Browse content similar to 08/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The next Conservative leader will either be | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom, and one of them will be in 10 | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Downing Street by early September at the latest. | :00:46. | :00:53. | |
As the contest moves from Westminster to the party's | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
members, will May's experience win out, or can Leave campaigner Leadsom | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
Speaking of coups, Labour's seems to be on hold at the moment. | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
But, with 100,000 new members joining since the Brexit vote, | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
the party's internal battle is far from over. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
Remain voters still feeling a bit tearful can take comfort | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
from a new paper being launched this morning, just for them, | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
What will MEPs miss about their monthly jaunts | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
to the European Parliament in Strasbourg? | :01:32. | :01:39. | |
And with us for the first half of the programme today, | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
She only left me if you moments ago on BBC One! | :01:46. | :02:00. | |
I have been sleeping under the table! | :02:01. | :02:01. | |
She writes for the FT and this week she's been writing | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
about whether it's OK to embellish your CV. | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
So, when she tells you she used to be Lib Dem leader and she's | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
about to take over as presenter of Top Gear, you'll | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
First today, there's one big story across the front pages this | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
morning and that's the news that the next Conservative leader | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
and Prime Minister will be either Home Secretary Theresa May | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
or the Energy Minister Andrea Leadsom. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
Much has been made of the fact that Britain is to have a female | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
PM for the first time since Margaret Thatcher left | :02:32. | :02:33. | |
Only the second in our long Parliamentary history. | :02:34. | :02:44. | |
And the comparisons with Maggie are flowing thick and fast, either | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
favourably or unfavourably depending on your political persuasion. | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
Let's have a listen to both women speaking after they were chosen | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
as the final two candidates in a ballot of Conservative MPs. | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
We need proven leadership to negotiate the best deal | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
for leaving the European Union, to unite our party and our country, | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
and to make Britain a country that works not for the privileged few | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
Obviously very exciting, and the great news is | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
we have an all-female short list with no positive | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
discrimination or anything, isn't that fantastic? | :03:19. | :03:19. | |
So, we have a female Scottish First Minister, a female leader of the | :03:20. | :03:34. | |
Scottish Tories, if female leader of Scottish Labour, a German female | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Chancellor, about to have a second British Prime Minister, and may be | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
an American female president. In the 21st century, we are moving | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
to a situation where the fact that someone is female is moving down the | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
agenda? It is either that, or time to | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
celebrate a new dawn of a female age and female leadership being | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
recognised as having the same potential as male. When you look at | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Scottish politics, it has been really significant all but one of | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
the party leaders in Scotland has been female for a while. Someone | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
like Ruth Davidson is an absolute star, as is Nicola Sturgeon. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
It is cause to celebrate. The problem that can happen on the left | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
is that when you get women like Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom | :04:30. | :04:39. | |
rising to the very top, because they do not fit their idea of a | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
conventional feminist, they are dismissed as not quite right. | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
You can have a problem where the woman to hand is not quite woman | :04:44. | :04:45. | |
enough, which is hopeless. It should be celebrated. When Barack | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
Obama was about to win, some of the black activists said he is not | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
enough! You have to be careful. Why is it that the Conservatives | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
have produced a female short list but they are against female short | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
lists. And the Labour Party which is in favour and the Lib Dems, neither | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
have been anywhere near having a female leader. | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
It is true, a year ago, the Labour Party had really good women on the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
list potentially for the leadership, deputy leadership and candidate for | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
London mayor. And then it turned out to be all-male when the vote came | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
in. The left has a problem. People get slightly twisted with the | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
identity politics, to do with categorising people all the time | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
when the right is relaxed about individualism. | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
Having said that, there aren't enough women in politics generally | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
and things must be changed structurally to allow women in, this | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
is still important. In 1975, it was a huge issue that | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
Margaret Thatcher would become leader of the Conservative Party. It | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
is not a huge issue now that either to May or Andrea Leadsom will be | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
leader, that is a change in attitude. | :06:10. | :06:19. | |
So, now we know the final two in the race to be the next leader | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
of the Conservative Party and, consequently, the next | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
She brings her experience as one of the longest home secretaries to the | :06:25. | :06:58. | |
job. While she insists Brexit is Brexit, she was on the remain | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
campsite in the referendum which could count against her. Andrea | :07:03. | :07:11. | |
Leadsom is the new face. As Energy Minister, she has not sat in the | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Cabinet, and has been an MP since only 2010. A prominent role in the | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
Leave campaign puts on the same side as many conservative members. Her | :07:23. | :07:31. | |
supporters claim she is a fresh face. Andrea Leadsom was also | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
Grammar School educated. She has a degree in political science from | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
Warwick University. She had a career in finance, experience which makes | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
up for her lack of time in Government, according to her | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
supporters. Yesterday, she was forced to defend just how good those | :07:51. | :07:58. | |
credentials. Now it is down to local party members. Ben Gatsby is chair | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
of the Thurrock Conservative Association. And Michael are still | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
joins us from Plymouth as chair of the South West Devon Conservative | :08:11. | :08:12. | |
Association. Why is Theresa May your candidate? | :08:13. | :08:23. | |
It comes down to experience. As a country, this will be an interesting | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
couple of years. It is no time for a novice. Theresa May has been Home | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
Secretary, received briefings which would keep me up at night, she knows | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
what she is doing. Andrea is not tested. | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
Michael, no time for a novice? First of all, I am very delighted we | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
have two ladies in the contest. I have been reading about her and | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
she is passionate about the job. She has some experience and what she | :08:59. | :09:06. | |
sees in her role could be very good said getting part of the EU. I don't | :09:07. | :09:16. | |
think we should -- I think we should wait for the months ahead and let | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
the membership decide in good time. Andrea Leadsom. | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
She is new, even to her supporters, clearly. Is it important the next | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
Prime Minister was a Leave campaigner? | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
Yes, it is for me. Because I was vote lead, I work very hard as did | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
others. And the result was the clear result that we should now get ahead | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
and put that into motion. What do you say to that? | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
Because it looks like most Conservative Party members voted to | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
leave. And, for them, Mrs Mabel is on the wrong side of the argument, | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
why pick someone like that as your next leader? | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
As Michael said, the result is the result. Teresa has been cleared | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Brexit means Brexit. There wasn't any reason to be worried about that. | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
There is a country still to be governed. | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
We still have schools, hospitals, transport, all the other things that | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
take up an entire cabinet minister's time. | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
Will people who voted to leave not fear she is half-hearted and may not | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
try to drive a hard enough bargain and may settle for a Norwegian or a | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
Swiss halfway house? One of the problems with the Leave | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
campaign is no one set out what Brexit should look like. | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
Teresa will have to think hard. She will need to set out what she | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
thinks that should look like in the coming months. | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
When she says Brexit means Brexit, that is clear. | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
But there are very many varieties of Brexit. | :11:07. | :11:15. | |
Michael, there is a country to govern. And we don't know much about | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
Andrea Leadsom's position on the non-EU issues. Don't we need to find | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
out and maybe doesn't she need to seek a mandate from the country if | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
she wins? No, I wouldn't think we need a | :11:33. | :11:42. | |
general election. We had a general election, this Conservatives had a | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
good majority. I think we need to go ahead and Andrea will put her ideas | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
forward in the ensuing months. And I think she hasn't got the experience | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
of her counterpart but I think she will come out and give clear | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
information on how she is going to deal with as leaving the EU and | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
getting a good deal. What are her chances? She is coming | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
from behind, not the favourite, what are her chances. I think she has a | :12:22. | :12:30. | |
very good chance of winning. And the support of me and many of my | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
friends, some not actually in the Conservative Party. | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
But they won't have the vote. No, but it is nice to hear that | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
other people, some Ukip friends that I have who are in touch with me to | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
say that they, that she would be their choice. | :12:51. | :13:06. | |
Thanks you very much for joining us. James cleverly, what | :13:07. | :13:07. | |
reassurances does Theresa May have to give that she will not be looking | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
for a Brexit - light solution. I think she has given all the | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
reassurances that I need. I campaign very hard for Brexit, so did Chris | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
Grayling, Priti Patel and Liam Fox. All of us take her experience as her | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
bond. When she says she will campaign for a proper Brexit that | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
works for Britain, that is what she will deliver. | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
Not a Norwegian halfway house? She has not mention that, no one in her | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
team has mentioned that. There will be a British model. | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
Because, before the Norwegians negotiated their position, there was | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
no model on the shelf to be deployed. | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
We will make a Brexit that works for Britain, I am confident Theresa May | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
will deliver that. Given her failed record on | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
immigration, she cannot be seen to give anything on the free movement. | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
One of the reasons I campaigned so hard for Brexit is I was very | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
conscious Theresa May and James Brokenshire I were doing sterling | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
work but were limited in their ability to deliver because of the | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
constraints put on us by our membership of the EU. | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
They set a target of 100,000 net migration. Even if no one had come | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
from the EU, they wouldn't have hit that target, net moderation from | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
non-EU was 180 8000. The bits of immigration they did control they | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
could not even get that down to the target. | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
The thing I identified with regard to our membership of the EU, it | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
doesn't matter how fair your immigration policy is, you can't | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
deploy a policy whilst being members of the EU. | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
Why? We have total control for outside the EU. If Theresa May could | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
not control that, why, when we have no EU controls on that, why would we | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
trust has good control immigration when we are outside the EU? | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
I completely trust her to control immigration. There still hospitals | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
to be run, transport to be run, policing to be run. It is important | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
we discuss Brexit but it is also important we recognise we need a | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
leader who can deal with all the other elements of government that | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
still need to be delivered. What is her policy on Heathrow and Gatwick | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
runway is? I don't have the inside track of all the policies. We don't | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
know? Andrea and to Reza will be touring the country setting out | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
their agenda for government. -- Theresa May. I won't try and... You | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
said there is a country to govern. We don't know. It may also be true | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
of Andrea Leadsom, we don't know what Theresa May stands for outside | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
the six years she has been in the Home Office? When she came to the | :16:10. | :16:19. | |
1922... She made an explicit statement on HS2. I don't want to be | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
drawn on all her policy announcements because she will want | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
to announce those as part of her campaign to become the next Prime | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
Minister in the next few months. Has it not been to her detriment that | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
she is prepared to make EU nationals already living in this country a | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
bargaining chip? When I was in business I did a lot of negotiating. | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
One of the first rules of negotiating, you don't give away | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
negotiating points. I know that, how would you, why would you make people | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
living in this country EU nationals, who's been here, law-abiding | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
citizens, working away, why would you make them bargaining chips? She | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
was asked a question and she answered it. We don't have any | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
assurances from the EU that UK nationals... Why will that matter? | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
In a negotiation you need to keep as many options open as possible. Every | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
EU national watching this programme today should be uncertain about | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
their future, because you want to make them part of the negotiation | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
process? No, you brought it up, I didn't bring it up. Excuse me, | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
Theresa May brought up. She didn't, she was asked a direct question and | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
she said as a general point of principle she wasn't going to start | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
renegotiating with the media before she even steps into the room with | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
the European Parliament. She said the position of the EU nationals | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
would be part of the negotiations. The point I made in a previous | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
programme, even the most radical of leaders said EU nationals should not | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
worry, that their position will be protected when we leave the EU. Why | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
can Theresa May not say that? Because she has said as a general | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
principle she is not going to stop renegotiating with the media before | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
she is even in the job. You could go through one issue after another... I | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
am sticking with this issue. Many people think the position of EU | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
nationals should be placed above the negotiations, should not be part of | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
the negotiations. If you want to stay here, you are entitled to do | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
so. Even Nigel Farage says that is the case. No one that I campaigned | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
with on the Leave campaign or spoke to on the Remain campaign wants to | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
see EU nationals excluded from the UK. But Theresa made a clear point | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
of principle, she's not going to pre-negotiate point by point in the | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
lead up to hopefully her becoming the next Prime Minister. You could | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
pick one issue after another and keep asking her and you will get the | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
same answer, that she is not going to take anything off the table. The | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
3 million EU nationals this is an important issue and you are putting | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
their future on the table. These are your words. | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
Would you bet on the outside on this does Theresa May have it? The | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
Conservative Party's great genius has always been to see itself as the | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
natural party of government and guard that against ideological | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
forays. I think the problem for the party is if you listen to the | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
gentleman from the south-west, with saying it was an encouraging sign | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Andrea Leadsom appealed to his Ukip friends, I wouldn't see that as an | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
encouraging sign, I would be worried about a reverse takeover of the | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
Conservative Party by Ukip and disenfranchising those centre-right | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
people for who were fans of David Cameron and won him the general | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
election. I think it is a dangerous maim and for the Tories, because if | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
they do Jeremy Corbyn on the Tories, they will be captured by their | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
extreme wings. Is that your biggest risk? The Conservative Party is not | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
the Labour Party. We have a very pragmatic set of associate members. | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
I hear what you are saying but Andrea Leadsom is not Jeremy Corbyn. | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
Our members are not Momentum. We are as sensible, pragmatic and middle | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
ground party and that is where we will remain. We will leave it there, | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
thank you. Conservative Party members will choose a new leader but | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
will Labour Party members get to do the same before long? | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
Well, there's still a stalemate between leader Jeremy Corbyn | :20:31. | :20:32. | |
and his many critics among MPs, and we don't know yet | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
whether there will be a leadership challenge. | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
But, if there is, then it appears that many people are joining | :20:41. | :20:42. | |
the party in an effort to influence the result. | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
Let's just take a look at the figures. | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
The party's highest membership figure in recent decades was 405,000 | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
in 1997 when Tony Blair became Prime Minister. | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
Since then, it's been falling, and under Ed Miliband in 2014 | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
But the membership practically doubled to more than 370,000 | :21:04. | :21:12. | |
after last summer's leadership election, in part because of a rule | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
change meant people could sign up for ?3. | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
This morning, Jeremy Corbyn writes in the Guardian that, | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
since the EU referendum, more than 100,000 have joined, | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
taking the total number to just over 500,000. | :21:26. | :21:34. | |
Well, let's talk now to Tom Baldwin, who was an adviser to Ed Miliband | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
and Adam Klug who is a national organiser for Momentum. | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
Which has been part of Jeremy Corbyn's John McDonnell appeal to | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
the grassroots. Is there going to be a challenge? I think there will be, | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
at the beginning of next week. Their will. Is it assumed on that | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
challenge you would assume among Labour MPs that Jeremy Corbyn loses | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
that challenge? That he won't get a majority, and it will go to the | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
country? I think it would be much better if Jeremy Corbyn did the | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
decent thing and left now with some dignity intact. If it comes to a | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
challenge, they will have to do this. In those circumstances, what | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
matters now is the mainstream start signing people up with the same | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
skill and success as Momentum have been doing. A bit late? I don't | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
think so, the figures Jeremy Corbyn was talking about, 100,000 new | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
members, it has been 113,000. There has been some sampling done. It is a | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
narrow majority for Jeremy Corbyn, not overwhelming and not as big as | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
momentum believes or would like. Do you buy that? All the early | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
indications were those who are signing up to joint were not 100% | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
Jeremy Corbyn fans but tended to the left of the Labour Party? That is my | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
understanding. From the first 13,000 people who joined, 60% put on their | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
membership forms as they joined that they were joining to support Jeremy | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
Corbyn. That was only those who wrote in that box but you didn't | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
have to write in that box. Those who did tended towards Jeremy Corbyn? | :23:16. | :23:23. | |
60% wrote in that box. That is because Momentum have been | :23:24. | :23:25. | |
mobilising. The mainstream currently have been fighting this is a | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
parliamentary battle. I think it is imperative that mainstream Labour | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
Party now go out and show the mainstream are many and the far left | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
off you. That is getting people to sign up hundreds of mainstream | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
people who want a firm opposition. What is your equipment question what | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
saving Labour. There are many millions of people who after this | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
referendum want an effective opposition, want to do something to | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
save our country and save our democracy. I think that energy, that | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
opportunity now needs to be harnessed, not just to save the | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
Labour Party but to save our democracy. Do you think it will be | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
harder this time? Or do you think you still have a substantial | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
majority for Mr Corbyn among the rank and file? I agree that this is | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
a huge opportunity, with 500,000 members the Labour Party is now the | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
biggest membership left of centre party in Europe. I think it is a | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
tremendous opportunity to move forward and engage with voters and | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
engage with members. Members of the people who, on a daily basis, are | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
interacting with voters. It is an opportunity to be knocking on | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
people's doors, canvassing and listening to people. What I said | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
was, do you think among the membership it will be harder or | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
easier to re-elect Mr Corbyn? If there is a challenge I am confident | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
Jeremy will be re-elected. And if he is, where does that leave the | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party? In a very difficult position. And our | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
party and our democracy. Jeremy Corbyn cannot be leader of the | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
Labour Party. For out of five have expressed no confidence in him. | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
Every MEP, ex-leader, an increasing number of members. This is | :25:16. | :25:23. | |
unsustainable. Not if he wins? If he wins among the grassroots he has | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
won. Isn't it the truth that this situation... That the grassroots of | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
the Labour Party needs a new parliamentary party, and the | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
Parliamentary party needs a new grassroots? Maybe you will end up | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
going your separate ways? I think there is too much defeatism among | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
Labour MPs who think you can't beat momentum on the ground. I believe | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
there is energy out there. I believe there is an opportunity and if a | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
large number of people who have joined the Labour Party specifically | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn in the last few weeks, that is even before | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
the mainstream is mobilised. We have to get on with mobilising. The | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
contrast with the Conservative Party, 150,000 very weird people | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
about to choose the new Prime Minister, we need to oppose that and | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
effectively. Do you think the Tory party have a monopoly on with | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
members? No. Let's park that there. Do you detect this claim of a | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
moderate uprising among Labour Party members? I don't. I think the whole | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
terms of this discussion are disappointing. The Tories could call | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
a general election at any time. A turbulent political period and all | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
these members of the Labour Party, 130 momentum groups around the UK | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
who are doing positive community engaging and this is presented as a | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
war, a battle as how to beat or defeat Momentum. I think to be that | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
that is how Momentum presented. I think it is great people are joining | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
the Labour Party and it outnumbers this ageing and odd Conservative | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
Party. What is also important is the Labour Party becomes more | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
representative of the country, getting mainstream Labour voters | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
into the party, as well as people from Momentum. If Mr Corbyn is | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
re-elected, if we go down this process, nobody has triggered it | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
yet, but if he is and is re-elected and remains leader and leader of the | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
Parliamentary party, 80% of which have no confidence in him... You | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
need a new Parliamentary Labour Party? It is a very unfortunate | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
situation we find ourselves in. I put the of that down to MPs who | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
decided to take this action. I wonder where you go from there? | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
There are many great MPs and MPs who will be having conversations with | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
their members and could be won background. We need to build a | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
bridge somehow, because it is a really difficult situation we find | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
ourselves in. To have contempt for members and their views on to ignore | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
them and think they should only be looking at the Parliamentary Labour | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
Party is undemocratic move, I would say. What he is a customer when I | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
first worked in politics a long time ago there was this sort of dream of | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
cooperation on the centre-left another centre-left is now a kind of | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
sinkhole, effectively. There is nobody there and nobody there to | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
represent mainstream centre-left views. I understand what you're | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
saying that even if you have 500,000 people in a group hug, it's still a | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
group hug and not appealing to as a whole. The Labour Party was setup to | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
improve the lives of working people. I'm afraid sort of being preoccupied | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
with the with the issues left are preoccupied with does not | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
communicate with the electorate as a whole. I think you are right, and | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
through. I think the current system of parties we have inherited is | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
becoming the unsustainable. The Labour Party contains two different | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
parties now. The question is, will it be recaptured by the moderate | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
mainstream and will the left have to go some rows and create their own | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
Momentum party? Or will the moderates in the Labour Party have | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
to hide themselves off and create a new centre-left body? Questions we | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
must leave hanging in the air. Who would you like the challenger to be? | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
Angela Eagle at the moment because she has had the balls to put herself | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
up there. Not necessarily the ideal candidate and not my perfect choice | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
but she has been brave enough to say she will take on Jeremy Corbyn and I | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
think we should back her. No question Mr Corbyn would just stand | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
down in your view question what I don't believe that would happen. I | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
think that would be very disappointing if that were to | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
happen. You have both had your say and we will leave it there. It will | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
keep us busy which is what we need, during the summer. Not! | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
A new weekly newspaper hits the newsagents today. | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
Or should I say, it hits some newsagents in some | :29:46. | :29:47. | |
Specifically in those areas that voted to stay in the EU | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
in the referendum such as London, Liverpool and Manchester. | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
The New European is aimed at the 48% who voted unsuccessfully to stay | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
in the European Union, in what its publishers said | :29:58. | :29:59. | |
was an effort to cater for people feeling a real sense of loss. | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
Well, we here at the Daily Politics always wish all new papers well. | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
But let's have a look at some other titles that have fared | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
Sales of the new newspaper got off to a good start. | :30:12. | :30:21. | |
This shop sold out in less than quarter of an hour. | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
The paper is good to look at, with plenty of colour pictures. | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
The first edition of The European, coming off the presses | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
at the Mirror Group's printing works at Watford. | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
Hello Sir, Sunday Business is launched this Sunday, | :30:38. | :30:39. | |
it's a new newspaper and you can also win a free bottle of champagne. | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
I've got my star writer in New York, and he should be here with a copy. | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
An hour and a half to go and the newspapers are late. | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
Editor in chief Andrew Neil makes a rare appearance | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
Let's move on this, we're running out time now. | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
The Lite version has been printed here for the last five years, | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
but managers say it is no longer financially viable. | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
After 168 years, the News of the World is to close. | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
This Sunday's edition will be its last. | :31:14. | :31:25. | |
It was the first broadsheet to go tabloid and now it's the first | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
Hold the front page, it's a new national newspaper | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
in the age of the Internet, published by the Mirror Group, | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
but its own agenda, journalists on a new approach. | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
Joining us now, and probably wishing he hadn't seen that film, | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
is the editor of pop-up newspaper The New European, Matt Kelly. | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
Here is The New European newspaper, a pop art hurt her for the 48%. | :32:06. | :32:16. | |
-- Pop up paper. A new paper for a new constituency, | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
very rare you are handed in market opportunity of 16.5 million people | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
on a plate. It is, if you look at those models | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
you have just shown, they had multi-million pound budgets, ours is | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
in the low five figures. We are doing a conservative cost | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
base, with massive positivity from journalists. We have captured some | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
sense in the country there is a lack of representation the people feeling | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
disenfranchised by what happened. It is weekly? You are committed to | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
four editions. Is there a digital version? | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
A digital page turner. We have a social media presence. And a website | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
for people who want to subscribe. What will you tell me that I can't | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
get from the Financial Times or the Economist? They have a sense of | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
bereavement at the moment. Both those don't touch a mass | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
market. We are aiming for a popular style. | :33:35. | :33:44. | |
What sales will you be happy with? We are printing 200,000 copies | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
today. On sale all week. If we sold 50,000 I would be delighted. | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
?2, Miranda, are you up for that? This will test the ram named | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
campaign commitment. -- Remain. | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
There is a sense of cultural abandonment of what this might mean | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
particularly in London and the big cities, maybe there is a market. | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
I am in favour of any newspaper! The best of luck. | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
Coming up in a moment, it's our regular look at what's been | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
For now, it's time to say goodbye to my guest of the day. | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
So, for the next half-an-hour, we're going to be focussing on Europe. | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
We'll be discussing the status of EU nationals here after Brexit, | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
and what the rest of the EU will do without Britain. | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
First, though, here's our guide to the latest from Europe, | :34:43. | :34:44. | |
The Dutch presidency of the EU came to an end. | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
The EU must regain its confidence and fight growing populism | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
and nationalism across the continent, said | :34:58. | :34:58. | |
The European Commission performed a U-turn on is trade | :34:59. | :35:09. | |
-- The European Commission performed a U-turn on its trade | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
agreement with Canada, giving into pressure from France | :35:13. | :35:14. | |
and Germany by agreeing national parliaments should ratify the deal. | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
As figures show another rise in the number of migrants | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
crossing into Europe, MEPs approved plans to set up an EU | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
Border and Coast Guard Force to help member states under pressure. | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
MEPs had some sharp exchanges in the debate about the result | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
EU President Jean-Claude Junker mocked Brexiteers Boris Johnson | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
TRANSLATION: Patriots don't resign when they get difficult, they stay. | :35:34. | :35:42. | |
As for the outgoing Ukip leader, he says he will stay on as an MEP | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined by two MEPs. | :35:47. | :35:59. | |
Yes, they're still in the job for now, at least. | :36:00. | :36:01. | |
It's the Conservative Amjad Bashir, and Labour's Richard Corbett. | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail and that's | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
the news that member states will now get to have a say over the EU's | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
It could have big implications for other trade deals on the way | :36:14. | :36:23. | |
including, of course, any new deal with the UK. | :36:24. | :36:25. | |
If this has to go before all of the parliament, the hurdles are higher. | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
This is part of a trend, not a one off decision. Trade deals if they | :36:35. | :36:42. | |
are purely trade up to the European Parliament. Increasingly, trade goes | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
into more things agree on common regulations which are a national | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
competence so you need every member country to ratify. With 28 member | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
states it could be a tall order. This could freeze trade deals by the | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
EU. The Canadian deal will have some trouble. And the bigger North | :37:02. | :37:12. | |
Atlantic trade deal with America, that won't get through national | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
partners at all. This demonstrates how difficult it | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
is to do trade deals with the EU. I am glad we are out of it. | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
Not yet. Indeed, but we will conduct our own trade deals a lot quicker. | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
If the EU can't do trade deals with Canada, who can it with? | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
What about our own trade deal with the EU. If we are left outside the | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
single European market, our main export market with tariff barriers, | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
passport sporting for our financial services sector will be gone unless | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
we get a deal. It will be more difficult to obtain than leaving the | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
EU and negotiating afterwards from outside will be even more difficult. | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
Canada had to start from scratch. Our product as locations are already | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
there. But on the implications of what will | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
happen with Canada, is it now possible that when we eventually | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
come to agree the terms of Brexit, will that have to be agreed by 27 | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
national parliaments? The British people have spoken | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
loudly, 17,000 Berger 17 million. The answer to my question? | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
We have to start negotiating to deliver what people want. | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
Who will gratify it? The new Prime Minister when she comes into being | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
will invoke article 50. I know all that but what is it? | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
Doesn't the Lisbon Treaty specified the ratification process? Could it | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
be up to the national parliaments? If the new promise that gets trade | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
incorporated in the divorce settlement, that needs a qualified | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
majority in the council. If trade is left as a separate item, then the | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
likelihood is it could be classified as a mixed deal which means every | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
national parliament would need to ratify it. One of the great | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
uncertainties. A new ball game. | :39:24. | :39:31. | |
Sticking with this, one question is this. | :39:32. | :39:32. | |
So, one question arising from the debate between the candidates | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
to become our next Prime Minister is what happens to EU | :39:36. | :39:37. | |
nationals living in the UK after we formally leave the union? | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
Frontrunner Theresa May has said she can only guarantee their status | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
as long as British nationals living in EU countries have their | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
So, just how many people are we talking about? | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
Well, according to the Office For National Statistics, | :39:49. | :39:50. | |
there are 2.9 million people from the EU resident here, | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
That includes people who've lived here for at least 12 months. | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
It doesn't include those on shorter stays. | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
Polish nationals represent by far the largest group of EU nationals, | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
with 853,000 living in the UK, followed by Ireland and Romania. | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
According to information collected by the United Nations, | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
there are just under 1.2 million UK citizens living in the rest | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
Of the 27 EU countries, Spain had the most with just under | :40:23. | :40:35. | |
310,000 migrants from the UK living there in 2015. | :40:36. | :40:37. | |
Ireland was second, and France third. | :40:38. | :40:50. | |
Are you surprised that Theresa May has made the status of EU nationals | :40:51. | :40:58. | |
and issue for the negotiations? I was on the Leave side. When I was | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
asked questions during the run up to the referendum, I said that in | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
future we need to control immigration. Those people already | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
here should be allowed to stay. I haven't changed my position. | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
But it is not what Mrs May is saying. | :41:19. | :41:20. | |
But we have to take into account the 1.2 million of our citizens living | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
on the continent. It would be a dereliction of our duty if we | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
ignored that. I understand. You are facing both | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
ways at once. Either the 2.9 EU nationals in this country are going | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
to be guaranteed their status, continued status for the foreseeable | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
future. Or they are a bargaining chip in negotiations, what is it? | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
You have to take the whole thing together. Our citizens need the | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
right to remain. Usually elderly people who have retired there are a | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
vulnerable stage of their life. They need assurance they can remain that | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
as well. It is right... It sounds like the EU | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
nationals here are a bargaining chip. | :42:08. | :42:09. | |
It would appear so from what has been said. | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
It is even more contemplative than that. Not just about residency | :42:13. | :42:21. | |
rights. EU law guarantees rights not to be discriminated against on | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
grounds of nationality. A Brit living in Spain for instance, dying, | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
what happens to the inheritance of their property? Some countries | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
prescribe that. If we leave, we need to think of all these details. | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
But do you believe that we should guarantee the existing status of EU | :42:49. | :42:56. | |
nationals living in this country? Yes, people working here with | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
families, part of the fabric of our society. To imply this is a | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
bargaining chip which is not even necessary because if we do that I | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
don't see any other EU country trying to retaliate. | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
What about their rights? Is it right... | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
Let him speak. Is it right when we are talking about EU citizens being | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
allowed to stay here, which I agree they should, isn't it right we take | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
into account our citizens, are we abandoning them? | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
They have rights. You are implying other countries would challenge | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
those bytes. If we are doing the right thing by EU citizens already | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
here, they will do the right thing for British citizens already there. | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
By putting it into negotiations you are saying, why don't you do the | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
same and use them as a bargaining chip. | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
What is the likelihood, 1.2 million spread over 27 countries, | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
concentrated in Spain and France and Ireland, Ireland is not an issue | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
because that won't happen, Irish people will continue to live here | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
and British people will continue in Ireland. You can take that off the | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
table. Would it not be a good position for | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
Britain to take a high moral position, regardless of what you | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
will do with our 1.2 million, the 3 million who are here in Britain, | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
they are safe. It is not a question of numbers. It is our duty to look | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
after them. There are 300,000 in Spain. They have largely gone to | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
retire there. It is right we negotiate so they can remain. It is | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
Brussels preventing us negotiating. They say you can't negotiate unless | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
you invoke article 50. This is a bargaining chip. If you | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
make this a bargaining chip, indeed they are in danger. If you don't, | :45:03. | :45:03. | |
they are not in danger. It sounds like you have moved from | :45:04. | :45:14. | |
guaranteeing they can stay to now agreeing they should be a bargaining | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
chip after the campaign? I'm saying... We've not lied. The | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
situation is, it's right that we guarantee the rights of our citizens | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
who live on the continent. That's what we are trying to ensure. To do | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
that you have to make the 3 million EU people living here a bargaining | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
chip? That's clear? Rights for both. Our people on the continent, and | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
people from the continent living here. That is not what Nigel Farage | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
said during the campaign or leading Leave campaigners on the | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
conservative side. Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling... Andrea | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
Leadsom, none of them said they would be a bargaining chip. The | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
Leave campaign... I don't want at all, Bihar. -- on their behalf. | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
Now, as you might expect, the result of Britain's referendum | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
has raised some serious questions over the future of the EU | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
Has Brexit damaged the European project, perhaps fatally? | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
Or will it be the trigger the EU needs to bring | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
Adam's been in Strasbourg to find out. | :46:28. | :46:37. | |
Big moments in EU history, commemorated at the European | :46:38. | :46:39. | |
This session, they have gone for a referendum them, | :46:40. | :46:47. | |
Big Ben, a Brexit stamp and a picture of David Cameron | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
This week, a lot of the talk in this place has been | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
about what will Europe look like post-Brexit? | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
Guys, I'm from the BBC, what direction do you want Europe | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
The Dutch Prime Minister said the way forward is not big reforms, | :47:06. | :47:14. | |
just a more effective EU, which is how the right of centre | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
We are strongly against any kind of treaty change, we | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
need concrete answers on the problems of the people. | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
Stop the illegal migration flow which we saw in the last month. | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
Find possibilities to create jobs for our young people especially | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
If we deliver on such things, then people are happy with Europe. | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
The Socialist group isn't just handing out goodie bags, | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
they've also revived a plan by the European Parliament Presidnet | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
Martin Schultz and his fellow German left-wingers. | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
I heard from the quotes of those who voted for Brexit, yes, | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
I can elect a Government and I can chase a Government out of power. | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
So why not do the same in Brussels, to elect a Government which would be | :48:06. | :48:12. | |
the Commission, and as well have the power to have a motion | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
In the chamber, we saw even more extreme views. | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
Uber federalists and those who really are not. | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
And, in my opinion, a new project, a new vision should be presented | :48:25. | :48:31. | |
Because the truth is European citizens are not against Europe, | :48:32. | :48:40. | |
TRANSLATION: People want their sovereignty back, | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
they want to cooperate freely in a Europe of sovereign states. | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
And there is talk of whether the Commission President | :48:51. | :48:59. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker should be in the driving seat. | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
If Mr Cameron resigns, I think Juncker should resign also. | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
Because his impudance was one of the reasons the UK leads. | :49:09. | :49:19. | |
Enter the Slovak Prime Minister, who will chair a summit | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
in Bratislava in September where all of this will come to a head. | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
I have heard so many different plans for the future of the EU | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
Mr Schultz's plan, Mr Verhofstadt seems to have three, | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
Your summit in Bratislava, how will you choose | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
TRANSLATION: More than 60% of our citizens support the EU | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
but we would lose that confidence if we are too cool. | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
So we have to listen to our citizens and bear their expectations in mind. | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
It is clear that our whole house is not in order and we | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
To cheer everyone up, a Northern Irish MEP invited | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
this band from Belfast to Strasbourg this week. | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
There are enormous questions about who will call the tune | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
as the EU charts its future without the UK. | :50:12. | :50:21. | |
He was one of the fiddlers! We naturally concentrated on the | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
divisions Brexit has raised in this country, what our position would be. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
But it has created divisions in Europe as well. An two levels, | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
Europe, the EU is divided on what its negotiation position should be | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
towards us, and also divided on where Europe should go here, between | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
those for further integration and those for greater nation state | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
Corporation. Both mirror each other. The French, the Italians, the | :50:56. | :51:01. | |
commission on the punishment beating more integration side, the Eastern | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
European is on the Council on their less integration. Let's see if we | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
can do a deal with Britain's lied. Do you buy that? To a degree, but | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
remember the bottom line on the integration on less integration. The | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
basic rule book of the European Union is a set of treaties which can | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
only be changed to give more powers to the EU if every single country | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
agrees. It can only move that the speed of the least enthusiastic | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
country. On how to deal with Britain, I detect a shift of mood. | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
The initial reaction was, you decided to go, let's get on with it | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
and sort out quickly. Now there is a realisation that it can only be | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
triggered by Britain giving in its notification under Article 50 and | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
that Britain needs a bit of time to work out what it wants, what | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
alternative is it negotiating for? We have no clarity on that. The | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
Leave side gave two very different visions of flats, one inside the | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
single market, but then you have to accept the rules of that market. One | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
outside, but then you have to accept a tariff barrier. Both are | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
unpalatable but we need to choose one or the other. There will be | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
Leave voters who say, that's not what I voted for, that's not what I | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
was told I might reopen the question is not why do you accept there will | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
be private debate about the future of Europe? No appetite for further | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
treaty change this side of the French or German elections? The | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
Eastern European is to use Brexit as a way of building up the position of | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
the nation state they even want to get rid of Jean-Claude Juncker. | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
Angela Merkel made it clear they will not be doing negotiations with | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
Britain, that will be a job for the Council and for her. So there are | :52:49. | :52:56. | |
changes afoot. Yes, but I don't buy the line the member states never | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
controlled the European Union. Every fundamental decision needs every | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
national government to agree with it. Even when you need a qualified | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
majority, that is a pretty hefty majority. The idea things can be | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
decided in Brussels with member states being blissfully unaware... | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
That wasn't my point. The division between Paris and Berlin in | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
particular, how to handle this. The irony is that Europe could now start | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
moving in more of a direction you wanted it to move in the first | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
place, and we won't be there. I think Europe is in a pickle. The | :53:31. | :53:38. | |
people of Europe are in a pickle. A British expression! The people of | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
Europe want something similar to us, to bring democracy close to the | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
nation and make decisions for themselves. Jean-Claude Juncker and | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
the like would want a federal state with more and more power | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
concentrated in the centre, and that's why Europe is about to | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
implode. OK, we shall see if it implodes or not. | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
Our guests of the day, like all of Britain's 73 MEPs, | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
are now officially something of an endangered species. | :54:07. | :54:08. | |
But they have the right to keep their seats | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
in the European Parliament until the process of leaving | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
So, when they do finally sign off from their duties in | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
Brussels and Strasbourg, what will they miss? | :54:18. | :54:19. | |
The grand old cathedral proves the first point, | :54:20. | :54:27. | |
which is that Strasbourg is very easy on the eye. | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
There's also an impressive son et lumiere show there every | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
night during the summer, although when I went last night, | :54:34. | :54:35. | |
The city is awash with patisseries, cosy bars and Michelin star | :54:36. | :54:46. | |
restaurants like this one, where you can get the veal | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
with gnocchi and mushrooms for just 49 euros. | :54:51. | :54:52. | |
Although, MEPs actually don't spend a lot of time in the centre | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
of town - they're over in the European quarter. | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
Here, which is sort of like a theme park for Euro geeks. | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
Over there is the European Court of Human Rights, peer through those | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
trees and you'll see the Council of Europe, | :55:04. | :55:05. | |
and over there - the official seat of the European Parliament. | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
In here you will find the political stage on an epic scale. | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
This is Parliament's debating chamber, known as the Hemicycle, | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
and it's around 12 and half times bigger than the House of Commons | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
chamber in Westminster, and while you're speaking, | :55:18. | :55:19. | |
your beautifully honed words will be translated into 23 different | :55:20. | :55:21. | |
It's quite a convivial place, dotted with bars and restaurants, | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
like this one, and it's very, very international, which is great | :55:27. | :55:35. | |
if you want to discuss olive farming in Greece from a feminist | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
perspective, or the fiendishly complicated voting system here, | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
One thing that no MEP will miss is the travel. | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
I've now got to get the train to Paris, walk across the city | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
to get another train, and then it's even harder | :55:49. | :55:50. | |
if you're going to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. | :55:51. | :55:52. | |
big question is what happens to Adam after we leave the EU, never mind | :55:53. | :56:31. | |
the MEPs! Remind me, what is the role of the European Parliament in | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
the Article 50 process of exit? It would have to approve or ratify any | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
agreements reached between Britain and the... Wilbur plan B British | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
MEPs will stay at least until that vote? Yes, legally they are still | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
members as long as Britain is a member of the European for union. I | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
assume you would want to stay until that vote? You will want to make | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
sure there is a majority to ratify whatever the British government has | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
agreed? I would leave tomorrow if it was possible, but the thing is, you | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
are absolutely right. These negotiations are to take place and | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
we have to ratify them. So I remain until that is done. Are they already | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
treating you as second-class citizens? No, that is not the case. | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
There was apprehension after we went back after the Brexit vote, but I | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
think they have come round to it now. Are they? Or will you slowly be | :57:29. | :57:37. | |
sidelined question mark some understandably say if you are on | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
your way out, it is not so much your concern what we vote on. But as long | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
as we make contributions, continue to make contributions, we need to be | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
on the committees, we need to check things and make decisions. Is a | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
former MEP employable? Well, if we are outside the European Union, we | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
will still want to influence it. Maybe we could get a job in | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
Brussels. In Brussels. You want to be back in Yorkshire? Absolutely. | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
You have plenty of time to get your CVs ready for a new job, have you | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
taken tips from Andreas Beck? Certainly not. Maybe she would have | :58:20. | :58:28. | |
some good tips. I would carry on working in Yorkshire for the party | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
and try to get membership from the blue-collar workers of Yorkshire and | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
the communities. All right. At least two years to go, at least? It | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
depends how long Britain takes to secure what it once and then trigger | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
Article 50. And that is what we will be covering. That is it for now, | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
thank you to my guests, hope to see you again soon, goodbye from | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
Politics Europe. A CHOIR HUMS: Adagio For Strings | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
by Samuel Barber | :59:01. | :59:04. |