Browse content similar to 07/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
Jeremy Corbyn shuffles his Shadow Cabinet, sacking his chief | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
whip and promoting Diane Abbott to Shadow Home Secretary. | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
Ukip say leadership candidate Steven Woolfe has "reached out | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
the hand of friendship" to his fellow MEP Mike Hookem, | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
after their altercation yesterday left Mr Woolfe in hospital. | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
We'll assess the implications for the party. | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
The EU Commission considers a new plan to bring the citizens | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
of Europe together - free Interrail passes for 18-year-olds. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
And after Liam Fox says he won't be sharing Chevening House | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
with Boris Johnson and David Davis, we've got the Daily Politics guide | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
to the Government's top official residences. | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
This house goes with the job and when I say it goes | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
with the job, I mean it goes with the job! | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the first half | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
of the programme today, the Daily Mail's political editor | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
Let's kick off with the latest on Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow | :01:41. | :01:49. | |
Last night the Labour leader started to fill in the gaps | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
in his Shadow Cabinet, following his victory over | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
leadership challenger Owen Smith two weeks ago. | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
Labour's Deputy Leader Tom Watson said recently that the party | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
needed to "put the band back together" after a summer | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
So who has Jeremy Corbyn appointed as his | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
The Chief Whip Rosie Winterton, popular with many Labour MPs, | :02:09. | :02:18. | |
has been sacked, due to artistic differences. | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
She makes way for a comeback by Nick Brown, who served | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
as Chief Whip under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Andy Burnham is going solo and running to become mayor | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
So he is replaced as Shadow Home Secretary by Diane Abbott, | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
Baroness Shami Chakrabarti, who only joined the party | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
earlier this year, is appointed Shadow | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
Clive Lewis was involved in a row with the party | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
leadership over Trident policy at the Labour conference. | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
He has been moved from his defence post | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
The new Shadow Defence Secretary is Nia Griffith. | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
She is one of four Labour MPs who have resigned this year | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
Other returning band members are Sarah Champion, | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
Jonathan Reynolds and Keir Starmer, the new Shadow Brexit Secretary. | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
But will the changes get Labour MPs all singing | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
One senior party figure has already called the reshuffle "cack | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
Well, we are joined now by Jo Stevens in Cardiff. Welcome to your | :03:16. | :03:30. | |
pointment to the Shadow Cabinet. Keir Starmer wrote in July it is | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
simply untenable to suggest that Labour can offer effective | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
opposition without a change of leader. What's changed? Well, we | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
have had a leadership election. Jeremy has won and won convincingly | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
and I think Keir Starmer probably feels like I do which is that we | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
have got to get on with forming a credible, and functional opposition | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
to the Tory Government because the public needs it. So I'm delighted | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
that he has accepted his position in the Shadow Cabinet. I was delighted | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
to accept mine and I'm ready to get on with the hard work. So you're | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
going to swallow any of the reservations you had about Jeremy | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
Corbyn? Well, there has been a leadership election... There was one | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
before, of course, and he was elected then but you said it became | :04:16. | :04:24. | |
obvious that Labour were able to fulfil the obligations of being an | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
opposition? We have to abide by the decision and there is a | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
responsibility on us all, members and elected representatives to make | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
sure that we fulfil the official opposition role and that's what the | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
public want us to do and we've got to get on with it. There are huge | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
challenges facing the country. We saw last week at Tory Party | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
conference a xenophobic rhetoric coming from Theresa May and from | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
Amber Rudd and we have got to challenge that because that's not | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
what people want to hear. You said three months that Owen Smith was a | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
better bet than Jeremy Corbyn to win the next general election. Do you | :05:02. | :05:03. | |
still think he would have been a better bet to win the general | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
election? I really wanted Owen to win the leadership election. I have | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
long thought that he was a potential future leader of the Labour Party | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
and I'm disappointed that he didn't win, but as I did last year when | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
Jeremy stood for election, I didn't wack Jeremy then and he won and I | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
decided, you know, the best thing party loyalty is you stick behind | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
whoever is the leader, the elected leader of the party. We're a | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
collective, the Labour Party is a collective and we have a leader, | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
we've got to get on with the job. Do you think he can win the next | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
general election? I hope he can. It is all our jobs from members, right | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
up to elected representatives to make sure that we give the best | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
possible opportunity to that happening. One of Mr Corbyn's | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
allies, Shami Chakrabarti has been appointed to the Shadow Cabinet only | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
five months after she joined the party to deliver a report on | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
anti-semitism, today the Jewish board of deputies says this makes | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
her report look like a job application and accused her of | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
selling out the Jewish community. What's your response? We have a | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party in the way there is | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
a problem with anti-semitism across the UK and we need to deal with it | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
properly, thoroughly and appropriately. Shami Chakrabarti has | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
a huge amount of experience that she will bring to the House of Lords and | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
to the Shadow Cabinet. Shetion an excellent person to be a member of | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
the House of Lords and the Shadow Cabinet as Shadow Attorney-General. | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
Timing wise, you know, maybe I can see why people will criticise, but | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
give her a chance. Did you think it was a whitewash her report? I don't | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
think it was a whitewash, no, but I think things could have been handled | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
better and I know that Jeremy said during his leadership campaign that | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
he made mistakes and the sign of a strong, good leader is someone who | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
licence and persuades and influences others, but someone who makes | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
compromises and I think there need to be some compromises. I hope | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
yesterday as appointments where Jeremy appointed people who were | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Owen Smith supporters shows an element of compromise and I hope to | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
see more. Do you think there was compromise when he sacked Rosie | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
Winterton as Chief Whip? I'm sad about Rosie going. I thought she did | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
a brilliant job in very, very challenging circumstances... So why | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
did he sack her? Well, I haven't talked to Jeremy about that and I | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
don't know and I saw Rosie's statement yesterday. I wish her the | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
very best and I wish Nick Brown the best in his role and I'm sure he | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
will do as good a job as Rosie did. Jeremy Corbyn talked a lot about | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
olive branches during the Labour Party Conference. And Rosie wenthed | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
winner tonne was seen as the glue between the Parliamentary party and | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
the leadership and the members and he sacked her. Does that seem | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
conciliatory to you? Well, I'm looking at the whole picture. You | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
can focus on one individual, but I want to see... She was an important | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
individual as Chief Whip? Of course, but I want to look at the whole | :08:05. | :08:14. | |
picture. If you look at the appointments made yesterday, I | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
supported Owen Smith, and Keir Starmer supported Owen Smith, sir ra | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
Champion either remained neutral or supported Oult. He held out an olive | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
branch. There is more to do. It is a good start. Let's see what the | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
frontbench and the Shadow Cabinet look like when it is concluded. What | :08:35. | :08:43. | |
did Clive Lewis do? It seemed because he backed Trident, his | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
decent was punished with a move out of defence? Well, I don't think it | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
is a demotion or a punishment. The job that Clive has taken on, which | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
I'm sure he will do very well, is a really critical job. We're talking | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
about the term of Brexit. All the issues around protection of | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
employment rights and health and safety at work will come under | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
Clive's role in that department. And so, you know, I think for Clive, it | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
is a great move. I think he'll do a really good job and I think Nia will | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
do a good job as Shadow defence secretary. What do you make of this | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
reshuffle, carrying it out now in the way he has? Well, pity poor Nick | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
Brown. He was the Chief Whip during the years of the Blair-Brown... And | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
he was a Brownite? He was a heavyweight figure there. But I | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
suspect that what he had to implement during the worst years of | :09:42. | :09:55. | |
the Blair-Brown what we called the tibgibies, the feeling is they have | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
to provide some kind of opposition. There is no prospect of removing | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
Jeremy Corbyn any time in the near future so the best they can do is | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
get on with the job. Well, Jo Stevens is right, and he held out an | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
olive branch to those who have criticised him because he has got | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Nia Griffiths and he put her in defence and taken on Sarah Champion | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
and Keir Starmer, will that be enough? Please. These are not | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
towering figures in the Labour movement. They are new MPs and they | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
are not the figures who have been the greatest decenters against | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
Corbynism. It doesn't exactly show a great breadth across the party | :10:33. | :10:33. | |
there. Thank you. The former Labour Prime Minister | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
Tony Blair has given an interview to Esquire magazine where he's | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
hinted at a possible career move, so our question for today is, | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
what is he thinking of doing? Is it a) Going on Strictly Come | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
Dancing, b) Becoming | :10:53. | :10:54. | |
Secretary General of the UN, or d) Returning to frontline | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
British politics? Later in the programme Isabel | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
will give us the correct answer. Ukip's Steven Woolfe will be kept | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
in hospital for another two days, following what Nigel Farage called | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
"an altercation" with fellow Ukip MEP Mike Hookem | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
at the European Parliament. The party released these pictures | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
of Mr Woolfe being visited by Mr Farage and say the extra stay | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
is just a precaution. An inquiry has been launched | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
into the incident with Mr Hookem apparently denying a physical | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
fight took place. Details are sketchy, | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
but the BBC has been told it's believed Mr Woolfe | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
banged his head against a window Following a vote two hours later | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
"he collapsed" and the emergancy Earlier this morning Ukip MEP | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
Nathan Gill spoke to the media I have just been to see my good | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
friend Steven Woolfe, He told me that his family are fully | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
aware of his situation and where he is and his health, | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
and he can't wait to He's sick of croissants | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
and is looking forward to a good full English breakfast, | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
so as you can tell, Steven has this morning reached out | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
the hand of friendship to Mr Hookem, to Mike, and has realised that | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
things did go too far in the MEP meeting, so he's made moves | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
forward for keeping us The party will be holding a full | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
and thorough investigation I myself was not in the room | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
at the moment that it happened. I walked into the room | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
as it was happening. So I cannot comment fully, | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
and I do not wish to at this stage. We can speak now to Raheem Kassam, | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
a former advisor to Nigel Farage and one of Steven Woolfe's rivals | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
to the be the next Ukip leader. Welcome to the programme. Ukip lost | :12:52. | :13:08. | |
a leader after only 18 day ins Diane James, the party's MEPs cannot meet | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
without some fight breaking out and your biggest donor Aaron Banks says | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
the party is at breaking point. Is he right? Yeah, I think the party | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
has some serious crisis going on inside. I don't think it is anything | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
that it can't recover from and I also would point out that this isn't | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
unique to Ukip. I maornings you have seen Labour MPs and Tory MPs having | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
brawls in Parliament before, it is not a good look, but it is nothing | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
the party can't move on from. The party chairman said Ukip would hold | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
on an investigation into what happened, into the altercation | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
between Steven Woolfe and Mike Hookem. Should they both be | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
suspended from the party in your mind? I don't know. We don't know | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
enough about what happened at the moment to make those sort of calls | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
and I think anybody who is trying to assign blame either way or... Well, | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
that's what I mean. Suspend both of them? Yeah, but why? You don't know | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
what happened yet. Let's see what the investigation turns out. The | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
point is this, Ukip is searching for a leader, there is serial things | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
that the party could be doing and should be doing now to make the | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
country a better place and needs to stop this internal fighting and | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
actually get and literal fighting and get on with doing its job and | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
that's to be an opposition party. Goodness knows, Labour is not going | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
to do it. How much reputational damage has been done to the party? | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
You could accuse both of them of bringing the party into disderoute? | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
It is against the party's rules and it is a phrase banded around a lot | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
especially by people who want to get others kicked off leadership ballots | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
for instance and there is all sorts of talk going on in the background | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
in Ukip and my phone is ringing off the hook of people saying, "They are | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
trying to kick Stephen off." It is unfair, you do have to look at | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
having a full investigation into this. I think, you know, this is a | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
human problem. It is an emotional problem that occurred yesterday and | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
you know I think, we're very quick in politics to forget the people are | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
human beings and quick to forget we all make errors so I want to hear | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
what actually happened, and then I'll comment about what I think | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
should be done. It has been reported that one of the things that caused | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
the tension to spill out, was that Steven Woolfe's comments that he | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
held discussions about possibly defecting to the Conservatives. Can | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
someone credibly stand to be Ukip leader soon after considering | :15:38. | :15:37. | |
leaving the party? That is a really interesting | :15:38. | :15:46. | |
question, and one I have wrestled with inside my head since I heard | :15:47. | :15:48. | |
this. And the answer? I like Steven a lot, | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
he's a good personal friend of mine. I think you may have made a judgment | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
error in talking to the Conservative Party. I think a lot of people in | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
the party have been thinking about these things as well. Some members | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
have been joining the Conservative Party over recent weeks. Can he | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
credibly stand? I think you can, to be honest. I think he is good enough | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
of heart to know when he has made a mistake and move on for it. I would | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
like to see Steven be in the race. How long have you been a member of | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
Ukip? Consecutively or in total? Consecutively, up until now? I | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
joined at the last leadership election, about two months ago. | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
Before that I was a member for about 18 months and then had a lap cement | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
ship of 6-8 months. Will that make it difficult for you to stand? | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
According to the rule book you need to be a consecutive member of the | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
two years? There are two party rule books floating around the Internet, | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
once is 28 days and one says two years. The NEC try to put a | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
five-year rule in last time. The point is this, this is an important | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
election for Ukip and I thing it should be an open contest. I think | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
anyone who has good ideas for the party should be able to stand. This | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
is a existential moment. If the NAC start their chicanery will again or | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
they're doing is bringing focus back on themselves, as to why the party | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
needs drastic reform. You say it is chicanery and complained a little | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
earlier in the interview about using excuses to kick people out of the | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
party or suspend them. You said in an interview if you were elected | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
Neil Hamilton would be the second person out of the door. So you want | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
to do the same, who is the first? The first would be Douglas Carswell. | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
So you want to kick people out of the party? There is no doubt, I'm | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
not going to hide the fact, everybody knows I am someone who | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
thinks that there are certain people in the party you are setting out to | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
do the party harm intentionally, I believe that. But after yesterday's | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
incident I also spoke to Ian Dalla LBC and said, this makes me pause | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
and makes me think. It makes me think that maybe we need a moment to | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
come together, we need a moment to sit around a table and try to hammer | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
out our grievances and differences. If at that point we all still | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
realise we can't get along, then somebody needs to stand up and say, | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
either you go or we go or something has to happen here to solve this | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
problem, but I do think from the outset, I will extend the hand of | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
friendship, let's all sit down and try to hammer these problems out. | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
What no more threats of kicking people out of the party up. What is | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
your view on how likely it is the party can come together? Do you | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
think it was to be around in a couple of years' time? I'm not | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
convinced, to tell you the truth, which I think is a great pity. I | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
think there is absolutely a space for a political party or movement | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
that holds the government's feet to the fire. We have seen what a mess | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
Labour is in, here's hoping they manage to form a credible and robust | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
opposition, but it isn't now. So many people voted for the UK | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
Independence party at the last election, so there is not a space | :19:12. | :19:34. | |
for it to do more. But I thing the current setup, the people and the | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
individuals, all the baggage, the history, the problems with money and | :19:38. | :19:39. | |
discipline, it feels as if the show is over. What you think about Raheem | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
Kassam, in terms of being a potential leader? He's been around | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
Ukip for a long time. I'm not interested in a layperson as to how | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
many months he has or hasn't been a member. Has to be rules? Rules are | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
causing lots of grief at the moment, if you can or can't punch each | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
other. Presumably there is normally a consensus around no punching? You | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
would assume so. He has been around Ukip a long time and I am sure he | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
should be involved in any leadership contest. My feeling is, I'm not sure | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
why anyone would want to lead this party at the moment. Why do you want | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
to lead it at the moment, bearing in mind how difficult it is and you | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
yourself have said you might not be able to come together? I think | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
Isabel is completely correct. I think there is no opposition in this | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
country at the moment and then need to be some serious political | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
opposition in this country. We can't have a 1-party state. We can't have | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
a Theresa May trying to be Ukip for two and a half years to siphon off | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
all the Ukip members and turn it on its head when it has an election | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
coming up and she has to fight Jeremy Corbyn... Her leadership has | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
convinced them to defect and join the Conservative Party. On your | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
leadership... They will come back under my leadership. Many have | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
linked you to Nigel Farage's comments during the referendum about | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
HIV and AIDS. You said you describe the commenters shock and awe, is | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
that true? I did. Do you still stand by those comments, and he should | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
have raised in that debate? I don't know what you mean by still stand by | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
them. Nigel Farage got up onstage and unbeknown to us make this | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
statement. The statement was one of complete fact and one that was | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
intelligent to bring up in a discussion about the National Health | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
Service, especially when we consider the National Health Service is | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
turning into an international health is this, however, I totally agree | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
with some people and commentators out there who said it could have | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
been done in a different way. It could have been done in a more | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
tactful way. This was a statement, and I won't get into naming names. | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
It was about judgment? Hold on, as much as people tried to goad me into | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
this, I won't name names. Other people in the party briefed Nigel on | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
that issue, not me, that's why said it was shocking and awful. It was a | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
flippant turn of phrase used with some journalists in the room | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
afterwards, so I didn't appreciate the fact they reported it. That's | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
what they do. Thank you for joining us, Raheem Kassam. | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
Now, cast you mind back a few months if you can, | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
A report published today by the pressure group | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
Transparency International, suggests that over half of the money | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
donations to the leave and remain campaigns were made | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
Fought primarily by the two big official referendum groups - | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
Vote Leave and Britain Stronger In Europe - | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
almost ?30 million was spent in the run-up to the vote. | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
Transparency International says that the dominance of rich donors | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
is undermining our trust in politics, and are lobbying | :22:47. | :22:48. | |
for a new cap on individual donations. | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
Joining us now in the studio is the organisation's UK | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
Policy Director, and former Liberal Democrat MP | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
Welcome back to Daily Politics. What does it say, your new report? It | :22:56. | :23:06. | |
shows an astonishingly large amount of the money spent on the referendum | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
campaign came from a very small number of exceptionally wealthy | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
people. The report also reveals findings of the global corruption | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
barometer survey that showed a representative sample of people in | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
the UK, three quarters of them, thought wealthy individuals had | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
undue influence because of their position in society. Does actually | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
affect trust in politics in any major way? People will say there | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
have been big donations to parties over history, does this change that? | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
A quarter of people in that survey said they believed most or all MPs | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
were involved in corruption. Whether that is accurate or not, it shows | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
there is a great degree of distrust. After the referendum, so many | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
political leaders were wondering why they weren't connecting with the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
people. Do you think it is about donations? It's not factual truth to | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
say most MPs in this country are corrupt, it's a perception problem, | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
isn't it? Why would donations from a few rich individuals be, in your | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
mind, the one thing that makes people lose trust in politics? I'm | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
sure it's not just one thing. What we're trying to show with this | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
report is how incredibly vulnerable the British political system is, to | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
small numbers of people with a particular vested interest in having | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
a disproportionate degree of influence. Hasn't that been borne | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
out by many commentators saying that is what the referendum was about. | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
Not being told what to do by expat. The rich and for having too much | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
say? You know what I think is remarkable about the way the | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
referendum was funded? The enormous number of very small donors that | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
there were. Interesting case in point is Peter Hargreaves, a very | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
wealthy man, who donated a lot of money out of his own pocket to the | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
Brexit campaign. He spent that money on a leafleting campaign to millions | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
of households, offsetting somewhat the money the government spent, ?9 | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
million of it, of taxpayers money, and his leafleting campaign prompted | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
thousands of people to give a few pounds of what they could afford. | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
And by the way, when Peter Hargreaves achieved what he wanted, | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
which was Brexit, the share price in his | :25:25. | :25:51. | |
company nosedived. That tells you everything about the motivations, | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
the good motivations. You are saying small donations work? It is better | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
to have or try to get more people, a bit like Donald Trump has, attracted | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
a lot of small donations? What is important is people are engaged in | :26:01. | :26:02. | |
politics. That they feel they have a stake in it and they can put a | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
little bit into it. Fine, ?3 donation, 30 poun ds donation, I | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
think that of the information revealed by. The point of the | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
information revealed need to fight their political campaigns don't come | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
from those people, it comes from a very small number of wealthy | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
individuals. I don't believe from my experience in Parliament that those | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
politicians want to spend time courting wealthy donors any more | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
than we want them to focus their efforts on it. Are you suggesting | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
state funding? As you know, it's not a report is most of the resources | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
that political parties need to fight their political campaigns don't come | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
from those people, it comes from a very small number of wealthy | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
individuals. I don't believe from my experience in Parliament that those | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
politicians want to spend time courting wealthy donors any more | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
than we want them to focus their efforts on it. Are you suggesting | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
state funding? As you know, it's not a popular we are recommending a cap | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
on donations of ?10,000 a year, which originated from a we are | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
recommending a cap on donations of ?10,000 a year, which originated | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
from donor funds for the campaign report. And looking at tightening | :26:43. | :26:44. | |
the rules around company donations. The third largest donor of funds for | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
the any accounts. We know very little about exactly where the money | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
came from for that operation, because it isn't registered as a | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
participant in the referendum and only appears a company called better | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
for the country limited, set up barely a year ago and as a result | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
haven't filed any accounts. We know very little about exactly where the | :27:00. | :27:01. | |
money came from for that operation, because it isn't registered as a | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
participant in the referendum and only appears on of the grassroots. | :27:05. | :27:06. | |
Would that starve the main political parties and smaller ones, like the | :27:07. | :27:08. | |
Liberal Democrats of vital funding? If you don't have state funding and | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
you are going to cap the donations. The Lib Dems themselves, the party | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
you are part of, had big donors, with big donations? Your party | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
wouldn't have survived without forms of the grassroots. Would that starve | :27:20. | :27:21. | |
the main political parties and smaller ones, like the Liberal | :27:22. | :27:23. | |
Democrats of vital funding? If you don't have state funding and you are | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
going to cap the donations. The Lib Dems themselves, the party you are | :27:27. | :27:28. | |
part of, had big donors, with big donations? Your party wouldn't have | :27:29. | :27:37. | |
survived people think all or most MPs are corrupt. But that is untrue, | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
is it? Absolute nonsense. I think we need to get away from the idea that | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
donating to politics is some kind of grubby? I think it would have caused | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
problems for a number of political parties, and it's a good problem for | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
them to have, so they do do the outreach Isabel was talking about. | :27:55. | :27:56. | |
So people feel they have ownership over how the democratic process | :27:57. | :27:58. | |
works. The survey says it has evidence on 28% of people think all | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
or most MPs are corrupt. But that isn't true, is it? Absolute | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
nonsense. I think we need to get away from the idea that donating to | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
politics is some kind of. Does net by you influence? Very little, I | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
would say. Go back 20 years, even ten or 15 years to the whole issue | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
that Tony Blair had with cash for peerages. Things are really tight in | :28:14. | :28:15. | |
this country. We have an incredibly robust media. You lot away with | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
anything and rightly so. Compared to some of countries we do hold the is | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
spent on a referendum from a company that doesn't declare where that | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
money has come from I don't think things are tight. And there is a | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
major problem with trust in British politics. Politicians, no matter | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
what their platform or what party they offer are not going to be? When | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
?2 million is spent on referendum from a company that doesn't declare | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
where that money has come from I don't think things are tight. And | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
there is a major problem with trust in British politics. Politicians, no | :28:39. | :28:40. | |
matter what their platform or what party they often are not | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
The position of Prime Minister comes with many powers of patronage - | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
like making appointments to public bodies, and dishing out gongs | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
PMs also get to hand out the keys to a handful of so-called "grace | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
and favour" buildings, including the grand country house | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
It's traditionally the official residence of the Foreign Secretary, | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
but Theresa May has granted access to Chevening not | :29:07. | :29:08. | |
just to Boris Johnson, but also the Brexit Secretary | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
David Davis, and the International Trade Secretary Liam Fox. | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
However, this week Dr Fox told a fringe meeting at the Conservative | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
conference that he won't be staying at Chevening, saying | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
to command the attention of the electorate when deploying arguments | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
if they don't overcome this trust issues. Duncan Hames, thank you | :29:24. | :29:35. | |
Here's Ellie with our Daily Politics low-down on the top official | :29:36. | :29:37. | |
In no particular order, bat at number five it's Chequers' | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
thousand acre 16th century Buckinghamshire gaffe | :29:42. | :29:42. | |
Last year the Prime Minister's office paid just over | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Well, think of all those light bulbs! | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
But it also boasts a nice local, The Plough, perfect | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
for entertaining your mates, like the President of China. | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
They even offer free childcare, or so thought David Cameron, | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
who once left his daughter there by mistake. | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
At four at Bute House in Edinburgh's desirable Charlotte Square. | :29:58. | :29:59. | |
It's the official residence of the Scottish First Minister. | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
A nice pad for lunch with girlfriends, it's also got | :30:03. | :30:04. | |
great steps, crucial for all those staged photos. | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
At three, it's Hillsborough Castle, home to the Secretary of State | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
for Northern Ireland, when they're there, but they do | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
occasionally have to slum it with a lodger... | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
It's also the official residence of Her Majesty The Queen | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
In a number two, it's Dorneywood, another Buckinghamshire pad. | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
21 rooms, 215 acres and there for any Minister of the Crown | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
the Prime Minister of the day sees fit. | :30:30. | :30:31. | |
Usually that tends to be the Chancellor of the Exchequer, | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
but in the late 90s when Gordon Brown decided he didn't | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
need it, it was used by John Prescott, the then Deputy PM | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
And a number one, it's Chevening in Kent, built in the early 17th | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
century and set in 3,500 acres, it's usually been where foreign | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
secretaries get to rattle around in slippers or host big dinners | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
This house goes with the job and when I say it goes with the job, | :30:51. | :30:59. | |
This time round Theresa May wants these three to share it. | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
Reportedly Liam Fox says he prefers Dorset. | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
But come on boys, there's plenty of space for even those egos, | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
Political historian Seth Thevoz is here. | :31:10. | :31:20. | |
Is Liam Fox making a terrible mistake, missing out on Chevening? | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Well, look, successive ministers always had their own decisions about | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
whether or not to use these places. The reality is that every minister | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
is incredibly busy. They have got a department to run and work as an MP | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
and they have a Kones quid to mind at the weekend. The idea that they | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
have got time to pop off and spend time in the country houses is | :31:44. | :31:45. | |
lieutenant crews. You're probably right. I hadn't realised how grand | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
Chevening is, become the property of the British Government? None are | :31:50. | :31:51. | |
owned by the British Government. They are owned by various trusts. In | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
the case of Dorneywood, it is the National Trust, its gardens are open | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
to the public and it is a rather complicated legal arrangement, but | :32:01. | :32:02. | |
they haven't had them for long. It is less than a century ago that | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
Chequers, the first of the trio came into the country's hands. That was | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
because David Lloyd George who was Prime Minister at the time was the | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
first Prime Minister to not come from a land of gentry background and | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
not have his own private country house and it was an embarrassment. | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
To make up for this, this was gifted to the nation by Arthur Lee who | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
became Lord Lee. I had wonder why, why? Yes. You could see it would be | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
useful from that point of view, if you are a Foreign Secretary and now | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
we've got three seconds of state perhaps needing to host dinner | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
parties, they will be able to use it? You've got to remember, it is | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
not as if this is something which would never be needed. The | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
alternative costs of hiring out hotels and conferencing banqueting | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
facilities could go into the millions. Chequers has a running | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
cost of ?700,000 a year, if there were never used, it would be a | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
waste, but if they are making frequent use of it, it is a net | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
savings to the Government. There you go, they are cost effective. Have | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
you ever been? I'm waiting for my invitation. Cold come. Cold come. It | :33:14. | :33:24. | |
will come. In a way, there is nothing wrong with our great | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
ministers being able to host particularly foreign guests in | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
lovely places. Do you think Liam Fox is doing this for appearances or he | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
can't bear the thought of having a roe da with Boris Johnson and David | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
Davis is that tiresome? You're probably right. They're incredibly | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
busy, Liam Fox travels a lot and so does Boris Johnson. Just thinks he | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
can do without it and if it saves money, great. Nick Clegg said he | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
couldn't stand the place when he was Deputy Prime Minister. Does that | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
surprise you when he said that? He went on to say he only used it once | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
or twice a month which strikes me as a high usage actually! I hope you | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
get to enjoy them at some stage, thank you for coming in. | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz. | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
The question was what career move is Tony Blair thinking of doing? | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
A) Going on Strictly Come Dancing, b) Becoming Secretary General | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
of the UN, c) Top Gear Presenter, or d) Returning to frontline | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
Where's I'm A Celebrity? Well, you can have a chat with his PR people? | :34:22. | :34:33. | |
None of them pay enough for Mr Blair. I can't see it. You don't. | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
Which one was it just to clarify? Well, in reality he wants to | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
apparently potentially come back to British politics. You don't think it | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
will happen? I can see why he wants to find a bigger purpose now he made | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
so much money, but the problem is, there is too much baggage there. | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
Thank you very much for being our guest of the day. | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
For now, it's time to say goodbye to Isabel Oakeshott. | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on the EU. | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
We'll be discussing Brexit, climate change and | :35:09. | :35:10. | |
First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe - | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
Theresa May kicked off the week with that announcement... | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
We will invoke Article 50 no later than the end of March next year. | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
So even the most mathematically challenged of us can deduce that | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
Britain could leave the EU by summer 2019. | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
Over in Strasbourg, the European Parliament's chief | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
Brexit negotiator warned that the EU should not compromise in Brexit | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
talks on its four founding principles. | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
Freedom of movement, capital, goods and services. | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
The new EU border force was launched on Thursday, aiming at stopping | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
the dozens of migrants who attempt to reach Balkan member states over | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
Hungary rejected the EU's quota for migrant resettlement | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
in a referendum, that is the people who voted. | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
Half the voting population failed to make it to the ballot boxes. | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
And in the vote attended by the UN Secretary General, | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
MEPs backed the world's first global agreement | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
on curbing carbon emissions, which was then ratified by other | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
It's set to come into force in a month's time. | :36:11. | :36:21. | |
And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
by the Ukip MEP Jonathan Arnott, and the Green MEP Molly Scott Cato. | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail, | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
the ratification of the Paris climate change agreement. | :36:34. | :36:35. | |
You were in favour, why? Well, obviously we are all agreed now that | :36:36. | :36:44. | |
chi mat change is the greatest threat facing humanity and it is | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
significant that the world's countries have come to go and agreed | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
the treaty and it has come into force quickly because people are | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
focussed on this. There are two issues, moving rapidly towards | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
renewables like they are doing in Germany and the other thing is | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
focussing on the aspect of land that can be used for carbon capture. I | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
think now we're leaving the Common Agricultural Policy, we can make | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
sure that when we give subsidies to farmers we do that in return for | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
them dealing with climate change through the way they farm. Why did | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
he vote against it? Two reasons, first of all I believe that the | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
decisions should be taken at Westminster by our Parliament in | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
Westminster and not through the European Union. We should decide for | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
ourselves which international agreements we should sign up to. | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
Secondly, my concerns is we're going, often we are putting the cart | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
before the horse in response to low-carbon emissions. My view is | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
that, particularly when you were to point where you've got pensioners | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
who have to struggle to choose between heating and eating in the | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
winter, when energy bills are going up and up and up, what you have to | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
do is, you have to get the technology right and make sure you | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
have the right renewables with the technology right and make them | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
affordable. That's a research and development question. We need to | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
make sure we're doing that. Will it work then? If you take on what | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
Jonathan Arnott is saying. Will it work in practise? Well, we already | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
see governments committing to this and there is a lot of political | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
direction now and political travel, but I think also businesses are | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
coming on board and one of my key concerns as we make the transition | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
to a renewable economy, we don't want to see the benefits accruing to | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
banks and large companies. We can allow fention funds to invest in the | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
infrastructure and the money will come back to them. It is a lot of | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
support, 73 nations ratified, they are counting for 57% of the world's | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
greenhouse gas emissions. So in a sense there is a consensus of sorts | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
behind an agreement like this, which in the future should make energy | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
costs as renewable energy is getting cheaper better for everyone? I think | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
there are certain issues there as well where what we're looking at the | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
moment is China building up to another 400 coal fired power | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
stations and China increasing its emissions far, beyond anything that | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
the entire UK output is. So there are certainly global questions and | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
the global questions have to be answered by getting the technology | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
right. All right. On Thursday, the Ukip MEP Steven Woolfe was | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
hospitalised after what was described as an altercation with a | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
fellow Ukip MEP, Mike Hookem at European Parliament in Strasbourg. | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
Early reports suggested Steven Woolfe was unconscious | :39:31. | :39:32. | |
and in a serious condition, but by the afternoon he was awake | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
and tweeted that he was feeling "brighter, happier | :39:36. | :39:37. | |
The incident came just a day after Steven Woolfe declared | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
that he would stand for the leadership of Ukip, | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
following Diane James' announcement that she was standing down | :39:47. | :39:48. | |
The other MEP involved in the altercation, Mike Hookem has been | :39:49. | :39:57. | |
talking to the BBCment he says he didn't throw a punch at his | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
colleague and nor did he injure Steven Woolfe There was no punches | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
thrown and no digs, there was nothing. People would term hands | :40:09. | :40:17. | |
bags at dawn. A bit of a scuffle. The other door he came through | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
opened up. I was not holding hillment I didn't push him. He fell | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
back into that room on to an MEP that was stood inside the room. | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
Well, that was Mike Hookem giving his account of what happened. Were | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
you there? No, I wasn't there. I arrived at the meeting 15 minutes | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
late because it was called at short notice and I had get to there from | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
my hotel room. I have only been able to piece together what happened from | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
speaking to a number of my colleagues. What have they said to | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
you? My impression there was a little bit of animosity at the start | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
of the meeting. That there was discussion about Steven Woolfe | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
having had discussions about defecting to another party which | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
Mike Hookem took umbrage at. We were then and I'm then told and I must | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
stress I'm recounting what other people said to me, but they are | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
saying to me that then Steven Woolfe took off his jacket and basically | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
said to Mike Hookem let's sort this outside or words to that effect. | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
Steven Woolfe's position as he says it as that he was wanting to discuss | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
it in private, that he wasn't suggesting a physical fight with | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
Mike Hookem who is pretty much of pensionable age. So but for whatever | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
reason, Mike Hookem, having heard that, I think if anyone says let's | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
deal with this outside, I think people start to get the impression | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
that some form of physical altercation. Maybe in Ukip meetings, | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
but not necessarily elsewhere? I have been in Ukip for 15 years and I | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
have never come across one like that one and I'm glad that I arrived at | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
that meeting late, but then what happened when they went outside, as | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
I understand it, they had gone outside the room and therefore, | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
there weren't witness to say that. So in terms of... Were punches | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
thrown? Who threw the first punch and who acted aggressively? That is | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
something that you're not going to get anybody to comment on. So | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
they're being investigated by the party and now the European | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
Parliament is investigating. Do you think they have both brought the | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
party into disrepute? I'm struggling about knowing exactly what happened | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
because obviously other people are involved. Let me put, other people | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
were the ones who were the witnesses to it and I wasn't. But let me put | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
it this way, this really portrays Ukip in an appalling light. The way | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
I look at this is our hard-working members, the people who go out and | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
put leaflets through doors and the people who have worked hard for this | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
party, year in and year out, they expect better of their MEPs than | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
what has been seen over the last 24 hours. Frankly they have a right to | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
expect better and I think it is absolutely disgusting that this | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
incident happened. Our members and activists have a right to expect | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
better and frankly the general public have a right to expect far | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
better too. Should they be suspended? That's a matter for the | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
party hierarchy to determine, but I mean, that is for them to decide, | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
not me. Right. What about, who would you support in a leadership contest? | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
I haven't decided yet partly because I don't know whether someone like | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
Paul Nuttall would be prepared to throw his hat in the ring. It is | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
clear from what we have seen from this situation that obviously, it | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
must surely be obvious to anybody having seen this, that Steven Woolfe | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
and of course, Mike Hookem, but I don't think Mike would put his hat | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
into the ring, surely, they can't now consider either of them could | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
stand in a leadership contest, surely to goodness. The European | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
Parliament now is investigating, the president put out a press release | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
saying words to that effect. What sanctions do they have? I've worked | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
alongside Steven Woolfe because he is an my committee and I speak on | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
finance and he speaks on finance and I found him to be a decent person to | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
work with, but the important point with this story is that Ukip are | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
bringing our country into disrepute. It is appalling when you see | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
somebody collapsed on the bridge in the European Parliament and I think | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
they have been doing this for sometime behaving with disrespect | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
and rudeness and now it has broken out beyond the chamber. Martin | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
Schulz says he will investigate this. I don't know whether he will | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
involve the police, but he will start inside the Parliament, if it | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
is obvious there has been an assault, that's a police matter. A | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
Conservative is going to be leading that investigation. We will be | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
waiting for the results of Ukip's inquiry and the one being run by the | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
European Parliament. In her speech to the Conservative | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
conference, Theresa May made it clear she will ensure Britain's | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
new arrangement with the EU will end the free movement of people and end | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
the European Court of Justice having So what does that mean | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
for our Brexit negotiations, when they start following | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
the triggering of Article 50 at some point before the end | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
of March next year? Our correspondent Kevin Connolly has | :45:21. | :45:22. | |
been testing the mood at the European Parliament | :45:23. | :45:24. | |
in Strasbourg. A busy day at the European | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
Parliament, and a busy week in British politics, | :45:29. | :45:30. | |
because we know a bit Not a deadline, of course, | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
but a sort of rough timetable. The Europeans here so there will be | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
no negotiating until Britain sets out its stall, but might there be | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
a bit of manoeuvring A question for the | :45:44. | :45:45. | |
Parliament's President. Talks are permanently | :45:46. | :45:54. | |
happening, that's normal. People speak to each other, | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
but to discuss with each other But it's going to become more | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
concrete through those talks, which aren't negotiations, | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
before you start negotiating? With me, nobody is concretely | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
speaking about it. Brexit is a big talking point here, | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
and given the scale and complexity of the talking to come, | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
there are those who agree that it The sooner we come up with the final | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
agreement, the better. Everybody would have something | :46:24. | :46:34. | |
to lose, if it was too much Our laws will not be made | :46:35. | :46:43. | |
in Brussels, but in Westminster. The judges interpreting those laws | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
will sit not in Luxembourg... Much will depend now, of course, | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
on Theresa May and how she handles So how are Europe's parliamentarians | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
judging what they are hearing? I think it's good that there is a | :46:58. | :47:05. | |
decision to trigger the Article 50. I think the better thing is that | :47:06. | :47:15. | |
on the UK side there is no agreement on how to negotiate it, | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
or what to negotiate. So tough talks coming up | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
for the UK, you think? Yes, I think it will be tough, | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
although not punishing. So Strasbourg is waiting to hear | :47:24. | :47:25. | |
more, much more, from London. And don't forget, all | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
this really matters. Europe's parliamentarians | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
have a vote on any proposed Brexit deal, and if they don't like it, | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
well, they could veto it. Molly Scott Cato, do you accept we | :47:36. | :47:55. | |
won't be a full member of the single market following Brexit? It seems | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
clear to May has ruled out free movement of labour and ruled out the | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
European Court of Justice having jurisdiction over British law. That | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
pretty much settled for? When we listened to her speech we heard, it | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
sounds like we're going towards hard Brexit and that is how her speech | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
was received in Strasbourg on the European end of the negotiation. I | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
think we should be aware of the great risks that poses to our | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
economy. A lot of jobs in this country, people working for | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
multinational corporations and they are here they are part of the single | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
market and can sell to other countries also part of the single | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
market. Why would the remaining 27 member states want to punish the UK? | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
We import more from the EU than we export. What would be the point of | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
putting punishing tariffs on our goods? We are at risk of seeing this | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
from a British perspective and Tory perspective, about trade and | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
economy. Isn't that important? In terms of France and Germany in the | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
aftermath of the Second World War was about political freedom on the | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
four freedoms underpin that. One of those is freedom of movement, and if | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
we don't accept that, we won't be able to trade freely in the single | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
market. We could have access to the single market and could still get | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
away without having to have the freedom of movement rules. That's a | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
British view. The French Prime Minister... We just heard that. | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
Francois Hollande last nights in Britain will suffer the consequences | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
if they go for what is being termed as they had Brexit, withdrawing, no | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
membership of the single market and not signing up to any freedom of | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
movement. Hollande won't be in place by the time any meaning filled | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
deal... You don't think his successor will feel the same? What's | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
happening here is the European Union is setting out their negotiating | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
position. What we need to do is set out our negotiating position and | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
then you have an negotiation. The danger we have at the moment, it | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
seems to me in British politics that far too many people are hearing a | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
negotiating position coming from the European Union and saying that | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
negotiating position is where we will end up. It's a little bit if I | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
when to buy a car and there was a list price on that car, I will | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
negotiate that price down. I would simply say, the person in the | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
salesroom is telling me this car is this price, there's no possible way | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
of any movement from that. And actually, when you look at the | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
Lisbon Treaty, article eight of the Lisbon Treaty makes it very, very | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
clear, that negotiations will be conducted in a spirit of | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
neighbourliness and cooperation. That might not be the reality. We | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
have heard European leader after European leader say is -- thing if | :50:52. | :51:00. | |
there could be a domino effect. They are going to be talking to. Is that | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
all it is? In the end, won't they just strike a deal that is | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
beneficial for both sides? I think the problem is seeing this as an | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
economic deal-making system. To them is a political structure, a | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
political union they value strongly without those four freedoms, it | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
won't hold together. Their priority is keeping the union together and we | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
are secondary to that, and economic negotiations are secondary to that. | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
Are using the Germans aren't interested in a good economic deal, | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
a good trade deal with the UK outside of the EU? It's not a | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
significant of them as is to ask on its 12% of our economy and only 4% | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
of our economy tied up in his stride. There is three times as much | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
importance for them, for us, in terms of getting it right. Except we | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
just heard from the one -- from one of the MEPs it would be tough talks | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
but not punishing. When you look ahead to invoking Article 50, when | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
the talks really begin and we see exactly whose cards are on the | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
table, will it not be a case that MEPs in Europe will look at it | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
practically and pragmatically and not emotionally? I think in some | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
ways they have to. What would be the point of MEPs if we were to come up | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
with a deal that works the UK, that works for the other EU countries, if | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
we're to come up with a deal that actually recognises the UK's | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
strengths come and frankly that's one thing I want to see Theresa May | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
doing, playing the strong hand we have in many areas. If we came up | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
with a deal that works for everyone, in whose interests would it possibly | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
be for the European Parliament to veto such a deal? Would you think | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
should happen to EU nationals who are here? Should there be a clear | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
statement from the government to save their position and their future | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
is here are 100% guaranteed, as David Davis said but Liam Fox | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
wouldn't? Yes, I think there should be. People who are living and | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
working in the UK legally, we can't say to them, you've got to go back | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
to the country that you've come from. Just like the Spanish | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
government would never say to British citizens living in Spain. | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
They might if there is a negotiation. I think the point is, | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
if we say that's not an issue on the table, then they wouldn't. And | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
frankly, I think the Spanish government would recognise that | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
Brits going out to retire and live abroad in Spain are taking a lot of | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
money on bringing that money into Spain. | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
With many EU countries facing eurosceptic movements of their own, | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
MEPs this week have been discussing a scheme which its backers say | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
could increase positive feelings towards the European Union. | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
The idea is to give every young person across the EU | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
a free inter-rail pass for their eighteenth birthday. | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
The European Commission says it will now consider the proposal. | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
This is a wonderful, enchanting idea. | :53:50. | :53:59. | |
The idea of a free Interrail pass for 18-year-olds, | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
investing in young people, investing in training | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
for European citizenship, enabling people to travel around | :54:05. | :54:06. | |
Europe promoting better understanding and knowledge | :54:07. | :54:08. | |
As we've heard in the past, Europe's all about emotion and one | :54:09. | :54:20. | |
way of feeling emotion is by travelling around | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
the Continent and that's the fundamental idea underpinning | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
this debate and I must say I'm very grateful to the head of the EBP | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
Group for having brought together an idea voiced by many | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
people during the State of the Union speech. | :54:44. | :54:45. | |
Thank you and I love trains and I love transport | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
and I want to continue to make it really easy for young people | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
to travel by train across Europe and across the EU and outside the EU | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
If you spend 361 euros for each 18-year-old in the EU on this | :54:55. | :55:04. | |
hair-brained irrelevance, it will cost 1.9 billion a year. | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
And even by the standards of the EU, this is madness. | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
TRANSLATION: Europe looks like a leaf in the autumn. | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
It is fatigued by its numerous crisis. | :55:17. | :55:18. | |
It is only young people that can transform this European oldsom | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
One of the people behind the campaign for free inter-rail | :55:22. | :55:30. | |
passes for eighteen year olds is Vincent-Immanuel Herr, | :55:31. | :55:32. | |
Welcome to the programme. Why did you launch the campaign? Hello, | :55:33. | :55:44. | |
thanks for having me, it's wonderful to be here. We launch the programme | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
as a result of a inter-rail trip we took ourselves this me and my | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
colleague travelled to 14 European countries. We found out how is | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
important is to experience Europe first hand. Before this trip we were | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
already Europeans in theory, but the trip turned us into Europeans out of | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
experience. It wasn't just textbooks but personal experience. We made | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
friendships, saw the beauty of diversity and made us appreciate | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
Europe much more. I think a lot of European people don't have that | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
opportunity and we really need to give them that opportunity, so all | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
Europeans know what Europe is about. It sounds wonderful but is it worth | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
the money? I think it is absolutely worth the money. 2 billion euros | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
sounds a lot at first, but this is a single-digit percentage of the | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
budget. A very small amount of the EU budget. If you think about the | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
long-term, the systemic effects of this move to strengthen European | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
identity, to foster cross cultural exchange and dialogue between youth | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
and of future generations, I think it is an invaluable programme that | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
will fastly further European integration. Who will it really | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
benefit, do you think, Vincent? You still have to have quite a lot of | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
money as an 18-year-old to fund the accommodation and the time away, | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
even with this sort of money behind it. I think this is a very good | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
point. We have thought about it a lot, talks with MEPs and think tanks | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
about this problem that you are mentioning here. I think the main | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
idea is you kind of level the playing field, that you make the | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
entry into mobility easier for youths across the board, and I think | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
it be worthwhile to build a couch surfing network around this idea, | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
the kind of see into Rela 's help others. Something like air BMB. Yes. | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
I went into railing and at the time it was expensive. Did you go? Yes. | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
Do you think it is a good idea? A great idea. It is good to see young | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
people being positive about Europe, we know young people voted to remain | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
and they see themselves as Europeans. I hope we could | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
participate in this even after we leave the EU. One of your colleagues | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
called this bribery and a rotten apple, that sounds harsh? I think | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
the point is MEPs have been very clear, they say they want to spend | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
taxpayers money, money that people have worked hard to earn, and being | :58:18. | :58:24. | |
taxed on, to provide this so that people can feel more European. And | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
frankly, I think travel is a great thing, I think it's great for young | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
people to travel, but I don't see, personally, that that is around the | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
boundaries of the European Union. My brother had a great time going out | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
to Malawi and working as an aid worker for six months. Let me just | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
get Vincent to respond. Very briefly, we any have a few seconds. | :58:50. | :58:57. | |
I think in a way this is taking the benefits of Rasmussen and applying | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
them to use. It is one of the most successful programmes that has | :59:04. | :59:05. | |
brought youth together and this would bring all youth together. I | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
think it would really benefit all of us so much, and move this continent | :59:12. | :59:19. | |
forward, including young Brits... It will include young Brits? At least | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
for now, yes. That is it for now from all of us, Cabaye. -- goodbye. | :59:25. | :59:32. |