16/01/2017 Daily Politics

Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

It will be "a great thing", and Britain is "smart to get out".

How quickly could a trade deal be done with the

The Northern Ireland Government is on the verge of collapse

as the deadline approaches for the appointment

of a new Deputy First Minister, after the resignation of Martin

Should MPs and peers stay put during the proposed ?3.5 billion

Or could brushing shoulders with the builders end up costing

While Brexit Nativity does have an undeniable ring to it...

And how the marketing men and women are muscling

of the programme today are two of British politics'

campaigner Dominic Raab who now sits of the Brexit Select Committee.

And former Shadow Cabinet Minister Mary Creagh.

So, the man who will be US President by the end of the week has

love-bombed Britain, confirming what a big fan

Donald Trump's intervention comes as more details emerge of the stance

the UK will adopt in negotiations with the EU.

Tomorrow, Theresa May makes her big speech on leaving the EU,

where she is expected to push for a so-called "hard Brexit",

prioritising immigration controls and take us out of the customs union

Meanwhile, Chancellor Phillip Hammond, in an interview with German

newspaper Welt am Sonntag, warned that if the EU limits UK

market access after Brexit, Britain could look at an alternative

economic model, seen as a warning to the EU that UK could further

In an interview in the Times with former Conservative Cabinet

Minister Michael Gove, Donald Trump, who will become

President on Friday, said that a trade deal with the UK

would come "very quickly" and be done "properly".

He said it would be "good for both sides".

Mr Trump said he would be meeting Theresa May "right after I get

The President-elect said he had "great respect" for Angela Merkel,

but said that she made "one very catastrophic mistake" by opening

Germany's doors to what he called "all of these illegals from wherever

The European Union, Mr Trump said, is "a vehicle for Germany"

which is why Britain was right to get out.

He predicted other countries would soon follow Britain's lead.

I thought the UK was so smart in getting out.

And you were there, and you guys wrote it and put

Trump said that Brexit is going to happen.

Obama said they'd go to the back of the line,

meaning, if it does happen, and then he had to retract.

Are his comments on getting a quick deal a vindication of the Brexit

referendum? I think they are one instruction of

where the EU tried and failed to get a free trade deal, there are others

from Latin America to China and India, and shows Britain outside the

EU is well-placed to do those deals. Huge benefits for jobs, cutting

prices in the country it confirms what is already written into the

political and business markets, there are advantages and it is clear

we will have those. Can you trust Donald Trump to

deliver a trade deal? The truth is, as with all trade

deals with the US, we have to go through Congress. We have a new

president taking the opportunity of saying there is a win- win. His

language was interesting. That must be better than under President

Barack Obama who said we are at the back of the queue.

The rhetoric is better. It is nonsense. Looking at that photo of

Michael Gove, I was struck by the words, Lala land. No trade deal is

seen as completely fair on both sides. It can only take place after

2019 when we can leave the EU at earliest. Michael Gove says he wants

agencies -- a transitional vote. Trump won the election saying he was

against open trade, against the trade deal with the TE TEP. A

protectionist president. The idea he will open up to our market, we Stade

Toulousain our food standards and assurances.

He has a track record of God had it in himself -- to our market, we will

lose our food standards. But this cannot happen until we

leave the EU so it cannot be that quick. The EU commission has

reiterated that timetable, no free trade deal can be confirmed until

the UK has left the EU. I can understand why those on the

Remain side are disappointed. But it must be a good thing America with

its massive market is saying, we are up for this.

But not before 2019. We couldn't sign it before then. But

people have been talking about 20 years to do this deal. But it is a

priority for him. I am not sure why someone the other side feel so

disappointed by something which must be good news for British firms, jobs

and consumer prices. How can you be confident it will be

good news? It may well be, and they will want to hear more about the

deal. But, if you look at TTIP, which predates him, there was a lot

of concern about opening up our health service. People believe there

could have been public services opened up to the American privately

owned company, could that happen with a trade deal?

I think it is rather flawed. The way it was characterised was

wrong. But what was particularly subject to criticism was the dispute

settlement mechanism. The advantage of being outside the EU is we have

our own dispute settlement division which would kill this scaremongering

about the NHS. Looking at the UK economy, Mark

Carney, who was sceptical about post-Brexit, has said the economy is

growing faster than predicted. Now we have Donald Trump saying he can

get a quick trade deal. Brexit does seem to be working at the moment.

Brexit has not happened yet. The referendum, Mark Carney took very

strong action in the weeks following the referendum in order to shore up

the British economy. In the Autumn Statement from Philip Hammond, we

saw a ?59 billion black hole. What economic evidence is there to

say in the aftermath of the referendum the economy has tanked?

The reduction in our tax intake is the evidence of the economy has not

done as well. Downgrading the economy, the fact the pound is

trading... Hang on.

We are the fastest growing economy in the G7. In the aftermath of June,

growth went up, not down. Mark Carney dudes some action for

quantitive easing to stave off a shock to the UK economy -- Mark

Carney took action. The action the bank of England governor took has

postponed that shock. You are still expecting there to be

a shock? And the pound is now trading down.

The markets have reacted to some extent to what Theresa May is going

to say and Philip Hammond did say about taking action if you can't get

the deal you want with the EU. Are you worried? People might have said

the pound was overvalued, if it continues to slide and stayed at a

low level for a sustained period, that will hurt people.

15% devotion is pretty healthy. Mervyn King said the economy is

better placed to shift from a consumer spending model... You

haven't heard... He said better placed

post-referendum to move to a manufacturing and exporting model.

Actually, devaluation within certain parameters is a good thing.

For exports, it is better. No, our exports are made using

dollar traded, euro traded imports. Most things made in this country are

from components from outside the country.

Manufactures in Wakefield are concerned their prices are going up

and they cannot put their export prices up as much.

The construction industry is entering recession.

But it is going up, inflation. The global talent competitive

rankings have written post-Brexit moving up from seventh to third. We

need to be a competitive country driving growth, looking out to the

world. The EU is important but the point about Brexit, is actually that

the real opportunities for the future for businesses and consumers

as will be the growth markets. We export more to parts of Europe

and the idea we will leave this market, we are leaving it.

These are two different things. We are almost certainly going to leave

being a formal member of the customs union. But the opportunities...

To retain strong trade is acknowledged on the European side.

But not by those who are disappointed those outcomes had not

come to fruition. We'll get merry back on to

scrutinise this. Do you agree more countries will

leave the EU? I hope not. I don't think they will

because there is a mood... I was in Brussels in November, and there is a

determination from European leaders the EU will not fall apart as a

result of our vote. Some of the other statements less scrutinised by

Trump, dropping sanctions on Russia, and talking about native being

obsolete, these are things which will affect our security in the

months to come. What will Theresa May tomorrow say?

What would you like to hear about our negotiating position?

She has been clear since October the things we are not going to do, being

faithful to the referendum verdict, not subject to the free movement.

Get control over immigration, not subject to ECJ jurisdiction.

What we now need to do is turn the page and start talking with

confidence, the economy has proved resilient, and with a general state

of spirit, looking for the win- win. The EU is a flawed political club.

We still want strong trade, security cooperation. We are going into that

and Theresa May will spelt this out, the positive case for our

post-Brexit relationship with Europe.

And the unity between both sides? I don't agree with Donald Trump on

Russia but that is an illustration where the EU is irrelevant and

outside the EU we can demonstrate we can be a strong ally to our native

friends. The Chancellor implied if he

couldn't get a trade deal, Britain would take other action. -- Can be a

strong ally with our Nato friends. I do not want to see us moving to a

low welfare, no regulation type of offshoot of the US. That is a wrong

feature and not what people voted for in the referendum.

Theresa May is used to appearing in the newspapers.

But we learnt over the weekend that she's about to take a starring role

So, our question for today is, which magazine

At the end of the show, Dominic and Mary will give

pubs he doesn't know. He might know which one it isn't, put it that way.

Top gear. The Northern Ireland government

is on the verge of collapse this afternoon which could force

the Secretary of State, James Brokenshire,

to call fresh elections. At the moment we can't go to

Northern Ireland so we are going to talk about Parliament in terms of

the restoration. MPs and peers are being asked

to move out of the Houses of Parliament for five to eight

years whilst a ?3.5 billion But now, up to 100 MPs

of all parties are backing which allow them to remain

in the Palace of Westminster The Conservative MP

Shailesh Vara is one of them. This beautiful Gothic revival

celebration of democracy, designed by Charles Barry,

is almost 150 years old. And now it's due for

another major repair job. A recent report by my fellow MPs

and peers on the restoration and renewal of the Palace

of Westminster has recommended that the Commons and peers together

with all the other people who work on the site should leave the Palace

whilst work is carried out. The argument is that this

would be the cheaper option, rather than work being carried out

whilst we stay on-site. If this proposal does go ahead then

the Commons would move into the Department of Health along

Whitehall just along there and the Lords would move

into the QE2 Centre just The figures that are used

in the report don't take account The loss of revenue

at the QE2 Centre. Or the ?600 million that would be

spent in patch-up work before In fact, the report itself says that

significantly more work needs to be done before budgets can

be properly costed. Hardly surprising therefore

that the powerful and influential Treasury Select Committee

is carrying out an investigation We are told that the work needs

to be done urgently. So urgently that the full decant

would take place in six years' time. Instead, I'm suggesting that work

commences immediately Much of it in the basement

where lights are needed So if the work is done

round the clock in three shifts instead of one,

then clearly the timeframe would be Following the referendum result,

at a time when we need to make new friends abroad and secure

favourable trade agreements, we should be making the most of this

iconic building that is Parliament. At this crucial time,

it is absurd that we should be seeking to sell UK PLC

from a temporary building in the courtyard of

the Department of Health. The notion that we should be leaving

the Palace of Westminster for the convenience of the builders

is simply wrong. The Palace comprises

of some eight acres. There is plenty of room here for us

to stay while the work And Shailesh Vara joins us now,

as does the Labour MP, Chris Bryant, who sits of the Restoration

and Renewal Joint Committee. Welcome to both of you. Why can't

the restoration work be done around MPs while they remain in the Palace

of Westminster? There is restoration work to another moment, the rooms

are being done because there was a strange construction, one metre

square cast-iron slab put in in the 19th century, and that work can go

on now but what can't go on now is the major mechanical and electrical

engineering business that needs to be tackled. You only showed a tiny

proportion of that. It is the pipes. The building has 1.2 miles of

corridor in the basement and that is now chock-a-block with cables,

high-pressure steam central heating system next to electrical cables,

you would never put them next to each other and asbestos. Why are you

waiting to start the work if it's that urgent? Because we've got to do

it properly, strip out the electrics in the whole building, there's only

one drainage system and ends up just underneath the speakers Gardens and

so you can't split the building up into bits. I understand lots of MPs

would like to stay sitting in the chamber. That's what we did in the

19th century which led to a dramatic increase in the cost, and meant it

overran by 42 years. If that problem will have now. They have done the

work on it. You have come to it later. They have been through

endless research and quotes and budgets and surveys of the whole

building. Surely they are best placed to know what will cost less

and be the most efficient in terms of carrying out this work? I don't

accept that because anyone who reads the report will see it abundantly

clear they start off with the premise they want us out. Why would

they want that? The report only quotes people who say we should

leave. The fact is that the report makes a passing acknowledgement that

they could work there. They could do 12 stages and I think it's important

to remember 74% of the work is cables and pipes, much of it

underground, so there's no reason why a lot of the work can't carry on

underground. It only gives recognition to having one shift of

work. I'm sorry, the facts are wrong. They are not wrong. You are

just wrong about this. It's not all underground. There's only one

electric system, there's only one central heating system,

high-pressure steam system which is very unusual in the UK. You got to

take it out in one go. You can do that over the summer holidays? No,

it will take several years. There are 98 risers and at any moment if

you had a fire like we had the other day, completely inaccessible to the

fire patrols which go around 24 hours a day, because our building is

exempt from the fire regulations in the rest of the country, it would

spread throughout the building very rapidly. Our report only refers to

people saying you have to move out, that's because we asked every expert

could we stay in and they all said no, you've got to move out otherwise

it will cost more. Experts are not popular necessary following the

referendum but do you think it would be worth listening to them? No,...

Well, that was fairly clear! Visit a number of experts have given them

the answers they want. At the time the Brexit, we should make sure we

make the most use of this iconic building, parliament. Imagine our

opponents overseas, going out on our own, and saying, this is the new

headquarters of the UK Parliament. What if it falls into disrepair? It

won't. Why are they proposing six years? On one hand, they say there's

going to be a catastrophe if we don't do the work urgently and then

they want to do it in six years. In the meantime, they will spend ?100

million every year on catch up work. Sorry, you've already done a film.

The opening paragraph of the report says a significant amount of work

needs to be done to ascertain the problem of budgets. Hang on, let

Chris speak. It sounds to me like there's been work done, quite a few

interviews on the in-depth research done into this issue. There may be a

huge number of caveats but when you look at the project now and the cost

element, ?3.5 billion, are you saying that the cost would double if

you didn't move out and work around MPs and peers? That's the experience

of the 19th century and I can't see why are we any different. Let Chris

answer. The truth is, just one basic point, because there is one set of

electrics and all the rest of it, if you want to stay in the building,

and keep a bit of the building open during the work, you have got to put

temporary electrics and all the rest in and that immediately adds an

extra amount to the cost, added to which, as I understand it, his

proposal is the Commons should sit in the House of Lords and the Lords

should go in the gallery like happened in the Second World War but

the problem is, the Second World War, there were no divisions and

about 30 people turned up everyday. You are suggesting we would move

every day when there is a vote, 650 MPs going from portcullis house to

the House of Lords, walking along a public payment, the biggest security

risk you can imagine. Cut this objection actually delay the sale

process? That's my biggest anxiety. The government needs to allow the

House of Commons and the House of Lords, two different bodies, to make

their own decision about what had happened and the first thing is, we

shouldn't be saying let's do this, done, we should say, let's set up a

delivery authority like we did for the Olympics to make sure there's

proper coherent body of people and they can put together the business

plan. Six years to do that? The business plan will be ready in 18

months' time. We looked at this for one year. Are you prepared to move

out? First of all, I deferred to the infinitely superior knowledge of the

House of Commons. Although they don't agree. I will make whatever

solution works the best. I would like to say the least disruption for

the lowest cost and those other two big entities. It's the classic

construction dilemma, like working on the tube and railways forth the

evidence is, if you work on a live system could cost you twice as much

and take three times as long so my evidence from being Shadow Transport

Secretary, it's always best to move out. It's an iconic building at

every tourist in the world wants to have their photograph taken in front

of which is why we have to protect it. Don't talk over each other. With

the asbestos especially, the building could be closed down

tomorrow in definitely. Before I let you go, do you want to be Speaker of

the house? The Mail on Sunday rang me on Saturday, and I failed to

predict anything last year in politics. I'm finding it difficult

to predict anything this year. My ability to predict even my own

future, let alone John Bercow's is not. You would like to? I can't

predict anything. I'm not asking you to predict. I think that is yes.

Anyway, thank both very much. The Northern Ireland government

is on the verge of collapse this afternoon which could force

the Secretary of State, James Brokenshire,

to call fresh elections. The crisis has been prompted

by the resignation last week of Deputy First Minister,

Martin McGuiness, in protest at First Minister Arlene Foster's

involvement in the renewable heat incentive scheme - the so called

"cash for ash" scandal. Let's talk to our correspondent

Stephen Walker who's at Stormont. Stephen, give us the timings of

today. I understand 5pm is the deadline for Sinn Fein to find

another Deputy First Minister? Actually, in the last 20 minutes,

we've had political drama because the do you P have nominated Arlene

Foster as First Minister, it was expected, and Sinn Fein refused

declined to nominate Martin McGuinness and that was flagged up

in advance. We knew that was going to happen so now we are moving

towards this 5pm deadline when the Secretary of State has to call an

election. Basically, you can't have a First Minister without a Deputy

First Minister or vice versa pulled up they go together in this

executive. We have a situation now where we have a First Minister and

we don't have a Deputy First Minister, so there's got to be a

call at 5pm and it's looking like a certainty we will have an election.

What impact will that have on Brexit negotiations and Northern Ireland's

role in that? The British government to some extent are playing that

down. David broken Shire is saying just because we don't have a working

executive, it doesn't mean the views of Northern Ireland would be taken

on board. He said he is Northern Ireland Aqaba 's representative in

the Cabinet and will put those views forward and still have discussions

with committees and it will still take place in London. He says the

views of people install Montt, and the views of people in Northern

Ireland will be taken on board, so whilst they didn't want this to

happen, and it's an enormous headache for Downing Street, James

Brokenshire is saying the views of people in Northern Ireland, when it

comes to Brexit, will still be taken on board. If fresh elections are

called, it's likely we will have the do you P and Sinn Fein as the two

players gain full stop well they have resolved their differences,

because when I interviewed both sides, it went way beyond

cash-for-ash. Not at the end of this election campaign. What you are

looking at is a divisive campaign, the First Minister Arlene Foster is

on record as saying it's going to be a brutal campaign, some people

saying it's not an orange and green issue but the competence of people

behind me. It's going to be a divisive campaign, all those issues,

cash-for-ash, legacy, the past, the Irish language, are not going to be

resolved during the campaign but what people are saying is when they

come back after the campaign, they will have to do have negotiations

and if they can't solve that through the negotiations, technically, there

it will be another election and if that does not happen, then you would

think about the British government having direct rule serve as a whole

series of questions in this political crisis. Thank you very

much. When you think back to previous Prime Minister's and their

involvement in Northern Ireland and the peace process, bringing the two

sides together, Tony Blair or John Major, do you think Theresa May has

been present enough in this dispute? Not at all, the question for the

British Government is whether Brexit taking up all the political and

administrative bandwidth? The key thing is to protect that piece which

was so hard on after so many decades of war, and provide political

stability. Could she have done more to stop the

collapse of this coalition? It is disappointing to see this

political point scoring. We have no idea on the amount of

ground work which has been done. Any Westminster -based position

delving into Northern Ireland politics, that is precarious.

It is keyed to make sure we have as much stability and make sure we have

the mechanisms of dialogue to cover the well-known concerns over the

Common travel area but the opportunities of Brexit for the

whole country and different communities so they are fed through.

It is clear that has happened. We need to see these elections through.

And have some statesman is like behaviour on this side of the Irish

Sea. So we can support the sides coming to an agreement.

It is known when British prime ministers have got involved to try

and be an honest broker, it has worked.

You are talking about in relation to the conflict which was preceded by a

huge amount beneath the surface. I am sure that is going on. I don't

think anyone has been asleep at the wheel. There are clearly huge local

tensions. On the heat incentive scheme, that

was the trigger, but there are broader issues.

There is an issue around the Prime Minister needing the votes of the

Democratic Unionist Party, they have indicated they would support the

Brexit plans. I don't think that gets in a way of

what we all want to see in Westminster which is elections, the

democratic process set up after the Good Friday agreement, to make sure

Northern Irish politicians can resolve their problems locally as

far as possible. We have two respect that. And tried

to be a force for stability. Will it be difficult if the Supreme

Court upholds the view of the High Court before it's about giving the

devolved Assembly some say in Article 50 and triggering it, and

there are elections going on, and it has collapsed. How would that work

giving Northern Ireland invoice? The Supreme Court, we are expecting

a judgment in ten days. I am not clear whether we will get a judgment

on the constitutional issues in that at the same time.

It is clear to me the issues of the border, the potential imposition of

a hard border, are of great concern. The head of the Northern Ireland's

Police Federation has warned any hard border would be a target for

distance. We don't want to, there is a dilemma. If you keep borders open

you create a back channel for people traffickers.

That is not a domestic stability point on the radar.

Will the people of Northern Ireland to be heard if there are elections?

Nobody is speaking for them while Article 50 is ongoing.

Now, standing in the drizzle outside Parliament are two of Westminster's

But before we speak to them, let's have a look at the stories

Tonight, Jeremy Corbyn will address Labour MPs

Could there be some anxious faces as they try to work out who else

might take Tristram Hunt's lead and leave Parliament?

Tomorrow, Theresa May is making her first major speech

detailing the Government's strategy for leaving the EU.

We're being told she'll make the optimistic case for Brexit.

Also tomorrow, anyone who's anyone will be

gathering for the start of the World Economic

And then on Wednesday, the Prime Minister and Jeremy Corbyn

However, all this pales into insignificance because Friday

Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 45th President

We're joined now by the New Stateman's Anoosh Chakelian

and James Lyons from the Sunday Times.

Welcome. Anoosh, what do you expect to hear

from Theresa May tomorrow? We are expecting her to say she is

prepared to leave the single market, customs union, and take Britain out

of the European Court of Justice. This isn't new, we have known

Theresa May was going to put immigration ahead of the economy for

Brexit but she has been under fire for not having a plan.

At least we are hearing it now. And James? I expect to hear as

little as possible she can get away with saying. She does not like to

volunteer information willingly. She is being forced to deliver this

speech because of the Supreme Court case bearing down on us.

We are heading for what some might call a hard or clean Brexit.

Was that underlined by Philip Hammond in his interview with the

German paper at the weekend when he said he would take the required

action if he could not get a deal with the EU?

It was like he was issuing an ultimatum, saying, we could become

this aggressive corporate tax haven or you could let us have access to

the single market but us needing to keep free movement or any of the

status quo. In terms of Theresa May saying she

wasn't going to give a running commentary, the markets have

reacted. One of my colleagues at the Sunday

Times was told by people in Government last week they expected a

market correction. We were joking about buying some euros over the

weekend. There will be further market

reaction tomorrow. Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday in his

interview with Andrew Marr he said he thought Labour had had a good

week. Their week was mixed. Jeremy Corbyn

was prevaricating over immigration not saying whether he agreed Labour

was in favour of free movement. It has been his relaunch as a

populist leader. He keeps using language like, the system is raped,

the elite are taking Britain for a ride.

In a way that is working, his policy about wanting a wage cap on bosses

who earn 20 times more than their employees was popular.

You are looking quizzical, James? I don't think anyone could describe

it as mixed for Labour, it was a catastrophe, the diabolical relaunch

and the resignation of Tristram Hunt.

The interesting polling over the weekend was the one that showed

Theresa May has a 12 point lead on health. Traditionally the strongest

subject for Labour. That was in the middle of an NHS crisis last week.

Like you. No doubt you will be watching the inauguration.

A diabolical relaunch last week? We had a series of U-turns within 24

hours and what annoyed Labour MPs was after a reasonable performance

at Prime Minister is question is, to have the Leader of the Opposition

spokesperson briefing on Nato issues which were not raised, casting doubt

on whether a future Labour Government would respond under an

Article 5 provocation. That was appalling.

That person needs to be reined in. Does Labour support nuclear power?

We do, as part of an energy mix. We have dangerously low levels of

capacity in the British system. Jeremy Corbyn has a principled view

of being antinuclear but he says there should be a mix. Does he need

to say more in terms of what he believes about nuclear power when it

comes to the Copeland by-election? Workers want reassurance any Labour

and would protect their jobs and pensions, something we have tried to

do in opposition during the enterprise Bill. And before the

by-election was announced, we sought to do that through the back door

without Parliamentary scrutiny. Labour politicians have stood

alongside the workers of Sellafield and we will continue to stand by

them. You would like to hear Jeremy Corbyn

Seymore. In unequivocal terms. How dangerous

could Copeland be? Copeland and Stoke on Trent are

Hartland Labour seats which we held in 2015, and election we lost badly.

We have reasonable majorities and the Tories do not have much

representation locally. These are seats we should hold onto

particularly with the NHS in that area, the proposals to move the

maternity unit from -- down the road to Carlisle.

The poll says that Theresa May is more trusted over the NHS.

We need to see action in the polls as well, see movement.

The PLP meeting today, what will the atmosphere be like? Tristam Hunt,

Jamie Reid, stepping down to take jobs outside of politics. Do you

know any other politics -- Labour colleagues doing the same? Are you

surprised by this? No, I don't. I know Joan -- I know

Jamie had an eight hour journey to London with young children still at

home. This job is a vocation as much as employment. If people have the

opportunity to pursue a different location outside Parliament or feel

this is no longer their vocation, people have the right to make the

changes right for them and their families.

We stand again in 2020? Yes. Whenever the next election comes.

There has been criticism about Jeremy Corbyn by both those MPs

leaving. Do you agree? Both of them have been

critical. Last year, 122 MPs did a vote of no-confidence. That is not

something that exceptional. I do think people are looking to

their futures and working out what is best for them and their families.

We are a party that wants people to have better lives and it is allowed

for Labour MPs to have better lives. And back to that interview

with Donald Trump. In a moment, I'll be talking

to Michael Gove who conducted First, here's the President-elect

on his mother and her The UK, my mother

was very ceremonial. I think that's where I got this

aspect, cos my father She loved the ceremony

and the beauty, because nobody does And she had great

respect for the Queen. It was fascinating interviewing him,

he is a force of nature. You don't even need to ask a question. But it

comes, commentary on everything from Nato to Twitter.

Is he somebody ready to lead the free world?

What do you make of him? President Trump will be different from the

candidate. The candidate had a deliberate campaign style which was

big, bombastic, brash. As president, of course he will still be the

personality we know but he will look at things in a more businesslike

way. There is a difference between the marketeer, and the deal-maker in

office. We haven't seen evidence in change

in style, he is still tweeting away, will he continue?

He was clear he will continue to tweet, he regards that as a way of

cutting through what he regards as media distortion.

If you look at the people he has built around him in the Cabinet,

James Matias, it would have been unlikely someone of his stature

would have agreed to serve in Cabinet.

The team he is assembling, some of the things he says in an interview,

suggests he will govern not innate radically different way but in a

different way to how he campaigned. Did you give him a proper grilling?

We were there for one hour, we had the opportunity to ask questions on

a range of issues. The critical thing is when you are talking to

someone like Donald Trump, you can try to argue with him but he is like

a river in spate, when you ask a question, the flow of language just

comes at a torrent. Where were the difficult questions

from you on his links to Vladimir Putin? We asked specifically whether

or not he would stand by what he said Nato. He did shifters position.

We ask them about everything from the wrong deal to whether or not he

would stand down his campaign promise on Muslims, and he provided

that. The critical thing I thought was it was important for me and my

colleague from Germany to cover a wide range of topics and allow

newspaper readers to form their own opinion. You didn't challenge him on

his inconsistencies and there were many on very pressing issues. You

say yourself you asked on a wide-ranging topic, but why didn't

you challenge him before Christmas he said he wanted a nuclear arms

race with Russia. Very provocative language. Now he says he wants to

reduce it. Which is it? You can ask him when he appears on this

programme. But you had him therefore one hour. We managed to generate

from him compelling news on a variety of issues including a

commitment to a rapid trade deal with Theresa May. Do you trust that,

with his inconsistencies, like Syria, he was praised in Russia for

getting involved in that because they were bashing Isis and now he

says in your interview actually it has caused a humanitarian crisis in

Syria. These are diametrically opposite views so when he says he

wants a quick trade deal, do you trust him? I think he will be

different from candidates from. I think that inconsistency is a

different thing. A dangerous thing when it comes to foreign policy.

Many things he said as a candidate are deeply worrying and I hope in

the interests of the world he rolls back from some of them as President.

I think what he said about Nato during the course of the campaign

was dangerous and I think in the interview he suggests a more nuanced

approach. I hope that will be the case. But my role in the interview

was to make sure that he could speak for himself and people will form

their own judgments. There are inconsistencies between what he said

on the stump and what we may see in the White House. We can form a

judgment like the American people, about whether or not they think he's

doing a good job. The whole question of trust is ultimately one for the

American people and for the world leaders who will engage with him. I

was doing my job as a reporter to ensure he cover the waterfront and

then each of us, as citizens, will form our judgment. I said during the

campaign but I would have voted for Hillary Clinton and I've also said,

some of the things he said are not acceptable but there's a difference.

The BBC understands the reporter who allows a politician to speak for

themselves, and an individual who can form a judgment about what they

say. It's also about challenging, as a politician at the other end. If we

look at the picture here of you with Donald Trump, is that a very

professional, do you think? Thumbs up? Do you do that with all the

politicians you do? Yes, if you want to have a selfie with me afterwards,

you can. I've always never had the opportunity. Your German partner in

this didn't stand with his thumbs up. People might just say that's a

bit frivolous but you don't think so? I think the people should have

their own views about that picture. I think I got a smile on my face and

so has he. On that basis, you got there before Boris Johnson and

Theresa May in terms of face time with Donald Trump. Euan Nigel

Farage. Is not going to be Ambassador. Could you? I don't think

diplomacy is my strong suit. Would you like to? No, I like being an MP

and writing for the times. Why not a good ambassador? They require

different skills but we got a very good primer list at the moment in

Theresa May and a very good ambassador. How did the interview

come about? We approach them and Donald Trump thought was a good idea

to talk to Britain's best newspaper and the most successful newspaper.

And they chose you to do the interview, none of the other

political journalists? We made sure that we sent a professional team,

the photographer did a brilliant job, and I hope Times readers will

appreciate what we did but if people think it was shoddy journalism I can

only apologise because I'm a valid serve newcomer to the trade and I'll

do better with my next job. What is your job? You are elected by the

people in Surrey but you talk about standing up to people... Nothing

about comments on women. You are talking about a journalist as your

colleague but it creates questions about the second job you have got. I

think people will form their own judgment about the appropriateness

about politicians writing. And thumbs up? Whether it's Boris

Johnson or Tony Benn? Michael Foot would never have done that stand in

a million years. We can't know but Michael Foot combined a very

successful career as a local politician would also being a

journalist and was editor of the Evening Standard and worked for Lord

Beaverbrook. Before he was leader of the Labour Party. And I would never

want to be the leader of the Labour Party. And on that stunning piece of

news that are not going to be the Labour Party! We will stop this now.

Thank you for coming in. Now, are we seeing

the commercialisation of politics? By the end of the week,

a marketing man will be in the White House and an increasing

number of companies seem to have recognised the commercial

opportunities presented by politics. President Obama loves music

and has long been a fan So much so that he recently joked

that he was hoping for a job with the company when he

left the White House. And it seems Spotify's boss has just

the vacancy for him. He tweeted Obama a spoof

job description for So if you go for this job,

you should have at least eight years' experience of running

a highly regarded nation, a warm and friendly attitude

and a Nobel Peace Prize. In contrast, President-elect Trump

is used as the butt of a joke "Hurry, it won't last.

It's limited, very limited." He'll be voting Leave

on his next appraisal. The other big political campaign

of 2016, the EU referendum, has been used by several companies

in their marketing. The vote was often a hot topic

in Britain's public houses and possibly even more so in those

owned by Brexit-backer and pub He printed 200,000 beer mats

promoting the Leave campaign. Meanwhile, Ryanair offered cut-price

flights for people to fly And for those unhappy

with the Leave result, the chance to see no Europe,

hear no Europe and speak no Europe. Ryanair launched a sale with flights

costing just ?10 for people wanting But please note, other music

websites, food outlets, Here with us now to cast an expert

eye over those adverts is Murray MacLennan,

the worldwide CEO of the advertising Welcome to the Daily Politics. What

do you make of these companies using politics in the advertising? There's

nothing new in some respects because what we attempt to do is reflect

society and understand the target audience and the last three years

has seen unprecedented interest and emotion in politics, party politics,

but issues, independence, Brexit, Donald Trump, and its arguments

tween not just YouTube are people in the pub to advertisers and people

down the football ground, so people are going to companies to but the

minute advertising. We used to joke these things work not joked about

down in the dog and duck but now they are. Do think it's an effective

way of engaging consumers? It shows we are humorous. I think it would

take a brave advertiser to take sides. Ryanair does but their

history is about being opinionated and combative, so it's in their

brand, but I don't think you will see Tesco, NatWest, taking sides

shortly. They are very cautious, aren't they? It's not their job.

Over the New Year, we saw Lego take a stand against the Daily Mail and

not advertise whereas John Lewis said it's not our job to take sides.

Our customers have different views and were not there to tell them

that. Do you think those lines will be blurred in the future and it will

become more difficult for them not to take sides, even if it actually

is part of their moderate? They may choose to because what we are seeing

more and more companies and brands having points of view. They are

meant to fulfil something in society over and about making money for

their shareholders and a social purpose if you like and can you have

a social purpose without politics? Often but not always. I think with

greater engagement on these emotional subjects, and that need

for companies to have a point of view, you could do. Is it a growing

trend or these exceptions? I think they are so deep-rooted and

long-running, I think over the next two or three years we'll see more

companies having views, using the engagement of people in the

advertisements in these big issues, whether it is Brexit or trump. I

think it could well be a trend, I'm afraid. Does it surprise you? Not

really because it's been part of the political fabric for so long and I

can see the pitfalls, businesses being perceived to back a side, or

getting a challenge back themselves. I think for the politicians it's a

good thing. When you think about Brexit, 72% turnout, far higher than

people expected, and all forms of mediums, getting product placement,

to reach parts and voters in a way traditional politics doesn't appeal,

is a good thing. Would you advise any of your clients to piggyback big

political events which have happened like the referendum and the trump

inauguration? It depends on the brand and the company. It there is

strong brand and has political roots, spotter five know their

target audience. We have to know what their values are. If you are

reflecting their values, they like to be challenged, then we would do,

yes. What you think of this? I love the adverts. Britain is brilliant at

advertisements, and our industry is precious globally, loved and

revered, and our creativity and quirky character comes out in that

and I watched La La Land at the weekend and I watched an advert for

NatWest bank talking about climate change and I thought to myself,

there you go, NatWest are part of a crisis which means people have never

pay rise for eight years but now they are trying to do good. I'm glad

you've made that clear on the programme. The other thing is, I

think politics is more at the front now than it's ever been our public

discourse so why wouldn't you talk about the things people are talking

about? Just stay with us for the end of the programme.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

The question was, which magazine will Theresa May be featuring in?

Vogue. It could be top gear. You both got it right. I'm going to

tread very carefully. Thanks very much to all of our guests today.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big