01/07/2016 Daily Politics


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Fresh from triggering Boris Johnson's departure


from the Conservative leadership race, Michael Gove sets out his case


The Justice Secretary is due to launch his campaign in the next


And with the full field of five candidates now fighting for votes


amongst Conservative MPs, we'll assess their chances ahead


Jeremy Corbyn insists he's not going anywhere


and there's no sign, yet, of a concrete challenge


We'll assess what happens next in the Labour Party's civil war.


All that in the next half hour and with us for the whole


of the programme today, the Sun's political editor


Tom Newton Dunn, and the Guardian columnist Zoe Williams.


The Conservative leadership battle is turning into an episode


Yesterday morning we were getting ready for Boris Johnson


to make his move to be the Capo di Capo with sidekick Andrea Leadsom


But all that changed when Michael Gove made his move


and whacked Boris by running himself, saying that "Boris cannot


provide the leadership or build the team


Andrea Leadsom then announced she was going for the top job,


leaving Boris to look at the numbers and decide there wasn't


Now there are five declared candidates, with Gove and Leadsom


joined by Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox and the current favourite,


But the plan is a series of votes beginning next Tuesday until there


Then all Conservative Party members across the country get to vote


with a new boss taking charge by the 9th of September.


And they will also be our Prime Minister.


In the last half an hour, Boris Johnson was asked by reporters


as he left home about Michael Gove's decision to stand for


I cannot, unfortunately, get on with doing what I wanted


to do so it will be up to somebody else now.


Do you have any regrets about campaigning for Leave?


No, I think it will be great for our country and we


I think everybody needs to take advantage of what I think will be


That was Boris Johnson walking, we are not sure where that he was


walking a bit of mumbling, we could not catch all of it. We are hearing


that some Conservative ministers are now pressing Michael Gove to


withdraw which would be interesting since it was only on yesterday


morning that he announced he was standing. They want to rally round


Theresa May so that she wins by a huge amount and that kind of


determined it. If that happens, don't ask me! What I can take it


that he will be speaking after Boris Johnson withdrew yesterday, I doubt


he will do. Where are we? I'm hamstrung by not understanding the


Conservative psyche. It doesn't help! It is baffling. If Michael


Gove were to withdraw and leave it open for Theresa May, they still


have 2% two names to the party members. And then the other is what,


Liam Fox? That is technically right but they are a bit better at making


it up as they go along than Labour. If Theresa May was to emerge from a


first or second ballot is a clear front runner, there would be


pressure on the other is to stand down. They would call the


consistency chairman around the country. None of this may happen but


that is the kind of world we are in. I don't buy it. You are right that


Theresa May will top the ballot and it is hers to lose. However, there


is still this schism in the Tory body between Remain and Leave. The


little referendum last week! The idea you can send want tendered to


the entire membership who is a Remainer, they have to have those on


the ticket to resolve this is a huge party. You may be right. I saw a


wonderful pressie for an American audience which said that Theresa May


campaigned for Remain but is now in favour of Leave which is exactly the


opposite of Jeremy Corbyn. No! Exactly the same! Completely


confused! She was indivisible Tom Corbyn. I'm lost as well! -- from


Corbyn. Do we know yet what triggered the Brutus act of Michael


Gove? Yes. Did you not read the Sun? We think we have got to the nub of


it. It was the letter to Andrea Leadsom. Offering her the


chancellorship? She was ready to pull out and go with team Boris. It


was orchestrated by Michael Gove and all Boris had to do was offer in


writing the job of Chancellor. Boris apparently did write this letter but


it was never delivered to Andrea Leadsom at this Tory summer party. A


huge amount of conspiracy theories on both side as to what it was not


deliberate but it ended up with her saying, I will run against you and


let's go to war. All this was the excuse, I use that word carefully,


to say that Boris is an incompetent. Some people say that it was one


Michael Gove's supporters that was meant to deliver the letter. I have


a supporter of Andrea Leadsom waiting. There was no pigeon


involved? It is beginning to sound more like the Camorra than the


Mafia! We can talk now to the Conservative


MP Tim Loughton, who He is supporting Andrea Leadsom. Was


she offered the shadow chancellorship or, not the shadow,


the chancellorship, by Mr Johnson? I don't know, Andrew. There are more


twists and plots than Shakespeare. I'm not interested in who did what


to whom when, all I'm interested in is making sure we have a good


candidate to be Prime Minister and Andrea Leadsom is that person will


stop she had been a junior She has been a junior minister for


two years. Why would a junior minister be equipped to be Prime


Minister? I think David Cameron had been an MP for only four years when


he became leader of our party and he had never been a minister at the


time. He wasn't going to be Prime Minister straightaway. She has had a


very long and distinguished career in finance, highly regarded in the


city. She had been over six years in Parliament and a very successful and


promoted minister as well. She has got the skills but she is also


widely respected and liked across not only the whole of the party but


the whole Parliament. She is the real deal and we need somebody who


has the experience in finance and in negotiation because these are


challenging times ahead. She was the most passionate Brexit supporter.


When did she tell you she was running? It was all rather


last-minute. I was asked to put together a campaign team which met


firstly yesterday morning. When did she tell you she was running? I


spoke to her on the night before she put in. She had been considering


this... How long had she been talking to you? I rather lose track


of time as well. She's my closest friend in politics, I spent a couple


of days with her last week and we were talking through all the


different scenarios and how she could stand, if she should but she


wants to give more choice to the party. She is particularly


passionate, and she was the most passionate Brexiteer. She is


single-minded on that. I understand that it's her position. What was the


biggest thing that triggered her decision to run? Because she wants


to do the deal on Europe for Britain. That is her single most


important task and the most important thing is facing the


country. She threw herself into the referendum debate not to promote


herself but because she passionately believed that Britain's best future


is outside the EU. I understand all that... She now wants to see it


through. And she did not think that Boris Johnson would be able to do


the kind of Brexit deal that she wants? As I say, she wanted to have


a choice of Brexit candidates. There were concerns on some of the things


that Boris had said on rowing back but she is absolutely clear on where


she wants to go on Europe and the sort of renegotiation we need. And


briefly, what would be a good result for her in the first ballot? What


are you hoping for? I do know how the figures are going to fall. We


are spending the next few days speaking to an awful lot of


colleagues and my office was filled with MPs knocking on the door asking


to come and help so I think she will get a respectable score. It is too


early to know. She will be in the final two and may the best woman


win. Did you see what he did! Thank you very much for joining us, a busy


weekend ahead for you. What do you make of that? I think there is a


fairly decent chance that could come true. The unpopularity of Michael


Gove Indy has hazard commons amongst the Tories is so big. I think he


will run -- in the House of Commons. Going back a step, we have to talk


about the policies in this, nobody has talked about Brexit policy. That


is because they don't have any. They have to that a leadership contest.


Why do they hate Michael Gove so much? Look at his rear-view mirror,


in the last week he has taken Britain out of the EU, killed off


the Prime Minister and now Boris Johnson. The bodies are piling up


behind him. It is literally a case of personal honour, they think he is


dishonourable but they are asking how they can trust him. There will


certainly be a big stop Michael Gove campaign. As there was with Boris.


Of course, the Conservatives aren't the only party facing leadership


The slow-motion uprising against Jeremy Corbyn looks set


to continue into next week, with no sign of a formal challenge


This morning the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, has been speaking


about the economic implications of the vote to leave


Our political correspondent Ben Wright was watching his


Then, what was he telling us? John McDonell is talking about Brexit


policy in its broadest sense, the red line is that he says Labour


should have as it takes part in preacher discussion about the terms


of our exit, so he talked, unsurprisingly, about the need to


protect workers' writes, financial passport in for the city, the rights


of EU citizens here. Very, very broad brush and pretty vague but


questions soon got onto the leadership issue, of course, and I


asked John McDonnell how important this was, considering the fact that


most of the Shadow Cabinet, the vast majority of MPs, want Jeremy Corbyn


to quit, how plausible it was that Mr Corbyn would still be in the


lead's seat by the time Brexit negotiations began and Mr McDonnell


was quite emphatic that Jeremy Corbyn would still be there. He did,


though, say, bring it on, really, to challenge us. Mr Corbyn is resisting


any move to force him to resign, that's quite clear. He's digging in


and the challenge is to Angela eagle, Owen Smith and others, if you


want a leadership contest you are going to have to make a move and do


it yourself. John McDonell pretty much said, get on with it and do it


in the next few days. Thank you very much for that. Another developer


and, John McDonell speaking. He himself on the Sunday Politics last


weekend and again this morning has ruled himself out from standing as


Labour leader. Of course, Michael Gove ruled himself out of standing


as Conservative leader. We've been joined by Manuel Cortes,


the general secretary of the transport union,


TSSA, who are backing Jeremy Corbyn. Welcome to the programme. Good


morning. Mr Corbyn, when he was running the campaign for the


leadership last year, the campaign was called JC4PM. How does that work


on our? He's got a lot of support within our party but also if you


look at the election result under Corbyn, they've been very good.


We've won every single by-election. The Mayor of Bristol, something that


Ed Miliband failed to do, and over the piece we've been doing extremely


well. I think it's really sad that it appears that many within the PLP


have lost their senses. At a time when the Tories are bitterly


divided... Let me narrow the question down and ask you this. We


haven't got much time. How could he form a government when AT the centre


of the Parliamentary party has no confidence in him was I tell you


what's really important... It's really important that you answer my


question. MPs need to take the weekend off under threat and what


they're doing because what Labour voters want us to do is to join


behind the leader and challenge the Tories. The Tories are bitterly


divided. There is going to be blood over carpet when it comes to the


contest for the next leader of the Tory party and we should be taking


advantage. That's fine but that is just rhetoric. With the current


Parliamentary party, he can't even form a Shadow Cabinet, much less a


government. So it would follow that he could only form a government


after the next election with a very different Parliamentary party.


Correct? Well, this is not about challenging those MPs that are


currently within Westminster. Lets wait and see what happens. We are a


democratic party. We have got a constitutional process by which the


leader of the Labour Party can be challenged and what these people are


doing is childish and petulant. They haven't even got a candidate. You


would have thought if somebody was challenging the leader of the Labour


Party, they would have agreed somebody to stand against him. I


understand all that but these are just debating points. I'm trying to


get to the heart of this matter, which is how does Mr Corbyn form a


government, become Prime Minister, if AT % of the Parliamentary party


is against inquest -- 80%. He is standing firm and telling his MPs


that they need to unite to make sure that we do not disappoint the


millions of people who need a Labour government. They should spend the


weekend reflecting on their actions they're coming across as childish


and petulant and it is time they grew up. And if they don't grow up,


to use your words, surely if Mr Corbyn is serious about becoming


Prime Minister, he has to have a Parliamentary party that reflects Mr


Corbyn. There have to be major changes before the election among


those who stand for your party. For him to become Prime Minister, we


have to win many more seats, well over 106. There will be a lot of new


talent coming into the party but we must not forget that there are a lot


of talented people currently within the PLP. And asking them to reflect


on their actions. You've done that three times and we will see if they


do it. Sorry, you supported Mr Corbyn. Are you going to write a


book now about Labour's downfall? I supported Jeremy Corbyn because he


did represent something that the members clearly wanted. He had a


voice of hope, he seemed really radically different to the same old


diet that the other three were offering. What do they do now? I


genuinely think the failure to make the European case properly is


decisive. I think it was terrible and I think we're in... I want to


take issue with that. I share many platforms with Jeremy and he was


making the point to remain in Europe but, like him, as a socialist I've


got a different vision of the kind of Europe I want. Me to! But the


point that he made... You cannot change Europe without being part of


it and that's why we were committed to staying. You say you were


committed to staying batik plainly wasn't committed to staying. It was


obvious that he wasn't a remain and that has caused a crisis. Let me


talk, because you've talked a lot. There has been a hard core of


Blairite MPs trying to get rid of him but I do not think that is the


situation now. As Andrew says, it is AT % of MPs, huge amount of people


in the Labour Party who would have supported a change of vision, a


change of vision, but cannot support somebody who cannot articulate the


case that was so important to the Labour Party and to Labour Party


members. If I could finish quickly... You made a good point so


he should reply. Let's be brutally honest. Many people who voted for


Brexit did so in former industrial heartlands. They are looking for a


message of hope and I think that Jeremy is the only person who could


deliver that. But he didn't because otherwise they would have voted for


his side in the Remain vote. If they believed in, they would have stayed


with him for the Europe vote and they didn't believe him. It is very


difficult to expect someone to change the body politics of this


country in nine months. After 40 years of one-way traffic, I think we


should give him a chance. I think he's on the right track to talk our


by-election results have been good. You've said that. I want to ask a


question. We've just heard that the Austrian Supreme Court has ruled


that there has to be a rerun in the presidential election in Austria,


which was narrowly won against a pretty hard right alternative


candidate. That is a rerun of the presidential election in Austria. A


lot of Labour MPs say to me, it's not about whether he is left or


right, they think he's just useless as a leader. Does it not take a


particularly special expertise to organise and anti-Semitism


conference and lump Israel together with Islamic State, which is what Mr


Corbyn did yesterday? I think you'll find this morning that some of those


comments that were treated to him have no longer been backed up. I


know exactly what he said. I've heard the tape. He said so-called


Islamic state and other organisations and Israel was in that


sentence. What could he mean why so-called Islamic State? It has to


include Islamic State. He has a proven track record all his life of


fighting racism... So why lump Israel with Islamic State? I wasn't


there, I don't know in what context... It is on tape. I haven't


heard the tape. One quick question. Is splitting the Labour Party into,


a formal split, STP labour, what a writ is called, the price you are


winning to pay to keep Jeremy in? That, you must admit, is a real


prospect it up I don't see the prospect of a Labour Party split. I


think people need to reflect on their actions. We've got the weekend


coming up and I think at a time where... You set such a lot of store


by the weekend! Well, it's going to be a big weekend! We need cool


heads. They are a Democratic party, they need to find a challenger if


that's what they want but let's talk about the leader until that happens.


Manuel Cortes, we'll leave it there. I think we are going around in


circles now. I'm grateful for you to spelling out your position. It will


be a very interesting weekend for a change. We haven't had an


interesting weekend for years in politics! Let's assume a challenger


does emerge at some stage, I would have thought, otherwise they will


look foolish, and the election goes to the country, to the Labour Party


in the country. Does Mr Corbyn win again and if he does, does that


split the Labour Party? I think the answer is probably, not least


because 60,000 people just joined the Labour Party. You talked MPs now


and they are absolutely adamant, this is it. Corbyn wins again, we


go, and we'll take some unions with us, but it is curtains for Labour.


I'm afraid we finished with you. We haven't got much time. You've had a


good innings! You scored a few runs as well! I don't know if the 60,000


are joining momentum. I think they're on the other side. Secondly,


I don't think the split is going to come from that direction. I think of


Corbyn goes in and wins, he will stage a deselection from


constituencies. We need to move on to adopt we're rushed to date it up


it's a shame we haven't got more time. It is a shame but there's


something called Wimbledon that we've been cut down for. It's not as


if the countries and political crisis or anything! Please help me,


Manuel! As we were discussing earlier,


Michael Gove has been setting out his pitch


for the Conservative leadership. Speaking in the last few minutes


he said that whilst he may not have glamour or charisma,


he is the right person I knew that we needed a leader


who both believed in this new path and could build and lead a united


team to guide us through


the challenges ahead. I believed that Boris Johnson,


who had campaigned alongside me with such


energy and enthusiasm, I so wanted that plan to work


and worked night and day for it. But I came to realise this week


that, for all Boris's formidable talents, he was not the right


person for that task. That realisation meant that I once


more faced a Could I recommend to


friends, colleagues and the country of course in which I no


longer believed? I had to stand up


for my convictions. I had to stand up for a different


course for this country, I had to stand for the leadership


of this party. And in standing I cannot promise


that all the days ahead for I cannot pledge that


a few bold strokes will heal all our divisions


and solve the quick All I can pledge is that I will


always be guided by principle. I will govern as captain of the team


and I will always, always put my country and our people


above everything. This country voted for change


and I am going to deliver it. I'm the candidate for leader


who changed our education system. changing our prisons


and justice system. I'm the candidate for leader who led


the case for change in this referendum campaign


and the country voted for change. The country voted for no more


politics as usual, no more business as usual,


and that is why I'm standing That is Mr Gove beginning his


leadership bid for the Conservative Party, to be the next finalist. He


went on to say that he did think immigration numbers should come


down, that seemed to be a matter of dispute between him and Boris


Johnson of the week and. We had hoped to be speaking to Dominic


Raab, a big supporter of Mr Gove, but in the course of the programme


he's pulled out. There's a lot of that going on at all sides! Isn't Mr


Gove's bid marred by what has happened in the past 72 hours? It's


defined by it. It absolutely would not have happened if he happens to


the knife into Cameron and then Boris and he has two somehow park


that and persuade people to forget about that. I think you'll find it


very hard. Are we heading towards the Conservatives having the second


woman Prime Minister in our history? Quite possibly. I can't see them


going for gof. -- Michael Gove. The funny thing about Theresa Yobe is,


she does, in this chaos, you kind of want the safety option. She does


seem like a solid rock. We need to leave it there. Even you want to hug


Theresa May! There will be no holding on this programme.


I thank you both. I'll be back on Sunday


with the Sunday Politics. It is on at 11 o'clock on Sunday


morning. Clearly there will be a lot to update you on an report so I hope


you can join me. Sunday Politics 11 o'clock this Sunday morning.


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