01/07/2016 Daily Politics

Fresh from triggering Boris Johnson's departure

from the Conservative leadership race, Michael Gove sets out his case

The Justice Secretary is due to launch his campaign in the next

And with the full field of five candidates now fighting for votes

amongst Conservative MPs, we'll assess their chances ahead

Jeremy Corbyn insists he's not going anywhere

and there's no sign, yet, of a concrete challenge

We'll assess what happens next in the Labour Party's civil war.

All that in the next half hour and with us for the whole

of the programme today, the Sun's political editor

Tom Newton Dunn, and the Guardian columnist Zoe Williams.

The Conservative leadership battle is turning into an episode

Yesterday morning we were getting ready for Boris Johnson

to make his move to be the Capo di Capo with sidekick Andrea Leadsom

But all that changed when Michael Gove made his move

and whacked Boris by running himself, saying that "Boris cannot

provide the leadership or build the team

Andrea Leadsom then announced she was going for the top job,

leaving Boris to look at the numbers and decide there wasn't

Now there are five declared candidates, with Gove and Leadsom

joined by Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox and the current favourite,

But the plan is a series of votes beginning next Tuesday until there

Then all Conservative Party members across the country get to vote

with a new boss taking charge by the 9th of September.

And they will also be our Prime Minister.

In the last half an hour, Boris Johnson was asked by reporters

as he left home about Michael Gove's decision to stand for

I cannot, unfortunately, get on with doing what I wanted

to do so it will be up to somebody else now.

Do you have any regrets about campaigning for Leave?

No, I think it will be great for our country and we

I think everybody needs to take advantage of what I think will be

That was Boris Johnson walking, we are not sure where that he was

walking a bit of mumbling, we could not catch all of it. We are hearing

that some Conservative ministers are now pressing Michael Gove to

withdraw which would be interesting since it was only on yesterday

morning that he announced he was standing. They want to rally round

Theresa May so that she wins by a huge amount and that kind of

determined it. If that happens, don't ask me! What I can take it

that he will be speaking after Boris Johnson withdrew yesterday, I doubt

he will do. Where are we? I'm hamstrung by not understanding the

Conservative psyche. It doesn't help! It is baffling. If Michael

Gove were to withdraw and leave it open for Theresa May, they still

have 2% two names to the party members. And then the other is what,

Liam Fox? That is technically right but they are a bit better at making

it up as they go along than Labour. If Theresa May was to emerge from a

first or second ballot is a clear front runner, there would be

pressure on the other is to stand down. They would call the

consistency chairman around the country. None of this may happen but

that is the kind of world we are in. I don't buy it. You are right that

Theresa May will top the ballot and it is hers to lose. However, there

is still this schism in the Tory body between Remain and Leave. The

little referendum last week! The idea you can send want tendered to

the entire membership who is a Remainer, they have to have those on

the ticket to resolve this is a huge party. You may be right. I saw a

wonderful pressie for an American audience which said that Theresa May

campaigned for Remain but is now in favour of Leave which is exactly the

opposite of Jeremy Corbyn. No! Exactly the same! Completely

confused! She was indivisible Tom Corbyn. I'm lost as well! -- from

Corbyn. Do we know yet what triggered the Brutus act of Michael

Gove? Yes. Did you not read the Sun? We think we have got to the nub of

it. It was the letter to Andrea Leadsom. Offering her the

chancellorship? She was ready to pull out and go with team Boris. It

was orchestrated by Michael Gove and all Boris had to do was offer in

writing the job of Chancellor. Boris apparently did write this letter but

it was never delivered to Andrea Leadsom at this Tory summer party. A

huge amount of conspiracy theories on both side as to what it was not

deliberate but it ended up with her saying, I will run against you and

let's go to war. All this was the excuse, I use that word carefully,

to say that Boris is an incompetent. Some people say that it was one

Michael Gove's supporters that was meant to deliver the letter. I have

a supporter of Andrea Leadsom waiting. There was no pigeon

involved? It is beginning to sound more like the Camorra than the

Mafia! We can talk now to the Conservative

MP Tim Loughton, who He is supporting Andrea Leadsom. Was

she offered the shadow chancellorship or, not the shadow,

the chancellorship, by Mr Johnson? I don't know, Andrew. There are more

twists and plots than Shakespeare. I'm not interested in who did what

to whom when, all I'm interested in is making sure we have a good

candidate to be Prime Minister and Andrea Leadsom is that person will

stop she had been a junior She has been a junior minister for

two years. Why would a junior minister be equipped to be Prime

Minister? I think David Cameron had been an MP for only four years when

he became leader of our party and he had never been a minister at the

time. He wasn't going to be Prime Minister straightaway. She has had a

very long and distinguished career in finance, highly regarded in the

city. She had been over six years in Parliament and a very successful and

promoted minister as well. She has got the skills but she is also

widely respected and liked across not only the whole of the party but

the whole Parliament. She is the real deal and we need somebody who

has the experience in finance and in negotiation because these are

challenging times ahead. She was the most passionate Brexit supporter.

When did she tell you she was running? It was all rather

last-minute. I was asked to put together a campaign team which met

firstly yesterday morning. When did she tell you she was running? I

spoke to her on the night before she put in. She had been considering

this... How long had she been talking to you? I rather lose track

of time as well. She's my closest friend in politics, I spent a couple

of days with her last week and we were talking through all the

different scenarios and how she could stand, if she should but she

wants to give more choice to the party. She is particularly

passionate, and she was the most passionate Brexiteer. She is

single-minded on that. I understand that it's her position. What was the

biggest thing that triggered her decision to run? Because she wants

to do the deal on Europe for Britain. That is her single most

important task and the most important thing is facing the

country. She threw herself into the referendum debate not to promote

herself but because she passionately believed that Britain's best future

is outside the EU. I understand all that... She now wants to see it

through. And she did not think that Boris Johnson would be able to do

the kind of Brexit deal that she wants? As I say, she wanted to have

a choice of Brexit candidates. There were concerns on some of the things

that Boris had said on rowing back but she is absolutely clear on where

she wants to go on Europe and the sort of renegotiation we need. And

briefly, what would be a good result for her in the first ballot? What

are you hoping for? I do know how the figures are going to fall. We

are spending the next few days speaking to an awful lot of

colleagues and my office was filled with MPs knocking on the door asking

to come and help so I think she will get a respectable score. It is too

early to know. She will be in the final two and may the best woman

win. Did you see what he did! Thank you very much for joining us, a busy

weekend ahead for you. What do you make of that? I think there is a

fairly decent chance that could come true. The unpopularity of Michael

Gove Indy has hazard commons amongst the Tories is so big. I think he

will run -- in the House of Commons. Going back a step, we have to talk

about the policies in this, nobody has talked about Brexit policy. That

is because they don't have any. They have to that a leadership contest.

Why do they hate Michael Gove so much? Look at his rear-view mirror,

in the last week he has taken Britain out of the EU, killed off

the Prime Minister and now Boris Johnson. The bodies are piling up

behind him. It is literally a case of personal honour, they think he is

dishonourable but they are asking how they can trust him. There will

certainly be a big stop Michael Gove campaign. As there was with Boris.

Of course, the Conservatives aren't the only party facing leadership

The slow-motion uprising against Jeremy Corbyn looks set

to continue into next week, with no sign of a formal challenge

This morning the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, has been speaking

about the economic implications of the vote to leave

Our political correspondent Ben Wright was watching his

Then, what was he telling us? John McDonell is talking about Brexit

policy in its broadest sense, the red line is that he says Labour

should have as it takes part in preacher discussion about the terms

of our exit, so he talked, unsurprisingly, about the need to

protect workers' writes, financial passport in for the city, the rights

of EU citizens here. Very, very broad brush and pretty vague but

questions soon got onto the leadership issue, of course, and I

asked John McDonnell how important this was, considering the fact that

most of the Shadow Cabinet, the vast majority of MPs, want Jeremy Corbyn

to quit, how plausible it was that Mr Corbyn would still be in the

lead's seat by the time Brexit negotiations began and Mr McDonnell

was quite emphatic that Jeremy Corbyn would still be there. He did,

though, say, bring it on, really, to challenge us. Mr Corbyn is resisting

any move to force him to resign, that's quite clear. He's digging in

and the challenge is to Angela eagle, Owen Smith and others, if you

want a leadership contest you are going to have to make a move and do

it yourself. John McDonell pretty much said, get on with it and do it

in the next few days. Thank you very much for that. Another developer

and, John McDonell speaking. He himself on the Sunday Politics last

weekend and again this morning has ruled himself out from standing as

Labour leader. Of course, Michael Gove ruled himself out of standing

as Conservative leader. We've been joined by Manuel Cortes,

the general secretary of the transport union,

TSSA, who are backing Jeremy Corbyn. Welcome to the programme. Good

morning. Mr Corbyn, when he was running the campaign for the

leadership last year, the campaign was called JC4PM. How does that work

on our? He's got a lot of support within our party but also if you

look at the election result under Corbyn, they've been very good.

We've won every single by-election. The Mayor of Bristol, something that

Ed Miliband failed to do, and over the piece we've been doing extremely

well. I think it's really sad that it appears that many within the PLP

have lost their senses. At a time when the Tories are bitterly

divided... Let me narrow the question down and ask you this. We

haven't got much time. How could he form a government when AT the centre

of the Parliamentary party has no confidence in him was I tell you

what's really important... It's really important that you answer my

question. MPs need to take the weekend off under threat and what

they're doing because what Labour voters want us to do is to join

behind the leader and challenge the Tories. The Tories are bitterly

divided. There is going to be blood over carpet when it comes to the

contest for the next leader of the Tory party and we should be taking

advantage. That's fine but that is just rhetoric. With the current

Parliamentary party, he can't even form a Shadow Cabinet, much less a

government. So it would follow that he could only form a government

after the next election with a very different Parliamentary party.

Correct? Well, this is not about challenging those MPs that are

currently within Westminster. Lets wait and see what happens. We are a

democratic party. We have got a constitutional process by which the

leader of the Labour Party can be challenged and what these people are

doing is childish and petulant. They haven't even got a candidate. You

would have thought if somebody was challenging the leader of the Labour

Party, they would have agreed somebody to stand against him. I

understand all that but these are just debating points. I'm trying to

get to the heart of this matter, which is how does Mr Corbyn form a

government, become Prime Minister, if AT % of the Parliamentary party

is against inquest -- 80%. He is standing firm and telling his MPs

that they need to unite to make sure that we do not disappoint the

millions of people who need a Labour government. They should spend the

weekend reflecting on their actions they're coming across as childish

and petulant and it is time they grew up. And if they don't grow up,

to use your words, surely if Mr Corbyn is serious about becoming

Prime Minister, he has to have a Parliamentary party that reflects Mr

Corbyn. There have to be major changes before the election among

those who stand for your party. For him to become Prime Minister, we

have to win many more seats, well over 106. There will be a lot of new

talent coming into the party but we must not forget that there are a lot

of talented people currently within the PLP. And asking them to reflect

on their actions. You've done that three times and we will see if they

do it. Sorry, you supported Mr Corbyn. Are you going to write a

book now about Labour's downfall? I supported Jeremy Corbyn because he

did represent something that the members clearly wanted. He had a

voice of hope, he seemed really radically different to the same old

diet that the other three were offering. What do they do now? I

genuinely think the failure to make the European case properly is

decisive. I think it was terrible and I think we're in... I want to

take issue with that. I share many platforms with Jeremy and he was

making the point to remain in Europe but, like him, as a socialist I've

got a different vision of the kind of Europe I want. Me to! But the

point that he made... You cannot change Europe without being part of

it and that's why we were committed to staying. You say you were

committed to staying batik plainly wasn't committed to staying. It was

obvious that he wasn't a remain and that has caused a crisis. Let me

talk, because you've talked a lot. There has been a hard core of

Blairite MPs trying to get rid of him but I do not think that is the

situation now. As Andrew says, it is AT % of MPs, huge amount of people

in the Labour Party who would have supported a change of vision, a

change of vision, but cannot support somebody who cannot articulate the

case that was so important to the Labour Party and to Labour Party

members. If I could finish quickly... You made a good point so

he should reply. Let's be brutally honest. Many people who voted for

Brexit did so in former industrial heartlands. They are looking for a

message of hope and I think that Jeremy is the only person who could

deliver that. But he didn't because otherwise they would have voted for

his side in the Remain vote. If they believed in, they would have stayed

with him for the Europe vote and they didn't believe him. It is very

difficult to expect someone to change the body politics of this

country in nine months. After 40 years of one-way traffic, I think we

should give him a chance. I think he's on the right track to talk our

by-election results have been good. You've said that. I want to ask a

question. We've just heard that the Austrian Supreme Court has ruled

that there has to be a rerun in the presidential election in Austria,

which was narrowly won against a pretty hard right alternative

candidate. That is a rerun of the presidential election in Austria. A

lot of Labour MPs say to me, it's not about whether he is left or

right, they think he's just useless as a leader. Does it not take a

particularly special expertise to organise and anti-Semitism

conference and lump Israel together with Islamic State, which is what Mr

Corbyn did yesterday? I think you'll find this morning that some of those

comments that were treated to him have no longer been backed up. I

know exactly what he said. I've heard the tape. He said so-called

Islamic state and other organisations and Israel was in that

sentence. What could he mean why so-called Islamic State? It has to

include Islamic State. He has a proven track record all his life of

fighting racism... So why lump Israel with Islamic State? I wasn't

there, I don't know in what context... It is on tape. I haven't

heard the tape. One quick question. Is splitting the Labour Party into,

a formal split, STP labour, what a writ is called, the price you are

winning to pay to keep Jeremy in? That, you must admit, is a real

prospect it up I don't see the prospect of a Labour Party split. I

think people need to reflect on their actions. We've got the weekend

coming up and I think at a time where... You set such a lot of store

by the weekend! Well, it's going to be a big weekend! We need cool

heads. They are a Democratic party, they need to find a challenger if

that's what they want but let's talk about the leader until that happens.

Manuel Cortes, we'll leave it there. I think we are going around in

circles now. I'm grateful for you to spelling out your position. It will

be a very interesting weekend for a change. We haven't had an

interesting weekend for years in politics! Let's assume a challenger

does emerge at some stage, I would have thought, otherwise they will

look foolish, and the election goes to the country, to the Labour Party

in the country. Does Mr Corbyn win again and if he does, does that

split the Labour Party? I think the answer is probably, not least

because 60,000 people just joined the Labour Party. You talked MPs now

and they are absolutely adamant, this is it. Corbyn wins again, we

go, and we'll take some unions with us, but it is curtains for Labour.

I'm afraid we finished with you. We haven't got much time. You've had a

good innings! You scored a few runs as well! I don't know if the 60,000

are joining momentum. I think they're on the other side. Secondly,

I don't think the split is going to come from that direction. I think of

Corbyn goes in and wins, he will stage a deselection from

constituencies. We need to move on to adopt we're rushed to date it up

it's a shame we haven't got more time. It is a shame but there's

something called Wimbledon that we've been cut down for. It's not as

if the countries and political crisis or anything! Please help me,

Manuel! As we were discussing earlier,

Michael Gove has been setting out his pitch

for the Conservative leadership. Speaking in the last few minutes

he said that whilst he may not have glamour or charisma,

he is the right person I knew that we needed a leader

who both believed in this new path and could build and lead a united

team to guide us through

the challenges ahead. I believed that Boris Johnson,

who had campaigned alongside me with such

energy and enthusiasm, I so wanted that plan to work

and worked night and day for it. But I came to realise this week

that, for all Boris's formidable talents, he was not the right

person for that task. That realisation meant that I once

more faced a Could I recommend to

friends, colleagues and the country of course in which I no

longer believed? I had to stand up

for my convictions. I had to stand up for a different

course for this country, I had to stand for the leadership

of this party. And in standing I cannot promise

that all the days ahead for I cannot pledge that

a few bold strokes will heal all our divisions

and solve the quick All I can pledge is that I will

always be guided by principle. I will govern as captain of the team

and I will always, always put my country and our people

above everything. This country voted for change

and I am going to deliver it. I'm the candidate for leader

who changed our education system. changing our prisons

and justice system. I'm the candidate for leader who led

the case for change in this referendum campaign

and the country voted for change. The country voted for no more

politics as usual, no more business as usual,

and that is why I'm standing That is Mr Gove beginning his

leadership bid for the Conservative Party, to be the next finalist. He

went on to say that he did think immigration numbers should come

down, that seemed to be a matter of dispute between him and Boris

Johnson of the week and. We had hoped to be speaking to Dominic

Raab, a big supporter of Mr Gove, but in the course of the programme

he's pulled out. There's a lot of that going on at all sides! Isn't Mr

Gove's bid marred by what has happened in the past 72 hours? It's

defined by it. It absolutely would not have happened if he happens to

the knife into Cameron and then Boris and he has two somehow park

that and persuade people to forget about that. I think you'll find it

very hard. Are we heading towards the Conservatives having the second

woman Prime Minister in our history? Quite possibly. I can't see them

going for gof. -- Michael Gove. The funny thing about Theresa Yobe is,

she does, in this chaos, you kind of want the safety option. She does

seem like a solid rock. We need to leave it there. Even you want to hug

Theresa May! There will be no holding on this programme.

I thank you both. I'll be back on Sunday

with the Sunday Politics. It is on at 11 o'clock on Sunday

morning. Clearly there will be a lot to update you on an report so I hope

you can join me. Sunday Politics 11 o'clock this Sunday morning.

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