Browse content similar to 09/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Theresa May sets out major changes to the school system in England, | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
with plans for a new wave of grammar schools. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
The Prime Minister wants existing grammar schools | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
in England to expand, new ones to open and some existing | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
This time next week we'll know who's taking over from Nigel Farage | :00:55. | :01:03. | |
We take a look at the runners and riders. | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
And Brexit banter, UB40 and Parliamentary Dog of the Year - | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
we take a look back at the political week, in 60 seconds. | :01:14. | :01:22. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
former Labour advisor turned stand-up comedian Matt Forde, | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
She does the jokes at the Economists, not that there is many. | :01:32. | :01:43. | |
First, Labour, and with two weeks to go until the result | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
of the Labour leadership contest, the two candidates went head-to-head | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
in a Question Time special on BBC One last night. | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
Here's a quick taste of how the two men, | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
Unless I misunderstood you, you said you would like to see | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Labour go into the next election saying - our party policy | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
Because we need to find out what it is. | :02:01. | :02:12. | |
Brexit vote set a direction, if you like, we don't know | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Jeremy, it is fine saying, you were there, debating Brexit | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
during the referendum, but we didn't hear that | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
We put the case to Remain and reform, we didn't win | :02:25. | :02:37. | |
We have to work with the results of it. | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
Owen, I don't fully understand what the problem is. | :02:45. | :02:55. | |
You obviously have enormous talents, why can't we work together? | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
Well, I've said it several times, Jeremy. | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
If I felt you were going to lead Labour back to power, I would work | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
with you in the Shadow Cabinet but I feel you are satisfied to lead | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
There we go a flavour of what happened last night. Two weeks to G | :03:09. | :03:21. | |
what did you make of it? I thought the first clip wags interesting. We | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
saw Owen Smith being put under pressure on that commitment to | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
effectively ignore the referendum result. I think it is odd | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
positioning for him, in a party where one-third of Labour voters | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
voted out in the referendum. I could see a strong pro-European tact that | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
he should take. I thought Jeremy Corbyn, as we saw there, put him | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
rather on the spot on that. You do have to work with the result, | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
whether you are a Remainer or Brexiter. The problem then, I think | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
for Owen Smith is that really, does he look like a credible candidate | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
against Jeremy Corbyn? It perhaps looks as if he is the bravest. He is | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
the one that has been prepared to stick his neck out. But I think it | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
is a bit of a stretch to say - well, if we had this guy we would | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
certainly be heading back to car, if we keep Jeremy Corbyn we wouldn't. | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
That's the problem Labour voters will have with it. The consensus | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
seemed to be last night. This was the big debate, BBC One, big | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
audience, there are other debates, of course but this seemed to be the | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
one where you had to perform to get cut through, Mr Corbyn did better | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
than Mr Owen. He did all right. But he had the audience on his side, | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
significantly. I think one of the most frustrating things as a viewer | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
has been and it is an issue for the BBC and other broadcasters, how do | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
you get an audience that's genuinely nonpartisan. If you are opening it | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
up online, people pretend they are floating voters or not Corbynistas | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
or not Remainers or Brexiters. From the moment that started last night, | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
Owen Smith was facial a wall of noise. It was perfectly responsible | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
for people to cheeks but if I didn't have to watch it for work, I would | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
have turned it off. There is a level of political discourse that none of | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
us should welcome. Some level of noise and cheering is fine but I | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
felt last night there was a level of aggression in the audience that | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
Corbyn at times faced, it wasn't all from his side but you got the sense | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
from watching it, as neutrally as you can, that Owen Smith was up | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
against it before he opened his mouth. Owen Smith didn't have a | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
breakthrough last night. It wasn't a game changer for him. He was the | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
challenger, you need game changers if you were the chal Enner. It would | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
be possible to conclude, I would suggest, that it is therefore, all | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
over. - the challenger. I should think it is. A sharp intake of | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
breath to my right here. Briefly, I think it probably is all over. It | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
feels like the momentum is with Corbyn. Let's be honest, the | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
organisation is far better on the left of the Labour Party than what | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
used to be right of the party or even the centre of the party. A lot | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
of t never mind entryism but exitism going on. Exitism, is that just | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
outside Exeter. I suppose the cynic would say last night was a squabble | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
over who gets to lose in 2020? I don't think that deblight have have | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
made any difference. People's minds were set at the start of the | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
campaign, people joined either to support Corbyn or Smith and wherever | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
you take the data from, and we have seen the polling, members of the | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
party pre-Corbyn support Smith and those who joined to support Corbyn | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
are still there. You could have had no debates in the contest and it | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
probably wouldn't have affected the outcome. Well, the result will be on | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
Saturday, the day before the Labour Conference begins on Liverpool on | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
the Sunday. Now it is time for our daily quiz: | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
Exsitentialism, what does it mean? No. That's for another day. | :06:47. | :06:56. | |
the Chancellor Philip Hammond apparently dropped? | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
B) fixing the roof while the sun shines? | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
At the end of the show, Anne and Matt will give us | :07:04. | :07:15. | |
We learned yesterday the Autumn Statement, Mr Hammond's first major | :07:16. | :07:28. | |
act as Chancellor will be on November 23rd. Of course we will | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
bring it all to you, here, live on the Daily Politics special on BBC | :07:35. | :07:35. | |
Two. In her first major domestic policy | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
speech this morning, the Prime Minister has set | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
out her plans for education They are much more far-reaching, | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
whether you agree or disagree is another matter. They are much more | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
far-reaching than anybody thought. Including many of her Tory | :07:54. | :07:54. | |
colleagues. Theresa May wants to end the ban | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
on selective schools, introduced by Mr Blair in the last | :07:58. | :08:05. | |
Labour Government and used to set out her vision for turning | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
schools into "an engine Mrs May wants to allow new grammar | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
schools to open and give the green light to existing grammar schools | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
wanting to expand. In her speech she said she plans | :08:17. | :08:18. | |
to make "this country a true meritocracy" and laid out | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
a number of suggestions for how to achieve this, | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
through more selection in schools. The Government will consult | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
on proposals to require new or expanding grammar schools | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
to take a proportion of pupils from lower income households, | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
to establish new non-selective free schools, and to sponsor feeder | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
schools in areas with a high density The Prime Minister also intends | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
to change existing rules which mean religious groups opening free | :08:43. | :08:55. | |
schools can only allocate 50% of places to children whose | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
parents are of that faith. The rule has been seen | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
as a particular barrier to the Catholic Church opening free | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
schools because it didn't agree Downing Street say they will lift | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
this cap, while also making faith schools do more to make | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
sure their pupils integrate Theresa May made the case | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
for her belief in the power of selective schools to raise | :09:19. | :09:33. | |
standards in education - The debate over selective schools | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
has raged for years but the only place it has got us to, | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
is a place where selection exists if you are wealthy, | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
if you can afford to go private We are effectively saying to poorer | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
and some of the most disadvantaged children in our country | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
that they can't have the kind of education their richer | :09:52. | :09:53. | |
counterparts can enjoy. Where is the meritocracy | :09:54. | :09:55. | |
in a system that advantages How can a meritocratic Britain let | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
this position stand? We can talk now to our | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
political correspondent, Alex Forsyth, who was watching | :10:09. | :10:10. | |
the Prime Minister's speech earlier. Snr there was an expectation for | :10:11. | :10:22. | |
when Mrs May became Prime Minister she would allow existing grammar | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
schools to expand and maybe allow a few new ones. That has turned out to | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
be far more wide-reaching than what we anticipated, isn't it? It has. It | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
is radical, bold and bear in mind this is her first major domestic | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
policy speech and she has gone out all guns blazing. I think her own | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
opinion about grammar schools has been clear for a while, she has | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
grammar schools in her constituency and wrote a blog a couple of years | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
ago, encouraging the expansion of local grammar schools, so it is no | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
big surprise she supports the concept of selective education and | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
we have heard rumours about some sort of policy, about allowing | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
existing grammar schools to ex-SPAD since she took office. On the | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
grammar school front, yes, expansion of existing ones but also new ones, | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
but it goes wider than that, encouraging new faith school places | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
and new Catholic schools to open. About universities and independent | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
schools having to get involved ape either set up or sponsor state | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
schools as well. The real message from Theresa May today was directly | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
counter--ing criticism about a return to the only binary system of | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
the past, where you had grammar schools and then the secondary mod | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
earns and very much felt that those who went to the grammar schools went | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
on it to flourish and those who didn't were left behind it languish. | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
What she was trying to say today was she wants to create a diverse school | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
system where there is a range of options in every local area, so | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
children can go to the best school for them, for their parents, for | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
their skills, for their abilities. Of course that's not going to cancel | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
all critty, we know the Labour Party and Lib Dems are opposed to this. | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
Let me ask you this, where do we go from here? There is a will the that | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
still has to be fleshed out, by no means, were all the questions | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
answered this morning. There will have to be a long period of | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
consultation I assume, as well, and will there have to be legislation, | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
too? Do we have any idea of the timetable? We that we can expect | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
further details on Monday when these proposals will be put before | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
Parliament, so perhaps some more detail there. We also know that | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Theresa May's approach traditionally is a fairly cautious one. She | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
welcomes the idea of consultation and I think what you are hearing is | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
that this was a genuine consultation, this is her concept, | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
her vision and ideas and then there will be a process of feedback and | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
feeding into that before definitive proposals come forward. At some | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
point this has to get through Parliament. We know because the | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
opposition parties don't support the idea of selective education | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
particularly, a number of Conservative MPs do like the idea of | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
a return to grammar schools by by no mean always. Carmichael the Chair of | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
the Education Select Committee, has expressed concerns about whether | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
this really will help social mobility. The test is two-followed. | :13:05. | :13:12. | |
Not just convincing those in the education establishment, and | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
convincing parents, but she'll also have to get this through Parliament. | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Thank you very much for that. We'll keep across this big news story, | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
hitting the British political system. In a moment we'll talks to | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
the Schools Minister, Nick Gibb. But first, joining us is Lucy Powell, | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
Labour's former Shadow Education Secretary. Well back. Is it your | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
position, Labour's position to be against all selection by ability? | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
Selection is not a good thing and that is what all the evidence shows | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
us, that those who are most disadvantaged by a selective system | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
are those from the poorest background. And that's why we will | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
oppose this measure. We are opposed to selection. And we think this is a | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
retro grade step. Because the biggest challenge that our schools | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
system, our education system faces, it is the one it has faced for many, | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
many years, is the long tale of underachievement. It's not what | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
happens to the top 20% that do very well in our education system. It's | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
the long tale of underachievement. And that gap was narrowing under the | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
last Labour Government. It started to widen again under this | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
Conservative Government and, introducing selection will take that | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
gap wider still, because that's what all the evidence shows us, which is | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
why the social mobilities tsar, the Government's own social mobility | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
tsar, the Chief Inspector of Schools, the Chair of the Tory | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
Education Select Committee, the Sutton Tru, the institution that | :14:42. | :14:43. | |
looks most at social mobility are all against the measure. To be clear | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
there, nothing in what Mrs May has said that you find appealing. | :14:49. | :14:56. | |
Nothing? The only thing I liked in her speech today was that she | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
rightly identified that free school meals is not the only measure of | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
deprivation, and that there are many working poor families whose kids | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
also need extra support at school. So if she wants to look at extending | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
the pupil premium beyond those who are on free school meals to those | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
that are the working poor families as well, I think that would be a | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
very good thing to do indeed. So her analysis, in many ways, was right, | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
the solution is totally wrong. But what is the principal objection to | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
an element of selection by ability in a school system, which is famous, | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
both in the private and in the state sector, for having selection by | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
wealth? Why do we tolerate selection by wealth, and yet you are so | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
against selection by ability, regardless of wealth? I am not for | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
selection by wealth either, but that is what happens especially with | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
grammar schools, where private Jewish in an spending extra money on | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
going to a private prep school or having private Jewish and is the | :16:05. | :16:13. | |
single biggest... It is not just -- private cherishing. You take the top | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
500, and since in Britain, only 6% of pupils going to these state | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
schools are on free school meals, which is a decent enough proxy of | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
poor background, whereas the national averages over 16%, so even | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
the copperheads of system is selecting on wealth. -- the | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
comprehensive system. Why would a bit of selection on ability not be | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
preferable? Firstly what we need to aim towards, there is an outstanding | :16:47. | :16:54. | |
school in every community. These are figures after 13 years. Let me | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
finish, the other thing we should be looking at is how we measure what a | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
good school is. It is not simply about what results you get at the | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
end of that school experience. Because if you come from an | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
advantaged background where you are well supported, and you are able, | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
you would do well at those schools, which is why those schools get the | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
results. But the progress measure is what we should be judging a score | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
by. My point to you, Lucy Powell, which I would like you to address | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
because it is a really important issue is this, that we have | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
substantial selection by wealth in our state system, in the state | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
system. What are we going to do about that? We need to support for | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
schools to improve. That's meaningless. I would say to you for | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
example there is an outstanding school in the middle of Manchester | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
that serves my constituency that just recently had an Ofsted | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
outstanding in every single category. A deprived white working | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
class community, they got outstanding results. Where they take | :18:08. | :18:19. | |
their children from and where they get them to is significantly better | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
than some of the middle-class competence of schools, certainly | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
than many of the grammar schools, and actually in many cases many of | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
the private schools as well. So I think if you flip out how you look | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
at these things, middle-class parents choose middle-class schools | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
combat what we need outstanding schools that are showing progress. | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
All right, I am going to have to stop you there. But I am grateful | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
for it, and I hope in the weeks ahead we will have plenty more time | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
to talk. I notice your pet subject editors minus well. We will both go | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
through it together, thank you, Lucy Powell. The schools Minister joins | :18:59. | :19:08. | |
us from outside the rather splendid premises where Mrs May made her | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
speech. What is your electoral mandate to do this? In the manifesto | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
we said we wanted to increase the number of good school places, | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
whether that is a grammar school. What the speech today was all about | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
was creating more good school places. That is why we want the | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
university 's help us establish good schools, we want the independent | :19:31. | :19:32. | |
sector tout is why we want the universities to help us establish | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
good schools, we want the independent sector tout us establish | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
them to establish more good school places, whether that is by expanding | :19:38. | :19:39. | |
or by establishing new grammar schools or buy them establishing | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
primary schools or nonselective schools. The manifesto actually said | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
we will allow all good schools to expand. They didn't say you are | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
going to create new grammar schools. It didn't say you were going to | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
allow selection of existing state schools to take place, or to create | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
new grammar schools in areas where there are already combines its. | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
That's not in the manifesto. So again, where is your electoral | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
mandate? We want more good school places throughout the country, and | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
over the last six years we have reformed our education system, | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
bringing about improvements in schools that have historically | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
underperformed. So now there are 1.4 million more pupils in schools that | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
are good and outstanding, and we want to build on that. We want to | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
build on those good school places and create more. We want to build on | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
the diversity of our school system and allow people, young people from | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
poor backgrounds, to have the same access to the kind of education that | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
has historically only been available to those who can pay school fees or | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
who can afford to move to areas that have outstanding schools. Already | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
183 grammar schools left, why didn't they help for students? Why have | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
they been largely irrelevant in helping poor students? They help | :21:02. | :21:12. | |
those who attend them. What is the percentage? They are not perform... | :21:13. | :21:21. | |
What is the percentage? It is 3% of children on free school meals, | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
again, a good proxy or poverty, get into the existing grammar schools. | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
The national average is 16%, so the existing grammar schools are doing | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
very little for social mobility. I absolutely agree with that. When you | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
see the details that we published on Monday, you will see there are | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
conditions attached. We want grammar schools to be doing more to work | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
with their feeder grammar schools. A lot of children from poorer families | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
are not applying the grammar schools. Some of the feeder grammar | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
schools are not giving their children the prior operations they | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
need to get into those grammar schools. We want those issues | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
addressed and actually you can find grammar schools around the country | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
that are working very hard to reach out to children from poorer | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
families, and they are delivering that objective and getting more poor | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
children into those grammar schools, and that is what want to see | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
throughout the school system. Let's ask you about some details. Who will | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
decide to form a new grammar school? That can be as now, the Free School | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
programme is all about encouraging groups of teachers or parents or a | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
charitable foundation, or existing outstanding or good schools. We do | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
encourage them now. So Free schools can become grammar schools, is that | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
right? Existing ones and new free schools can become grammar schools? | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
Yes, what this is about is about taking away a barrier to | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
establishing good news schools. We are not talking about going back to | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
the binary system of the 1950s and 60s. We have a very diverse | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
education system now, where 85% of schools are good or outstanding, and | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
we want to add an element of diversity so that we can be sure | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
that poor children, bright, poor children, are being given the same | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
opportunities, no matter where they live in the country, children who | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
live in Kent for Bucks, or who can afford private education, we want | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
poor children to have those same opportunities. That is what this is | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
about. Let me ask you this. If an existing comprehensive desired -- | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
decides a percentage of its intake will be selected on ability, does | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
that make it a grammar school? That would make it what is called a | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
bilateral school. A what? A partially selective school or a | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
bilateral school. They have already been selecting 35%, for example | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Watford Grammar boys school, and Watford Grammar school for girls, | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
they are partially selective, 75% of the pupils are of comprehensive | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
intake. There are other schools around the country like that. We | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
want to have a diverse system, so that an academy can decide to select | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
a smaller percentage of pupils. What sort of percentage are we looking | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
at? You are saying some schools, existing conferences may be to do | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
some selection by ability, what sort of percentage are looking at? Like | :24:39. | :24:48. | |
Watford, like as Sean school. They select 12 .5, 15% of their pupils, | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
up to 35% already do so. There aren't that many of them but it is | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
an existing, historical type of school that that exist now. What we | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
are saying in the White Paper, the green paper that we will publish on | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
Monday, is that we want there to be more diversity in our school system, | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
so we can make sure that every child from whatever background... I | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
understand, you have made that point, everybody has that aim, the | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
question is always the means. Is it your intention, as selection | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
spreads, with extending existing grammar schools, new grammar schools | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
and existing comprehensives allowed to do an element of selection, isn't | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
still your intention that selection will still be done primarily by the | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
11 plus and the spread of the 11 plus? These are the kinds of details | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
that we will be consulting on. Pretty big detail. After Monday, | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
when we publish the green paper. This is a government that wants to | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
consult widely on policy objectives, and those are the kinds of details. | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
The 11 plus surely is not fit for purpose? Sorry to interrupt, the 11 | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
plus is surely not fit for purpose, as something that can determine | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
pupils future is at the age of 11, with a one winner takes all type | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
test? What the Prime Minister spoke about today was allowing flexibility | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
for new grammar schools, so pupils can enter later at 14 or 16, as well | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
as at age 11. We also want a process that doesn't allow pupils to cheated | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
to get through that selection process and there are grammar | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
schools already, particularly in Kent, that by working on Jupiter | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
probe selection processes in those schools. Good luck with that. We are | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
actually over time, but I have one more question for you it is such an | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
important issue. Isn't the danger you face of the desire for more | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
social mobility that the new grammar schools, the extension of existing | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
grammar schools, introducing more selection on ability into | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
comprehensives, that that is all more likely to happen if it happens | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
at all in already existing middle-class, Tory areas, and that | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
it will simply make the educational divide even wider? No, because we're | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
not going back to a binary system. We have a school system now where | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
schools have improved unrecognisably over the last exteriors, and even | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
beyond that. So we now have a system where 80 to 85% of all schools are | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
graded good and outstanding, 1.4 million more pupils today in good | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
and outstanding schools than in 2010. The whole reform programme | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
over the last six years has been about school improvement and it has | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
been working. But it is a very diverse education system, so what | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
this is about is about making sure that that diversity and genuine | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
choice for parents isn't just confined to those middle-class areas | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
you are talking about. We want it to spread the part of the country where | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
the 1.25 million pupils who don't have access to a good or outstanding | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
school, where they live. That is the objective, to spread it right across | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
the country. We will be hoping to talk to you a lot more on this | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
subject, Nick did. You have been in and out of the sun and shadows while | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
you have been doing this and I know it is not easy, even more difficult | :28:18. | :28:19. | |
for the cameraman to keep the lighting proper, so we thank you. -- | :28:20. | :28:29. | |
Nick Gibb, the schools minister. This is a massive reform of the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
school system, you almost feel as if it was being done on the back of a | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
fag packet. There is that, and I think the context matters, this is | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
what Theresa May has set herself different from her predecessor, to | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
rise above the Brexit debate and set herself as a traditional Tory. But | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
in her defence, I would say in education where state schools are | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
failing, you do need to be radical about tackling a lack of attainment, | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
and if I lived in an area and I had children and there was a good | :29:03. | :29:04. | |
grammar school there, whatever I thought of it I will try to get my | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
child into it. Now education has changed, thanks to academies and | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
free schools, I hate to agree with Nick did, but it is not a binary | :29:12. | :29:21. | |
system any more. -- I hate to agree with Nick Gibb. So you were a bit | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
disappointed in Lucy Powell's reaction, which was a traditional | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
Labour Party reaction? It was. Labour has entrenched itself in a | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
pro combines a system where actually a lot of the people who espouse it | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
did not go to comprehensives themselves. There is a scene in the | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
original Batman movie with a joker sister Batman, where does he get all | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
of his wonderful prose? Where did Theresa May get all of these ideas? | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
She was Home Secretary, she has only been Prime Minister for a couple of | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
months. Part of that time was walking the hills of Switzerland. | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
Has she been secretly cooking all this up, or has she got an | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
educational guru? I think I can answer your Batman question, it is | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
what she has thought of her life, she didn't need to cook it up. That | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
is the DNA of much of the Tory party, also Nick Webb, who until | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
today was out there promoting academies and they would we did not | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
hear once, possibly in passing -- Nick Gibb. The focus has turned to a | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
return to grammar schools. I don't think it is back up the fag packet | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
territory, Andrew, but there are so much complexity that you drew out in | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
that interview with Nick Gibb, what is the age of selection? What is the | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
manner of selection? What is the impact, and it was not addressed at | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
all to the academies programme. We heard that school improvement was | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
all going very well but if it was, why not simply tweak that, have | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
greater selection perhaps within the academies programme, 20% roughly is | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
what a lot of them get away with at the moment, move that upwards, why | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
say you are going to bring back a grammar school, which as you pointed | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
out seems to require a moment when you saw the sheep from the goats? | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
That would be the very divisive thing. Questions, questions, | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
questions. Earlier this week a group of British | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
peers and Christian leaders travelled to Syria to meet the | :31:18. | :31:19. | |
Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and appeal for him to protect | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
the lives of Christians The visit was criticised | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
by MPs, for strengthening Soon afterwards, footage emerged | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
showing what appeared to be the aftermath of a chlorine gas | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
attack in Syria's On Wednesday, the Foreign Secretary, | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
Boris Johnson, met Syrian opposition leaders in London to push | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
for a resumption of peace talks It is obviously critical | :31:42. | :31:43. | |
that the world, and all the interlocutors in Geneva, | :31:44. | :31:52. | |
should be able to see that there is a future for Syria | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
that goes beyond the Assad regime, and think that was one of the big | :31:55. | :32:03. | |
questions that for years, frankly, we've been unable | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
to answer satisfactory. What happens when | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
Assad finally goes? And of course there is widespread | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
agreement across the world that he must go, including | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
with the Russians. There has been less clarity about | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
the post-Assad vision for Syria. We've been joined by Caroline Cox, | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
who was one of the group of British peers and Christian leaders who met | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
Bashar Al-Assad this week. What did you hope to achieve by | :32:34. | :32:47. | |
meeting the Syrian dictator? We have been heavily criticised for that. I | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
have three quick answers. One if if you don't meet someone you can't | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
raise criticism. Secondly we were invited by Muslim and Christian | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
leaders. We spent two hours with Assad, we spent five days, listening | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
to the local people. It was a tiny part of the visit but there is | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
double standards in the crit civil. I work in Sudan, the Government is | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
bombing its people there. Nobody makes the criticism. I understand | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
that. But my question is - what did you hope to achieve? We raised our | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
concerns with the President but we really went to hear the people and | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
to hear their points. I understand that but I am anticipate talking | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
about the meeting with Assad. We were able to raise our concerns and | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
they are serious concerns. He had a chance to respond. We still have | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
those concerns. But we have been seen to hear, it is important. You | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
can't judge from a distance, you have to meet someone to hear | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
criticisms. Did you come away, did you believe him, if he said he | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
understood and would act on your concerns? He said he was perfectly | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
prepared to have internationally supervised elections. One of the | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
concerns we had from the people, the Syrian people have a right to choose | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
their own leadership. They have to right to elections. They are very | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
worried... Did you believe him? I do. Why? He has never had them | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
before, except ones he has fixed? He said international observers but in | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
the meantime the Syrian people have two concerns: The first is they have | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
a right to choose their own leader and secondly they are very worried | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
about the Government's approximately sieve forced regime change. The | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
British Government's policy? Yes. These are all Assad talking points. | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
I mean you have come away from it, we have this picture of you all | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
meeting him there, this is the man that drops barrel bombs on people, | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
and chemical weapons and chlorine is now being used and you come away and | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
in your statement there, essentially is a mouth piece for this regime. | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
You talk about the Syrian people must choose their own leader. That's | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
right. It is unexceptional that he says that for a particular reason. | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
You even quote the senior doctor's council. There are 4,000 doctors in | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
Aleppo. The medical needs of the vast majority are impacted by the | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
refusal of the international community to engage with the | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
government. That's another Assad propaganda talking point. And you | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
attack the Western media narrative, which is at the core of Assad's | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
anti-Western talking points. You have become a mouth piece of this | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
dictator. No, spokesmen, people who were there, heard the people, saw | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
what happened on the day when they were criticisms. But the militant | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
opposition groups also use chemical weapons, it is not reported. It was | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
not reported. On one of the days we were there, when reported Assad on | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
chemical weaponsical weapons there were four attacks on civilians by | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
opposition groups, many who were burnt alive. It wasn't reported. | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
There were four missiles on Aleppo on the day we were there, it is not | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
reported. As you will understand, operating in Syria is very difficult | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
for the media but I would suggest, where there are atrocities, the | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
media has reported atrocities on both sides and for you to come in, | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
many people, with whom we met, ie, Mr Assad's supporters, believe that | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
the partisanship of many Western media narratives, that's an exact | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
propaganda phrase coming out of the Syrian regime, Western media | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
narratives. The Western media is reporting barrel bombs and it is | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
reporting the beheading of Isis, where it can. And with great | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
difficulty and many journalists have lost their lives in Syria. Agree. I | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
have lost a colleague in Syria and you come back, spouting propaganda | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
lines from a dictator? With great respect. We risked our lives to | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
listen to the people. To hear the people. We met two of the ministers | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
in opposition, not just President Assad. We met two opposition | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
ministers and they are deeply concerned about the British | :36:50. | :36:51. | |
Government's commitment to regime change. It'll be another Iraq. It is | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
already. It'll be another one without re cystence. It is worse. It | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
is worse for the people as it is now. They want a peaceful | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
resolution. We tried to be their voices, we risked our lives to | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
listen to their voices. You had seen Mr Assad. I shouldn't think your | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
life is as much at risk than the people you are talking B it seems to | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
come close to the ter trif useful idiots -- territory of. We didn't | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
need to send an all-party group to listen to their concerns. Didn't it | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
occur to you that this image, or indeed the Russian story which I | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
notice isn't pryer advertised in your support. It seems an extremely | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
foolhardy mission. With great respect, there is some security but | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
anyone could be hilt by a missile. We responded to invitations from the | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
grand mufti, and the Christian leaders to go and hear their | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
interpretation of events. We went to listen. It is about how you go and | :37:52. | :38:00. | |
what you bring back. Allowing an photo, in official gargs, there is | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
nothing wrong with talking to empoo, Tony Benn met Saddam Hussein, and | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
opening up a diplomatic route is useful however allowing a photocall | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
which looks like Western religious leaders support Assad is a major | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
propaganda own goal and secondly to come back and talk about Assad as a | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
way of partnering solution, there is no solution that is meanfulful will | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
that involves him. He has to g first helping to move Isis, and a | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
transition period but there is know way Syria can survive with Assad. He | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
has to go. I'll hold auto out, I was quite tough with the Baroness in my | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
interview, and of course both of you don't agree, so it is only fair that | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
I give Caroline the final word on this. We wanted to meet the people | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
of Syria. We were invited by our own leaders, civilian leaders. We spent | :38:53. | :38:54. | |
five days in very dangerous places, with the people on the ground, and | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
we were in Aleppo when a university was bombed. We met the "ordinary" | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
people. We want to be their Is vo. What comes through, as you said it | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
is difficult for the media to get there and meet the people. It is | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
very dangerous. We did risk our lifts but we were prepared to do | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
that to be the voice of the people who invited us. I wish more people | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
would go and be their voice. Everyone hears what Assad says. We | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
want it hear what the people say and the people's concern is they do not | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
be want regime change brought by the outside world. They want to develop | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
and vote for their own future, their freedom. Thank you for letting me be | :39:29. | :39:36. | |
their voice. We are glad you made it back. | :39:37. | :39:37. | |
In Scotland the SNP government has run into trouble with its plans | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
for a "named person" scheme, which would assign a specific person | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
who isn't their parent to every child under the age of 18 | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
who would have responsibility for their welfare. | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
The idea behind the scheme is to protect vulnerable children | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
from abuse and neglect but critics say it's an intrusion | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
Earlier in the summer, implementation of the scheme | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
was halted when the Supreme Court ruled that plans for data | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
-- the Supreme Court fted United Kingdom. Or at least not compliant | :40:05. | :40:15. | |
with the European Court of Human Rights. | :40:16. | :40:16. | |
Yesterday Scotland's Deputy First Minister, John Swinney, | :40:17. | :40:17. | |
confirmed the SNP is still committed to the scheme but wants to delay | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
That was met with criticism from opposition politicians. | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
For the avoidance of any doubt, the government remains | :40:24. | :40:31. | |
absolutely committed to the Named Persons service. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
For that reason, the Scottish government will undertake | :40:36. | :40:37. | |
a three-month period of intense engagement in Scotland. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
We will take input from practitioners, as well as parents, | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
charities, as well as young people, those who support the Named Persons | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
policy, and those who have concerns about it. | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
The court stated that, even after the information sharing | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
provisions are sorted out, the Named Persons scheme | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
is still in danger of constituting a disproportionate, and therefore | :40:58. | :40:59. | |
an unlawful, interference with family life. | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
It seems absurd, given that a 16-year-old can vote, marry, | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
To remove them would be a strong signal that, while the government | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
is not surrendering the Named Persons policy, | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
it is listening, and not only to the Supreme Court. | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
We did ask the SNP for an interview, but no one from the Scottish | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
We've been joined from Glasgow by the Scottish Conservatives' | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now, the Supreme Court ruled in certain | :41:36. | :41:46. | |
areas that if they want to proceed this had to be changed. John Swinney | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
is now making the changes to comply with the Supreme Court ruling. He's | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
listening to concerns. He has delayed the introduction and's not | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
going to do it before the summer. Isn't that how you would expect a | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
responsible government to act? No, actually, because he hasn't been | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
listening at all previously and the real problem from yesterday was that | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
he told councils to continue developing and implementing the | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
policy at the same time as there are clear problems about its | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
implementation. So we have grave concerns, specifically for those | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
councils that have been piloting this scheme before, and who have | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
been sharing data with the professionals, sometimes against the | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
consent of parents, and that is something that has been ruled | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
unlawful by the Supreme Court. So there is a major issue here. But, | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
less than two miles to the east, behind you, in Glasgow, is some of | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
the worst deprivation and child deprivation in Europe. Not just in | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
Britain. In Europe. What is wrong with the state of appointing someone | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
to try to keep these kids who often have inadequate parents, patients | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
who have never had a job, often been on drugs. What is wrong with the | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
state trying to appoint someone to look after these kids a bit better | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
and maybe even give them a hand up? Well there are two problems wrong | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
with the policy. Of course the intention is to try to help those | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
families who particularly need it, and great problem with this policy | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
is that it has been rolled out on a universal basis. Thereby taking away | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
a lot of the resources which are greatly needed for the families that | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
you have just mentioned and, you know, I think to spend a lot of | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
money on families where there weren't problems, I don't think | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
that's responsible government. But the second issue about this is that | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
we are in a situation where the implication is that the state knows | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
better than the parent how to bring up the child. That is what has got | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
this policy. In some cases that may be true, of course. I don't accept | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
that, Andrew. I think one of the reasons why the Scottish public has | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
turned so firmly against this policy is for that very reason. It has had | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
this undertone that the state knows better than the family. There are | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
very good laws already, about how we conduct child protection, for | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
example, the data protection laws seem to be relatively satisfactory | :44:19. | :44:28. | |
in this country. Barnardo's, a famous children'ser charity that | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
everyone has respect for, they are in favour of this. They think | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
helicopter' help and they accuse opponents like you - the charity not | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
the Scottish Government - of inadequate and unjustified | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
statement. They, the people who have to deal with the vulnerable | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
children, think this will help. Precisely because it is the | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
vulnerable children that these charnts and many other beyond | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
Barnardo's, gave favourable responses to the policy. The | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
difficulty is that the vast majority of parents and many practitioners, | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
in fact an increasing number of practitioners across Scotland, their | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
caseload has increased because it is a universal policy and therefore, | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
they feel they are letting down many of the children that we most need to | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
help. I'll bring in Matt Forde. I understand that you quite like this | :45:17. | :45:18. | |
policy. I think it is a good idea completely | :45:19. | :45:31. | |
disagree. We know that there are cases that the state doesn't know | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
any better what to do the job than the parent. Poor children, through | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
no open but only -- brought up not only in poverty but with | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
dysfunctional families. The state is operating on the behalf of society | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
as it is when the police or an alert is called. It reminds me of Gordon | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
Brown idea that never came to a fruition, which is if those centres | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
for young parents. They were seen as truck only on and I had issues with | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
them but on some level, if we as a society continue to allow children | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
to be brought up not only in poverty but in chaos with no help | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
whatsoever, not effective how, then we are all failing. I will come back | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
to you, but what is your take on this? It is a perfectly sensible, | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
thoughtful policy, it should have been a nudge policy, one that people | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
will nudge towards doing. The attempt to make it legally binding, | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
and the argument in Scotland is the problem, why do you have a policy | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
clearly targeted on families who are in some trouble, which is then | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
imposed on absolutely everyone? You can sue them why there is a push | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
back that says the state is too active here, and indeed what would | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
be the liabilities, what are the clear responsibilities of this | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
person? It all gets a bit vague. A final point to you, from the | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
Highlands, from Mr Alexander, who is head of learning and care at the | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
Highland Council, they have been implementing this policy I | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
understand from 2009. He says we have fewer children being reported | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
to the children's reporter, we have fewer children offending, what is | :47:16. | :47:24. | |
wrong with that? That is good, but the policy that Mr Alexander has | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
implemented very successfully is largely to do with the way in which | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
the services in the Highland are structured, different from many | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
other local authorities, and I think his only to ship has been very | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
successful. But the actual policy that has been implemented was not | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
ecstatically what the Scottish Government was my policy was going | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
to be, had it been introduced on the 31st of August. There are serious | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
differences between that, and the real problem for many people in | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
Scotland is that this policy does not have the trust of the public. It | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
does not have the trust of many of the practitioners, and that is | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
Scottish Government has got itself into difficulty. Thank you for | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
joining us. Today would have been the day | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
we found out who was the new leader of Conservative Party, if only | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
Andrea Leadsom hadn't pulled out. We would have had more leadership | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
races. If you're disappointed you missed | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
out on a leadership battle, fear not, because Ukip are also | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
balloting for a new leader. The front runner Diane James seems | :48:24. | :48:25. | |
so confident, she hasn't been taking part in any of the hustings | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
organised over the summer. Our Ellie has been | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
meeting the candidates. Hello and welcome to this Daily | :48:33. | :48:47. | |
Politics who is going to be the next leader of Ukip special. We meet the | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
candidates wanting to follow in those very big footsteps of Nigel | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
Farage. Now we could have come to the various hustings events that | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
were being held over the summer, but where's the fun in that, plus we | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
miss them, so instead the leadership hopefuls had finally come to us. | :49:04. | :49:12. | |
Please welcome Lisa Duffy. Bill Etheridge. Lewis Jones. Philip | :49:13. | :49:24. | |
Walton. And Diane James. And Diane James. This really is like a Ukip | :49:25. | :49:34. | |
hustings. First question to all the candidates, who are you? I am Lisa | :49:35. | :49:43. | |
Duffy, I have been a part of Ukip at. I am somebody that really | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
champions the people, I have built the high election is up to our party | :49:50. | :49:57. | |
and put Ukip on the map from a by-election and Weekley I am a | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
long-standing member of Ukip. I have contested about 11 elections and | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
been involved in a number of campaigns, ranging from female | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
circumcision to saving a local art deco cinema. I did 20 years in the | :50:12. | :50:21. | |
still trade before losing my job in Gordon Brown's recession, I have | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
strong opinions, strong views, pretty radical but also done to her. | :50:26. | :50:36. | |
I am Philip Broughton. I work in a supermarket. I have real life | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
experience as well as political experience. What is your vision to | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
Ukip in three words? Friendship, unity success. Three words, team, | :50:47. | :50:56. | |
challenge, leadership. Radical, alternative, political movement. I | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
believe this party has to stand for freedom, fairness and opportunity. | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
Who is your political hero? Ronald Reagan, a great communicator who do | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
things with a sense of humour but was also revolutionary and strong. | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
In this leadership campaign I am determined to win one to him. That | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
would be Boudicca, for having the courage to take on the Roman | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
Imperial Army three times, and when to stop fantastic. My other would be | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
the former leader of Singapore. Winston Churchill for defeating the | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
Nazis, one of the worst evils ever seen, and Nigel Farage forgetting | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
this country's freedom back in the referendum. Probably Winston | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
Churchill. A man of many talents, who had his own personal challenges | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
but he made a difference. He was not afraid to speak his mind and that is | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
what you will get from Lisa Duffy. If Ukip are a drink, what would it | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
be? Deceptively seductive but get you drunk. Ruby mild would be my | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
favourite, strong and powerful, lovely taste, smooth and make you | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
feel great. A very exciting fizzy drink. I think it is a fine red | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
wine, one that is maturing over time. We are a political party that | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
is 23 years old now and that bottle is ready to open an tekkers to the | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
next level. Still alcoholic, though? It is still alcoholic but I am not | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
an alcoholic drink to be fair expect that concludes this special. We will | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
find out the result at conference on Friday 16 September. To all the | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
candidates, thank you. We should say we invited Diane James | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
to take part, but she declined. We've been joined by Owen Bennett, | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
political reporter at the Huffington Post and author | :52:46. | :52:47. | |
of the book 'Following Farage'. The candidates, find people putting | :52:48. | :52:56. | |
up a great case, the one we have heard of of course was not there. | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
Two others we have heard of, Paul Nuttall and Steven Woolfe are not | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
even running. What is going on? Very good question. Paul Nuttall didn't | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
want to stand for family reasons, he has a young family and I think he | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
looked at all the work that was needed into going in to make Ukip | :53:15. | :53:22. | |
bedpost Brexit party and thought it was not him. Steven Woolfe did want | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
it but through a series of calamities and other errors he did | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
not manage to get his application in on time. Not a great job | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
application. If you are trying to run on a platform of competence, and | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
can't apply on time, it is not a good look. Diane James managed to | :53:40. | :53:50. | |
avoid all of the hustings, thank you for the exclusive Huffington Post | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
story we got. She is going to run it like a coronation. Because she think | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
she has got it? The Ukip voters who are voting will go to the hustings, | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
and all of the other candidates are there, just to keep bashing her | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
every time. There is a lot of Ukip people that think their future lies, | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
they have more opportunities now in the north of inland than they have | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
in the South. In other words, that Labour is more vulnerable to Ukip in | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
the north, voted heavily for Brexit, than the South, where there was some | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
evidence that previous Ukip voters have gone back to the Tories. But | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
Diane James is very southern, isn't she, do they not need a northern | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
candidate for this? Absolutely, one of her nicknames is queen of the | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
South, because she is seen as not going north of the Watford gap. When | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
the campaign kicked off she was in France. She had to get someone to | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
send in her application on her other half so there is the suggestion she | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
doesn't even want this job. If you go on her website and look for | :54:54. | :54:55. | |
reasons why she wants to stands, the first two are reason she doesn't | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
want to. I think you are completely right, it needed a strong Northern | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
voice to really take it on in those Labour heartland areas. Just | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
remember the membership was mainly in the south. What you get with a | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
lot of parties, the membership and the electorate, they are two | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
slightly different beasts. In a way it is quite amazing what is | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
happening to them, if it hadn't been to Ukip, there would not have been a | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
referendum, that is fair to say. There could still be post-referendum | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
opportunities for a party like Ukip, to kill early given the state of the | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
Labour Party and how well they did in the referendum in the north. They | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
did pretty well in the general election in the North too. But it | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
doesn't look like they are moving in a way that will capitalise on that, | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
it could be a big missed opportunity. It could be, but if you | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
look at that range of candidates, and we are all having a bit of fun. | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
It is a dream. Couple of years ago, these were grumpy men from the | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
south. Gin and tonics. In fairness to Ukip, you have the likely lad | :56:03. | :56:12. | |
from the north-east, we have quite a strong, feisty panel, a professional | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
woman, two quite strong women. If you put up a lot of other candidates | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
who run in other parties on the first time out, they don't look too | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
professional either. The Diane James thing I can't comment on. I think | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
they have got strength in depth but they need a figurehead whose | :56:31. | :56:32. | |
national and I would be very surprised if one day it is not | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
passed back to dear Rod Nigel Farage. Surely not? He has only | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
changed his mind three times. That was on the night of the referendum! | :56:41. | :56:48. | |
What is the future the Ukip? I agree that this is a missed opportunity. | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
What we are seeing is something that affects all parties, people look to | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
leaders and see how exhausting it is, the personal sacrifices | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
required, not just a lack of family life and friendship that the abuse | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
you get regardless of your political persuasion. What we are seeing is | :57:05. | :57:06. | |
the manifestation of what we're seeing elsewhere, the fact that Paul | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
Nuttall did not want it, Diane James effectually saying we do not want | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
it, and Nigel Farage, the exceptional level of energy he has, | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
it was all down to the fact that firstly he rebranded Ukip early | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
doors. People saw it as BNP like and his personality allowed him to | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
overcome that. His relentless bags of energy that very few people have. | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
Even when he falls out of a plane. Indy. It was an horrific injury. | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
Owen, roughly what you think the future of Ukip is? Positioning | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
itself as a patriotic working-class party in the north. It needs to find | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
another way of representing those northern class -- working-class | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
northern voters. Did you bring me a copy of the book? Yes, I thought you | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
had about five already. But they were all signed! Just time for the | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
quiz. The question was what George Osborne | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
policy has the Chancellor Philip c) Wearing a hi-viz | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
jacket everyday? So, Anne and Matt, what's | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
the correct answer? Northern powerhouse? Wrong. Wants | :58:14. | :58:26. | |
them to wear Hi-Vis jackets. That is not a policy! That was the policy to | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
make Mr Osborne Prime Minister, it didn't quite work in the end, so | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
there we have it. Can we see him up on the screen? There he is, Bob the | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
builder. Know we can't! UNC Mr Hammond like that. Special | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
Thanks to Matt, Anne and all my guests. | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :58:54. | :58:55. | |
Jo Co will be back here on BBC Two on Monday with more | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
in a brand-new BBC Two quiz show, Debatable, | :58:59. | :59:15. | |
where a team of celebrities put their debating skills to the test | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
to try to win their contestants pots of cash. | :59:20. | :59:22. |