Browse content similar to 11/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
reported Andrea Leadsom is to pull out of the race to become | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Conservative leader and Prime Minister. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Mrs Leadsom had faced criticism over the weekend after appearing | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
to suggest she'd make a better leader because she's a mother. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
We'll have the latest reaction to this breaking story. | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Angela Eagle is preparing to challenge Jeremy Corbyn | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
His supporters say party members will elect him again - | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
but will he automatically get on the ballot? | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
Tony Blair was not on trial and the Chilcot report passed no | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
verdict on his guilt - but could the Prime Minister | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
who took us into the Iraq War now be held in contempt of parliament? | :01:20. | :01:30. | |
And promises and predictions - who will hold the rival camps | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
to account for the promises and predictions made | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the whole | :01:36. | :01:45. | |
of the programme today Conservative MP and former deputy speaker | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
of the House of Commons, Nigel Evans, and the former | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
Labour Leadership hopeful Chuka Umuna. | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
First this morning that breaking news that Andrea Leadsom | :01:55. | :02:03. | |
is preparing to pull out of the Conservative leadership race. | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
Laura, this is incredible. This is the latest and very dramatic turn of | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
events after a fast-moving weekend of news developments. What has | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
happened? Just when you think you might be able to pause for breath | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
for a single second around an hour and a half ago someone suggested to | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
me it might be worth watching very carefully what Andrea Leadsom was | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
going to be doing today. I suppose my hackles rose like any reporter. | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
She has had a bumpy couple of days after the story in The Times | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
newspaper and Morgan Quaintance suggested she had taken what has | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
happened in the last couple of days so seriously and found the first few | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
days of the leadership race a bruising and so difficult that I | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
understand just in the last 24 hours she has decided to quit. That of | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
course will be a disappointment for many of her supporters, people who | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
had grown to know her and admire her to the course of the EU referendum | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
campaign. More to the point, the big picture is however difficult we will | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
hear it has been for Andrea Leadsom when she comes out in ten minutes or | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
so, this could mean that subject to how the Tory party decides to | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
proceed, potentially within days Theresa May will be installed as | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
Prime Minister. And she will move into Number Ten Downing St and David | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Cameron will move out. In 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers has | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
got to decide exactly what happens next. But it seems this means rather | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
than there being a contest and rather than Tory members or anyone | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
around the country having a say, that Theresa May will be subject to | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
a coronation, something that she herself said she did not want to | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
happen. But people do talk about it because she was so far ahead in | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
terms of support within her own party. And she's the only one | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
remaining if Andrea Leadsom says she is dropping out of the race. Do you | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
expect her to make a statement right there for your standing? Expect that | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
at about 12:15pm that she will confirm that she is running out. | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
There had been suggestions that Theresa May should not be the only | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
candidate, she has the overwhelming backing of Tory MPs, almost 200 of | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
them, 60% or so of the Parliamentary party voted for her in the second | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
ballot and they have even been a tradition begun by some Conservative | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
MPs, including Grant Shapps, who was trying to press for this idea of a | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
coronation. If the political moments that we are in, it is because of | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
that, but this is not normal given that just two weeks or so ago, we | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
voted to leave the European Union. We are at a historical junction and | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
that is where the demand for Theresa May just to take over immediately | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
came from. As I say it will be for the 1922 Committee, the internal | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
backbench group of MPs, to decide what the next move is if as we | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
expect, and as this press pack expect, Andrea Leadsom comes out to | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
confirm that she's the race. Many people were disappointed and upset | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
that David Cameron decided immediately that he would step down, | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
the expectation of course is he would stay until September. Once the | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
contest was over. It now seems strange if he then extends that, | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
even though it now is clear that we're going have Theresa May as the | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
next Prime Minister, why not just hand over immediately? Yes, I just | :05:36. | :05:44. | |
lost those last couple of words, but extraordinary to think that just | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
three weeks ago David Cameron repeatedly said, I will not resign | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
if I lose the referendum, there will be no need for me to go. Senior | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
colleagues on both sides of the EU debate said that, that he did not | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
need to quit, even if the two modules referendum result meant | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
leaving the EU. But how wrong they were. He changed his mind, they | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
changed their minds, and now it appears the extent of the shake-up | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
that the referendum has caused right across British politics has upended | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
everything. There will now be no contest. There are of course | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
leadership contest going on all over the place, arguably also the result | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
of the referendum. But for the Tories, there will now just the | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
succession, a handover to Theresa May rather than a contest. I | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
understand from Andrea Leadsom, the main reason she will give today is | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
the pressure and what she sees as the abuse she has been given before, | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
as she decided to run. Of course critics will say if she could not | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
take the pressure of the early days of the leadership campaign, it is | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
not likely she would have been able to handle the pressure of being | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Prime Minister very well. We will here in a few minutes her | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
explanation in her own words. We are going to hear from her but Kelis a | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
bit about interest you where she made those comments about being a | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
mother and that somehow she would have a greater stake in the future | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
of the country. Theresa May does not have children. That that led to the | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
abuse that this became overwhelming for her. On Friday night The Times | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
newspaper had a dramatic headline following a very long interview one | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
of the senior columnists had carried out with Andrea Leadsom. In that | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
interview she suggested that she had a very real stake in the future | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
because she has a large family. She has talked repeatedly about herself | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
as a mother and grandmother, she has talked about that a lot. When she | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
was invited to suggest comparisons between herself and Theresa May, she | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
was asked why she would be a more persuasive candidate. She suggested | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
that part of that was because of her position as a mother as someone with | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
that kind of empathy and that kind of sympathy. She also said in that | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
interview that she did not want that to become a factor in the leadership | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
campaign, in fact she said it would be horrible people made that an | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
issue in the campaign. But the diplomatic version upset about this | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
is that at best she was being naive. She was not misquoted, her problem | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
was she did not like the way that the Times newspaper had used the | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
comment she made in that lengthy interview. So strange 48 hours, and | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
The Times newspaper even had their journalist out defending the way | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
they used. But for Andrea Leadsom it was probably part of what had been a | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
couple of days of not unusual, but quite bruising encounters with the | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
press. We are just keeping an eye, I think she's about to come out. As | :08:43. | :08:49. | |
soon as she comes out we will duck out of the way. We will carry on | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
talking while she prepares to come out. Here are some members of her | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
team. We expect her to come out in the next couple of minutes. Stay | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
with us but I go first to studio guests while we wait for Andrea | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
Leadsom to come out. Thank you very much for the moment. John Redwood, | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
who supported the leadership of Andrea Leadsom is here. Your | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
reaction? Congratulations to Theresa May and I wish you every success as | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
leader and Prime Minister. I hope she will take on board the things | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
that most excited me about the Andrea Leadsom campaign, one is | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
economic optimism, we have a number of policies and measures but we want | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
the bank and the government to take urgently. The other was a speedy and | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
sensible exit from the EU, by means of primary legislation, sorting out | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
borders the same time. And I would recommend that strongly to her, if | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
she wants to build a united party, we had a voice and a point and I | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
hope that she will take that on board. There is Bernard Jenkin, in | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
Duncan Smith, close supporters of Andrea Leadsom. It looks as if | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
they're lining up outside. And presumably Andrea Leadsom will | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
appear in front of them and the gathered press to talk about why she | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
has decided to pull out at this critical time of the and in fact has | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
left the path open for Theresa May to some extent to be anointed as the | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
next Conservative leader and Prime Minister. What we do not know at the | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
moment exactly is how the process will unfold. And we have yet to hear | :10:30. | :10:38. | |
probably from the 1922 chair. The sooner the better, I hope, the | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
advantage is that we foreshortened the debate. That will have to be | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
confirmed. Of course we hope to hear from Graham Brady, head of the 1922 | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
Committee that he will be able to plant exactly what will happen. He | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
will probably make a statement at around 12:30pm outside the Houses of | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
Parliament. And that will set out and clarify exactly what will | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
happen. Let's see if this is Andrea Leadsom. No, more of her supporters | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
coming out. Tim Walton, I do not think they can fit that many more | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
people on the steps! This was the decision that she made overnight. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
She has not had that much time to think about it. As we heard from our | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
political editor the abuse that followed the interview that she gave | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
at the weekend seemed to have become too great for her. And the scrutiny | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
would have continued as would be expected of someone who wants to be | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party. Let's see if | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
this is Andrea Leadsom. Yes. Let's hear what she has decided. Good | :11:43. | :11:54. | |
morning. Good morning, everyone. This morning I have written a letter | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
to Graham Brady the chair of the 1922 Committee, and I would like to | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
read it to you. The best interests of our country inspired me to stand | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
for the leadership. I believe that in leading -- leaving the EU, a | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
bright future awaits were all our people can share in a new | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
prosperity, freedom and democracy. The referendum result demonstrated a | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
clear desire for change. Strong leadership is needed urgently to | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
begin the work of withdrawing from the European Union. Nine weeks | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
leadership campaign at such a critical moment for our country is | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
highly undesirable. Business needs certainty. A strong and unified | :12:44. | :12:52. | |
government must move quickly to set out what an independent, United | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
Kingdom framework for business looks like. It is also essential that | :12:57. | :13:05. | |
current EU workers in the UK and the businesses that employ them know | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
where they stand. The Conservative Party was elected only last year | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
with a strong manifesto of the we now need a new Prime Minister in | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
place as soon as possible, committed to fulfilling that manifesto as well | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
as implementing the clear instructions from the referendum. | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Theresa May carries over 60% of support from the Parliamentary | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
party. She is ideally placed to implement Brexit on the best | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
possible terms for the British people. And she has promised that | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
she will do so. For me personally to have won the support of 84 of my | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
colleagues last Thursday was a great expression of confidence for which I | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
am incredibly grateful. Nevertheless this is less than 25% of the | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
Parliamentary party and after careful consideration I do not | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
believe that this is sufficient support to lead a strong and stable | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
government, should I win the leadership election. There is no | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
greater privilege than to lead the Conservative Party in government. | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
And I would have been deeply honoured to do it. I have however | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
concluded that the interests of our country are best served by the | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
immediate appointment of a strong and well supported Prime Minister. | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
I'm therefore withdrawing from the leadership election and I wish | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
Theresa May the very greatest success. I assure her of my full | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
support. Thank you very much. Her Andrea Leadsom, was it a mistake | :14:46. | :15:02. | |
to run? Why have you changed your mind, Mrs Leadsom? Andrea Leadsom | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
giving a statement it up she read out the letters she has sent to the | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
chairman of the 1922 committee, who will be the person who will announce | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
the timetable that will lead to Theresa May becoming leader of the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
party and then Prime Minister. To take you through some of the | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
comments she made, she said that having left the EU, or the British | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
people having decided to leave the EU, a bright future awaits and | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
strong leadership is needed. She said she felt the mind week campaign | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
would be highly undesirable because business needs certainty. -- nine | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
week. She has changed around him and slightly because she felt that | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
actually it would have been fine to spend a few months with a leadership | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
contest that would have been but at the grassroots but lets talk to | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
Laura Coombs BOE, our political editor, who was trying to ask some | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
questions of Andrea Leadsom. -- Laura Coombs Berg. If you can hear | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
me, what did you make of the reasons she gave in terms of saying that | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
long campaign would have been undesirable when what the country | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
needs is strongly do ship, and business needs certainty? I think as | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
ever, I suspect there will be public reasons and private reasons. Her | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
public reasons were very clear. She said that a long contest, nine weeks | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
stretching out over the summer, was not the right thing the moment for | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
the country and in the wake of our vote to leave the European Union, | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
and she referred to Theresa May having the overwhelming backing of | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
Conservative MPs, over 60% of them, and that will have weighed on Andrea | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
Leadsom's mine. Privately, people who are close to her have told me | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
this morning that the abuse she felt she had been getting from some of | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
her colleagues and the press attention had been too much. As ever | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
in politics, there will be a combination of reasons that changed | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
her mind but in Andrea Leadsom's words, she wants a swift appointment | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
of Theresa May to become an extra minister and she has decided to | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
withdraw from the race. Laura Kuenssberg, thank you very much. We | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
will let you try to get some work that of Andrea Leadsom. | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
John Redwood, you must have been disappointed. She was your woman and | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
she has stood down. I am disappointed but it shows why I | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
like. Decent and honest and cheese but the national interest before her | :17:16. | :17:26. | |
own ambitions. -- she has put. Her campaign, supported by me, was about | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
early and smooth exit from the EU by an international legislation, not | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
getting too entangled in all these procedures that the EU wants to | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
enforce on us, and being optimistic when there is blended to be | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
optimistic about an economic prospects and cheaper bows first and | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
foremost. Was she naive to run in the first place? The abuse that you | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
been talking about and the unhappiness about quite a lot of | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
Tory MPs is a factor because we've seen what happens in the Labour | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
Party when the MPs don't agree with the members of the view of the | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
number should. She was very worried that she would win the membership, | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
which she might well have done, but not carried of the MPs with her and | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
makes it very difficult. Should she have run in the first place? Did she | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
not have enough experience? Was naive to think that she could have a | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
chance at not just leading the party by becoming Prime Minister? Very | :18:19. | :18:20. | |
different from David Cameron and other leaders who have become leader | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
and become Leader of the Opposition? I believe in democratic petition and | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
I don't expect to be on the winning side. I have been on the losing side | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
are great number of times. It is a way of making your case and | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
influencing policy and we now wish to convert this into a win for the | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
nation because the main points she was putting forward are vital to a | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
successful Premiership by Theresa May, which is what we now all wish | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
for. Nigel Evans, she did say very clearly in that letter that she read | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
out that Theresa May is ideally placed to execute Brexit, and she | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
has promised to do so. In that is an implicit threat, isn't there, but | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
you have promised to do, even as a remain in the EU referendum, but you | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
have promised, Theresa May, to do the right thing and carry out the | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
will of the people. Did you sense that from her comments? Absolutely. | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
I spoke to Theresa may just over a week ago and I talked to her about | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
Brexit. I'm a Brexiteer and I want to see this happen as quickly as | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
possible. I want to see the wishes of the British people carried out | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
and I got that commitment from Theresa and that's why I was happy | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
to support Theresa May. She said she is going to but a Brexiteer in | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
charge of the withdrawal of the European Union. That now needs to | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
happen. And this expression is Nigel being gobsmacked. Who says politics | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
is boring? At the moment, I would not want to predict what's going to | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
happen in the next five minutes, never mind the next 24 hours. | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
Congratulations to Theresa May. I am absolutely certain she will make a | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
great Prime Minister. Jeremy Corbyn would dream of 84 members! 84 is a | :20:03. | :20:11. | |
substantial number and the party will now unite behind Theresa May | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
and absolutely support her in withdrawing the United Kingdom from | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
the European Union as quickly as possible. I know Graham Brady is | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
going to make a speech at the moment. I'm secretary of the 1922 | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
and I did chat to the vice-chairman just before coming on the air | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
because this is uncharted water. Did you get a sense of what is going to | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
say? No, inasmuch as he has taught already to the permanent secretary. | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
You only have to wait ten more minutes to find out what the | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
procedure is going to be but like John, I want this now to happen as | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
quickly as possible and the 1922 didn't want it to drag out to the | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
9th of September. We wanted it to be a far tighter win and one of the | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
reasons Andrea has used is that we can now get on with the process of | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
government and I think that now needs to happen as quickly as | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
possible. Let's look at this in contrast to the Labour Party in | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
terms of leadership contests. They sorted it out, the Conservative | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
Party. There is now going to be, and we know who it is, a new leader and | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
Prime Minister. Why can't the Labour Party sought itself out? We are | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
going to have a contest now because there has been a challenge. It was | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
going to be launched at the double bass programme. Who knows? Things | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
change every hour. There will be a challenge in the Labour Party. Can I | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
say something about the politics of this, in the spectre of Andrea, who | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
I know very well? I like her personally very much. I disagree | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
with her fundamentally on a lot of things and from my own experience, I | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
think one of the things this illustrates is that if you are going | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
to launch - and I speak from personal experience 2- a leadership | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
campaign, it helps if you've spent many months preparing at Aberdeen | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
basin of the structure. Did you have sympathy if it was a case of too | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
much but because it was the sort of thing you experienced? I wasn't | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
preparing to run a leadership contest, I was preparing to run a | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
business, innovation and skills department Inan Ed Miliband | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
government and Theresa May has been planning this for some time. She | :22:13. | :22:22. | |
wasn't very present on the field of the EU referendum campaign. I think | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
part of the reason she didn't do so was a tactical reason in order to | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
win a potential leadership contest but two things I would say. A | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
Theresa May government is going to be dominated by Brexiteers. It will | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
be a Vote Leave government in essence. And I still think that | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
Theresa may has a lot to prove in showing that she can unify the | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
country and I just think of the disgraceful role she played in the | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
Islam phobia campaign that was waged against Sadiq Khan in the London | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
mayoral election. I think she has a lot to prove on that front. Will be | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
discussing that and a lot more detail now we know she is going to | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
be bid and Prime Minister. Just briefly to you, will you all unite | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
behind Theresa May? Will there be any problem, do you think, with Tory | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
MPs who are disappointed about Andrea Leadsom dropping out? I hope | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
not that I thought we had two very good winning candidates. We were | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
going to have a democratic argument but we are now in the position we | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
are in. We all had goodwill but there will be rebellions from time | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
to time, as there are under all leaders. Some of them will be from | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
her own supporters, I suspect, because they won't all be satisfied. | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
She's now got to balance the ticket and I do sincerely recommend to her | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
those two fundamental issues from our campaign, economic optimism. We | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
need to lift spirits and tell people there is not going to be a | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
recession, we can get through this fine things are going to be much | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
better. We can be more prosperous, and we need to have a smooth exit | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
which I think means doing it at pace. Doing it right now? OK, thank | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
you. So Angela Eagle is launching her | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
challenge for the Labour leadership She says she wants to "heal | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
the party" to give them a chance of winning | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
the next general election. Also sharing his views on the Labour | :24:09. | :24:10. | |
leadership this morning has been Unite General Secretary Len | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
McCluskey - and he had some strong words for those who want to get rid | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
of Jeremy Corbyn, calling it This was an attempted | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
political lynching. Designed to bully and bludgeon | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, this deeply decent and kind man, | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
out of the job This is not just about | :24:31. | :24:32. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and his position, the coup has | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
snowballed into a wrecking Labour Party itself, destroying it | :24:40. | :24:41. | |
at least temporarily, as a The big question in all | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
of is whether current leader Jeremy will automatically be on the ballot | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
paper in a new leadership contest - with both sides arguing | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
a different case. Angela Eagle says she expects | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
Jeremy Corbyn to have to be nominated by 20% of Labour MPs | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
and MEPs in the same way that The precedent for this | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
is Tony Benn's challenge to Neil Kinnock's leadership | :25:13. | :25:19. | |
in 1988, when Kinnock had to gather endorsements from members | :25:20. | :25:21. | |
of the Parliamentary Labour Party But Mr Corbyn and his supporters say | :25:22. | :25:23. | |
things have changed since then and that as the incumbent | :25:24. | :25:32. | |
he will automatically be They say the party rules state | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
that it is only "challengers" to the leadership who are required | :25:35. | :25:45. | |
to collect nominations and that they have legal advice | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
to back up this view. Now that Angela Eagle has triggered | :25:48. | :25:49. | |
the process it is possible other challengers will emerge - | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith is yet | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
to decide whether to run himself. It is the party's National Executive | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
Committee who must make the final decision regarding the nominations | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
process and the timetable for the election - | :26:04. | :26:05. | |
they are expected to meet tomorrow. Other questions surround the current | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
membership of the Labour Party - over 100,000 people have joined | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
the party since the EU referendum - many stating their support | :26:14. | :26:21. | |
for Jeremy Corbyn. Once a leadership contest starts | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
the party will allow people to become "registered supporters" - | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
a system introduced for the contest last year which allows people | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
to vote in the leadership ballot by Let's speak to the Samuel Townend | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
from the Society of Labour Lawyers, who has given legal advice | :26:36. | :26:45. | |
to the party in the past. Welcome to the programme. What is | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
your legal opinion on the rules? Does Jeremy Corbyn need to get the | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
requisite nominations or not, to be on the ballot paper? The truth is, | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
Jo, that the rules are unclear on that point. Oh. Although there is | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
one part of the rules which says that potential challenges require | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
20% of the European and Parliamentary Labour Party to | :27:12. | :27:13. | |
nominate, there are other parts of the rules which talk about how | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
nominees have to present their nominations to the general secretary | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
in order to stand. So there is no doubt differing legal views given on | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
that point. So in the end it will be a political decision, if you like? | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
It will come down to the ruling executive who will decide, I presume | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
from what you've said. Have you seen the legal advice that has been given | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
to Iain MacCormick all, who is the general secretary of the Labour | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
Party, which states that Corbyn does need those nominations? No, I | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
haven't. The only legal advice available was an Jeremy Corbyn's | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
Twitter feed last night and I think it's been on the Huffington Post a | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
week or so ago, which was very clear and unambiguously stating that he | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
does not require the nominations. However, it also goes from a legal | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
point of view too far, in my view, in that it says it is an arguable | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
that it requires the nominations. But the rules themselves do not | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
address the position where you have an incumbent leader and whether or | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
not he or she requires the nominations. So it can't be an | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
arguable. There is an argument to be had and that, as you say, will be, | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
at least initially, determined by the NEC, which I understand is | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
meeting tomorrow. So just to be clear, the body of opinion in the | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
Labour Party that says he has to be on the ballot paper, that is not | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
necessarily the case? It could be argued that he could be kept off, | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
which, as you say, leaves it ambiguous in terms of any sort of | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
legal challenge. Because the key passage from the rule book reads, | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
"Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
potential challenges each year prior to the annual session of party | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
conference". In this case any nomination must be aborted by 20% of | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
the combined members of the PLP and the EPL pee, which is the European | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
Parliament rebate the party. "Any nomination," in your reading of it, | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
does that mean anyone, or is that assuming that the incumbent isn't | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
included? The legal advice goes both ways on that, I suspect. So | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
ultimately, as you say, it will be a political decision for the NEC | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
tomorrow, albeit that they will take legal advice. I understand that | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
legal advice has been given to the party but as I say, I don't know | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
what it says. And then ultimately, if the worst comes to the worst, the | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
disgruntled side, which ever it might be, may decide to pursue | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
matters further in the courts. Thank you very much. | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
A few minutes ago Angela Eagle launched her leadership bid. Let's | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
have a listen. These are dark times for the Labour Party and dangerous | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
times for our country. A referendum designed to settle an argument in | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
the Conservative Party has resulted in the country being torn apart. Our | :30:16. | :30:25. | |
economy damaged. Our society hurt. And at this time with a failed Prime | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
Minister and a tiny number of Conservative Party members choosing | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
the next one, our country needs a strong Labour Party. We alone can | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
hold this right-wing Tory government to account and then replace it by | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
winning a general election. APPLAUSE . | :30:52. | :31:03. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is unable to provide the leadership that this huge task | :31:04. | :31:12. | |
needs. I believe that I can. Angela Eagle launching her leadership bid. | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
Saying that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the leadership skills to | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
continue in the role. Christine Shawcross, who sits on the national | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
ruling executive, known as the NEC, joins us now. You're on the NEC, | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
we've just heard from Samuel talent the lawyer who said it would be up | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
to the NEC to interpret the leadership rules. In your mind, Ayew | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
clear that Jeremy Corbyn is on the ballot paper? I think it is clear | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
from those rules, when the rules were tidied up in the late 1990s, | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
the paper that went to conference had the explanation column and this | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
requires potential challengers to get nominations. This is papers that | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
went to conference and it refers only to potential challengers. But | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
he said it is arguable, and in this case it says any nominations must be | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
supported by 20% of all the members in parliament and in Europe. Do you | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
accept that? But it's clearly refers to the sentence before which talks | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
about challengers leading nominations and that any nomination | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
must get 20%. So the rules are perfectly clear. Does everyone agree | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
with you on the NEC, I understand it is evenly split? I have not seen | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
this, we have not had legal advice or any recommendations out yet we | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
will have to see what is put to the meeting. When you see both sets of | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
legal advice as members of the NEC at the meeting tomorrow? I should | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
imagine so. There will be a report. We have the advice that Jeremy | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
Corbyn is automatically on the paper in any case. That is the advice that | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
has been presented to Ian Nichol. If you cannot agree, you know the | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
members of the NEC, you know how they will split in terms of voting, | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
what will happen if you cannot agree? I think there are enough | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
people on the NEC, whether they supported Jeremy Arnott, to | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
understand that the party expect the Democratic contest and anything that | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
looks like it is keeping someone off a ballot paper deliberately, this | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
will not go down well with the membership and people on the NEC | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
will understand that. What do you say to that, Chuka Umuna, should he | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
be on the ballot paper? I'm a lawyer, I have read the rules and it | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
is not clear what the rules say. And to pretend otherwise is absurd. | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
Essentially the NEC will make a political decision on this. You have | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
the Parliamentary party of MPs, we are Parliamentary party, we believe | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
in implementing socialism through Parliament and that is why it | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
matters whether or not your reader can command the confidence of its | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
MPs. MPs by the way you have a mandate from 9.3 million Labour | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
voters. You have a problem in the sense that we've got to reconcile | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
that mandate that they have from 9.3 million Labour voters with the | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
mandate he has fun children 31,000 members and that is why this process | :34:19. | :34:20. | |
should hopefully enable to reconcile those. I take issue with Len | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
McCluskey, by the way. I will come to that in a second. First the | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
response from Christine Shawcross about the legitimacy of MPs being a | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
parliamentary deadlock city and without their support Jeremy Corbyn | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
is not illegitimate leader. -- democracy. The rank-and-file | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
membership one to work with the Parliamentary Labour Party. We | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
support MPs and we feel many of them older position to us doing a lot of | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
that leafleting and knocking on doors. If we are to respect the | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party it needs to be a two-way process. They need | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
to respect the democratic decision that was made barely ten months ago. | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
What I would say in respect of Christina, I have known her for some | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
time and know that she is a campaigner and goes out on the | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
doorsteps and has done the work for the Labour Party. Luckily I see a | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
lot of new people who have come into the party who often have been | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
members of other parties especially the Green Party, socialist workers | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
party, who come in and tell existing members in my constituency party who | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
do all the work, off you go. We're not doing that and that is why there | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
is an area of agreement I have with Diane Abbott is money when she spoke | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
of a split in the Labour Party. There is not going to be a split. I | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
do not see how Ondray first past the post electoral system which we must | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
abolish and in my view replace with abortion or representation, how the | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
new party could come into being. And further to be a split it would | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
require people like me to walk away. I have been a member and have worked | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
hard to get Labour government elected, working hard on civil | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
partnerships and the rest, in the face of people campaigning to stop | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
us doing that, for 20 years. I'm not walking away from my party at this | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
junction and for people who have been members just for two minutes, | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
saying the Labour Party can no longer be a broad church. It is | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
straightforward. And statements from people like Len McCluskey, I presume | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
he's speaking about Chuka Umuna, speaking of bullying the Labour | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
Party and being a lynch mob, is that the sort of language you think will | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
unite the party? It is a disgrace, that language. I am a member of the | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
Labour Party and have been twice as long as Chuka Umuna. I have seen the | :36:43. | :36:49. | |
branches being integrated with now twice as many people active in my | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
branch of the Labour Party, coming to the meetings and doing all the | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
work, going out on doorsteps. There has been talk about this but I think | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
his people returning, not entering. People left over the Iraq War. The | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
kind of bullying and intimidation that we have not seen for a long | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
time in the Labour Party stop piracy issue that people have on the | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
current leadership is competent. We had a vote last Monday and were | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
instructed to abstain on an increase in employment tribunal fees. I ask | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
what the Labour Party is doing abstaining on a vote like this. And | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
then too late in the day, the whip was slightly changed and we did | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
nothing on that issue. If I was Business Secretary, if we had won | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
the election last year, we would have abolished the very unfair and | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
unjust employment tribunal fees scheme. That harms members of the | :37:46. | :37:53. | |
Unite union. And nothing was done about it on Monday so I'm not | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
surprised why you have half of the Unite union members saying they want | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
to see change. In the end it is not the members who suffer about the | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
communities that the Labour Party was set up to serve, hard-working | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
people who need a Labour government implement promoting their values. | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
There is a charge of incompetence, or lacking leadership skills, to win | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
the next election. You believe that Jeremy Corbyn can win the next | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
general election? Absolutely. They have been a lot of reverses against | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
the Tories was Jamie has been leader, we have won by-elections | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
with increased majorities. The man is brave and principled, honest and | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
inspiring, he inspired all these members to join the Labour Party, | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
for more than other political party put together. Why then cannot | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
convince MPs like Chuka Umuna, if it is so clear in your mind and so many | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
new members, why is 80% of the Parliamentary party accusing him of | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
being a poor leader? At the last two general elections we lost with | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
policies very much on the austerity light, Tory light theme. That is | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
ridiculous. What was that about heckling and bullying! That is why | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
the Labour Party membership were keen to have a different kind of | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
politician leading us. John McDonnell has just adopted exactly | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
the same economic position in respect of our fiscal policy as Ed | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
Balls and to suggest that somehow we're standing on an austerity like | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
Digg it is ridiculous. We would have introduced a blacklisting enquiry, | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
which the Conservatives refuse to do, would have introduced more | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
stringent rules on zero hours contrast. -- contract. I would | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
project this version that we are warmed up version of the Tory party. | :39:41. | :39:48. | |
How dare anyone suggest that. We're saying we are going to make cuts as | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
well, not as bad as the Tory party but making cuts. No wonder that | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
working-class people are not inspired. But of course John | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
McDonnell has said he would have hands-on economic competence, that | :40:03. | :40:04. | |
he would instruct some cuts to be made. Was he wrong? I think there is | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
a big difference, every difference in the world between the kind of | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
policies on which we fought the last two general elections, and the kind | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
of policies that the later leadership are now espousing. -- | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
Labour leadership. You are fundamentally disagreeing, you say | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
you will not walk away from the party but would not be better to | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
allow Jeremy Corbyn to be on the ballot paper, define that leadership | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
contest and if you believe so strongly that members will support | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
your view, then win the leadership contest. Do you back Angela Eagle | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
question mark I'm pleased Angela has challenged and think it was right | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
for people in the party to say if the Parliamentary Labour Party has | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
no confidence, where is the challenger. I welcome the challenge | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
from Angela Eagle and think we should have a robust debate. In the | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
end I do not know, I think this will be a political decision. What do you | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
think that he should be on the ballot paper? I think we should | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
follow the rules we have, but you need to get nominations. He accepted | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
that. And let's not forget, when you'll connect was challenged for | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
the leadership back in the day, Jeremy Corbyn was one of the leading | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
people to challenge him. And they seem to demand that you'll connect | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
get nominations then so it seems slightly contradictory now to say | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
that because Germany is in the leader 's office, he should not also | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
had to stand. Well you can chose to get those nominations, it is not | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
clear whether he had to. When you have got little parties, we are not | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
protest groups, I believe, I do not agree, I think the leader of | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
momentum yesterday said winning elections. Not matter but I think | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
winning elections and implemented Labour values are mutually dependent | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
things. So having a leader who can implement an agenda through the | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
Parliamentary party is so important. Andrea Leadsom could see where the | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
Tories were going to head and that is part of the reason that she | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
pulled out. So you still want Jeremy Corbyn, it seems he will not do that | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
at the moment, he has made it clear that he is going to stand with a | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
powerful union behind him, but in terms of going ahead you think that | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
Angela Eagle would make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn? | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
Yes, and I believe people watching this programme not only want a | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
Labour Party which is electable but once a credible opposition, join our | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
party to make it happen because at the moment many people do not think | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
they have a choice of the next general election. Angela Eagle will | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
give them that. If it comes to it and in the end Jeremy Corbyn is not | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
automatically on the ballot paper, will you and others at that stage | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
leaves the Labour Party, and decide it has been a stitch up and break | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
away? We have been through quite a few stitch ups over the past few | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
years and have seen quite a few tweaks to the Labour Party rules | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
since you'll connect's time. Angela Eagle put out a memo to all members | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
saying she respected their views, she would work with whoever they | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
voted for and so on. I voted for her as deputy leader on that basis. And | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
less than a year later she has gone back on that. I think we need a | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
leader that we can trust. And if he's not automatically on the ballot | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
paper and does not get the requisite emanations, what would you do Chris | :43:21. | :43:28. | |
Rock there will be a big campaign, it is impossible to say now what | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
might happen, but certainly I have always encouraged people to stay in | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
the Labour Party and fight for what we believe in. Thank you very much. | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
Back to the news that Andrea Leadsom has pulled out | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
Leaving the field clear for Theresa May to become Prime Minister. | :43:41. | :43:51. | |
Graham Brady, the Chairman of the 1922 Committee which oversees | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
the conduct of Conservative leadership elections, | :43:55. | :43:55. | |
has made this statement in the past few minutes. | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
Following the decision of Mrs Andrea Leadsom to withdraw | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
from the Conservative leadership contest, the | :44:02. | :44:02. | |
right honourable Mrs Theresa May is the only remaining candidate. | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
The process is now that I, as chairman | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
of the 1922 committee, and the board of the Conservative Party, must | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
formally confirm that Mrs May is the new leader | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
I will make a further statement as soon as I am in a | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
I've had a very useful conversation with Rob | :44:24. | :44:36. | |
Semple, and we will be seeking to get | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
answers from the party board during the course of this afternoon. | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
Will Theresa May be Prime Minister by the end of the day? | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
I think we need to respect the process. | :44:47. | :44:48. | |
There are constitutional things which need to be followed as | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
But clearly we are going to be in a position to answer | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
those questions much sooner than we had previously anticipated. | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
Can you give us an idea of how long we might be waiting? | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
Playing a straight bat, Graham Berry Dee outside the Houses of | :45:05. | :45:17. | |
Parliament, stating the obvious, that Theresa May will be premised, | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
it is just a matter of time and working through the due process but | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
as he said, it won't be nine weeks away, it will be much sooner. And of | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
course as soon we know, we will tell you. | :45:30. | :45:31. | |
Now - there were strong criticisms of Tony Blair and his decision | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
to take Britain to war in Iraq in last week's Chilcot Report, | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
but Sir John did not rule on the legality of the war | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
or the former Prime Minister's guilt. | :45:42. | :45:43. | |
But now a cross-party group of MPs is attempting to have Mr Blair held | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
in contempt of Parliament and yesterday on the Andrew Marr | :45:47. | :45:48. | |
Show, Jeremy Corbyn suggested he would be supporting the move. | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
I urge colleagues to read the Butler Report and read | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
the Chilcot Report about the way in which Parliament was denied | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
the information it should have had, the way in which there was lack | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
of preparations for the post-invasion situation | :46:02. | :46:02. | |
in Iraq and the way there were the assertions of weapons | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
Parliament must hold to account, including Tony Blair, those who took | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
That is surely what a Parliamentary democracy is about. | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
Let me try and finish with a yes or no. | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
So vote for the contempt motion, yes or no? | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
Well, I haven't seen it yet but I think I probably would. | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
And we're joined now from Aberdeen by one of those campaigning | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
for Tony Blair to face Contempt of Parliament charges, | :46:27. | :46:28. | |
Alex Salmond, just explain to our viewers, what does content of | :46:29. | :46:38. | |
Parliament actually mean in practice? A contempt motion, if it's | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
carried, then would have a range of potential penalties. It would mean | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
that someone could be dragged to the Baro the House of Commons, it means | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
they could be stripped of their Privy Council ship, it would mean | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
they could be barred from ever holding public office again. The | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
exact range of penalties would be determined by a Commons committee | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
but first you would have to have the verdict before you got the sentence. | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
Right, and in terms of the verdict this would be a motion that would | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
say that Tony Blair had deceived Parliament, is that right? This | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
would be a motion that says exactly that he held Parliament... | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
Parliament holds him in contempt because of his behaviour and it | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
would illustrate the range of evidence for that, which is amply | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
demonstrated in Chilcot. The most powerful aspect in my mind is that | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
over a period of almost 18 months, if you juxtapose the private members | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
that work given to George W Bush, the American president, with the | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
public statements given to Parliament on the people, it is | :47:42. | :47:43. | |
quite clear that Parliament was misled on a series of issues over a | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
series of months. This wasn't a single mistake or two, this was a | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
deliberate campaign of deception, as Jeremy Corbyn rightly said, and dog | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
any Parliament worth its salt must have the courage to rise to the | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
question of Parliamentary accountability. But Sir John Chilcot | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
also said in a report that the legal basis for the walk was reached in a | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
way that was far from satisfactory. He didn't explicitly say it was | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
illegal. He also said clearly that Tony Blair didn't lie, that there | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
wasn't a deliberate intention to take the country to war on a false | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
premise, even though we know now that weapons of mass destruction | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
didn't exist in Iraq. On the first of these, that wasn't within | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
Chilcot's terms of reference to rule the war illegal, as you well know, | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
and as you probably also know, the government is denying a Freedom of | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
Information request at the present moment which would set out what the | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
range of background papers was as to why that was excluded from Chilcot's | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
terms of reference. You greater Chilcot as the background for your | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
motion and he didn't talk about the legality or illegality of the war. | :48:54. | :49:00. | |
He said the legal basis was unsatisfactory but can I just repeat | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
the point, what you require for a contempt motion is to show that over | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
a period of time, the Prime Minister was saying one thing in private to | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
the resident of the United States of America, involving, for example, | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
speculation on Regine changed toward the end of 2001 doc by the summer of | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
2002, he was committing himself unconditionally to be with the | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
President of America come what may and by the spring of 2003, | :49:27. | :49:34. | |
princesses were going on in the United Nations which Chilcot | :49:35. | :49:36. | |
described as undermining the authority of the United Nations. | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
These juxtapose with what he was saying to Parliament and to people. | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
What he was saying to Parliament was something else entirely. He was | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
saying to Parliament that this war was not about regime change, it was | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
about weapons of mass destruction. He gave knowing the mission that he | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
committed himself to war, the contrary he said he was striving for | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
peace. On the United Nations he told parliament that he would only go | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
against the will of the night of nations if there was an unreasonable | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
veto from a single country. All of these areas, over a period of time, | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
he was misleading parliament by saying one thing in private to the | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
American president and another thing totally in public to Parliament and | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
the people. That is contempt. Let's about a Chuka Umunna. Is there | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
enough evidence, as Alex and has set out, to show that Tony Blair misled | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
Parliament on number of occasions? I think Chilcot is inconclusive on | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
that and I think Alex Salmond is in no better position than Chilcot to | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
pass judgment on the legality or not. He is not just fighting the | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
legality. Alex Salmond is citing a whole range of issues. Most of the | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
people who cite that cite the summit between the president of the USA and | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
Tony Blair in Crawford, Texas. We will be with you whatever, he said | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
that memo. He was accused of committing to taking military action | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
whatever and that was denied there was apparently no evidence for it, | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
according the Chilcot Report. I wasn't in Parliament at the time. I | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
fundamentally disagreed with the decision to go to war because I | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
didn't feel it was a last resort I felt the weapons inspectors should | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
be given more time to do their work. At the time, I wasn't a public | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
figure, I wasn't on the record as saying this, but that was my | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
position. But I think the most important thing, given all the death | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
and bloodshed, is that we learn lessons from the mistakes that were | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
made and they are never repeated again and I think that would be far | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
more useful for us. If this motion is passed off contempt, I'm not too | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
sure what it really achieves. That's the issue. Is this posturing or are | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
we actually trying to make sure that we don't have bloodshed in the | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
future but also that where we believe we can make a difference and | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
reduce blood to the world by acting to terribly, that people feel they | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
can take that decision. Where does this get us? Where does it get us, | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
Alex Salmond? We've had seven years way to the Chilcot Report. Was | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
thorough, it was fairly conclusive in terms of the blame at it laid the | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
doors of many, many people including Tony Blair. Is that not now the end | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
of it? Let me help Chuka Umunna with his evidence. If he reads even the | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
summary on page 34, a memo from Jack Straw to Tony Blair, which reads, | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
"When Bush graciously accepted your offer to be with him all the way," | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
and if he bothers to read the full report, as I have done, he will find | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
ample evidence. To answer the question about why we should do | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
this, there is a question beyond the processes of government to one of | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
Parliamentary accountability because, I was in Parliament and on | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
the record, against the Iraq war on every possible occasion. I accept as | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
a collective responsibility of Parliament to critically examine | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
what we are being fed by the Executive of the date and one of the | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
ways you can establish that is to show that Parliament believes in | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
that process of accountability now and just as we should accept | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
collective responsible is evil Parliamentary failures, you | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
illustrate that by holding those who misled Parliament to account, so | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
that a sequence of events such as the Iraq disaster never happens | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
again. Thank you. My Jill Evans, a last word on this. The Speaker has | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
to decide that this motion is put to the House. What do you think John | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
Bercow will do? I don't know is the answer. John has been incredibly | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
good at allowing Parliament as much say as events as possible. So I | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
would not be surprised at all if this motion is actually put to | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
Parliament and let them have their say. I've been an MP for 24 years, I | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
don't believe in that period I've had a contempt motion coming before | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
Parliament. I think it was the 1950s the last time somebody was dragged | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
to the bar of the House to apologise but I've got used since June 23 to | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
uncharted waters so we are where we are. Thank you. Let's go back to our | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
main story, Andrea Leadsom's erratic announcement that she is withdrawing | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
from the Conservative leadership race. -- dramatic announcement. In | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
the last few mitts, Theresa May's campaign manager, Chris Grayling, | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
has made this statement. Theresa is currently on her way back to London | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
from Birmingham and she will be making a statement later today but | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
on her behalf, I'd just like to say that she is enormously honoured to | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
have been entrusted with this task by so many of her Parliamentary | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
colleagues. As Andrea's statement made clear this morning, now is the | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
time for us to unite as a party and to get on with the job of doing | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
everything we can to secure a strong and prosperous and successful future | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
of our country. I know, we all know, that Theresa will do everything she | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
can to equip our country for the challenges that lie ahead. Chris | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
Grayling, spokesman for Theresa May, and she is making her way back to | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
London, as you would expect, bearing in mind the fast-moving events. | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
Listening to that archive and the of the Mirror and Lucy Fisher of the | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
Times, who are on College Green. At the beginning of the programme, | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
Nigel Evans said he was gobsmacked by what had happened. How have you | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
responded? Politics is changing at the world in speed. It has been | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
since the Brexit vote. Nothing is certainly more but today we do have | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
a new Prime Minister, it's Theresa May, and because Andrea Leadsom | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
pulled out, in her statement avoiding the motherhood row which we | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
believe she couldn't stand any more and she was in tears and a broken | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
woman over it, and why she's gone, she ignored that, but it remains | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
that 199 Conservative MPs have now picked the Conservative Prime | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
Minister of Britain. We thought it would be 150,000 Tory members, but | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
it is an even smaller group. The only thing we could say with | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
certainty was it was going to be a woman but that was where it stopped. | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
What was your reaction when you heard that Andrea Leadsom was | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
stepping out? Again, very surprised. I don't think any of us necessarily | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
saw this coming today. I think this is going to spark a big conversation | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
now about whether there is going to need to be a general election. Of | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
course in the UK we don't have a presidential system but many people | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
might think, we voted for David Cameron as Prime Minister, it's not | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
OK to have just a tiny handful of MPs select the chief of our country. | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
Do you think there should be a general election, Kevin Maguire? I | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
do. I don't think Gordon Brown's correlation worked very well for | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
him, Labour Britain. It is really a quasi-presidential system now | :56:45. | :56:46. | |
because of the importance of the Prime Minister and the profile of | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
the Prime Minister. It means the government will be led, the country | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
will be led, the nearly four years by somebody who wasn't elected at a | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
general election. Under the fixed in Parliament act, there are only two | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
ways to have a general election. One is a vote of no-confidence in the | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
government or the other is two thirds of MPs voting for an early | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
election. If Theresa May as Prime Minister, after she's had her kitten | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
heels under the Cabinet table for a few months, decides she wants one, | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
she could challenge Labour in its very sorry state to actually go for | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
early general election. It would be very hard for an opposition party, | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
who are supposed to want power, who are supposed to want to govern now, | :57:27. | :57:28. | |
supposed to want an election, to resist that offer. What about the | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
Brexit negotiations? One Andrea Leadsom read out her letter to | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
Graham Brady, she said Theresa May now will have to step up and push | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
ahead with the Brexit negotiations. Will they happen much more quickly, | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
do you think? I don't know about speed but I think we've seen | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
Brexiters coming out on social media, feeling quite annoyed at the | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
speed at which Theresa May has been correlated. I think they were | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
inspecting this nine week campaign, during which time the word hoping to | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
extort from her much further promises and confirmations asked | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
what she plans to do with Brexit so I think there will be concern among | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
Brexit MPs and campaigners. That's going to be critical now, isn't it, | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
Kevin Maguire, on exactly how those negotiations pan out, or there will | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
be bitter disappointment from many Google? Absolutely and Lucy appoints | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
as Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, who is going to be leading the | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
negotiation team. The Brexit group art going to want to buy a strong | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
part. I have a sense of grievance but is astonishing that now all the | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
levers have left the race, it is going to be a remain a. It is almost | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
a mirror image to what we got in the vote for the referendum. It is a | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
topsy-turvy world. Briefly on the Labour contest, Lucy, do you think | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
Jeremy Corbyn will be on that balance paper automatically? | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
Personally, I can't see how this contest goes ahead without him being | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
on it. Tomorrow we have the importance of National Executive | :58:55. | :58:56. | |
Committee meeting which will decide the legality of whether he | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
automatically gets on or need 51 MPs' signatures. I think there will | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
be such a sense of injustice if he's not on the contest. Many people we | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
think don't even support of thing, this is an cricket, Andy Goodge to | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
groundswell of support even from people who don't support him. In the | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
closing seconds of the programme, do you agree with that, Kevin, and if | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
so would he win again? He would win again and he should be allowed to | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
stand for basic democratic reasons but given politics is so crazy at | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
the moment, Labour could well try and keep him off. At the party split | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
at that point? I think it would splinter and fracture but quite how | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
fundamental the split is we don't know. You could have two bits of the | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
party that hate each other trying to live together. You'd better get back | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
into Parliament. Something might have changed in the time you been | :59:43. | :59:45. | |
speaking to be. I don't want to predict what is going to be on the | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
programme tomorrow because there are many hours to go but that's it for | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
today. Thank you to our guests, particularly you two for being our | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
guests of the day. One of the news is starting on BBC One now. Al be | :59:56. | :00:01. | |
back tomorrow. By. -- the one o'clock | :00:02. | :00:02. |