19/07/2016 Daily Politics


19/07/2016

Jo Coburn is joined by Ken Clarke to discuss the vote to renew Trident, with former shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn, as well as Britain's post-Brexit economy.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 19/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:35.:00:36.

Theresa May holds her first Cabinet meeting as Prime Minister and says

:00:37.:00:39.

want social justice to be the primary focus of her leadership.

:00:40.:00:46.

After MPs handed Theresa May an overwhelming victory last night

:00:47.:00:48.

over Trident renewal, the Prime Minister's been

:00:49.:00:51.

meeting her top team for the first Cabinet meeting since she took

:00:52.:00:54.

Jeremy Corbyn was on the losing side of the argument in yesterday's

:00:55.:01:01.

debate and Labour MPs lined up to criticise his stance on Trident.

:01:02.:01:04.

However, a new poll shows his support is as strong as ever,

:01:05.:01:09.

so are his leadership challengers doomed to fail?

:01:10.:01:13.

Remainers said it would damage our long-term prospects.

:01:14.:01:18.

Leavers said it would provide a boost to our fortunes.

:01:19.:01:20.

We examine the impact that Brexit will have on the health

:01:21.:01:23.

And Donald Trump has his moment in the sun

:01:24.:01:34.

as he hosts the Republican convention in Cleveland.

:01:35.:01:36.

But can he reach out beyond his core supporters?

:01:37.:01:45.

With us for the whole of the programme today is the former

:01:46.:01:50.

Chancellor of the Exchequer Ken Clarke.

:01:51.:01:54.

He recently said that Theresa May was a "bloody difficult woman"

:01:55.:01:57.

and that Michael Gove would start three wars at once.

:01:58.:01:59.

We would like to encourage that level of candour throughout

:02:00.:02:02.

The House of Commons has overwhelmingly backed

:02:03.:02:08.

the renewal of the UK's Trident nuclear weapons system.

:02:09.:02:11.

The vote approves the manufacture of four replacement submarines

:02:12.:02:13.

at a current estimated cost of ?31 billion.

:02:14.:02:19.

The vote came after Theresa May, in her first Commons speech

:02:20.:02:22.

as Prime Minister, confirmed she would be prepared to authorise

:02:23.:02:25.

The vote also highlighted deep splits within the Labour Party

:02:26.:02:30.

with more than half of its MPs going against the leader

:02:31.:02:33.

Mr Speaker, we have waited long enough.

:02:34.:02:44.

It is time to get on with building the next generation

:02:45.:02:51.

It is time to take this essential decision to deter the most extreme

:02:52.:02:54.

threats to our society, and preserve our way of life

:02:55.:02:57.

Our nuclear weapons are driving proliferation, not the opposite.

:02:58.:03:01.

Sadly she, and some members of the Labour Party, seem

:03:02.:03:05.

to be the first to defend the country's enemies,

:03:06.:03:08.

and the last to actually accept the capabilities...

:03:09.:03:12.

Is she personally prepared to authorise a nuclear

:03:13.:03:17.

strike that could kill 100,000 innocent men,

:03:18.:03:18.

And I have to say to the honourable gentleman, the whole point

:03:19.:03:26.

of a deterrent is that our enemies need to know that we would be

:03:27.:03:29.

We on these benches, despite our differences on some

:03:30.:03:34.

issues, have always argued for the aim of

:03:35.:03:36.

We might differ on how it's going to be achieved,

:03:37.:03:42.

but we are united in our commitment to that end.

:03:43.:03:45.

I do not believe the threat of mass murder is a legitimate

:03:46.:03:49.

way to go about dealing with international relations.

:03:50.:03:52.

For the official opposition to have a free vote on a matter

:03:53.:03:57.

of such strategic national importance is a terrible indictment

:03:58.:04:01.

of how far this once great party has fallen.

:04:02.:04:07.

But what Labour's current front bench are doing is not principled.

:04:08.:04:10.

It shows contempt for the public, for party members, and often,

:04:11.:04:15.

The possession of the nuclear deterrent may be unpleasant,

:04:16.:04:21.

but it's an unpleasant necessity, the purpose of which lies not in it

:04:22.:04:27.

ever being fired, but in its nature as the ultimate insurance policy

:04:28.:04:31.

against unpredictable future existential threats.

:04:32.:04:36.

It is obscene that the priority of this government and sadly too

:04:37.:04:39.

many people on the Labour benches, at a time of Tory austerity

:04:40.:04:43.

and economic uncertainty following the EU referendum,

:04:44.:04:49.

is to spend billions of pounds on outdated nuclear weapons

:04:50.:04:51.

but we do not want, do not need and could never use.

:04:52.:05:01.

Well to discuss the vote we've been joined by the former

:05:02.:05:04.

Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn.

:05:05.:05:07.

Welcome. Before I come to you, it was a trick, there was no need for a

:05:08.:05:17.

vote at this time, it was only really done to expose divisions in

:05:18.:05:23.

Hilary Benn's party? I do not know why David originally chose this

:05:24.:05:27.

timing but there is no need for anybody to expose divisions in the

:05:28.:05:31.

Labour Party now, they are there for all to see and do the interests of

:05:32.:05:36.

clarity, it has probably helped the Labour Party to get over this. It

:05:37.:05:42.

was an obstacle in their path. They knew they would have a painful day

:05:43.:05:47.

and at least we know where the nation's defences are likely to be

:05:48.:05:49.

for the next years, even though we do not have much idea what else will

:05:50.:05:56.

happen to the country in the outside world. Labour Party led by Jeremy

:05:57.:06:03.

Corbyn who has always been and continues to be against Trident and

:06:04.:06:07.

its renewal. The fact he cannot carry the party with him, and there

:06:08.:06:12.

was a free vote on what one colleague called key strategic

:06:13.:06:18.

issue. That was in the end a pragmatic decision the Shadow

:06:19.:06:23.

Cabinet took. Jeremy's position is well-known, he has always been

:06:24.:06:26.

opposed to the use of nuclear weapons and I respect his view, I

:06:27.:06:30.

fundamentally disagree with it and more to the point, Labour Party

:06:31.:06:35.

policy for a long time has been to support the maintenance of the

:06:36.:06:38.

nuclear deterrent and we were elected on that commitment and the

:06:39.:06:42.

majority of Labour MPs who cast a vote voted to protect the nation's

:06:43.:06:47.

security and support the building of the new submarines. What does it say

:06:48.:06:50.

about the state of the Labour Party? There was a free vote and the leader

:06:51.:06:56.

is against the policy the party is for, it is chaos. It is not

:06:57.:07:01.

sustainable. I will be the first to accept that. We need new leadership

:07:02.:07:06.

and we will have a leadership contest because we cannot carry on

:07:07.:07:11.

with the situation in which the leader of the party and also the

:07:12.:07:14.

leader of the Parliamentary party cannot command the confidence of a

:07:15.:07:18.

majority of his members of Parliament. Jeremy, he has a mandate

:07:19.:07:23.

I am reminded, but it includes to lead the party in parliament which

:07:24.:07:36.

he is pay not able to do any more and that is why at this late stage,

:07:37.:07:39.

the right thing would be for him to step down. We will have a contest

:07:40.:07:42.

and hopefully we will come back at the end of September with a new

:07:43.:07:44.

leader. What was the point of a policy review, Labour Party policy

:07:45.:07:47.

on Trident. It was agreed at the manifesto it would be in favour of

:07:48.:07:50.

renewal, when no one will change their mind on such a key issue?

:07:51.:07:57.

Jeremy Corbyn voting against the renewal. The policy review has not

:07:58.:08:02.

been completed, it has been delayed. It has been delayed and I don't know

:08:03.:08:05.

what is in it because it has not been published. The long-standing

:08:06.:08:12.

policy of the Labour Party since we abandoned unilateralism in the 80s

:08:13.:08:16.

has been to support the nuclear deterrent and it is supported by the

:08:17.:08:22.

major unions, because their members helped to build the submarines and

:08:23.:08:26.

it is important we maintain that capacity to protect ourselves. Where

:08:27.:08:30.

we agree, and I think Ken Clarke would agree, we want a world with no

:08:31.:08:34.

nuclear weapons but the debate is how you get there and Britain giving

:08:35.:08:41.

its deterrent up with not persuade other nuclear states in the world to

:08:42.:08:45.

do so. There are new threats. Nobody knows what they will be in the years

:08:46.:08:50.

ahead and I would not feel safe in a world where everyone had given up

:08:51.:08:53.

nuclear weapons apart from North Korea. Jeremy Corbyn has support, in

:08:54.:08:59.

his view, against renewing Trident from a large number of Labour

:09:00.:09:04.

supporters and one reason is cited is the costs, which is fast. 31

:09:05.:09:10.

billion is the government figure that does not include according to

:09:11.:09:15.

Caroline Lucas for the Green Party, the costs of maintaining submarines,

:09:16.:09:19.

something like ?200 billion. It is not something that can be just

:09:20.:09:24.

batted away. You have to face up to it is a considerable cost. Jeremy

:09:25.:09:28.

Peace against nuclear weapons being held by this country in principle.

:09:29.:09:32.

He came into Parliament during the brief time the Labour Party was

:09:33.:09:38.

unilateralists. Every government from Clement Attlee on Buzz has

:09:39.:09:41.

favoured the policy we voted for yesterday. -- on the policy. It is a

:09:42.:09:47.

dangerous world and not getting safer. By the time we get the new

:09:48.:09:54.

submarines, nobody knows how far nuclear weapons may have

:09:55.:09:58.

proliferated over the next 30 years. It is a large sum of money and the

:09:59.:10:03.

overwhelming majority of people in the House of Commons and I think the

:10:04.:10:07.

public accept it is a cost we have to undertake in order to maintain

:10:08.:10:12.

security. What about the commitment to multilateral disarmament? Your

:10:13.:10:16.

colleagues said on the face of this legislation that was not there and

:10:17.:10:20.

without that there would be no attempt at trying to work towards

:10:21.:10:25.

multilateral disarmament? Is that still important? It is important and

:10:26.:10:30.

we have seen the benefit of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and

:10:31.:10:33.

how it was used by the world to get Iran to give up nuclear ambition.

:10:34.:10:39.

That agreement is important. During the last Labour government we

:10:40.:10:42.

reduced the number of warheads, a contribution be made. You would need

:10:43.:10:46.

local powers to do that. In particular it is those who are not

:10:47.:10:52.

signatories that the problem and I highlight North Korea because I do

:10:53.:10:58.

not think they are to negotiation. The costs, those who raised costs

:10:59.:11:04.

are opposed to a nuclear deterrent in principle. If you go back to

:11:05.:11:09.

Clement Attlee's speeches in the 1940s, he said, I know the defence

:11:10.:11:13.

of the nation is a cost and it is an expense but it is one we should bear

:11:14.:11:18.

because it is important, given the experience particularly the country

:11:19.:11:21.

had just come out of, that we make sure we are defended. We know it's

:11:22.:11:28.

destructive potential. It is to protect Britain from being the

:11:29.:11:32.

subject of an attack. That is the reason we have it and it protects us

:11:33.:11:35.

every day with those submarines patrolling around the world. Let's

:11:36.:11:40.

talk more about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. The BBC understands he

:11:41.:11:45.

is likely to face a single challenger. The two current

:11:46.:11:50.

challengers, Angela Eagle and Owen Smith have apparently reached a

:11:51.:11:51.

common understanding However, a new poll in today's Times

:11:52.:11:52.

shows that support for Mr Corbyn Our political correspondent

:11:53.:11:59.

Iain Watson is outside Labour headquarters, where the party's

:12:00.:12:02.

National Executive Committee is meeting to discuss Labour's

:12:03.:12:04.

leadership election rules. Have please finally been decided?

:12:05.:12:18.

Yes I think they have. The NEC meeting is taking place in this

:12:19.:12:21.

building and some are rushing in. It has just got under way. A week is a

:12:22.:12:29.

long time in politics. Last week, Jeremy Corbyn was trying to fight

:12:30.:12:33.

for the right to be automatically on the ballot and as soon as he won the

:12:34.:12:38.

fight he came out here to talk to the media and celebrate and to go to

:12:39.:12:44.

a supporters' rally but inside two crucial decisions were made, first

:12:45.:12:48.

to increase the fee registered supporters would have to pay from ?3

:12:49.:12:56.

up to ?25. Many of them voted for Jeremy Corbyn last year, 100,000 of

:12:57.:13:00.

them, and ?25 would make it more difficult to do so and this year

:13:01.:13:04.

existing members would have to be party members for over six months to

:13:05.:13:08.

get a vote and Jeremy Corbyn was not pleased about that, seeing it as

:13:09.:13:14.

anti-democratic. Having spoken to NEC members, a senior member said

:13:15.:13:21.

this matter is settled. They said constitutionally they cannot reopen

:13:22.:13:25.

this for another three months, after the contest would take place and so

:13:26.:13:29.

it looks like Jeremy Corbyn will not overturn the crucial decisions by

:13:30.:13:34.

the NEC. As we speak there is a High Court challenge by a Labour funding

:13:35.:13:41.

person who wants to take Jeremy Corbyn off the ballot. The first

:13:42.:13:45.

stage of the legal challenges held today and it will be held in for one

:13:46.:13:50.

week from now. It is still not clear if Jeremy Corbyn has to go through

:13:51.:13:56.

the additional hoop of seeking MPs' support to get on the ballot, that

:13:57.:14:00.

will be down to the courts rather than the NEC. The wrangling

:14:01.:14:04.

continues. I did not realise that would go through the courts and

:14:05.:14:08.

could still threaten Jeremy Corbyn being on the ballot paper. If you

:14:09.:14:13.

look at the Labour Party membership and supporters, it looks like his

:14:14.:14:16.

support is growing according to the latest poll. That is right. A poll

:14:17.:14:23.

in the Times newspaper will come a shock reading for potential

:14:24.:14:30.

challengers. They are trying to decide among themselves who should

:14:31.:14:34.

be the sole challenger. To sort this out either today or at the latest by

:14:35.:14:39.

tomorrow, depending on who seems to garner most support among MPs but

:14:40.:14:45.

whoever wins according to this poll will be behind Jeremy Corbyn. A

:14:46.:14:51.

YouGov poll suggests 54% of supporters would give Jeremy Corbyn

:14:52.:14:55.

as first preference. Even if there were three candidates, Jeremy Corbyn

:14:56.:15:00.

would be put in top position by a majority of existing Labour Party

:15:01.:15:04.

members. There is a suggestion he is either 15, 20 points ahead of his

:15:05.:15:09.

nearest rival, depending on who the rival happens to be. Whoever it is,

:15:10.:15:15.

Owen Smith, Angela Eagle, they will have work cut out to convince Labour

:15:16.:15:20.

Party members. That they should be chucking out Jeremy Corbyn when the

:15:21.:15:23.

leadership result is announced in September.

:15:24.:15:29.

Iain Watson, thank you very much. Hilary Benn, are you shocked by that

:15:30.:15:35.

poll that puts Jeremy Corbyn more popular with Labour supporters? I

:15:36.:15:40.

think it's more popular than a poll that was taken three or four weeks

:15:41.:15:46.

ago. As I read it last night, it was something like 45% said they would

:15:47.:15:49.

definitely vote for him and then there were those who said they would

:15:50.:15:56.

probably. He could win again. It is possible. Labour Party members need

:15:57.:16:01.

to wake up the position we're in. Jeremy Corbyn has brought ideas and

:16:02.:16:05.

up debate... Do you really believe that? I think a lot of people voted

:16:06.:16:10.

for him because they wanted to shake things up a bit. That is what

:16:11.:16:15.

members have said to me. But I am eating party members who voted for

:16:16.:16:19.

him last time, who are now saying that was my motivation but it isn't

:16:20.:16:27.

really working -- I am meeting party members. There is going to be a very

:16:28.:16:31.

lively campaign and I hope the membership recognises we do need a

:16:32.:16:38.

new leader. Why Angela Eagle and not Owen Smith? Angela showed

:16:39.:16:43.

extraordinary courage in being the first person to say she will

:16:44.:16:47.

challenge Jeremy. Owen Smith has great qualities, too. There is a

:16:48.:16:52.

strong view in the Parliamentary Labour Party that we would like to

:16:53.:16:57.

see a single candidate challenging Germany. -- challenging Jeremy. We

:16:58.:17:04.

don't yet know how the nominations will pan out... But the person who

:17:05.:17:09.

garners the most support should be the one that goes forward, whether

:17:10.:17:14.

that's Owen Smith or Angela Eagle? I think that the cause of there being

:17:15.:17:20.

only one candidate but I won't pre-empt the decision. I'm backing

:17:21.:17:26.

Angela. You've resigned from the Shadow Cabinet. I was sacked, Jo.

:17:27.:17:32.

You must act, saying Jeremy Corbyn wasn't a credible leader. -- you

:17:33.:17:39.

were sacked. What makes you think Owen Smith or Angela Eagle are going

:17:40.:17:43.

to be able to unite what is now a completely fractured party? I think

:17:44.:17:47.

they have the capacity to do so. On the basis of what? On the basis we

:17:48.:17:54.

can't carry on. There is no evidence to show you can unite two sides of

:17:55.:17:58.

the Labour Party that fundamentally disagree with each other. We've been

:17:59.:18:02.

through difficult times like this before. I'm old enough to remember

:18:03.:18:07.

the late 70s and early 80s. It is a difficult time, it some pleasant, we

:18:08.:18:12.

are having party meetings suspended because of worries about

:18:13.:18:15.

intimidation and that's not a healthy state for any political

:18:16.:18:19.

party to be in. I'm sure even Ken would concede, we need a strong and

:18:20.:18:24.

effective opposition to the government because that's important

:18:25.:18:28.

for our democracy. I think that if we get a new leader, whether it is

:18:29.:18:35.

Angela or Owen, if they are able to beat Jeremy, I think we will begin

:18:36.:18:39.

the process of healing the party because I know they will reach out

:18:40.:18:44.

to others. I'm afraid Jeremy hasn't reached out and that's part of the

:18:45.:18:48.

reason the PLP has lost confidence in him. He says he would like to

:18:49.:18:53.

bridge the gulf. It does sound at the moment anybody but Jeremy

:18:54.:18:57.

Corbyn, it doesn't really matter to people like yourself what happens

:18:58.:19:00.

afterwards as long as you get rid of him. It matters enormously. I want

:19:01.:19:05.

us to be a credible party of government. We cannot just be a

:19:06.:19:10.

party of protest. I would say to Jeremy's supporters, none of his

:19:11.:19:13.

ideas are going to come to pass, none of them will be put into effect

:19:14.:19:18.

because the public don't see him as a credible Prime Minister. What

:19:19.:19:23.

other policies do you fundamentally disagree with and can't be part of

:19:24.:19:28.

the manifesto under Angela Eagle? I had quite well-known disagreements

:19:29.:19:31.

with Jeremy when it comes to foreign policy and those came to a head over

:19:32.:19:36.

Syria. I'll give you an example of two policies I support, the

:19:37.:19:41.

re-nationalisation of the railways. It's popular with the public.

:19:42.:19:46.

Secondly, more affordable housing. Jeremy wants to lift the borrowing

:19:47.:19:52.

cap put on local authorities to build more houses. The point is,

:19:53.:19:56.

this isn't a dispute actually about policy. It is about Jeremy's

:19:57.:20:03.

capacity to lead. You'll have seen the article Lilian Greenwood wrote

:20:04.:20:07.

yesterday where she set out from her point of view, she said it was to

:20:08.:20:11.

functional. That's why you've seen the vast majority of the Shadow

:20:12.:20:16.

Cabinet resign and that's why you've seen 80% of Labour MPs saying we

:20:17.:20:20.

don't have confidence in him. If Jeremy Corbyn wins, and there is a

:20:21.:20:25.

high probability he will, what then? We'll have to deal with the

:20:26.:20:30.

situation then. I hope that isn't the case... But you must have

:20:31.:20:33.

thought about it, because you made the mistake, not you personally but

:20:34.:20:38.

the party made that mistake of not thinking about it carefully first

:20:39.:20:41.

time around. Would you serve under Jeremy Corbyn? I don't think there's

:20:42.:20:47.

any likelihood he would invite me to serve. People have said honestly we

:20:48.:20:52.

don't have confidence in you in that eventuality, to then say they've

:20:53.:20:57.

changed their mind. So it would split the party? The party isn't

:20:58.:21:02.

going to split. If Jeremy Corbyn wins who's going to serve in the

:21:03.:21:06.

Shadow Cabinet? That is a problem for Jeremy to sort out. To be

:21:07.:21:10.

absolutely clear, the Labour Party isn't going to split because it

:21:11.:21:15.

belongs to all of us. Lots of people have devoted their life to the party

:21:16.:21:19.

and it belongs to all of us, not to any one individual or any part of

:21:20.:21:26.

the party. Ken Clarke, one thought on the disconnect between membership

:21:27.:21:29.

and the Parliamentary party. The Tory party have experienced that and

:21:30.:21:32.

under Iain Duncan Smith you could say there was that sort of

:21:33.:21:37.

disconnect. How does that happen? It is obviously dangerous.

:21:38.:21:41.

There are a reduced number of people who join political parties compared

:21:42.:21:47.

to 30 years ago. Our membership tends to be elderly and to the

:21:48.:21:53.

right. There's is young and to the left. They've got a lot more

:21:54.:21:59.

members. Hours are keen on being in government. I think our members

:22:00.:22:05.

would have voted for Theresa May. We had only one plausible prime

:22:06.:22:07.

ministerial candidate and I think she would have won easily. They

:22:08.:22:14.

aren't complaining that we shortened the process. This new young

:22:15.:22:18.

membership of the Labour Party, they are radical people of protest. It is

:22:19.:22:24.

a policy thing. I agree with your premise, I want to see the sensible

:22:25.:22:27.

members of the Labour Party emerged with a credible government in

:22:28.:22:35.

waiting. It improves the performance of the government in power once you

:22:36.:22:37.

are challenged properly which we aren't being at the moment.

:22:38.:22:42.

Last night on a train in Southern Germany,

:22:43.:22:44.

a 17-year-old Afghan refugee was shot dead by police

:22:45.:22:47.

after he attacked fellow passengers with an axe and knife.

:22:48.:22:50.

A hand-painted flag of the self-titled Islamic State has

:22:51.:22:52.

since been found in the teenager's room and the IS-linked Amaq news

:22:53.:22:55.

A hand-painted flag of the self-titled Islamic State has

:22:56.:23:02.

since been found in the teenager's room and the IS-linked Amaq news

:23:03.:23:05.

agency has claimed the teenager was an IS "fighter".

:23:06.:23:07.

Four people from Hong Kong were injured in the attack -

:23:08.:23:10.

Our correspondent in Berlin, Damien McGuiNness, has

:23:11.:23:12.

the latest on this story and the reaction in Germany.

:23:13.:23:15.

What's been the reaction in Germany politically and in the court of

:23:16.:23:19.

public opinion? I think what we can safely say is that this attack is

:23:20.:23:23.

going to have a major impact on German society. That's because as

:23:24.:23:28.

you know, last year Germany Tech in a large number of refugees and

:23:29.:23:33.

migrants. That decision was quite controversial. Lots of people agreed

:23:34.:23:39.

with it and saw it as a good humanitarian gesture. Lots of people

:23:40.:23:43.

disagreed with it and said it wanted destabilise Germany. -- said that it

:23:44.:23:50.

would destabilise Germany. This attack was carried out by a young

:23:51.:23:54.

asylum seeker who came in as part of the wave of refugees and migrants

:23:55.:24:00.

coming here. It's really going to reignite that debate over whether

:24:01.:24:05.

Perlin did the right thing by welcoming in so many refugees and

:24:06.:24:09.

migrants. On the other hand it's also going to put more pressure on

:24:10.:24:14.

Chancellor Angela Merkel because she is facing re-election in a general

:24:15.:24:21.

election next year. We also have regional elections here in Berlin in

:24:22.:24:25.

September. It's going to really have a political impact on the debate,

:24:26.:24:30.

particularly on the one hand to do with the refugee crisis and the

:24:31.:24:35.

government's response, and on the other hand the government's response

:24:36.:24:40.

to security and anti-terrorism measures. It'll increase the

:24:41.:24:43.

nervousness here in Germany that a large attack may at some point

:24:44.:24:49.

happen. It's seen as an individual taking violent action, only 17 years

:24:50.:24:55.

old. But the self-styled IS said they recruited him as a fighter, but

:24:56.:24:59.

it wasn't organised in the way we would perhaps presume if they had

:25:00.:25:04.

had a carefully orchestrated incident like this. That's right,

:25:05.:25:11.

Jo. That's the question right now. The first question was whether this

:25:12.:25:16.

was an Islamist extremist attack, it appears it probably was. There was

:25:17.:25:21.

the IS flagged in his accommodation and the fact that officials have

:25:22.:25:27.

found texts saying that Muslims should take up arms against the

:25:28.:25:32.

West. The second question is whether this was in fact organised by IS or

:25:33.:25:39.

whether he was a lone attacker. Officials in Germany are saying

:25:40.:25:43.

there's no connection they can see between this young man and so-called

:25:44.:25:50.

Islamic State. So far, all the evidence they say is pointing to the

:25:51.:25:54.

fact this was probably a lone attacker. This doesn't make Germans

:25:55.:25:58.

feel more secure because it doesn't mean this was a lone wolf attacking.

:25:59.:26:03.

It's almost harder to prevent something like that because it is

:26:04.:26:08.

such a random attack that you can't foresee. Officials are saying they

:26:09.:26:12.

see no connections with other Islamist groups and they also see no

:26:13.:26:17.

connection official league with so-called Islamic State. It could be

:26:18.:26:24.

that this young man was inspired by IS rather than radicalised directly

:26:25.:26:26.

by the group. This must be the worry that

:26:27.:26:35.

following the tragic events in Nice that individuals saying they are

:26:36.:26:39.

acting on behalf of so-called Islamic State are just deciding to

:26:40.:26:43.

do these things on their own. I agree. It will be a problem for

:26:44.:26:48.

years to come, it's one of the major problems all Western societies are

:26:49.:26:53.

going to face. If IS loses its territory in Syria and Iraq as a

:26:54.:26:59.

result of military campaigns, they will move into this kind of

:27:00.:27:05.

terrorism and there is undoubtedly a crazy mood amongst a fringe of young

:27:06.:27:10.

Muslims that attracts them to this one-off individual massacre of

:27:11.:27:17.

innocent people. It's no good thinking there's a simple way of

:27:18.:27:21.

getting rid of it. You have to improve your intelligence and

:27:22.:27:24.

security, you also have to decide how to mobilise the bulk of the

:27:25.:27:28.

Muslim population, to try to stop this awful influence. The pressure

:27:29.:27:34.

on Angela Merkel will be building, ever since she made that decision

:27:35.:27:38.

that meant that large numbers of migrants and refugees from Syria and

:27:39.:27:44.

other parts of the Middle East came into Europe in Germany, she is at

:27:45.:27:48.

risk politically, isn't she? She might be but that is because

:27:49.:27:52.

extremists and populist groups like to turn into the answer is stop

:27:53.:28:01.

these immigrants coming. They like to pray on these fears. The idea

:28:02.:28:05.

that the solution for Germany is to somehow stop foreigners coming, make

:28:06.:28:15.

sure the people fleeing anarchy and violence in the Middle East and

:28:16.:28:19.

Africa are turned back at our borders, is perverse. The fact is as

:28:20.:28:25.

we know, we've had random items of terrorism, we'll have more I'm

:28:26.:28:28.

afraid although our intelligence services do quite well. We've had

:28:29.:28:34.

British citizens carrying out attacks in London and killing

:28:35.:28:40.

people. Exploiting immigration is just a hardline right-wing

:28:41.:28:44.

exploitation of the understandable worries we have about terrorism in

:28:45.:28:45.

the next few years. The campaign to keep Britain

:28:46.:28:48.

in the EU hoped that their warnings of dire economic consequences

:28:49.:28:51.

if we left would be enough to persuade voters

:28:52.:28:53.

to maintain the status quo. But in the end Project Fear -

:28:54.:28:55.

as it was dubbed by the Leave campaign -

:28:56.:28:58.

failed to convince. So what impact has the decision

:28:59.:29:00.

to leave the EU had We can now say the decision taken

:29:01.:29:03.

in 1975 by this country to join the Common market has been reversed

:29:04.:29:12.

by this referendum to leave the EU. After weeks of campaigning

:29:13.:29:17.

and predictions of disaster from either side, whatever we chose,

:29:18.:29:23.

the result was, to many, unexpected, and came with a truckload

:29:24.:29:26.

of concerns and questions. Having been told by the then

:29:27.:29:31.

Chancellor George Osborne, among others, that leaving the EU

:29:32.:29:34.

would spell financial turmoil, he is no longer in charge of that

:29:35.:29:40.

economy nor in the government that But in one regard he was right

:29:41.:29:43.

and Leave supporters Brexit was always the more

:29:44.:29:46.

uncertain choice, because it And if there's one thing

:29:47.:29:50.

markets hate and react Across the world's markets

:29:51.:29:55.

that morning, sterling fell against the dollar,

:29:56.:30:01.

UK's credit rating was downgraded, the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 fell,

:30:02.:30:07.

as did shares in banks. And the IMF cut economic growth

:30:08.:30:10.

forecasts for the eurozone. Did it mean that Project Fear

:30:11.:30:12.

was becoming Project Fact? Loathe as I am to set up a strawman

:30:13.:30:18.

just to knock it down again, here in the Treasury of course

:30:19.:30:22.

they're watching the UK economy to see whether the vote to leave has

:30:23.:30:25.

had an effect on it. But when you're trying to decide

:30:26.:30:29.

that, it really rather depends If you are a Remainer you will look

:30:30.:30:32.

for evidence they were right, it is all a disaster

:30:33.:30:37.

and it is all going to go wrong. If you are a Leaver,

:30:38.:30:40.

you are going to be looking for evidence that backs up the fact

:30:41.:30:43.

that it was all fine after all. And the truth is it's

:30:44.:30:46.

really too early to tell. Frustratingly, that provides no

:30:47.:30:48.

reassurance for either But as economists who supported

:30:49.:30:51.

Brexit gathered in London last week, they were perhaps

:30:52.:30:57.

unsurprisingly upbeat. Often overlooked is

:30:58.:31:06.

the government borrowing rate Admittedly borrowing rates of many

:31:07.:31:09.

countries are at low levels but it suggests that international

:31:10.:31:13.

investors have not It highlights the fact that the UK

:31:14.:31:15.

Government, if it wanted to, with a new Prime Minister,

:31:16.:31:19.

could borrow incredibly cheaply So when you look at the markets,

:31:20.:31:21.

look at what is happening, as opposed to listening to what

:31:22.:31:25.

people are saying in some respects. Nonetheless, in the world financial

:31:26.:31:28.

powerhouse that is London, there are still signs our referendum

:31:29.:31:31.

decision is having some negative repercussions, especially

:31:32.:31:33.

within the currency markets. Because why would you invest

:31:34.:31:36.

in a country that has yet to work out what its new position

:31:37.:31:41.

is in the normal world environment? But we are not in a normal

:31:42.:31:45.

world environment. We are in a world with almost 0

:31:46.:31:52.

to negative interest rates. We are in a world where growth

:31:53.:31:55.

is at best sluggish. The US could be led by,

:31:56.:31:58.

the first time really in 100 years, by somebody who doesn't believe

:31:59.:32:01.

in international trade and global China, the next biggest economy

:32:02.:32:09.

in the world, is slowing rapidly. Nobody quite knows how much

:32:10.:32:13.

because the official GDP data In a normal world, if this happens,

:32:14.:32:16.

then yes, people would stop Softbank's ?24 billion purchase

:32:17.:32:24.

of ARM will be seized But in the months to come expect

:32:25.:32:29.

supporters of Leave and Remain to cherry pick economic news that

:32:30.:32:36.

chips away at the Joining me now is the former Justice

:32:37.:32:38.

minister and leading Leave Welcome back. Let's look at the

:32:39.:33:00.

data. After the vote to leave, the UK growth forecast for 2016 was cut

:33:01.:33:10.

to 1.9%. Down to door .4% for 2017 and consumer confidence fell at its

:33:11.:33:13.

fastest pace in 22 years with the high street suffering in the wake of

:33:14.:33:21.

the vote to leave, according to a research Society. The warnings of a

:33:22.:33:25.

bomb on to the economy and recession have been proved wrong on the

:33:26.:33:29.

forecasts you just gave me because the suggestion there might be a cut

:33:30.:33:33.

of growth is different from going into recession. Employment is at

:33:34.:33:38.

record levels borrowing levels are good for us and the latest

:33:39.:33:43.

manufacturing index data has been positive and the FTSE 100 and 250

:33:44.:33:48.

are at higher levels than when David Cameron came back with the EU deal

:33:49.:33:53.

in February. Nobody has said there are not short-term risks but my

:33:54.:33:55.

argument would be when we go into the Brexit negotiation and as

:33:56.:34:01.

parameters become clearer and we are clear we will not end up with

:34:02.:34:04.

massive trade barriers, we should focus on managing risk but there are

:34:05.:34:11.

huge opportunities. Let's not talk of it as a damage limitation

:34:12.:34:15.

exercise. Manage the risk and sees those opportunities. It is too early

:34:16.:34:23.

to tell, isn't it? I agree with your commentator. It is silly to look at

:34:24.:34:27.

economic policy and movement in terms of fighting a game that

:34:28.:34:33.

ridiculous referendum campaign when arguments on both sides were frankly

:34:34.:34:36.

painful and rather silly. What you cannot do, my view is you cannot

:34:37.:34:44.

reduce trade links with the market of 500 million people without making

:34:45.:34:51.

yourself poorer. I think there is uncertainty that is causing not only

:34:52.:34:54.

financial markets to go mad. Which they do anyway. We have no

:34:55.:35:00.

investment taking place and falling confidence. The longer the

:35:01.:35:03.

uncertainty goes on more likely we go into recession between now and

:35:04.:35:10.

Christmas. The sooner we end the uncertainty and I agree with

:35:11.:35:16.

Dominik, make sure we do not put new barriers to trade and investment --

:35:17.:35:25.

Dominic Raab. We are going to talk about... All the other things they

:35:26.:35:28.

are arguing about, I would leave that. I would get on with restoring

:35:29.:35:32.

confidence and get people to invest here again by establishing the kind

:35:33.:35:38.

of access the Norwegians have got. There is a recession by Christmas?

:35:39.:35:45.

We were told we would be on an economic cliff edge the day after. I

:35:46.:35:52.

did not say that. He said there would be a recession the day after?

:35:53.:35:57.

I said economic cliff edge. We have not seen that. Look at the Footsie.

:35:58.:36:02.

Let's be clear about the FTSE and the value of sterling. There were

:36:03.:36:06.

falls and it has rallied a little against the dollar and euro. The

:36:07.:36:12.

FTSE 100 later recovered but the FTSE 250 is still below the

:36:13.:36:17.

pre-referendum level. But not below the level when David Cameron came

:36:18.:36:21.

back in February. Businesses from Aston Martin to Amazon have since

:36:22.:36:25.

the result announced new investment in the UK in terms of Aston Martin's

:36:26.:36:32.

Welsh facility and jobs in the UK. I would say there is uncertainty but

:36:33.:36:36.

it is not the doom and gloom predicted. Just before that, on

:36:37.:36:42.

uncertainty, it would be about whether businesses hold on cash,

:36:43.:36:47.

they don't invest. Will that happen because we have to wait at least two

:36:48.:36:51.

years before we know what will come? Two things have happened. One of the

:36:52.:36:58.

causes of uncertainty was about the vacuuming government after the

:36:59.:37:00.

referendum when David Cameron resigned and that has been resolved

:37:01.:37:05.

mercifully swiftly which is one reason why sterling and the FTSE

:37:06.:37:08.

rebounded. And the second thing that has to happen, which we expect by

:37:09.:37:14.

Christmas, is the parameters of the negotiation will be clearer. I hope

:37:15.:37:22.

that that point... There -- it is clear there will not be huge trade

:37:23.:37:27.

barriers. Wait and see the light of the land. It has nothing to do with

:37:28.:37:31.

ludicrous scaremongering preceding the referendum. The ludicrous

:37:32.:37:35.

scaremongering, the idea of a punishment budget, we know what

:37:36.:37:41.

happened to George George Osborne. Balancing the budget at the end of

:37:42.:37:46.

the Parliament has been abandoned. Growth put before deficit reduction,

:37:47.:37:50.

these are positive things? Some things that were said were as daft

:37:51.:37:56.

as the billions of Turks that would flood in if we voted to remain. I

:37:57.:38:02.

stick to the IMF, Bank of England. Mark Carney has been running the

:38:03.:38:12.

shop recently very well. We reported about the institutions. There is a

:38:13.:38:17.

view that many Leave voters felt they were not benefiting from the

:38:18.:38:21.

so-called recovery. We had enough experts. For example, IMF, Bank of

:38:22.:38:27.

England, Mark Carney, the IMF come out with dire predictions. The

:38:28.:38:33.

former chief economist of the IMF, and the committee of the bank of

:38:34.:38:37.

England said it will not be quite as bad as that. What we argued was some

:38:38.:38:42.

political appointees are coming out with rather partisan assessments

:38:43.:38:45.

which their experts do not agree with. Do not attack Mark Carney as a

:38:46.:38:53.

political appointee. Do not interpret the events of the first

:38:54.:38:57.

month as a means of allowing you to make attacks on these institutions

:38:58.:39:01.

made in the first part of the campaign. You got the Euro wrong.

:39:02.:39:12.

Silly populist politics is not the way to deal with a serious economic

:39:13.:39:19.

problem. I scrutinised Mark Carney. Did you accuse him of not being

:39:20.:39:26.

independent? The point I made was when these people came out we

:39:27.:39:31.

looked, for example, Mark Carney, at the Select Committee gave a balanced

:39:32.:39:35.

set of evidence and when he went on the Andrew Marr Show I felt it was a

:39:36.:39:39.

stronger political intervention. You shake your head but compare the

:39:40.:39:43.

evidence he gave to the Treasury Committee. On batch... The serious

:39:44.:39:50.

problem is you will not get major investment in this country. It will

:39:51.:39:57.

not all stop. You will not get the major investment and restore

:39:58.:40:06.

confidence. Rolls-Royce. Gentleman. Until you establish exactly what

:40:07.:40:08.

trade and economic relationships will be. We will discuss that. If

:40:09.:40:14.

you sacrifice some of the axis we have now to the European single

:40:15.:40:17.

market, you will make this country poorer. We are going to talk about

:40:18.:40:28.

it. I want to ask Dominic Raab briefly. You were not on the -- you

:40:29.:40:36.

on the winning side, disappointed you lost your job? More gratified to

:40:37.:40:40.

see Britain take the right decision and I want to see at work and I will

:40:41.:40:44.

support this government and also like Ken Clarke enjoyed the freedom

:40:45.:40:49.

of the backbenchers. Be backed Michael Gove. He is no longer around

:40:50.:40:55.

the cabinet. How big a loss is he to government? One of the great social

:40:56.:41:00.

reformers of our generation so I am sorry to see him go. I will not

:41:01.:41:04.

quibble with the new Prime Minister who has the right to pick a team. I

:41:05.:41:10.

did not bad-mouth anyone through the campaign nor the leadership contest

:41:11.:41:13.

and I will not do it now. You expected probably to be there

:41:14.:41:17.

because people would say you were a leading light in the Leave campaign

:41:18.:41:22.

that was victorious. Very kind, but lots of people have expectations.

:41:23.:41:24.

Politics is a game of ups and downs. One of the big issues as we begin

:41:25.:41:27.

the process of leaving the EU will be what it means for trade

:41:28.:41:31.

with the rest of the world. Those who wanted us to remain

:41:32.:41:34.

in the EU argued the size of the single market is an advantage

:41:35.:41:37.

when striking trade agreements with other countries,

:41:38.:41:39.

while Leave campaigners say the EU is slow at agreeing deals and that

:41:40.:41:41.

Britain loses out from not being able to negotiate

:41:42.:41:44.

our own deals. As well as operating as a single

:41:45.:41:46.

market for trade within the EU, the European Union currently has

:41:47.:41:52.

in place 22 bilateral and five The UK is prevented from signing

:41:53.:41:56.

individual trade deals with other member states or with non-EU

:41:57.:42:04.

countries before it has Brexit Minister David Davis

:42:05.:42:07.

and Trade Minister Liam Fox say they are working towards a leaving

:42:08.:42:11.

date of first January 2019 and that they are already involved

:42:12.:42:17.

in informal trade talks with the aim of having agreements ready

:42:18.:42:21.

to sign on that date. At the weekend Liam Fox said

:42:22.:42:28.

he is "scoping out" deals with a dozen countries and had

:42:29.:42:30.

opened "very fruitful" He cites Australian Prime Minister

:42:31.:42:33.

Malcolm Turnbull's offer to strike a deal with the UK "as soon

:42:34.:42:37.

as possible" as evidence that post-Brexit Britain can be

:42:38.:42:40.

"a beacon for open trade." But others warn that as Britain

:42:41.:42:43.

will be unable to conclude trade deals until it has officially left

:42:44.:42:47.

the EU it may initially have to operate under

:42:48.:42:50.

World Trade Organisation Rules and faces uncertainty over future

:42:51.:42:52.

access to the single market. EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia

:42:53.:42:56.

Malmstrom said earlier this month that the UK cannot begin negotiating

:42:57.:43:01.

a new trade relationship with the EU Dominic Raab is still with us

:43:02.:43:04.

and we've also been joined by Sir Lockwood Smith, New Zealand's

:43:05.:43:11.

High Commissioner in London. Welcome. We were starting to talk

:43:12.:43:23.

about it, we cannot sign deals until we have officially left, that has to

:43:24.:43:27.

be the most worrying thing for British business, the uncertainty

:43:28.:43:31.

you were conceding could set in. I think it is the opposite. We can do

:43:32.:43:36.

the preliminary negotiation and have them ready to go when we leave the

:43:37.:43:40.

EU. Can they be ready to go on day one? You can have informal

:43:41.:43:46.

discussions. People will not invest here to sell cars in Australia or

:43:47.:43:51.

New Zealand. You cannot activate deals because you cannot remain in

:43:52.:43:58.

the single European market and then just let everybody else import into

:43:59.:44:02.

your bit of it. We have to put frontiers in place to get government

:44:03.:44:07.

access. Trade is a complicated thing and those people who have talked

:44:08.:44:10.

about trade negotiations have never had anything to do with them. I have

:44:11.:44:15.

probably heard more rubbish on trade negotiations talked in the

:44:16.:44:20.

referendum than any other subject. Deal with New Zealand, fine but for

:44:21.:44:24.

the time being we are in the single market and we have to work out the

:44:25.:44:28.

basis of what access we will retain to that market. Does Ken Clarke have

:44:29.:44:32.

a point, that should be the priority? We will talk about free

:44:33.:44:38.

trade deals with Australia and Canada but given over 40% of exports

:44:39.:44:43.

go to the EU, is that the priority, securing access to that single

:44:44.:44:48.

market? The referendum was won on taking back control of the economy,

:44:49.:44:52.

laws and borders and the idea we would have free movement and trade,

:44:53.:44:57.

with single market access will not happen. What you said about 40% is

:44:58.:45:05.

right. The gradual share of UK exports of shifted from the

:45:06.:45:10.

continent. Why is that important? Strike more free trade deals, boost

:45:11.:45:14.

jobs at home and cut prices in the shops. That was not my question.

:45:15.:45:21.

What should be the priority? We are not going to trade free movement for

:45:22.:45:26.

access to the single market but there is massive mutual

:45:27.:45:29.

self-interest in making sure we keep that trade going because we have a

:45:30.:45:37.

trade deficit. Why on earth would the French and Germans go into

:45:38.:45:42.

elections in 2017 on a manifesto promising to hike trade barriers.

:45:43.:45:57.

I was the first Trade Minister in the world to sign China up to the

:45:58.:46:03.

World Trade Organisation. I initiated Australia New Zealand...

:46:04.:46:10.

So I know a bit about it. It is complex. One has to be honest. In

:46:11.:46:17.

fact how the UK and negotiates this parting of the ways is hugely

:46:18.:46:21.

important for the world. Because the world needs both the UK and the EU

:46:22.:46:25.

doing well. New Zealand does well when you people do well. With that

:46:26.:46:30.

affect the sort of trade deal you'd be prepared to sign with the UK?

:46:31.:46:37.

We'll work in formerly obviously with the UK. But in fact a couple of

:46:38.:46:41.

things have to happen. First this negotiation with the EU, how the

:46:42.:46:48.

future trade relationship will be. Also at the WTO, the UK has to

:46:49.:46:54.

establish its schedule at the WTO. That may involve replacing the word

:46:55.:46:59.

EU with the UK. All the other members have the chance to have a

:47:00.:47:04.

say in that. These things have to be progressed carefully, wisely and New

:47:05.:47:07.

Zealand is prepared to help whenever we can. It sounds tentative. You're

:47:08.:47:13.

saying you want to see what's going to happen first. We want to help. We

:47:14.:47:18.

think it is not a matter of waiting to see what will happen, we want to

:47:19.:47:22.

help the UK sort out the steps and how to get a really good outcome.

:47:23.:47:28.

It's in our interests. In that sense, there's also talk that being

:47:29.:47:32.

too eager to sign up to trade deals with the likes of Zealand and

:47:33.:47:37.

Australia in formerly, until actually the UK leads the EU, that

:47:38.:47:43.

you will give away too much. There will be too much eagerness to have

:47:44.:47:45.

these deals ready to go that mistakes will be made. I don't think

:47:46.:47:51.

that's the dynamic. I'll see you step negotiating basement protection

:47:52.:47:54.

agreements so I know what it's like to negotiate some of these deals. We

:47:55.:47:59.

should go to countries like New Zealand and Australia. They sell

:48:00.:48:02.

their exports of wine to the UK. We should be going to them, we want to

:48:03.:48:07.

drink more of your wine. That will put the pressure on the French and

:48:08.:48:13.

will be the biggest dampening on the likelihood of trade barriers. We

:48:14.:48:17.

should be doing the same with the Koreans and the Japanese around

:48:18.:48:21.

cars. We should at the same time be going to the business there's an

:48:22.:48:24.

trade fairs across continental Europe and saying, we want to keep

:48:25.:48:30.

buying your goods, we are going to have a more competitive arrangement

:48:31.:48:33.

going forward. Don't let the politicians ruin it. In 2017 there

:48:34.:48:39.

are German presidential elections, are they really going to run on a

:48:40.:48:42.

manifesto of trade barriers that will crush French and German jobs?

:48:43.:48:47.

They make it more difficult to make concessions. The German and French

:48:48.:48:52.

will want to minimise the damage from this but I hope Liam Fox is

:48:53.:48:55.

listening to this is about how we are going to go on. Meanwhile what I

:48:56.:49:00.

really dislike is the idea that of course is the condition of the trade

:49:01.:49:04.

deals is it all depends on our reaching some decision about which

:49:05.:49:07.

people we are going to stop coming to work here, which people will stop

:49:08.:49:12.

coming to be students. We are going to say to the Europeans, we don't

:49:13.:49:18.

want your construction workers, your academics, the students coming to

:49:19.:49:21.

our universities, we are going to put our controls on them. And of

:49:22.:49:28.

course trade is going to be dependent on our agreement first of

:49:29.:49:32.

all. This nonsense has got to be abandoned. But people will have to

:49:33.:49:38.

respond to the vote. We've run out of time but do you think you will

:49:39.:49:41.

sign up a deal the day after Brexit happens? We certainly want to be

:49:42.:49:47.

involved in the informal work but it's got to be done sensibly and

:49:48.:49:51.

wisely and the EU has got to be part of this. It's got to be done in a

:49:52.:49:59.

balanced way with smart minds. On the other side of the political

:50:00.:50:03.

pond, this was supposed to be the week where Donald Trump was anointed

:50:04.:50:08.

as Republican candidate for the presidential election. The

:50:09.:50:11.

Republican Convention Toft Way rather chaotic start. Andrew is in

:50:12.:50:20.

New York and has been across events. Tell us what happened. America went

:50:21.:50:25.

to bed in King Mrs Trump had done a pretty good job. It was a little

:50:26.:50:32.

over scripted but she pulled it off and was getting good reviews in the

:50:33.:50:39.

post-speech analysis. America has woken up to a huge row that a huge

:50:40.:50:45.

chunk of the speech was plagiarised from Michelle Obama's speech to the

:50:46.:50:49.

Democratic convention. They overlapped, the use of words is

:50:50.:50:52.

almost exactly the same. Normally what would happen is that the speech

:50:53.:50:57.

writer would be given a loaded revolver and a bottle of whiskey and

:50:58.:51:03.

simply held off a tall building. The problem is that Mrs Trump has told

:51:04.:51:09.

an American network that she scripted the speech almost entirely

:51:10.:51:12.

herself and she only had to rehearse it once. It's an ongoing row but

:51:13.:51:17.

this being the Trump campaign, in the end probably nothing will come

:51:18.:51:22.

of it. Does anything seem to stick? Does any of it matter? Nothing so

:51:23.:51:27.

far. Other than Mrs Trump last night, it was a collection of beer

:51:28.:51:34.

list celebrities. There was a guy from Happy Days, there was an

:51:35.:51:38.

Italian male model, there will walk on parts

:51:39.:51:48.

from The Apprentice. The attempt to try and stop him from being the

:51:49.:51:54.

Republican nomination petered out yesterday afternoon. It now builds

:51:55.:51:58.

up to his coronation on Thursday night. What we still don't know is

:51:59.:52:02.

how he will reach out beyond his base which was there last night, to

:52:03.:52:06.

the broad electorate that he needs to win. That will be the test he's

:52:07.:52:12.

got to pass on Thursday. What did you make of Rudy Giuliani? He gave a

:52:13.:52:23.

fairly rousing speech himself. It was barnstorming. It was probably

:52:24.:52:26.

the best speech of the night if you like that kind of thing. He was way

:52:27.:52:31.

ahead of the other speakers and it hammered home the theme of this

:52:32.:52:35.

convention that America is unsafe, it will take Donald Trump to make it

:52:36.:52:41.

safe, that Obama has been weak and Hillary Clinton will be even weaker.

:52:42.:52:45.

That was the theme pounded out again and again and again. Not say from

:52:46.:52:49.

its enemies abroad, not save they save from its enemies within. And

:52:50.:52:56.

taking place after yet more police shootings, this resonates with the

:52:57.:53:00.

Republican base. Does it resonate beyond that? That, we still don't

:53:01.:53:05.

know. Is there any evidence that he's reaching out beyond the core?

:53:06.:53:11.

There is. The polls are narrowing in his favour. Mrs Clinton is still in

:53:12.:53:15.

the lead but there's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that the more

:53:16.:53:19.

you talk about law and order issues, the more you talk about toughness in

:53:20.:53:24.

America, the more that connects with a particular blue-collar vote. This

:53:25.:53:28.

Republican party is not the Republican party of old, of the East

:53:29.:53:33.

Coast, of the establishment, of the money, of Wall Street. This is a

:53:34.:53:41.

reinvented workers party. It is increasingly a blue-collar party on

:53:42.:53:46.

the right. The question is, and it's a white blue-collar party. I'm told

:53:47.:53:50.

there may be fewer black delegates at this convention than there were

:53:51.:53:57.

at the 1964 convention when Goldwater was nominated post-civil

:53:58.:54:02.

rights. Mr Trump intends on getting a massive turnout of disillusioned

:54:03.:54:06.

white voters, and there are plenty of those around. Thank you very much

:54:07.:54:11.

forgetting up so early to talk to us. Your cheque is in the post. Yet

:54:12.:54:16.

another 10p. LAUGHTER Now, Ken here is famous

:54:17.:54:21.

for speaking is mind, Indeed he tends to be even more

:54:22.:54:23.

outspoken when he thinks the microphones are off but are,

:54:24.:54:27.

in fact, on. In a recent unguarded moment he

:54:28.:54:34.

described Theresa May as a bloody difficult woman although it doesn't

:54:35.:54:37.

seem to have dented her career prospects.

:54:38.:54:39.

So to honour this Great British tradition of accidental

:54:40.:54:42.

plain-speaking, here's our top five microphone gaffes.

:54:43.:55:07.

Well all these Eastern Europeans that are coming in...

:55:08.:55:09.

About a million British people have gone into Europe.

:55:10.:55:15.

The irony is that what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah

:55:16.:55:56.

His derogatory comments about the three, who are known

:55:57.:56:02.

to have reservations about Britain's links with Europe,

:56:03.:56:04.

is just the kind of political blunder Mr Major could ill afford,

:56:05.:56:08.

The Prime Minister said he'd got threebastards in the cabinet.

:56:09.:56:16.

Mr Reagan was at the ranch preparing for the weekly radio broadcast.

:56:17.:56:23.

Testing the microphone, he made a light-hearted remark that

:56:24.:56:25.

For the networks recorded it and last night broadcasted it.

:56:26.:56:33.

My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that

:56:34.:56:35.

I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia for ever.

:56:36.:56:38.

Those famous gaffes. We're joined by Parliamentary sketch writer for the

:56:39.:56:58.

Guardian. Do they ruin careers best amok not in the case of Ken, for

:56:59.:57:04.

certain. One of the secret sister have first name recognition. I think

:57:05.:57:12.

if you are a Boris, your gaffes tend to be forgiven -- one of the secrets

:57:13.:57:18.

is to have first name recognition. There was a sense that you were

:57:19.:57:21.

saying something that everybody thought was true. You said what you

:57:22.:57:30.

really meant. Absolutely. I went on to compare her with Margaret

:57:31.:57:33.

Thatcher who was also a bloody difficult woman. I think I added to

:57:34.:57:39.

the entertainment of the nation, that was the impression I got. Every

:57:40.:57:44.

colleague I met came towards me laughing because they'd just been

:57:45.:57:50.

watching it. Don't you think it's time politicians learn to be careful

:57:51.:57:56.

around radio microphones? LAUGHTER In the age of spin doctors who

:57:57.:58:03.

carefully micromanage lines, and politicians only saying things

:58:04.:58:07.

they've been told to say by the whips, it is often refreshing to get

:58:08.:58:11.

something of the real person. With your line on Michael Gove, I think

:58:12.:58:15.

you were probably conservative. I think he could fight a war with four

:58:16.:58:19.

or five countries at the same time not just three! Anything you'd like

:58:20.:58:25.

to say to the nation today before we go?! I accept the stricture that

:58:26.:58:32.

Malcolm Rifkind and I have been around far too long to be caught

:58:33.:58:36.

sitting in a TV studio with the microphone on. We are obviously

:58:37.:58:41.

losing a bit of our old professionalism really. Worse things

:58:42.:58:45.

have happened. I don't think heard with those other mega disasters mind

:58:46.:58:51.

was anything other than enlightening the nation of what precisely my

:58:52.:58:57.

views were. Thank you for coming in. Thank you for being the guest of the

:58:58.:58:58.

day. Goodbye. You're coming across as, frankly,

:58:59.:59:01.

ridiculous. You've done an appalling job

:59:02.:59:06.

of selling them online. Erm...

:59:07.:59:12.

I mean, I'm... We're... We're...

:59:13.:59:14.

Jo Coburn is joined by Ken Clarke to discuss the vote to renew Trident, with former shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn, as well as Britain's economic outlook after the vote to leave the EU.

The New Zealand high commissioner, Sir Lockwood Smith, and former justice minister and leading Leave campaigner Dominic Raab look at the prospects for the UK's international trade.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS