Browse content similar to 05/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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advise them to do that whether times are good or difficult. When taking | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
out a mortgage, at some point over the life of that mortgage, times | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
will be difficult. It might be at the start, five years in, ten or 15. | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
You want to make sure as a family, as an individual, but | :00:18. | :00:35. | |
Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Voting gets underway in the Conservative leadership | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
election as the five candidates vying to take over | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
from David Cameron hope they'll get enough support to avoid crashing | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson is meeting the big unions | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
in what is described as a last roll of the dice to persuade | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
The Governor of the Bank Of England Mark Carney warns of challenging | :00:58. | :01:06. | |
times ahead as he assesses the impact of the vote to leave | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
And hundreds of schools across England are closed today | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
as teachers strike over pay, workloads and school funding. | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
And with us for the whole of the programme today is the former | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
Labour Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell. | :01:34. | :01:34. | |
But first, the Governor of the Bank Of England has warned | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
that the UK faces a challenging economic outlook following | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
Speaking in the last hour, Mark Carney said that some | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
of the risks he warned about before the vote to leave | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
The number of vulnerable households could increase | :01:50. | :02:01. | |
with a tougher economic outlook and potential | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
-- with a tougher economic outlook and potential tightening | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
In particular, there is growing evidence of uncertainty | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
about the referendum had delayed major economic decisions such | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
as business investment, construction and housing market activity. | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
Our business correspondent Jonty Bloom joins me now. | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
What else did he have to say? In particular, he is worried about | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
the amount of lending in the economy, that is why he has weakened | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
the rules for the banks, they have more capital they can lend, about | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
?150 billion will be released. A sign of how important he thinks it | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
is the banks keep lending. The risks are quite significant, | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
especially with commercial property. He says the amount of foreign | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
investment in commercial property fell by half in the first three | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
months. Yesterday, we saw Standard Life frees one of its property funds | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
so no one could take their money out so there would be no run on people | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
taking money out. People need to invest here to improve our trade | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
deficit. How worried should we be about the | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
risks Mark Carney has said the board about before the vote? | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
Mark Carney is being serious and very worried. He says the Bank of | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
England is taking a significant number of steps to ameliorate the | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
worst effects. Today, we have had that extra | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
borrowing. We are expecting there will be a cut in interest rates down | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
to 0.25%, even lower. Also, the Bank of England has said | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
there is the opportunity for more quantitative easing when they print | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
money and release it. They have been doing that since the credit crunch | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
and could be doing even more. In terms of other monetary policy, | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
the currency rates and stock market, have they recovered since the | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
initial dip? That was put to him, why are you | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
worried when the stock market has recovered? He said the pound is | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
still down 10%. Good when we need to export more. But if you look at | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
house-builders, they are significantly lower. He is worried | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
signs that the property market is slowing down, construction has | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
halted in the private sector. Bank shares are down 20%, the domestic | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
share market, the FTSE 250, that is markedly lower as well. All those | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
things pointed to the market agreeing with Mark Carney we have | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
serious problems. Is this the right action to take in | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
what was predicted to be short-term instability? | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
I am sure it is the right action to take. As Jonty said, this is | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
realising the reality of all the warnings Mark Carney and other | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
experts so derided by Michael Gove gave before the referendum. | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
What is important is people at home grow to understand just what the | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
scale of economic uncertainty and instability has been created by | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
this. Mark Carney is trying to reassure | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
people. He should be reassuring. The fact is | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
his judgments about the economy are the reverse of what was being | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
predicted six months ago when we were beginning to see growth and | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
expecting to see an increase in interest rates, as evidence of the | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
strength of the economy. Although we don't know what will | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
happen in the next year. Of course we don't. This is a | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
worrying time, mortgage lending going down, as Jonty said, the | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
construction industry. If house prices came down in London | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
that might not be bad. That might not be such a bad thing. | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
Different in other parts of the country. London is a very special | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
case. This is now the reality of the | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
uncertainty created by Brexit rolling out. | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
That is why there is an urgent need to create certainty about the terms | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
of negotiation. We will talk about the terms of | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
negotiation in a few minutes. The question for today | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
is when Nigel Farage infamously insulted then European Council | :06:32. | :06:39. | |
President Herman Van Rompuy in 2010, Was it a) never | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
having a "proper job" b) having the "charisma | :06:43. | :06:58. | |
of a damp rag" c) being akin to a | :06:59. | :06:59. | |
"low-grade bank clerk" At the end of the show Tessa | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
will give us the correct answer. Voting is under way | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
in Westminster in the first round of the Conservative Party's | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
leadership election with the five candidates vying | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
for the votes of 330 Here's Giles with the low-down | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
on the candidates and the contest. It has already had | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
Shakespearean overtones. But the stage is now set for a bid | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
not just to be Conservative Party leader but Prime Minister of a UK | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
set on being outside the EU. One of the players so many assumed | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
would take a starring if not the starring role did not even make | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
it out of the wings. Ahead of the first vote | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
of Conservative MPs on Tuesday, we don't have five guys, | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
and none of them are called Mo. Indeed, it is a woman | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
who seems to have the big mo, the big political momentum | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
at the moment. Theresa May was always | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
likely to run. She was Remain but kept a low | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
profile during the Her pitch has been | :08:00. | :08:01. | |
summed up as a serious She is, they say, the safe pair | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
of hands on the tiller. Former special advisers are helping | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
to run her campaign and she has backing | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
from the Daily Mail newspaper. And in the Cabinet, Michael Fallon, | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
Patrick McLaughlin, Also the Cabinet Office's Matt | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
Hancock and significant I want someone who has performed | :08:22. | :08:31. | |
and delivered at the highest level, That was Theresa May | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
from the beginning. Days ago he was going to run | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
Boris Johnson's campaign until he buried him in a publicly | :08:41. | :09:00. | |
brutal act which Boris supporters Now, one of the leaders | :09:01. | :09:02. | |
of the Leave campaign, the reluctant Gove seems to want | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
the job like never before, Skills Minister Nick Boles, a Boris | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
switcher, is running his campaign. His support includes | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
John Whittingdale and Nicky Morgan. He had reluctantly decided this | :09:13. | :09:14. | |
was the course of action But he has seen the situation, | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
and has stepped up to deal with it. Stephen Crabb has long | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
been spotted as future For some, that is | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
still in the future. He is running on a ticket | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
with Business Secretary Sajid Javid But both were Remain | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
in the referendum and that is Apart from being in the Cabinet, | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
they have no significant big support but are picking up | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
new and younger MPs. -- I see him as one | :09:47. | :09:48. | |
of the new generation, That is something incredibly | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
important about the future We need someone who can reach | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
out beyond Westminster. Andrea Leadsom is not | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
a household name but she made a name beyond Westminster | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
with her contribution A staunch Leave campaigner and with | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
39 MPs on board to reflect that. Andrea stands head and shoulders, | :10:10. | :10:22. | |
and brings a freshness. She is tough but with a positive | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
outlook on politics. Then there is Liam Fox, | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
a veteran of leadership campaigns A former Cabinet Minister keen | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
to get back into He was on the other side | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
of the debate of the referendum to me but he is the person | :10:41. | :10:55. | |
to bring us together. He has experience in Government | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
and is widely liked in the country, as a doctor with his background, | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
the sort of person people can see One of these five will not just have | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
to manage a bruised party Simultaneously focusing on how | :11:06. | :11:18. | |
they separate the UK Let's get the latest | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
from our assistant political editor Norman Smith who's outside | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
the committee room in Parliament Have you had your ear against the | :11:27. | :11:38. | |
door? I can see other journalists, what is going on? | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
They are right down the end of the committee corridor this time. | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
All these rooms are booked. I have chatted with Michael Gove who said | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
he is still in there fighting but only just I suspect because you sent | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
the damage done to him by his fratricide on Boris Johnson, that | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
may have hampered his campaign. If you are looking for who will | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
emerge to take on Theresa May, then increasingly it is beginning to look | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
like Andrea Leadsom as the Brexit contender to take a run. She seems | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
to be ahead in terms of the public nominations. | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
That said, there has been a vigorous counter briefing by Team go | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
suggesting she lacks experience, that her performs at the hustings | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
last night was woeful. One Tory minister said to me, we are use to | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
people not answering questions because we don't answer questions, | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
and she wasn't answering questions. There is the view she is still | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
fairly new, and do you really want her to be Prime Minister at such an | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
uncertain time? That said, Michael Gove has an | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
awfully long way to come back if he is to achieve second place. That is | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
the real tussle. We will get an indication when we get the results | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
announced this evening. Let us look at the other end of the | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
stale, who is likely to be dropping out first? | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
If you look at the names declared so far, it would look as if Liam Fox is | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
potentially the most vulnerable. | :13:17. | :13:33. | |
There is a view that last night he stressed a lot of big foreign policy | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
areas and there is a view that maybe he is not pitching for the top job | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
so much but he might be pitching the Foreign Secretary, defence, that | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
might be his game. Stephen Crabb, there is a view it is a bit early | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
for him his pitch as a true blue conservatives, there is mileage in | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
that but maybe this contest is not his contest. | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
He also came unstuck this morning on the Today programme when quizzed | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
about the idea of borrowing ?100 billion to pump into infrastructure. | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
That seems to chuck in the bin all pounds for deficit reduction. I am | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
not sure that has been nailed down. He might struggle to make the final | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
cut. Those two are probably most | :14:10. | :14:11. | |
vulnerable. Thank you. | :14:12. | :14:12. | |
We've been joined by the Conservative MP, Bill Cash. | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
You have spent your career campaigning on the European Union. | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
The UK has voted to leave but there are many different ways that Britain | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
could actually x it the EU. What type of Brexit should Britain aim | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
for? First of all, we need a proper trade | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
agreement. You don't need to be a member of the EU to trade with the | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
EU. We have heard from Australia, New Zealand, even John Kerry of | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
America saying they would trade with us. We have a positive opportunity. | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
We will do it from a position of strength, we are the fifth largest | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
economy in the world. We have a trading record that goes back | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
centuries. Bilateral agreements. What about | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
access to the single market, should Britain be part of it or have access | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
to it? You can't actually be in the single | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
market governed by European laws. Once your appeal the 1972 act, you | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
are out. he can work at bilateral relations | :15:16. | :15:25. | |
with other states and that will happen. You are talking about | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
individual bilateral agreements with all the 27 members? Andrea Ledsom | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
has already been talking, she is a fantastic candidate, the people who | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
have massive international experience of dealing with the EU | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
and the bottom line is that we will be able to achieve it just as other | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
countries have. Let me get direction of the two general. He says we will | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
not be part of the single market, we might want to gain access by | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
bilateral treaties, could mean we wouldn't have to sign up to the | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
other conditions of being a member of the European Union, ie freedom of | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
movement. Though and I overuse of established the degree of profound | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
difference between us on this, but I respect his consistency -- bill and | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
I. It would untold damage to our economy if we are excluded as a | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
result of the Brexit terms to the single market. Because we are denied | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
access to a trading market of 500 million people which has contributed | :16:32. | :16:41. | |
40% of our trade. Of course, the issue which is linked to that is the | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
clear conditionality from everything we have heard from the Council of | :16:47. | :16:54. | |
ministers today, that freedom of movement is inextricably linked to | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
access to the single market. Which is why none of these questions can | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
be answered at the moment because we are in a no man's land. But we need | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
to hear that from the candidates for the Conservative leadership? We do. | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
We now need to open discussions with Europe about what the framework for | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
Brexit terms would be. Theresa May has adjusted her priority would be | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
to negotiate some sort of access for the UK to the single market, as you | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
have clearly said, that would include freedom of movement, the two | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
cannot be broken. Beyond that we don't quite know what's going to be | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
in terms of negotiation, that's why we have to start discussions, | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
without triggering Article 50. Not yet. I think when it should be | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
triggered is a judgment to be made once there is a new Prime Minister, | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
but the existing Prime Minister, who has a duty to maintain government, | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
should start engaging with other European ministers about the terms. | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
One should Britain trigger it? Will run a massive trade deficit every | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
year with the other 27 member states, other ?62 billion a year in | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
exports and imports. Why would we want to deny access to that massive | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
market? We would be dealing with them through the trading | :18:26. | :18:26. | |
arrangements that would be established. Listen. If I may. | :18:27. | :18:35. | |
Basically, Germany on the other hand, has a trade surplus with the | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
same 27 member states of 82 billion. This is not a single market, it's a | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
German single operation. How long will it take to set up all those | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
trade agreements? The average time it takes to set up, Peter Lilley has | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
been doing a lot of work on this and it's not as long as people are | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
making out, and maybe a couple of years or so but not as long as | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
people think. The evidence from really experienced negotiators is it | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
doesn't take as long as some are claiming. You are clear that the | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
candidates who have thrown their hat into the ring have different views | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
about how the negotiations should proceed. That is why I'm supporting | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
Andrea Ledsom, she has the experience, she can deliver this. | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
She has the most massive experience in the setting up, she | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
understands... One should shape if she wins, drug Article 50? -- when | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
should she, if she wins drug Article 50. It means reasonably soon. I will | :19:35. | :19:44. | |
say this. It is going to start sooner or later, but actually right | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
now, the situation is bedevilled by this proposal to go to the courts. | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
What do you think about this proposal? Lets just say what it is. | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
You are a strong defender of the sovereignty of Parliament. Why | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
shouldn't the House of Commons have a vote on Brexit before the Prime | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
Minister formally triggers article 50? Without going into detail, the | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
argument are based on a complete misconception about the European | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
Community. But what about the idea of the 70 of Parliament? Because the | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
EU institutions, they put out a statement on June 29, all the member | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
states and institutions have said it is the government to make the | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
decision and by constitutional law it belongs to the prerogative, it's | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
a matter for the government to bring it into effect. Except you did argue | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
and others did argue about line by line on the Maastricht Treaty, for | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
example? Why can't Parliament have a chance? I think there are two | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
points. The constitutional laws would say broadly that democracy | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
trumps interpretation of the consideration or position and there | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
has been a referendum which concluded that we should leave the | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
EU. That's the first point. I think the second point is that it will be | :21:08. | :21:15. | |
important for Parliament to be in gauge in this, and I think that we | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
have two be clear about the scale, if this is the case, of unforeseen | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
detriment to the economy and well-being of people in the UK, as a | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
result of leaving the EU. You think they should be a second referendum | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
if there is a clear change in public mood? I don't think there should but | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
there should be a critical issue and what I expect to be a general | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
election which a new Prime Minister is elected. If you are doing it | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
shouldn't be a separate act of Parliament before negotiations are | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
actually triggered, then it's going to be decided, the Brexit | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
negotiations will be decided by Tory grassroots members in the shires? We | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
already have an act of Parliament, it's called the European Union | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
referendum act, which depleted the basis on which we go forward. But we | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
don't know what Brexit is going to look like. People will say that | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
broadly speaking, of course there was that act of Parliament in place | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
is it your view of Brexit or Theresa May's view? They are very different | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
as you have admitted. I can only see that it is quite clear that Andrea | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Ledsom and those who agree with her and those like myself are quite | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
clear about this. Article 50 will be invoked almost certainly in the | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
reasonably near future but not until we have managed... That was for the | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
referendum was about. That was to leave and we didn't know what shape | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
it's going to be, now we're getting a flavour, shouldn't Parliament have | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
a say? That was inherited the outcome of the referendum, the | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
verdict has been given, leave means leave, entry is right and able to | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
deal with the Mandarin problem which is reversing the civil service -- | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
Andrea is right. You need a strong character who truly understands the | :23:10. | :23:11. | |
European issue to deal with all that. I think the Brexiteers are too | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
willing to live with the uncertainty regardless of the cost to the | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
country. This country has got to continue to have a functioning | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
government will stop it well. The promised to should be engaged in | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
early stages of discussion now in the remaining months. The Prime | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
Minister should be. It doesn't look too good at the moment for your | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
party. Can I come back to this issue, it is right for Britain's | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
feature outside the EU to be shaped by 330 MPs and the ballots of | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
grassroots members and then at the general election for the country to | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
decide and vote on in terms of Brexit? We had presented the ocean | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
when John Major took over. -- the same situation. I think there's a | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
great deal of Armageddon pulp on the economy and the constitution. We had | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
percentage ocean with Gordon Brown. He was fatally flawed. -- we had the | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
same situation. I think he was floored for other reasons. Andrea | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
Ledsom will be extremely good as a Prime Minister. The new Prime | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
Minister should call a general election. What about the reports of | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
postings that Andrea Ledsom, according to one Tory MP, said it | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
was a car crash performance and went down as a cup of cold sick? I think | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
that is extremely wrong and typical of the kind of disinformation that | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
gets put out. Other people who weren't there who are commenting... | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
This is an election people sometimes say things to diminish the chances | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
of other people. I don't agree with that verdict, Andrea did a very good | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
job, she was brilliant in the press conference earlier in the day and in | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
other meetings, she is a first-class candidate and I say she should be | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
the next Prime Minister. I think that clue! -- that clue! | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
Jeremy Corbyn may still have more gaps in his Shadow front bench team | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
than the England football team's defence but the Labour | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
leader is still in post despite 80% of his MPs | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
At last night's meeting of the parliamentary Labour Party, | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
the deputy leader Tom Watson said he would meet union representatives | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
today as a last role of the dice in the leadership crisis, | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
presumably to ask them to help persuade Mr Corbyn to stand aside. | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
If Mr Corbyn refuses, he faces a leadership challenge | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
and the question will then be, does he need to secure scores | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
of nominations to get back onto the ballot paper? | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
Mark Lobel has been getting to grips with the Labour Party rule book. | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
I want to reach out to all our members. Despite his large ditch | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
appeal for party unity yesterday, at least one MP, Angela Eagle, says she | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
will challenge his leadership if he doesn't resign. But many fear a | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
contest will be highly acrimonious and may end up in the courts, | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
because of differing interpretations of Labour Party rules about how a | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
contender makes the ballot. The rules state where there is no | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
vacancy, nominations may be sought... | :26:24. | :26:38. | |
That means at least 51 MPs or MEPs. Jeremy Corbyn's ally, John | :26:39. | :26:47. | |
McDonnell, insisted mystical than would automatically make the ballot. | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
He is the leader of the Labour Party, you staying leader of the | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
Labour Party and if there is a challenge, they will be a democratic | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
election, Germany will stand, he is automatically on the ballot paper | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
under our rules. -- Jeremy will stand. | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
They say these words mean only challenges and not the incumbent | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
need to get MPs to back their nomination, which is important | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
because mystical than would struggle to get enough MPs to back him after | :27:16. | :27:22. | |
the no-confidence vote last week. One senior insider told with they | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
were divided for a different reason, to protect the incumbent from | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
frivolous challenges to their leadership such as happened to | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
Gordon Brown when he was Prime Minister. The insider insisted it | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
was meant to exclude the incumbent from needing nominations of MPs. And | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
those on the anti-Corbin Wing point to the words in the nomination, | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
which they say underline the fact that any nominee would need the | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
support of MPs to take part, a point underlined by Neil Kinnock this | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
weekend. The cottage ocean provides, very sensibly, for a party in | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
Parliament -- the constitution. And also provides that the leader of the | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
party must have a substantial amount of backing from Labour members of | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
Parliament. So who would resolve this dispute? This man, Ian McNicol. | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
We have spoken to the former general secretary who told me he alone often | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
made clear what the rules were in the past in similar circumstances. | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
Reports suggest he has already received legal advice. What could | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
that have been? We spoke to a lawyer who advises the Labour Party on | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
issues like this. There is a clash of interpretation of the rules, | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
they're not fully thought through and that has left an ambiguity which | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
is why, as I understand it, the party and the newspapers are getting | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
conflicting legal advice on this. Clear as mud then! If there are | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
still doubts about the rules, then the ab initio to committee decides | :28:55. | :29:02. | |
-- administrative committee. It is made of the trade unions, the | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
socialist societies and black Asian and polarity representatives, the | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
constituency Labour parties, evenly balanced and labour councillors who | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
are not on the side of Jeremy Corbyn like the PLP members. Overall the | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
estimate 60 members in favour and 17 against. | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
To answer that, from the BBC's political research | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
Hi, Mark, it is not as simple as that. | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
It is not like a one member, one vote process where everyone puts | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
Not even a big vote at the end of any NTC decision. | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
It is a mixture of compromise and consensus. | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
You need to win people over from different sections of the NEC. | :29:46. | :30:00. | |
If they state that Jeremy Corbyn needs to find and emissions or not, | :30:01. | :30:11. | |
that would probably be followed. If not then ultimately they could be a | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
legal challenge by one side or the other and this might end up in the | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
High Court. Now you can see what both sides want to avoid the need | :30:23. | :30:23. | |
for an embarrassing showdown. And we've been joined from Glasgow | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
by Rhea Wolfson who is standing for election to Labour's | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
NEC this summer. At least four of the 40 MPs who | :30:32. | :30:41. | |
backed Germany, McCutcheon Jeremy Corbyn have now changed their mind | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
and think he should stand down, is in his position now not tenable? | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
I think it is difficult and harmful to the party the way people are | :30:51. | :30:58. | |
interacting. But I don't think it is untenable, as long as Jeremy sticks | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
to the Prince was he stood for which is respect for the membership, and | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
democracy. I hope the Parliamentary Labour Party also fall in ninth and | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
recognise Jeremy is standing not just for himself but for the | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
members. Isn't that a naive view. They won't | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
fall in line. 80% are clear they want him to go. | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
I think it is hopeful rather than naive. | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
I have spent the last week travelling all over the country | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
speaking to thousands of members as part of this campaign, and to talk | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn and the leadership. They are devastated. | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
They hope as party activists they can continue advocating for the | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
party. What evidence is there Jeremy Corbyn | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
has lost the support of the Labour Party membership? | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
Polling shows his support is collapsing. | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
It doesn't show it is collapsing. The numbers who come up to me in the | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
street and say, can't you get a new leader, the Labour Party is dying. | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
In the last two meetings of the Parliamentary Labour Party, they | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
were so passionate, so upset, so angry about Jeremy Corbyn's refusal | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
to stand down. The rules as your film showed may be | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
unclear and open to interpretation. What is not unclear if there is no | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
confidence in Jeremy Corbyn in the Parliamentary Labour Party. | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
He is now bound to maintain support of his MPs. | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
He has lost that. Part of that is compounded by the degree of | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
intimidation and abuse, the fear with which members, Labour MPs's | :32:54. | :33:02. | |
staff coming to work every day, they fear the threat of intimidation and | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
worse. Before that, members are equally | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
upset, we hear, and devastated, by this challenge to Jeremy Corbyn who | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
was democratically elected. Do you accept the party is split between | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
the Parliamentary party and its membership? | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
I don't. That presumes that Members of Parliament are not in touch with | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
their members, engaging with their members every weekend. They were | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
bringing back to the Parliamentary party last night and the week before | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
the result of consultation with activists who overwhelmingly by | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
their accounts one Jeremy Corbyn to do the decent thing for the Labour | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
Party and stand down. What do you say about this anecdotal | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
evidence and claims from MPs of intimidation and fear? | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
If MPs are suffering this, it is not acceptable, it is not the mood I | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
have seen at the meetings I have been to. It has been sadness and | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
frustration but not intimidation or anger. | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
Anecdotally the party is split. At the rallies we have been having, | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
25,000 people have engaged, the membership has grown by over 60,000. | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
Over half had joined to support Jeremy Corbyn. It is a fallacy to | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
save his support is collapsing. Whilst I recognise there is a | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
division, clearly the PLP are not listening to all their members. | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
Angela Eagle, her local constituency passed a motion in support of Jeremy | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
Corbyn. I feel frustrated and that is | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
replicated across the country. What do you say? I talked to Angela, | :34:54. | :35:01. | |
she faced homophobic abuse at that meeting. Talked to MPs around the | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
country. Under the influence of momentum, activists and Members of | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
Parliament and their staff are facing, day in, day out, harassment, | :35:13. | :35:20. | |
and in some cases intimidation. And I famously remember, I was in | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
the Labour Party fighting all this in the 1980s, that was militant | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
then, it is momentum now, they are different RDs. But they are neither | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
bodies respecting the wider electorate that monster see a Labour | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
Government. That respect is slipping further and further. That is what | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
was talked about last night at the Parliamentary Labour Party by Neil | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
Kinnock. He knows about this from the 1980s, | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
he reminded MPs that people in supermarkets told them Ed Miliband | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
was not electable and asked to apply that supermarket test to Jeremy | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
Corbyn, which he passed it? I think he would. | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
You need to get out more. That is insulting that I am not on | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
the doorstep. I am a party activist. I have been beside you, I have | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
campaigned everywhere, in Scotland for the Scottish elections and | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
working hard for the council elections. So do these momentum | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
activists. They are not on the fringes of the party. Councillors | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
and local representatives are involved. It is insulting to say | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
otherwise. Do you agree if it carries on there | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
will be a split because there is nothing to reconcile both sides of | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
the party. Shouldn't it be a case that you and the MPs left and the | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
Labour Party members form a new party? Or Tessa Jowell does the | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
same. No, me and those of my politics are | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
not leaving the Labour Party. We are here to make sure the Labour Party | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
has a prospect of representing the people of this country in | :37:09. | :37:09. | |
Government. What do you say? | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
There should be no split in the party, it would be devastating for | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
those who need a Labour Government. I am devastated we are not governing | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
at the moment. It is really sad. I don't want a split. | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
You wouldn't suggest there should be some declaration of Independence by | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
MPs against Jeremy Corbyn. There would be more of you, you could set | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
up in opposition. This reminds me of a great | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
decoration of Ted Knight Way back in the early 1980s when he stood up at | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
a public meeting and said there can be no compromise with the | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
electorate. It is the people of this country who want a Labour Party they | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
can believe in, who are being so badly let down by Jeremy Corbyn's | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
refusal to do the decent thing in the interests of our party. | :38:02. | :38:08. | |
Rhea Wolfson, we know there will be another plea for him to go. | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
I hope the unions continue to support Jeremy Corbyn. And I will | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
stand by him as he continues to represent the membership of the | :38:20. | :38:20. | |
Labour Party. While much of Westminster is focused | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
on the small matter of who should be the Prime Minister and Leader | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
Of The Opposition, teachers across England are out | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
on a one-day strike. The National Union Of Teachers | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
called the strike over pay, Our education dditor | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
Branwen Jeffreys joins us 3000 teachers have set off on a | :38:34. | :38:45. | |
march through the city. Is there anything different to this strike | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
and to previous one-day strikes by teachers? | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
The focus of all the teachers who set off if you minutes ago from | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
here, several hundreds of them, is mainly about education funding. They | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
point to figures from the Independent Institute for fiscal in | :39:04. | :39:05. | |
which show although the amount of money spent on schools is going up, | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
the amount per pupil is going to fall over the next few years. They | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
say that is leading to job losses with more expected in the future, | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
and bigger class sizes. Just a quarter of the new team members | :39:21. | :39:31. | |
actually voted in the ballot other amongst those who did the support | :39:32. | :39:33. | |
was overwhelming. Why was it such a low turnout in | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
terms of the ones who decided to take part in the ballot if there is | :39:37. | :39:38. | |
such strength of feeling about educating -- education funding? | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
It is an exceptionally low turnout, there is a dispute with the | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
Government, and the NAS UWT. Some are waiting for the pay review body | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
on what they should be paid, to come back. | :39:55. | :39:56. | |
I understand that could be in the next couple of days, many teachers | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
will be waiting to see what the offer is from the Government | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
although we know pay restraint across the public sector remains in | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
place. There is no doubt some of the | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
concerns are more widely shared. Initial information from around the | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
country is quite a lot of schools are open and this strike is quite | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
patchy. Perhaps some teachers don't feel | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
motivated enough at the moment to come out on strike on these issues. | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
One other interesting thing this morning we had BMA junior doctors | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
representatives who are themselves balloting on their own industrial | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
action, here in support of the entity. | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
There was a time when the BMA and a new would have been unlikely | :40:40. | :40:40. | |
bedfellows. We've been joined by the acting | :40:41. | :40:41. | |
general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
Kevin Courtney, and by Toby Young, who set up | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
a Free School in west London. We also asked the Department | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
for Education for an interview with a minister, but none | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
was available. Kevin Courtney, are you playing | :40:52. | :41:02. | |
politics with children's future as the Education Secretary has said? | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
Not at all, we are reticulated a demand, we are on strike for our | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
young people. We are hearing stories of schools were class sizes are | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
going up to 35, where art, dance, drama teachers are being made | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
redundant and not replaced, where the subjects on a longer offered in | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
secondary schools. Where classroom assistants are being dismissed, | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
where individual attention to children is going down. It is making | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
life hard for our young people and their headteachers. | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
Why only 24% of your membership have taken part? | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
That is a good question, the 92% was a high majority. | :41:44. | :41:50. | |
Of the 24%. That shows we are on the right issue. It is a big sample. A | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
lot of people are supporting it. About 6000 people have joined the | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
union since announcing the strike. It is a low turnout. We want to do | :42:01. | :42:09. | |
electronic balloting. The fundamental question is teachers | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
don't think we can win. It is the right issue but they are not | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
convinced we can win. Let us talk about the funding, these | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
warnings that spending per pupil, not overall spending, in schools in | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
England is likely to fall by 8% in real terms. | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
What do you say? Education is one of the department | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
that has been ring-fenced. That is the overall envelope. | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
Along with international and health. The IFS percolated spending on | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
schools increased by 3% in real terms. | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
I have asked you per pupil. I want you to answer the question | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
about per-pupil funding. With your experience at the London free | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
school, there is an increase in pupil numbers and there are rising | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
costs. The envelope may be going up, but | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
not keeping pace with the other costs. | :43:10. | :43:11. | |
The rising costs are not to do with cuts in the school budget but mainly | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
to do with increasing obligations on schools to contribute to NI | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
cogitations and pensions. And the public sector pay freeze which seems | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
reasonable given inflation is at zero. I accept there will be some | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
real terms cuts. One thing I would say in response is that there is | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
very little international evidence to link spending per pupil with | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
pupil outcomes. The head of the programme for | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
International student assessment said variation in spending per pupil | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
only accounted for 20% in variation in pupil outcomes because it mainly | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
means, the increase, almost double the expenditure on schools since | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
1997, has meant smaller class sizes. There was no link between pupil | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
outcomes and class sizes. If we don't have dance, drama, arts | :44:13. | :44:20. | |
teachers, there will be no GCSEs in those subjects. There is a big link | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
with exam grades. We are talking about spending per | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
pupil. If you increase that significantly, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
do the outcomes improve? Look at the results in London where | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
spending per pupil is higher. There is a pronounced link. | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
Toby is a bright the charges on schools is pronounced, national | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
insurance and pension conclusions. These school governing body at your | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
school will have to find her every 20 teachers an extra teacher's | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
salary to pay back to the Treasury when the Treasury is freezing the | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
per-pupil money. That is the cause of teachers being sacked, arts | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
teachers, the cause of last sizes going up. I have heard the argument | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
class size does not matter, that is not correct. People who pay for | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
private education are paying for smaller class sizes. | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
They are being ripped off. When teacher shortage is so pronounced | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
because of unnecessary workload, if you increase class sizes, you | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
increase that workload. There is strong evidence from | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
schools locally to me in London they are struggling to recruit in those | :45:35. | :45:35. | |
subjects. That is reality. In my school is there a four | :45:36. | :45:49. | |
squalls, not one, we haven't fired any music or drama teachers, they | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
are both thriving as departments. I think my main bone of contention | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
with you is not that there aren't good to be real term cuts... There | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
is going to be a squeeze. My issue is, when has a one-day wildcat | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
strike like this ever achieved anything? The NUT is already having | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
constructive talks with Nicky Morgan, she is really working with | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
you on reducing teacher workload, she has published three reports, we | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
know that the strikes never achieve anything, why break off talks on its | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
going reasonably well? It's not going reasonably well at all. It's | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
important we are taking action now. The origination of this action | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
cannot with the break-up of pay and academising across the country. We | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
have asked Nicky Morgan for evidence that any other country does that, | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
any other high performing education jurisdiction, none of them have, | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
Finland, South Korea, Singapore. There is no evidence base. Can you | :46:53. | :46:59. | |
achieve anything? I think we can. The reason for our turnout being | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
reasonably low is because members think we can't but we are very | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
messages of support from thousands of parents, from a group called Mr | :47:06. | :47:13. | |
Our Schools, parents understand we are raising issues that matter to | :47:14. | :47:14. | |
them. Tomorrow Sir John Chilcot | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
will finally publish his report into the UK's involvement | :47:20. | :47:21. | |
in the 2003 Iraq War. It's a significant moment - | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
with many people expecting it to provide a definitive verdict | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
on Tony Blair's role in taking the country to war | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
against Saddam Hussain. In a moment we'll discuss | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
the potential impact First though, here's | :47:33. | :47:34. | |
a reminder of what Sir John What I was saying to President Bush | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
it is very clear and simple. It is, you can count on us, we will | :47:39. | :49:15. | |
be with you in tackling this, I was having to persuade him to take | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
a view radically different from many of the people | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
in his administration. So what I was saying | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
to him is, I'm going to be I'm not going to push you down this | :49:26. | :49:27. | |
path, and then back out when it gets too hot politically, | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
because it is going to get hot I haven't seen the report, nobody | :49:34. | :49:53. | |
has, we will know tomorrow. As Sir John Chilcot said, the purpose of | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
the report was to understand the lessons of Iraq and I think by | :50:00. | :50:07. | |
general consent, the controversy with hindsight about the invasion of | :50:08. | :50:15. | |
Iraq has affected... It's almost paralysed our foreign policy since | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
that time. So I hope that what Sir John Chilcot will do is to, with the | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
informed benefit of hindsight, be very clear about what kind of | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
foresight planning we fail to take proper account. I think that again, | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
I was a member of the Cabinet that supported the innovation because of | :50:43. | :50:51. | |
all the evidence, what is clear that we were not nearly sufficiently | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
involved and engaged with planning the aftermath. This is clear and | :50:56. | :51:04. | |
there is consensus... I think the charge that people like Jeremy | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
Corbyn and John McDonnell will be looking at is whether Tony Blair had | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
already decided and agreed with George Bush to go to war. Let me | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
make a point about that. We have at an earlier discussion about why | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is not standing down and so forth. It is the purpose of | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's life's mission to be able to denounce Tony Blair as of | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
the criminal tomorrow. That is, I believe, a large part of what he | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
wants to hang on. I hope that Sir John Chilcot's report will give us | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
very clear exposition of what happened, interpretation of what | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
happens, but also will point to the future framing of decisions about | :51:50. | :51:57. | |
foreign policy, about engagement with governments in supporting | :51:58. | :52:06. | |
action against the radical regimes and so on -- tyrannical regimes. But | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
is the future policy for intervention, which has so paralysed | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
not just our government but governments around the world, | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
sometimes to the great detriment of countries that might have benefited? | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
Let's be very clear, Jeremy Corbyn wants to tell Sir Tony Blair that he | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
is a war criminal. They will be those that oppose him in that. I can | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
only say they have to have evidence from the report, don't believe that | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
evidence will be there. Sir John Chilcot has already made clear that | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
part of his remit is not to judge the legality. We will find out | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
tomorrow. Now it's time to find out | :52:48. | :52:48. | |
the answer to our quiz. When Nigel Farage infamously | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
insulted the then European Council President Herman Van Rompuy in 2010, | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
what did he NOT accuse him of? b) Having the "charisma | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
of a damp rag". c) Being akin to a "low-grade bank | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
clerk". I think he has usually those in | :53:08. | :53:21. | |
relation to different people! You are right, but which one did he not | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
attached to Herman Van Rompuy? Didn't he say that he had the | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
charisma of a damp rag? He did... It was the first one, never have a | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
proper job. All the others he did a tribute to Herman Van Rompuy. | :53:43. | :53:43. | |
speech to the President Of The European Council and former | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy, Nigel Farage | :53:48. | :53:49. | |
said Mr Van Rompuy had "the charisma of a damp rag", | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
was akin to a "low-grade bank clerk", and came | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
Last week, after the UK voted to leave the EU, | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
Nigel Farage used a speech in the European Parliament | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
"Virtually none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives." | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
Let's take a look at that clip and some other highlights | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
from Nigel Farage's time at the top of Ukip. | :54:08. | :54:16. | |
It seems to me that you have given away ?7 million of British taxpayers | :54:17. | :54:27. | |
money for nothing in return. Use it with our country flag, did not | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
represent our country's interests. -- use it. | :54:32. | :54:47. | |
They all look a little bit like goldfish. That have just been tipped | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
out of the ball onto the floor. Desperately gasping for air and | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
clinging on to the comfort blanket that is, this is a protest vote. | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
This is number one! The world's greatest leader! | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
I am a man of my work, don't Break my word so I shall be writing to the | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
Ukip National executive in a few minutes, saying that I am standing | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
down as leader of Ukip. Isn't it funny? When I came here 17 years ago | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
and I said that I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
European Union, you all laughed at me. Well I have to say, you're not | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
laughing now, are you? So, with Nigel Farage standing | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
down as Ukip leader, who will be the next to run | :55:46. | :55:47. | |
the UK Independence Party We've been joined by the party's | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
former deputy chairman Suzanne Evans, who is currently | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
suspended from the party. Did you expect him to stand down? | :55:55. | :56:04. | |
No, I was surprised but I understand why, the latest in his lifetime | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
ambition to get us out of the European Union, now we have this | :56:09. | :56:10. | |
momentous vote which will stand, let's be clear about that. So yes, | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
out on a high, why not? Most political careers don't and like | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
that. Will he keep out of the spotlight? I very much doubt it. I | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
think whoever takes over as leader of Ukip will perhaps believe his | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
input. Except he clashed with all the major party figures including | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
yourself, Douglas Carswell, Patrick Fling and Neil Hamilton, will it be | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
less divisive without him? I think it will. Nigel is a Marmite | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
character, I think now for the leader, we need somebody who is more | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
embracing, who shows it's not a one-man and order a single issue | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
party, and also a party that attracts more women. By looking | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
behind you, you see, neither did have an all-male team very often. | :57:02. | :57:09. | |
What about you? You were suspended for the moment, what about you? I | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
hope the party might overturn my suspension to allow me to stand. I | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
always said if he stood down I would like to have a go at it and I think | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
it's a shame I find myself in this position of being suspended, | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
apparently for criticising a homophobic candidate, not something | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
most people would think would be a disloyal thing to do in politics, so | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
I hope I can be on the ballot paper. What is happening in the suspension? | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
I did appeal, but it became clear early on that the appeal panel had | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
already prejudge the outcome. When I was originally suspended I wasn't | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
allowed to put any evidence to the panel to defend myself, I wasn't | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
even there, it looked like it would be a repeat of the same. So I have | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
actually withdrawn from that appeal. We shall see. I getting support from | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
people who want me to be on the ballot paper, e-mails, phone calls, | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
we shall see. I hope the party does the right thing. And if not EU, who | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
would you back? I am not going to say, I want to see who puts | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
themselves forward and what policies, I don't want someone to | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
take over Ukip and taken to the far right, we need a more common sense, | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
centre ground party who can afford to conservative voters in the south | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
and Labour voters in the North. There is your pitch for the | :58:40. | :58:40. | |
leadership! You heard it here first! Thanks to Tessa Jowell | :58:41. | :58:42. | |
and all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
over on BBC One now. I'll be back at 11.30 tomorrow | :58:46. | :58:52. | |
with Andrew for live coverage Dip into a summer of | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
amazing live music, | :58:59. | :59:07. |