Browse content similar to 13/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
David Cameron's leaving Parliament, and he may not be the only one. | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Plans to redraw constituencies across the UK and cut the number | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
of MPs means high profile figures - including Jeremy Corbyn | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
and George Osborne - could face a battle to find | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
Nicky Morgan is still an MP but she wasn't asked to stay | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
on as Education Secretary - we'll be asking her if Theresa May's | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
plans for new grammar schools make the grade. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Brexit Secretary David Davis is back in Government and he says it's | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
the sexiest part of politics - but is he planning on telling | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
The bar is low, I suppose! Will MPs see the appeal? | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
And after David Cameron resigns after 15 years as an MP, | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
we'll look at his first new job outside Parliament. | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the whole | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
of the programme today is the Conservative MP Nicky Morgan. | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
She was Education Secretary until Theresa May formed her | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
She's now returned to the backbenches, and she may | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
have lost the big office and the ministerial car, but she's | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
free to give her own opinion again and even appear on shows | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Welcome to the show, Nicky. | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
Let's begin today by talking about David Cameron. | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
You might remember him - he led Britain's first | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
coalition government since the Second World War, | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
and just last May he secured the first overall Conservative | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
But politics can be a cruel business, and he left Downing Street | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
in July after losing the EU referendum, something which may come | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
Despite saying that he would continue as the MP for Witney | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
in Oxfordshire after resigning from Number ten, yesterday he said | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
With modern politics, with the circumstances | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
of my resignation, it isn't really possible to be a proper backbench MP | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
I think everything you do will become a big distraction | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
and a big diversion from what the Government needs to do | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
And I support Theresa May, I think she's got off to a great start, | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
I think she can be a strong Prime Minister for our | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
country, and I don't want to be that distraction. | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
I want Witney to have a new MP who can play a full part | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
in Parliamentary and political life without being a distraction. | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
So he doesn't want to be a destruction. Are you sad to see him | :03:02. | :03:10. | |
go? Very sad. I think he has been a great leader of the Conservative | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
Party, he got us back into power, won the first majority fell over 20 | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
years just last year. I think it is very sad, but I also understand why | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
he has made this decision at this time. As you said, he won that | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
overall majority, but Ken Clarke said yesterday that he will be | :03:28. | :03:38. | |
remembered as the Prime Minister but accidentally, in his words, took the | :03:39. | :03:40. | |
UK out of the EU. That will overshadow everything else. I hope | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
not. I know that is what we are talking about, and we will be | :03:44. | :03:45. | |
talking about it later in the context the new Government, but I | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
think David Cameron achieve more than that. He is the only person I | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
could have kept the coalition government on the road, working with | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
the Lib Dems for the crucial five years to rebuild the economy. Things | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
like education and welfare reforms, which he has championed, history is | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
often kinder to former party leader 's son years after they leave | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
office, rather immediately. His difficulty really arose when leading | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
a Tory majority government. He said he wanted to stay on as an MP until | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
2020, was it just too difficult for him watching Theresa May excel his | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
supporters, like yourself, from Cabinet, then changing key policies | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
like reversing the ban on grammar schools and changing the decision on | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
Hinkley Point? It was such a strange period in July, it was so difficult | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
to make decisions about any of our futures. I suspect that coming back | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
last week, being back in the House of Commons and realising that | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
everything he said would be pored over, every nuance, did he agree | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
with the new Prime Minister, was there a split? That is a huge | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
pressure for somebody who was only 49, wants to get on with their life, | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
wants to be able to say what they think. I suspect that the | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
realisation dawned, actually, I will have to make a different decision. | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
And the key thing being that he wants to say his own decision, -- | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
and opinion, and he does not agree with these two key policies from | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
Theresa May? I'd have not spoken to him on these issues, but no doubt it | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
is a change from the party as he was leading it. I know he feels | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
passionately about the free schools movement. His last visit as Prime | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
Minister in July was to a free school set up in his time as brain | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
minister. He wants to speak up about free schools. Were you surprised | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
when he announced he would suddenly stand down? I think we were all | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
taken by surprise yesterday, that it happened yesterday. I don't think we | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
would have been surprised if it was in July, or perhaps in a couple of | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
months' time, but it coming back last week, for a lot of buzz, it was | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
the realisation that things would be really different. -- coming back | :06:00. | :06:10. | |
last week, for a lot of us. Gordon Brown did not really say | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
anything at all but he was therefore a number of years and had that | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
period of grace before leaving, shouldn't David Cameron have done | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
the same? People will decide based on personal circumstance and what | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
they feel. People have different ways. Ted Heath stayed and stayed | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
and stayed and probably slightly outstayed his welcome, Gordon Brown | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
did it a different way, John Major, Tony Blair did his last PMQs and | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
left Parliament. Everybody had to find their own way of doing these | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
things. David Cameron will have thought very long and hard and | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
clearly took the summer to think about what his next steps would be. | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
Time for him to write his memoirs! Now let's stick with David Cameron | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
for a moment, because he's also He'd no sooner stepped down as an MP | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
yesterday than it was announced B, new panellist on This | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
Week with Andrew Neil? Or D, Bailiff of the | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
Manor of Northstead? At the end of the show Nicky | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
will give us the correct answer. MPs and staff were pictured | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
queuing up in the Houses But they weren't all waiting to sign | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
David Cameron's leaving card - no, they were hoping to find out | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
details of a plan to redraw the boundaries of parliamentary | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
constituencies in England and Wales. It's all part of a Government plan | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
to equalise the number of people in each constituency, | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
and to cut the overall Constituency boundaries are reviewed | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
periodically to ensure every MP represents roughly | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
the same number of people. Legislation passed in 2011 means | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
that the number of MPs must be With a few exceptions | :07:43. | :07:52. | |
like the Isle of Wight, every seat will now have to have | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
around 74,000 voters. The independent Boundary Commissions | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
- one for each part of the UK - Their draft plans will see 32 | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
fewer constituencies Northern Ireland is | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
already due to lose one. Scotland is expected | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
to lose six constituencies. But redrawing the political map | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
is always controversial. According to one estimate, | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
if the 2015 votes had been cast under the proposed boundaries, | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
Labour would lose around 25 seats And the changes could see the seats | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
of some high profile MPs broken up and divided between | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
neighbouring constituencies. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
former Chancellor George Osborne and Brexit Secretary David Davis | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
could all join MPs in a scramble They can argue their case | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
in the consultation that's now underway, with the final proposals | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
due in September 2018.The Government says this is a matter of fairness - | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
here's the Cabinet Office Minister The review being introduced | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
was voted on by the previous parliament and enacts for the first | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
time the historic principle of having equal sized | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
constituencies, which is a principle first called for by the chartists | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
in 1833, it's called for by the Standards and Committee | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
on Public Life. As I said, it was legislated before | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
by the previous parliament. It comes to determine that every | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
seat should be equal. Currently, we have seats | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
which are three times the size of another, | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
which means that one elector's vote is worth three times | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
that of another. That's simply not fair, | :09:30. | :09:30. | |
which is why we are determined to ensure we have equal | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
size constituencies, which is why this | :09:34. | :09:34. | |
review's been enacted. We're joined now by Sam Hartley, | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
he's secretary to the Boundary Welcome to the programme. It's | :09:39. | :09:50. | |
clearly a complex process, so how do you actually go about doing it? It | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
is very complex, we don't hide or shirk from that. Today we launch our | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
initial proposals, it is the first time the public can see what the new | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
map of parliamentary constituencies might look like. As you have | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
outlined, to eat -- we have to reduce the number of constituencies | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
across the country as a whole, I am in the English commission, we had to | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
reduce from 533 to 501. We have to make the number of electors more | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
equal. We do that with the help of the public. We look at data, we have | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
three rounds of consultation. Today is the first day of the first round | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
of consultation. We want people to look at the proposal on the website | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
and tell us what they think. Do you think you will get a big response? I | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
am very confident that we will. Looking at the last review that the | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Boundary Commission conducted, we got over 50,000 public comments. We | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
know it means a lot to people. We have made it easier than ever to | :10:53. | :11:01. | |
comment, the address is bce2018.org.uk. It is easy to look | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
at the proposals and give us feedback. You will get thousands | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
more now you had said that! It stands now to impossible that you | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
cannot take politics into consideration when you are redrawing | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
constituencies. Many people, not least Labour politicians who stand | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
to lose most, argue it is unfair and undemocratic. It is our job to make | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
independent recommendations to Parliament, which is what we will | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
do. We really rely on public comments for this process. We want | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
people to tell us about their communities, whether the boundaries | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
really reflect them or not. Bearing in mind the tough constraints we | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
have about the introduction and equalisation. We are trying to take | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
politics out of it, we leave that to the politicians. Why is it not based | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
on the most recent poll, the EU referendum, where 2 million people | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
signed up to take part in that? They will not be part of this. The law | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
tells us to take account of the December 2015 electoral register, it | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
would be wrong others to do anything different. Why does the law do that? | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
If 2 million more people could be part of this, it sounds unfair not | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
to include them? That is a question for Parliament or the Government to | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
take. The existing elections on the current constituency boundaries are | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
based on a lecture at from the year 2000, this is already a significant | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
improvement on the current state of affairs. The question about when the | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
snapshot is, that is one for Parliament and the Government to | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
take, not the Boundary Commissions. You accept it is out of date, even | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
though it is much more up to date than 2000? I accept that there has | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
to be a point in time where we take baseline data, that is December | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
2015, it would be wrong to take any other information. Let's take | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
12-macro of the quirks in the proposal, Slough town hall would no | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
longer be in the slow constituency, which might strike people in Slough | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
as slightly odd. Is that the type of thing you would change? That is the | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
sort of evidence we require at the type of thing we would change. It is | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
a tough job, difficult for us to get constituencies that reflect people | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
on the first go. We are very open to hear what people say, using that | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
sort of evidence. Nearly two thirds of our initial proposals last time | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
changed before we got to a revised hearing. We are very open to | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
people's comments and we want people to use the website to do that. | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
As we said earlier, not everyone's happy about these plans - | :13:41. | :13:42. | |
not least Labour, which is expected to be hardest hit by the changes. | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
We're joined now by the Shadow Minister Without Portfolio Jonathan | :13:47. | :13:48. | |
Ashworth, he's at the TUC conference in Brighton. | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
-- he is in the studio. Do you accept that Parliamentary | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
constituencies should rapidly the same size? Of course I do. Isn't | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
that what this is about? No, it is reducing MPs from 650 to 600, there | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
is the strong suspicion that 50 MPs have been taken out because that | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
will head the Labour Party most, once you go beyond 50 you tend to | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
bite further into Conservative MPs. There are 2 million people missing | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
from this register, that is the other issue, fair. It is a fairly | :14:20. | :14:29. | |
powerful all humans to say that it is in the law. Because the | :14:30. | :14:31. | |
conservative coalition government at the time had the votes to pass that. | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
We always said that to use the register based on a different way of | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
getting on the register, you might remember the arguments about | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
individual voter registration, where getting on the register became more | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
burdensome, we always said don't go for the register in November or | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
December, wait longer, we all advise the Government to look at the | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
register this year, they have ignored that. Do you accept that | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
Labour under the current drawing of the boundaries has an unfair | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
advantage? No, they don't. This is a Tory argument about how the votes is | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
distributed across the country. In a lot of safe Conservative seats, lots | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
of Tory votes pile-up, the Labour voter tends to be more evenly | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
distributed across the country. You are stealing this process, the | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
Labour Party will be the biggest loser? No. It has to happen. The | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
figures currently used 16 years out of date, an awful lot has changed in | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
terms of house-building, people moving and everything. It is not a | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
political process. It needs to be done. It is right to reduce the | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
numbers of MPs. Partly it is about saving money in terms of the cost of | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
politics. We are the largest legislature in the Western world. | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
What about the House of Lords? That is also on the Government agenda. We | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
have the ability for peers to resign, we have 50 fewer peers than | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
before. Two wrongs don't make a right. The house of Lords is stuffed | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
to the gills and has been stuffed even more by David Cameron in recent | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
months. Surely the unelected House of Lords would be a better place to | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
start? I think you need to do both. It must | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
be right that MPs are representing roughly the same number of people. | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
We get the same resource, the same demands. Jeremy Corbyn seems to be | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
saying if you were in an urban area you should represent fewer people. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
That doesn't work or stack up. The Labour Party has always complained | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
about this. The 1970 general election was fought on 1953 data. | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
The Labour Party have history on this. It is time the register was | :16:46. | :16:54. | |
updated. I wasn't born in 1970, so I don't know. But there are 260 extra | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
unelected peers in the House of Lords under this Government costing | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
?32 million a year. We will lose our MEPs. So we as MPs will have a | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
greater legislative responsibility. Why cut down to 600? Why not do it | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
at 650, but equalise the constituencies. Parliament have | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
voted to cut the number of MPs. It is right. We are the largest | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
legislature in the western world. It doesn't make sense any more and I | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
think we should look at the number of peers. Peers have been created | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
from all parties. We now have the thing where peers can retire at a | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
certain age and 50 have taken advantage of that. Why is it fair a | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
Labour seat has around 5,000 fewer voters in it and therefore you have | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
an unfair advantage in terms of being elected than Conservative | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
seats with around 71,000 voters. My seat has about 73,000. But broadly | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
and you accept that there are Labour seats that are elected on fewer | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
votes? That is why we have said the principle of equalising the | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
constituencies is the correct approach. What we have now is a very | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
tight numerical number that the commission have to work to, with | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
limited flexibility. There used to be more flexibility and you could | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
make more allowance for local factors like there is a seat with a | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
mountain range through them and it has been suggested on them. That is | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
why we are looking at the proposals and members of public and we can | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
sends in revisions to point out practical things. We have another | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
two years before this is finally voted on and accepted. But you have | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
got to hit 75,000 with 5% either way. That is a tighter range than | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
was the previous. If you accepted the principle of equalisation, that | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
is what it means, having a number and flexibility. You're keen to | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
produce the cost of politics so why not reduce the number of ministers. | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
That is something to be looked at... Will you support 2345. We will talk | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
about Brexit and this will be a busy Government doing more legislation | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
and not leaving things to the EU. I don't think I would support, having | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
been a minister and seeing how hard they work. Although you have asked | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
for the House of Lords to be looked at, I won't be looked at at the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
moment and there is no sign of the cost there being reduced or reduce | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
the number of ministers, you're keen on reducing MPs, people may say it | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
is because of party political reasons. People would be wrong. | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
People will say it is party political if they don't like it. | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
Others say it is fairer. The point is it is over due and now we are | :20:03. | :20:10. | |
working on figures from 16 years ago. In my area there has been a | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
massive amount of house building and we get the same resources as MPs, | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
the amount we get for staff doesn't reflect the members we have. The | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
Government are not going to reduce the size of the ministerial payroll | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
and they will be a bigger part of chamber. There is an issue about | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
holding ministers to account. There will be less backbenchers to hold | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
them to account. Hang on, if you were serious about holding ministers | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
to account, you would get yourself sort and be an effective opposition. | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
You can't make that point. So aren't the changes going to Triggs -- | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
trigger another power struggle in the Labour Party. A number of your | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
colleagues, people who have been critical of Jeremy Corbyn in the | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
past, well, their seats could be up for grabs and there could be fights | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
and they may well be reselected or deselected. There is no question it | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
will be an uncertain time for colleagues, the same with the | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
Tories. 17 Tory MPs will lose their seats. The same size as their | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
majority. They're not in the midst of a civil war. There is | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
unhappiness. Do you think your colleagues will be safe? No I think | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
Labour Party MPs will have to convince members in an area that | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
they're the right person. What Jeremy Corbyn's seat is disappearing | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
and he is letting it be known. If the arrangements go ahead he will be | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
fighting the new Finsbury Park seat. What do you say to Darren Williams | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
who joined the Labour ruling Executive and said the process of | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
choosing candidates would provide an opportunity to select vipds in tune | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
with -- individuals in tune with party members. I sit on the | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
Executive. Just about. I have been there for three years. But I sit on | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
that Executive and I don't think Darren's comments will have found | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
much favour among Jeremy Corbyn. He has done him a disservice in making | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
those comments. He shouldn't be embarrassing Jeremy Corbyn. That is | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
not what Jeremy Corbyn wants to do. You don't think Jeremy Corbyn | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
peoples that if he is re-elected as leader that, there should be MPs who | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
are nor in tune with him and party members? Jeremy Corbyn has asked | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
Rosie Winston to lead on the boundary change processes. We have a | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
standard procedure that is used in the last round of boundary changes | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
in 2010 and MPs with fight or put themselves forward for a seat if | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
they have a proportion of the seat in the new constituency. So Jeremy | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Corbyn has got something like 50% going into the new Finsbury Park | :23:10. | :23:18. | |
seat, he can hut himself forward. It would be an opportunity to deselect | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
MPs that members don't like. Any MP have to go through reselection. Our | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
bravenlgs meet -- branches meet to decide that. The good members of | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
Leicester South reselected me and I'm hoping they do it again in this | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Parliament. That is not new. Do you think they will reselect people like | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
Tristram Hunt and Yvette Cooper? I hope so. They're excellent MPs and | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
work hard for their constituencies and they're always taking up issues | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
for them. I expect them to be reselected. Thank you. | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
Education Secretary Justine Greening was at the despatch box yesterday | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
outlining the Government's plans to extend grammar | :24:03. | :24:04. | |
She said the proposals would create a truly meritocratic system. | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
But it's a subject that gets plenty of people hot under the collar, | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
and the minister faced criticism from the opposition | :24:14. | :24:15. | |
We need to radically expand the number of good school places | :24:16. | :24:26. | |
available to all families, not just those who can afford | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
to move into the catchment areas of the best state schools or those | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
who can afford to pay for private education, or those | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
We need to give all schools with a strong track record - | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
with the experience and the valuable expertise - the incentives | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
to expand their offer to enable even more pupils to go there, | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
driving up standards, giving parents greater | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
Mr Speaker, if I may, I'd like to start by offering some | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
Well, Mr Speaker, that reaction is very interesting. | :25:02. | :25:16. | |
Because that wasn't my advice, it was the advice of the last | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
Prime Minister who is still in post, as I think, today, as I believe. | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
The right honourable member, currently, for Witney. | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
When asked about Tory MPs wanting to return to grammar schools, | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
he went on to say, "I think it is delusional to think that | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
a policy of expanding a number of grammar schools is either a good | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
idea, a sellable idea or even the right idea." | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
Is it not the case that the example of the Harris Westminster Free | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
School, supported by a great independent school, | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
and King's Maths School, supported by a great university, | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
shows that you can of institutions that select at the age of 16 that | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
can ensure that children from disadvantaged backgrounds do | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
more, and will she reassure this House that in the face | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
of the opposition to all reform and all debate from the dogmatists | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
on the left side of the House, she will be driven entirely | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
by data and what works, and that she will press ahead | :26:16. | :26:17. | |
She is right to say that we have great schools and great teachers, | :26:18. | :26:25. | |
So could she explain now, or perhaps in the course | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
of the consultation, how the green paper proposals | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
on selective education will benefit those pupils in areas | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
where expectations are still too low, where results are too poor, | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
and can she tell us when she's going to announce the first | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
And Nicky Morgan, who you saw there, is of course still with us. | :26:42. | :26:54. | |
You said yesterday that the new policy is a strange first battle for | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
team radio to have picked -- Theresa May to have picked. Do you accept | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
there is public support for the policy? I accept that there is | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
public support in areas where there is selective education. But I have | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
had e-mails and calls from people who are not supporters. It is mixed. | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
Everybody wants all children to get the best possible education, to do | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
well for the able to be stretched. But when you think about it, the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
worry is well what happens to those who don't? We heard yesterday tales | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
from MPs who said I didn't pass the 11-plus. But my concern is about the | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
parts of the country where educational performance is too low | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
and children aren't achieving the results and the focus needs to be | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
making sure that the reforms bed in in all schools across the country. | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
Rather than having another battle front opened up. What is driving | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
this for Theresa May? I don't know. Because I haven't spoken to her | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
about it. But you're in Government with her. You must know her a bit. | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
She has her own constituency experiences and her personal | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
experiences of being at grammar school when she was at school. But | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
also I think it is something she feels strongly about. There are | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
people of course in my party who feel very strongly and have wanted a | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
return too grammar schools, who will be supportive of this. But they're | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
wrong in your view? I think that having spent 24 months as Education | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
Secretary, it became clear to me and we captured this in the White Paper | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
there are parts of country where performance is not good enough and I | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
don't see how selection will help those parts improve. I don't see | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
those are areas where they will invite in selective schools to open | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
or to expands into the areas. Why did you allow an existing grammar | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
school in Sevenoaks to expand? We have the -- We have the view we want | :29:06. | :29:14. | |
good schools to expands. But it is miles from the existing site. We | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
were clear. As a former solicitor, I was clear on the legal ramifications | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
that it the was an integrated way. But you're not against grammar | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
schools per se, you were proud you allowed to it expand. Why such | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
opposition to parts that would like to open new ones? As I say, in the | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
green paper, it talks about the impact of having a selective school | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
on those non-selective schools locally. The challenge we face in | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
education at the moment is that patchiness and that we have great | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
schools and teacherses but we don't have them every where. While one | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
expansion is one thing, inviting this... It is a distraction from the | :30:07. | :30:15. | |
reforms that are working. The Chief Inspector of schools, who is not | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
afraid of challenges he couldn't be clearer, that the system is getting | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
better and it is not something that is needed now. | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
What do you say to your former colleague, the Schools Minister Nick | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
Gibb, who said that an increase in selective places would, by | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
definition, allow more children from poorer backgrounds to get an | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
outstanding education? He is right in the sense that obviously... That | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
is one of the things they will have to look at, how do you ensure that | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
children from more disadvantaged backgrounds get the new places | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
created in selective schools? There is a need for more school places, no | :30:57. | :31:05. | |
question, because there are more pupils in Nick would understand that | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
the need to build a strong education system across the country, one of | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
the questions asked yesterday is how this would work with the academies | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
and free schools programme, all of those things still to be answered? | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
Quite a few of you was cut -- your colleagues voiced concerns, around | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
50%. How big could be the rebellion be if there is one? I think we are | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
way off any kind of vote or anything like that, but I thought it was | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
interesting that there were a number of colleagues, some of whom I would | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
not have expected, voicing concerns. Like? People like Keith Simpson, Ken | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
Clarke, Michelle Donlon, Ken Clarke raised concerns about the fate | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
schools aspect. Clearly there is a lot more explanation and debate to | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
be had. Were you surprised about Michael Gove sounding like he could | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
support this policy? I think Michael started off, and the clip did not | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
show this, talking about the clear moral purpose. Anybody who has been | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
Education Secretary, you are driven, in the end, by wanting the best for | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
the children in the system. Michael talked about being led by the data, | :32:15. | :32:26. | |
that is one of the things raised both in the statement yesterday and | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
also outside, what is the data that shows that more selection builds a | :32:30. | :32:31. | |
strong school system that works for everybody? You were disappointed to | :32:32. | :32:33. | |
lose a job that you loved, what would you say was your biggest | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
achievement? Putting things like this focus on areas of the country, | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
that is what is in the White Paper. But it free schools didn't really do | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
that either, they were not opening in parts of the country that needed | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
them, like the one near me they were often opening in quite affluent | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
areas. You are right. Obviously in parts of the country that our | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
existing schools or existing groups of parents to open it, but we were | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
moving to a place where the area approach of looking at the areas of | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
the corrupt -- country where the results were poor, that is what I | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
was talking about in achieving excellence areas. My other passion | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
with mental health and character education, I put that on the map of | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
the department, I am glad that it will continue. What about your | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
biggest setback? Obviously the whole issue around the academisation and | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
the fact that... Again, as a minister you have the opportunity to | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
visit schools every week, see what is working, the transformation | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
across the country, but communicating that is quite hard to | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
people who are either perhaps looking at their own constituencies, | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
their own areas, or only have experience of certain types of | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
schools. I think that was obviously... Forced academisation. | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
In the last six months of being Education Secretary, it was taken up | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
with the EU vote, so many things were being made to wait until after | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
the 23rd of June. Many of your conservative colleagues | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
saw it as forced academisation. As we went through Brexit and there was | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
referendum, were you surprised that you did not continue as Education | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
Secretary? Know, with everything that unfolded in the weeks after the | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
Brexit votes, the Prime Minister will want her own team around her. | :34:32. | :34:41. | |
You were Remainers. My face did not fit. They were two jobs either | :34:42. | :34:49. | |
doing, but I was not surprised. I think Justine will be a very good | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
Education Secretary, she always talked very passionately about | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
social mobility, she did a lot of that as International Development | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
Secretary. Will it be difficult for her as a state school pupils from | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
Rotherham trying to push through selective education? She will work | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
with the Prime Minister on this. We will have to see. I think she has | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
lots of other things to announce, one of the other things is the fair | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
funding formula. And it was about your support, and I'm talking about | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
losing your job, of Michael Gove's leadership campaign, that pushed you | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
out? I suspect it did not win me any favours. Michael is a great social | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
reformer. The referendum results demonstrated that. We will be | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
talking about Brexit for months, if not years, but I think there are | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
deep divisions in this country and parts of the public services that | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
still need reform, prisons, welfare, education. Michael and I are on | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
different sides of the EU debate, but he is a great social reformer | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
who would have led that. But did not happen, we have a new Prime Minister | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
and we have to see how things unfold. Do you regret backing him? A | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
life or anything else, looking backwards is not worth it. I don't | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
think there is any point in having regrets. I will take this | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
opportunity now, being on the backbenches, the first time in thaw | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
years I have the opportunity to say what I think, still my diary with | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
meetings that I want to go to and explore other areas. In the Times | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
today it was said that Michael Gove's campaign was a terrible car | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
crash in which he was a leading passenger. By definition it was not, | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
ultimately, successful, and I was a lead person in that. At the end of | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
the day... It was an extraordinary period where decisions were made | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
very quickly and it was an exciting period to be involved in. But now I | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
have the opportunity to do other things. Nicky Morgan, thank you. But | :37:01. | :37:02. | |
you are staying. Now, when Britain leaves the EU, | :37:03. | :37:03. | |
one of the biggest challenges facing the Government will be how | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
to untangle more than 40 years' worth of entwined | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
British and European law. Sorting it all into the desirable | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
and the undesirable could take Well, some MPs have proposed | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
speeding the process up by accepting all EU laws now before sorting | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
through them all later on. Ever wondered what 64,000 individual | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
Acts of Parliament look like? Pretty much all of the UK's laws, | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
written down on sheep or goat skin and stored | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
here in the archive in Parliament. The biggest scrolls, I'm told, | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
relate to issues of taxation. Aha, this is arguably the most | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
important thing in here, the European Communities Act | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
of 1972. Essentially it enshrines a principle | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
that British law had It's like this is the boss | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
of everything else in here. Of course, all that's | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
about to change. Brexit means British law | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
will once again be supreme. There's just the little issue | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
of working out how. When you leave the European Union, | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
you repeal the European Communities Act, but you also bring | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
all the European law Then you change it after you've | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
left if you want to, You don't have to change | :38:22. | :38:29. | |
anything as you are leaving. There are two types of EU law, | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
regulations which apply automatically in all member states | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
and EU directives, which set out aims that parliaments | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
must then legislate for, Acts of Parliament like these | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
and statutory instruments Yeah, and that's why this | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
constitutional expert says it's a job that could take up | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
to a decade to sort out. The law, after all, is constantly | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
evolving and tested You can't simply cut and paste | :38:55. | :38:56. | |
without an awful lot of care. One example of what happened | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
when the Supreme Court was created was I think the | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
Government thought... Tony Blair thought, "Tremendously | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
easy, we'll just repeal the office We now have a Lord | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
Chancellor. When you looked at the thousands of | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
Acts of Parliament with references to the Lord Chancellor, | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
he couldn't get rid of it. And there will be an awful lot | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
of that kind of difficulty when you try to get | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
rid of some EU law. Because of the way that laws | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
are recommended, it's really hard to nail down the scale of just how | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
far EU law is entrenched -- the way that laws are | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
implemented. During the referendum campaign, | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
estimates varied from 16% to 13%. And there's no doubt we'd | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
like to keep some of them. Over the years, we've come to accept | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
quite a lot of the EU employment rights, the equality laws, | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
the things like that. Equal pay for men and women, | :39:50. | :39:50. | |
non-discrimination. But some of the more ridiculous | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
regulations in agriculture, for example, or in regulating | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
competition, for example, No one seems to be disputing | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
that this legal separation can be But whatever happens, | :40:07. | :40:15. | |
as soon as Britain leaves, the Communities Act will be | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
effectively ripped up. And, no, of course | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
that's not the real one! Yes, there was a slight gasp in the | :40:24. | :40:33. | |
studio! We're joined now by the Ukip | :40:34. | :40:35. | |
MP Douglas Carswell. Welcome. Clear this up, what | :40:36. | :40:44. | |
proportion of EU law is statute, ie made by Parliament, and what | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
proportion as common law? About 60% of law made last year originated | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
from the EU. There is a huge amount of regulation, statute and law that | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
emanates and was created under the auspices of the European Communities | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
Act. When we leave, we would vote to make all of that law, all of that | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
regulation, British law. It can subsequently be amended or not | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
amended, but the act of converting it into British law and leaving its | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
router be straightforward. But we have just heard the exact opposite, | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
you can't just take everything that was EU law, or originated in the EU | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
Parliament, and put it... I am only taking it from him, that you can't | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
cut and paste. You can't just say, I will rub out EU law and write a | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
British court. When Britain and other countries to colonise to in | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
the 40s, 50s and 60 's, the pattern was that law that had supposedly | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
been imposed by Britain on those countries became domestic law of | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
those countries until subsequently amended. The process of them | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
changing will be unending, because self-governing democracy, every new | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
Government will want to modify and change the law. The process of | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
making every piece of legislation brought in under the auspices of the | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
European Communities Act British law is relatively straightforward. How | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
many laws will we need to repatriate? The entire body of | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
legislation brought in under the European Communities Act 1972 will | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
become British law. How many laws are they, how many numbers? | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
Hundreds, thousands? Tens of thousands, and since we joined the | :42:29. | :42:35. | |
European Communities Act there has been exponential growth in so-called | :42:36. | :42:37. | |
statutory legislation, because the European Communities Act allows | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
technocrats to create law without our consent. Does it sound simple to | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
you? Know, and it was warned about before the vote on the 23rd of June, | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
it would take an inordinate amount of time. Some people just think he | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
will repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and that is it. It will | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
take a lot longer. Another point is the legislations, which have direct | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
effect. We need to decide which of those we want or don't want. The | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
other thing is that the rulings of the European port -- European Court | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
of Justice in terms of precedent, because lawyers in court will often | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
argue about precedent and look at what was meant when a statute or | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
directive was introduced. That will still apply for some years to come | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
until we have our own. It will be British court adjudicating after we | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
have left. But will it be? The lawyer said that | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
if you get rid of the certain number of laws, employment and workers' | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
writes, it takes time to incorporate or rewrite them into British law, | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
then the workers will not be protected? All existing laws and | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
rights would remain and be brought in as British law. Except he says | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
you can't do that as simply as cutting and pasting. There are about | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
200 countries around the world, they are almost all self-governing. | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
Self-government is not such a ridiculously complex process that we | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
can't manage it, we can manage it in a straightforward way. You think the | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
lawyer is wrong? It is generous of him to concede that self-government | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
as possible! But the transition will take a long time. The amount of | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
Government, civil service and Parliamentary time... Parliament | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
making public policy, there's a thought! It will keep us busy. A | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
good democratic principle would be that until the general election, | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
when Parliament published manifestos specifying what they want to change, | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
the default should be not to change. Jeremy Corbyn can by all means | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
nationalise the railways, currently illegal in the EU, but we should not | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
change these laws until we have an election and there is a mandate in | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
the manifested to change existing rules. So you accept it will tie up | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
the UK Parliament for years, maybe a decade? Self-government is quite a | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
busy process. We have been doing it for several centuries and it takes | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
up the time. You have always liked smaller government, fewer ministers, | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
less time spent on these things, now you advocate the opposite? Being in | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
the EU has meant an explosion in regulations and rules. If Parliament | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
has to take responsibility, I think we would get fewer laws, better | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
framed. And the people that the laws most impact would have recourse to | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
change them if they did not like it. You think Parliament will be best | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
served recreating 40 years worth of EU laws, however long it takes? As I | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
tried to explain, we do not need to recreate things, all existing laws | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
will be transposed and become UK law. You will have to recreate some | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
of them, some of them must have originated from the EU, and then | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
decide which to get rid of. Businesses who are going to work | :46:00. | :46:10. | |
with and EU member states, they benefit from those mutual | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
regulations. If we want to carry on with the relationships we have to | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
think it is not just about us. Mutual recognition is compatible | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
within the EU. By being outside the EU it would be easier to have this | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
than in the single market, which imposes a single standard on | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
everyone. Things like passports... That makes passporting in the City | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
redundant. You need the arrangement that Switzerland has. If you want to | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
refight the referendum, making these arguments too late. The realisation | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
is that this is going to be complicated and take a lot of civil | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
service time and cost. And it is not just Parliament, it affects | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
businesses, people in the country and public services, the NHS. | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
Self-Government does take up the time of politicians. It is what | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
people wanted. They wanted to take back control of laws and in a way | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
Parliament has to do this. They did want to take back control. But | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
people, I have had e-mails from people saying it is simple. That is | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
just the starting point. That won't happen... Maybe your party and my | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
party could publish a manifesto with chapters saying what we intend to | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
change. I would like higher animal standards and we can do that and not | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
blame Brussels. It will be good for democracy. You have thought a lot | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
about this over the years, what role doo you see yourself playing? I hope | :47:52. | :48:00. | |
I play a constructive role. I think David Davis is off to a flying | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
start. There is a commission to shadow the Brexit department, I | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
would love to play a part and ensure we leave the EU but co-operate with | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
our friends as neighbours. Wouldn't you rather be on the government | :48:16. | :48:23. | |
bench? Good heavens no, I have never been comfortable being part of | :48:24. | :48:24. | |
Government ever! David Davis has been the busy man. | :48:25. | :48:46. | |
-- has been a busy man. It will take many months to see the effects of | :48:47. | :48:53. | |
several options and the analysis on the negotiating balance, where our | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
allies might be and where they might not be. This is likely to be the | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
most complicated negotiation of modern times and maybe the most | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
complicated of all time. Even with and you mention this inure report as | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
well -- in your report, with private hearings, I have to say I may not be | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
able to tell you everything even in private hearings. Because this is | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
really the sexiest area of politics at the moment. Everybody writes to | :49:20. | :49:26. | |
us and we get vast amounts. My department is tiny. If it is | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
quadrupled in one month, it is eight weeks, but everybody around here | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
know what is Whitehall and Brussels are like in August. | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
Mr Davis is a busy man, because this afternoon he's also due | :49:40. | :49:42. | |
to appear in front of MPs on the Foreign Affairs Committee. | :49:43. | :49:44. | |
Nadhim Zahawi will be one of those putting the questions, | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
Is this the sexiest place to be in Whitehall? I think it is the most | :49:48. | :49:59. | |
exciting place to be if you're in Whitehall in terms of being able to | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
work out what are position is going to be. So that when we do trigger | :50:05. | :50:13. | |
article 50 we are able to once we know what that position is | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
articulate it and negotiate a settlement. That works for the | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
United Kingdom as Theresa May has said, she wants it to work for | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
business, so business can continue to trade with Europe. As well as | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
taking control of our borders. What are you going to ask him. I won't | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
pre-empt that, my colleagues would be upset. You have got them written | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
down. I have many written down, some will come through the interrogation | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
or the... Ability to enquire of our new Secretary of State. We want to | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
look at the structure of his department. To look at how he | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
intends to report back to Parliament. He rightly said, look, | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
we can't give a running commentary. Theresa May repeated that in the | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
chamber. I think it would be wrong of the Government to give a running | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
commentary as to what their thinking is and the position papers, but once | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
those position papers have become more solid, he would have to have | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
scrutiny of a select committee. It sounds fascinating this thing this | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
afternoon. It is. Is it. He is not going to tell you anything. He said | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
in this committee, we will have to keep a lot of negotiations secret | :51:35. | :51:42. | |
and we won't brief Parliamentarians, the rung commentary you -- running | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
commentary, you are not going to learn anything? Our job is to push | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
government. That is what committees do and why they have worked so well, | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
because now we have chairmen elected by the House and Thierry Henry have | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
the -- and therefore have the accountability of House and they | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
have the structure of departments and budget and the direction of | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
travel. You have got to be realistic. You can't have the detail | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
before the Government has had the negotiation. But then we want to | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
make sure there are commitments that they will come and in the spirit of | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
transparency be able to come before the committee and deliver that to | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
the House. Do you have sympathy with David Davis being asked questions he | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
can't answer? I think we have all been through it as ministers. I | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
think it is, we are all finding our way. This will be complicated. We | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
have heard how complex the legal changes. Not according to Douglas | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
Carswell. But I think they will be. I have to say I think, David Davis | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
said last week that he would keep Parliament informed and engaged. | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
There is a point, a balance between no running commentary and nothing at | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
all. And I think we are two months after the vote we need a plan as to | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
when we are going to start the negotiations and I would like to is | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
no what -- know where the Government would like to end up. Things like | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
free movement and single market and it is important I think, because | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
otherwise other people will put in their view and this is for the | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
government. Whether it is today or between now and the end of the term, | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
we need more detail. I think the principle, the guiding principle is | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
what the Prime Minister said, what she will want is a deal that works | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
for British business to export with Europe and control our borders. She | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
is the boss. She is the Prime Minister. Before you interrupted me, | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
free trade for businesses across Europe and controlling our | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
borderses. That were her guiding principles. You have to take the | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
guide from the DNA from any organisation comes from the top and | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
from Theresa May. Reaching a settlement was still possible said | :54:04. | :54:10. | |
David Davis within goo years, but -- two years but will be difficult. Do | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
you think it will slip? We will have to see. Our job on the committee is | :54:14. | :54:21. | |
to question the government as to what their targets are, what | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
structures they're putting in place, the resources they have available, | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
to meet the targets. You have to take them at their word. We have got | :54:28. | :54:34. | |
to take that at face value. But we make sure that that target is real | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
is tick and can be met. Ewith ill be watching. Thank you. | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
Time now to find out the answer to our quiz. | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
The question was about David Cameron. | :54:47. | :54:47. | |
He'd no sooner stepped down as an MP yesterday | :54:48. | :54:49. | |
B, new panellist on This Week with Andrew Neil? | :54:50. | :54:56. | |
Or D, Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead? | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
So, Nicky, what's the correct answer? | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
It is bailiff of the manor of Northstead. Do you know anything | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
about it? No. Yes, the correct answer is that | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
David Cameron has been appointed to be Crown Steward and Bailiff | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
of the Manor of Northstead, That's one of the ancient ceremonial | :55:20. | :55:21. | |
titles that's been kept to allow MPs And that means the previous Steward | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead is out | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
of a ceremonial job. And we're joined by him now, | :55:31. | :55:32. | |
he's the former Labour MP Huw Irranca-Davies and he stood down | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
as an MP earlier this year in order It is a non-job isn't it? Yes, it is | :55:36. | :55:52. | |
a bit of fun and the only stewardship I have ever had. It is | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
supposed to be a paid office, but I didn't receive anything. Have you | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
written to the Chancellor? I think I should to say, where is my pay. But | :56:04. | :56:12. | |
it is strange. It is apt here in the Senedd, the first person to use the | :56:13. | :56:19. | |
device in 1742, was a Watkins Williams Wyn, who who inherited a | :56:20. | :56:30. | |
paid position and was forced to resign. You could not be a place man | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
and scrutinyise the king. You haven't a manor that you're handing | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
to David Cameron. No, I don't. I did have a bit of a look to see what the | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
manor looked like. Even when it was used in the fashion, it was a | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
derelict, run down building. Now, I understand it is under an industrial | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
estate. Sorry, David, there is not much to look at with this new role. | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
We have got a slight sound problem, but we will continue. There is no | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
process is there for actually standing down as an MP. Hence this | :57:14. | :57:21. | |
strange mechanism. Yes, we should be able to look this and there have | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
been suggestions to allow a MP either thus ill health or -- through | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
ill health, or like me I decided to do something, to put in a letter of | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
resignation. But I have to write, or David Cameron will have writen to | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
the Chancellor to get their permission to take on one of these | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
crown stewardships and that would disbar them from being an MP. So | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
they can't resign, but they're disqualified by having a paid | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
position under the crown. It is bizarre and it is a bit of fun, it | :57:57. | :58:05. | |
is nice to be one on a list that I notice includes people such as Enoch | :58:06. | :58:13. | |
Powell and Boris Johnson, Gerry Adams. And now David Cameron. I hope | :58:14. | :58:21. | |
he looks after it and doesn't upset the neighbours. You haven't upset | :58:22. | :58:31. | |
anyone. No there is a Twitter feed from the manor and they have sent me | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
good wishes for leaving it in good shape and invited me back. You look | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
as if you have enjoyed it. Thank you. You're a free man now. I am | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
free. Enjoy it. The One O'Clock News is starting | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
over on BBC One now. I'll be back at 11:30am tomorrow | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
with Andrew for live coverage | :58:52. | :58:54. |