04/07/2016 Daily Politics


04/07/2016

Jo Coburn is joined by Conservative MP Damian Green and Labour's Barry Gardiner, they look at the ongoing leadership battles in both the Labour and Conservative Party.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:39.

British politics looks set to have another leadership election

:00:40.:00:42.

as Nigel Farage announces he is stepping down

:00:43.:00:44.

Mr Farage says he has achieved his lifetime ambition

:00:45.:00:50.

to get Britain to leave the European Union, and the time

:00:51.:00:52.

Theresa May says she will work tirelessly to control immigration

:00:53.:01:05.

But as Home Secretary, the numbers have reached record highs.

:01:06.:01:08.

So is she the right person to get a grip on migration?

:01:09.:01:11.

We speak to her former Home Office minister.

:01:12.:01:15.

Jeremy Corbyn begins another day as Labour leader,

:01:16.:01:17.

as senior figures call for calm and a process of negotiation

:01:18.:01:20.

to find a way out of the party's current crisis.

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

:01:23.:01:35.

of the programme today are the Conservative MP and former

:01:36.:01:38.

He once worked for Theresa May at the Home Office so I guess

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And we're also joined by the Shadow Energy

:01:44.:01:46.

and Climate Change Secretary, Barry Gardiner, who's been in his

:01:47.:01:49.

job for a whopping seven days which, in these strange times,

:01:50.:01:52.

makes him one of the more experienced members

:01:53.:01:54.

So, you wait ages for a leadership contest,

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In the last hour Nigel Farage has announced that he is stepping

:02:01.:02:05.

I have never been and I've never wanted to be a career politician.

:02:06.:02:14.

My aim in being in politics was to get Britain out

:02:15.:02:16.

That is what we voted for in that referendum two weeks ago

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and that is why I now feel that I've done my bit, that I couldn't

:02:23.:02:27.

possibly achieve more than we managed to get in that

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referendum, and so I feel it's right that I should now stand

:02:32.:02:34.

He's a Ukip member of the Welsh Assembly and an MEP.

:02:35.:02:50.

Welcome. We've been here before, of course. Nigel Farage resigned and

:02:51.:02:58.

then didn't resign. If he definitely going this time? I believe he is. He

:02:59.:03:04.

said this is it. He campaigned on the big message that we want our

:03:05.:03:08.

country back and then he said during a speech he wants his life back. I

:03:09.:03:12.

believe he really does. As you just said in that clip, he's not a career

:03:13.:03:18.

politician. He's never pretended to be one. He has achieved the greatest

:03:19.:03:22.

pinnacle that any politician in British history could achieve, he's

:03:23.:03:28.

one our country back, he has won back our democracy, our sovereignty,

:03:29.:03:30.

and is going out on a high full foot it would be foolish not to. So who

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on earth could replace him? Pretty big shoes to fill and without a

:03:35.:03:39.

doubt, we are a very diverse party, with a lot of very skilled and

:03:40.:03:44.

talented people on the sidelines. What about you? I've not really

:03:45.:03:49.

considered it because it comes quite a shock. Nobody knew that this was

:03:50.:03:53.

going to happen. You didn't know even though you are close to Nigel

:03:54.:03:58.

Farage? I suspect because it was not telling anybody what the meeting was

:03:59.:04:01.

going to be about today, what the press conference was going to be

:04:02.:04:05.

about. He would not tell anybody, not even his closest confidants so I

:04:06.:04:09.

suspected he would get his life back. Will you consider it? We will

:04:10.:04:14.

have a meeting of the MEPs after, when we get to Strasbourg tonight,

:04:15.:04:17.

and we don't want to fall into the same trap as the Conservatives, this

:04:18.:04:22.

huge civil war for that we want to do this in a dignified way. We have

:04:23.:04:26.

lots of talent, so let's see what happens and who is willing to

:04:27.:04:30.

consider filling those big shoes. What's next for Nigel Farage, what

:04:31.:04:35.

should you do? I think he needs to rest. We've all worked very hard,

:04:36.:04:40.

we're all very tired. I think what he will do, he's going to be the

:04:41.:04:44.

canary in the mine shaft. He's going to continue to go to Brussels. He's

:04:45.:04:49.

going to keep an eye on the negotiations and he will lead the

:04:50.:04:53.

British people, as will the rest of the MEPs, where we go wrong and if

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we feel that article 50 is not going in the direction it should be going.

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He also said in a press conference, he talked about the need for

:05:02.:05:06.

experienced negotiators to be part of the Brexit team and Andrea

:05:07.:05:09.

Leadsom, one of the leadership contenders for the Conservative

:05:10.:05:13.

Party, was asked whether she would work with him and she didn't say one

:05:14.:05:17.

way or the other. Could you see Nigel Farage in some way advising

:05:18.:05:23.

and Andrea Leadsom team? I could see advising any team to be perfectly

:05:24.:05:29.

honest with you. Any conservative? Absolutely, his greatest skill, no

:05:30.:05:31.

one has more knowledge of the inner workings of the European Parliament

:05:32.:05:35.

than Nigel Farage. You would be foolish not to have him in there,

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even as just an adviser and let's face it, the 17.5 million votes we

:05:40.:05:43.

got, great dealer that was because of the efforts of the work of Nigel

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Farage. OK, thank you. Joining me now is Douglas Carswell,

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the party's only MP. Your reaction to Nigel Farage

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stepping down? I want to be generous. He spent 20 is pushing for

:05:57.:06:02.

a referendum. We had the referendum and it was won by 17.5 million

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people and he played a role in that. You are pleased to see him go? Six

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months ago I was talking about the need for change. I do think all

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parties benefit, it may not look like it today, this week, but all

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parties ultimately benefit from having these internal democratic

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inclusive contests to generate new ideas and allow the most able to get

:06:26.:06:30.

to the top. Don't hold back, you treated us :-) when he announced he

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was stepping down. I treat :-) is all the time, I'm very optimistic.

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You are happy about it? There's a huge opportunity here. The cartel

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party in Westminster, have, for years, taken for granted their

:06:46.:06:49.

electorate. 17% of Labour MPs represent constituencies where a

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majority of people wanted to leave the EU with a noble exception of

:06:52.:06:55.

people like geezer Stuart, most are out of touch with the people. That

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huge opportunity for us. And for you, as a successor? The chances of

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me standing as leader are between Miller and zero. My role is to steer

:07:11.:07:14.

Ukip away from the temptations of becoming an angry nativist party.

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Has that happened? We went too far and I criticised it when we went too

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far. It's not just morally wrong but electorally disastrous. This is a

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decent, generous country. People have a right to feel anger with

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their politicians but the answer to that is not to play on people's

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fears and anger, but to promise the hope of something better and if we

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can do that, we can be part of a great change of I never want to be a

:07:40.:07:43.

party with the Archbishop of Canterbury feels compelled to

:07:44.:07:45.

criticise the things people say. Is that why you were critical of Nigel

:07:46.:07:50.

Farage's breaking point poster? Yes, because it was deeply wrong at every

:07:51.:07:55.

time I see someone in politics who tries to get votes by playing on a

:07:56.:07:59.

sense of other, whether on the left trying to demonise the 1% or on the

:08:00.:08:04.

right, demonising the outsider, it's incumbent upon us to speak out and

:08:05.:08:08.

say it's wrong. Do you accept it was disloyal? It was loyal to my

:08:09.:08:11.

constituents and the hope of a happy about a country. What will it do to

:08:12.:08:16.

your future in the party? Nigel Farage has decided his future in

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Ukip but yours hangs in the balance so just to be cleared to viewers,

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are the executive going to expel you from the party because of my

:08:24.:08:27.

criticism? I don't know. I've been two different parties in as many

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years for that you can join a party for 25 quid online. Some parties are

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good and others are less good provided decent people get involved,

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this is about in politics and my main determination is to make sure

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Brexit works. 48% of these people have doubts about leaving and we now

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need to make sure there's a new national consensus, which is far

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more important to me than Tweedledee versus Tweedledum in Westminster. So

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who should lead Ukip? Someone generous and decent. I want to make

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sure it a general liberal inclusive script, no Tim Akers of, and need to

:09:09.:09:12.

offer angry voters the promise of something better. Do you think the

:09:13.:09:17.

anger was stirred up by Nigel Farage, and this returned to decent

:09:18.:09:21.

politics was because is not decent and Nigel Farage? There's been many

:09:22.:09:24.

occasions in the past 6-12 months where I have spoken very clearly,

:09:25.:09:29.

after the old by-election, implying postal vote and by extension a

:09:30.:09:33.

particular type of voter is somehow at fault was wrong. I spoke out

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clearly against that at the time. All of this is wrong, the poster, I

:09:39.:09:41.

don't think it's decent for political leaders in this country to

:09:42.:09:46.

try to attract votes by demonising. Look, politics is about getting

:09:47.:09:50.

everyone to mark their cross on the same bit of paper. It should be

:09:51.:09:53.

about bringing people together and I think, if we have a leader whose

:09:54.:09:57.

values are in tune with that, the sky is a limit, we can displace.

:09:58.:10:02.

When it's your dinner party if it's not fulfilling the criteria? That

:10:03.:10:08.

will it be your party? I'm more interested in trying to make Brexit

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work and play not ever go like an injury that. Political parties are

:10:14.:10:17.

not the be all and end all. Politics are like cookies in the nest. Maybe

:10:18.:10:21.

we need a different type of party. What you to that? Political parties,

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but some are better than others and I applaud him for his stance against

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the excesses of Nigel Farage, the nudge nudge, a bit racist, the

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phrase, I'm not racist but, could be invented the things Nigel Farage has

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done. You're not saying he's actually racist? No, I'm not, but he

:10:45.:10:50.

encourages feelings that are unhelpful and destructive and that's

:10:51.:10:53.

what is always done in a split a good career, so it generous, I don't

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dislike him personally, but I'm glad he's leaving front-line politics. I

:10:59.:11:03.

think it's good for politics in this country. What is your reaction to

:11:04.:11:08.

his resignation? I am very pleased he has decided to take a back-seat.

:11:09.:11:14.

I would be surprised if he does. If he does take a back-seat? You think

:11:15.:11:18.

you be back in the front line politics in what way? In some form

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or other, I think he's... He's somebody addicted to the camera. I

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think that's an addiction that former politicians find very

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difficult to break away from. Do you agree that Nigel Farage can't give

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it up? You need to talk to Nigel about this. I'm interested in making

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sure we leave the EU and have a new national consensus. We are basically

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a liberal outward looking country and I campaigned for 20 is to get us

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out of the EU because I think the EU is actually contrary to the liberal

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open tradition. OK, thank you very much.

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Theresa May's leadership campaign has had a significant boost this

:12:00.:12:02.

morning with the endorsement of her Cabinet colleague,

:12:03.:12:03.

Writing in today's Telegraph, he says Mrs May has

:12:04.:12:07.

the character and qualities to take Britain forward.

:12:08.:12:10.

And he also says it's crucial to end EU free movement

:12:11.:12:12.

Immigration is a key issue for the next leader so what are

:12:13.:12:17.

All five candidates stood on the Conservative election

:12:18.:12:22.

manifesto to bring migration down to the "tens of thousands".

:12:23.:12:27.

But last year, net migration topped 330,000, of which EU-only net

:12:28.:12:31.

Yesterday, Theresa May insisted that the message from the referendum

:12:32.:12:41.

was that the government needed to "bring control into movement

:12:42.:12:44.

of people" coming into the UK from the EU.

:12:45.:12:50.

But she hinted that the status of EU nationals in the UK and Britons

:12:51.:12:53.

living on the continent would also have to be part of any negotiations

:12:54.:12:56.

Launching his campaign last week, Stephen Crabb, the other contender

:12:57.:13:02.

for the Conservative leadership who backed the Remain campaign,

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said control over immigration would be a "red line"

:13:07.:13:08.

And Leave campaigners such as Michael Gove,

:13:09.:13:14.

Andrea Leadsom and Liam Fox have argued during the referendum

:13:15.:13:17.

campaign that the UK should introduce a points-based system

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for managing migrant applications, similar to that used by Australia.

:13:20.:13:29.

Joining us now is the Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg,

:13:30.:13:31.

who is backing Michael Gove to be the next leader.

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Welcome to the programme. I'll come to the moment. Is Theresa May the

:13:38.:13:44.

right person to negotiate immigration figures on her watch, it

:13:45.:13:48.

soared and her record is not inspire confidence. Absolutely because

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immigration, as we have seen in the past 15 years, going back through

:13:52.:13:55.

three governments, is a hugely difficult issue. You have to balance

:13:56.:14:00.

the needs of this country economic league with getting the brightest

:14:01.:14:04.

and the best here with the desire for control and actually bringing

:14:05.:14:09.

down the numbers. Many successful measures have been taken, the

:14:10.:14:12.

closure of 800 bogus colleges in Taiwan but even so the numbers have

:14:13.:14:16.

gone up. But they're not successful at the numbers go up and you work

:14:17.:14:19.

with Theresa May in the office of immigration and under your watch it

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has gone up. It's gone down and back up again, showing the difficulties

:14:25.:14:29.

but what I think is key is to make sure you strike that right balance

:14:30.:14:33.

and, in the new disposition we find ourselves, where we can have an

:14:34.:14:36.

immigration policy that applies to all countries, then the end of the

:14:37.:14:41.

old system of free movement and the movement to a new system of control

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am combining that with the capacity to keep our economy as strong as

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possible, is hugely detailed and Teresa has a much better

:14:53.:14:55.

qualification that anybody else. You say that but of course, on that

:14:56.:15:00.

issue of actually a trade-off, which is what Philip Hammond was talking

:15:01.:15:04.

about today between the economy and immigration, which is still pledged

:15:05.:15:07.

to bring net migration down to tens of thousands?

:15:08.:15:11.

We clearly need to bring it down lower. Theresa May has not set it

:15:12.:15:22.

out yet. We all wanted to come down. This idea that you should announce

:15:23.:15:28.

it is all fine, every British expat in Europe is fine, every European

:15:29.:15:33.

expat here is fine, to saying now that there is going to be no change

:15:34.:15:38.

is just a sign of an experience, frankly. Clearly that is a big

:15:39.:15:41.

negotiating card that we do not want to give away at this point. Many

:15:42.:15:50.

people will be worried by the implication that this will be part

:15:51.:15:56.

of the negotiation, EU nationals here now, but Michael Gove is clear

:15:57.:16:04.

it shouldn't be. Yellow -- I disagree with Damien. I think it is

:16:05.:16:07.

a question of what is the right thing to do about these individuals.

:16:08.:16:15.

I thought the free movement of people wouldn't -- within the

:16:16.:16:18.

European Union was a mistake. But when these people have done nothing

:16:19.:16:22.

wrong, and to throw their lives into the air as part of a negotiation, it

:16:23.:16:27.

is the wrong thing to do, a bad way to treat people. But in terms of

:16:28.:16:30.

reducing the numbers, it would have to be? From the day we leave, we

:16:31.:16:35.

should ensure that people come here on the same basis from India is from

:16:36.:16:44.

Italy. E4 wheelie, we should make sure the people who arrived here

:16:45.:16:48.

before June 23 does not inherit these rights. It would be wrong to

:16:49.:16:56.

say to polish people, to French people, that they should leave. It

:16:57.:17:00.

would be wrong. The problem is I want to give the same guarantees to

:17:01.:17:06.

British ex-patriots. In an ideal world, absolutely, we would get to a

:17:07.:17:11.

point where nobody is inconvenienced. First of all, we

:17:12.:17:16.

cannot control what other governments do to British expats.

:17:17.:17:22.

That is why saying whatever happens, nothing will change now, is a lack

:17:23.:17:31.

of experience. What you have just said, from the moment we exit,

:17:32.:17:35.

everybody will be able to stay, that is fine. What will happen between

:17:36.:17:40.

now and then? That is why we must not extend rights to people from now

:17:41.:17:48.

on. We have to set a date. When would be a sensible date? I think it

:17:49.:17:54.

should be announced by the leadership contenders so people

:17:55.:17:57.

would know. We have to say and it has to be soon. If you say anyone

:17:58.:18:02.

who comes in the next couple of years can stay forever, that would

:18:03.:18:07.

encourage a rush of people. But I do disagree with Damien about using

:18:08.:18:11.

this as a bargaining chip. I think sometimes you have to do the right

:18:12.:18:15.

thing. You have to remember you are dealing with individual lives. That

:18:16.:18:19.

is more important than using it as a bargaining chip in the negotiations.

:18:20.:18:24.

How do you protect the lives of it is expats? Politics without some

:18:25.:18:32.

moral backbone is without value. I would be very surprised. We heard

:18:33.:18:36.

the Maltese Prime Minister, which has the highest percentage of

:18:37.:18:41.

British expats to their population, you would not dream of asking them

:18:42.:18:46.

to leave. Are you sure you would get that agreement from Spain, from

:18:47.:18:50.

France, where there are hundreds of thousands of British people, in a

:18:51.:18:55.

negotiation? I think it would be extraordinary if we behave

:18:56.:18:59.

generously, that they would behave meanly in return. Let's talk about

:19:00.:19:06.

an Australian points-based system, which is being advocated by Michael

:19:07.:19:10.

Gove. Will that bring migration down to tens of thousands? It depends how

:19:11.:19:15.

you set the system. You determine the points for the skills you need

:19:16.:19:18.

and work out how many people you need for jobs that are available. It

:19:19.:19:22.

would have to be awfully narrow to bring it down by hundreds of

:19:23.:19:28.

thousands? It would have to be more narrow vanities. It is possible to

:19:29.:19:33.

do. Immigration was in the tens of thousands until the 1990s. It has

:19:34.:19:37.

got out of control in the last 20 years. It would be impossible to go

:19:38.:19:42.

back to a level of control. It is silly to pretend it is easy. Do you

:19:43.:19:49.

support a points-based system? The problem for the Australian system is

:19:50.:19:55.

that it does not achieve what it set out to achieve. You could let nobody

:19:56.:20:03.

in but I hope that is not a theory that will ever be put into practice.

:20:04.:20:08.

That could be hugely damaging. You said during the referendum campaign

:20:09.:20:11.

that such a system would wreck the economy. The more complexities you

:20:12.:20:18.

put into it, the more difficult it is for firms and for individuals...

:20:19.:20:24.

If someone doesn't know whether the rules are going to be changed next

:20:25.:20:29.

year, saw their qualifications may not apply, you do actually get a lot

:20:30.:20:34.

of friction in the system. You have to create a huge bureaucracy to make

:20:35.:20:40.

it work. What is your view? John McDonnell agrees with Jacob

:20:41.:20:44.

Rees-Mogg, that people already here, EU nationals, should be safe in the

:20:45.:20:50.

knowledge they should stay. Do you agree to absolutely. My constituency

:20:51.:20:53.

of Brent North is the first constituency in the country that had

:20:54.:20:56.

more people in the last election voting were born outside of the UK

:20:57.:21:02.

than were born in it. How much should immigration come down? Much

:21:03.:21:07.

of that has been through the eastern migration in Europe -- migration --

:21:08.:21:14.

Eastern European migration. There were transitional controls. Not for

:21:15.:21:22.

Poland. That is absolutely right. What we have got is one of the most

:21:23.:21:27.

vibrant economies in north-west London. So you don't think

:21:28.:21:32.

immigration should come down? No, I didn't say that. What has happened

:21:33.:21:36.

with the migration, and perhaps Jacob should take it on board,

:21:37.:21:41.

although I agree with his moral point, he needs to consider that

:21:42.:21:45.

when we widen immigration from India to Italy, we then see the widening

:21:46.:21:50.

of the commodification of labour. That presents its own problems, the

:21:51.:21:54.

very problems that he is talking about, where people in this country

:21:55.:21:58.

feel alienate it by the migration flows that have taken place, the

:21:59.:22:02.

undermining of the old politics of place. That will accentuate. Very

:22:03.:22:11.

briefly, this legal challenge on Parliament having to actually

:22:12.:22:16.

trigger or agree that only the Prime Minister can invoke article 50, will

:22:17.:22:21.

that get anywhere? I don't think it well. I have spoken to a legal

:22:22.:22:26.

expert who said the purpose of the communities act -- European

:22:27.:22:30.

Communities Act, was to bring EU law into British law, not to determine

:22:31.:22:35.

our membership. And that the referendum act made it clear there

:22:36.:22:37.

would be an advisory board that the government could then act on. I

:22:38.:22:42.

think you might be arguing that exercising Article 50 by the

:22:43.:22:47.

prerogative power would have an implication for one act, it would be

:22:48.:22:51.

fully in accordance with the second and later act. The liver act would

:22:52.:22:52.

be deemed superior. All the king's horses

:22:53.:22:59.

and all the king's men couldn't put But Len McCluskey thinks

:23:00.:23:02.

he can put he can put the Labour Party back together,

:23:03.:23:05.

and keep Jeremy Corbyn as its leader, as he told

:23:06.:23:07.

Andrew Marr yesterday. Trade unions have always been

:23:08.:23:09.

the rock, the anchor, that has kept the Labour ship steady

:23:10.:23:11.

in stormy seas and what I'm saying is that, because this

:23:12.:23:15.

coup has now failed, the trade unions can broker a peace,

:23:16.:23:17.

with Jeremy as our leader and the genuine concerns of the PLP,

:23:18.:23:21.

we can bring people together, and I'm calling upon Angela Eagle

:23:22.:23:25.

and Owen Smith and anybody else What kind of deal

:23:26.:23:32.

could you offer them? You would bring in a

:23:33.:23:35.

different shadow cabinet? We would bring both parties together

:23:36.:23:40.

and resolve this issue. Len McCluskey is going to stage the

:23:41.:23:53.

Labour Party back together and keep Jeremy Corbyn as leader. If he does

:23:54.:23:59.

do -- do that, you might be up for a Nobel Peace Prize? I don't think

:24:00.:24:04.

Glenn would want a peace prize. It is important that we are clear that

:24:05.:24:10.

negotiations have to happen. Should it be united by Len McCluskey? It

:24:11.:24:16.

should be somebody trusted within the trade union. I think Frances

:24:17.:24:19.

O'Grady would be an excellent choice. There are other potential

:24:20.:24:25.

choices. I put John Prescott's name in the frame yesterday. He is

:24:26.:24:30.

somebody who has a tradition of negotiating between Labour leaders.

:24:31.:24:36.

He certainly does. It wasn't as bad then as it is now. I don't know.

:24:37.:24:42.

More than that, he is somebody who is the rank and file of the party

:24:43.:24:47.

and people trust. Party members know he has party members interests at

:24:48.:24:58.

heart. More so than Len McCluskey? ECM more honest broker? I didn't

:24:59.:25:04.

hear Len McCluskey ask for the job. I think he simply said that the

:25:05.:25:08.

trade union movement could do it. And I agree with that. I think

:25:09.:25:12.

Frances O'Grady would be an excellent choice. How long will you

:25:13.:25:16.

stay in the shadow cabinet if this impasse continues? I am there at the

:25:17.:25:23.

invitation of the leader and I will stay there until the invitation is

:25:24.:25:28.

no longer extended. Angela Eagle has said she will stand if the impasse

:25:29.:25:33.

continues. What do you say to her? That is the party rules. The party

:25:34.:25:39.

rules are very clear. Should she stand? The only way of having an

:25:40.:25:43.

election, the only way of triggering a change in leader is to challenge.

:25:44.:25:48.

Do you think that should happen? Would it be better now for someone

:25:49.:25:52.

to challenge for the leadership and just have it out? What we need to do

:25:53.:26:03.

is get all sides together and have them talk to each other. At the

:26:04.:26:06.

moment it is being talked through proxy and I don't think that helps.

:26:07.:26:08.

Even without those talks, could Jeremy Corbyn continue as leader?

:26:09.:26:12.

Absolutely. He has not had the support of the vast majority of MPs

:26:13.:26:18.

since becoming leader. He had 36 nominations, that was all, in the

:26:19.:26:21.

ballot the other day he actually got 40. In effect, his approval rating

:26:22.:26:28.

has gone. The key point here is that for the past nine months the Labour

:26:29.:26:33.

Party has been functioning on that basis, that the vast majority of the

:26:34.:26:36.

Parliamentary party do not like the leader, they would have somebody

:26:37.:26:42.

else. The difference here is that people within the PLP have decided

:26:43.:26:46.

that they want to, in effect, conducted through to get rid of him

:26:47.:26:51.

instead of challenging through the party process. You are saying it

:26:52.:26:56.

would be better to challenge than to wait for him to stand down? The only

:26:57.:27:02.

way constitutionally to depose a sitting leader of the Labour

:27:03.:27:09.

Party... Unless he stands down. I said to depose. If Corbyn stays, the

:27:10.:27:14.

pressure will be on to replace Labour MPs, to deselect the 176 MPs

:27:15.:27:19.

who failed to vote for Jeremy Corbyn and replace them with people who are

:27:20.:27:23.

sympathetic at grassroots level. Is that what he would like to see to

:27:24.:27:28.

the first thing I said at shadow cabinet last week was that we had to

:27:29.:27:33.

have absolute clarity, that anybody who was harassing, intimidating or

:27:34.:27:38.

threatening sitting MPs, if they were party members, should be very

:27:39.:27:42.

clear, that if they were found guilty, they would be thrown out of

:27:43.:27:46.

the party. We are not going to have a witch hunt within the Labour

:27:47.:27:52.

Party. That would be a disaster. Are you sure? I am telling you my view.

:27:53.:27:57.

It would be a disaster to do that. Members of Parliament do a difficult

:27:58.:28:01.

job, they are elected by constituents and they should not be

:28:02.:28:06.

levered out by people who do not have the best interest of the party

:28:07.:28:11.

and the wider public at heart. Do you sometimes wake up in the morning

:28:12.:28:14.

and wonder how the Labour Party got into this mess? I think politics is

:28:15.:28:17.

a very strange profession. Now, before we go, if you want

:28:18.:28:21.

to hear more on all these stories, I will be joining Adam

:28:22.:28:25.

online in one minute, for another 20 minutes,

:28:26.:28:27.

to take your questions and show you our programme from behind

:28:28.:28:29.

the scenes in our newsroom. Just follow the link

:28:30.:28:32.

to the BBC News Facebook page. Can you believe how politics has

:28:33.:28:42.

turned out in the last couple of weeks? It is on fast forward at the

:28:43.:28:47.

moment. A very strange period. Could you have predicted Anier but? Not

:28:48.:28:49.

really. It is politics. My guest will be former Labour

:28:50.:28:53.

minister Tessa Jowell.

:28:54.:28:57.

Jo Coburn is joined by Conservative MP Damian Green and Labour's Barry Gardiner, they look at the ongoing leadership battles in both the Labour and Conservative Party. Plus coverage of a speech by Ukip leader Nigel Farage.


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