Browse content similar to 12/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Theresa May's on a mission to bring back grammar schools. | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
The Government will publish a green paper on its plans this afternoon. | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
But it could be a tough ride for the new PM. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
Labour, the SNP and the Liberal Democrats oppose the plans. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
And many Tories don't like the idea either. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
And it's a year to the day since Jeremy Corbyn became leader | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
Let's hope he's celebrating in style. | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
He might not be if he's been reading the latest set of polls. | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
We hear from one academic who thinks many degress aren't worth | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
The Democratic Presidential nominee faces serious | :01:11. | :01:19. | |
questions over her health, after admitting she's | :01:20. | :01:20. | |
And with us for the duration - the Conservative MP Heidi Allan, | :01:21. | :01:38. | |
and the Labour MP and prominient Brexiter Gisela Stuart, | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
who this morning launched a new pressure group, | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
Change Britain, campaigning to make Brexit a success. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
The group has notable supporters, including the Foreign Secretary, | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
We can now say the decision taken to leave the EU... | :01:48. | :01:57. | |
On the 23rd of June, the people of this country voted | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
to leave the European Union and they voted for change. | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
But there were many people who also voted for Remain. | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
So it's absolutely vital that we work together, | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
Leavers and Remainers, as we seize the opportunities | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
that this country now has to forge a positive and exciting | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
new relationship, not just with the European Union, | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
Changing Britain and making it global again. | :02:23. | :02:34. | |
Boris Johnson. Welcome, ladies, to the programme. Why is Boris Johnson, | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
as Foreign Secretary, spearheading a Vote Leave pressure group? It is not | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
a pressure group for Vote Leave. It is an acknowledgement that this was | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
a hard-fought referendum. While the result was clear, 48% voted to | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
remain. But the decision has been made. It is a difficult task to work | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
out how we negotiate and get the best deal. Do you trust Theresa May | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
to do it? I do. She has not done anything so far to make me not trust | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
her. She's not really done anything, some might say? But we have to bring | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
both leave and remain voters together for the best interests of | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
the country. Is it appropriate for the Foreign Secretary to be part of | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
it? He is championing it, the main patrons are Robert Salisbury and | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
Maurice Glassman, so you have the political spectrum and you have both | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
leave and remain supporters. I would like to know where the Remainers | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
are. Would he reach out with somebody like Heidi Allen? Would you | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
join? No, because I think, and I understand, so emotive from both | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
sides, but we have to give the Prime Minister a chance. Everybody is | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
entitled to form their own opinions, but it is time for the Prime | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Minister, she set of the departments, she was meeting | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
European leaders, she is getting on with it. I don't think we need that | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
group yet. Looks as if the group does not trust the Government to do | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
what they said they would do? I don't know if it is about trust. My | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
sense is that it is about keeping the pressure on so that it never | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
relents and that Brexit is what we achieve. I don't believe for a | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
minute that she will go back on that, I think Theresa May is very | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
determined. If you feel you need to do it, fine. For me, I think it is | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
early to put that pressure on. Which Remainers have you got on board? We | :04:40. | :04:48. | |
have literally just started this. I am probably one of the last people | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
that have done negotiations across Whitehall with 27 European states, | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
when we were working on the European constitution. What I learned was | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
that even when you have a clear political direction, you do need a | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
platform where you can thrash out ideas. Government, you always expect | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
them to come out with perfectly formed policies. Currently, they are | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
saying, you know, we're working on this behind-the-scenes. We are | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
saying we can help you to work on those policies. Do you think that is | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
realistically going to happen, particularly when leaders of the | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
Vote Leave campaign have been asked to apologise for promising there | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
would be ?350 million of extra money for the NHS? You have been asked to | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
apologise by Labour colleagues. Will you apologise for that? To which I | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
say, unless we actually leave the European Union, there is nothing of | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
this we can do. We said that is the money we spend on the NHS, no, on | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
Brussels, we should fund the NHS. I said if it was my priority, I would | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
spend it on the NHS. Is it in your manifesto, in this group? This is | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
why it is not a pressure group or manifesto. You have a manifesto? We | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
have the key principles of what we thought people were looking for, the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
brakes of links between people and trade, links of supremacy of EU law. | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
The NHS pledge was at the heart of your message, wasn't it? It is a bit | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
surprisingly was not there? The NHS was the example, if you are spending | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
that kind of money and do not have control on what to do with it, I | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
would spend it on the NHS. It was about to take control of spending | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
decisions. Do you think these are was right, that the campaign is | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
over, there were many arguments about pledges and claims, money | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
being alleged the NHS, do think we need to move on from that? I do, | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
people have come away very wounded on both sides, people have been | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
tarred with a brush on the leave side that is not deserved. My word | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
of caution on this whole project, lobby group, those wounds, I don't | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
feel they have healed yet. It feels like whipping it up again before the | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
Prime Minister has had a chance to harmonise the country. I think she | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
is capable of doing that and I would be wary for that reason. You think | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
it is going to fuel division, rather than bringing people together? | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
Potentially, that would be my worry. She is the leader of the country, | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
calming and measured, she is the one to bring the sides back together | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
again. I worry this might rip it up. You may a fair point, what I would | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
add to that is that we have had large sections of Labour core voters | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
that voted to leave. They need their say and fair representation. You are | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
right to put the challenge to us, that we need to make sure we focus | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
on the healing process. It has to be a national decision. It was a | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
national decision to leave and the implimentation must represent the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
whole country. Come back and tell us how it is going on in terms of | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
recruiting remainers. It's a tough job being the presenter | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
of a political news programme - I should know - but yesterday, | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
Sky News' Dermot Murnaghan was given a particularly | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
hard time by one guest, At the end of the show, | :08:05. | :08:06. | |
Heidi and Gisela will give The government will put more flesh | :08:07. | :08:27. | |
on its grammar schools policy later today with a new green paper and | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
statement to MPs. Some councils are already reportedly making plans to | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
create new grammar school places. But there are big obstacles in the | :08:36. | :08:37. | |
way before the plans become reality. Education Secretary Justine Greening | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
will spell out her plans in more The Government wants to allow | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
all state schools in England to select pupils by academic ability | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
"in the right circumstances" ?50 million of new funding will also | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
be allocated to help existing The Sunday Times reported that five | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
councils are already considering taking | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
advantage of the changes - Thurrock, Kent, Bedfordshire, | :09:03. | :09:03. | |
Northamptonshire, and But opposition to the proposals | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
is already being voiced. Labour says the plans | :09:06. | :09:14. | |
will "entrench inequality". And even within the Conservative | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
Party, there is fierce opposition. Justine Greening's predecessor, | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
Nicky Morgan, said the plans would be, "At best, a distraction | :09:22. | :09:23. | |
from crucial reforms At worse, risk actively undermining | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
six years of progressive Let's talk now to our political | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
correspondent, Eleanor Garnier. Tell us about the Tory opposition. | :09:32. | :09:48. | |
With the majority that Theresa May has, there could be problems in the | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Commons? She can't afford to have too many unhappy Tories on the | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
backbenches. As well as Nicky Morgan, we heard from the chair of | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
the Education Select Committee, Neil Carmichael. He says there is no | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
compelling evidence that grammar schools help disadvantaged children | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
climb up that social ladder. He says he is becoming a little bit more | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
content with the plans. We have heard from Sarah Wollaston, another | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
senior Tory, chair of the health select committee, and Desmond | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
Swayne, who have both voiced concerns. There are reports over the | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
weekend that Patrick McLoughlin, the former Transport Secretary and now | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
chair of the Tories, of him saying a great debate on grammar schools | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
would not help. I am told he is now not just 100%, but 200% behind the | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
plans. In terms of a timetable, it is very difficult to say at the | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
moment exactly when these plans would come on board. But with the | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
opposition that exists, it is now, at this point, not definite it will | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
happen at all? That is exacting right. As you have reported, we have | :10:52. | :11:02. | |
councils already making plans. The changes will need legislation to get | :11:03. | :11:04. | |
through Parliament. We have already talked about opposition in the | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
Commons. Even if Theresa May manages to get some of the ideas through the | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
Commons, she will have a difficult time in House of Lords whether | :11:10. | :11:11. | |
Government does not have a majority. We have had warnings from people | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
like Baroness Smith, the leader of Labour in the Lords, saying the | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
government does not have a mandate. It was not in the manifesto and it | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
will have a challenging time getting it to the House of Lords. Briefly, | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
what is pushing this? What is driving this for Theresa May? It's | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
interesting, I don't think there was a clamour of backbenchers banging on | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
her door to get the policy through. I think we should reflect on her own | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
experience at school. She went to a grammar school, as did one of her | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
key advisers, Nick Timothy, who has a lot of influence behind the scenes | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
at Number 10. Remember her Cabinet, 20 of her Cabinet went to state | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
school, around half a dozen of those were grammar schools. Remember what | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
she said on the steps of Downing Street, when she took office. I | :12:00. | :12:08. | |
think this is a appeal to them. She is saying, I am prepared to make a | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
stamp on this and be a little bit radical. Thank you very much. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
Joining us now is the Conservative MP Mark Field, who is in favour of | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
reintroducing grammar schools. Welcome to the Daily Politics. How | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
do you explain selective schools working for everybody? It is a | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
contradiction in terms, they don't. I think they do work for everybody. | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
I think it raises standards. The other thing to remember, and it goes | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
back to your previous discussion, we live in a different world today. We | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
have to compete internationally. One of the strengths of what Theresa May | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
is proposing is not a throwback to ideological battles within the | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
Conservative Party and beyond about grammar schools, heading back to the | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
60s... It was a big ideological battle. Was at the time, many of us | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
were involved at the time. A Labour council tried to close down my | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
school, and that made me a conservative from my teens. The real | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
issue is that we are in this very competitive labour world. Look at | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
China, the cultural passion they have for education. This is | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
something very important. What is key is not to luck at this simply as | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
an issue about grammar schools, she put a warning shot across the bow is | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
volley bowels of Independent schools, -- she got a warning shot | :13:28. | :13:38. | |
across the of this... Independent schools. The academically gifted | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
will have the opportunity of grammar schools more widely. You say they | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
work for everybody, because they raise standards. But the figures do | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
not bear that out. They show clearly that where there are grammar | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
schools, where there have been grammar schools, children on free | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
school meals perform less well than in areas where there are not grammar | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
schools. Not only does it select only a few people that have the | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
benefit, it disadvantages those who do not go. Hang on, the difficulty | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
is, there are relatively few grammar schools left, mainly in leafy | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
middle-class suburbs. But they don't work. The sort of seat I represent | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
in central London, where the Chinese and Bangladeshi population would | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
give their eye teeth to have the opportunity of grammar schools. | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Those schools were the first to be abolished. They did not have the | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
active parents able to preserve them, when the culture war to place. | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
Are you saying free schools and academies, championed by the | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
previous government matter have been a failure? Not at all. So why not | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
put resources into those? We are, it is not an entire change of | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
direction. What we want to give is the power for those in existing | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
grammar school in areas that want more places, partly because of | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
increased population, to be able to do so. Heidi Allen, are you going to | :15:06. | :15:07. | |
support this? I am not sure, I am looking forward | :15:08. | :15:17. | |
to hearing that the statement this afternoon. My gut instinct is, why | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
not? If you are bright, we should encourage the best children to learn | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
and I am glad about the technical college side of things because my | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
worst fear is those left behind. In my very high-tech, high science | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
constituency in South Cambridgeshire, we do not have | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
enough people learning the other jobs and my beer is we will end up | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
with grammar schools and everybody else falling by the wayside and that | :15:42. | :15:49. | |
there was a binary choice. Why does Theresa May think this is the answer | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
and not put the effort and resources into the technical challenges -- | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
technical colleges that have been championed by former Conservative | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Canada Baker? I do not know and I hope we will hear more later. I like | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
the model of technical colleges by Kenneth Baker. He is saying the one | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
gap in the reforms of the 1980s was part of the focus of the system. | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
What I am very positive about is there a sense of great meritocracy | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
and it is important in the world we live in and part of the post Brexit | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
debate that on the educational side, Theresa May is grabbing hold of | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
this. And it comes from the heart, it is very authentic, where she | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
stands and what she believes in. In the last 20 years, you have been | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
people pushing aside that they had privileged private education and | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
that has not been the authenticity we have seen from Theresa May and I | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
wish her the best. Is this a step forward towards social meritocracy | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
or a retrograde step? I am utterly puzzled, I am a Bermuda made -- | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
Birmingham MP where Tony Blair gave his education, education speech. You | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
have got the King Edward foundations in Birmingham and they have 25% of | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
their bursary places and they work with the local Academies and with | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
Birmingham University in one of their schools and there is a | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
reaching out. This is what is being proposed. Why pick this fight? | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
Technical colleges, did hate -- the debate is about the age of | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
transition because technical colleges take them at the age of 14 | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
and I think it is really important. Under the current structure, it will | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
be only the ones not comfortable in the schools. The proposals as I see | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
them is an answer to a question I cannot define. We have a shortage of | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
school places in the West Midlands, 45,000 missing, and what needs to be | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
done, but expansion of grammar schools? If you live in Edgbaston or | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
Harborne and you are well off, you can also sign a check and why should | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
the best education be exclusively in the preserve of those well off? | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
People will argue it will still be the preserve of those who can afford | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
to pay for expensive tuition and the problem is we have seen an increase | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
in tuition privately at home of children going to all sorts of | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
schools, it is very expensive and there will be a race to get their | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
children in the fire expensive tuition at home which most will not | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
be able to afford. -- via. Some people, any system... For my own | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
experience, I assure you everybody who can afford it does it and they | :18:38. | :18:47. | |
get ahead! That is what happens. I want to see a sense of the reasons | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
and excellence at the core of our education system. Applying in an | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
academic sense and non-academic sense, we need it to succeed in the | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
21st century in this very competitive world. Was there a | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
climber from MPs for this to happen? It was not in the manifesto which is | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
why the opposition will say, we will not support it. It was not that but | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
there is an element, I am glad we have Prime Minister with guts but at | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
the same time, our teachers in schools have yet again just gone | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
through the most amazing amount of change, they are exhausted. We | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
cannot recruit, we do not have enough teachers, we are losing them | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
quickly. I've be a more change will put more pressure on the system and | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
I would rather see the effort and energy and money put into getting | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
the fair funding great because yet again that has been shelved and | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
should have come first. As I say, you should not overestimate just how | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
many schools will go down the grammar schools but it gives an | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
option for parents. This will take time, but we need to get our best | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
selective education right. I am in favour of what has been proposed. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
This issue of mandate. It is a bit rich to see somebody like Nick Clegg | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
going on about mandate. Who ever would have voted for the coalition? | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
He had five years in office and too many of our problems economic league | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
were parked and not solved by the coalition. -- economically. You do | :20:16. | :20:23. | |
not think that is a problem at all? I really do not. Do you think it | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
will get through? Will the House of Lords close this down? They will use | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
the argument. They can start down that route. I think it would be very | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
foolish of them to do that. It is right to examine in full what is | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
being proposed. The fact we are looking at Independent and faith | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
schools and technical schools, it will be as a package and it is | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
something that is part of a heartfelt feeling from Theresa May | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
that she is passionate about having a great meritocracy not just for | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
this generation but for many years to come. Thank you very much. | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
Now, let's talk about Hilary Clinton. | :21:05. | :21:05. | |
The Democratic Presidential Candidate has cancelled | :21:06. | :21:07. | |
a campaign trip to California, after her doctor announced that she | :21:08. | :21:09. | |
At an event in New York yesterday, Mrs Clinton left early | :21:10. | :21:19. | |
and was filmed collapsing as she was about to | :21:20. | :21:21. | |
She's been told to rest and is being treated | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
You can see footage taken as Mrs Clinton was leaving a memorial event | :21:25. | :21:36. | |
yesterday in New York, she fell ill during the event. You can see her | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
here being helped and she stumbles at that point and has security | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
staff, apparently she fainted where she fell, and security staff has to | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
help her into the vehicle. Her team said she overheated and she was | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
feeling much better soon after. But how big an issue could this be for | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
Hillary's campaign? Andrews, from Republicans Overseas, | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
and journalist Michael Goldfarb. Is it going to be very damaging when | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
the Americans are obsessed with the health of presidents and nominees? | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
Not for very long unless something is going on there. Sometimes a cigar | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
is just a cigar and walking pneumonia is just walking pneumonia. | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
This comes after a prolonged period of attack by Trump surrogates as he | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
tries to call himself back out of the pit he dug for himself out of | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
his own convention by saying Hillary is hiding a health secret. And then | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
we have just seen the pictures. The seed is planted. Will people pay | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
attention? I don't know. The way this campaign is going, the subject | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
changes every couple of days and Donald Trump is perfectly capable of | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
changing it himself by saying something absolutely outrageous. | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
What is interesting, that report staff holding back his hands from | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
hitting the keyboard to write something totally inappropriate. I | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
believe that, it is amazing to see him so quiet! But white, but wise. | :23:08. | :23:16. | |
Especially after yesterday her media time -- her media team said she was | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
feeling better and a couple of hours later, she has walking pneumonia. It | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
fitted the rhetoric she is not transparent and not being honest and | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
it follows the e-mail scandals and her connections between the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
foundation and the State Department. Once again voters reminded Clinton | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
is not telling the truth. Is that not a media narrative she is not | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
transparent about her health, or in general? It is a Hillary Clinton | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
narrative from her e-mails to the front pages of papers and from her | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
media team that is not the full truth. Once again, voters reminded | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
they are not hearing the full story. Without making it partisan, | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
transparency cuts both. I'd do buy into the fact this is a media | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
narrative. And she plays the game. If you ask Donald Trump, show your | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
tax returns as every presidential candidate for decades has done and | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
he deflects it with an outrageous comment. The problem with Hillary | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
Linton goes back to the beginning of her being a public figure 25 years | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
ago when Bill Clinton was running for President -- Clinton. In some | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
ways, the Queen always says, never complain, never explain. She has got | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
the second half of that phrase, she never explains, she is cornered. She | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
does not want to. Will she be forced to change tactics? If this is on the | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
news cycle rightly or wrongly every day until the debates or until they | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
can comfortably say, her team, she is over it, that is going to remain | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
in the minds of voters. It probably will, but then again, I come back to | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
the point about Donald Trump and his tax returns. People want to see it | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
and it is important because... But why should that openness and | :25:05. | :25:06. | |
transparency not be foisted upon Donald Trump in the same way? It | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
should be but none of us could say the media in America and | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
international media have not probed into Donald Trump, he has been the | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
topic of almost every conversation and it has not been flattering. | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
People do want to see his records and they showed, but they literally | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
saw on video over and over Clinton struggling to get into that car and | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
the image will play with voters rightly or wrongly and it will be | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
politically damaging. What was your reaction when you saw the footage? | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
When I was campaigning, I got a really sore throat and I felt | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
rubbish because I was tired. So you think this is a mountain out of a | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
mole hill? To be fair, I am not American and I do not understand the | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
American psyche and how they might interpret it but in this country, we | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
might think, they are working hard, they are exhausted, that might be a | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
good thing. I am safe to say you are not 69, she is a bit older and | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
running for the top job. Should more scrutiny not be placed on whether | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
she is up to it physically? Not really, the woman is just exhausted, | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
that simple. What did you think? Being 60, I kind of know that you | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
get a bit more exhausted. But I was thinking, look at the post-World War | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
II figures, Churchill, the goal, they were well beyond 69. -- General | :26:29. | :26:37. | |
De Gaulle. But she has been working extremely hard and I could not keep | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
up that pace. She was in the air for the five-year she was Secretary of | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
State. In the air hovering over us. She is obviously a beast for work. | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
And my guess is that having stored in heavy woollen suits in the middle | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
of September in a synagogue in New York as a boy and wishing I could go | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
to sleep, she is in a very heavy suit, in a warm morning on a 9-11 | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
memorial and already under the weather, trust me, it could go the | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
wrong way very quickly. This is an e-mail from the Trump team, Donald | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
Trump says he hopes she gets well soon and gets back on the Trail. He | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
does not think they will replace her with somebody else, he has had a | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
physical and will release his details soon but he does think it is | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
an issue. Surprisingly! The biggest problem Hillary has is he has said | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
for a long time her health issues are worse than what we saw and this | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
feeds into this, whether it is true or not, that the establishment is | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
protecting Hillary Clinton. I wish her well, it sounds like she was | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
overheated and she has pneumonia and that is terrible, I am sure she will | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
recover. The biggest issue is why the American people, after seeing | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
that footage, did not hear immediately about the root cause of | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
the problem and it reiterates they are not being told the full truth. | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
That is not about her health but the narrative around it. In two weeks, | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
it is the debates, will that be the focus and this will be put behind | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
them? If Donald Trump has not said something in the last five days to | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
change the conversation. In two weeks, that will be the moment. | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
Because there will be side-by-side. It Donald Trump appears in a certain | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
way presidential, that will be but a goal for him. Everybody knows she | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
has the competence to do the job but the question is... Some of us | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
seriously doubt that, actually! Very briefly, what happens if she does | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
drop out and is not able to continue, there is no protocol? No, | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
we had the same conversation three weeks ago about Donald Trump when he | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
was cratering in the polls. I don't know what happens and it is not | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
worth speculating on because it is not going to happen. Both of you, | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
thank you. Only a more weeks of this! | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
Now let's look at what else is coming up in | :29:00. | :29:01. | |
As we've been hearing, this afternoon, Education Secretary | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
Justine Greening will make a statement setting out | :29:05. | :29:06. | |
the Government's proposals on grammar schools in Parliament. | :29:07. | :29:08. | |
Tomorrow sees the Second Reading of the Digital Economy Bill, | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
the first major outing for the new Culture | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
Wednesday will see Theresa May debating with Jeremy Corbyn | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
at Prime Minister's Questions, in their weekly head-to-head. | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
On Thursday, the Bank of England will announce its latest | :29:19. | :29:20. | |
The Bank's Monetary Policy Committee cut rates to a historic low of 0.25% | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
And on Friday, the new leader of UKIP will be announced | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
at the party's conference in Bournemouth. | :29:34. | :29:35. | |
The bookies' favourite is UKIP's Deputy Chair, | :29:36. | :29:37. | |
We're joined now from College Green by Laura Hughes, | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
from the Daily Telegraph, and George Eaton, the Political | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
Laura, what do you think the motivation is for Theresa May | :29:46. | :30:00. | |
pressing ahead with grammar schools? We have a party conference | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
approaching and it is a clever move, it is incredibly popular amongst | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
grassroots. She is making a clear break from David Cameron, under whom | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
they felt a little bit unloved. We still have questions about Brexit, | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
people are asking what it means in terms of access to the single | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
market. It is something grassroots can unite around. It is pretty | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
popular amongst most Tory MPs. A few are unhappy, but it is quite clever | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
in the run-up to conference season. Listening to Laura saying it is | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
going to be popular with grassroots, can she deliver it through the | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
system, parliamentary system? In the Commons, it will be quite tight | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
because she has a working majority of just 16. Nicky Morgan has already | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
come out against the proposals. The Conservative chair of the Education | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
Select Committee sounded quite sceptical. She should be reassured | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
that Michael Gove has signalled he will not oppose the move. He could | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
have spearheaded a revolt. The real problem is potentially the Lords, | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
where the Conservatives have no majority. The Lords, traditionally, | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
respects items that were included in manifestos, but the Conservative | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
manifesto in 2015 made no mention of new grammar schools. This is why | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
Theresa May is advancing quite cautiously on this. They have gone | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
for a Green paper first, quite a contrast with 9010, when Michael | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
Gove ramrod had the academies act through Parliament. | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
The strikes are still planned to go ahead in October, the junior | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
doctors, is this something Theresa May is just going to let Jeremy Hunt | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
continue with, the tact he has taken up until now? She was very quick to | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
come out and defend Jeremy Hunt, she accused junior doctors and the BMA | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
of playing politics. She was quite harsh, quite immediately. Theresa | :31:53. | :32:00. | |
May totals about the social reform agenda. A lot of union members might | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
be interested in what she has to say. If she is clever, she will try | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
to appeal to them. They are really worried about Brexit and that is | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
something they can talk about. David Cameron, during the referendum | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
campaign, reached out and spoke with union leaders, pretty unprecedented, | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
and said, right, we will relax a few bits you are worried about if you | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
get a bit of money towards the EU referendum campaign. I think it | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
proves that Tory leaders can work with union leaders. There are union | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
leaders that I worried about Jeremy Corbyn, worried about his policy on | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
Trident. Theresa May would be, it would be inherent rests to show she | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
was taking a different direction from the previous government. Is | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
this an opportunity, in the week of the TUC, to try to build bridges | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
with unions, including the BMA? Absolutely, it is something David | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
Cameron made an attempt to do at the start of his leadership. She made | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
proposals that are quite union friendly, such as employee | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
representation on company boards, more shareholder control of | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
executive pay. With the NHS, the big question, as it often is for | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
governments, is where is the extra money coming from? The service is | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
making it clear it need significantly more money, just to | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
maintain services at the level that the public expect, let alone moving | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
towards a new seven-day service. That is something the Chancellor, | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
Philip Hammond, will have to address in the Autumn Statement, which we | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
now know will be at the end of November. Briefly, from both of you, | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
it is a year since Jeremy Corbyn became leader and the poll ratings | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
are pretty disastrous. What do you think in terms of looking at? This | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
is a one-year anniversary for Jeremy Corbyn, and he is not popular, 11 | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
points behind the Conservatives, the worst result for a Labour Leader a | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
year after they were elected. But we were | :33:50. | :34:10. | |
looking at the leadership election and I think is going to win that, | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
really popular amongst the grassroots of the Labour Party and, | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
for him, right now, that is what matters. Absolutely, there was one | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
election he was focused on, the Labour leadership election. The | :34:19. | :34:20. | |
indicators are that he will win by as much as he did last time, perhaps | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
even a bigger margin. A lot of Labour members do not blame Jeremy | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
Corbyn for his popularity, they blame the MPs that launched a coup | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
against him, who they now want to unite behind, the leader. | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
Yes, that's right, the political conference season. | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
The Trade Union Congress getting underway in Brighton today. | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady has been addressing | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
delegates at the conference this morning, calling | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
on the new Prime Minister, Theresa May, to ensure rights | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
for workers are protected in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations. | :34:46. | :34:47. | |
We can speak to Frances O'Grady now from the conference. | :34:48. | :34:57. | |
Hello. Hello. You talked about sports direct and zero hour | :34:58. | :35:06. | |
contracts in your speech this morning. You also pledged that trade | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
unions will shine a light on shady businesses that treat workers like | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
animals. Were you thinking of any particular? Well, I certainly was. I | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
think the important thing to know is that sports director is not the only | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
one. We have seen a pretty good victory for Unite, the union | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
organising their and the combined union power in that shareholder | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
meeting. But it is not just about sports direct. We know that zero | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
hours has spread all over the country. It has risen by a fifth. | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
Nearly 1 million workers on contracts now. It goes beyond zero | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
hour contracts. We have too many employers using sham | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
self-employment, as we have seen at Uber and Hermes, where it is just a | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
way of getting around having to give workers' rights like respite and | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
sick pay that they deserve. I have given notice to those companies that | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
do treat workers badly that we're not going to stop at Sports Direct. | :36:11. | :36:22. | |
The new Prime Minister has proposed putting workers on boards. Do you | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
see Theresa May as an ally in your campaign for better rights for | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
workers? I was very clear today that if Theresa May wants to have genuine | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
elections so that we see workers on boards, then we will support that | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
because it is something that the TUC and unions have long campaigned for. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
That is something the public want. We want to see some common sense and | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
reality in the boardroom, and maybe tackle some of that top pay problem | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
as well. What about comments by Liam Fox, the international trade | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
Secretary, reporting to say that too many British businesses are fat and | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
lazy. Do you agree with him? I guess I think he is not a great sales wrap | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
for Britain if he is going around the world saying that at a time when | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
he is supposed to be exploring trade deals. I think we need to be serious | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
about this. Is he right? Now that the election, the referendum | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
campaign is over, I think everybody needs to come down off their | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
soapbox, roll up their sleeves and try to get the best deal for | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
Britain. The best deal for British workers. Let's be clear, working | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
people still have not recovered from the financial crash. Brexit | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
introduces uncertainty, we want the Government to make sure that unions | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
are at the table alongside business to get workers and Britain the best | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
deal we can. Let's talk about Brexit and a deal that is going to be done | :37:46. | :37:53. | |
by the Government. You believe it would be best for the economy if we | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
remain members of the single market. Do you think the benefits of single | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
market membership are worth it if it also means the country has to | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
sacrifice of the things you are campaigning for, like state aid for | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
industries, like the steel industry, or rail nationalisation? I think we | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
are all keen on bringing the railways back into public control. | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
But you wouldn't be able to as a member of the single market. You | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
would not be able to, that would be in breach of EU competition laws if | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
we were members of the single market. We would then be put aside? | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
I'm afraid that it EU competition laws were often used as a very | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
convenient excuse by Westminster governments to do things they didn't | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
want to do anyway. We have often heard Brussels blamed, for example, | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
about Chinese steel, when in fact it was the UK Government that was | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
blocking the tariffs that we wanted to see to stop the dumping of cheap | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Chinese steel. What about state aid? If you are not allowed to give state | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
money to prop up industries like steel, which he would not be able to | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
under EU laws as they stand, you would be prevented from doing some | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
of the things you want? I think you only have to look at Germany, France | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
and Italy to see that state money does go to support industries when | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
governments have the will to do it. We were looking for the same from | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
Westminster. I think the serious point here is that we know a lot of | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
good jobs, people's rights depend on that good relationship with the EU. | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
A lot of exports go to the EU, in manufacturing. We need to get all of | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
this, get a bit sensible about how we get a fair deal. In my experience | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
as a negotiator, that requires some give and take from both sides. Thank | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
you very much. Briefly, Gisela Stuart Cullen she wants a fair deal, | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
but wants to remain, a member of the single market? This is an example, | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
the organisation like Change Britain, we can bring together the | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
points, the fear of what the trade-offs are, and break the link | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
that was at the core of the Leave the vote. He break the link between | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
trade and people. It's a year to the day | :40:13. | :40:13. | |
since Jeremy Corbyn was elected Doesn't time fly when | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
you're having fun? It's fair to say he's had | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
an eventful 12 months. Here's our Adam, indulging | :40:21. | :40:22. | |
in a spot of nostagligia. MUSIC: "Lust for Life" | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
by Iggy Pop. We need to be investing in skills, | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
investing in our young people. So, I sent out an e-mail | :40:30. | :40:41. | |
to thousands of people and asked them what questions they would | :40:42. | :40:54. | |
like to put to the Prime Minister. Choose victory in numerous | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
by-elections, mayoral and council elections, | :40:58. | :40:59. | |
which you celebrate We were getting predictions | :41:00. | :41:00. | |
that Labour was going To assist Comrade Osborne | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
in his dealings with his new-found comrades, I have brought him along | :41:06. | :41:15. | |
Mao's Little Red Book. I feel I served in | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
the best way I can. Thank you to UB40 for | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
this incredible endorsement. However busy I am, my | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
allotment is tended. Had them the other night, | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
a lovely bean soup. Just be careful when | :41:36. | :41:43. | |
you go trainspotting. Well, joining us to reflect | :41:44. | :42:03. | |
on Jeremy Corbyn's first year is Sam Tarry, director | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
of his leadership campaign, and Frances O'Grady is still | :42:08. | :42:09. | |
with us from Brighton. What would you say is his biggest | :42:10. | :42:19. | |
achievement? Some of the U-turns he has forced out of the government, | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
personal independence payments, Iain Duncan Smith, the fact he was not | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
able to remove the prerequisite of having income as a definition of | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
poverty was incredibly important. You think has presided over a period | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
where Labour has formed a justifiably strong opposition? It | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
can obviously be improved, but quite clearly, for me, there has been | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
dramatic change in British politics and he is at the head of that. Would | :42:46. | :42:54. | |
you agree, Gisela? Where we have taken our eye off the ball is the | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
clear determination that whatever your values, unless you are | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
transforming a Government, you cannot translate it into practice. | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
That will be the challenge between MPs and members. Don't blame each | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
other, say we have a collective aim and to reflect our values we have to | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
do more than just that at Westminster. I agree, I can't wait | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
to get those MPs, having gone back to their constituencies, having seen | :43:18. | :43:26. | |
sense, the strength of feeling amongst the membership, to come back | :43:27. | :43:28. | |
on board and take the opposition to the Government. The constituents | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
deserve it more than anything else. Do think it was Labour MPs and | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
Jeremy Corbyn that got the U-turns, or was it down to Tory MPs? I am not | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
a natural bloater, I did find myself going PIP, tax credits, I think I | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
was involved in that. I like him, as a human being, he is showing a | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
different way to behave. When I became into politics, I was | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
determined not to behave in the old-fashioned ways, he said, she | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
said, I am not interested in that. But he has to be competent. He is | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
not leading his party and he needs to do that. Voters matter, not just | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
MPs and members. Frances O'Grady said that. Without them, you are | :44:10. | :44:18. | |
powerless. That is backed up by the polls, they are dramatic in terms of | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
support for Labour. They are 11 points behind conservatives. In | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
terms of favourability, he is 64 points behind Theresa May. They are | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
dreadful. The party had not been tearing itself apart, they would be | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
in a better position. You think is favourability would be better? | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
Jeremy was doing much better before the coup, nobody wants to vote for a | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
party where the majority of MPs or attacking the leader on a nonstop | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
basis. We want to put in place a programme, when Jeremy wins next | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
week, to ensure that we go into Government and we want the MPs back | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
on board to do that. Is it in fighting, or Jeremy Corbyn? The | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
infighting is a reflection that we have not got enough of a voice for | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
those people who have got the right to expect we represent them and | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
stand for them. You're quite right, after the leadership election, we | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
need to come together. Not talk to each other all the time, the Pope to | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
those that want to vote for us. That has to be a effort. -- it has to be | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
a joint effort. My politics are not where Jeremy is, Owen Smith promises | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
a second referendum and I think at that stage I look at the ballot | :45:35. | :45:36. | |
paper and scratch my head. You do not think Jeremy can lead, it | :45:37. | :45:46. | |
and Owen Smith, you disagree with him completely over Europe so | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
somewhere, you have to make a decision. Fortunately on this | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
occasion, my vote is only one among millions and whatever the decision | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
is, I will work with whoever gets elected. And what you say to MPs his | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
have voted no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, should they do the same? Now | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
that you have the second election, we need to work together. But that | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
puts the onus on the leader to make sure they are followers. It is wrong | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
to assume it is the responsibility of the followers to follow their | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
leader, it is the leader's responsibility to reach out and make | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
sure those people with them their followers. In trying gate, there was | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
a row whether there were seats on the train Jeremy Corbyn was sitting | :46:32. | :46:39. | |
on, was that a low point? I do not think so, he did well after that and | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
during the full course of time, that probably will come out. What is more | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
interesting is we are looking forward now to speaking to MPs and | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
saying we have to make this work, we have to make this work, we know the | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
constituents desperately want to make it work and now we need to look | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
forward to what can be in the manifesto? And how on Earth do we | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
use the 600,000 people and the fact the Labour Party has more money than | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
ever before to fight a general election? That is what we are | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
interested in. But it is not just about the members but the voters and | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
the parliamentary party. Has Jeremy Corbyn really succeeded in reaching | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
out to voters beyond the Labour Party membership? I think the | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
message on the economy, his message of reaching out to communities, the | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
communities I come from in East London that voted in large numbers | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
of baulk Brexit, we need to win the next election and we are more | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
prepared to listen to Jeremy. Why is it not translating in the polls, it | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
is going the other way? We have an inward facing contest and we have | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
not had chance to face outward. We are confident MPs will see sense and | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
come back on board as take that message of economic renewal to | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
communities who voted Brexit. In terms of the Shadow Cabinet | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
elections, the proposal voted on by the Labour MPs, whether it goes | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
ahead or not, would you like to see members electing people to the | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
Shadow Cabinet? All you have then it is you have slates being wrong and | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
you go back to the battles of the 1980s and the interest groups think | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
it is it delegation. I was elected to exercise my judgment on behalf of | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
my constituents and I have a responsibility to represent the | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
entire constituency as a Labour MP with those values. The real | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
difficulty is there is a perception there is a world inside the M25 | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
Circle and outside it and the challenge for the Labour Party is to | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
reach out to the sections outside and that is something the leader has | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
to take responsibility for. I am absolutely looking forward to doing | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
that, I believe his policies and strategy can reach out to those | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
communities beyond the M25, absolutely. Let's see! Thank you. | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
Economic enrichment, vocational training, | :48:59. | :49:00. | |
Professor Alison Wolf, who's also a cross-bencher peer, | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
thinks that our universities have become money machines, offering | :49:04. | :49:05. | |
It is an exciting time for many 18 and 19-year-olds. | :49:06. | :49:19. | |
New friends, new studies, living away from home. | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
They are also part of a mass enterprise. | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
More teenagers than ever before will start degrees this autumn. | :49:28. | :49:29. | |
Governments have expanded universities, year upon year, | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
selling a dream - not of learning, but of wealth. | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
That is what justifies the fees that students pay and the big loans | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
The Government wants even more students. | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
It thinks universities are engines of economic growth and so its new | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
Higher Education Bill for England makes it easier | :49:53. | :49:54. | |
Yet many graduates can't repay their loans, so that means | :49:55. | :50:02. | |
Once, universities recruited small numbers of academic high-performers. | :50:03. | :50:12. | |
Now, it's a competition to recruit students by the thousands. | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
Huge lecture theatres like this one define modern universities. | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
Yet degrees aren't magic wealth machines. | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
A third of today's graduates are in non-graduate jobs | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
and the graduates of some universities register no | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
their average wages are exactly the same as those of people | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
who did not go to university and who don't have student loans. | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
English 18-year-olds basically have two choices - | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
Other countries have technical tracks, shorter, cheaper | :50:51. | :50:59. | |
And she joins us now, you are an economic structure, you biting the | :51:00. | :51:16. | |
hand that feeds you? If I am, then hopefully, it is for a good reason. | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
The reality is that for a lot of people, at university does pay and | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
you learn a great deal. The problem we have in this country is we are | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
giving 18-year-old is remarkably little choice. Essentially, they | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
either have to go out into a harsh Labour market with more with more | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
and more graduates competing or they have to get into this | :51:38. | :51:50. | |
graduate Labour market and take on huge debts which we know many will | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
never be able to repay. Do you agree, Heidi Allan, with the point | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
in the film that if there is no wage premium for going to university, | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
what is the point? It depends what profession and create you want to go | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
into. Maybe earning is not what it is all about. When I went to | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
university, I was the first of my family to go and that was the | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
conversation you would have, anybody in your family on the university | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
yet? And it swung the other way you are nobody if you did not go to | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
university. We have been pushing it into degrees there is a worthless, | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
at universities with not rigorous standards and they go out | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
disappointed, and it has to change. Apprenticeships are part of that. | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
You say it has to change and there was more change, it could change, | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
but do you want to go back to the elite as time when very few clothes | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
-- very few kids from from the middle class went to university? Not | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
at all, I want a slot in the Private members Bill and I did not know what | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
to do with it! I try to get a Private Members' Bill through about | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
transparency on fees because it is a consumer think, you take on debt and | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
you want to know what to get from your money. Let's help youngsters | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
how many lectures, job prospects, what do I earn? Then people might | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
choose a different path. Was it wrong for Labour, especially under | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
Tony Blair, Gisela Stuart, to expand university education for everybody | :53:09. | :53:17. | |
in the way they wanted a quota of 50% or whatever you could go to go? | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
You will find the words 50% never crossed my lips for a very good | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
reason. Alison is one of my heroes. That report on apprenticeships was | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
so significant. You have a dual system, you have genuine | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
alternatives. It is not just big employers are employing the | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
workforce which anybody would do, you have a way to go at 18. That is | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
the bullet we still have not bitten. I have brilliant universities on my | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
patch, Birmingham University, but in some cities, we use universities | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
like regeneration for the city. We have lost that focus of the world of | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
work and education. If we take on bird -- if we take on board the idea | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
to produce more apprenticeships to offer something else to | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
18-year-olds, you have to say, you are not bright enough to go to | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
university, and they still want to go. You do not have to say that, you | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
say that you have an old -- and entitlement to a certain amount of | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
higher education and training, it is up to you what you take and when you | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
take it. All we offer now is the opportunity to go the ever expanding | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
universities to take a three-year degree and more and more debt. You | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
need is to open it up and followed pretty much every other European | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
country in providing high prestige, technical routes leading out at 18 | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
which we have consistently failed to do. What is the psychological | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
barrier to it? I think part of the problem is we destroyed | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
apprenticeships in this country in the 1970s and 1980s and we have | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
never really taken hold of this fact and made a serious efforts to put it | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
right. Peace -- people constantly say they believe in apprenticeships | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
and in purported vocational education and they spend more and | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
more money expanding more and more universities -- and in vocational. | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
And we are about to do it again. It looks as though the cost will go | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
back to the taxpayer are people going to university and even if they | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
do not earn more and do not always get a job, they cannot pay back the | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
loans and taxpayers will fund university education. That is the | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
real risk if we pushed to many in the University when it is not right. | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
Some of this is legacy and before we have had a chance to make reforms, | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
we have gone back to students who have educated themselves and that is | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
not a lot we can do other than help them find work that pays well. We | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
have to make apprenticeships sexy again. My father was so proud to be | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
an apprentice, it was great, that is what you did, and that has become | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
the poor relation. That is starting to change. Degree level | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
apprenticeships, people feel they can access prestige to a different | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
vocational way. Thank you very much. There's just time before we go | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was, who accused | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
Sky's Dermot Murnaghan of I am afraid it is MLE. In her | :56:05. | :56:20. | |
defence, I would not have known the Korean President either! -- Emily | :56:21. | :56:21. | |
Thornberry. This is the exchange. I just wonder, I mean, | :56:22. | :56:23. | |
have you called the French Foreign No, but they were in the process | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
of arranging for me to go Don't start pub-quizzing me, | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
Dermot. Well, he's the French Foreign | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
Minister, do you know his name? No, and I'm not going to start | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
answering your questions on this. What really...upsets me | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
about your attitude to me is that I don't remember you doing it | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
with anybody else, you know. And I certainly think that | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
sometimes, when it comes to sexism, some Sky presenters need to look | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
at themselves too. It really upsets me that every time | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
I come on here, you do Because you do not do it | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
with anybody else and I do think It's not, because you are | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
the Shadow Foreign Secretary. And this was about the French | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
Foreign Minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault. We have not got time for a quiz, you | :57:12. | :57:19. | |
will be pleased to know, was sexist? It was good banter but you should | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
never attacked the presenter. Whatever you tell me, I say yes! I | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
am delighted to hear that! I want that in writing and on the wall! Was | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
it sexist? Absolutely not, if you do not know the answer, you have been | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
caught out, except it and wash. Almost time to ask you, but I will | :57:38. | :57:39. | |
not! -- just accept it and blush. The One O'Clock News is starting | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
over on BBC One now. I am delighted I have not been | :57:44. | :57:53. | |
accused of being sexist and I would never be! | :57:54. | :57:53. | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
And the former Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan. | :57:58. | :58:20. | |
then the Court of Appeal aren't going to change their decision. | :58:21. | :58:24. |