20/08/2016 Dateline London

Hello and welcome to Dateline London.

The jailing of a British notorious recruiter for Islamic extremism.

India - Pakistan - and the constant battle over

Plus: Donald Trump shakes up his campaign yet again.

My guests today are: Mina al Oraibi a writer on Arab affairs.

Jef McAllister who is an American writer and broadcaster.

Ashis Ray of Ray Media and Adam Raphael who is

Anjem Choudary has for years been one of the most

despised people in Britain - a foghorn voice stirring

up some young Muslims to fight for Islamic State

and outraging many more Muslims and non Muslims with the fact

that he got away with it for so long.

For two decades he managed to just stay with and the law now he has

been jailed. If I can start with you, Mina. Anjem Choudary, totally

notorious. What is your reaction. The reaction from many people is

finalised. This should have happened many years ago. He has used

loopholes in the British legal system knowing when he could say

things that would still rile up people but not get them in trouble

what the law. He has recently used technology and his Twitter account

was even live the day he was convicted. He is part of a wider

network of people who are preachers of hate. Rather than on Islamic

pictures they are preachers of hate and they are dividing society more

and more. -- Islamic preachers of hate. So in some sense this is

significant but in another way it is troubling because now he is

imprisoned there are some concerns he can buy that allows people would

then prison and maintain some networks outside of prison. It is

important this does not become a place for him to continue his

network in some way or tried to look like a martyr. You how great is that

danger? I think it is great and the prison authorities will have to take

steps to stop this. One must remember the Charlie Hebdo murderers

were radicalised and present by a similar character. I am critical of

British Government for allowing him to preach for so long. Yes, it was

within the law but the law this directive and the difficulty is a

balancing free speech and the ability to control people like that

and I believe we have drawn the line in the wrong place. While

acknowledging the importance of free speech but judge did not allow

someone like him to go on reaching this for more than a decade. With

the internet, his words and pictures, some of them are still

available online. It is very difficult as if it is not him if it

to somebody else. The weekly internet works and the way people

can find things -- the way the internet works. And these can

reinforce these views. An interesting study showed most people

who were arrested for terrorist offences in this country or working

in the Prevent programme on the verge of it's still the personal

contact on their way to radicalisation. It is not just

something you do with the few strokes of the keyboard so it is

important for authorities to keep track of the networks and CD

interactions but Twitter says it has got many accounts for terrorism this

year but these things are still up to date. This is something that

requires more resources and attention and is not something we do

naturally, it requires a rethink about how we look after the

particular hate mongers without alienating other people for whom the

idea they are intervened in their own society, you are not allowed to

do things that you think are perfectly normal, we have two

obviously be careful to enlist the work of these people. It is

boundaries of free speech. What can you say? You can look at it that

way, I agree. That is the most serious question. I think what is

interesting is he has been convicted for not relate what he did or what

he preached within Britain but for an external matchers matter, his

support for Isis. -- external matter. The question Britain must

ask is why it is happening and why are so many people susceptible to

his influence? I think there are certain fundamentals that Britain

must look at. One of them is the policy of multiculturalism which has

led to a policy of appeasement and this has created a vote among

political -- fought among the groups that politicians are choosing. That

a vote among groups. What is happening is multiculturalism has

led to an assertion of religious identity among immigrants in this

country and this is something that Britain must be watchful of. We do

have the Prevent strategy. Mina, do you think that is working. There has

been criticism from some Muslim communities that they feel it is not

tackle the problem and there is a danger it alienates. I think Prevent

has been quite successful. In preventing people turning to

extremism? Preventing actual attacks happening because there is one thing

about ideology, because we do not want to pull the spots but in terms

of how they will act and that is where the criminal line can be

drawn. If you are going to do harm on others that is where you can have

people jailed and Anjem was Colin people to hurt others. I think

multiculturalism is quite good in this country has been a success and

people who get involved with Isis are criminals and should be treated

with such. I do not think we should seek multiculturalism is the

problem. This country has succeeded where other countries haven't by

allowing multiple identities. You can be proud of being a British but

also be proud of your roots. The Prevent strategy is focusing not

allowing cells to come together and carry out attacks and that is the

success Britain has had, touch wood, but others not. I would say a policy

of integration should have been fundamental in the policy connected

with immigration. Rather than allowing too much of assertion of

foreign identity. We do move on. India and Pakistan are two nuclear

powers who have never entirely been at peace with one another -

especially over Each accuses the other of stirring

up trouble in a sub-continental Cold War which touches China

and Afghanistan too. How likely is the possibility

of escalation into something Ashis, is this a continuation of the

same conflict or is there a new generation of young Kashmiris

getting engaged? It is larger and internal problem and problem of the

scent of people against the local administration. -- dissent. It is

also the failure of central Government and handling the

situation in Kashmir because when you have 45 days of curfews, 16

people killed in clashes between security forces that accept stay.

That is unacceptable. -- 16 people. -- 60 people. The main state in a

Kashmiri politics has been the National party, who are now in

opposition, and they expressed their fury on this matter and so have the

left parties so people in India are not exactly happy about what is

happening in Kashmir because they are killing their own people and

that is something people have found disturbing. It is an internal matter

and needs to be tackled carefully and with a consensus among political

parties. Add-on, you get the sense of British authorities are content

to leave it as an internal matter, despite historic ties. There have

been three or four Mac wars between India and Pakistan over the past 50

years and there have been frequent, apart from the wars, frequent

disturbances. The idea that this will escalate into something major,

I do not think so. More saves have too much to lose for that. The

Indian army is ten times the size of the Pakistani army. -- both sides

have too much to lose. I was in Kashmir a long time ago when it was

very peaceful but even so you could feel the underlying tensions. These

keep on coming out. I do not think there is a reasonable solution. I

think the rest of the world must be watchful -- easy solution. I

downplay it is a major, major conflict. As we heard, these are two

nuclear powers that are engaged in this conflict. Well, well become

tableaux of its? This is one of those problems -- will become

tableaux. It seems there needs to be political process. There are people

who are deeply discontented and in the past there has been the idea and

discussions involving dissident parties in Kashmir and Pakistan and

parties in India. Basically now nothing is happening and the Modi

policy appears to be economics on the comedy of money and build up the

region without doing anything about the political grievances. -- give

them money. As people get radicalised through the internet and

the side and soul of Isis, who say they want to expand into Kashmir.

The ingredients are there for things getting worse. I do not think

Washington -based that much attention, they have other crazies

to worry about. This seems to have gone off -- the other crisis. This

has gone off the bone and we need to return to it. -- on Fleetwood Mac.

You in Kashmir seeing a new generation of rebel leaders using

social media. -- they have put it on the burner. It is interesting

because there was hope there would be more political stamina to try to

come to agreements between Pakistan and India and that seems completely

implausible. Partly because there has been a building or politics but

also because of international powers that aren't really interested. But

it is important to solve this issue, or the Kashmiris themselves. Quite

often we get riled up discussion on geopolitics but at the end of the

day there are people on the ground and people are losing their lives.

The two countries are committed to solve their problems bilaterally and

peacefully. On the basis of the similar agreement of 1972 but

obvious that that is easier said than done and as long as there is

the Army in Pakistan calling the shots and there is a nexus between

the army and the religious extremists and the hardline Prime

Minister in India and things are plans. I agree nobody is likely to

be so silly as to take it further than the few exchanges of hot words.

We will move on. Donald Trump's campaign chairman

Paul Manafort received millions of dollars,

we were told this week, from the former Putin backed

government of Ukraine. He seems to have adopted a new tone

and even expressing regret for some of his comments. Will this help them

and how are his allies viewing this race?

Does his new tone really mean anything, or the departure of his

campaign German? The cute so what he expressed regret he done it from the

telephone number and when -- whenever he does that it is a lie.

-- read from a teleprompter. What he is good at is saying these things

that get them on the news, extraordinary claims, Obama is the

founder of Isis, Hillary Clinton is sick. People in favour of guns

should shoot Mrs Clinton. The Russians should happen the e-mails.

For any other kind of person to see any of these things with this

qualified but this is what has worked for him, it got him the

nomination and gotten as far as he is. When he tries to be so what

policy politician does not work so the figures, what do I have to lose?

As all numbers are so low now it is hard to see how he get back -- as

his poll numbers. Georgia and Arizona, which voted for Republicans

for the past 30 years, our employee. He is below metal from the's numbers

in every battle ground state. He has a 70% disapproval rating. -- Mitt

Romey numbers. So I think he figures it is good for my brand, set uphill

and make money after she was in the campaign, I might go to work and

start my own news network and see what happens. -- Sarah Palin made

money. Don't run down the teleprompter. I got fired by the BBC

because I could not predict! Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest

operators of it. -- because I could not read it. What is happening here

is an extraordinary race. Everyone forecast this guy was a hopeless

character who would not get the nomination. He now has it, everyone

forecast he will lose, as I do. What I am interested in is will he bring

down the Republican party with him? It is an extraordinary choice for

them to have made and he could cost them dearly, both in the Senate and

house and I would be interested in your view of how serious their

losses will be. Let me bring in Mina here. What concerns are there that

these views about building a wall, clamping down on Muslims in the

country, OK, his poll ratings seem to be dropping apart without more

concern is the lasting damage? It will definitely be here. One, he

made it OK to say these things and the idea that if you are not racist

you are politically correct and being a liar, so the idea that being

politically correct is a bad thing is a lasting. Also, he will not go

away. If he loses the presidency, and I do not necessarily believe the

polls as many people will not tell the pollsters they overcome. We saw

what happened in the UK where we were complacent and people said one

thing and the result was that it. So he will not go into the wilderness

and the networking is building around him and the idea he is

getting close to Roger Ailes, just left at Fox News because of sexual

harassment case. Sort your people like that forming around him and

that could be forming a new political movement within the USA.

Is their concern about how this will play out in terms of the USA's

relations with the rest of the world? Indeed. The USA is the most

powerful country in the world and therefore the presidential election

of the USA is of concern and interest to the entire world. The

com and in chief of that country, you wonder how it is but a

mainstream political party like the Republican party have got a

candidate like this man, Donald Trump, and therefore it is indeed

worrying because the whole world is concerned about this selection and

hope something untoward does not happen. Keeping their fingers

crossed for Hillary Clinton. I suppose there is a vast number of

people in the world who was hope and pray Hillary Clinton wins. But there

are sections in the world who are very happy with Donald Trump,

including, by the way, a section of Modi's soul mates and America. What

plant has done is draw attention to a disaffected elements of the

population who have valid grievances. -- waterfront has done.

It is an important element and in respect of what happens, and I hope

he loses, he will have done a service and that extent. You cannot

ignore these people. Like many people who voted for Brexit, the

have lost out through globalisation, lost out a immigration and the

liberal consensus which I am afraid we all represent around here, we

have ignored it for too long. The tea party made this point for a long

time. I agree Donald Trump has drawn special attention to it but in order

to wallow in it, does he have a single idea that would solve the

problem seized on attention to? And Hillary Clinton is interested in the

and trying to fix infrastructure and do the hard things that the

Government must do. I take your point but I still think the is

revelling and accentuating in the problems and he has gone past so

many boundaries of almost decency is a right word, that a complicated

country requires to operate successfully. The danger he will

come out of the election, as he is already saying, the election is

illegitimate, my votes were stolen from me. The whole basis of the

society has come up which we will hear a lot more of as we get towards

the election. His new director was working with Nigel Fiveash Annie

Brexit campaigners -- Nigel Fiveash. We will hear a lot about that and

that is not the way to run a complicated country. And how great

our concerns about that, he says America withdrawing somewhat from

international engagement? If the Senate, five years on, a in

desperate dire straits and the Americans clearly very unwilling to

be drawn in. -- if you look at Syria. That is the Obama presidency.

In some ways his way of engaging was through speeches and saying we want

to be your friend. Most people see it as the main superpower, of course

we see a resurgence of Russia and everything from Russia's possible

role into the S hack and that their role in Syria this week were used in

reading airbases Obama said it was hardly anything said by the USA.

There is even be that a solution is and not holding this moral

responsibility. Clinton would be a totally different by President, for

sure. Do we have confidence in the Donald

Trump as to what his foreign policy would be, what is a rack different

type of president, for sure. Do we have confidence in the Donald Trump

as to what his foreign policy would be, what is Iraq foreign policy --

what his Iraq policy, Syria policy. We do not what -- we do not know

what he stands for. In terms of his economic and foreign policy. We have

no idea. She has no idea. The people who write his policy papers are not

working for him. The Republican Party have said they will not work

for Alan. He has not engaged in these matters seriously. -- will not

work for him. He said he will not come to the aid of a Nato ally. How

do you come up that idea? No doubt he is damaging to the USA.

Even in Russia I suspect they regard him as a lunatic, I suspect. Our

lunatic. He is speaking to a problem in America, aerial devices are based

and that cannot be ignored, rubber ones the presidency. -- device base.

People have voted this way, many of them, where art anti-immigrant in

Britain during Brexit, they were not racist -- are not anti-American.

They were sped up with the establishment and wanted their voice

heard. -- fed up. He was a reality TV star who should not have been

your best but he does speak for those people. The idea from is there

for people who have not benefited from globalisation because look at

what he stands for. He bankrupted himself for times and is still as

multimillionaire. It is the false discourse that he represents the

underprivileged, because he does not. Problem is how much damage he

will do to the Republican Party. The election of senators and

Representatives is the issue bought them because his unpopularity could

take some of them down. Is that in real danger and that sentiment and

sense there is a body of opinion in the USA but actually supports this,

is that going to, by the handle of whoever emerges as an ex-president?

The appalling as bad. But we have three more months to go. We could

have revelations of corruption, we could offer lots of other things so

who knows what will happen but right now the money from Republican

donors, they are trying to shore up the Senate, it looks like the Senate

may go Democrat, although it looks unlikely the house will go

democratic but we do not know. What happens after the election? All

barking in thinking, I am a consensus candidate, I want to build

bridges, I will be nice and people will be nice with me. But

immediately the Republicans said we will make him a one term president

and delegitimise him. Donald Trump himself was saying he was not born

in the USA. It will be hard to draw back from calling her early Clinton

a liar, a trip, a murderer. If you get this wonderful prize of being

the president and then try to make something of what is left, it will

be very complicated. And there we have to leave it.

That's it for Dateline London for this week.

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After a reasonable week it has been a disappointing start to the

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