:41.:30:46.

want to talk about Google. George Osborne said that it was a

:30:47.:30:52.

successful deal. Whereas, the French authorities have raided the Google

:30:53.:30:55.

offices in the last couple of days in what people think is a different,

:30:56.:31:01.

far braver approach. Isn't the answer likely to be, I've got 130

:31:02.:31:07.

million, how much of the French got? Or, actually, under a Labour

:31:08.:31:15.

government, Google had to a tiny amounts. It was in start-up phase

:31:16.:31:21.

them. It's hard to tell what's going on in France because they are all on

:31:22.:31:30.

strike. 25% of petrol stations have no petrol. There has been an air

:31:31.:31:34.

strike and an air traffic control strike. It's hard to tell who is

:31:35.:31:39.

doing the raiding and who's doing the striking. Interesting to see if

:31:40.:31:43.

the much tougher tactics of the French get more in the end than Mr

:31:44.:31:49.

Osborne has got. When we talk about cracking down on tax avoidance and

:31:50.:31:53.

tax evasion which are very different things, are you better to have

:31:54.:31:57.

conversations behind closed doors and work with people, or other

:31:58.:32:01.

countries in the hope of getting somewhere or if you take a

:32:02.:32:04.

sledgehammer to crack a nut do people pack of two other countries

:32:05.:32:08.

using their better lawyers and accountants and better resources

:32:09.:32:11.

than the tax authorities have. That's always been a difficult

:32:12.:32:16.

balance to strike. It's something that Jeremy Corbyn feel strongly

:32:17.:32:19.

about. He would argue that the government hasn't taken a tough

:32:20.:32:31.

enough approach. I'm sure that many members of the government would

:32:32.:32:33.

argue that they have moved significantly forward but tried to

:32:34.:32:35.

take a more cooperative approach rather than just using a

:32:36.:32:37.

sledgehammer. Maybe a French sledgehammer could do the job

:32:38.:32:40.

better. It is tied up with European tax rules which for a long while

:32:41.:32:45.

encouraged these big multinationals to position their intellectual

:32:46.:32:49.

property rights mainly in Luxembourg or Dublin and that allowed them to

:32:50.:32:58.

say they were paying zillions to use the name. And inside the single

:32:59.:33:04.

market people can move their money and business around very easily. In

:33:05.:33:10.

many cases, economists would say it was a big benefit. In this case,

:33:11.:33:18.

perhaps the opposite. Someone who is trying to bring this into the

:33:19.:33:21.

European debate as he did a couple of weeks ago, Gordon Brown is trying

:33:22.:33:26.

to put forward easier crackdowns on tax baddies, if we say inside the EU

:33:27.:33:35.

and losing that if we leave. Didn't he invent half the rules that people

:33:36.:33:37.

have used to avoid tax. THE SPEAKER: There's a process to

:33:38.:33:53.

follow. Wait his turn! Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, as always.

:33:54.:33:57.

The Prime Minister's attending the G7 in Japan. I've been asked to

:33:58.:34:03.

reply on his MAFF. This morning I'd meetings in ministerial colleagues.

:34:04.:34:09.

In addition to my duties in this House, I will have meetings again

:34:10.:34:14.

later today. I'm sure members 07 sit will disagree. The first priority of

:34:15.:34:17.

any Government is the defence and security of our country. Therefore,

:34:18.:34:22.

could the Chancellor outline for me, the steps this Government is taking

:34:23.:34:26.

to replace our Trident nuclear defence? My honourable friend is

:34:27.:34:33.

right. The first duty of Government is to defend the country. To for

:34:34.:34:41.

almost 70 years an independent nuclear deterrent has provided the

:34:42.:34:46.

ultimate insurance of four freedom. We'll renew Trident deterrent,

:34:47.:34:49.

bridge forward votes in this House. We ask MPs from all sides of the

:34:50.:34:55.

House to support this commitment to our national security. When she

:34:56.:35:00.

stands up, the honourable lady representing the Labour Party should

:35:01.:35:04.

inti Kate that support today. THE SPEAKER: Angela e Eagle. Thank

:35:05.:35:13.

you, thank you, Mr Speaker. We look forward to the vote on Trident. And

:35:14.:35:22.

he should get on with it! Mr Speaker, given the overnight news of

:35:23.:35:28.

the French authority's dawn raid on Google investigating allegations of

:35:29.:35:32.

aggravated financial fraud and money laundering, does the Chancellor now

:35:33.:35:36.

regret calling his cosy little tax deal with the same company good news

:35:37.:35:43.

for the British taxpayer? Well, it is good news that we are collecting

:35:44.:35:49.

money in tax from companies that paid no tax when the Labour Party

:35:50.:35:57.

was in office. Sand she seems to forget, she was the exchequer's

:35:58.:36:01.

secretary in the last Government. So, perhaps, when she stands up, she

:36:02.:36:06.

can tell us whether she ever raised with the Inland Revenue at the time,

:36:07.:36:18.

the tax affairs of Google? Mr Speaker, I think obviously the

:36:19.:36:21.

Chancellor has done a bit more research this time. I regard that as

:36:22.:36:31.

a compliment! Mr Speaker, I think from that answer, that the

:36:32.:36:37.

Chancellor is far too easily satisfied with his cosy little tax.

:36:38.:36:47.

I note that even the honourable member for Uxbridge and rice lip

:36:48.:36:51.

labelled this cosy little deal derisory. The British public think

:36:52.:36:57.

it's even worse. Despite all the rhetoric on his watch, the tax gap

:36:58.:37:03.

has actually gone up. His tax deal with the Swiss raised a fraction of

:37:04.:37:07.

the revenue he boasted that it would. And the OBR blaming the lack

:37:08.:37:15.

of resources in Revenue Customs. So why, Mr Speaker, has he sacked

:37:16.:37:21.

11,000 tax staff since 2010? And when is he going to give them the

:37:22.:37:26.

resources they need to do a proper job? Well, we increased resources

:37:27.:37:35.

for the HMRC to tackle tax evasion and avoidance. We've introdeuced a

:37:36.:37:40.

diverted profits tax so companies like Google can't shift their

:37:41.:37:46.

profits offshore nil. We made sure the banks pay a higher tax charge

:37:47.:37:50.

than they ever did under the last Labour Government. I come back to

:37:51.:37:55.

this, she was a Treasury minister, stood at this dispatch box. She's

:37:56.:38:00.

asking me what we've done to tackle tax evasion and tax avoidance. Did

:38:01.:38:04.

she ever raise, as the exchequer secretary, the tax affairs of

:38:05.:38:10.

Google? We should know this before she asks questions of this

:38:11.:38:17.

Government. Mr Speaker... THE SPEAKER: Members must calm

:38:18.:38:26.

themselves! And remain calm. Order! On both sides, they should take the

:38:27.:38:32.

lead from the right honourable and learned gentlemen, the member for

:38:33.:38:40.

Rushcliffe who's always sitting calm in a statistics manlike manner.

:38:41.:38:46.

That's the way to behave. An loo eagle. We all have the greatest

:38:47.:38:52.

respect for the Right Honourable Member for Rushcliffe. The

:38:53.:38:56.

Chancellor of the exchequer will know the exchequer secretary deems

:38:57.:39:01.

with taxes on vices not Google. I did my job in taxing vices when I

:39:02.:39:07.

was in the Treasury. He will be judged on results. He's been in

:39:08.:39:13.

office for six years. With France demanding ten times more from Google

:39:14.:39:17.

than he is, the public will make their own judgment. Mr Speaker,

:39:18.:39:22.

while Labour is campaigning to ensure the UK remains in the

:39:23.:39:27.

European Union because it's the best way to defend rights at work, as

:39:28.:39:33.

well as jobs and prosperity, the party opposite is split right down

:39:34.:39:50.

the middle. And... Mr Speaker, it's descending into vicious acrimony.

:39:51.:39:54.

Last week, the Employment Minister... Last week... Mr Speaker,

:39:55.:40:00.

last week the Employment Minister called for Brexit so there could be

:40:01.:40:05.

a bonfire of workers' rights. Does the Chancellor agree with her or

:40:06.:40:08.

does he agree with Len McCluskey that a vote to stay in the European

:40:09.:40:13.

Union is the best deal for Britain's workers? First of all, she confirmed

:40:14.:40:22.

that when she was in the Treasury, she asked absolutely no questions

:40:23.:40:29.

about the tax affairs of Google. When it comes to the European Union,

:40:30.:40:35.

as she knows, she agree on this, I think it's better Britain remains in

:40:36.:40:41.

the European Union. Why don't we have consensus on other issues, like

:40:42.:40:45.

having an independent nuclear deterrent. Let's have a consensus on

:40:46.:40:50.

supporting businesses rather than disparaging businesses. Let's have a

:40:51.:40:55.

consensus and not piling debts on the next generation but dealing with

:40:56.:40:59.

our deficit. Let's have a consensus the parties in this House should

:41:00.:41:07.

have a credible economic policy. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think he's

:41:08.:41:16.

just agreed with Len McCluskey. The former work and Spences -- Work and

:41:17.:41:21.

Pensions Secretary said this week the Chancellor's Brexit report

:41:22.:41:26.

should not be believed by anyone. He branded the Chancellor Pinnochio

:41:27.:41:29.

with his nose just getting longser and longer with every fib.

:41:30.:41:35.

Meanwhile, the General Secretary to the TUC said the Trish remember's

:41:36.:41:40.

report caves us half a million good reasons to stay in the European

:41:41.:41:47.

Union. Who should the public listen to? I don't think it's any great

:41:48.:42:00.

revelation that different Conservative MPs have different

:42:01.:42:06.

views on the European Union. That's why we're having a referendum.

:42:07.:42:10.

Because this issue does divide parties and families and friends.

:42:11.:42:16.

And we made a commitment in our manifesto that the British people

:42:17.:42:24.

would decide this question. I might just observe, if she wants to talk

:42:25.:42:29.

about divisions in parties, whilst she's sitting here, the leader of

:42:30.:42:33.

the Labour Party is sitting at home wondering whether to impeach the

:42:34.:42:36.

former member of the Labour Party for war crimes. Mr Speaker, I'm glad

:42:37.:42:46.

he agrees with Francis O'Grady. A pitty he can't get half his

:42:47.:42:50.

backbenches and his own party to agree with him. Given that the

:42:51.:42:54.

former Work and Pensions Secretary has just called the Prime Minister

:42:55.:42:59.

disingenuous and the former Tory Mayor of London called him

:43:00.:43:04.

Demmeented, I -- demeanted, I wouldn't talk about Labour splits.

:43:05.:43:08.

He needs to get his own house in order. Following the second

:43:09.:43:16.

omnishambles budget this year, the Chancellor's approval rating have

:43:17.:43:19.

collapse by 80 points amongst his own party. Given he seems to be

:43:20.:43:24.

following a similar career path... Begin he seems to be following a

:43:25.:43:28.

similar career path, isn't it time he turned to Michael Portillo for

:43:29.:43:33.

advice? Last week, the former would be leader said of the Queen's

:43:34.:43:37.

Speech, after 23 years of careful thought about what they would like

:43:38.:43:43.

to do in power... Order. This question will be heard. Those

:43:44.:43:51.

preyting away should cease doing so, it is stupid and counter-productive.

:43:52.:43:56.

After 23 years of careful thought about what they would like to do in

:43:57.:44:00.

power, Michael Portillo said, the answer is nothing. There is nothing

:44:01.:44:04.

they want to do with office or power. The Government has nothing to

:44:05.:44:08.

do, nothing to say and thinks nothing. That's what he said. But

:44:09.:44:15.

even this nothing Queen's Speech has caused a revolt on his own

:44:16.:44:20.

backbenches and caused another U-turn to force the Government to

:44:21.:44:25.

defeat in its legislative programme in 92 years. Mr Speaker... Mr

:44:26.:44:30.

Speaker, doesn't that tell you all you need to know about this Prime

:44:31.:44:34.

Minister and Chancellor? It seems they can't even get their

:44:35.:44:39.

backbenches to vote for them. Nothing without a fight. I tell you

:44:40.:44:47.

what we've done in recent weeks, we've taken another million people

:44:48.:44:52.

out of tax altogether. We have frozen fuel duty. We've cut business

:44:53.:44:57.

rates for small businesses. We've seen the deficit fall by another ?16

:44:58.:45:01.

billion. We delivered a record number of jobs and introduced a

:45:02.:45:07.

national living wage. That's what we've been up to. What have the

:45:08.:45:12.

Labour Party been up to? She talks of ewe turns. They've turned the

:45:13.:45:17.

Labour Party from a party that gave Britain its nuclear deterrent to a

:45:18.:45:23.

pear that wants to scrap it. A party that created the academies programme

:45:24.:45:28.

which now wants to abolish them. A party that once courted businesses

:45:29.:45:33.

now disparages them. The prawn cocktail offences is just plain

:45:34.:45:36.

offensive these days. They've gone from a Labour Party that won

:45:37.:45:39.

elections to a Labour Party that's going to go on losing though

:45:40.:45:42.

elections. Mr Speaker, with 29 days to go

:45:43.:45:53.

before the most important decision in this country has faced in a

:45:54.:45:58.

generation we have a government in utter chaos, split down the middle,

:45:59.:46:03.

at war with itself, the stakes could not be higher and yet this

:46:04.:46:08.

government is at the mercy of its own rebel backbenchers, unable to

:46:09.:46:13.

get their agenda through Parliament, instead of providing the leadership

:46:14.:46:17.

the country needs they are facing a bitter proxy war over the leadership

:46:18.:46:23.

of their party. I noticed that all of the Brexit supporters have been

:46:24.:46:31.

banished from the front bench. CHEERING

:46:32.:46:46.

Well, Mr Speaker... It's nice to see the Justice Secretary here. I think

:46:47.:46:52.

the Chancellor has put the rest of his Brexit colleagues in detention.

:46:53.:46:58.

Instead of providing the leadership the country needs they are fighting

:46:59.:47:02.

a bitter proxy war over the leadership of their own party

:47:03.:47:05.

instead of focusing on the national interest, they are focusing on their

:47:06.:47:12.

narrow self-interest. We need a government that will do the best for

:47:13.:47:17.

Britain. What we've got is a Conservative Party focused only on

:47:18.:47:25.

themselves. CHEERING She talks about our Parliamentary

:47:26.:47:29.

party, let's look at hers. They are like rats deserting a sinking ship.

:47:30.:47:36.

We've got the shadow health minister wants to be the mayor for Liverpool,

:47:37.:47:41.

the member for Bury South wants to be the mayor for Manchester. The

:47:42.:47:45.

shadow leader wants to be the mayor for both cities. When we said we

:47:46.:47:49.

were creating job opportunities, we didn't mean for the whole Shadow

:47:50.:47:56.

Cabinet. They are like a Parliamentary party on day release,

:47:57.:48:00.

are they? When the honourable lady is here, they know the member for

:48:01.:48:05.

Islington will be back and it is four more years of hard labour.

:48:06.:48:13.

Today we are voting on a Queens speech that delivers economic

:48:14.:48:16.

security, protects national security, enhances life chances for

:48:17.:48:23.

the disadvantaged, it doesn't matter who stands at the dispatch box for

:48:24.:48:28.

the Labour Party, these days they are dismantling our defences,

:48:29.:48:32.

wrecking our economy, burdening people with debt and in their own

:48:33.:48:38.

report published this week called Labour Pars future, surprisingly

:48:39.:48:43.

long, they say this, they are becoming increasingly irrelevant to

:48:44.:48:51.

the working people of Britain. CHEERING

:48:52.:49:01.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, what a privilege it is to be called by you.

:49:02.:49:13.

If the Remain campaign has its way, I will have two apply to Jean-Claude

:49:14.:49:18.

Juncker by e-mail to speak. A wonderful example of European, not

:49:19.:49:28.

EU, cooperation. The Fuser Large is built in this country and the wings

:49:29.:49:32.

in Germany. Whether we remain inside or outside the EU will have no

:49:33.:49:39.

affect on this business. As the Chancellor knows, it is trade and

:49:40.:49:44.

hard work of businessmen and women that create jobs and prosperity not

:49:45.:49:51.

politicians and bureaucrats. It is their job is to nurture growth and

:49:52.:49:58.

enterprise... Order! I was looking for? For a question. Does my right

:49:59.:50:12.

honourable friend agree it is to nurture business and not make

:50:13.:50:14.

threats against enterprise and aspiration? Icon plie agree with my

:50:15.:50:22.

honourable friend that jobs and enterprise are created through the

:50:23.:50:26.

ingenuity of private businesses that we should support and nurture in

:50:27.:50:35.

this house. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Lachlan brain is seven

:50:36.:50:43.

years old and he attends the Gaelic medium primary school in Dingwall in

:50:44.:50:49.

the Scottish Highlands. Next week, as the Home Secretary is currently

:50:50.:50:54.

briefing him, the home Department plans to deport him and his family

:50:55.:51:01.

despite the fact that he arrived through a Scottish Government

:51:02.:51:07.

initiative from the Home Office to attract people to live and work in

:51:08.:51:14.

the region. This case has been front page news in Scotland. What does the

:51:15.:51:18.

Chancellor have to say to his family and the community who want him to

:51:19.:51:25.

stay? As I understand it, the family don't meet the immigration criteria.

:51:26.:51:30.

The Home Secretary says she is very happy to write to the Aiton

:51:31.:51:34.

honourable gentleman on the details of the specific case. This has been

:51:35.:51:41.

going on for weeks and that frankly is not good enough. Appeals have

:51:42.:51:46.

been made to the Home Secretary by the First Minister, the local MP,

:51:47.:51:51.

the local MSP, the community, it is wall-to-wall across the media of

:51:52.:51:56.

Scotland and the Chancellor of the Exchequer clearly knew nothing about

:51:57.:52:00.

it. The problem in the Highlands of Scotland is not immigration, it has

:52:01.:52:08.

been emigration. Even at this late stage, knowing nothing about it,

:52:09.:52:15.

speak to the Home Secretary, speak to the Prime Minister and get this

:52:16.:52:21.

sort of -- sorted out. The Home Secretary will write on the details

:52:22.:52:31.

of the case. Can I suggest to the Scottish Nationalists party, they

:52:32.:52:34.

have substantial tax and enterprise powers and if they want to attract

:52:35.:52:40.

people to the Highlands of Scotland, why don't they create an

:52:41.:52:43.

entrepreneurial Scotland that people want to move to from the rest of the

:52:44.:52:47.

United Kingdom where they can grow their business and have a successful

:52:48.:52:54.

life? Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Why is the Chilcott

:52:55.:53:07.

reported not being published before the referendum? Is it because the

:53:08.:53:10.

Prime Minister and the Chancellor don't want the public to be reminded

:53:11.:53:14.

how the government of the day and the establishment are prepared to

:53:15.:53:19.

produce dodgy dossiers, make things up and distort the facts to con the

:53:20.:53:23.

public into supporting something they otherwise wouldn't ahead of the

:53:24.:53:31.

EU referendum? No, because it is an independent report and they decide

:53:32.:53:38.

when to produce it. In the spirit of consensus Mr Speaker, may I say that

:53:39.:53:45.

there are few things that unite the house more than a concentration on

:53:46.:53:49.

the periodic reviews of the boundary commission which has been studied

:53:50.:53:52.

with fierce intensity and covered as eyes. We do note that the electorate

:53:53.:53:59.

of the royal Boehner of Kensington and Chelsea has declined preserver

:54:00.:54:06.

severely -- precipitately and against all logic. Should the Prime

:54:07.:54:10.

Minister be concerned about this and what should he be doing? I thought

:54:11.:54:18.

he was the member of party -- parliament for Ealing. They are

:54:19.:54:25.

drawing up the boundaries and we will see their proposals.

:54:26.:54:37.

Will the Chancellor, Barnardo 's, the oldest children's charity

:54:38.:54:46.

celebrating 150 years of supporting and protecting the honourable

:54:47.:54:51.

children? Does he agree that young people need support beyond the age

:54:52.:54:54.

of 18 to maximise life chances and that the government knew care

:54:55.:55:00.

leavers, and which extends the duty of care to 25 is a fitting way to

:55:01.:55:05.

build an Barnardo 's proud history of giving young people best

:55:06.:55:10.

opportunities in life? I certainly agree with my right honourable

:55:11.:55:15.

friend that Barnardos is a brilliant charity and we should congratulate

:55:16.:55:19.

them on the work that they do. We have huge responsibility to the

:55:20.:55:22.

people in the care of the state and that does not end when they are 18

:55:23.:55:27.

years old. That's why in the Queens speech we are announcing new

:55:28.:55:31.

measures to include support from a personal adviser until they are 25

:55:32.:55:35.

and make sure other bodies like local authorities have care for

:55:36.:55:39.

those people and make sure all the opportunities are brought to their

:55:40.:55:43.

attention. It is part of the life chances strategy that lies at the

:55:44.:55:48.

heart of the Queens speech. The Chancellor wanted a march of the

:55:49.:55:52.

maker. Hundreds of Steelworkers are marching for their future and their

:55:53.:55:58.

communities. Why does the government backed China's bid for market

:55:59.:56:02.

economy status against the interests of the steelworkers? Why does he

:56:03.:56:10.

block tariffs against the interests of steelworkers. When will he put

:56:11.:56:13.

the interests of steelworkers ahead of his own? Of course, our thoughts

:56:14.:56:21.

are with the and their families at very difficult time. If we take a

:56:22.:56:27.

step back, we should all acknowledge that there is a global crisis in the

:56:28.:56:31.

steel industry that tens of thousands of jobs have been lost

:56:32.:56:35.

across Europe alone and many tens of thousands Billy on that. We are

:56:36.:56:42.

taking specific action today to help Tata and the port but works and

:56:43.:56:47.

related works across the country and the Business Secretary has been in

:56:48.:56:50.

India with the First Minister of Wales in a cross-party effort.

:56:51.:56:56.

Nationally, we have taken action to reduce energy charges are an energy

:56:57.:56:59.

intensive industries, we have taken action to make sure there is more

:57:00.:57:03.

flexibility with emission regulations, doing everything we can

:57:04.:57:07.

to help this industry at a very difficult time including making sure

:57:08.:57:11.

there are top tariffs on Chinese dumping and as a result on tariffs

:57:12.:57:22.

on Rebar still, those imports are down 90%. Would the Chancellor

:57:23.:57:35.

comment on the fact that Lord sugar has joined the government as Empress

:57:36.:57:42.

-- enterprise are show that people are abandoning the Labour Party. And

:57:43.:57:48.

can he confirmed that he has no plans for a sugar tax? We have hired

:57:49.:57:58.

Lord Sugar to head enterprise and he will bring knowledge and enterprise.

:57:59.:58:03.

Apparently, he has told the Labour Party, you're fired! I have a

:58:04.:58:12.

14-year-old autistic constituent who got on very well at primary school

:58:13.:58:16.

but since moving to secondary school has found them on compromising,

:58:17.:58:23.

leaving him with special school as his only option. What will the

:58:24.:58:28.

Chancellor do to make sure when the independent expert group looking at

:58:29.:58:31.

initial teacher training reports back that ministers will ensure that

:58:32.:58:34.

specific autism training performs part of their curriculum? I think

:58:35.:58:41.

the honourable lady raises an important issue and I think she will

:58:42.:58:44.

have a lot of sympathy from colleagues around the house. The

:58:45.:58:51.

Education Secretary has raised her concerns and shares her concerns and

:58:52.:58:55.

has raised the issue with the chair of the initial teacher training

:58:56.:58:59.

review Stephen Mundie and her efforts will be to ensure that

:59:00.:59:05.

teacher training supports children with special educational needs,

:59:06.:59:11.

specifically autism, and will recommend how teacher training

:59:12.:59:13.

should cover this in the report which will be published shortly. My

:59:14.:59:25.

local clinical commissioning group are reporting on the report leading

:59:26.:59:36.

to downgrading at Doncaster infirmary. Can we ensure that all

:59:37.:59:43.

bands are on the table and that we must be able to compete with their

:59:44.:59:57.

needs. Any service changes need to be made by the local NHS and they

:59:58.:00:02.

need to be based on clear evidence that they will deliver better

:00:03.:00:05.

outcomes for patients. It's right that these decisions are made by

:00:06.:00:09.

local clinicians rather than politicians but they do need to meet

:00:10.:00:16.

the key tests set out. Public and patient engagement, support from GP

:00:17.:00:20.

commissioners, be based on clinical evidence and consider patient

:00:21.:00:24.

choice. I would expect the local NHS to consider all these in any

:00:25.:00:29.

decision they reach. The House of Commons library estimates that 4.9

:00:30.:00:34.

million UK citizens live or work in other countries and yet week in,

:00:35.:00:39.

week out I meet constituents from overseas that cannot get visas,

:00:40.:00:45.

residences or citizenship here and the whole of Scotland is outrage at

:00:46.:00:50.

the threat of deportation for the Brain family. What is the difference

:00:51.:00:54.

between an economic migrant and an expat? The honourable gentleman and

:00:55.:01:01.

straights that we do have border controls in this country and we do

:01:02.:01:06.

have immigration rules that need to be complied with. That is a very

:01:07.:01:11.

important part of the European Union Schengen area agreements that we are

:01:12.:01:16.

not part. It is of the special status we have in the European

:01:17.:01:22.

Union. Would the Chancellor join me in welcoming the crew of HMS Duncan,

:01:23.:01:28.

the last of the type 45 destroyers presently moored in London for the

:01:29.:01:33.

Battle of Jutland commemorations. Would he support the work that the

:01:34.:01:37.

all-party group is doing to ensure all Armed Forces and their families

:01:38.:01:41.

have the very best housing that we can offer them? I absolutely join

:01:42.:01:48.

her in welcoming the crew of HMS Duncan and celebrating all they do

:01:49.:01:52.

on behalf of this country to keep us safe and to represent Britain around

:01:53.:01:56.

the world and of course we return them a duty of care and that is

:01:57.:02:03.

enshrined in government. That didn't exist before we came into government

:02:04.:02:07.

and we are honouring our promise to honour the armed services and our

:02:08.:02:16.

Navy. This government wants to raise tuition fees even higher. Why has

:02:17.:02:20.

the Chancellor changed his view since 2003 when he said that you

:02:21.:02:23.

wish and fees were attacks on learning? Back then, the Labour

:02:24.:02:32.

Party were voting for Jewish and fees and the difference is, we

:02:33.:02:42.

learned our lesson and they have forgotten theirs. -- tuition fees.

:02:43.:02:48.

This has given us the best universities in the world and the

:02:49.:02:55.

record number of students from disadvantaged backgrounds. They have

:02:56.:02:59.

an incredible policy to abolish tuition fees that they introduced

:03:00.:03:04.

and create a ?10 billion hole in the public finances. It's time they were

:03:05.:03:09.

straight with students that it is completely unavoidable.

:03:10.:03:21.

St Albans and many areas of the South and East need their green

:03:22.:03:27.

belt, 3 million people might come into this country if we remain.

:03:28.:03:32.

Which parts of the green belt will be needed to build on and where will

:03:33.:03:37.

it go? We need to provide houses, homes and infrastructure for these

:03:38.:03:43.

people. We made a clear commitment to protect the green belt and our

:03:44.:03:47.

planning laws that we introduced and proposed to introduce do meet those

:03:48.:03:53.

laws but I have to say to my honourable friend, we disagree on

:03:54.:03:58.

this issue on European union membership and I see no particular

:03:59.:04:06.

evidence from the Leave campaign that more people would come in.

:04:07.:04:10.

Let's agree on this, we have a referendum and it is not going to be

:04:11.:04:14.

up to her or me but the British people to desired. -- decide. No

:04:15.:04:23.

wonder should underestimate public support for the BBC. 200,000 people

:04:24.:04:28.

have signed a petition over the removal of the recipes website. The

:04:29.:04:35.

government may have held back from some more extreme proposals but

:04:36.:04:40.

there is still a need for concern. Will they allow MPs to provide

:04:41.:04:44.

Parliamentary scrutiny that the charter renewal so Rob Lee deserves?

:04:45.:04:53.

We want a great public broadcaster. We have agreed a deal with the BBC

:04:54.:04:59.

that they have welcomed. On the specific issue she raises, that was

:05:00.:05:03.

an operational decision by the BBC and not a decision taken by the

:05:04.:05:09.

government. We have a great national public broadcaster in the BBC. We

:05:10.:05:16.

don't want a newspaper in the form of the BBC. As newspapers move

:05:17.:05:20.

online, the BBC want to be careful about what information they have on

:05:21.:05:25.

their website so we can also have a flourishing private press. I think

:05:26.:05:32.

the BBC have got that balance right. Will the Chancellor, firm and

:05:33.:05:36.

explain as the House of Commons library and the ONS figures for 2015

:05:37.:05:43.

clearly show that as we export 44% of goods and services within the

:05:44.:05:49.

single market, why it is that in relation to the other 27 member

:05:50.:05:55.

states we run a disastrous loss or deficit on these exports of 68

:05:56.:06:00.

billion per annum, up 9 billion from last year alone whereas Germany with

:06:01.:06:06.

the same 27 runs a profit or surplus of a massive 82 billion. Isn't that

:06:07.:06:13.

a bad deal? We are a massive exporter of services and they

:06:14.:06:22.

represent a 80% of the economy. We are home to one of the most

:06:23.:06:26.

successful car industries in the world and we export to the

:06:27.:06:31.

continent. We are part of the European Supply chain and that is

:06:32.:06:35.

why leading businesses are in favour of is remaining in the European

:06:36.:06:40.

Union. We disagree on this issue and that is why together we stood on the

:06:41.:06:43.

manifesto to have a referendum and let the people decide. Thank you, Mr

:06:44.:06:54.

Speaker. Headteachers, NHS, private-sector employers in my

:06:55.:06:57.

constituency are telling me they have few if any qualified applicants

:06:58.:07:03.

for a range of skilled roles and too many experienced staff are leaving.

:07:04.:07:07.

The single most common reason for this crisis is the cost of rental

:07:08.:07:12.

and purchase housing in west London which the government's housing

:07:13.:07:16.

policies will not addressed. Even the subsidies to buy... Order!

:07:17.:07:25.

Order! I'm sorry to say to the honourable lady, one sentence with a

:07:26.:07:29.

question at the end of it and we must press on. Will the Chancellor

:07:30.:07:35.

acknowledge this recruitment and retention crisis and do something

:07:36.:07:42.

about it? We have 25,000 more clinically trained staff in our

:07:43.:07:45.

national health service but we agree with her that there is a challenge

:07:46.:07:50.

of housing in London. I met with Sadik Khan earlier this week and we

:07:51.:07:54.

are going to see where we can agree with others is that can address that

:07:55.:08:01.

issue. In my right honourable friend's enthusiast and to bludgeon

:08:02.:08:05.

the voter into supporting the European Union that they don't

:08:06.:08:10.

really like, how can he justify planning to break the law? Is he

:08:11.:08:17.

aware that the public Administration select committee has now published

:08:18.:08:22.

three legal opinions from Speaker's Council, from... THEY TALK OVER EACH

:08:23.:08:32.

OTHER I hope the sentence is coming to an

:08:33.:08:36.

end with a question at the end of it. Very briefly. They make it

:08:37.:08:46.

perfectly clear that it is illegal for the government to keep their

:08:47.:08:49.

pro-EU propaganda on the government website during the third period.

:08:50.:08:59.

Turing the period, the government will comply with the law. Can I make

:09:00.:09:04.

a general observation. We have fought for the referendum which is

:09:05.:09:08.

taking place with huge issues at stake about Britain's economy,

:09:09.:09:16.

Britain's security and place in the world. Let's debate the substance

:09:17.:09:21.

rather than the process and then the British people will feel they have

:09:22.:09:24.

had a range of opinions and they can make their own mind up. The care

:09:25.:09:32.

sector faces a crisis made worse by the failure of the Chancellor to

:09:33.:09:35.

properly fund increases in the minimum wage. Local government

:09:36.:09:41.

Association has asked the Chancellor to bring forward ?700 million of

:09:42.:09:46.

care funding from 2019 to this year and next year to help with those

:09:47.:09:51.

extra costs. Will the Chancellor listen to local councils and form

:09:52.:09:57.

his own minimum wage policy? Of course we always listen to local

:09:58.:10:01.

authorities and we have given them the power which many have used to

:10:02.:10:06.

apply a social care precept and that has come in in April in many areas.

:10:07.:10:11.

At the same time, we have put more money into the better care fund and

:10:12.:10:15.

we are confident that social care is funded. More needs to be done to

:10:16.:10:22.

help the social care sector and the key is going to be integration with

:10:23.:10:25.

the national health service in the coming years so it is much more

:10:26.:10:28.

seamless as a service for our citizens. Last year at the

:10:29.:10:33.

Conservative Party conference, the Prime Minister said that the future,

:10:34.:10:39.

for we the state provided was shameful. The Dell or early grave on

:10:40.:10:45.

the streets. Yesterday the Prison Reform Trust produced a report

:10:46.:10:50.

identifying that far too high a proportion of children in care come

:10:51.:10:54.

in touch with the criminal justice system. Will he ensure that policies

:10:55.:11:03.

are implemented that prevents the unnecessary contact between the

:11:04.:11:06.

criminal justice system and children in care so that they can have a good

:11:07.:11:12.

future? I think he speaks very powerfully and, of course, we've got

:11:13.:11:16.

to have a care system that does the very best for children. The Queens

:11:17.:11:29.

speech has measures in that respect. The key thing is reforming our

:11:30.:11:33.

prison system so that people are punished for crimes but have a

:11:34.:11:36.

chance to rehabilitate themselves and that is one of the reforms I am

:11:37.:11:42.

proudest to be part of. A Southampton letting agency has been

:11:43.:11:45.

banned from trading for three years for not giving tenants their

:11:46.:11:50.

deposits back and using them for other purposes. The situation as far

:11:51.:11:59.

as letting agencies is concerned is that they are almost completely

:12:00.:12:04.

regulated and it is potluck as to whether residents get a fey deal or

:12:05.:12:08.

not. Is the Chancellor planning to do anything about this? We are

:12:09.:12:15.

looking to make sure that people who rent are getting proper consumer

:12:16.:12:19.

protection including from landlords who unreasonably withhold deposits.

:12:20.:12:38.

It was the Chancellor and Angela Eagle for Labour. Labour decided to

:12:39.:12:45.

go on this raid on the Google offices by the French tax

:12:46.:12:49.

authorities who are trying to get over a billion pounds out of

:12:50.:12:56.

auto-Google compared to the arrangement come to with Google in

:12:57.:13:01.

the UK which net HMRC about ?130 million. There was a bit of Argy

:13:02.:13:05.

bargey on that. The Chancellor wanted to anyhow what Miss Eagle had

:13:06.:13:11.

done when she was a Treasury minister on Google. He couldn't

:13:12.:13:16.

quite get an answer. Whether it was irrelevant. Banting back and

:13:17.:13:21.

forward. Not that much substance. Some of the longest-winded questions

:13:22.:13:25.

of modern time from the backbenchers there. This was the House of Commons

:13:26.:13:30.

in search of a question mark. Very often it didn't find that particular

:13:31.:13:34.

question mark. We'll go through in a second. We'll find out first of all

:13:35.:13:42.

what the voters thought of it. Francs Edwards said enAngela Eagle

:13:43.:13:49.

is the cleverist and wittiest. On-Maxwell said who on earth in the

:13:50.:13:54.

Labour opposition put Miss Eagle forward. What an embarrassing

:13:55.:13:59.

performance. Paula said George Osborne said there were different

:14:00.:14:02.

points of view on Europe in the Conservative Party. That's why we're

:14:03.:14:07.

having a referendum. Is that a good enough reason for this turmoil for

:14:08.:14:12.

months on end. All we are getting these days are long pre-prepared

:14:13.:14:18.

statements. Jim Pattinson said are there any questions in PMQs. Some me

:14:19.:14:24.

andered. Went up a cul-de-sac and came back down. Found another

:14:25.:14:28.

cul-de-sac. Fell over a precipice and still couldn't get the question

:14:29.:14:32.

mark. Laura, let me ask you a question that has a very quick

:14:33.:14:35.

question mark. Why was the Chancellor going on about Trident?

:14:36.:14:39.

He couldn't resist the opportunity when he was at the dispatch box at

:14:40.:14:42.

Prime Minister's Questions to pry to make an awkward point for the Labour

:14:43.:14:47.

Party. One of the things not noticed about the Queen's Speech last week

:14:48.:14:53.

which was roundly attacked for having nothing in it, also by

:14:54.:14:59.

Michael Portillo, there was in it a commitment to press ahead with plans

:15:00.:15:03.

for friedent. That, for the Labour Party, as we know, is a very tricky

:15:04.:15:07.

issue. The leader of the party wants to try to get rid of it. He's having

:15:08.:15:12.

a defence review he pretty much hopes will come up with that

:15:13.:15:15.

recommendation. Many, many backbenchers and the big powerful

:15:16.:15:19.

unions disagree with him. George Osborne in shock move to try to

:15:20.:15:25.

embarrass Labour Party when in big profile moment at dispatch box.

:15:26.:15:29.

Angela Eagle does well at these sort of events. She's good on her feet.

:15:30.:15:34.

Not as good as she was last time though? She wasn't a bit more

:15:35.:15:39.

long-winded. It is quite extraordinary, this is the first

:15:40.:15:42.

Prime Minister's Question Time setting after a Queen's Speech. It

:15:43.:15:46.

reflected there was nothing in the Queen's Speech. None of the

:15:47.:15:51.

questions were really going at the substance. Both sides are

:15:52.:15:56.

struggling. Normally angle will is a punchy. She has a good turn of

:15:57.:16:01.

phrase. Why have you hired Alan surer to do what? He's going to be

:16:02.:16:07.

an enterprise Tsar. Works with the business department. Always good to

:16:08.:16:12.

get people from outside in to the business department. We brought

:16:13.:16:16.

people in to make sure you have had people in business helping with the

:16:17.:16:21.

department to make sure the civil servants and many of whom haven't

:16:22.:16:24.

been in business, know what it's like. He'll have to step down from

:16:25.:16:30.

presenting The Apprentice? Not sure of the details of his contract with

:16:31.:16:37.

his broadcasters. In 2009 when Gordon Brown made an Enterprise Tsar

:16:38.:16:41.

said in my view it is not possible for him to continue to present The

:16:42.:16:47.

Apprentice when so closely identified with the Government. I

:16:48.:16:52.

had thought he would stand down in his role of Apprentice. He's made no

:16:53.:16:58.

secret for his admiration of Gordon Brown. Is this window dressing? I

:16:59.:17:05.

his arrangement last time is to carry on on The Apprentice and also

:17:06.:17:10.

advise the Government. So it's window dressing? If he was a proper

:17:11.:17:16.

member of the Government he can't present a BBC programme? He will not

:17:17.:17:20.

be a minister. He'll support the Government and business department.

:17:21.:17:25.

To do what? To make sure we've an environment for enterprise. This is

:17:26.:17:30.

a man who repeatedly meets business people, entrepreneurs, trying to get

:17:31.:17:34.

businesses going. And making sure the business department sets the

:17:35.:17:39.

environment for enterprise. A key part of delivering what we want. He

:17:40.:17:46.

said not so long ago, George Osborne hasn't got a handle on economics.

:17:47.:17:50.

You will you'll see the results. It is not me you have to convince, it's

:17:51.:17:55.

Alan Sugar you've just hired. He's clearly come on board. That's good

:17:56.:18:01.

news. Has he changed his mind? You'll have to ask him that. Is he

:18:02.:18:05.

the only businessman you know? Is he the only businessman you know?

:18:06.:18:12.

Definitely not. I wondered why you politicians have been so obsessed by

:18:13.:18:16.

him. What was his greatest business achievement? He start add long time

:18:17.:18:21.

ago. We all started a long time ago. You did, Andrew. What's his greatest

:18:22.:18:27.

business achievement? He started in tech in the eighties. He started in

:18:28.:18:33.

property. How did that go? He's involved in meeting all sorts of

:18:34.:18:37.

business people. What's been his greatest business achievement. If

:18:38.:18:42.

he's such a great entrepreneur and advise you on enterprise what has he

:18:43.:18:46.

achieved? We've a whole series of business people in. You've only one

:18:47.:18:56.

Tsar. Not true. For enterprise? We'd two a year, entrepreneurs in

:18:57.:18:59.

residence. People who come in to business to make sure there's a

:19:00.:19:02.

voice inside the business department. Sometimes on this

:19:03.:19:06.

programme, you can have too much fun! I'm sure it has nothing to do

:19:07.:19:13.

with the fact that Lord Sugar was happy to associate himself with the

:19:14.:19:17.

Labour Party and recently said he's no longer happen why I to associate

:19:18.:19:22.

himself with the Labour Party. I would say, these things often don't

:19:23.:19:26.

end well. We've seen it plenty of times. Gordon Brown did it. Other

:19:27.:19:31.

politicians did it. You bring in people with a high profile with the

:19:32.:19:35.

public or in their own sector. They come into Government. Sometimes do

:19:36.:19:40.

good work. They sometimes don't do much at all. Then they flounce out,

:19:41.:19:46.

point fingers and is a, that lot don't no what they are doing at all.

:19:47.:19:50.

I've better things to do. There are already big names from business

:19:51.:19:55.

inside the Government. Jim O'Neill, former Goldman Sachs. The former

:19:56.:20:00.

bottom of BT is Trade Minister. The idea the Government has to be seen

:20:01.:20:04.

to bring in business expertise seems a little bit hard to fathom. It's

:20:05.:20:11.

not that we have. We choose to. We've brought Mark Price in to do

:20:12.:20:15.

the Trade Minister job are. But that's a job. This is too. It's not

:20:16.:20:21.

paid, is it? It's important constantly to make sure the

:20:22.:20:25.

Government ask supporting this country. This must be a devastating

:20:26.:20:31.

blow to the Labour Party? The loss of Alan Sugar? Yes. I'm trying to

:20:32.:20:37.

come to terms with it. Shall we dim the lights and move on?

:20:38.:20:42.

, I just say, you're fired! I've been wanting to say that. Who are

:20:43.:20:49.

you saying it to? She's an indiscriminate firer. Thanks, Laura.

:20:50.:20:53.

A group of ex-military chiefs have today declared that Britain's

:20:54.:20:55.

defence and security would be enhanced by leaving the EU.

:20:56.:20:58.

Under the banner Veterans For Europe,

:20:59.:21:00.

they warn that the UK is on an irreversible path towards an EU army

:21:01.:21:05.

The dozen former senior military officers include

:21:06.:21:11.

Major General Tim Cross who was commander of UK Forces

:21:12.:21:13.

in Iraq, and he joins us now from College Green.

:21:14.:21:16.

Welcome to the programme. How does our membership of the EU lessen, as

:21:17.:21:24.

has been said, our commitment to NATO? It draws us into what is an

:21:25.:21:30.

inevitable EU military union within the EU which has been declared in a

:21:31.:21:34.

number of different treaties, including the Treaty of Lisbon. Of

:21:35.:21:39.

course, we are fully integrated already in the EU military staff. In

:21:40.:21:44.

the EU defence agency, even though the Prime Minister said in 2010 he

:21:45.:21:47.

was going to leave the EU defence agency. And the EU battle group we

:21:48.:21:52.

saw exercising in England last week. I'll ask you again. How does it

:21:53.:21:57.

lessen our commitment to NATO? Why can't we be part of both, the EU and

:21:58.:22:02.

NATO? It competes with NATO. France and Germany... In what way? It draws

:22:03.:22:08.

money from NATO. No European Government is going to expend more

:22:09.:22:12.

defence money that it is already spending. Quite the reverse, in

:22:13.:22:17.

fact. They'll building an EU military unit. A lot of money going

:22:18.:22:21.

into NATO will go into that EU military union. That will be

:22:22.:22:28.

concerning to the Americans. Barack Obama was in Germany telling Angela

:22:29.:22:31.

Merkel she had to pay another moo NATO. They are already worried by

:22:32.:22:36.

the amount that goes into NATO. When the Americans realise what will

:22:37.:22:39.

happen with EU military, they will begin to draw back from NATO as

:22:40.:22:44.

well. That's the one alliance that's kept the UK and Europe safe since

:22:45.:22:49.

the Second World War. Not the EU. But the UK Government is still very

:22:50.:22:54.

committed to NATO as are other members. How would our defence

:22:55.:22:59.

Cabibility and defence security improve if we left the EU? On the

:23:00.:23:04.

security front, what currently happens, we have to allow any EU

:23:05.:23:10.

citizen to come into the UK. To freely chaff here. We can check

:23:11.:23:14.

their passports. We have to let them in unless we can prove conclusively

:23:15.:23:18.

they present an immediate threat to the life and livelihood of the UK.

:23:19.:23:25.

We are not part of the Schengen area in this sense. We are not part of

:23:26.:23:32.

Schengen. We have to let them in unless they are a direct threat.

:23:33.:23:37.

That's often based on secret enEU intelligence. If leave the EU we can

:23:38.:23:44.

prevent them coming. People who have fought with Islamic State in Syria

:23:45.:23:48.

and Iraq. Having all these large number of people coming in puts our

:23:49.:23:54.

intelligence service under stress. Do you accept many of the threats

:23:55.:23:58.

from terrorism have come from people who were British-born and who are

:23:59.:24:02.

already here? I do accept that. That's very true. We don't want to

:24:03.:24:07.

add to that problem by continuing to allow those people who threaten us

:24:08.:24:10.

to come into the UK from Europe if we can stop them. We can't stop them

:24:11.:24:16.

now. Let me just go back to you. On NATO, is our commitment to NATO as

:24:17.:24:20.

Richard Kemp says, being affected by staying in the EU and moves towards

:24:21.:24:26.

military union? No, there will not be an EU army. Those fears can be

:24:27.:24:31.

put to one side. Not least evidence by the vast majority of the security

:24:32.:24:37.

of recently retired security and military senior personnel who

:24:38.:24:41.

support our remaining in the EU alongside staying in NATO as part of

:24:42.:24:45.

our security. It is very important. We're going to have to leave there.

:24:46.:24:49.

Richard Kemp, thank you. Now we talked earlier

:24:50.:24:51.

about the Remain campaign's attempts Leave.EU, which you will remember

:24:52.:24:53.

was the group that lost out in the race to become

:24:54.:24:59.

the official leave campaign, said it wanted to reach out

:25:00.:25:01.

to the youth vote with its Bpop Live event

:25:02.:25:04.

in Birmingham. after a concert planned

:25:05.:25:06.

for earlier this year had to be

:25:07.:25:11.

cancelled when the headline act, Yesterday, soon after

:25:12.:25:13.

the line-up was publicised, The boyband 5ive -

:25:14.:25:18.

which actually now only consists of two of the band -

:25:19.:25:20.

pulled out, deeming it more a political rally

:25:21.:25:22.

than a pop concert. The idea of appearing

:25:23.:25:25.

at the event alongside political figures including Nigel Farage

:25:26.:25:27.

also didn't appeal in the end to singer Alesha Dixon,

:25:28.:25:29.

who also pulled out. and the line-up still,

:25:30.:25:31.

as best as we can establish, and the American group

:25:32.:25:36.

Sister Sledge. Well, to discuss this

:25:37.:25:52.

we're joined by the former He's had his own problems

:25:53.:25:58.

with mixing music and politics after releasing and then withdrawing

:25:59.:26:02.

his Ukip Calypso song in 2014. What do you make of all this? It is

:26:03.:26:11.

interesting Obama didn't mention that the American people wanted us

:26:12.:26:18.

to remain. He didn't mention Sister Sledge. Maybe they don't know. If I

:26:19.:26:25.

had ebeen running, I'd have targeted people who were vote Leave leave.

:26:26.:26:30.

Roger Daltrey is vote Leave leave. I would have targeted them to go it.

:26:31.:26:35.

Who else other than Roger Daltrey? Ian Botham on a singing day! I

:26:36.:26:41.

thought cricket was his thing. #2348 He sings with his bat. I wouldn't

:26:42.:26:46.

argue with him. You'd get people who were pro-vote. It is a bit more

:26:47.:26:53.

sensible. When you're doing Live Aid you're getting people sympathetic to

:26:54.:26:58.

Live Aid. If you're singing we shall overcome the civil rights movement.

:26:59.:27:02.

You get people interested in it. Probably not Bob Dylan for this

:27:03.:27:05.

concert? Probably not for this. I don't know. If the money was right.

:27:06.:27:11.

Mick Jagger would do it for money? He didn't ask me or you. Probably

:27:12.:27:17.

because he's heard me sing. It's easier on the left to organise these

:27:18.:27:22.

things most singers art easts would like the identify with the left.

:27:23.:27:29.

They've done that before. It was done in 1987-1990. Paul Weller, the

:27:30.:27:39.

Commune Ards. Billy Bragg. Probably a mistake for Ukip to do this? This

:27:40.:27:44.

is cross-party. A vote Leave leave. No, it's not actually. It is a

:27:45.:27:57.

Leave. EU. This is another a Ukip kind of one? Am I right in saying

:27:58.:28:03.

that? From what I can gayer Gombault it is not vote Leave leave. It will

:28:04.:28:06.

be in Birmingham. Are you going to go? It is up the road. It is the

:28:07.:28:12.

Jude Ian people's front not the people's Jude Ian front. Who's left?

:28:13.:28:23.

Sister Sledge. Mike, bash that red button. The

:28:24.:28:36.

Mike, thanks for being on. Sorry it was so rushed.

:28:37.:28:40.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:28:41.:28:43.

Jo and I will be here at noon tomorrow

:28:44.:28:45.

with all the big political stories of the day.

:28:46.:28:47.

We'll be joined by Iain Duncan Smith.

:28:48.:28:49.

Do join us if you can. Bye-bye.

:28:50.:28:55.

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