07/12/2016 Daily Politics


07/12/2016

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MPs vote on a Brexit timetable for the first time as Theresa May

:00:38.:00:44.

But with a small majority, how hard will it be for her

:00:45.:00:49.

Nicola Sturgeon has said a second referendum on Scottish Independence

:00:50.:00:55.

Will the Government do a deal with the SNP

:00:56.:00:59.

The Liberal Democrats have been handed down the maximum fine

:01:00.:01:09.

for failing to report election spending totalling almost

:01:10.:01:13.

?200,000 during the 2015 General Election campaign.

:01:14.:01:17.

Are greater powers needed to enforce electoral law?

:01:18.:01:21.

And what pleasure can be derived from the spelling

:01:22.:01:23.

How do you spell howler? Don't ask me tricky questions.

:01:24.:01:43.

All that in the next 90 minutes and with with us for the duration,

:01:44.:01:47.

we've played safe with two MPs whose names are easy to spell.

:01:48.:01:50.

Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis and Shadow Brexit Minister,

:01:51.:01:52.

Jenny Chapman - that's Jenny with a "Y".

:01:53.:01:54.

Now the Government appear to have seen off a rebellion by its own MPs,

:01:55.:02:02.

who had threatened to vote with Labour on a motion calling

:02:03.:02:07.

for the Government to publish an outline of the plan for Brexit

:02:08.:02:09.

before negotiations with the EU begin.

:02:10.:02:15.

Number 10 now accept the motion, having amended it

:02:16.:02:17.

to call for Article 50 - which begins those negotiations -

:02:18.:02:20.

to be triggered by the end of March next year.

:02:21.:02:22.

So, Theresa May hasn't fallen at the first fence

:02:23.:02:28.

but there will be more parliamentary tests ahead and the parliamentary

:02:29.:02:31.

has a majority of just nine and a working majority

:02:32.:02:39.

of 13 once Sinn Fein MPs, who don't vote, are

:02:40.:02:41.

The next hurdle is the Supreme Court where the Government's appealing

:02:42.:02:45.

against a ruling that Parliament should be consulted before

:02:46.:02:49.

If this is defeated there will be a vote in Parliament,

:02:50.:02:56.

possibly a tightly worded bill that's difficult to amend.

:02:57.:02:59.

Labour say they will vote in favour - so it should pass -

:03:00.:03:02.

but it's likely they and others will attempt to amend it.

:03:03.:03:06.

And then of course the bill will have to go through the Lords,

:03:07.:03:09.

where there is a big Remain majority.

:03:10.:03:12.

Once these hurdles have been jumped it's the Great Repeal Bill,

:03:13.:03:15.

The idea is it will incorporate all existing EU regulations

:03:16.:03:23.

into British law and the eventual repeal on the 1972

:03:24.:03:28.

However, there's plenty for mischief making MPs to get their teeth

:03:29.:03:37.

into with endless amendments that could slow the Bill's

:03:38.:03:39.

Then once on the final straight, Mrs May could fall at the final

:03:40.:03:52.

furlong right at the end of the negotiation process,

:03:53.:03:54.

where there could be pressure for yet another vote on the final

:03:55.:03:57.

Brexit deal, and if the Liberal Democrats get their way,

:03:58.:03:59.

maybe even another referendum on the deal.

:04:00.:04:01.

Thank you. Brandon Lewis. Can you give us any idea what it is you are

:04:02.:04:08.

going to publish? Well, the Prime Minister's been very clear and the

:04:09.:04:13.

motion is clear. We are outline... I don't want to interrupt you right

:04:14.:04:16.

away. Any time people sit on these chairs and say the Prime Minister or

:04:17.:04:20.

the Leader of the Opposition has been very clear, it means we are

:04:21.:04:23.

about to be splattered with mud that we can't see through. No mud just

:04:24.:04:27.

very simple in that first part next year, when we trigger article #50,

:04:28.:04:32.

as the motion says today -- Article 50. Will there be a white paper? We

:04:33.:04:37.

will look at that and the Government will outline that in due course. A

:04:38.:04:41.

green paper? As I say we'll work through what will be published. I

:04:42.:04:44.

thought you told me it was very clear. As the motion that Labour put

:04:45.:04:48.

down today says, we will outline that plan before we trigger Article

:04:49.:04:52.

50. I'm trying to work out what the format, the vehicle for the plan,

:04:53.:04:55.

because that will give us an idea of how much substance there will be in

:04:56.:05:00.

it. So it is very clear but not clear enough that it is a white

:05:01.:05:05.

paper or a Greene paper or a leaflet or maybe back of a fag packet.

:05:06.:05:10.

Obviously there is a plan put forward Parliament. But what will be

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the formula? What will be put before Parliament? Well we have not

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outlined that. We will do that in due course. We are not ready to do

:05:20.:05:23.

that. We will do that when we get into next year. Clear as mud. It is

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what the motion has said. The Government will outline its plans.

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We have down in broad terms, the principles for exiting the European

:05:39.:05:42.

Union. So will you not publish anything that we don't know already?

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We have been clear, about our laws, free trade negotiation, and

:05:49.:05:52.

immigration in place. And we will publish that plan, as we publish...

:05:53.:05:58.

You will publish what we already know? The Prime Minister has said

:05:59.:06:02.

and outlined at the party conference speech the broad principles. One of

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the key tests will be for Labour and the Liberal Democrats to stand up

:06:06.:06:08.

and vote for what British people voted for and be clear about that.

:06:09.:06:11.

We have outlined what the principles are. Today's vote will be a good

:06:12.:06:16.

chance for Labour to be clear about whether they are for exiting the

:06:17.:06:21.

European Union or whether they want a second referendum. We had a front

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bench person asking that. Jo asked if you will expand on what we know

:06:33.:06:35.

already. For example, free trade. If you want to be able to do free trade

:06:36.:06:39.

deals, it requires you to be outside the customs union, but the

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Government has not yet told us whether we will or not be outside

:06:43.:06:48.

the customs union. I'm not asking you to answer that but will whatever

:06:49.:06:51.

is published clarify matters? Well you are right. Part is we are at the

:06:52.:06:55.

start of the negotiations, that will come through the negotiations. Not

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what we want, we have to get agreement with the 27 countries. But

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I ask, will the green, white paper, back of a fag packet paper, clarify

:07:09.:07:12.

issues like that? We'll outline what we will publish when we publish it

:07:13.:07:17.

to trigger Article 50. The broad principles we want to go for have

:07:18.:07:21.

been outlined by the Prime Minister and discussed in Parliament. You

:07:22.:07:23.

have listened to the minister. He hasn't told us anything we didn't

:07:24.:07:29.

know already. I'm in the quite sure, what has Labour achieved with this

:07:30.:07:32.

motion? We have a victory, we are pleased about that. What is the

:07:33.:07:36.

victory? What we have now is a commitment to publishing a plan and

:07:37.:07:39.

we would like to see this in good time, to the end of March, so we

:07:40.:07:44.

want it in January. We would like a white paper. But you haven't got

:07:45.:07:48.

that commitment. We haven't got a commitment to a white paper.

:07:49.:07:52.

Honestly we are not hung up on what format it takes. You want some

:07:53.:07:56.

details. We need more than we have, that's clear. The trouble with the

:07:57.:08:02.

principles that have been outlined so far, is that ministers have

:08:03.:08:07.

contradicted one another on them. So, last Thursday, you had David

:08:08.:08:13.

Davis de-Despatch Box saying - we could be could be contributing to

:08:14.:08:17.

the EU budget even after we left and Boris at the weekend or Mr Johnson

:08:18.:08:21.

as we are now supposed to call him, saying that is hae just speculation

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and we don't think that's glpg He said they may make contributions but

:08:26.:08:29.

they would be small. I'm trying to work out what is it... There is no

:08:30.:08:34.

clarity. Exactly. So what is it you have got the Government to concede

:08:35.:08:38.

Well, we want a plan. Well, are you happy with what the minister said

:08:39.:08:43.

there? No, I was not happy. So what have you achieved? If when they

:08:44.:08:46.

publish something that they call a plan, it is insufficient, then we

:08:47.:08:49.

are going to have to go through this all again, aren't we? We had to

:08:50.:08:53.

force the Government to agree what we asked it to do today. They have

:08:54.:08:58.

had to back down to do this and we will come back and do this again,

:08:59.:09:01.

should we need to, should they publish something. So were you

:09:02.:09:06.

trying tie mend a plan? Were you trying to amend the plan We may need

:09:07.:09:11.

to. We may need to see it first. All right. How do you think the Labour

:09:12.:09:17.

Lords are going to react to this? We know, by in large, the Labour MPs

:09:18.:09:22.

are going to trigger Article 50. There will be caveats, complaints

:09:23.:09:25.

and so on, but in the end they are going to vote for it. What about the

:09:26.:09:31.

Labour Lords? I think the Labour Lords are quite respectful of the

:09:32.:09:34.

fact that there has been a referendum. I think they have

:09:35.:09:38.

concerns, as do many people, about the form of Brexit and Labour

:09:39.:09:43.

doesn't want to see a hard Brexit. But I think ultimately, the Lords

:09:44.:09:47.

may use the opportunities to challenge, to amend, to probe, but I

:09:48.:09:51.

don't see the Lords blocking Article 50. But in the end, just to clarify

:09:52.:09:57.

this, the Government puts something to Parliament - as yet unspecified -

:09:58.:10:03.

but it puts something to Parliament about its negotiating strategy, if I

:10:04.:10:07.

can put it no higher than that. And you may try to amend it or you may

:10:08.:10:12.

not like t but in the end, even if you fail to amend it, you still vote

:10:13.:10:17.

for Article 50? We have two opportunities - we will vote for

:10:18.:10:20.

Article 50. We have been saying that for months, which is why the

:10:21.:10:22.

Government's amendment today, you know really, we are quite relaxed

:10:23.:10:27.

about agreeing to that. Not all members are. Well not all of your

:10:28.:10:31.

members. What is the answer to my question. This is the usual politics

:10:32.:10:36.

in this. You know, it is a different kind of debate. Because we have got

:10:37.:10:39.

here by a referendum, it is different. And I accept that. But we

:10:40.:10:45.

will have to two opportunities. We will have the opportunity once we

:10:46.:10:48.

see the outline of the strategy to talk more widely across the country

:10:49.:10:52.

about it, to challenge the Government on it and to illicit

:10:53.:10:56.

change through that. There's also the Article 50 legislation. Now, I

:10:57.:11:00.

don't think there is such a thing as a bill which can be put forward

:11:01.:11:05.

which is unamendable. So, when we see that, bearing in mind what we

:11:06.:11:09.

have seen in the plan, there is an opportunity to then have further

:11:10.:11:14.

votes on what form of Brexit... But if there is legislation and you do

:11:15.:11:18.

fail to amend that, you will still, in the end, go with Article 50? That

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has been our commitment. I understand that. Will the Government

:11:23.:11:29.

- when it is all done and dusted, and we have a deal on the terms on

:11:30.:11:35.

which we are leaving the European Union. It may even be interim, it

:11:36.:11:40.

may not cover everything, but it is a clear - this is what we have

:11:41.:11:44.

agreed with the other 27 members. Will that go before Parliament?

:11:45.:11:48.

Well, it depends on the format that takes. That is a long way off yet.

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That could be a year, as we saw yesterday potentially later than,

:11:55.:11:57.

two 18. Until we know what the format is, it is too early to answer

:11:58.:12:02.

the question. Hold on. What would be the case for not putting that to

:12:03.:12:06.

Parliament? It depends on what goes through Parliament with the great

:12:07.:12:10.

repeal bill and everything over the next year or so. It is too early to

:12:11.:12:13.

say. The great repeal bill has nothing to do with our terms of

:12:14.:12:16.

leaving. That's a mechanism by which you don't have to repeal every piece

:12:17.:12:22.

of European legislation on day 1. That's a process business there

:12:23.:12:26.

which gives you more time. What I'm asking is, when we come to the deal

:12:27.:12:30.

to be done, and the British people look at t the Lib Dems want another

:12:31.:12:35.

referendum. -- look at it. I take it you don't and Labour don't want

:12:36.:12:40.

another referendum. I don't see how you can have another referendum, at

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what point you can have it and what question you can put, before we have

:12:44.:12:50.

left But Labour front bedges in the last two weeks have been inferring

:12:51.:12:55.

to a second referendum. That may be the problems but the problem I'm

:12:56.:12:59.

grappling with, is what would be the case against Parliament. In essence

:13:00.:13:04.

this would be a treaty. Leaving the European Union would be an

:13:05.:13:07.

international treaty with 27 other countries, with the EU as an

:13:08.:13:11.

institution, to leave and my understanding is that treaties now

:13:12.:13:17.

have to go through Parliament? Well, this comes to, actually partially

:13:18.:13:22.

expects the report that Jenny was making around Boris Johnson and

:13:23.:13:26.

David Davis' comments, they were outlining what happens. This has

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never been done, nobody has left the European Union. So to outline what

:13:31.:13:34.

the process will be at the end of this in a year or two years' time

:13:35.:13:37.

whenever it comes, so too early to say. I'm not saying it wouldn't be

:13:38.:13:41.

but it is too early to outline that now, tie the Government to something

:13:42.:13:45.

now, when it is two years' ago. Surely it has to be approved by

:13:46.:13:50.

Parliament? If it is a treaty that requires parliamentary approval for

:13:51.:13:53.

that process that would be the case, we are not at that pointed, we are

:13:54.:13:56.

still some way away from that. All right. Are you clear about the plan?

:13:57.:13:58.

No. Now, with the House of Commons

:13:59.:14:01.

so finely balanced, key players in any potential Brexit votes

:14:02.:14:04.

will be the 54 MPs from Nicola Sturgeon's party

:14:05.:14:07.

campaigned strongly to Remain, so what could Theresa May possibly

:14:08.:14:10.

offer to help get the SNP on side? Might the promise of

:14:11.:14:13.

a second vote on Scottish That's what The Times

:14:14.:14:15.

suggests today. They report that ministers

:14:16.:14:20.

are considering allowing the Scottish Government to hold

:14:21.:14:22.

a second independence referendum after the UK has

:14:23.:14:25.

left the European Union. Let's ask the SNP's Europe

:14:26.:14:29.

spokesman, Stephen Gethins. Before we move on to that, Stephen,

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are you happy with the plan the government is now going to publish

:14:44.:14:49.

and linking it to the triggering of Article 50? We haven't seen any

:14:50.:14:55.

details yet, we are 167 days from the referendum, another 113 days

:14:56.:14:59.

until the end of March and we are no closer so I'm not happy because we

:15:00.:15:03.

haven't seen any more details yet again. What are you going to do in

:15:04.:15:06.

the debate then? We're not going to accept the government's

:15:07.:15:27.

Amendment. Frankly I think we are letting them off the hook. This has

:15:28.:15:30.

a huge impact on jobs, the economy and our livelihoods and we need much

:15:31.:15:32.

more detail... What will you do? Vote against. What do you think of

:15:33.:15:35.

Labour's position on this? I'm disappointed, we need to join

:15:36.:15:37.

together and hold the government's feature the fire on this. We are not

:15:38.:15:39.

getting the details. We will work with Labour when we can but if we

:15:40.:15:42.

are in different voting comes today that is just where we have to end

:15:43.:15:47.

up. Jenny? We have to think about why the government has chosen to

:15:48.:15:51.

amend the motion in the way it has. For months we have said we will not

:15:52.:15:57.

accept Article 50 and the government says, yes you will so they have done

:15:58.:16:04.

this to call our bluff. We will not fall for that, we'll be consistent

:16:05.:16:07.

and clear and say that we will not block Article 50 and we will vote

:16:08.:16:11.

accordingly -- we have said that we will not block Article 50. Stephen,

:16:12.:16:17.

had they been discussions between Westminster and the Scottish

:16:18.:16:21.

Government on a possible second referendum? I'm not sure if the

:16:22.:16:25.

Times has been hanging around outside No 10 looking for more

:16:26.:16:31.

scribbled notes! Maybe they found some? It seems extraordinary when

:16:32.:16:48.

we have no details of the government 's plans for leaving the EU they

:16:49.:16:52.

suddenly want to blog about independence. It is deflection from

:16:53.:16:54.

the problems they are having now. Is that a No, no discussions between

:16:55.:16:56.

Westminster and the Scottish Government on a second referendum?

:16:57.:16:59.

Nothing I'm aware of, it sounds like more scribbled notes, more

:17:00.:17:00.

deflection, we need plans, what their plans are on the single

:17:01.:17:03.

market, the freedom of movement, the customs union, guys you had six

:17:04.:17:06.

months, let's not deflect any more, give us something. Let's talk about

:17:07.:17:11.

something you want to talk about, a second referendum on independence,

:17:12.:17:15.

where do you want it? We're looking at a range of options. It depends on

:17:16.:17:17.

what the government comes up with. I think it's sensible to look at a

:17:18.:17:32.

range of options with the UK Government has to be open to taking

:17:33.:17:35.

the concerns of all the devolved administrations seriously, something

:17:36.:17:37.

else not covered today. The SNP and Plaid Cymru have put down an

:17:38.:17:39.

amendment stating that they must have a say on a final deal. Don't

:17:40.:17:42.

forget this has a huge impact on the responsibilities... It could be that

:17:43.:17:47.

all MPs have the final say on the final deal, Brandon says, we don't

:17:48.:17:51.

know quite what it will be at the end, whether it is a treaty that

:17:52.:17:55.

parliament votes on. On the issue of timing would you only want a second

:17:56.:18:00.

independence referendum before Brexit happens? What we want is to

:18:01.:18:05.

see some more detail. I think it is fair that we see more detail. For

:18:06.:18:10.

the UK Government to go off, they want to talk about independence

:18:11.:18:12.

suddenly when they still haven't dealt with the problems... I haven't

:18:13.:18:18.

had the government myself talking about a referendum. Let me put it

:18:19.:18:21.

another way. Let me give you one scenario. Let's say the government

:18:22.:18:26.

confirms leaving the supermarket and customs union. Would you want in

:18:27.:18:33.

that case a second independence referendum before Brexit happens? It

:18:34.:18:38.

would be highly likely of the deal was not in the interests of Scotland

:18:39.:18:42.

and did not respect the will of the Scottish people, that must be

:18:43.:18:47.

foremost in our minds. Would it be harder for you to win? We are not

:18:48.:18:54.

there yet. Remember we overturned a 30 point deficit last time. We are

:18:55.:18:59.

trying to get answers from the government over its Europe strategy.

:19:00.:19:02.

They are still in a mess and it is having an impact on jobs and

:19:03.:19:06.

everyone in the UK. This is why we are trying to hold them to account

:19:07.:19:09.

adequately and that is what I will be doing this afternoon. You say you

:19:10.:19:14.

are not they get. Is it diversionary tactics by the SNP -- you say you

:19:15.:19:22.

are not there yet. I cannot pin you down on when you want a second

:19:23.:19:25.

independence referendum. You certainly want one. Hold on. At a

:19:26.:19:33.

time when the UK Government is telling us nothing the First

:19:34.:19:38.

Minister was telling us about the rights of UK national silk or

:19:39.:19:41.

Scotland home that should be allowed to say, about freedom of movement

:19:42.:19:46.

and the single market. So we've set out areas that are a priority for us

:19:47.:19:50.

and time in the UK Government has set up nothing. Is it a red line?

:19:51.:19:55.

Single market membership is incredibly important especially

:19:56.:19:59.

given the impact on the food and drink university and don't forget

:20:00.:20:04.

the university sector, so important... The SNP has national

:20:05.:20:07.

referendum on Scottish independence which closed last week after

:20:08.:20:18.

receiving 2 million responses, when will you publish the results? It's a

:20:19.:20:21.

lot of responses so I'm pleased... When can be see the responses? It

:20:22.:20:23.

will take time to go through 2 million responses. It's a pretty

:20:24.:20:27.

good response rate. When will it be? It only takes weeks. Will we have it

:20:28.:20:33.

before Christmas? Let's get a bit of time, let's try and assess those

:20:34.:20:38.

responses. 2 million is a lot, Jo, it is good going. It is, thank you

:20:39.:20:44.

very much, Stephen. Anything in this report about a possible deal? If I

:20:45.:20:49.

remember correctly the source of that story was a source in the

:20:50.:20:53.

Scottish Government! We are very clear. We think the SNP should

:20:54.:20:58.

respect the referendum, not just of this year but also the independence

:20:59.:21:01.

referendum. We have had one, they should respect that and get on with

:21:02.:21:06.

governing... Why should they not have one, they will be a change in

:21:07.:21:10.

circumstances when the UK leaves the EU. A big enough material change, I

:21:11.:21:15.

suggest, to have a second referendum. The first referendum

:21:16.:21:21.

should Scotland wanted to stay part of the UK. And Great Britain voted

:21:22.:21:25.

this year to leave the EU. Our job is to focus on what the British

:21:26.:21:30.

people want. What they ask for and negotiate in years to come is out of

:21:31.:21:34.

the SNP. I would suggest they focus on getting things right in Scotland,

:21:35.:21:38.

education and other matters that are devolved and they are not even using

:21:39.:21:42.

the powers they have properly. What is the position of Labour because

:21:43.:21:46.

the deputy leader of Scottish Labour has said that Labour is neither

:21:47.:21:50.

Unionist non-Russian list and says, I have never considered myself a

:21:51.:21:55.

unionist. That sounds a big departure. What Kezia Dugdale has

:21:56.:22:00.

done is interesting in that she says that we need to rethink the way we

:22:01.:22:07.

organise our country. Let's take one constitutional crisis at a time!

:22:08.:22:11.

She's putting down markers, things she is important that we need to

:22:12.:22:15.

think about in the years to come. A perfectly good thing for her to

:22:16.:22:20.

do... Scottish Labour is moving away from this unionist position? It is

:22:21.:22:26.

developing its own identity and the leadership of Kezia, after what

:22:27.:22:30.

happened in the general election last year... Are you in favour of

:22:31.:22:40.

the union or not? I am. Is Scottish Labour still in favour? It is but

:22:41.:22:46.

you can't say that we will be the same way we were before June 20 15.

:22:47.:22:51.

She is asking questions, raising a debate and I think that is the right

:22:52.:22:55.

approach. An interesting move. It is not like we've never had this debate

:22:56.:23:03.

before! Goodbye to all my old notes. The good ones are worth keeping.

:23:04.:23:11.

How would you like your cuppa of English Brexit blend

:23:12.:23:13.

White, black or perhaps a shade of Earl Grey instead?

:23:14.:23:16.

Does it matter if Brexit tea is made with water that is soft or hard?

:23:17.:23:20.

Will a hard Brexit tea leave a bitter aftertaste?

:23:21.:23:22.

Perhaps it will taste better if you serve it up

:23:23.:23:25.

in some patriotic china - stamped with Lizzie's mug and draped

:23:26.:23:27.

Or perhaps you'd prefer your builders' in a crisp white,

:23:28.:23:32.

politically neutral and altogther more classy Daily Politics' mug.

:23:33.:23:45.

But Mrs May - if you're watching and you probably are -

:23:46.:23:48.

there's only one way to have

:23:49.:23:49.

one of these waiting for you when you get

:23:50.:23:51.

We've been on the brink of it, I think, once or twice,

:23:52.:24:16.

during the last week, but we've stepped back from it.

:24:17.:24:19.

Few boats expected such a ferocious storm and the fleet of over 300 that

:24:20.:24:28.

set out from Cowes in calm weather took the full force.

:24:29.:24:32.

The verdict of the jury, after a prolonged and careful

:24:33.:24:52.

investigation by them, I regard as totally fair,

:24:53.:24:54.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,

:24:55.:25:11.

send your answer to our special quiz e-mail address - that's

:25:12.:25:14.

Entries must arrive by 12.30 today, and you can see the full terms

:25:15.:25:20.

and conditions for Guess The Year on our website - that's

:25:21.:25:25.

It's coming up to midday here - just take a look at Big Ben -

:25:26.:25:37.

It has gone very dark and there! And somebody put a shilling in the

:25:38.:25:44.

meter? That's what we used to do as students although that was a long

:25:45.:25:45.

while ago! And fresh from yet more success -

:25:46.:25:47.

this time the Press Gazette awards, Journalist of the Year no less,

:25:48.:25:50.

Laura Kuenssberg is here. Congratulations again! Under

:25:51.:26:00.

pressure now, every week. When you don't get one we will point it out

:26:01.:26:02.

every week. But with Theresa May

:26:03.:26:03.

in the Gulf, David Lidington, who's Leader of the House,

:26:04.:26:06.

will be deputising for the PM. Facing him will be Shadow Foreign

:26:07.:26:08.

Secretary, Emily Thornberry. What, I hear you say,

:26:09.:26:11.

you've never heard of them? Fear not, here's Adam

:26:12.:26:14.

with the Daily Politics guide. As the longest-serving

:26:15.:26:27.

Europe Minister ever, David Lidington chomped croissants

:26:28.:26:32.

with David Cameron as they renegotiated our

:26:33.:26:34.

membership of the EU. Now, as Leader of the House,

:26:35.:26:36.

he shepherds government THE SPEAKER: Order,

:26:37.:26:39.

the Leader of the House is a renowned intellectual,

:26:40.:26:44.

noted not merely for carrying books around the place, but even

:26:45.:26:50.

for being seen reading them. "Lidders" has been the MP

:26:51.:26:53.

for Aylesbury since 1992 and he won Don't mention quizzes

:26:54.:26:56.

to Shadow Foreign Secretary He is the French Foreign Minister,

:26:57.:27:02.

do you know his name? For more than a decade she's

:27:03.:27:09.

represented Islington South, She's been loyal to him, but quit

:27:10.:27:13.

the Shadow Cabinet under Ed Miliband after tweeting this picture

:27:14.:27:20.

from a by-election, which was Talking of judges,

:27:21.:27:22.

she's married to one. So actually it's Lady Emily,

:27:23.:27:26.

thank you very much. We got there in the end! The editor

:27:27.:27:43.

kicked the projector! 16 millimetre film, it's very high-tech, you know!

:27:44.:27:48.

She normally just takes a sledgehammer to it. If it works! Not

:27:49.:27:57.

exactly the A team, not even the brother Mac team. Some people

:27:58.:28:04.

suggested they were more the C team. David Lidington is very well

:28:05.:28:08.

respected in the House of Commons or the little-known outside it, Emily

:28:09.:28:11.

Thornberry is known for sometimes saying controversial things that

:28:12.:28:14.

have landed her in trouble so it will be interesting. There's not now

:28:15.:28:21.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister. And that is why there isn't an

:28:22.:28:26.

automatic, I understand that if the Prime Minister is there, by

:28:27.:28:29.

convention, the Leader of the Opposition does not do it. It used

:28:30.:28:33.

to be like the number two on both sides. Or who ever was in the role

:28:34.:28:40.

of first secretary of State. David Cameron and latterly gave that

:28:41.:28:43.

position to George Osborne so he did it and did it well, and plainly

:28:44.:28:47.

loved every minute of it. Who knows, he might have been imagining he was

:28:48.:28:52.

practising! At that point! How the world turns. But Theresa May has

:28:53.:29:00.

taken a decision not to have a Deputy Prime Minister officially

:29:01.:29:03.

entitled and not to have anyone in the first Secretary of State role

:29:04.:29:06.

although we understand that Emily Thornberry was given a shadow first

:29:07.:29:09.

Secretary of State role just yesterday. Shadowing a position that

:29:10.:29:16.

is not there! The choices is under way in which Jeremy Corbyn has come

:29:17.:29:20.

up with titles and managed his top team in the last 18 months have not

:29:21.:29:24.

always be conventional, shall I put it like that. Am I right in thinking

:29:25.:29:29.

that what is said by either of them today will not matter at all? I

:29:30.:29:34.

think most people will focus on what happens afterwards when David Davis

:29:35.:29:38.

is responding in the debate that I know you have already discussed

:29:39.:29:42.

about the government's plan or lack of a planned on Brexit. What happens

:29:43.:29:56.

after PMQs? The debate on the Labour motion... Begins. So Labour has put

:29:57.:29:58.

a motion, the government is putting this amendment which Labour accepts,

:29:59.:30:03.

so when, the House will then vote on the amended Labour motion. Indeed.

:30:04.:30:11.

With the two biggest parties lining up overwhelmingly, maybe not 100%.

:30:12.:30:16.

Some Labour MPs like David Lambie have said they will not approve this

:30:17.:30:20.

amendment because they don't think it's worth the paper is to his

:30:21.:30:23.

written on but it will get through and there may not even be division.

:30:24.:30:28.

It may go to on the nod because it will be the assembly - SNP and the

:30:29.:30:36.

Lib Dems combined... Whether the Speaker of the House of Commons

:30:37.:30:40.

calls the division on this is not clear. Whether this may be

:30:41.:30:43.

insubstantial part thanks to the Labour position on this, some people

:30:44.:30:48.

not wondering why we bothering with this rigmarole of the Supreme Court?

:30:49.:30:53.

Why doesn't the government just put Article 50 before the House? Some

:30:54.:30:58.

senior Conservatives think that the government should have got on with

:30:59.:31:02.

it some time ago, put something before the House and a lot of people

:31:03.:31:06.

I've spoken to in the last couple of weeks think the smart politics would

:31:07.:31:10.

be on the day of the High Court division, just a short ill with the

:31:11.:31:15.

phrases that Theresa May has used repeatedly, operate with and trade

:31:16.:31:21.

within this single market, take back control of our borders, that is just

:31:22.:31:25.

four lines. It would have been backed overwhelmingly. She's chosen

:31:26.:31:29.

to dig their heels in and they are pursuing this Supreme Court case.

:31:30.:31:34.

What is vital, and some Tory rebels believe is implicit in the

:31:35.:31:38.

government amendment yesterday, the government doesn't agree, is whether

:31:39.:31:42.

or not there will be a vote. So the government is committed to putting

:31:43.:31:46.

something in front of the House but absolutely has not committed to

:31:47.:31:51.

giving MPs vote before Article 50. That is why the Supreme Court still

:31:52.:31:55.

matters because if it says yes there must be legislation, then there

:31:56.:31:58.

would have to be a vote and Dem MPs would have the chance to amend...

:31:59.:32:02.

And I think the important thing about yesterday was that the fight

:32:03.:32:06.

was deferred but it absolutely has not gone away. There is a sense

:32:07.:32:10.

around the place. People know this is a huge bust up looming over all

:32:11.:32:14.

of this. Today will probably not be the day. Lord Pannick, the QC for

:32:15.:32:21.

the plaintiff, said today that a motion is not an act of Parliament,

:32:22.:32:25.

it requires an act of Parliament, in his view to trigger that. That is

:32:26.:32:30.

his view. That is what they are arguing and the vital thing will be

:32:31.:32:34.

in January. Let's go over to the House and see what happens.

:32:35.:32:42.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister is in Bahrain. Mr Speaker,

:32:43.:32:49.

this morning I had meeting with ministerial colleagues and others

:32:50.:32:51.

and in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such

:32:52.:32:56.

meetings in this House later today. Yesterday's signing of a memorandum

:32:57.:33:03.

of understanding with Houston Space Court and the Rise Space Ince staut

:33:04.:33:07.

brings the reality of a Prestwick Space Court closer. With the huge

:33:08.:33:13.

boost that could give to the airspace injury, will the UK

:33:14.:33:16.

Government support the Scottish Government to get this off the

:33:17.:33:20.

ground? I can certainly assure the honourable lady that the Government

:33:21.:33:28.

is looking very keenly at the opportunities to Scotland, indeed

:33:29.:33:32.

the whole of the UK, arising from the future development of commercial

:33:33.:33:36.

space operations. The Ayrshire operation that she has described I'm

:33:37.:33:40.

sure will be examined by closely by most both my ministerial colleagues

:33:41.:33:42.

who are particularly concerned with this area of policy but we want to

:33:43.:33:48.

see the UK as a pioneer in seizing these new commercial opportunities.

:33:49.:33:52.

Perhaps thinking of rail passengers trying to get their their jobs, the

:33:53.:34:01.

secretary has spoke about abandoned workers and the Unite's Ken

:34:02.:34:05.

McCluskey is doing a Ukip move, resigning and trying to return. Will

:34:06.:34:10.

my honourable friend tell the RMT that 250 people will guaranteed

:34:11.:34:17.

employment should not put the lives and safety of southern rail

:34:18.:34:21.

passengers at risk? Hype' sure my honourable friend will be speaking

:34:22.:34:26.

on behalf of many thousands of rail passengers in his constituency, and

:34:27.:34:29.

many others -- I'm sure, in the south of England. It is deeply

:34:30.:34:33.

disappointing that some unions are threatening to strike over the

:34:34.:34:37.

Christmas period. The Government is now investing record amounts in

:34:38.:34:40.

improving our railways, up to ?40 billion over the next five years and

:34:41.:34:44.

we need everyone in industry, both management and unions to work

:34:45.:34:47.

together to secure the best deal for passengers. I have to say that the

:34:48.:34:54.

RMT's action shows co-ordinated contempt for the travelling public.

:34:55.:34:58.

And it seems designed to do nothing except bring about the maximum

:34:59.:35:04.

damage to people's lives. Mr Speaker there is heckling from the bedges

:35:05.:35:11.

opposite. -- benches opposite. This party, Mr Speaker s on the side of

:35:12.:35:16.

rail passengers. -- is on the side. I hope that the party opposite will

:35:17.:35:20.

join me in saying to the rail union leaders - sort it out, put the

:35:21.:35:24.

travelling public first. Stop the squabbling and tell your members to

:35:25.:35:29.

get back to work. THE SPEAKER: Emily Thornbury.

:35:30.:35:36.

CHEERS Nchtsds thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank

:35:37.:35:41.

you Mr Speaker. I'm sure the whole house will want to join with me in

:35:42.:35:47.

commemorating the 71st anniversary of the Pearl Harbour attack where

:35:48.:35:52.

thousands of American service personnel and civilians survived.

:35:53.:35:55.

Winston Churchill summoned Parliament to debate the British

:35:56.:36:00.

response. When he z he said this "It is indispensable to aer our system

:36:01.:36:03.

of Government that Parliament should play its full part in all important

:36:04.:36:09.

acts of the state." These quords are a vital reminder that even at a time

:36:10.:36:13.

of crisis, in fact especially at a time of national crisis, the role of

:36:14.:36:17.

Parliament is central A in that same spirit, we welcome the Government's

:36:18.:36:20.

decision to accept our motion today, that they will show Parliament their

:36:21.:36:24.

plan for Brexit, before Article 50 is triggered. So, can I ask the

:36:25.:36:29.

Leader of the House one central question about this plan? Does the

:36:30.:36:33.

Government want the UK to remain part of the customs union?

:36:34.:36:43.

Mr Speaker, can I first of all join the honourable lady opposite in

:36:44.:36:49.

marking the anniversary of Pearl Harbour, in remembering all of those

:36:50.:36:59.

who lost their lives at that time, but, also, marking with a sense of

:37:00.:37:05.

some celebration, even, the fact that Prime Minister Abe is joining

:37:06.:37:09.

President Obama in going to Pearl Harbour, the first Japanese Prime

:37:10.:37:15.

Minister so to do, and that sign of reconciliation, putting ancient

:37:16.:37:22.

conflicts behind is a welcome one. The point about Europe. The

:37:23.:37:26.

Government has made it clear we would seek to give additional

:37:27.:37:30.

clarity about our position at the earliest opportunity but it has been

:37:31.:37:33.

the case as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said many

:37:34.:37:36.

times, that one of our core objectives is going to be to secure

:37:37.:37:39.

the maximum freedom for British companies, both to have access to

:37:40.:37:42.

and operate within the single European market.

:37:43.:37:47.

I thank the Leader of the House for that answer but I would respectfully

:37:48.:37:50.

say to him that surely on this issue, the answer should be

:37:51.:37:54.

straightforward. We all know that it would be a disaster to British

:37:55.:37:58.

business if we do not remain part of the customs union.

:37:59.:38:03.

As the Leader of the House himself said in February, "Everything we

:38:04.:38:06.

take for granted, trade without customs checks or paper work at

:38:07.:38:11.

National Front years, would all be up in the air, it is massive what is

:38:12.:38:18.

at risk." On this side of the House we couldn't agree with him more. Can

:38:19.:38:22.

he put it beyond doubt, right now, today, tell us - does the Government

:38:23.:38:26.

want the UK to stay in the customs union?

:38:27.:38:34.

The honourable lady and I - she's right Mr Speaker, the honourable

:38:35.:38:37.

lady and I both argued passionately for the Remain cause during the

:38:38.:38:41.

referendum. What separates us now is that I am part of a Conservative

:38:42.:38:47.

Government, which is working together to respect the democratic

:38:48.:38:52.

verdict... CHEERS And to secure the best-possible

:38:53.:38:56.

outcome for the prosperity and security of the entire United

:38:57.:39:02.

Kingdom, from those into,s. Whereas the honourable lady, even just two

:39:03.:39:06.

months ago was telling us that she wanted to go back to the British

:39:07.:39:10.

people in some way. She needs to decide whether she accepts the

:39:11.:39:16.

democratic verdict or not. Of course we accept the democratic decision of

:39:17.:39:20.

the British public. Of course we do, but the difference

:39:21.:39:25.

between our side of the House and that side, is that we want to leave

:39:26.:39:30.

the European Union on behalf of 100%, on behalf of the whole of this

:39:31.:39:34.

nation. Now, we really need to have a straightforward answer to a

:39:35.:39:37.

straightforward question. Because leaving the customs union would mean

:39:38.:39:41.

having to check every container coming in at Dover. It would mean UK

:39:42.:39:48.

firms having to prove their origin tests, whenever they export to

:39:49.:39:52.

Europe T would mean chaos and it would mean grud lock for

:39:53.:39:56.

cross-border supply chains and as the Leader of the House -- gridlock.

:39:57.:40:01.

And as the Leader of the House said in lamb and beef exports, they go

:40:02.:40:05.

Taif-free, they go without any extra checks, you cannot guarantee any of

:40:06.:40:09.

that if we are outside. Now, again, on this side, we agree with what he

:40:10.:40:14.

said six months ago. The question is - does he still agree with himself?

:40:15.:40:28.

I thought it hadn't escaped the honourable lady's attention that

:40:29.:40:31.

there has been a significant referendum since February and that

:40:32.:40:36.

changes the context in which we are now having to operate. We face

:40:37.:40:41.

achallenging, yes, very wide-ranging negotiation and it would be harmful

:40:42.:40:44.

to the national interest for me or another ministers to engage in the

:40:45.:40:49.

sort of detailed expedition of our negotiating position that she is now

:40:50.:40:53.

pressing upon me. None of the other 27 governments is doing that, nor

:40:54.:40:58.

should we. Dear oh dear, we are not asking for

:40:59.:41:06.

details. We are asking about a central plank of the negotiation. If

:41:07.:41:10.

he can not give us an answer on the customs union as a whole... THE

:41:11.:41:14.

SPEAKER: Order, order. Both the questions and the answers will be

:41:15.:41:19.

heard. So, if the juvenile behaviour can stop, that would be really

:41:20.:41:25.

#4e7ful to the scrutiny process. Emily Thornbury -- really helpful.

:41:26.:41:29.

We don't get an answer on the whole of the customs union. Can I ask him

:41:30.:41:34.

about one specificp point. Since 1993 there have been no customs

:41:35.:41:38.

checks between the land border between Northern Ireland and the

:41:39.:41:41.

Irish Republic. In May when visiting Northern Ireland, the right

:41:42.:41:43.

honourable gentleman said - if the UK was in the part of the customs

:41:44.:41:49.

union, then there would have to be custom checks at the border and he

:41:50.:42:00.

said, for anyone to pretend otherwise would be "flying in the

:42:01.:42:03.

face of reality" can he confirm that is the position and if he is right,

:42:04.:42:07.

he must make it clear this is something that the Government is

:42:08.:42:10.

determined to avoid? The Prime Minister and the Northern Ireland

:42:11.:42:15.

Secretary have repeatedly made it clear that we, as indeed has the

:42:16.:42:20.

Irish Government, want to see the very long-standing common travel

:42:21.:42:24.

arguments and the free trade arrangementings across the Irish

:42:25.:42:27.

border continue. We are actively engaged in talking both to the

:42:28.:42:31.

Northern Ireland Executive and to the Government of the Republic of

:42:32.:42:35.

Ireland, about those matters. There is goodwill on all those sides to

:42:36.:42:39.

try and reach a solution that works for the people, north and south of

:42:40.:42:42.

the border. The Leader of the House has made the

:42:43.:42:46.

familiar argument that he can't give answers, that it is all to be

:42:47.:42:51.

resolved through a negotiation. Brexit means Brexit, Brexit means

:42:52.:42:54.

breakfast, but that is not what the Secretary of State for Brexit

:42:55.:42:57.

himself said when he was asked about the customs union in September,

:42:58.:43:02.

because he said "We have looked at this matter carefully and that is

:43:03.:43:07.

exactly the sort of decision that we will resolve before we trigger

:43:08.:43:11.

Article 50." So, if the Government is going to decide the position on

:43:12.:43:15.

this issue before March 31st, account Leader of the House confirm

:43:16.:43:19.

-- can the Leader of the House confirm that the British people and

:43:20.:43:22.

the British Parliament will be told some answers to my questions before

:43:23.:43:29.

they tell the rest of Europe? Mr Speaker if the answers sound

:43:30.:43:33.

familiar t maybe that we need constant repetition before the

:43:34.:43:39.

honourable lady will understand and appreciate it. The Government is, at

:43:40.:43:45.

the moment, engaged in a consultation with more than 50

:43:46.:43:51.

sectors of United Kingdom business, to ascertain precisely which aspects

:43:52.:43:54.

of European Union membership work well for them, which they see as

:43:55.:44:00.

harmful, where the opportunities beyond EU membership lie. We will

:44:01.:44:05.

come to a decision and we will go into negotiations on behalf of the

:44:06.:44:10.

full 100% of the United Kingdom population and all four nations of

:44:11.:44:13.

the United Kingdom. The fact is and he knows t we all

:44:14.:44:20.

know it. He can -- he knows it. He can consult as much as he likes the

:44:21.:44:24.

answer will come back, we should be part of a customs union. It is

:44:25.:44:27.

hugely disappointed that on a day when the Government is committing to

:44:28.:44:32.

its greater transparency on plans for Brexit we get the usual stone

:44:33.:44:36.

walling. We have a Government promising to tell us the plan, while

:44:37.:44:39.

refusing to give us the answers to the most basic of questions. We have

:44:40.:44:42.

a Government promising to give Parliament a spend when they are

:44:43.:44:46.

spending we don't know how much of tax payers' money across the road in

:44:47.:44:49.

the Supreme Court trying to stop Parliament having a say on this. In

:44:50.:44:52.

short, we have a Government that cannot tell us the plan, because

:44:53.:44:57.

they do not have a plan. They do not have a plan. In February, the Leader

:44:58.:45:05.

of the House said when he was hearing about the Leave campaign,

:45:06.:45:11.

was "confusing, contradictory nonsense" my final question is this

:45:12.:45:15.

- are we hearing anything different from this Government today? Mr

:45:16.:45:24.

Speaker, we will publish, before Article 50 is triggered, a statement

:45:25.:45:29.

about our negotiating strategy and objectives, as the Prime Minister

:45:30.:45:34.

has said yesterday. But the honourable lady seems, again, to be

:45:35.:45:39.

in a state of utter denial about the consequences that flow from the

:45:40.:45:45.

referendum decision. No other EU Government is seeking to reverse or

:45:46.:45:49.

question the legitimacy of that vote in the way that she and a number of

:45:50.:45:54.

her colleagues are still trying to do but I'm afraid that just

:45:55.:45:59.

indicates how distant the Labour Party now is from any aspiration to

:46:00.:46:05.

be back in Government again. We watched them in action - it's like,

:46:06.:46:18.

quarterlying like Mutiny on the Bounty reshotly the Carry On team.

:46:19.:46:22.

THE SPEAKER: Order, I want to hear the words flowing.

:46:23.:46:33.

There is no reason why the chair should be denied these words. They

:46:34.:46:41.

are rudderless, drifting on Europe as on so many other aspects of

:46:42.:46:46.

policy. No wonder that decent working people who for generations

:46:47.:46:51.

have looked to Labour as their champions have given up in despair

:46:52.:46:53.

and looked to this party as the authentic voice of working families.

:46:54.:47:05.

Mr Speaker, in 1943, a 16-year-old girl was forcibly taken to

:47:06.:47:10.

Auschwitz, where she witnessed the horrors of the death camps. On

:47:11.:47:14.

liberation she came to this country with her mother, where she raised a

:47:15.:47:18.

family and became a nurse. She dedicated her life to making sure

:47:19.:47:24.

that the people of this country and beyond know the horrors of the

:47:25.:47:29.

Holocaust. Last week, that lady turned 90. And Kitty Hart-Moxon is

:47:30.:47:42.

with us today at Prime Minister's Questions.

:47:43.:47:42.

APPLAUSE Will my right honourable friend join

:47:43.:48:03.

with me, and I think the whole house in wishing her a very happy belated

:48:04.:48:08.

birthday and thanking her for her lifetime of dedication to raising

:48:09.:48:13.

this important issue and also pay tribute to the Holocaust educational

:48:14.:48:18.

trust, who do everything possible so that we all remember and witness the

:48:19.:48:23.

horrors of the worst part of the 20th century? First of all, Mr

:48:24.:48:31.

Speaker, I am grateful to my right honourable friend for raising this

:48:32.:48:34.

important issue and I would like to join him in marking the achievements

:48:35.:48:40.

of Kitty Hart-Moxon and of the Holocaust Educational Trust. I can

:48:41.:48:44.

never forget the impact of discovering as a schoolboy that two

:48:45.:48:49.

of the boys in my class had fathers who had survived Auschwitz. It's

:48:50.:48:53.

only a couple of generations ago that Europe was plunged into this

:48:54.:48:57.

unspeakable horror and it is important that not just the

:48:58.:49:08.

educational trust but all of us play our part to ensure that the memory

:49:09.:49:11.

of the Holocaust lives on and that the wider lessons of this dark

:49:12.:49:13.

period in our history are learned and I think I would be grateful to

:49:14.:49:16.

all members right across the House and all political parties for their

:49:17.:49:21.

support in working together to ensure this vital work continues. Mr

:49:22.:49:30.

Angus Robertson. Some of the most deprived communities in the country

:49:31.:49:33.

are in Glasgow and today we learn apparently that the government plans

:49:34.:49:38.

to close job centres in those very communities, in Parkhead,

:49:39.:49:49.

Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Anniesland and Maryhill. Is it true that the

:49:50.:49:51.

government are planning to close these offices and add misery to the

:49:52.:49:56.

lives of thousands of people in Glasgow who currently use these

:49:57.:50:02.

centres? Clearly the Department for Work and Pensions like every

:50:03.:50:05.

government department does like from time to time at the number of

:50:06.:50:10.

offices it has but the right honourable gentleman makes a

:50:11.:50:14.

perfectly reasonable point on behalf of people in Glasgow. I will ask my

:50:15.:50:17.

right honourable friend the Work and Pensions Secretary to contact him

:50:18.:50:25.

with the details he is seeking. I'm sorry, Mr Speaker, that is not good

:50:26.:50:26.

enough. Absolutely! Being tackled when dealing with

:50:27.:50:42.

communities that are deprived does not behove Tory members well in

:50:43.:50:47.

Scotland. -- being tackled. The leader of the house is correct to

:50:48.:50:55.

say that the Department of work and pension has plans to cut the state

:50:56.:51:07.

by 20%. The DWP is planning to cut Glasgow by 50%. Why is this

:51:08.:51:12.

government planning to disproportionately cut vital job

:51:13.:51:16.

centres in some of the most deprived communities in our country, why? The

:51:17.:51:23.

key element in any such decision that a government department has to

:51:24.:51:29.

make is not the raw number of offices that there should be but

:51:30.:51:34.

about how accessible the offices and the services that they provide

:51:35.:51:36.

continued to be to the people who need to use them. And I am

:51:37.:51:43.

absolutely confident that it is that criterion that is at the heart of my

:51:44.:51:48.

right honourable friend's thinking. Planning for the future of offices

:51:49.:51:51.

in Scotland and everywhere else in the UK. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

:51:52.:51:58.

Passengers of the chaser of mine face chaos and misery in the autumn

:51:59.:52:01.

and this year it's been worse than ever. Delayed and overcrowded trains

:52:02.:52:08.

leave passengers stranded at stations and being late for work and

:52:09.:52:12.

school. Well my right honourable friend outline what measures the

:52:13.:52:15.

government is taking too penalised poor performing train operators?

:52:16.:52:22.

First of all can I express my sympathy to my right honourable

:52:23.:52:27.

friend -- tonight honourable friend and all passengers who have come

:52:28.:52:30.

across these problems on the Chase Line. It is clearly not acceptable

:52:31.:52:35.

and it is important that the operator works hard to secure rapid

:52:36.:52:38.

and sustained improvement, the government has introduced new rules

:52:39.:52:42.

to make sure that rail passengers will soon be able to claim

:52:43.:52:46.

compensation if their train is more than 15 minutes late but as the

:52:47.:52:50.

Transport Secretary said yesterday more needs to be done and we want to

:52:51.:52:56.

see closer work across the industry so that this problem can be resolved

:52:57.:53:03.

more swiftly than in the past. Thank you, Mr Speaker, does the leader of

:53:04.:53:07.

the house agree with the north-east member for Somerset that Brexit

:53:08.:53:11.

offers an opportunity to remove pesky emissions standards? In the

:53:12.:53:15.

red, white and blue Brexit will he still commit to tackle this will

:53:16.:53:21.

tackling global warming just become a of hot air? The government remains

:53:22.:53:29.

utterly committed to both national and global ambitions and targets

:53:30.:53:36.

when it comes to climate change. Indeed my right honourable friend,

:53:37.:53:41.

the current Home Secretary, in her previous job, played a key role in

:53:42.:53:45.

brokering the Paris agreement last year, the first ever global

:53:46.:53:51.

agreement on climate change. The honourable lady, I hope, would

:53:52.:53:55.

welcome the fact that we will now be ahead of our targets and ambitions

:53:56.:53:59.

in delivering on the proportion of electricity provided by renewables

:54:00.:54:04.

in this country and in continuing to work to get our carbon emissions

:54:05.:54:09.

down. Thank you, Mr Speaker. There has been much talk recently about

:54:10.:54:14.

paying for access to a tariff- free single market. I think that is a

:54:15.:54:22.

very good idea. Given that the United Kingdom is the fifth biggest

:54:23.:54:28.

economy in the world, and we have a ?70 billion trade deficit with the

:54:29.:54:35.

EU, would be excellent acting Prime Minister... Tell the House how much

:54:36.:54:45.

the European Union should pay for tariff - free access to the UK

:54:46.:54:53.

single market? I suppose I should say, thank you to my honourable

:54:54.:54:59.

friend for the upgrade! Although I hope that is limiting the

:55:00.:55:07.

compliment. He makes a good point in that a settlement at the end of our

:55:08.:55:11.

negotiation which maintains maximum access to and freedom to operate

:55:12.:55:17.

within the European market for UK companies elsewhere in Europe and

:55:18.:55:21.

for European companies here is an our mutual interest about that will

:55:22.:55:27.

inspire negotiators on both side. Mr Speaker, how does closing miracle

:55:28.:55:31.

job centre, one of the most deprived parts of the country, help my

:55:32.:55:36.

constituents find a job? Does he accept that travelling to other

:55:37.:55:39.

centres will mean higher costs for those on low incomes and increasing

:55:40.:55:44.

sanctions, why does this government continued to target the poorest and

:55:45.:55:49.

most vulnerable? If the government has been targeting the poorest it is

:55:50.:55:53.

in getting them back to work in record numbers. And it has been in

:55:54.:56:02.

providing a boost to the pay of people on low pay through the

:56:03.:56:05.

introduction and increase in the national living wage. I wish that

:56:06.:56:10.

the honourable gentleman was prepared to celebrate this

:56:11.:56:14.

achievements. Thank you Mr Speaker, as we are about to commence the most

:56:15.:56:18.

important negotiation for decades does my right honourable friend

:56:19.:56:22.

agree that the government being forced to disclose its negotiation

:56:23.:56:25.

strategy at this stage is rather like showing your hand at cards to

:56:26.:56:31.

your opponent before a game of poker, and can I urge him to take no

:56:32.:56:36.

advice from the party opposite? They only have one card to play on this

:56:37.:56:44.

and it is always the Joker! Mr Speaker, we have said we will come

:56:45.:56:48.

forward with more details about our strategic aims going into the

:56:49.:56:50.

negotiation but it would harm the national interest if we were to go

:56:51.:56:53.

into the kind of detailed explanation of our negotiating

:56:54.:56:58.

position that the opposition urges upon us. That is not how any of the

:56:59.:57:02.

other 27 governments acting of thinking and we should learn from

:57:03.:57:09.

bad example. Does the leader of the house agree that tonight's vote on

:57:10.:57:14.

the Prime Minister's Amendment, which we fully support, is a vote of

:57:15.:57:18.

the highest significance and great importance because for the first

:57:19.:57:22.

time honourable and right Honourable members of this House will have the

:57:23.:57:25.

opportunity to vote on whether they respect the will of the people of

:57:26.:57:29.

the United Kingdom, and whether they will get on with implementing it,

:57:30.:57:34.

people will be able to read in Hansard tomorrow who stands by

:57:35.:57:37.

respecting the will of the people of the UK? And will he also agree...

:57:38.:57:45.

And I am sure that he will... The more red white and blue he makes it

:57:46.:57:52.

the better the us and the Unionist benches! The right honourable

:57:53.:57:58.

gentleman as so often makes a powerful and important point. The

:57:59.:58:04.

vote tonight will be the first opportunity for members of this

:58:05.:58:09.

house to decide whether or not they support the government's timetable

:58:10.:58:13.

of triggering Article 50 by the end of March 20 17. And any Right

:58:14.:58:20.

Honourable member who votes against that motion will, in my view, be

:58:21.:58:25.

seeking to thwart the outcome of the referendum in most undemocratic

:58:26.:58:31.

fashion. Mr Speaker, this country's nuclear deterrent is our ultimate

:58:32.:58:35.

defence and must be maintained at all costs, yet hundreds of my

:58:36.:58:39.

constituents who could at the atomic weapons Establishment are currently

:58:40.:58:44.

on strike or work to rule over pensions. These are people who more

:58:45.:58:47.

often than not have devoted their working lives to tending our nuclear

:58:48.:58:53.

defence and to whom promises were made during privatisation. Can I ask

:58:54.:58:57.

that the leader of the house commits to sit down with the promised and

:58:58.:59:00.

review the situation to ensure that those promises are being kept? I

:59:01.:59:07.

will certainly ensure that the Prime Minister is informed about this

:59:08.:59:11.

matter and my honourable friend is right to raise these concerns on

:59:12.:59:15.

behalf of his constituents. My understanding is that the proposed

:59:16.:59:19.

changes to the atomic weapons Establishment pensions scheme are a

:59:20.:59:22.

matter for the company as the employer but I can assure my right

:59:23.:59:26.

honourable friend that the Defence Secretary has been in close contact

:59:27.:59:32.

with AWE throughout the process and has also met the trade unions and is

:59:33.:59:35.

carefully considering recent developments to see what can be

:59:36.:59:41.

done. Thank you, Mr Speaker, I know the House will join me in sending

:59:42.:59:45.

their sympathies to the family of David Brown who aged 18 took his own

:59:46.:59:50.

life. The inquest into his death has heard that he did so on the day he

:59:51.:59:53.

was due to sign on at the job centre after saying that he felt belittled

:59:54.:59:58.

by staff despite actively looking for work and seeking an

:59:59.:00:01.

apprenticeship. Shortly before taking his own life he told his mum,

:00:02.:00:05.

the way that the job centre treat people, it's no surprise that people

:00:06.:00:10.

commit suicide. Will the leader of the house and take a review into

:00:11.:00:13.

this case and also undertake to take stock of six years of brutal welfare

:00:14.:00:18.

reform and look at the way that the DWP treats it most vulnerable... Mr

:00:19.:00:27.

Speaker, can I first also express and reserved sympathy for the family

:00:28.:00:33.

of David Brown. No parent, no family, should have to go through

:00:34.:00:41.

that kind of shocking experience. Clearly human beings in any

:00:42.:00:47.

organisation sometimes take decisions that get things wrong and

:00:48.:00:54.

I will ask the work and pensions department to look at the case she

:00:55.:00:58.

has described. But I do have to say that I think the principle remains

:00:59.:01:01.

right that while staff should always behave with courtesy towards people

:01:02.:01:05.

seeking to claim benefits, it is also right that we should expect

:01:06.:01:11.

people who are receiving benefits to be subject to the kind of

:01:12.:01:16.

disciplines that apply to people in work, even if they are on low pay,

:01:17.:01:20.

there is a principle of fairness here that lies behind the approach

:01:21.:01:25.

that DWP takes. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I applaud the Prime

:01:26.:01:28.

Minister 's vision for a government for all. As chair of the all-party

:01:29.:01:34.

committee on community engagement, the FTSE 150 has less than 4% of

:01:35.:01:39.

individuals from an ethnic minority on its board. Will the government

:01:40.:01:42.

support the vision to help to increase that to 10% by 2021? It is

:01:43.:01:49.

very clear that boardrooms need to do more to reflect the reality of

:01:50.:01:53.

modern Britain and the government supports the principle of increasing

:01:54.:02:03.

the diversity of boards. That is why we should support the initiative

:02:04.:02:06.

chaired by Sir John Parker and we encourage businesses to act on his

:02:07.:02:11.

recommendations. Thank you, Mr Speaker. A recent FOI showed that

:02:12.:02:19.

Pinderfields Hospital placed ambulances and divert to do is

:02:20.:02:24.

prehospital 61 times in the past 12 months. One hospital scheduled for

:02:25.:02:30.

downgrade next year. In light of evidence showing that this hospital

:02:31.:02:35.

currently can't cope will the leader of the house pledge urgent support

:02:36.:02:38.

from the government to keep Dewsbury A E open? The NHS is certainly

:02:39.:02:45.

busier than it ever has been in its history, which is why it should be a

:02:46.:02:52.

matter of thanks and tribute to hard-working NHS staff that 90% of

:02:53.:02:58.

people going to A E are still being seen within the four our

:02:59.:03:04.

target. The point about the Confederation of local services in

:03:05.:03:07.

any part of the country is that these need to be driven by local

:03:08.:03:17.

clinicians working together with the CCGs who are the people who actually

:03:18.:03:21.

manage what is needed in each locality. The local authority to its

:03:22.:03:24.

health committee has the right to call in proposed changes to services

:03:25.:03:29.

and refer them to the secretary of State if they are uncomfortable with

:03:30.:03:34.

them. Messi thank you, Mr Speaker. I know my right honourable friend will

:03:35.:03:40.

share with me the importance of the creative sector and that in

:03:41.:03:45.

conjunction with the Welsh language makes S4 see in my constituency

:03:46.:03:48.

hugely important to Welsh and British culture and economy. Will he

:03:49.:03:56.

confirm this government 's commitment to protect S4C why we

:03:57.:04:00.

review its future? We fully committed to the future of Welsh

:04:01.:04:05.

language broadcasting and to S4C. I'm pleased to see the licence fee

:04:06.:04:10.

settlement we have agreed has given financial certainty protecting its

:04:11.:04:13.

funding at more than ?74 million a year for the next five years and we

:04:14.:04:18.

are committed to ensuring that the channel continues to make

:04:19.:04:21.

first-class programmes and serve Welsh audiences in the constituency

:04:22.:04:26.

of my honourable friend and right across the UK. Is the leader of the

:04:27.:04:30.

House aware of reports of children being massacred and thrown into

:04:31.:04:35.

fires, women being raped and houses razed to the ground and what

:04:36.:04:39.

representations have this government made to the Burmese authorities or

:04:40.:04:44.

the militaries in this regard? Yes, those reports are extremely

:04:45.:04:50.

concerning as the honourable lady knows, there is a long history of

:04:51.:04:55.

discrimination against these people in Burma, both British ministers and

:04:56.:05:02.

the British Embassy and officials in London make our concerned very clear

:05:03.:05:11.

to the Burmese authorities. Following the revelations in the

:05:12.:05:14.

panorama programme Clinton has in my constituency is closed and three

:05:15.:05:17.

other care homes run by the same group have been rated inadequate and

:05:18.:05:22.

is CQC and two others are currently under inspection. Concerns have been

:05:23.:05:26.

raised about these homes figures and cannot be acceptable that it took

:05:27.:05:30.

the BBC to provoke the action desperately needed. Does the leader

:05:31.:05:33.

of the has agreed that it is now time to urgently review the role of

:05:34.:05:39.

the CQC to ensure that in future concerns raised by residents, family

:05:40.:05:42.

and staff are properly and promptly addressed? I think that old and

:05:43.:05:49.

vulnerable people deserve the highest quality care possible, no

:05:50.:05:52.

excuse for services that fall short of expectations in the way that my

:05:53.:05:57.

honourable friend has described. This CQC does have extensive powers

:05:58.:06:02.

in law to ensure that no one in the chain of responsibility is immune

:06:03.:06:06.

against legal accountability. And I would expect this CQC to exercise

:06:07.:06:11.

those powers in full, in this case but he's made some criticisms of the

:06:12.:06:16.

CQC and the government has been looking into ways to improve its

:06:17.:06:20.

processes and increase its efficiency and my right honourable

:06:21.:06:23.

friend the Minister for community health and get discussed this issue

:06:24.:06:30.

with the CQC today. 6% of methane from fracking is leaked from

:06:31.:06:36.

fugitive emissions. Given that methane is 86 times worse than

:06:37.:06:40.

carbon dioxide for global warming over 20 years will he support the

:06:41.:06:45.

Council for Europe's call for banning fracking or at least a

:06:46.:06:54.

maximum of 0.1% fugitive emissions at the well head? No, Mr Speaker,

:06:55.:07:00.

the government took its decision to give the go-ahead to fracking after

:07:01.:07:05.

extensive consideration of both the economic and environmental risks and

:07:06.:07:09.

opportunities involved. We are confident that it can be carried out

:07:10.:07:14.

in a way that is saved, that does not harm the environment but which

:07:15.:07:19.

also provides job opportunities for this country and makes this country

:07:20.:07:25.

less dependent on imported energy. Mr Speaker, I expect my right

:07:26.:07:30.

honourable friend will be astonished if not aghast to learn that a

:07:31.:07:37.

succession of journalists from the BBC have contacted me seeking to

:07:38.:07:41.

manufacture stories of backbench rebellion! On the issue of the EU. I

:07:42.:07:58.

want to hear about these activities! Will he agree with me that on this

:07:59.:08:01.

controversial issues the BBC should stick to its charter obligation for

:08:02.:08:07.

accuracy and impartiality instead of seeking to create problems with the

:08:08.:08:15.

government! Mr Speaker, I am sure that my honourable friend is shocked

:08:16.:08:22.

at the thought that anybody could look to him as a source of

:08:23.:08:28.

information about rebellion against the government! I hope that he will

:08:29.:08:31.

be able to find some comfort in the fact that the new Royal Charter

:08:32.:08:38.

agreement requires the BBC to deliver impartial news, the first

:08:39.:08:41.

time impartiality has been enshrined in the BBC's mission. Having

:08:42.:08:49.

received a response from the Prime Minister to my request for a

:08:50.:08:52.

children's funeral fund I was disturbed to be told that the fund

:08:53.:09:01.

can provide, and simple respectable funeral, this response totally lacks

:09:02.:09:07.

any understanding of my request. As the leader of the House any

:09:08.:09:09.

authority to facilitate a meeting between myself and other bereaved

:09:10.:09:13.

mothers so we can explain to the Prime Minister exactly what we are

:09:14.:09:17.

asking for? This request is important to us as parents. Too many

:09:18.:09:23.

in this house and from my postbag very many people and organisations

:09:24.:09:31.

throughout this country. Burying a child must be an incredibly painful

:09:32.:09:38.

experience for any family, and I think all of us would want to pay

:09:39.:09:46.

our respects to and have enormous sympathy with the honourable member

:09:47.:09:51.

for Swansea Is. And she speaks on behalf of, she says, thousands of

:09:52.:09:55.

parents who go through that anguish. As the Prime Minister said, there

:09:56.:09:59.

are mechanisms in place for financial support from central

:10:00.:10:03.

government to be available and local authorities are of course free and

:10:04.:10:07.

many of them to waive funeral fees for child burials. -- many of them

:10:08.:10:14.

do. I will speak to my ministerial colleagues about the request from

:10:15.:10:18.

the honourable lady for meeting and I am sure she will receive a

:10:19.:10:25.

response. Good train links are vital for constituents to get to work so

:10:26.:10:30.

it's incredible frustrating that cross-country operates 63 services a

:10:31.:10:33.

day between Birmingham and Bristol yet only three stop at Gloucester.

:10:34.:10:37.

Would my right honourable friend ensure that ministers, in extending

:10:38.:10:41.

the franchise of the train operators, do not allow cross

:10:42.:10:44.

country to go on treating Gloucester like a letter to be avoided at all

:10:45.:10:49.

cost and oblige them to deliver a service that every city deserves.

:10:50.:11:01.

Any of us who have been to Gloucester know that it's a place

:11:02.:11:05.

that you want to be able to visit frequently and easily. The

:11:06.:11:07.

government is investing record amounts in improving railways and as

:11:08.:11:12.

regards his case, transport ministers are working with

:11:13.:11:15.

cross-country and great Western to see how the service can be improved.

:11:16.:11:26.

Prime Minister's Questions comes to be a end without the Prime Minister

:11:27.:11:35.

or the Leader of the Opposition. David Lidington and Emily Thornbury,

:11:36.:11:39.

probably showing her legal background and franing, concentrated

:11:40.:11:42.

on one specific question, to which she didn't get an answer, even

:11:43.:11:47.

though she pushed hard at it and held Mr Lidington's feet to the

:11:48.:11:50.

fire. She wanted to know whether or not we would remain inside the

:11:51.:11:54.

customs union, if and when we leave the European Union. There was no

:11:55.:11:58.

disstipt or clear answer came to that. Miss Thornbury generally

:11:59.:12:03.

thought to have done a pretty good job in that, in bearing down on one

:12:04.:12:07.

particular area, which the Government finds hard to answer. I

:12:08.:12:20.

think she'll, on both sides of the aisle get good reviews. As Prime

:12:21.:12:24.

Minister's Questions come to an end, I understand that Donald J Trump is

:12:25.:12:31.

about to go live on the Today programme on NBC in the United

:12:32.:12:40.

States, where sad for Nigel Farage, that Mr Trump has been named the

:12:41.:12:45.

Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Well, back to the Commons. Like you,

:12:46.:12:56.

Ian whitly from Altrincham said that it was entertaining, Emily Thornbury

:12:57.:13:00.

gave Jeremy Corbyn a lesson. And another says "What a diabolical

:13:01.:13:04.

mess, it is difficult to see any gross regarding questions about the

:13:05.:13:08.

EU." And Martin says "It is clear from Thornbury's questions about the

:13:09.:13:12.

custom union that Labour want a soft Brexit and effectively remaining in

:13:13.:13:16.

the EU, which goes against the 52% that voted to leave." And this from

:13:17.:13:21.

Terence "It is idiotic pretending there can be anything other than a

:13:22.:13:26.

hard border between the two Irelands, neither the UKpm or the

:13:27.:13:33.

Irish premier will decide, the EU will decide." I said that Emily

:13:34.:13:38.

Thornbury focussed on one issue and going at it again and again but we

:13:39.:13:42.

should say David Lidington performed well, too. I think they both did

:13:43.:13:49.

rather W I think Emily Thornbury she probably used legal background,

:13:50.:13:53.

pressing him on one point she was effective, so was David Lidington.

:13:54.:13:57.

Not somebody well-known by the audience but somebody who is hugely

:13:58.:14:00.

experienced and broadly respected. I think we saw Y he appears to be

:14:01.:14:05.

across all of the issues. He managed to do what is difficult for

:14:06.:14:09.

Mintosters to do at the moment. Dance around the fact they are not

:14:10.:14:12.

giving any answers on the European Union, if they can possibly get away

:14:13.:14:17.

with T the one thing that Emily Thornbury didn't mention, though, is

:14:18.:14:20.

last week the Chancellor, the Foreign Secretary and indeed the

:14:21.:14:23.

Brexit secretary, David Davis, did actually give us some answers on

:14:24.:14:27.

where we might possibly be and some elements of the European

:14:28.:14:31.

negotiations. And there was an outbreak of applause during Prime

:14:32.:14:37.

Minister's Questions, for someone in the Public Gallery, which breaks two

:14:38.:14:39.

conventions of the House of Commons, one that there shouldn't be applause

:14:40.:14:43.

and secondly, that there should be no reference to anybody in the

:14:44.:14:52.

Public Gallery. However, since this involved a 90-year-old Holocaust

:14:53.:14:58.

survivor, a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp, a

:14:59.:15:02.

90-year-old named Kitty, I don't think anyone will complain about the

:15:03.:15:07.

conventions being breached. Many will think that that's the poupt of

:15:08.:15:12.

breaching conventions. Jenny Chapman would would it, in Emily's words be

:15:13.:15:17.

a disaster if we were to leave the dues Toms union? It would affect

:15:18.:15:22.

jobs and trade and our businesses so catastrophically T enables us to

:15:23.:15:26.

trade freely, the big issue that doesn't get debated very much, we

:15:27.:15:30.

talk about tariffs but it is the certificates of origin, so if you

:15:31.:15:34.

are trying to export a train made in County Durham to the EU, you would

:15:35.:15:39.

then have to prove where every single component of that train had

:15:40.:15:43.

come from T would be a huge burden. Why would it be catastrophic, your

:15:44.:15:47.

words? Because, the administration of it. They would have to be able to

:15:48.:15:51.

demonstrate where all the bits have come from T would be too much of a

:15:52.:15:55.

burden and too -- it would be too much of a burden and too easy for a

:15:56.:15:59.

big manufacture, like hit Aceh to take their factory somewhere else.

:16:00.:16:06.

So, if that's true -- Hitachi. If that's twru, why would

:16:07.:16:10.

Switzerland and nor way, who are not in the customs union, trade

:16:11.:16:14.

massively with the EU? They are not manufacturers in the way we are?

:16:15.:16:17.

Switzerland is. They are not assemblers in the way we are.

:16:18.:16:20.

Switzerland and Norway are saying to us - you don't want that as a deal,

:16:21.:16:24.

it wouldn't work for you, it works for them. Where have they said that?

:16:25.:16:29.

Norway has said to us. Where? I can't remember where, but they were

:16:30.:16:32.

clear, saying it is a good deal for them but actually not the right deal

:16:33.:16:38.

for us in the UK. But 70%. We need it be trade without these barriers.

:16:39.:16:44.

Norway is not in the customs union and 7 o 0% of Norway's strayed is

:16:45.:16:48.

with the European Union. -- 70%. Verses only 44% of our trade with

:16:49.:16:52.

the European Union. So I don't understand. It is what kind of

:16:53.:16:56.

trade. You were just making something in the north of England

:16:57.:17:00.

and you made it and sourced all the components for it locally that would

:17:01.:17:03.

be one thing. We don't do that. The trains' example I was use, we have a

:17:04.:17:07.

shell of a train from Japan, the engines are made in Germany, there

:17:08.:17:10.

are pieces of that structure that come from all over the world. And

:17:11.:17:16.

that would all need to be evidenced. S. That he true for Swiss watches.

:17:17.:17:24.

It is a situation that is already... It is very different. It is made of

:17:25.:17:28.

thousands of parts all of which sourced from all over the world. It

:17:29.:17:31.

is very difficult. I can understand it would cause problems. I mean the

:17:32.:17:35.

rules of origins issue causes problems. I'm not arguing that, but

:17:36.:17:40.

you are using the words disaster and catastrophic and people will look,

:17:41.:17:44.

for example, Switzerland is a huge exporter of pharmaceutical drugs

:17:45.:17:48.

into the EU. They are made up of all sorts of components from all over

:17:49.:17:54.

the world and yet they, their percentage of the GDP export at

:17:55.:17:59.

least aes much as we do to the EU. Norway exports almost one-third

:18:00.:18:02.

mother than we do. I don't understand -- more than we do. I

:18:03.:18:07.

don't understand where the word disaster and catastrophic will come

:18:08.:18:12.

from? We're clear, we think a hard Brexit will be a disaster for the

:18:13.:18:17.

UK. The customs union is part of what would differentiate a hard exit

:18:18.:18:22.

from a soft Brexit. There has been a study done by Open Europe, a

:18:23.:18:26.

pro-Remain organisation, and it worked out if there was a negative

:18:27.:18:32.

impact it would be around 0.8% of GDP until the rules of origin issues

:18:33.:18:39.

were fully handled so 0.8% of GDP is something you would not want to

:18:40.:18:42.

lose. I would suggest it doesn't fall into the category of disaster

:18:43.:18:46.

or catastrophic. I'm talking to businesses in the regions, this is

:18:47.:18:49.

what they are telling us and we take that very, very seriously. If you -

:18:50.:18:54.

the Government today can't answer the question of whether or not we

:18:55.:18:59.

would remain in the customs union. But it does follow, as night follow

:19:00.:19:05.

day, that if we are in the customs union, we can't do our own free

:19:06.:19:08.

trade deals. Do you accept that? No I don't accept that. Really? This is

:19:09.:19:13.

one of the - the points around the whole situation we have got. We are

:19:14.:19:17.

in a unique position, to any other country that has worked out a deal

:19:18.:19:20.

with Europe in the past. We are the first country to lee. Therefore, we

:19:21.:19:24.

have an opportunity to do something not trying to focus too much on

:19:25.:19:28.

trying to copy what somebody else has done but do something that is

:19:29.:19:32.

bespoke for our country. Can you give me an example Let me just

:19:33.:19:37.

finish... No I want to ask you this - can you give me an example of a

:19:38.:19:41.

country that's in the customs union and does it its own comprehensive

:19:42.:19:44.

free trade deals? No, I can't but there is no other country I can give

:19:45.:19:48.

you an example of that has been a member of the European Union and

:19:49.:19:53.

done a deal as it is exiting as a known partner, a knownentity that we

:19:54.:19:57.

are. As a constituency MP, particularly in the energy industry,

:19:58.:20:01.

I'm talking to businesses all the time, and I spoke to people who have

:20:02.:20:06.

voted Remain and campaign. I have spoken to businesses large and small

:20:07.:20:09.

that they are excited by the potential opportunities to do things

:20:10.:20:12.

differently. Explain to me, if we do things differently how it would

:20:13.:20:15.

work? The main purpose of the customs union is to set up external

:20:16.:20:21.

tariffs for those who are members of it. So if you are in the customs

:20:22.:20:29.

union, we all pay the same tariffs on goods coming in. If we are inside

:20:30.:20:33.

the customs union and therefore, subject to these tariffs and do a

:20:34.:20:37.

free trade deal with Canada, how would it not be be subject to these

:20:38.:20:49.

tariffs? You can't have both? That's what the negotiations are That's

:20:50.:20:53.

something the be Government will be going with, with our European

:20:54.:20:58.

partners. How would you say we would be subject to a 10% tariff as

:20:59.:21:03.

members fted customs union and do a free trade deal with Canada and say

:21:04.:21:08.

- you won't be subject of 10% tariffs how would that work? That's

:21:09.:21:13.

is subject to pre-agreement with our European partners that allows this

:21:14.:21:16.

country to do the deals. That's what the negotiations are about. Can you

:21:17.:21:22.

do a free trade deal with Canada or any other country and be inside the

:21:23.:21:26.

customs union which has external tariffs against Canada? This is the

:21:27.:21:29.

whole point of negotiations with your European partners about finding

:21:30.:21:33.

the right deal. You have no idea how to resolve that Both inside the EU

:21:34.:21:37.

and outside the EU. It is what our businesses want and it is why as

:21:38.:21:41.

David Lidington said, we are talking about businesses. The truth is you

:21:42.:21:44.

have no idea. The truth is we are at the start of the negotiations. And

:21:45.:21:49.

you have no idea. . . We can't predict on where we will end up

:21:50.:21:54.

getting the best deal for the country. They must have magicians.

:21:55.:22:00.

Before we let you go, a letter in the Evening Standard by Chris

:22:01.:22:03.

Grayling, the Transport Secretary at the time. From 2013, written to

:22:04.:22:08.

Boris Johnson, the then Conservative mayor for London responding to his

:22:09.:22:12.

request for Transport for London to take on responsibility for a number

:22:13.:22:15.

of rail services in the London area to which he reply quoeps I wouldn't

:22:16.:22:19.

be in favour of changing the current arrangement not because I have fears

:22:20.:22:24.

under the immediate future but because I would like to keep

:22:25.:22:28.

suburban rail services out of the clutches of any future Labour

:22:29.:22:31.

mayor." And there has been a foe sieve Russ response from a Tory

:22:32.:22:35.

colleague This is awkward and embarrassing and gives rise to

:22:36.:22:38.

immediate allegations that he is not putting the interests of passengers,

:22:39.:22:42.

the rail industry or London and the south-east first, instead he is

:22:43.:22:45.

putting partisan, narrow interests of the Conservative Party, rather

:22:46.:22:48.

than his constituents fist. That's what the letter suggests. We are yet

:22:49.:22:56.

hear from him but now he is in the job of Transport Secretary,

:22:57.:22:59.

immediately it would be within the grounds of his responsibility and

:23:00.:23:02.

there will be a fierce row now between him and the Mayor of London,

:23:03.:23:05.

Sadiq Khan, this is tricky for him to answer. It is, and there are now

:23:06.:23:11.

calls from Bob Neil, the Tory MP who has raised this issue and said how

:23:12.:23:15.

you have explained it, in terms of putting his own partisan views

:23:16.:23:17.

before the interests of his constituents. Let's hear what he had

:23:18.:23:25.

to say. (No sound.

:23:26.:23:34.

)... Of rail Fran can chiess in London to Labour mayor. In other

:23:35.:23:38.

words he was doing it for a party political reason, despite the fact

:23:39.:23:42.

that at the last mayoral election, I and other Conservatives campaigned

:23:43.:23:45.

in favour of rail devolution. He was not honest with us then, and it's

:23:46.:23:49.

quite clear that when he calm to the House of Commons and said he was

:23:50.:23:53.

doing so for financial reasons, that was not the truth. I think a

:23:54.:23:56.

minister who has done that is not fit to hold office. Well, that is a

:23:57.:24:00.

dramatic indictment there of Chris Grayling. Not honest, he should go.

:24:01.:24:06.

You know complete conflict here It is quite some escalation from a good

:24:07.:24:10.

scoop frat Evening Standard finding this letter by lunch time, a

:24:11.:24:14.

Conservative MP, someone widely respected in this particular area,

:24:15.:24:16.

actually saying he should go. This is not going to be a good day for

:24:17.:24:20.

Chris Grayling. I think at the moment it seems unlikely he would

:24:21.:24:22.

resign over something lick this, but, you know... Who knows. Things

:24:23.:24:28.

moves fast these days. I'm going to ask you go to but very politely. OK.

:24:29.:24:30.

Thank you. Now, the Liberal Democrats have been

:24:31.:24:35.

fined by the Electoral Commission after an investigation

:24:36.:24:37.

into the party's spending return The ?20,000 penalty is the largest

:24:38.:24:39.

that can be imposed for a single offence and the Commission is now

:24:40.:24:43.

repeating its call for an increase to the maximum fine,

:24:44.:24:46.

so it's more proportionate to the levels of spending

:24:47.:24:48.

and donations being handled In the case of the ?20,000 fine,

:24:49.:24:50.

the Commission concluded that the Lib Dems' 2015 election

:24:51.:24:54.

spending return was not complete The investigation found that

:24:55.:25:07.

307 payments totalling ?184,676 were missing

:25:08.:25:09.

from the Liberal Democrats' spending return -

:25:10.:25:11.

without a reasonable excuse. Some invoices for payments

:25:12.:25:15.

were also absent. The Commission has now notified

:25:16.:25:20.

the Metropolitan Police of a possible criminal offence,

:25:21.:25:22.

after seeing evidence that suggested some people in the party knew

:25:23.:25:24.

the spending return wasn't complete We asked the Lib Dems

:25:25.:25:27.

for an interview but were told In a statement a party spokesperson

:25:28.:25:31.

said: "These mistakes, caused by issues with a small number

:25:32.:25:35.

of local accounting units, were a result of human error

:25:36.:25:38.

and failures of process." We can now speak to

:25:39.:25:40.

the Chief Executive of the Electoral Commission,

:25:41.:25:45.

Claire Bassett. Do you accept that from the Liberal

:25:46.:25:53.

Democrats, as an explanation? I think what we have to be clear about

:25:54.:25:58.

is the law sets out very clearly what is needed, what should be in

:25:59.:26:02.

the spending returns, which are a really important part of giving

:26:03.:26:05.

voters confidence in our democratic processes. These laws have been

:26:06.:26:09.

around for sometime, 15 years, and the Liberal Democrats are an

:26:10.:26:12.

established party. So they did know what they needed to do. We were

:26:13.:26:15.

pleased they cooperated with us, during the course of the

:26:16.:26:18.

investigation and they have offered that explanation, but we are clear

:26:19.:26:22.

that the spending returns should be complete and should coincide with

:26:23.:26:25.

the law, setting out all of the spend that should be in them. It is

:26:26.:26:29.

not just the Liberal Democrats who have seen the maximum fine imposed

:26:30.:26:32.

on they. Labour were fined ?20,000 for a similar offence in oak. The

:26:33.:26:36.

Electoral Commission's investigation into the Conservative spend at the

:26:37.:26:40.

2015 general election are still ongoing, so, do you see a systemic

:26:41.:26:45.

problem here? What we are seeing is what we have seen in the two

:26:46.:26:49.

investigations we have concluded, where there were short-comings in

:26:50.:26:52.

those spending returns, those spending returns are an important

:26:53.:26:56.

part of being clear about what happens at elections. What we are

:26:57.:26:59.

calling for today is an increase in our ability to fine people who break

:27:00.:27:04.

those rules, because we feel that the ?20,000 fine is just

:27:05.:27:06.

disproportionately small to the amount of spend that we are talking

:27:07.:27:10.

about at general lings. Indeed t could be seen as a cost of business

:27:11.:27:15.

and we think it should be higher and bigger, so it acts as a proper

:27:16.:27:19.

deterrent and ensures people do return those complete... As you say,

:27:20.:27:22.

people might or the parties might feel it is a price worth paying.

:27:23.:27:26.

What sort of level of sanction would you suggest as a proper deterrent We

:27:27.:27:30.

are seeking today to really open the debate to have a look at how much

:27:31.:27:34.

that should be increased by. If you look at other regulators, the

:27:35.:27:37.

Information Commissioner, for example, can issue fines in the

:27:38.:27:40.

hundreds of thousands. So, we loo like Parliament to revisited and

:27:41.:27:44.

have a look at this and increase it significantly, but we haven't set a

:27:45.:27:47.

top level for that because we don't feel it is for us to do. Thank you

:27:48.:27:52.

very much. It sounds like all the parties are at this. The viewers

:27:53.:27:56.

will think how disgraceful I make thep poupt is the Conservative

:27:57.:27:58.

Party's position is we have followed the rules. You are being

:27:59.:28:02.

investigated. The investigation is ongoing but we have to look at this

:28:03.:28:06.

in the context of not just the report but people have looked at

:28:07.:28:08.

this issue and the Government will respond. Right, we need to leave it

:28:09.:28:12.

there, the guests will be happy to hear, floss time for the spelling

:28:13.:28:16.

item today. Which is a pity. Just time to put you out of your misery

:28:17.:28:20.

gaven you the answer to Guest the Year. The year was 1979 of the

:28:21.:28:25.

election and the Winter of Discontent. Press that red button,

:28:26.:28:31.

please. There we go, very gently. Nothing malign happens.

:28:32.:28:36.

And Andrew Miller from Lancashire. I can spell that, too. Has won. Well

:28:37.:28:42.

done, Andrew Miller from Lancashire. You get a daily Politics' mug. The

:28:43.:28:47.

1.00 news is starting on BBC One. We will be back tomorrow at noon with

:28:48.:28:51.

another edition of the Daily Politics, here on BBC Two. I hope

:28:52.:28:54.

you can join us. Until then, goodbye.

:28:55.:29:01.

I'm starting this new job, I'm taking over a really tough school.

:29:02.:29:05.

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