Browse content similar to 18/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
The two people challenging Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
leadership will be making their pitch to fellow MPs today, | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
but will a unity candidate emerge and if so, who? | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
The Labour leader seems to be taking the threat to his position as a bit | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
We'll be looking at what happens next in this battle | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
The vote on whether to replace the Trident nuclear weapons system | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
could hardly have come at a worse time for Labour. | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
Is the government forcing the issue just to divide their opponents? | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
Politics has been a pretty rough business recently, | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
but can some of the blame for that be laid at the door | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
And as Boris Johnson takes to the world stage for the first | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
time as foreign secretary, we'll be asking is he the right man | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
And things may be hotting up here at Westminster, | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
in more ways than one, but I'm joined by two MPs who are | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
always as cool as cucumbers - it's the Conservative MP | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
Nicholas Soames and the Labour MP Lisa Nandy, both sheltering | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
from the heatwave in our studio for the rest of the show. | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
First today, Theresa May is in Cardiff this morning meeting | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
with the first minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones. | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
We're told the new Prime Minister will emphasise her strong personal | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
support for the union, and repeat her commitment to working | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
with the devolved governments of the UK ahead of negotiations | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
The man who'll be responsible for those negotiations | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
is David Davis, the Secretary of State for exiting the EU, | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
and he talked to Sky News yesterday about his hopes for new trade deals | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Liam is going around the world and he is going to be making huge | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
trade deals all over the place and we'll get a very, | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
very large trade deal, much bigger than the European Union, | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
I'm not going to set Liam targets, but a multiple of the size | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
And the moment we leave they will all come in. | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
That is actually an enormous upside to this thing. | :02:48. | :02:56. | |
He sounded very confident, do you think this Brexit idea from a remain | :02:57. | :03:05. | |
perspective may succeed? Let's hope for all our sakes that it does. | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
David Davis is right, there are big opportunities for trade, but the | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
problem is it is all very well to get agreement in principle on a | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
trade deal, but to get from point a to point B is a very complex and | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
difficult matter. That will be a factor in the speed at which these | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
transactions will be undertaken. Do you think this optimism is not going | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
to be genuinely felt when it comes to former negotiations? No, we have | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
to be optimistic about the future, but it has to be optimism tinged | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
with realism. Australia has already called for a free-trade deal with | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
Britain following our exit from the European Union when it comes, so | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
people are up for it. It is right we should be exploring all of the | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
opportunities, but I was worried when I saw David Davies claiming | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
they would have a trade deal that was perhaps bigger than the whole of | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
that world trade that is available to us. It seems we have learned very | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
little from the Brexit campaign which made claims that did not stack | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
up and which they later abandoned. What we want to see in a job like | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
that is somebody who is optimistic but realistic and he does not fit | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the bill. In terms of scaremongering, some of that came | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
from the remain side, particularly from people like George Osborne, and | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
Liam Fox, the new International trade Secretary, he says he is | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
working on about a dozen trade deals and out of that welcome something | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
that will benefit us. I agree with the idea about being entirely | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
realistic. I think David Davis is right to be optimistic and to get | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
people to lift their eyes to the hills and to see what is going to | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
come, but it will be a long, hard slog. Of course the Canadians and | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
the Americans will all want to do trade deals with us and it does not | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
happen overnight. We will have to be realistic about how long this will | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
take. How long will it take? David Davis has already set out a broad | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
timetable, trigger article 50 and it is all set up by January 20 19. None | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
of these things go like rail lines and a train on rail lines and I | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
think we need to press on as quickly as we can. You would go for a quick | :05:28. | :05:35. | |
starts I would do what Liam Fox is doing, which is to get on with | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
overtures to our friends. The Trade Minister, together with Mark Price, | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
the former Trade Minister, they will go round all our potential partners | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
getting in place the architecture so that we can press forward. If we | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
cannot formally negotiate until Article 50 is triggered... No one | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
knows when that will be. Is he the right man for the job? When I was | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
Minister for the Armed Forces David Davis was a minister for Europe and | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
he is a very confident, clever, tough negotiator. You were shaking | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
your head. What we need to hear from David Davis, or whoever Theresa May | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
chooses in this critical position, him and Liam Fox and Boris Johnson | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
have all been tasked with major relations with the rest of the | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
world. We need to hear about the terms of the deals and who they | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
benefit. They cannot be conducted behind closed doors and they must | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
benefit the workforce here and not just be done on the basis we will | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
take whatever deal we can get. Deals have been consistently one of the | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
ways that the UK has been a force for good in the UK and the rest of | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
the world. I have not heard anything from any of the people she is | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
accounted about anything like that. The UK could continue to get tariff | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
free access to the European market whilst allowing it to impose rules | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
on immigration. That sounds like having it all. There is no such | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
thing as having it all. We are at the beginning of this very long | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
process and Lisa knows that very well. These trade deals need to be | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
good trade deals. Would that be a good one? That would be wonderful if | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
we could get it. But one does not assume that it is all going to be | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
plain sailing with the European Union, but we have to make our case | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
for the best possible deal we can get. | :07:36. | :07:35. | |
The question for today is about Labour leader Jeremy | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
He learnt about a new playground craze thanks to Adam | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
on the Sunday Politics, but what was that craze? | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
At the end of the show, Nicholas and Lisa will give | :07:47. | :07:57. | |
I know this one. I have never seen you so excited. There is no prize. | :07:58. | :08:09. | |
MPs will vote this afternoon on whether to renew the UK's Trident | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
In one of her first acts as Prime Minister, Theresa May | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
will move a motion in the commons saying that Trident remains | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
essential to the UK's security and to protecting our way of life. | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
The Trident weapons system currently operates | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
To maintain this requires four submarines, one armed | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
The current fleet of submarines is due to become obsolete by the end | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
of the decade and will begin to end their working lives some | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
MPs need to decide now whether to replace them | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
as new submarines could take up to seventeen years to develop. | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
The government says it will cost ?31 billion to renew, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
but opponents like the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament put | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
the estimate far higher at over ?200 billion. | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
The Conservatives committed to renewing Trident in their 2015 | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
manifesto, but the Labour party is split over the issue. | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
While leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes renewal and will vote | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
against the motion he has given his MPs a free vote | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
and many look set to support the Government's renewal plans. | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry, however, | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
says she will abstain because the Government | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
is using the decision to "play games with the Labour Party". | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
The SNP are unanimous in their opposition to Trident | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
and all 54 of their MPs will vote against today's motion. | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
Speaking to the BBC this morning defence Secretary Michael Fallon | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
insisted the vote, which isn't binding, | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
We have postponed this vote for several months now | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
because of the referendum and the elections before it. | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
There will be a large number of Labour MPs, | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
I hope MPs from all sides of the House, who have always | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
supported a nuclear deterrent and I hope will be voting | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
We don't see this as a party political issue. | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
I hope we will get the largest possible majority from Parliament. | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
That was Michael Fallon. We are joined by the Green Party MP | :10:20. | :10:28. | |
Caroline Lucas. Welcome. Lisa Nandi, which way will you go? I will not be | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
supporting the motion because having read it, it has become very clear | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
that what Theresa May is doing is abandoning the commitment to | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
multi-natural disarmament which my party has believed in ever since the | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
beginning of nuclear weapons. This marks a shift in the Tory party's | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
position. I will listen to what she has got to say, but if I do not hear | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
a plan around multilateral disarmament, I will be voting | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
against. You had been in favour, you are changing your position. I am not | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
a pacifist, I believe there are reasons to think we may need a | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
nuclear deterrent now and Trident may be that solution. But the truth | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
is just you recognise the conditions | :11:13. | :11:27. | |
for disarmament do not currently exist, it does not mean we should | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
not aspire to rid the world of nuclear weapons and take concrete | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
steps to do that. What Theresa May has done in the wording of this | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
motion today is to take that off the table, definitely for 20-30 years, | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
but potentially for good, and I am concerned about that. There was a | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
phrase that said, we commit ourselves to nuclear weapons for as | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
long as the global security situation demands. That is an open | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
ended, vague statement which goes back on the commitments we have made | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
as a country and for my party in government and I cannot support | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
that. What do you say? Of course I respect views like that and there | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
are very honourable views held on both sides. I was a defence Minister | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
for five years in the 90s and nothing has changed my views since I | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
was party to the information that I knew about them. I think the world | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
has become more dangerous, not less dangerous, and nothing that I have | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
seen that I can usefully forecast myself as far out as I can possibly | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
see leads me to believe that would be the case. What about the point | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
about in terms of removing some sort of commitment are looking at this | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
idea of disarmament if the world becomes more secure? I do not think | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
that is the case. If there was an opportunity for us to decide on an | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
equal, sane, sensible, Safeway, I am quite sure we would. That moment | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
does not exist now and we must take the decision to get on and that is | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
why the Prime Minister has brought this motion today. We have made the | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
decision to get on. Parliament had about several years ago. Part of | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
that was that Margaret Beckett at the time made concrete steps that | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
the government would take to lead the world in multilateral | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
disarmament. Whichever way you look, the behaviour of the Russians, the | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
nuclear situation all over the world is becoming more and more difficult. | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
Do not go ahead with this would not be a safe thing for our country. In | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
the past you have sent thousands of jobs would be at stake. Have you | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
changed your mind? Will you let down those people whose jobs would be at | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
risk? This is something I have to make a decision about as every | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
member of Parliament does today. If I was in Theresa May's position and | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
in my civil servants brought me a motion, a plan that said, we will | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
renew Trident, we will not consider any alternatives, we will not | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
consider how much it costs because we do not know over the lifetime how | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
much it will cost because the government has not done a | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
projection, and we are not going to do that alongside any multilateral | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
disarmament. I would say to them, take it away and bring me something | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
better. The Labour Party does not know what its position is and are | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
you disappointed that Jeremy Corbyn, who will vote against it, as he has | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
done, but he has not taken the party with him, it will be a free vote? I | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
am disappointed. Jeremy Hunt is a fantastic record on nuclear | :14:33. | :14:34. | |
disarmament and nobody could have any doubts about where he comes from | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
and it has been a challenge for him to bring his party with him and that | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
is a shame. There is a process going on right now at the UN, 130 | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
countries are engaged in discussions about banning nuclear weapons. Our | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
government has boycotted even being involved in those discussions which | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
is unacceptable. Meanwhile, nuclear weapons make us less safe, not more | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
safe. There was a scary report from Chatham House a couple of years ago | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
talking about 13 near misses which you do not hear about much of the | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
time. There is always the possibility of accidents and | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
materials falling into the hands of terrorists and that is a far greater | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
risk. The government's own Strategic Defence Review put nuclear war at a | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
tiered two risk, below international problems. But we are still living in | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
unstable times if you look across the world from the Middle East to | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
Russia to perhaps even closer to home with Turkey and this would not | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
be the time to send the wrong message? | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
It is the time to send a message we will not be threatening the rest of | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
the world, one submarine could wipe out 10 million civilians and the | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
moral arguments, they are huge. We live in an uncertain world with | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
terrorism and the more countries that aspire to get nuclear weapons, | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
the more likely terrorists will get hold of it. We are a mature nuclear | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
weapons state, we have had the nuclear weapons for very long time. | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
We are of Nato. Fully integrated into the American and global Nato | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
system. Is it the right answer? Yes, in my view. Lisa said something, an | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
important point. There is an enormous amount of work going on for | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
years about the alternatives, it is not true to say they have not done | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
that, that work has been done. As the conclusion that the Prime | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
Minister has drawn and the government is that it would be wrong | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
to gamble with the safety and security of Britain and we must go | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
ahead and ordered the new generation. The bigger gamble is | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
nuclear weapons. The Chatham House report mentions Jimmy Carter left | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
the nuclear code in his trouser pocket when they went to the dry | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
cleaners! This is the madness of nuclear weapons. I do not think that | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
is a serious point. It is a very serious point. Let's not bring it to | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
the dry cleaning. There is another point about safety. In 1968, we | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
struck a bargain with other countries who did not have nuclear | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
weapons that I would not look to acquire nuclear weapons on the basis | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
we would take steps to disarm. Whichever way you look at it, we | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
have not done that. We have not done it in the last decade. We are | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
breaking a bargain with other countries and that makes is | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
fundamentally unsafe. The Chilcot report in Iraq, what did we learn? | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
When you break the international rules binding us together, you | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
create new threats and make everybody fundamentally unsafe. Do | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
you think other countries will disarm if we do? Only if Britain | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
takes a read Will we see a world free of nuclear weapons. Like | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
Margaret Beckett, I am not sure we will see it in my lifetime. The idea | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
we now take this from the table which is what this motion does | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
today, is something nobody... Will the let Eber MPs change their mind | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
-- other Labour MPs change their mind? I genuinely do not know. You | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
said the Labour party is split and I think a number of MPs were going to | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
the chamber as I will do is listen to what Theresa May has the same. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
The motion and the way it is worded is so hard. It is very difficult. If | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
that is the case, what respectable opposition goes into an important | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
vote like this without a policy one way or the other? The policy... We | :18:32. | :18:39. | |
do have a policy. You are allowed a free vote. The Shadow Foreign | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
Secretary and Shadow Defence Secretary will abstain. How you | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
abstain on such an important issue? Emily and Clive have written a piece | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
together saying they believe this is a game and they will not play a part | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
in it. Part of the reason, let me make this point, is because | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
Parliament has already voted for this so the fact Theresa May has | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
chosen as the first act as Prime Minister... Is it incredible to | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
abstain or not? The reason I am going into the chamber today and | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
likely will vote against is because I do not agree with the wording of | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
the motion. You still represent a party that does not have a view one | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
way or the other that has been agreed upon. Looking at that article | :19:30. | :19:39. | |
that Clive wrote, essentially, it is saying they think it is a game | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
because they assume it will definitely go through. If we had an | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
opposition opposing, it would not necessarily need to be that way, | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
this is an opportunity for Labour to join with the Green Party and the | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
SNP and Plaid Cymru and oppose this policy and it could make a | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
difference and the idea this is a game does not stand up. Can I | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
endorse that? I agree, it is not a game. It is not going to change | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
anything. The final sanction of going ahead is going to go ahead. | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
Everything is reduced in commentary to politics being a game. This is | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
not a game, this is one of the biggest decisions any government has | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
to make. To provide for continuous deterrence. They need to get on with | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
it. The Prime Minister will also shortly make a statement about other | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
stuff the government needs to get on with. This is not a game, this is | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
fundamental and of primary importance to the safety and | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
security of this country and of course I respect the views of those | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
who have strong views against it, it is a complex and difficult decision. | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
But it is not a game. If it is not just a game, is it strange Theresa | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
May has brought this forward with any projections about the cost and | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
plan for disarmament and answers to questions like, if Scotland was to | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
vote for independence, whether submarines would be based? Critical | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
questions. She literally has no answer! What does happen in the | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
event of Scotland? The SNP is clear in their position, we do not know | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
what will happen in terms of a second referendum, what would happen | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
to where they will be based and built? I cannot answer that. Sadly, | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
the Prime Minister did not make me a Defence Minister! Maybe that will | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
happen! We will have to do the cost another day. Thank you. | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
In less than an hour, the two MPs who are challenging | :21:39. | :21:40. | |
Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour Party will make | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
their pitch to their fellow MPs at a hustings in parliament. | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
The two hopefuls are former Shadow Business Secretary Angela Eagle | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
and former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith. | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
Mr Smith says there needs to be a unity candidate to take | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
on Mr Corbyn, but Ms Eagle says it's too early to talk about that idea. | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
Here they both are sharing a sofa together on the Andrew | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
How do you decide between the two of you who is the more | :22:01. | :22:08. | |
That is one way which we could do it, or we could make | :22:09. | :22:27. | |
an agreement between ourselves, but my view is whoever is the person | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
who commands the largest degree of support in the PLP is the unity | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
candidate and that is the person who should go forward | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
I think we have to have the person who is most likely to beat | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
You are not standing aside, under any circumstances? | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
The restaurant is still open, you know. | :22:44. | :22:45. | |
We're not going to do a deal here on your sofa, | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
So will there be an anyone but Corbyn candidate, | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
Our correspondent is on College Green. | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
Predictions are hard these days and we do not get them right! Is it a | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
case of just one candidate going forward eventually? I do, | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
eventually. I do not think one candidate will emerge this week. | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
Owen Smith might like one candidate after these hustings but I think | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
Angela Eagle wants a slightly longer time frame to see what support she | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
gets from constituency parties before they agree any deal. I think | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
both of them recognise it would be disastrous for two candidates to go | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
up against Jeremy Corbyn, apart from the risk of splitting the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
anti-corporate vote. Inevitably, they will take each other on, | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
criticise each other and there will be a lot of collateral damage to the | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
anti-corporate and wing of the vote. There is a recognition they will | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
have the do a deal. There are issues around, do they have a joint ticket? | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
And my understanding is nothing has been sorted out. Both gradually | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
feeling their way. The one thing that might change it is once we have | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
had these hustings and we know how Labour MPs have nominated and we | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
will get that in black and white on Wednesday evening, if one candidate | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
was to have many, many more nominations than the other, you | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
could be in a Theresa May, Andrea Leadsom situation whether one with | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
fewer decides to bull out. If they are very close, it could go on for | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
quite a bit yet. Reaction in the Jeremy Corbyn camp? | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
I think they are quite relaxed. It goes back to the Trident vote. That | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
has come as a god's gift to Jeremy Corbyn because he has said he is | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
going to make his stands on Trident, opposition to renewal, central to | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
his campaign. It reminds me of the last leadership contest when he did | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
the same with his opposition to the benefit changes which Andy Burnham | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
and others supported. And that was used to drive his grassroots | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
campaign. It got momentum going and widespread support. And I think they | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
think they can do exactly the same with the issue of nuclear weapons, | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
which Angela Eagle and Owen Smith have said they were back. | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
We come up for it to a long, hot Summer with this going on. | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
Who will you back? Owen Smith. Why? I want the leader of the Labour | :25:15. | :25:23. | |
Party and ultimately Prime Minister with real socialist values and a | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
plan to put them into action. I want somebody relentlessly focused on the | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
future and not interested in fighting former battles. And who | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
understands that to unite the party and to win a general election, you | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
need to draw on the best traditions from the entire Labour Party, from | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
the left to the right. I think Owen Smith is by far the best candidate. | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
You think nobody at the moment could bring those sides together. Do you | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
accept that unity candidate as you describe but I want should go for it | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
and Angela Eagle should drop out as soon as possible? It would be | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
preferable to only have two candidates, Jeromy and one other. | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
For me, very preferable that is Owen Smith. He is best placed to win the | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
leadership election and I think he has ideas about the future of the | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
country and is capable of uniting a very divided nation. He is in favour | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
of Trident renewal. Yes, we have discussed this and I have known him | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
for quite a long time since I was first elected to Parliament. We both | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
passionate about multilateral disarmament. Not unilateral like | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
Jeremy. We not pacifists. Would we do want to see us moving to a | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
situation where we take steps to step down the ladder of nuclear | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
weapons. Most of their colleagues -- do you think your colleagues will | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
have mostly made up their minds before the hustings? I think some | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
colleagues have some opinions about it and others probably will go into | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
that hustings at one o'clock today and listen to what the candidates | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
have got to say. The key thing is that people feel very confident that | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
the candidate they have chosen is somebody who can unite the Labour | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
Party. That is a very difficult thing to do. Looking at the group of | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
people that have come together around Owen Smith, he is in a very | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
strong position to do that. He has managed to attract many of the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
younger, new MPs, relentlessly focused on the challenges we have | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
got now, whether it is an ageing population, child poverty, clean | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
energy jobs and how Britain redefines itself after Brexit with | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
the rest of the world. That is the thing is Owen is talking about and | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
why he has attracted people from the left to the right. Would you -- you | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
resigned from the Shadow Cabinet saying Jeremy Corbyn could not form | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
a team, how would Owen Smith bring the Jeremy Corbyn side of the party | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
into his side? It is about culture as much as anything. I have no Owen | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
well about five years now and he has always been somebody who has worked | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
with every bit of the party, who has respect for different parts of the | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
party and he is a socialist at heart but not an idealist, a realist. He | :28:16. | :28:22. | |
believes in things like renationalisation of the railways | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
which is one of the most popular policies of Jeromy, he believes | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
austerity was a mistake as an economic programme and morally | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
unsustainable. He says the policies of Jeremy Corbyn, they are not | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
wrong, it is just the messenger? It is not good Saint you want austerity | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
and you want renationalisation of the railways, you need an idea of | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
that and I think Owen is that person. Jeremy Corbyn has a very | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
good chance of winning again, what happens then is the mark the job of | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
everybody trying to save the Labour Party at the moment is to have a | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
candidate who can unite the party. It is a real possibility he can win | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
again, it is a real proposition, he cannot fill a front bench team | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
completely now, would you serve under Jeremy Corbyn if he wins | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
again? I resigned from Jeremy Corbyn's bench because I left a | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
private meeting with him attended by John McDonnell and it became very | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
clear that not only was the current leadership not able to unite the | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
party, but not willing either. That in my view is completely | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
unsustainable, I cannot defend and support it and I cannot see any way | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
I would serve on his frontbench again. So the party would have to | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
split at that point? I could sit and wildly speculate about the end of | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
the Labour Party but we cannot allow that to happen. Not least because | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
for most of my constituents in Wigan and around the country, that would | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
leave them with no forceful voice in British politics and we cannot allow | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
that to happen. France Maude, your former colleague, was on the | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
programme and he voiced a beer that many Tory MPs feel that without a | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
working opposition, it is bad news for the Serbian government, however | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
much it may seem like it is a wonderful thing to have an | :30:10. | :30:10. | |
opposition not functioning. Francis was absolutely right. Our | :30:11. | :30:23. | |
unwritten constitution depends on an effective opposition holding the | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
government to account in the House of Commons. The House of Commons is | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
where it has to be done. Lisa did a very good job when she was in the | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
Shadow Cabinet and all of us were sad to see her go. But the fact is I | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
do not think the Labour Party can pull it together and I am very | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
worried about the next few months because I think there will be a | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
split in the Labour Party. It may lead to the formation of something | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
stronger and better, but at the moment, although I am glad to say it | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
is one of the few decisions in the last few weeks where I do not have | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
to do anything, I want to see a proper labour opposition led by a | :31:01. | :31:02. | |
proper labour opposition led by a good sound leader. | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
Now, staying with Labour, from today until Wednesday, | :31:07. | :31:07. | |
members of the public can pay ?25 to become a registered | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
supporter of the party, giving them the chance to vote | :31:11. | :31:12. | |
either for Jeremy Corbyn or a challenger to become leader. | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
More than 100,000 new members who've joined since the EU referendum | :31:16. | :31:17. | |
won't get a say, thanks to rules agreed by the ruling | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
National Executive Committee last week. | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
But some in the party aren't happy, including Mr Corbyn. | :31:26. | :31:27. | |
Here he is taking a walk in the park with our Adam, | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
There is going to be some quite intense discussions over the next | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
few days and I hope our party officials and national executive | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
will see sense on this and recognise that those people who have freely | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
given their time and their money to join the Labour Party should be | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
welcomed in and given the opportunity to take part | :31:47. | :31:48. | |
in this crucial debate, whichever way they decide to vote. | :31:49. | :31:50. | |
Well, I'm hoping there will be an understanding that it is simply | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
not very fair to say to people who joined the party | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
in the in the last six months, sorry your participation is no | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
longer welcome because we are having a leadership contest. | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
So, with another meeting of the National Executive | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
Committee due tomorrow, could the new membership | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
rules, which some think will favour Mr Corbyn's | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
And could it all get even more confusing? | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Well, we're joined now by Christine Shawcroft, | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
Welcome back. Do you think there should be another routers? It is not | :32:25. | :32:38. | |
really the rules, it was a decision made on the timetable. Should be | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
overturned? I do not know if we can overturn it. I will be raising it | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
tomorrow because we have had so many complaints, whether we can overturn | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
that I am not sure. The ?25 and the six months together, one of them on | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
their own might not have been so bad. But it is really people joined | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
on the promise on the website that they would have about in any | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
leadership election. If you overturn it, you will be accused of a stitch | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
up again if you reopen it to maybe people who have not been in the | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
Labour Party long enough and who have not been vetted properly. No | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
one knows the people who have joined since January. It is not in the last | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
few weeks, it is people since January who will not be able to | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
vote, no one knows how those people will vote. It is a simple question | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
of democracy. What do you say about the ?25? It is a lot more than ?3 | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
which is what people had to enter to vote in the leadership contest. It | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
looks like you will be accused of a stitch up by trying to restrict the | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
rules. It is very steep but my understanding is part of the reason | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
the NEC reached that conclusion is because we had so many problems when | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
we changed the system last time. One of Nicholas's colleagues, Tim | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
Loughton, he signed up to join the Labour Party to vote for Jeremy | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
Corbyn. My understanding is it was designed to try and stop that. On | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
the general point about six months and the fee, being a member of a | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
political party is a long-term commitment and you have to stick | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
with it, debate and listen as well say your piece and compromise. That | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
is the reason that parties like Labour and the Conservatives have | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
lasted for such a long time. Do you think people who joined the first | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
time round do not hold those sorts of values? No, we have always had a | :34:40. | :34:47. | |
freeze date. When I was selected as an MP, the NEC decided that people | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
had to be a member of the party for a year. It seems to me it is not | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
unreasonable to say that you have to have been in the party for a while | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
and to have taken part in party activity before you get a chance to | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
vote for whoever is our leader. That is not what it says on the website | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
unfortunately. But there needs to be a cut-off point? I was a supporter | :35:11. | :35:19. | |
of a cut-off date. The original recommendation was for ?12 of | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
registered supporters. Somebody suggested ?10, but it was moved by a | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
member of the GMB that it should be ?25. When people have paid ?4 in the | :35:28. | :35:38. | |
middle of January and then they are being asked for another 25... A lot | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
of members have knocked on doors and delivered leaflets in the rain and | :35:47. | :35:48. | |
supported the party through thick and thin when they were pretty | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
depressed about the director of the Labour Party and for those members | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
who have stuck with it and worked hard and kept going and shown | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
loyalty to the party, it is not unreasonable to say that you have to | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
have been in the party for six months before you can vote. Does not | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
show that the divide in labour cannot even be bridged, you are even | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
arguing over these rules? We always argue over the rules. That does not | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
mean there is a huge breach in the labour loyalty. There is. The other | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
we have debates and we all come together at the end of the day. You | :36:30. | :36:37. | |
say that but John McDonnell has said he is convinced the Labour | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
leadership contest will be amicable. And was a brick not thrown through | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
Angela Eagle's office with John McDonnell accusing the useless | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
plotters who failed to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn. A constituency | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
meeting had to be stopped because of violence. There have been no threats | :37:00. | :37:08. | |
or problems at all in my constituency. Why was immediately | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
put out that they had to be stopped? It was nothing to do with people in | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
the Labour Party anyway and it was exaggerated. This is coming from | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
members of the Labour Party who are saying it. The person who was | :37:22. | :37:29. | |
trolling one member was the neo-Nazis professional troll. But | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
this has happened in the time that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell had | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
been in charge. As a being saturated? I do not think it has. We | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
met in my party a couple of weeks ago and we had to have the police | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
present because of the number of threats and abuse that had been | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
flying around not destiny, but to the chair of my party and other | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
members. Absolutely there are threats from the far right and I | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
have had those since I was elected and many of my colleagues as well. | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
But what is recent is the threats from the left as well and Jeremy | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
Beadle is right to go out and called for a calm and comradely debate, but | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
let's not seek to pretend it is not happening, it is and it is | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
troubling. Not just because nobody should have to live in fear of | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
threats and intimidation and violence, but the effect it has is | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
so many MPs, Labour MPs, particularly women, feel they do not | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
want to get out and engage in public life and say the things they want to | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
say. We cannot allow people to be silent. We will talk more about | :38:36. | :38:37. | |
Politicians from different parties have been attending a conference | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
in London today called 'Reclaim the Internet'. | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
It claims that political debate online has seen rising levels | :38:43. | :38:44. | |
Well, in today's Soapbox, the journalist and Conservative peer | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
Matt Ridley gives us his take on how the internet is shaping the way | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
The world of social media has given us exciting ways | :38:54. | :39:07. | |
of communicating with politicians, our idols, and of delving | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
But it's also fuelling abuse and driving us apart. | :39:10. | :39:17. | |
Schisms of hatred seem to be fracturing the political landscape | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
The police versus the black community in America, | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
Sunni versus Shia, Trump V Hillary, Brexiteers V the Remainers - | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
all are glaring at each other across cyber chasms | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
Social media is polarising our discourse more | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
It amplifies the personal and the extreme, hots up the echo | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
Communications technologies can decide the political temperature. | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
After decades in which they aided moderate discourse outside | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
autocracies, now they're inflaming it. | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
Opinions boil down to a single shout. | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
Not all of this is spontaneous, some of this is the result of deliberate, | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
coordinated and well funded action, creating armies of online trolls. | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
Critics are abused, threatened and misrepresented to silence them. | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
After the shootings in Dallas, terror attacks across the globe, | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
the murder of Joe Cox, and even brutal fear tactics | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
within the Labour Party, we may be entering a more dangerous age. | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
We need to find a way to tame Twitter, fence in Facebook, | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
insist on net neutrality and revive moderation. | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
To do so while respecting free speech and without handing | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
government the power to propagandise and censor, will not be easy. | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
But it must be attempted before the mutual shouting gets worse. | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
What is the evidence that politics has become more polarised as a | :40:56. | :41:07. | |
result of a contributing factor from things like twitter? It is pretty | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
anecdotal so far, but we do have evidence from the past from the way | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
road radio inflamed people in the 1930s, the way radio made the Rwanda | :41:18. | :41:25. | |
crisis worse. We have pretty good evidence, sector by sector in a | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
country that communications technology can have an influence. It | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
did in Nancy Germany and in Rwanda and radio was important because it | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
was controlled by the state. With Twitter it is free, everyone can | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
have a go. That is right, but in the early days of technology it gets | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
violent and extreme and then it gets tamed and calmed down. Television | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
became a centralising force for the latter half of the 20th century and | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
the same may happen to social media. We may be over worrying. Blogs were | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
pretty nasty ten years ago, now nobody minds about them. Perhaps it | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
may tame itself. But I am worried at the moment and it may not be | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
specifically Twitter or Facebook, but the way people seem to be so | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
much more easily polarised on issues and they get very cross very | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
quickly. Is it polarising on a political front or is it personal | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
abuse? If you look back at Margaret Thatcher and Michael Foot, that was | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
polarised politics, ideological and, perhaps what you are talking about | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
is more personal anger and abuse, less to do with politics in that | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
sense. People quite close to each other on the political spectrum can | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
flare-up quite badly on Twitter and social media. Do you agree with | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
that? Have you had any examples? I am a twitter user. I agree entirely | :42:56. | :43:04. | |
with what Matt says. It is the equivalent of the introduction of | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
the breach leg rifle which blew military operations apart and | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
enabled a supreme dominance. I think it is a very dangerous | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
manifestation. We are also worried about how angry people get with each | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
other. It is almost like road rage, and immediate reaction to someone | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
you do not agree with. If anyone is remotely rude to me, which they are | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
the whole time, I delete it. Or you block it? I block it and if you | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
allow the debate to go on it gets more aggressive. I think I can tell | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
when your tongue is in your cheek, but other people might not. But I am | :43:45. | :43:53. | |
not rude offensively. I am not trying to pick a fight with them. I | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
had a fight with Boris on twitter and he got very angry. That is | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
picking a fight. But on a serious point, what can actually be done? I | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
know anecdotally female MPs, particularly on the Labour side, but | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
I am sure it is happening across the board, they are suffering with awful | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
abuse, death threats of the time and it is mainly on twitter. Twitter is | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
a bit different to other forms of social media. Most of my | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
constituents are on Facebook and the debate on Facebook is more about | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
people's lives and families and it is much kinder and with a sense of | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
fun. Twitter attracts many more people, including politicians, who | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
are obsessives, and we get into that world and cannot stop it. There is a | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
problem, what can you do to tackle it? You say it could happen | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
organically. Is there anything else we can do? When I wrote this last | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
week, lots of people got very cross with me on Twitter because they | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
thought I was suggesting censorship because I said we must tame Twitter. | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
What I mean is not government intervention, but social change, | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
cultural change. Fining people? Government might have a role to play | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
in nudging people to being nicer on twitter. I do not know how they will | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
do that. We used to have something called the behavioural team and it | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
was privatised and maybe we can get it back on this case. | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
We could change the debate on Twitter with people in positions | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
like my making sure when we have debates on Twitter, we behave in a | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
way as we would in the real world. You often see people genuinely nice, | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
decent and normal people who would never dream of using the language | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
they do on Twitter. The distance helps. We could set an example. A | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
debate became furious within seconds, do you remember that? Thank | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
you very much. Now, the appointment of | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary raised some eyebrows | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
in the chancelleries of Europe, not least because he's said some | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
rather disobliging things about European politicians | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
in the past, and they've sometimes Well, Mr Johnson seemed to be trying | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
to put all that behind him today as he made his debut | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
on the international stage. Here he is arriving at a meeting | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
of EU foreign ministers in Brussels. Very, very good to be | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
here for my first overseas trip and the message I'll be taking | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
to our friends in the council is that we have to give effect | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
to the will of the people and leave the European Union, | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
but that in no sense means abandoning our leading role | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
in European cooperation I had a very good conversation | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
to that effect last night with high representative Mogherini | :46:51. | :47:01. | |
and she agreed very much that that was a role Britain should | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
continue to play. Boris Johnson speaking | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
earlier today in Brussels. So, can a man who has in the past | :47:09. | :47:10. | |
managed to offend everyone from Barack Obama to Hillary Clinton | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
to the President of Turkey really get on in a top job that requires | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
a sensitive diplomatic touch? Well, we're joined now | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
by the Spectator He's written a book called the Wit | :47:20. | :47:20. | |
and Wisdom of Boris Johnson. Can he? I think he can. You can see | :47:21. | :47:31. | |
in that clip, he is already trying to be serious. In the day's | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
Telegraph, he has stopped his column and he has paid back half ?1 million | :47:35. | :47:42. | |
in an advance for a biography of Shakespeare so is making a big | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
effort to be serious. It is going to be really hard work for him, it is | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
not his natural domain, you have conceded that. How long before that. | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
Art? There are two forces in the mind of Boris. One is to use. He | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
sees a joke and he is logging to amuse. The other force is to be | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
incredibly ambitious. As a little boy, he said he wanted to be world | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
King. This is his step to becoming world King. Is that the right person | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
to be on the diplomatic stage after an attempted coup in Turkey? I have | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
had my differences with Boris and I agree entirely, he will be a very | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
good Foreign Secretary. Because he is a very clever man. Secondly, we | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
need people who can get on with people in politics. He is very | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
affable, Boris. We are going to open a new world. And we need people like | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
that who are recognisable, understandable and company and | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
support. I will make a forecast that he would be an outstanding Foreign | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
Secretary. What did you mean when you said, Mr Johnson was seriously | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
adrift in the argument when he blames Barack Obama of the cup -- of | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
hypocrisy for telling British voters to remain in the EU and he | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
questioned his part union ancestry, and you said he was wrong and | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
everything. This was during a referendum campaign -- Kenyan. You | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
said stupid things about President Obama and my grandfather. How will | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
he become a good Foreign Secretary? He is reverting to type. He will now | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
be bringing all those... I did have a big fight with him. But he will be | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
an outstanding Foreign Secretary. Is it all right to say stupid and | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
offensive things about our allies. And remember the comparison he made | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
with EU constitutions that they would carrying on God expansionism | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
of Adolf Hitler. Can people get over that? Boris makes joke, some of | :49:54. | :50:04. | |
which are deeply offensive, the part Kenyan ancestry is bordering on | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
racism and disgraceful for any politician. I am not concerned | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
whether he has offended many people, he clearly has, but whether he is | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
capable of telling the truth. And listening to what he said in the | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
referendum campaign. Riding around with that figure on that bus. He has | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
written things that he must know if he is very clever, that is not true. | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
Being a buffoon is one thing but a Foreign Secretary that is | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
fundamentally dishonest, this country is in real trouble. What | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
about those claims that people including Boris Johnson distanced | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
themselves from? The thing about Boris is that for 20 years, he was | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
on extremely successful journalist and columnist and you have to | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
attract leaders and so he entertains. We are talking about the | :50:58. | :51:08. | |
truth. No, the supposed gaffes ways to entertain leaders. He has to make | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
the transition to a serious Foreign Secretary and he can leave | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
journalism behind. People will be offended and it was very | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
uncharacteristic, the comment Barack Obama coming he is not malicious, | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
that was wrong. Will he be truthful about what he | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
says? The claims about the Turkish people coming to the EU, 75 million | :51:30. | :51:37. | |
joining now, the ?350 million a week is sent to Brussels, and that amount | :51:38. | :51:45. | |
will be spent on the NHS, is that true? It was like the build-up to a | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
general election when people sex up what is going to happen and the | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
manifestos do not necessarily take place. He did not just bring up that | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
figure of the ?350 million, it was put out by the Brexit campaign. But | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
he is the Foreign Secretary. We will see, I think we will be going | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
through transition Boris. He will still be amusing, you cannot help | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
that. But he will say goodbye to the supposedly gaffes. How will the | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
Russians greet him? He described Putin is a character from Harry | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
Potter and a manipulative tyrant. You could produce endless examples. | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
I can! They recent things. You could produce endless examples but | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
business is business, he is now the Foreign Secretary, he would behave | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
like a Foreign Secretary and he will bring charisma and excitement and | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
more than anything else, Britain needs a recognisable figure as | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
Foreign Secretary. What if that recognisable figure is a disaster? | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
You do not know that. You seem to be arguing he will be fantastic on the | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
basis of no evidence. The evidence points to the country. I hope for | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
the sake of Britain that he does get serious and discover the truth for | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
the first time in his life and stop needlessly offended our allies. | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
Nobody is denying his abilities, he is a very clever and brilliant man. | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
But I make this forecast to you that he will be a fantastic Foreign | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
Secretary. We will get you both back on. Thank you very much. | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
Now, we're saying goodbye to Lisa Nandy at this point | :53:26. | :53:27. | |
in the programme because she's got to dash off to the hustings | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
between the two candidates who want to challenge Jeremy Corbyn | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
Thanks for being with us, Lisa, and have fun. | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
Now, politics continues to surprise everyone, | :53:37. | :53:37. | |
In a moment, we'll talk to a journalist who will be hoping | :53:38. | :53:50. | |
as she covers all the big developments this week. | :53:51. | :53:52. | |
But first, let's take a look at some of the big events in the diary. | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
Tomorrow, US State Secretary John Kerry arrives in London on his first | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
Also, on Tuesday, Prime Minister May holds her first Cabinet meeting, | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
with plenty of new faces and some rather old ones too. | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
Another first for Theresa May on Wedneday - PMQs against JC. | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
Live on the Daily Politics, of course! | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
Wednesday also sees the close of nominations for challengers | :54:14. | :54:15. | |
to the Labour leadership and is also the last day for non-members to sign | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
The Prime Minister will travel to Berlin for a "working dinner" | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
The following day, she will meet President Hollande in Paris. | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
And Parliament doesn't even make it to the end of the week, | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
as MPs and peers finish up on Thursday. | :54:34. | :54:35. | |
They'll all be back at work on 5th September. | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
Isabel Hardman, from the Spectator... | :54:40. | :54:48. | |
The camera supporters had been sent to the backbenches, will that be a | :54:49. | :55:00. | |
problem for Theresa May? I was surprised given she had a reputation | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
for being cautious that she had such a brutal clear out of the goblet | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
frontbench and there are threats from Cameron supporters and those | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
around George Osborne that there will be revenge for this and she has | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
a small majority and it has not changed and when you have a | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
reshuffle, it you upset people who have lost their job or want a job. | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
Perhaps she's not intending to get through controversial legislation | :55:28. | :55:30. | |
during the Premiership, she will struggle to do that practically. | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
What about Scotland? The talks with Nicola Sturgeon and this idea of, I | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
am going to give Scotland a say, says Theresa May. What does that | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
mean in practice? Nicola Sturgeon does not have a veto on the decision | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
to have left the EU although she would like Scotland to stay as part | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
of it. Theresa May's UK wide approach as she calls it has | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
concerned people that Scotland's does have a veto that would cause | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
resentment and upset Tory Eurosceptics, which the reason may | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
need to worry about. Downing Street have denied this is a veto -- | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
Theresa May. It depends on the talks with the devolved administrations | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
and how well her ministers for six mat like David Davis get on with the | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
officials from the devolved administrations. What about Labour, | :56:28. | :56:38. | |
will Angela Eagle drop out? She seems to be bleeding support to Owen | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
Smith for MPs minded to support somebody like Angela Eagle but they | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
want to dislodge Jeremy Corbyn and think that is the most important | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
thing. If Owen Smith can win amongst the Labour membership and is more | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
appealing than Angela Eagle, even though she has done the brave thing | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
and went and did the challenge first and is also a women -- a woman which | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
a lot of female MPs want a female leader at some point this century, | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
you may feel they have two abandon her to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
which is the most important problem. Plenty to be chasing over the | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
Summer! Have a good break if you get one! | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
The question was: Which new playground craze did our Adam | :57:25. | :57:26. | |
introduce to to Jeremy Corbyn on the Sunday Politics? | :57:27. | :57:28. | |
It has to be Pokemon Go. No flies on year! | :57:29. | :57:41. | |
Let's have a look and see if you're right. | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
So you are holding up the Pokemon and you have to move aside. | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
Seamus is blocking the Pokemon, no, the Pokemon is OK. | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
So there's Crabby, he's jumping up and down. | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
And then what you do is you use this ball and you throw it at them to try | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
Well, my work this morning has not been in vain. | :58:01. | :58:17. | |
We might be the judge of that! How did you know that? I have a teenage | :58:18. | :58:29. | |
son. Yes. What does he think of it? I saw in the papers it was becoming | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
a craze so I assumed your man would not be behind the curve. Indeed, and | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
now the is Jeremy Corbyn. Well done, you got the answer right. -- and now | :58:41. | :58:42. | |
the is. The One O'clock News is starting | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
tomorrow with all the big | :58:50. | :58:54. |