23/05/2016 Daily Politics


23/05/2016

Jo Coburn is live from Westminster with the latest on the EU referendum. Guests include Liam Fox, David Lammy and Rachel Johnson on her campaign against 'iceberg basements'.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Just one month to go until Britain votes in the referendum on EU

:00:39.:00:42.

membership, and both sides are turning up the volume.

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The Prime Minister and Chancellor are warning of a "DIY recession"

:00:46.:00:51.

lasting a year, should we vote to leave.

:00:52.:00:52.

Their opponents say their forecast is "fantastical".

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Meanwhile, Leave campaigners continue to push their message

:00:58.:00:59.

that the NHS would be better off out of the EU, despite claims

:01:00.:01:02.

from some senior figures within the health service.

:01:03.:01:05.

Questions over the Conservatives' election spending continue.

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We'll speak to the SNP MP who's reported the Tories

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And, the journalist Rachel Johnson will be here to tell us

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about her campaign to change the planning laws, and stop

:01:20.:01:21.

her wealthy neighbours digging down to create

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And, with us for the whole of the programme today, two MPs

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who are going to spend the next month arguing over Britain's future,

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But we know they like each other really, underneath!

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It's the former Conservative Defence Secretary and Leave

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And the Labour MP David Lammy, he's supporting a vote to Remain.

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So, in four weeks' time, voters will be going to the polls.

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And, as we pass that landmark, the claims and counterclaims

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The might of the Treasury machine has been brought to bear

:02:06.:02:09.

by the Remain camp this morning, with their latest warning

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While their opponents in the Leave camp are pursuing their own favoured

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messages on the potential benefit of leaving for the NHS, and

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So, let's take you though some of those big claims.

:02:23.:02:29.

David Cameron and George Osborne have released a Treasury

:02:30.:02:35.

report warning that Britain would enter a year-long, so-called

:02:36.:02:38.

DIY recession, with the economy

:02:39.:02:39.

Meanwhile, Leave campaigner Penny Mordaunt has launched

:02:40.:02:43.

a new push highlighting the possible risks of Turkish accession

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to the EU, focussing on David Cameron's call to "pave

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the road from Ankara to Brussels."

:02:49.:02:53.

The fight this week will also centre on the role the EU plays in the NHS,

:02:54.:02:57.

with its chief executive Simon Stevens yesterday

:02:58.:02:58.

claiming exiting would cost staff and resources.

:02:59.:03:06.

Those campaigning to Leave have launched a new TV advert

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which argues the reverse, saying health service could benefit

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by up to an extra ?350 million a week after a Brexit.

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In Wales, the leaders of Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru

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have put aside their differences to back Remain.

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Carwyn Jones and Leanne Wood said that Wales was "stronger,

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safer and better off in Europe".

:03:25.:03:31.

But one friendship appears to have hit the buffers,

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with David Cameron's policy guru Steve Hilton today arguing that

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So, those are some of the big campaign issues.

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Let's begin by talking about one of them, and that's the possibility

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Gentlemen, if you look at the vote the poster, Turkey, population of 76

:03:46.:04:03.

million is joining the EU. David Lammy, will that happen?

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Historically, the Germans and French have been against it. We are

:04:07.:04:11.

certainly lukewarm about it. It came up in discussion in relation

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to the refugees in the last few months, and a deal that was done

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that is seen to put this way into the long grass, so it is not

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reality. I might say my constituencies, with

:04:25.:04:30.

the largest Turkish speaking publishing in Britain, 18,000

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Cypriots from the 2011 census, 50,000 Turkish speaking former

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Kurds. They are really contributing to our economy. This is whipping up

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a storm. To get a debate about immigration, not the EU, I

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suspect... If it was on the table because talks

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are supposed to have been energised, would you be in favour of Turkey

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joining in the next five years? Not as of today. That is

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scaremongering, Project Fear by your side?

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The aim is to get Turkey into the European Union. The European Union

:05:10.:05:12.

game. And Britain? British Government

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policy to support Turkish policy of the EU. The Gwent has always been

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that it would help push the Turkish political process towards the norms

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of the EU. But, how do you get a country of 80

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million people into the EU while used to have free movement? And the

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problems that could have caused with mass migration inside the EU? That

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risk is still there, it is not being addressed. We have not stand the

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concept of free movement of people, that is the biggest roadblock to

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their membership. Because of the veto which Penny

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Morduant incorrectly said we didn't have, the likelihood of Turkey ever

:05:58.:06:00.

joining the EU in the foreseeable future is off the cards?

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Turkey was able to use the migrant crisis to its benefit. It hasn't got

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Visa free movement yet. You see the influence Turkey is

:06:12.:06:18.

wielding. And you see the risks that if Turkey were to join along with

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wielding. And you see the risks that Albania and others, that principle

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of free movement would mean potentially huge migrations across

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Europe in search of work. David Cameron was

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Europe in search of work. yesterday Britain does have a veto,

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which he exercised it? If you look back at his track record, he has

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been in favour as Liam Fox has said of Turkish accession, he championed

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it. I am confident, as of today, he

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would, because of the situation in Europe finds itself in. Alongside

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him would be the Germans who are clear they don't want Turkey coming

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into the EU, and the French. It isn't going to happen, it was

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doubtful before the crash, very doubtful as of today.

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It is doubtful. So you are because of a British Government

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veto, even if you doubt David because of a British Government

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I don't believe it is out of the question for Turkey to join, it is

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clear question for Turkey to join, it is

:07:22.:07:33.

Once we have decided to stay in the EU and we are locked in, it is 41

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years since we last had a choice, who is to say we won't have all

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these countries in number four way are given another say.

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And the year 3000... David Cameron said... Did you not believe him?

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They think they can predict these numbers far out. It is the

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Government policy to see Turkey come in, and the EU.

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Every expert over the weekend in terms of EU put it said it is

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unlikely. Alongside the poster, Leave campaigners claimed Britain

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will open the doors to high levels of mergers, terrorists and

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kidnappers from Turkey, is that responsible?

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You need to look at the whole position.

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That claim... I wouldn't use those exact words.

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You can see that there are commuter seen what has happened in recent

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days with those coming into the EU. We don't know whether they are

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economic migrants, refugees, sympathises with terrorist

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movements. When they get citizenship, the point is, of any EU

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country, they have a right to settle in the UK.

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You support those words to mark the problem is that you would not know

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who got citizenship. That could be a real fear, opening

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the door to people, you don't know who they are and they do.

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I think, more night, less heat. It is not imminent, it is not

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happening. We are whipping up a storm about the problem is not on

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the cards. Turkey would like to come in but it is absolutely cleared the

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three major countries in Europe do not want them.

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On the wider point you have just raised, we know there are millions

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of migrants entering the EU, we don't know who they are. When they

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are given citizenship. They are entering the Schengen area,

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not Britain. How many years does it take for

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someone to get citizenship? Between two and three. I think you

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will find it is seven or eight, if you look at the list.

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Not two years. But when they do, they will have a right to settle in

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the UK. We have no means of stopping them. If we vote to stay, we have no

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means of controlling our border in terms of which EU citizens have a

:09:59.:10:03.

right to settle in the UK. That is the fear many people have.

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Immigration has been something the Leave campaign will focus on.

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Remain on the economy. Another area opening up fierce debate is the NHS

:10:15.:10:20.

over the weekend. Simon Stephens, entered the fray in favour of

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Remain, while David Owen said the NHS would be better if Britain left.

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Let us listen to both of them. When Mark Carney says that the risk

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of a slowdown in economic growth, possibly a recession,

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if we end up exiting the EU, if Mark Carney is right,

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then that is a severe concern for the National Health Service,

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because it would be very dangerous if, at precisely the moment the NHS

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is going to need extra funding, actually, the economy goes

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into a tailspin, and that funding If there is any danger to the NHS,

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it is in staying in, with all the elements of the NHS

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which are now involved with the EU. For most of the first 20

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years of our membership, the Common Market, we had no

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involvement with the NHS at all. Now, the NHS procurement policy,

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the NHS competition policy is all impacting because we started

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to marketise the NHS It continued under the coalition

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with the Liberal Democrats and this And it has continued under this

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Conservative Government. Liam Fox, Simon Davies rejects the

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idea suggested by your side that extent would free up money that

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currently goes to Brussels. At best he said it would fund the NHS the 19

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days a year. Any extra funding would be helpful

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and Simon Stephens has been overseeing the biggest deficit in

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the NHS. Rather than involving himself in...

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The figures imply something different, you say. It wouldn't

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necessarily all go on the NHS. It is up to Government to decide how

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we spend that money, money is available. At the moment we are

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sending that to Brussels, ?10 billion a year we send net to

:12:20.:12:23.

Brussels. You don't think we could spend that money better ourselves on

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our own parities rather than handing it over to the bureaucrats in

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Brussels? What the Vote Leave campaign is

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doing is offering governments in the future far greater freedom.

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Simon Stephens may not think ?10 billion a year or a share of that

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would help. He is running a ?2.5 billion deficit in the NHS this

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year. If you would think that money would be better spent removing that

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deficit... You might think he would have a good

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idea of what is going on in the NHS. With the biggest deficit in the NHS

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has one he might be better spending his time on that and getting

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involved in the referendum campaign. It is a lot of money. Even if you

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take your version of the figures that would not be going to Brussels,

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it would be a lot the Government could decide and it would be up to

:13:10.:13:13.

then to decide to spend on different priorities and the NHS could be one.

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Simon Stephens, for Labour and the Conservatives, he has rubbished that

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figure. He said it amounts to about 19 days spending. Anyone looking at

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the NHS objectively can see that mental health, particularly, is in

:13:32.:13:34.

collapse. Can see there are real problems in primary care in our

:13:35.:13:41.

country. There are still lots of surgeries and GPs struggling.

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Against that context, he said quite rightly, if there is a recession,

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the NHS gets a serious cold, we don't benefit at all from leaving.

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That is completely reasonable. He is impartial, careful about his

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comments. A man who has worked for successive governments and knows.

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You are part of a party and Government which said consistently

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the NHS relies on a strong economy. Are you saying that is wrong?

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We have a strong economy and continue. I think we will whether we

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are in the EU or not. The point is we are sending a net ?10 billion a

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year to Brussels. That figure has been rubbished. That

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is the Treasury figure. That money would be better spent on

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our priorities in Britain and the priorities of the EU bureaucrats.

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Those cannot be guaranteed priorities.

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You don't understand my point. That is net.

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Would you be able to guaranteed to those areas with subsidies they

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would get the same money if we left the EU?

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But, what about the terrorists that would be imposed on our

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pharmaceuticals and companies as a consequence of leaving?

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That would bloat the NHS budget. I don't believe that, there is no

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logic. Before we go on talking about this,

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At the end of the show, Liam and David will give us

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David Cameron and George Osborne have been giving a joint press

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conference this morning as a DIY store in Eastleigh.

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So, what are the numbers from the Treasury analysis today?

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An economist looked at two scenarios.

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One where Britain experiences a shock, the second,

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And under both scenarios, here are the results.

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This is what happens if Britain leaves.

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The economy shrinks, the value of the pound falls,

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inflation rises, unemployment rises, real wages are hit, so too are house

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prices, and, as a result, Government borrowing goes up.

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The central conclusions of today's Treasury analysis are clear.

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A vote to leave will push our economy into a recession.

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Let's speak now to Gerard Lyons, he's one of the economists

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Do you accept that there will be a short-term shock if we leave the EU,

:16:30.:16:44.

as the Treasury says? I do believe there will be a shock. I

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as the Treasury says? I do believe same about two years ago. I

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as the Treasury says? I do believe detailed analysis. But the reality

:16:50.:16:52.

is that even though there might be a temporary shock, the outcome for the

:16:53.:16:56.

UK economy with Brexit is positive. But I find surprising about today's

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Treasury analysis is how pessimistic it is. They have assumed a far

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deeper and longer hit, and they have portrayed the figures in a bizarre

:17:07.:17:10.

way. They have said the hit to the economy is down 3.6% over two years.

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They have not pointed out whether that means the economy is bigger or

:17:15.:17:16.

smaller, because as we that means the economy is bigger or

:17:17.:17:21.

Budget a few months ago, the independent OBR said the economy

:17:22.:17:24.

would be 4.4% bigger after two years. So it is difficult to

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would be 4.4% bigger after two things in perspective. The Treasury

:17:30.:17:31.

has outlined three areas where they think the economy would be hit. One

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of the three, I agree with. There would be an uncertainty impact.

:17:37.:17:39.

Secondly, they said there would be a financial impact. But there you can

:17:40.:17:43.

turn the Treasury's argument on its head. They said the pound could be

:17:44.:17:50.

down up to 15%. When the Chancellor was talking about the march of the

:17:51.:17:54.

makers, he said the fall in the pound would help exporters, and a

:17:55.:17:57.

fall in the pound would basically bring it down to a level where a

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couple of years ago, the Chancellor said that was good for the economy.

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The third point of the Treasury is their assumptions about the

:18:05.:18:07.

so-called transition effect. They suggest that leaving the EU and

:18:08.:18:12.

embracing Brexit means we would both keep the regulations and keep up

:18:13.:18:16.

high tariff barriers. You can question that significantly. I agree

:18:17.:18:21.

with the fact that there might be a temporary short-term impact, but the

:18:22.:18:27.

Treasury's analysis is far too pessimistic. But you do agree that

:18:28.:18:31.

there would be a short-term shock. The question is, if you cannot

:18:32.:18:34.

quantify it and you don't know how long that shock will last, you can

:18:35.:18:37.

see how people might vote to stay in. You can quantify it and you can

:18:38.:18:43.

make assumptions. I did a detailed analysis a couple of years ago which

:18:44.:18:47.

also had independent forecasters look at it, and we found with a

:18:48.:18:51.

Brexit scenario, cutting tariff barriers and becoming global, I was

:18:52.:18:56.

looking at the London economy. Brexit added 900 jobs to London

:18:57.:19:03.

economy over two business cycles and an additional 200,000 jobs --

:19:04.:19:13.

900,000 jobs, compared to 200,000 jobs if we stayed in the EU. What is

:19:14.:19:18.

the evidence that you know better? I am saying that in every economic

:19:19.:19:22.

debate, there are two sides, and of the three points the Treasury has

:19:23.:19:27.

assumed, I agree with one of their assumptions about the uncertainty

:19:28.:19:29.

effect. But the financial effect would be positive. A weaker pound in

:19:30.:19:34.

a low inflation environment would allow interest rates to remain low.

:19:35.:19:41.

That is positive. I disagree with the assumptions the Treasury made

:19:42.:19:44.

about the likely policy scenario outside in terms of tariffs and

:19:45.:19:50.

regulations. Ahead of Black Wednesday back in 1992, I took a

:19:51.:19:54.

very different view and people criticised my view. I said the pound

:19:55.:19:59.

would leave the ERM and it would be good news for the economy. At that

:20:00.:20:02.

time, the Treasury said if the pound left the ERM, inflation would rise

:20:03.:20:09.

and the economy would shrink. Of course, the opposite happened. I am

:20:10.:20:13.

not afraid to have a different view. But I can understand where the

:20:14.:20:16.

Treasury is coming from in that there would be a shock. But I would

:20:17.:20:20.

argue that they are far too pessimistic and they have made some

:20:21.:20:24.

unrealistic assumptions. We are now joined by the Treasury minister,

:20:25.:20:33.

Harriet Baldwin. So, unrealistic and pessimistic assumptions from Gerard

:20:34.:20:35.

Lyons in terms of the Treasury analysis? Actually, Gerard Lyons is

:20:36.:20:42.

one of the eight economists that the Brexit campaign has found in the

:20:43.:20:45.

entire world to support the case that we would be better off if we

:20:46.:20:49.

left. He is saying he agreed that there would be uncertainty. And

:20:50.:20:56.

there is a great deal of economic analysis that shows that when there

:20:57.:21:00.

is uncertainty in the world, businesses put investment decisions

:21:01.:21:04.

on hold. They freeze their decisions to hire additional people, and it

:21:05.:21:10.

leads to an economic shock. We have spelt out today not just the

:21:11.:21:14.

uncertainty effect, but also the transition effect, the one where we

:21:15.:21:18.

are moving to a worst trade deal. We know that whatever we move to will

:21:19.:21:21.

be worse than what we currently have. That means the transition to

:21:22.:21:28.

being permanently poorer. People and businesses would have to adjust.

:21:29.:21:32.

Thirdly, there would be a financial shock. We have agreed on a cautious

:21:33.:21:46.

set of assumptions. What is the evidence that GDP could grow by 3.6%

:21:47.:21:51.

less than currently predicted, which goes up to 6% less if, as you claim,

:21:52.:21:57.

there would not be a deal for access to the single market for the UK if

:21:58.:22:00.

it left the EU, that house price growth would be hit by 10%, going up

:22:01.:22:06.

to 18% in the worst scenario? These figures sound like they have been

:22:07.:22:11.

plucked out of thin air. These are cautious assumptions. We have taken

:22:12.:22:16.

the core scenario, the OBR forecast if we remain, because the government

:22:17.:22:26.

wants us to remain. It is an important, permanent decision that

:22:27.:22:28.

the country is making and we think strongly that the country will be

:22:29.:22:34.

better off if we remain. But where is the evidence for these figures?

:22:35.:22:40.

Your viewers will be able to see the common-sense case that where there

:22:41.:22:44.

is uncertainty, we know the process of leaving is a two-year negotiation

:22:45.:22:48.

process. Businesses and consumers would not know what they would end

:22:49.:22:52.

up with, but we do know that all of the different trade arrangements,

:22:53.:23:00.

all of the different deals that have been cited, like Norway and Canada,

:23:01.:23:08.

are worse than what we have. But Britain is different and we are in a

:23:09.:23:12.

different situation to those countries. Are you saying people

:23:13.:23:17.

should rely on the Treasury for getting its analysis right with its

:23:18.:23:20.

track record? There are lots of other sources of analysis on this,

:23:21.:23:26.

whether it is the IMF, the OECD, or a range of different academics from

:23:27.:23:30.

different universities or whether it is our own Bank of England. There

:23:31.:23:35.

has been a huge number of different estimates and they have all agreed

:23:36.:23:38.

that the range of possible shocks to the economy would be between bad to

:23:39.:23:43.

very bad. You have just heard Brexit's an economist saying there

:23:44.:23:50.

would be a short-term shock. We say 500,000 jobs fewer would exist in

:23:51.:23:55.

the economy during a two-year period and interest rates would go up for

:23:56.:24:00.

people who want to borrow money. That is wholeheartedly bad for the

:24:01.:24:04.

British economy. You heard Gerard Lyons saying he agreed that there

:24:05.:24:08.

would be some shock to the economy and some uncertainty, but that that

:24:09.:24:12.

would correct. Bearing in mind that this is a vote that is supposed to

:24:13.:24:16.

settle the matter for regeneration, are you asking people to base their

:24:17.:24:21.

vote on the future of the UK's relationship with the EU on what

:24:22.:24:26.

could happen over a two-year period rather than what might happen in a

:24:27.:24:31.

30 year period? The UK Government thinks we will be better off not

:24:32.:24:34.

only in the short term, but also in the long term. That is because the

:24:35.:24:39.

single market is the gold standard of trade agreements.

:24:40.:24:55.

The Leave campaigners have said they don't want to be in the single

:24:56.:25:00.

market. They have not been clear about what kind of trade arrangement

:25:01.:25:04.

they would see. All we can say is that all other trade arrangement are

:25:05.:25:08.

worse than the current arrangement. The single market gives businesses

:25:09.:25:13.

in this country access to 500 million consumers. Let's look at one

:25:14.:25:17.

of the predictions. Carolyn Fairbairn of the CBI says the claim

:25:18.:25:21.

that families would be better off if we stay in the EU are not accurate.

:25:22.:25:26.

She says that is not a correct figure that she would use. How

:25:27.:25:28.

confident can people be figure that she would use. How

:25:29.:25:32.

other figures? I think figure that she would use. How

:25:33.:25:38.

economic expertise people listen to, the UK would be economically worse

:25:39.:25:45.

off. Businesses and individuals would be worse off. Is accuracy

:25:46.:25:48.

important in would be worse off. Is accuracy

:25:49.:25:56.

are, it is hard for us in the Treasury to be able to compare what

:25:57.:25:58.

is being Treasury to be able to compare what

:25:59.:26:01.

They can't agree amongst themselves what they would like to have. But we

:26:02.:26:05.

do know the single market is what they would like to have. But we

:26:06.:26:11.

over the last decade, we have had ?1 billion

:26:12.:26:13.

over the last decade, we have had ?1 country in foreign direct investment

:26:14.:26:18.

that creates jobs. And it is thanks to access to the single market. Let

:26:19.:26:24.

me bring in Liam Fox. There is an admission now I quite a few of those

:26:25.:26:28.

leavers on your side that there would be a short-term shock. Why

:26:29.:26:32.

should this country expose itself to a short-term economic shock, which

:26:33.:26:37.

we don't know how long it would last or how deep it would be, just to

:26:38.:26:43.

we don't know how long it would last come out of the EU? There will

:26:44.:26:45.

obviously be a period of uncertainty, during which time the

:26:46.:26:48.

government will have to negotiate the best terms for the UK. The

:26:49.:26:57.

Treasury have not been consistent. In 1992, they said a collapsing

:26:58.:26:58.

market confidence would bring a In 1992, they said a collapsing

:26:59.:27:02.

damaging rise in interest rates. If we cut loose from the ERM, the pound

:27:03.:27:06.

will dive. What did happen after we left the ERM? Interest rates came

:27:07.:27:15.

way down, and inflation was stable. But interest rates shot up in the

:27:16.:27:18.

immediate aftermath. Before we left the ERM, we had 18% interest rates.

:27:19.:27:25.

It was the beginning of growth in our economy. But there was a shock.

:27:26.:27:32.

There was a short-term period of uncertainty, but if we vote to leave

:27:33.:27:38.

on the 23rd of June, we are likely not to actually leave until 2019.

:27:39.:27:43.

The Treasury assumption is that the government is unable to get any

:27:44.:27:47.

trade deals and there are no other factors that attract business to

:27:48.:27:51.

Britain other than being in the EU, which is wrong. I am disappointed to

:27:52.:27:59.

see my colleagues spouting a misused Treasury model. We normally get a

:28:00.:28:06.

central prediction. We get a downside prediction and an upside.

:28:07.:28:10.

All we are getting here is the downside. There is no attempt to

:28:11.:28:14.

look at whether there might be benefits. Let me put that to

:28:15.:28:19.

Harriet. You would usually have a variety of scenarios, best case,

:28:20.:28:25.

worst case. In this case, it is bad or worse. Yes. Because the central

:28:26.:28:31.

assumption is that the government wants us to remain for the good of

:28:32.:28:36.

the economy. Then we compare all the other trade arrangements to that,

:28:37.:28:41.

and we know that they go from worse to very much worse. So we have

:28:42.:28:46.

chosen a cautious analysis of how bad things could be. There is a

:28:47.:28:51.

severe shock scenario which is considerably worse than the one you

:28:52.:28:58.

are highlighting. This is a cautious analysis about the loss of jobs and

:28:59.:29:05.

the uncertainty that could occur if we were rash enough to do a DIY

:29:06.:29:11.

recession. Liam Fox, on the economic arguments, do you agree that you

:29:12.:29:14.

don't have many economists or economic institutions batting for

:29:15.:29:23.

you when it comes to having statistics that would support your

:29:24.:29:26.

claims of being better off outside the EU? When people are against

:29:27.:29:32.

840,000 jobs lost in two years according to the Chancellor, youth

:29:33.:29:37.

unemployed up by 10%... These are made up numbers. Well, can you say

:29:38.:29:42.

that when the Treasury has put together these numbers? Well, they

:29:43.:29:48.

are made up on assumptions. They are not facts. And your facts are? I

:29:49.:29:56.

think this referendum is about getting control of our laws and

:29:57.:30:01.

borders. The assumption that the only way to trade for Britain's

:30:02.:30:05.

prosperity is inside the European Union, how a single biggest trading

:30:06.:30:11.

partner is the US. We operate under WTO rules with the US. Why is that a

:30:12.:30:16.

hindrance to the UK economy? Are there no economic risks to staying

:30:17.:30:21.

in the EU, Harriet? Bearing in mind that we have had a long recession,

:30:22.:30:24.

the treatment of Greece has been seen as very damaging by many within

:30:25.:30:29.

the EU. Are you saying it is plain sailing if we stay within the EU? I

:30:30.:30:33.

think what we have within the EU is the best of both worlds. We don't

:30:34.:30:37.

have the euro, which is clearly causing a lot of difficulties, you

:30:38.:30:42.

mentioned Greece. It has been difficult for many countries in the

:30:43.:30:46.

southern Mediterranean. So we don't have that, and we do have access to

:30:47.:30:52.

the single market, which is 500 million customers, tariff free, for

:30:53.:30:56.

our UK economy. So we have the best of both worlds in terms of the

:30:57.:31:01.

economic arrangements. We will not be drawn into any Eurozone bailouts.

:31:02.:31:08.

It is a very good outcome, and none of the alternatives, particularly

:31:09.:31:12.

the WTO arrangements, would create anything other than a huge economic

:31:13.:31:20.

crisis, with no agreement from the leavers as to what they want.

:31:21.:31:28.

Is it edifying, and correct for the Treasury that it is coming out so

:31:29.:31:35.

firmly on one side of the debate? I am so sorry, I am going to ask David

:31:36.:31:40.

Lammy. It would be extraordinary if the

:31:41.:31:44.

Treasury of the country did not do its best to come to a measured view.

:31:45.:31:49.

Liam concedes that there would be uncertainty. The question for the

:31:50.:31:53.

British public, at a time when there are more northern young people

:31:54.:31:57.

coming to London because there aren't jobs in the north, when

:31:58.:32:04.

growth is 0.4%, where public borrowing was ?91 billion last year.

:32:05.:32:09.

The economy is fragile. Of course, if you exited, there would be a

:32:10.:32:13.

shock and there are consequences. They have laid back out. Liam has

:32:14.:32:17.

said there is a period of uncertainty.

:32:18.:32:20.

If you are unemployed comic young, in the north of Britain,

:32:21.:32:24.

manufacturing sluggish, it is not fine, it is deeply worrying. There

:32:25.:32:29.

is a risk attached. It would be the have-nots hit

:32:30.:32:32.

hardest. I do not believe that.

:32:33.:32:38.

The collapse in the European economy as a result of the euro is causing

:32:39.:32:43.

ever increasing numbers of young Europeans particularly from the

:32:44.:32:47.

south to migrate to the UK. And our growth? Growth has been

:32:48.:32:54.

great. Clearly, our growth is strong, the eurozone is very weak.

:32:55.:32:57.

As long as there is free movement there will be increasing numbers

:32:58.:33:02.

coming to the UK. It is the same issue, the collapse of the euro zone

:33:03.:33:07.

economy. The very low levels of growth, massive and implement, 50%

:33:08.:33:13.

of young Spaniards unemployed. Most of them came, the biggest numbers,

:33:14.:33:18.

to the UK. We are not immune. Our budgetary

:33:19.:33:23.

contribution is dependent on how our economy is growing in relation to

:33:24.:33:25.

the rest of the EU. The more of British taxpayers's

:33:26.:33:33.

money will go to Brussels. On the issue of Turkey, are you

:33:34.:33:39.

clear about written using its veto if the issue of Turkey, Turkish

:33:40.:33:45.

accession, came up. Certainly it would if it came up

:33:46.:33:50.

accession, came up. today. There are 27 other countries

:33:51.:33:54.

who think along those lines. I grew up in Cyprus and ancestors Cyprus

:33:55.:33:59.

will veto Turkish membership. I don't think that is an issue likely

:34:00.:34:05.

to arise in any of our lifetimes. You think it is as far away as that.

:34:06.:34:10.

British foreign policy is clear it is something that should be and

:34:11.:34:14.

would be considered? British foreign policy for a number

:34:15.:34:17.

of decades has been to welcome countries that wanted to come,

:34:18.:34:23.

liberal, open democracies with free press, mature economies, into better

:34:24.:34:29.

trading arrangements. I think that has been something that has enhanced

:34:30.:34:35.

economic progress across the continent and social progress. But

:34:36.:34:39.

it is clear to everyone not only do we have a veto in

:34:40.:34:43.

it is clear to everyone not only do membership, but lots of other

:34:44.:34:43.

countries do. membership, but lots of other

:34:44.:34:47.

They are nowhere near ready. Should David Cameron stop

:34:48.:34:50.

They are nowhere near ready. Should about how he would welcome Turkish

:34:51.:34:52.

accession? It is clear this has been brought

:34:53.:34:57.

into the campaign discussions as the reddest of red herrings.

:34:58.:34:59.

into the campaign discussions as the Lammy was saying is correct, the

:35:00.:35:02.

decision on the 23rd of June is Lammy was saying is correct, the

:35:03.:35:07.

in the UK. We have published an analysis showing there would be

:35:08.:35:12.

500,000 job losses, many across the regions. That

:35:13.:35:17.

500,000 job losses, many across the will vote to Remain.

:35:18.:35:21.

Speaking on the half of the Government, as a Government

:35:22.:35:23.

minister, she Government, as a Government

:35:24.:35:27.

Turkish accession today. Government, as a Government

:35:28.:35:30.

It is a hypothetical question, as you know. They

:35:31.:35:31.

It is a hypothetical question, as secured one out of

:35:32.:35:38.

It is a hypothetical question, as you know, it is not an issue even on

:35:39.:35:41.

the table. Thank you very much.

:35:42.:35:47.

As you can probably tell, it's going to be a big week

:35:48.:35:50.

of the highlights, and a few other stories that might

:35:51.:35:56.

This campaign's already got more buses than Piccadilly Circus.

:35:57.:35:58.

But, today, two more are revving their engines.

:35:59.:36:00.

Nigel Farage hops aboard the Ukip referendum bus.

:36:01.:36:02.

And comedian Eddie Izzard takes to the road in support

:36:03.:36:04.

MPs will continue to debate last week's Queen's Speech.

:36:05.:36:07.

And, on Tuesday, they'll be talking about the controversial subjects

:36:08.:36:10.

On Wednesday, at Stormont, new ministers are expected to be

:36:11.:36:13.

appointed to the Northern Ireland Assembly, following the elections

:36:14.:36:15.

And Business Secretary Sajid Javid is expected to be in Mumbai,

:36:16.:36:21.

ahead of a board meeting where we may find out more

:36:22.:36:23.

about the potential buyers for Tata Steel and its

:36:24.:36:25.

On Thursday, the BBC's first referendum debate gets underway,

:36:26.:36:31.

with Victoria Derbyshire hosting an event for younger

:36:32.:36:33.

And, on Friday, restrictions come into force preventing the Government

:36:34.:36:39.

It's known as purdah, and means big announcements,

:36:40.:36:43.

like today's warning from the Treasury,

:36:44.:36:44.

We're joined now by Lucy Fisher from The Times, and Jason Groves

:36:45.:36:53.

We think they may be the last political journalists in Westminster

:36:54.:36:56.

not to be sent away on a battle bus of some description!

:36:57.:37:02.

They had a lucky escape. What impact will purge have? It will

:37:03.:37:12.

be a very interesting time. The Government have planned for this. We

:37:13.:37:17.

have seen the main cost benefit analyses come out like the Treasury

:37:18.:37:21.

document, a week before this starts. The effects will last. Now these

:37:22.:37:26.

figures are out, we will be talking about them into that period.

:37:27.:37:32.

Will we notice any real difference? In the campaign, we will. Far fewer

:37:33.:37:36.

of these documents. The reason we have seen this Oleg is because the

:37:37.:37:41.

postal ballots go out on Friday. Both sides are clear these documents

:37:42.:37:46.

do have a short-term impact on the poles and are hoping to make the

:37:47.:37:48.

most it. Let us talk about Tory infighting,

:37:49.:37:53.

Liam Fox and Harrods Baldwin representing different sides of the

:37:54.:37:57.

argument. Lucy, is it getting difficult to see

:37:58.:38:02.

that reconciliation in a cabinet of all the talents being put together

:38:03.:38:08.

after 23rd of June. If we presume that Remain wins,

:38:09.:38:14.

because if Brexit wins I don't think Cameron and Osborne won't survive.

:38:15.:38:19.

It will be difficult to see how the Conservative Party comes back

:38:20.:38:21.

together. There are two issues. The first is

:38:22.:38:26.

the cabinet. The many ministers on the pro-Brexit site, it is hard for

:38:27.:38:31.

us to see a way back. Penny Morduant suggested the Prime Minister needs

:38:32.:38:36.

to build trust with voters after the Panama papers and concerns about his

:38:37.:38:41.

finances. It is difficult to see how she will survive.

:38:42.:38:45.

The Government will need a clear at reshuffle. Some who have been loyal

:38:46.:38:50.

on the Brexit side like Chris Grayling who hasn't really

:38:51.:38:53.

criticised Government policy, he is likely to remain.

:38:54.:38:58.

On the second issue, policy issues will need to reunite people. Like

:38:59.:39:06.

Trident. Or keep to uncontroversial policies

:39:07.:39:12.

like that is in the Queen's Speech. David Cameron has said it would be

:39:13.:39:17.

an opportunity post June the 23rd, to bring together both sides. You

:39:18.:39:21.

would need to give some big jobs if Remain were to win, to those who had

:39:22.:39:27.

campaigned to leave? If anything, Lucy is optimistic

:39:28.:39:30.

about what will happen after June 23.

:39:31.:39:35.

It will be extraordinarily difficult to bring the party back together. It

:39:36.:39:40.

is quite possible the Prime Minister will face a vote of no confidence

:39:41.:39:44.

from his own MPs. I think he would win that. But he will have to face

:39:45.:39:49.

the fact 80 of them want him gone. With a majority of 12, it is

:39:50.:39:54.

difficult to do anything even vaguely controversial.

:39:55.:39:58.

He will try to patch things up by giving people like Boris Johnson a

:39:59.:40:01.

good job. I think his prospects for governing

:40:02.:40:06.

in the longer term are going to be damaged.

:40:07.:40:10.

What about the papers? In terms of finding it difficult to decide which

:40:11.:40:13.

way to go? I think we know which way most

:40:14.:40:19.

papers fall today. A new Reuters Institute study showing 45% of

:40:20.:40:25.

articles in the last two months have been for Brexit, 27 cents for

:40:26.:40:27.

Remain. It is not clear from the methodology

:40:28.:40:31.

how that works. The way the papers are covering it

:40:32.:40:35.

is interesting. The leading world figures,

:40:36.:40:39.

institutions, are on one side, Remain, largely.

:40:40.:40:44.

For the Daily Mail, the Times newspaper, we have two slightly

:40:45.:40:48.

adjust to that bias towards the biggest Jewish and is being behind

:40:49.:40:53.

Remain, to give some providence to the Brexit debate. We need to do our

:40:54.:41:01.

fact checks. Thank you to both of you.

:41:02.:41:03.

Now, yesterday, the Prime Minister said the Conservative Party had "not

:41:04.:41:06.

done anything wrong" over its expenses at last

:41:07.:41:08.

may have been "mis-declared" or "left out".

:41:09.:41:12.

A number of police forces are investigating whether tens

:41:13.:41:14.

of thousands of pounds spent campaigning in 29 marginal seats

:41:15.:41:17.

should have been declared locally rather than centrally.

:41:18.:41:19.

I am very confident that the Conservative Party

:41:20.:41:30.

is gripping this with the chairman, Andrew Feldman.

:41:31.:41:34.

Lots of political parties have these bus tours.

:41:35.:41:37.

Buses that go around different constituencies, and that

:41:38.:41:39.

But this is all now in conversation with the electoral commission

:41:40.:41:44.

and these other investigations, so we should let that

:41:45.:41:46.

But I'm confident the idea of a bus that is a national bus that

:41:47.:41:50.

visits constituences, the Labour Party has done that,

:41:51.:41:52.

Well, yesterday, the SNP MP Pete Wishart wrote

:41:53.:41:58.

to the Metropolitan Police, to call for a wider investigation

:41:59.:42:01.

into whether the Conservatives attempted to subvert

:42:02.:42:02.

the Representation Of The People Act.

:42:03.:42:04.

And Pete Wishart joins us now from Dundee.

:42:05.:42:12.

There are already ten separate investigations into the Conservative

:42:13.:42:20.

Party's election expenses, what is the point of another one?

:42:21.:42:24.

Those ten investigations are right and proper and will take their due

:42:25.:42:28.

course. What I have asked for is the

:42:29.:42:32.

Conservative Party as a national outfit to be investigated by the

:42:33.:42:36.

Metropolitan Police. We know this was organised, these battle buses,

:42:37.:42:45.

accommodation expenses, what we have to see if if there was a systematic

:42:46.:42:54.

attempt to try to pass off candidate is the future as national

:42:55.:42:58.

expenditure. The Prime Minister has conceded this. He tried to say this

:42:59.:43:02.

was a minor, trifling issue of something left out. We are talking

:43:03.:43:08.

about the integrity of an electoral system to make sure elections are

:43:09.:43:15.

fair. It looks like because of the party have broken those laws.

:43:16.:43:18.

There is some admission of administrative error which is not

:43:19.:43:23.

the same as what you are suggesting, a deliberate intent. Do you not have

:43:24.:43:29.

confidence in the police investigations because they will be

:43:30.:43:35.

looking at exactly that? The current police investigations

:43:36.:43:40.

will be looking at local issues, CAD itched expenditure in particular

:43:41.:43:43.

constituencies. I want something different, for the Conservative

:43:44.:43:48.

Party to be looked at. It is clear from the Prime Minister yesterday

:43:49.:43:53.

that the law was not adhered to. This is not an optional extra, this

:43:54.:43:59.

is a fundamental exercise in ensuring the integrity of our

:44:00.:44:03.

elections. Something has definitely gone on. There is a concession from

:44:04.:44:08.

the Conservative Party. Let us leave the police to look at this

:44:09.:44:10.

the Conservative Party. Let us leave Do you know what form the

:44:11.:44:14.

investigation will take? I wrote to them yesterday.

:44:15.:44:21.

investigation will take? Not yet. We are looking at several

:44:22.:44:27.

cases. I think this is on a par with the cash for honours which blighted

:44:28.:44:31.

the Tony Blair Government. An attempt to dismiss casually the way

:44:32.:44:35.

the law should be applied in these attempt to dismiss casually the way

:44:36.:44:38.

things. This has been bubbling away for such a long time. I

:44:39.:44:41.

things. This has been bubbling away the statements from the Government

:44:42.:44:45.

and we have heard nothing. Let us put that. Similar to a cash

:44:46.:44:53.

for honours scandal. We are talking about a large number of marginal

:44:54.:44:56.

seats. We don't know about a large number of marginal

:44:57.:45:00.

might or might not have changed that result. The

:45:01.:45:03.

might or might not have changed that reason. If it is found the party has

:45:04.:45:08.

overspent or declared local spending at a national level in order to push

:45:09.:45:12.

their campaign locally, what would you say?

:45:13.:45:13.

The party was always clear you say?

:45:14.:45:17.

basic issue it believed it was operating from the rules and having

:45:18.:45:20.

a national bus operating from the rules and having

:45:21.:45:25.

promoting candidates in those constituencies, promoting the

:45:26.:45:29.

Government's Central case. The electoral commission is looking at.

:45:30.:45:34.

There are police force is looking into individual candidates and their

:45:35.:45:40.

returns come in each individual is responsible for that. The

:45:41.:45:42.

Metropolitan Police have better things to do dealing with crime than

:45:43.:45:47.

an SNP political stunt given these investigations are underway.

:45:48.:45:54.

You don't think it is important for the Metropolitan Police to pursue?

:45:55.:46:00.

It is important that these investigations take their course.

:46:01.:46:06.

Except that they are focusing on whether expenses came under the

:46:07.:46:10.

national battle bus. There is also a question mark over accommodation

:46:11.:46:15.

costs that could have been put under the national costings total. That

:46:16.:46:19.

would also be against the rules. That is what the Metropolitan Police

:46:20.:46:23.

would look at, whether it was centrally controlled in terms of

:46:24.:46:26.

directing expenses locally to the national budget. The Conservative

:46:27.:46:30.

Party admitted that those figures should have been declared. They have

:46:31.:46:36.

gone to the electoral commission and the electoral commission will make a

:46:37.:46:39.

judgment on that and whether rules were infringed. In fact, the actual

:46:40.:46:43.

number would not have made difference to the overall accounts.

:46:44.:46:47.

But why, when these investigations are going on, involve the

:46:48.:46:57.

Metropolitan Police? It is a waste of money and a political stunt. I

:46:58.:47:00.

will come back to you in a moment, Pete Wishart. But first, isn't it

:47:01.:47:08.

always the case that parties blur the distinction between what is

:47:09.:47:13.

local and what is centralised spending in elections? No. Actually,

:47:14.:47:21.

we have really hard rules about election expenses. And it is because

:47:22.:47:25.

we do not want political parties buying elections, spending billions

:47:26.:47:31.

like we see in the United States. If you look at the last general

:47:32.:47:35.

election result, the real conversation was the Lib Dem

:47:36.:47:39.

collapse. If you look at these marginals, many in the south-west,

:47:40.:47:44.

the accusation is that these elections were stolen. This is a

:47:45.:47:48.

very serious inquiry. It should have much more discussion in the

:47:49.:47:52.

Westminster village. Yes, of course the Met should look at what went on.

:47:53.:47:58.

And what about labour battle buses? Should the police investigate

:47:59.:48:04.

whether Labour party used a battle bus? At the moment, there is no

:48:05.:48:10.

suggestion of labour fraud. There is a suggestion in 29 seats that you

:48:11.:48:18.

"mis-declared" your spending. That is a serious act queues Asian and it

:48:19.:48:25.

would go to the Conservatives -- that is a serious accusation. They

:48:26.:48:35.

are allegations. Before we let you go, these accusations fly on all

:48:36.:48:42.

parties. It has been alleged that Nicola Sturgeon's helicopter tour

:48:43.:48:46.

included some local campaigning. Are you confident that the costs were

:48:47.:48:52.

properly declared? Listen, I want David Cameron to come to Scotland...

:48:53.:48:56.

Are you confident it was properly declared? They're always what if

:48:57.:49:02.

questions. This is about the fact that the Conservatives bust loads of

:49:03.:49:08.

conservative actors in and tried to pass that off as local spending. The

:49:09.:49:14.

cavalier attitude of Liam Fox and the Conservative Party on this, I

:49:15.:49:18.

think, does a great disservice to the many people throughout this

:49:19.:49:23.

country who are concerned about this, who are looking at

:49:24.:49:27.

Conservative Brexit election results and think they might have been

:49:28.:49:34.

bought. -- now looking at Conservative election results and

:49:35.:49:35.

think they might have been bought. Now to Austria, where presidential

:49:36.:49:37.

elections are on a knife-edge. The job is mainly a ceremonial one,

:49:38.:49:40.

but the contest is being closely watched because it could see

:49:41.:49:43.

the election of the EU's All the direct votes have been

:49:44.:49:45.

counted in the contest between Norbert Hofer

:49:46.:49:49.

of the far-right Freedom Party and Alexander Van Der Bellen,

:49:50.:49:51.

the former leader It now rests on the hundreds

:49:52.:49:53.

of thousands of postal votes, the result of which will be

:49:54.:49:56.

announced his evening. Let's get the latest

:49:57.:49:58.

from our correspondent What is the latest? We are still

:49:59.:50:11.

waiting for those postal votes to be counted. Austria is waiting to see

:50:12.:50:16.

who the next incumbent will be of the presidential palace behind me.

:50:17.:50:23.

Whatever the result, whether it be president turns out to be the far

:50:24.:50:26.

right candidate Norbert Hofer or Alexander Van Der Bellen of the

:50:27.:50:31.

Green Party, this vote has shown how deeply split Austria is. Those who

:50:32.:50:38.

feel they want to go in a more nationalist and Eurosceptic

:50:39.:50:41.

direction, people who are worried about the influx of migrants because

:50:42.:50:44.

of the migrant crisis, and those who support the green candidate, who say

:50:45.:50:50.

they want to be more open to Europe, they want a more federal system and

:50:51.:50:57.

our sympathies are with the migrants who have come in. On Norbert Hofer,

:50:58.:51:02.

you talked about in nationalist platform. Has that made up his

:51:03.:51:09.

campaign platform? Is that what he has been talking about? Very much

:51:10.:51:13.

so, but it is not just about the migrant crisis. A lot of observers

:51:14.:51:20.

here say it is about the failure of the centre, the and parties that

:51:21.:51:25.

have dominated politics here for many decades. Their messages are not

:51:26.:51:31.

reverberating with the population any more. There has been a lot of

:51:32.:51:38.

concern about what people see as failure to move forward on key

:51:39.:51:43.

reforms here, and there is also a debate about what it means to be

:51:44.:51:58.

part of Europe. Go on. This could be a signal for the rest of Europe,

:51:59.:52:02.

because there are other populist nationalist movements that are

:52:03.:52:10.

watching this result closely. No doubt the BBC will report on that

:52:11.:52:12.

result later. Now, have you heard

:52:13.:52:14.

of an iceberg home? It's not a house where the central

:52:15.:52:16.

heating isn't working, but the trend in certain

:52:17.:52:19.

parts of the country - but particularly in the capital -

:52:20.:52:21.

for extending homes under the ground, with the extra space

:52:22.:52:24.

used for private cinemas, Not everyone's a fan,

:52:25.:52:26.

including the journalist I have lived in London's

:52:27.:52:29.

Notting Hill, famous for its communal gardens,

:52:30.:52:47.

ice cream coloured stucco terraces, and celebrity residents

:52:48.:52:51.

like Richard Curtis and, most recently, my newest neighbour,

:52:52.:52:55.

Hugh Grant, for three decades. Many of the houses are

:52:56.:53:03.

delicate, Jerry-built, But not even media moguls' mansions

:53:04.:53:08.

are big enough for some. The Royal Borough Of Kensington

:53:09.:53:11.

And Chelsea receives hundreds in my book, to transform properties

:53:12.:53:16.

like this into bigger, deeper houses, by excavating

:53:17.:53:19.

deep underground, sometimes increasing the number

:53:20.:53:23.

of floors by two or three storeys. We are living in the age

:53:24.:53:27.

of the double or triple basement, the "iceberg house",

:53:28.:53:33.

and the neighbours from hell. I don't blame residents who want

:53:34.:53:35.

to make the most of their space, and live in airless,

:53:36.:53:38.

subterranean lairs like trolls. But there is a world of difference

:53:39.:53:44.

in a householder making improvements or creating an extra room,

:53:45.:53:47.

than there is in a property owner creating an iceberg house

:53:48.:53:50.

where there is more below These houses are simply quite

:53:51.:53:53.

unsuitable for deep, subterranean excavations,

:53:54.:54:02.

and all the attendant noise, traffic movements, disruption,

:54:03.:54:05.

structural damage, and environmental impacts they cause for up to years

:54:06.:54:10.

at a time. Of course, home owners should

:54:11.:54:14.

have the right to do what they want, And they were framed over 100 years

:54:15.:54:17.

ago, when nobody even thought This means councils

:54:18.:54:27.

are powerless to refuse repeated It is time for a national planning

:54:28.:54:32.

framework to ban almost all deep excavation in built-up areas,

:54:33.:54:42.

otherwise this is just going to be # Our house, in the

:54:43.:54:46.

middle of our street.# And Rachel Johnson joins

:54:47.:54:55.

us here in the studio. Would you agree that this is a

:54:56.:55:08.

fairly niche issue? Not really. They're almost 4500 of these

:55:09.:55:11.

basements planned or being dug They're almost 4500 of these

:55:12.:55:16.

London, which is a lot, especially if one is next door to you. How

:55:17.:55:21.

disruptive is it? Incredibly disruptive. As you saw in the little

:55:22.:55:26.

piece I did, opposite my house there is a basement that is being dug

:55:27.:55:29.

underneath the middle of the street and it has been going on for two

:55:30.:55:34.

years so far. Sadiq Khan, though, has said he is going to row back on

:55:35.:55:39.

this. Various bills have been put through the Lords, but nothing has

:55:40.:55:44.

happened. You talk of setting up a national framework. Is that

:55:45.:55:47.

necessary, or do you think you could deal with it locally with issues

:55:48.:55:51.

where it is really afflicting one part of the country? I would like to

:55:52.:55:56.

see the presumption being against anything that goes below one story.

:55:57.:56:01.

It is not only incredibly disruptive, it is also structurally

:56:02.:56:06.

very dodgy, because it means you are honeycomb in the subsoil. The

:56:07.:56:10.

average depth of Ireland and foundation is something like 12

:56:11.:56:16.

inches, nothing. -- the average depth of a London foundation. Sorry

:56:17.:56:20.

to be so boring, but you don't know what you are doing in terms of

:56:21.:56:24.

sewerage and getting other services disrupted. Do you have any sympathy

:56:25.:56:31.

for Rachel's pursuit of this issue? I think there is a tension here

:56:32.:56:34.

between the right of individuals to do what they like with their own

:56:35.:56:38.

property, against the impact on public utility. And that needs to be

:56:39.:56:43.

resolved. There need to be clear guidelines on that and if we don't

:56:44.:56:46.

have guidelines in our planning law, because it was never considered when

:56:47.:56:50.

those laws were being introduced, they do need to be updated. We need

:56:51.:56:54.

to have clarity so that people know where they are and so that people

:56:55.:56:58.

who might want to invest in building a big basement know where they would

:56:59.:57:04.

stand, as do the neighbours. So if clarity is required, we should have

:57:05.:57:09.

it. But our iceberg home is a big problem in your constituency? It has

:57:10.:57:19.

never, ever come up in Tottenham! But I do agree with Rachel that

:57:20.:57:25.

there is a collective hole. You cannot just have people willy-nilly

:57:26.:57:30.

digging down. This is a problem of the super wealthy. It is a problem

:57:31.:57:34.

sometimes of the overseas buyers in the London market. So it does need

:57:35.:57:38.

regulation, but it is not number one. Is it also a problem of people

:57:39.:57:43.

in London not being able to afford to move, because it is cheaper to

:57:44.:57:49.

stay where you are, and is that a fault of government policy? I don't

:57:50.:57:54.

think people in Kensington who are building two floors down have a big

:57:55.:57:58.

problem with their family incomes. You may be right, but it is an

:57:59.:58:02.

issue. If people are not moving, do you blame things like the changes to

:58:03.:58:06.

stamp duty? They have also made it easier to begin prudence on your

:58:07.:58:10.

house. So there are two reasons not to move, higher stamp duty, and I

:58:11.:58:16.

have relaxed the laws surrounding things like extensions and

:58:17.:58:19.

basements. I want to give credit to Kensington and Chelsea. Then number

:58:20.:58:21.

of applications has halved since they limited development is to only

:58:22.:58:27.

one for underground. There was one guy next to the French ambassador

:58:28.:58:31.

who was doing a 6-storey extension with the carousel for his vintage

:58:32.:58:37.

Ferraris. We can only dream! Thank you for coming in.

:58:38.:58:39.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:40.:58:42.

The question was who, according to this morning's Times,

:58:43.:58:45.

Tony Blair, Steve Hilton, Raul Castro or Ed Miliband? What do you

:58:46.:58:57.

think? I am going with Ed Miliband. You might be right. Do you think

:58:58.:59:02.

that is a good idea? Ed Miliband, who lost the last election, helping

:59:03.:59:08.

Jeremy Corbyn? Give the guy a job. He is talented, why not? What is

:59:09.:59:13.

your reaction? I think Jeremy Corbyn can't get enough advisers.

:59:14.:59:17.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:59:18.:59:22.

I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories

:59:23.:59:25.

People were afraid of her political convictions -

:59:26.:59:38.

Dear Mama, last night we had nearly four inches of rain.

:59:39.:59:43.

People can be seen going about fetching bread and other things

:59:44.:59:47.

on floating sofas or wooden bedsteads.

:59:48.:59:51.

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