Browse content similar to 22/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The campaigning is done, polling stations closed, but who, if anyone | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
did you choose? If we get what we like things will never be the same | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
thing. Governments expect a drubbing in local and European election, but | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
Westminster's trio might all be shamed by Nigel Farage's people's | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
army. Can I ask you who you voted for? UKIP. Why? They are the best | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
ones, simple as that. What is wrong with the other parties. Same old | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
crap. Going underground, the BBC learns an official report will say | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
there are billions of barrels of oil under England's southern green and | :00:45. | :00:55. | |
pleasant land. But will the Shires accept fracking. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
If intervention is so easy in Libya, why is one of the original backers | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
of the west's involvement in toppling Gadaffi, supporting another | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
uprising, we will ask him live from Paris. Super-size me, McDonalds | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
staff in America ask to super-size their wages. We ask is this the | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
start of something big? Good evening. 32 minutes ago the doors | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
closed, the ballot boxes were sealed, and now the race to count | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
the votes is under way. And although a majority of voters will have | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
chosen none of the above, by simply staying at home, the results of | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
these European and local elections are the biggest clues we will get | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
before the general election about which lucky individual will win the | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
right to occupy Number Ten from next year. | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
Governing parties, nearly always take a hammering half-term. If Ed | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
Miliband can't make gains, packing up and going home might look like an | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
option. It won't have escaped your notice that voters may have for the | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
first time ever put UKIP at the top of their list. The party the Prime | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
Minister once branded "fruitcakes, and loonies". We spent the day in | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Thanet in Kent, one you have UKIP's best bets. | :02:28. | :02:40. | |
Welcome to Ramsgate in east Kent. Even as it votes in European | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
elections, it feels a very long way from Brussels or Westminster. But | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
seeing the anger here towards the old political parties is crucial for | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
understanding changes in British politics. | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
A disillusionment that is, in part, because of an idea from political | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
science. An idea that's best understood by looking at how, well, | :03:01. | :03:08. | |
ice-cream vans work near beaches. So imagine a beach with three ice-cream | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
vans, each one third of the way along the beach. They would each get | :03:15. | :03:22. | |
a third of the custom. It would make sense for the two at the end to | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
drive to join the one in the middle, giving them a bigger market share | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
each. The similar things happen in politics. That might help explain | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
why lots of voters here feel that the old political parties are | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
neither distinctive nor attractive. And one party seems to be the main | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
beneficiary. I have been a member of UKIP for about a day to be fair. But | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
they really resonate with me, and I was very anti-politics before they | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
came along as well. So I had no interest in anything, because | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
everything was the same. Can I ask who you voted for? UKIP. Can I ask | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
why? They are the best ones. What is wrong with the other parties? Same | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
old crap. Do you mind if I ask who you used to vote for? Labour. -- Ten | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
people around the polling stations said UKIP. UKIP. I don't know what | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
they have got against everyone else. UKIP, tell the others to go and | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
stuff themselves! Not that the tide is entirely going UKIP's way. Green | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
Party. Can I ask why? Because the I wasn't giving UKIP my vote and I'm | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
fed up with the others and Green Party have a strong manifesto. We | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
did meet voters for other parties, but we didn't see any of their | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
activists. So keep an eye on Ramsgate. Nigel Farage might well | :04:55. | :04:55. | |
run for Westminster from Ramsgate. Nigel Farage might well | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
it is part of a fiercely fought European electoral region. If you | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
only follow one constituency during this election I would recommend the | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
south-east of England, not just because it is enormous, it stretches | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
from Kent all the way up to Oxford, but also because it is going to be | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
the scene of some serious political drama. Just how well has UKIP done | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
and just how bad are things going to be for the Liberal Democrats. | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
In this constituency back in 2009 the Tories won four seats. UKIP and | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
the Liberal Democrats picked up two each, the greens and Labour one | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
apiece. According to Newsnight analysis if things go well for the | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
Tories they will hold three of these seats only losing one to UKIP. The | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Lib Dems will shed one seat and Labour will pick one up. If UKIP do | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
better than expected you will see it here. They have around 30% chances | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
of taking another Tory seat. If that happens UKIP will be on track to win | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
the national vote share handsomely. That will overshadow Labour's | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
expected gains and Lib Dem losses too. Still, don't read too much into | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
today's election results. Past performance isn't always a good | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
indicator of future performance. Next year at the general election | :06:18. | :06:19. | |
the Lib Dems will have the benefit of some of their very small local | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
strongholds and UKIP may struggle to keep a hold of some of its newer | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
supporters. The same lesson applies to today's local elections too. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Politics is perhaps more complicated than ice-cream. We will have to wait | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
until Monday before the results of the European elections, but in less | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
than an hour the results of the local elections will start coming | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
in. And Emily our political editor will be watching them all from the | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
BBC election hair election lair, where she is now? What's happening? | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
After weeks of campaigning we where she is now? What's happening? | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
finally slowly get the results in of the 161 councils in England, about | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
finally slowly get the results in of 4,000 councillor, why are we looking | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
finally slowly get the results in of so closely? Because of the points | :07:12. | :07:12. | |
Chris was making. This is about direction of travel of all the | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
parties in the lead-up, less than a year away to the general election. | :07:17. | :07:17. | |
That is why there will be an year away to the general election. | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
amount of scrutiny over these kinds of results. I have pulled up now the | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
places that the Conservatives are defending end to, blue for the | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
Tories. They have Swindon at the top, a majority of one, what does it | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
mean, if you go inside it and look at the shape of it, they are in a | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
race against Labour, if they lose one councillor it goes into no | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
overall control. If Labour gain six councillors they will turn it red, a | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
feather in the cap for Ed Miliband. Croydon, a similar story, a | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
two-horse race, lots of demographic change in Croydon, more nonwhite | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
British families here, perhaps Labour can take advantage of that | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
and see that share of the vote coming through. Tamworth, quite an | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
interesting one, this is somewhere we will be looking out for, a lot of | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
parliamentary marginals in the west Midland, around Tamworth. What could | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
happen here, Labour is fighting hard to gain three seats to end ten years | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
of Tory rule. Those are the two main parties. Haven't mentioned the Lib | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Dems yet. Chris went into a lot of detail. You were in Kingston upon | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
Thames there yesterday lawyer ruchings the picture there is -- | :08:26. | :08:35. | |
Laura, the picture is different there, the Lib Dems up against the | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
Conservatives, Ed Davie may be worried his seat at parliamentary | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
level next year. With all the fuss about UKIP, why haven't you got a | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
giant purple button on the snazzy screen? There is no purple button | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
that is because simply UKIP to date haven't gained an entire council. It | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
was a point that Nigel Farage made to Jeremy on Monday, mathematically | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
it is very hard for them to do so, almost impossible to do so outside | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
London were they don't farewell. That doesn't mean they haven't been | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
doing extraordinarily well in these sorts of elections to date. I will | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
take you to Basildon in Essex, if we go inside there. This is somewhere | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
where UKIP had 30% of the vote. They turned that into some seats on the | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
coupity council. What will they do at Basildon council. We will look at | :09:28. | :09:37. | |
that. And last the also the kind of place cities in the north, the big | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
metropolitans, this is at the risk of sounding like Donald Rumsfeld, a | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
known unknown. They are trying to stand in places where we don't know | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
how well they will do and neither do they just yet. | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
Plenty of numbers and hopefully some more big clues about what it all | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
really means in the next 48 hours. Later in the programme we will | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
debate what might be behind the prominence of that party, who needs | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
a purple button? Before that the BBC has learned tonight that tomorrow | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
the British geological society will confirm just how much oil and gas is | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
waiting to be hydraulically fractured from under our feet. In | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
the Weld, an area that includes thousands of acres of manicured Tory | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
shires, in Sussex and Kent. It could be billions worth. But blasting it | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
out from under the rocks is less than straight forward. Not least | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
because it is hard to find that many people who want a hawed drawlic | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
drilling -- high draw drawlic drilling -- hydrolic drill as their | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
neighbour. In America it is very different, we have been to the | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
fracking fields of the US and the heart of southern England. | :10:58. | :11:07. | |
This is the Weld, a classic English landscape, you might not think of it | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
as oil country. But between the villages of Cudford and Wisborough | :11:13. | :11:25. | |
Green, there is a license to drill for exploratory oil in a local | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
field. Before they can do anything they still need planning permission | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
from West Sussex County Council. Right now the planning committee is | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
deliberating over the decision, what they are only too keenly aware of is | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
in Britain and particularly in parts of Britain like this, the opposition | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
to gas exploration is passionate and intense. | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
That's interesting, because in the US, where there is something like | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
two million hydraulically fractured sites the atmosphere is different. | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
Why is that? Last year I went to Louisiana in America's Deep South. | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
This whole region is sitting on top of the shale rock, it is the gas | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
from that shale that has made some of the farmers here millionaires | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
overnight. Or as they are referred to here "shalionaires". There it is, | :12:28. | :12:38. | |
it is $434,000. I don't think I have seen a figure as high as that? This | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
man has made his fortune by selling drilling rights on his farm? We see | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
something we want, we buy it. And he's not the only one, across the US | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
the financial rewards for landowners are substantial. And the oil | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
companies can pay for upgrades to local schools and roads. So the | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
community can benefit. But also the country itself is large and sparsely | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
populated, so the wells can disappear into the landscape. In | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
England it is rural but densely populated as a village. Some of the | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
local people have made their opposition to fracking clear. What | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
is your expectation of what you will be confronted with? We will have | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
four lorries an hour from the site into the village. It will disrupt | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
the whole of the village lane. The another, the traffic, the | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
disturbance to our wildlife and our environment. Would you put up with | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
that? I don't think you would. I was keen to know whether money might | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
make the difference? The guidelines are that a community gets 1% of | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
revenue plus ?100,000? What price can you put on way of life. We have | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
an idyllic village, so what price can you really put on that? We have | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
probably all lost ?100,000 on the value of our houses at a stroke, so | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
?100,000 to the village wouldn't even mend the road. I can imagine in | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
some communities that amount of cash might be attractive? These things | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
have a cost. If you are saying, you know, let's compensate against that, | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
that means that they have a problem, they know there is a problem and | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
they are going to try to buy you off. That is not the way we should | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
work, that is bribery almost. So quite a contrast with what I found | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
in America. Less than 20 miles down the road, there is a similar | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
campaign opposing the local search for oil and gas, but not everyone is | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
against it. I'm really interested to meet this one couple, the -- they | :14:56. | :15:04. | |
are the one couple that have agreed to give permission for exploration | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
on their land. They have agreed to speak to me. Carla was a parish | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
councillor and her husband's family lived here for 200 years. They own | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
170 acres of local land. You have done something surprising, you are a | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
landowner who has allowed a company to have the application to drill | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
underneath your land. Why did you do that? Because we thought there was | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
no problem from our point of view to use our land for exploration and | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
advancement. To find out what is there? To find out what is actually | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
there. Because nobody knows for sure. So it was in the national | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
interest to find it, because it is indigenous, it is here. We thought | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
it would be of benefit to the community. So I guess the criticism | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
that is often levelled at people like yourselves is you are in it for | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
the money? I wish. We would be off to the bah Hama, never mind | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
Australia if we were to have the money we were alleged to be get. It | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
is a pleasant income, it is more than the market rate for letting | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
agricultural land. So one of the things I find especially interesting | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
is that you are actually kind of a pillar of the community, you are a | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
central plank in the local parish community? No, were! Were! Before | :16:28. | :16:36. | |
this happened we were the sort of household people go they will help | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
us out. And we were always happy to. It has changed our lives forever. We | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
hardly ever go out. I get to go to the supermarket, or the garden | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
centre. Occasionally to the dentist. That's about it. I only spoke to | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
them for an hour or so but Robin and Carla seem very different to the | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
landowners I met in America, much more concerned about conservation | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
and wider energy issues than money. But the situation in this village | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
highlights another contrast between the UK and the US. Property law is | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
different. American landowners can negotiate big pay-offs because they | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
own what is beneath their land. That is not the case in the UK, where the | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
Crown owns the gas and oil. And there is a further issue, fracking | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
involves the neighbour's land too. The pipes snake out laterally away | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
from the drilling site, underground for perhaps two miles. Is that Lyle? | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
Ellen Stokes lectures in property law at Cardiff University. In a | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
prospective drilling site a mile-and-a-half that way, they could | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
come down and go laterally and end up underneath these people's | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
sub-surface property. Are they allowed to do that? That would | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
constitute an actionable trespass. We have a 2010 Supreme Court | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
decision on this. That involved a diagonal drilling beneath somebody | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
else's land for oil. In that case the court held that it did | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
constitute an actionable trespass and ?1,000 in damage was awarded. | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
Why so little? Because the landowner in that case hadn't suffered any | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
consequences or physical loss and his use of the land wasn't disturbed | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
or interfered with. Even without the multimillion dollar pay-offs in the | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
US, could the lower level of money available here still be an | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
incentive, particularly among the people of Fernhurst. We knocked on | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
50 doors, given the sensitivity of the situation, even only a few would | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
speak to us. I don't see why they have their backs up, I don't see | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
long-term effects. I can see both sides of the argument, I can | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
understand homeowners seeing how it can affect properties and just the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
general environment. A lot of the villagers have been saying about | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
traffic coming through and all of that kind of thing. But there is the | :19:14. | :19:21. | |
job prospects, maybe the revenue or whatever that it would bring in, so | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
I'm kind of on the fence about it. Why is fracking more accepted in the | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
US, it is less populated with big landowners and generous pay-offs, | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
and better rewards for the local communities. Where as Britain is a | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
land more densely populated, with different property laws, generating | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
lower financial incentives. And far from embracing fracking, a recent | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
poll conducted by YouGov suggests support in Britain is falling. You | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
get the feeling something big will have to change before fracking takes | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
off in the UK as it has in the States. | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
With us are Andrew Austin, the chief executive of IGas, one of the | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
companies who potentially hopes to make money out of fracking in this | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
country. And Caroline Lucas the Green MP is with us this evening. | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
Thank you, it looks like the Geological Survey will confirm there | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
is potentionally billions of barrels of oil under the south-east of | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
England. I know you haven't seen the details of the report, you must be | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
delighted, a lot of potential there? We have known this across the | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
country but particularly in terms of oil in the basin, the area that | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
stretches from Winchester across to Gatwick up to the M 25 and down to | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
the coast at Chichester. But there has been a lot of history of oil | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
exploration in this area. We as a company produce oil and gas from | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
around 20 sites across that area. Around 40 million barrels have been | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
recovered to date across that area. You are already using conventional | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
techniques to produce oil and gas in the south-east of England with | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
people apparently hardly even noticing. Caroline Lucas, that | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
doesn't sound so bad, what have you got to be afraid of? What no-one has | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
talked about is the impact on climate change, it seems to be | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
particularly perverse to be searching after yet more hard to | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
reach fossil fuels when experts are telling us we need to leave 80% of | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
known fossil fuels in the ground if we are to have any hope of | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
preventing two degrees warming. We had the reports recently on climate | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
change, saying the urge to shift energise is closer than ever. That | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
is the direction we should be going in. There is a lot of urgency that | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
millions of householders feel about getting their energy bills down. | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
Businesses want their power costs to come down, in the US fracking has | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
transformed that, gene plies prices falling through the floor. Lord | :22:08. | :22:16. | |
Stern has called it baseless economic, here in the UK if we frack | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
in the UK we don't use the gas or oil in the UK, it gets sold on | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
European markets at the going price. That is different from the States, | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
because it is a much bigger country and they are less locked into the | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
bigger world market they use their own gas and oil as they frack it. | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
Even the experts, even people in the forefront of the fracking ideology | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
are saying, actually, it is not going to lead to higher prices. So | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
if you want higher prices you need to go down the renewable route. What | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
is the point? Let's try to separate out the two different issues that | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
Caroline spoke about, she rightly spoke about both of them. Firstly in | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
terms of climate change, if we are using renewables from my where, or | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
oil and gas from anywhere we are better using it in a highly | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
regulated market close to the place of consumption. So the cost of | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
transporting oil and g in terms of the climate impact of doing that is | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
very, very considerable. Secondly into that mix, if you are going to | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
use any pots sill fuels you need to be using gas rather than coal goal | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
is the enme in this occasion -- enemy in this occasion. I agree gas | :23:32. | :23:41. | |
is better than coal but that is not the question we are confronting. The | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
coal doesn't stay in the ground it gets sold somewhere else and the | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
impact on climate is the same. We should be talking about the | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
difference between a greener energy future, based on renewable energise, | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
and energy efficiency, lots of jobs, lower fuel bills. It is right now | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
people's bills are very high, right now we have to confront the issues | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
and renewables only 4% in this country, don't we need the mix? Can | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
I answer that one, it feels such an ironically that exactly that time | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
when on shore wind is about to become more comparable with fossil | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
fuels in terms of cost, at exactly that time the Government is issuing | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
a moratorium on wind energy, because the main companies are terrified | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
that it will take their place. Isn't it true that for all the reasons | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
discussed in the film it is not going to happen here. People don't | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
want it? There are different issues into this mix. I completely agree | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
with Caroline in terms of the importance of climate change | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
targets. The two degree target is imperative. Prior to this I was | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
involved in the renewable industry, I ran a solar panel manufacturing | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
industry in the United States. A built solar farms. I completely | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
understand and embrace that agenda. If, however, into that mix, in the | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
same way as has happened in the United States. Gas has sur planted | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
coal. You will still need gas in the mix. If you are going to use gas at | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
all you are better using it domestically. In terms of the price | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
argument raised here. Two or he three shale gas sites across the | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
country will not bring down the price of gas for retail consumer. If | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
we have a material shale gas industry in this country, by which I | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
mean around 100 sites across the country, a fraction of the space | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
used for other particular land uses, including renewable energise, then | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
we will start to get to a point where we can have a downward effect | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
on prices. Until we have a material industry that won't happen. But the | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
climate change gains in the meantime are more important. If you have a | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
material industry based on shale you won't get your emissions down. We | :25:57. | :26:06. | |
are out of time on a complicated issue, we look | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
it turns out. It all seemed so easy, the west may | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
never have put boots on the ground, but our finger prints were all over | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
the overthrew of Colonel Gadaffi in 2011, David Cameron even joined his | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
political friend, Nicolas Sarkozy, to take the applause of Libyan | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
crowds. It was relatively quick, if not painless, but not a terrible war | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
that dragged on for years. Maybe not for the west. In the last week | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
around 80 people have been killed and one of Gadaffi's former generals | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
leading an armed uprising says he will fight not talk. After his | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
soldiers attacked the national parliament. The toppling of Muammar | :26:49. | :27:01. | |
Gaddafi was billed by backers as a new type of arm's length | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
intervention. Today I authorised the Armed Forces of the United States to | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
begin a limited military action in Libya. America and its allies acted | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
as the rebel air force, but no boots on the ground. But having empowered | :27:19. | :27:30. | |
the revolutionary brigades, the west is now watching as they tear the | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
country apart. Rival militias are lining up behind a general on one | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
side and on the lining up behind a general on one | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
Islamist-dominated parliament. On Sunday the general's supporters | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
tried to disperse parliament, the National Congress. Even now it is | :27:48. | :27:49. | |
scattered, but one National Congress. Even now it is | :27:50. | :27:58. | |
this evening told us what happened. TRANSLATION: At 6. 30, after the | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
parliament ended its session, and there were just a few of us in the | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
chamber, a big group of armed vehicles arrived, with automatic | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
weapons mounted on top. They started firing indiscriminately, nah a very | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
fast way, then they started breaking into the building and going into the | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
rooms inside. And they were looking for members of the Congress. 20 | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
civil servants and one member of the Congress were arrested. | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
When we filmed the first anniversary of the revolution, we watched a the | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
different rebel brigades take over the event. It was time to show off | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
the heavy weaponry and face down rival units. They had refused to | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
disband, and while attempts to form a regular army faltered, the | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
brigade's power actually grew. There is no political settlement yet in | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
Libya between the key tribes and other political forces, until there | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
is a political settlement. Until the transition makes real progress and | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
in two-and-a-half years it has made almost no progress. There isn't | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
really be an effort to build up the regular forces. Serious attempts at | :29:08. | :29:15. | |
demobilising Libya's militias were postponed until after new elections | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
in June 2012. Far from resolving the country's problems, that vote set | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
the scene for further conflict, between east and west, Islamists and | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
secularists. In October 2013 the Prime Minister was briefly kidnapped | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
by one of the armed groups. An ominous sign that gun law was taking | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
over. Militias in the east tried to seize oil exports from September | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
2013 on wards, refusing to recognise the Trippick Government. These same | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
-- Tripoli Government, these same groups back the general. He has | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
quickly built up power over the recent months. The head of the air | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
force was dismissed for providing support to Haftar in April. Very | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
quickly a lot of support has come from a number of quarters for him. | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
There are suspicions, he has been back from overseas. The Dubai-based | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
outlet has been extremely positive in reporting of him. We met the | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
general during the revolution and interviewed him in Gaza. He had | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
rumoured die Thais to the CIA, and during the war he was getting | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
British and French help. Are you receiving practical help whether | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
communications and weapons. We are still waiting. Now we have new | :30:41. | :30:50. | |
reports that he has a new master. TRANSLATION: We believe he's | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
supported by a number of Arab and non-Arab countries in many forms and | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
shapes. We believe they are being sent weapons and jamming devices, we | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
have intelligence that the equipment is reaching the forces in western | :31:04. | :31:14. | |
Libya. Western intervention might have disposed of Gadaffi, but all | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
sorts of forces, regional, tribunal and religious have filled the | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
vacuum. The question is will they destroy a country where westerners | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
still have major economic interests. One of France's most celebrated | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
philosophers, and the man credited in 2011 with persuading Sarkeesian | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
to -- Nicolas Sarkozy to recognise the rebel leaders which ultimately | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
led to the intervention. Do you think Libya is a better place now | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
that Colonel Gadaffi has been toppled. Since before then there was | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
chaos on the ground? I think it is a better place, yes, of course. I'm | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
not sure you can imagine how terrible and horrid was the | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
dictatorship of Gadaffi. It was one of the worst of the last 40, 50 | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
years. For sure it is, it was good to topple him. It was right to | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
topple him. It is true that it is not a valley of hundred, but who can | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
give lessons to the Libyan people? Surely not us French? You say it is | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
not of value of honey, but in fact 100 people have been killed since | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
last Friday. There are kidnappings, militia's roaming the place, there | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
have been three Prime Ministers since march and you are suggesting | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
supporting another uprising. Do you know how many people are killed in | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
Syria since three years because there was no intervention, because | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
we did let Bashar Al-Assad commit his bloodbath. This is the real | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
comparison. Of course that 80 people are dead yesterday, Thursday, it is | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
heart-breaking and 80 sons of Libya, a camp of 17th of February, who I | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
know so much killed, this is horrible. The real comparison is how | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
many in Syria because of the nonintervention. What would have | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
happened in Libya without intervention would probably have | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
been the same as what is happening today in Syria. | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
You are now as I understand it supporting the general, so are you | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
just going to keep supporting other uprisings until you get the kind of | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
Government you want? No, no, I don't support anybody, I support the | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
Libyan people. I think that the Libyan people, citizens of the | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
country, of Tripoli and other cities, paid such a high price for | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
their freedom, and for toppling the dictator, that today they deserve | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
peace. They deserve not to be killed, neither by the Islamists, | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
nor by the general. The Libyan people have paid the price, now he | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
deserves piece and freedom. That is what I think. Now what I think also | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
is that if you see the French Revolution, for example, it took | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
time and it took general Bonaparte to achieve finally democracy and | :34:41. | :34:49. | |
freedom. So this is the terrible and tragic course of nearly all | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
revolutions, this is what is happening in Libya and we Europeans | :34:53. | :34:59. | |
we have not the right to give them lessons of good behaviour. It is | :35:00. | :35:08. | |
never like this. You briefly did think you had the right to suggest | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
to your friend, Nicolas Sarkozy, that France and Britain should | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
intervene? I not only thought that France and Britain should intervene, | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
I thought that the intervention should and had to go till the | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
toppling of the dictator. Till the moments the Libyan people could be | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
responsible for its own destiny. Nobody can deprive a people from its | :35:36. | :35:43. | |
own destiny. All people of the world have the right to the side of their | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
future, to decide on their future. It takes time and takes a terrible | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
moment which the one that the Libyan people are facing. It is like this, | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
all over the world, and I would hope that the forces of reason and peace | :36:00. | :36:11. | |
would prevail in my dear Libya. McDonalds workers have probably | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
always wanted to super-size their wage that is come withic that | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
McJobs, it appears they have had enough of their meagre portions, at | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
the food chain's Annual General Meeting shareholders approved the | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
$9. 5 million pay packet. Outside at least 100 staff were arrested as | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
they gathered to demand better wages. Right now some staff are paid | :36:35. | :36:45. | |
not more than the cost of a big -- big Mac Meal per hour. For a second | :36:46. | :36:54. | |
day fast food workers in Chicago marched, these cleaners, cooks and | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
till staff had a simple message for their bosses over the road. | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
till staff had a simple message for McDonalds' employees in the US earn | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
as little as ?5 an hour, or $8. They want at least $15. Fuelling a | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
national debate about pay and equality, when many Americans are | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
struggling to make ends meet. In the hall opposite the McDonald's chief | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
executive had his $#. 5 million pay packet approved with barely a | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
whisker, 94% of shareholders voted with him. It is an outrage, I stood | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
with the fast food workers this morning, who understand they have to | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
keep pressing the organisation to respond to their demand. While they | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
confirm the pay right for the CEO, there has been no response | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
whatsoever to the fact that people are working harder and harder. This | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
corporation is earning record profits, it makes different | :37:57. | :38:04. | |
decisions around the globe. Mary Kay was one of a hundred arrested | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
yesterday at another march to was one of a hundred arrested | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
corporate headquarters. Since the recession has ended lower-wage jobs | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
have grown three-times faster than jobs that pay that $15 mark. | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
McDonald's won't reveal what it is paying the average employee other | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
than it meets minimum wage requirements. America's national | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
minimum wage is $7. 25 an hour, and has been since 2009. President Obama | :38:34. | :38:42. | |
wants to raise it to $10. 10, a move blocked from Congress, still a long | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
way for the dollar 15 an hour the workers are marching for. This is | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
not just a fast food phenomenon, last week all over this there were | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
protests about low pay and working conditions. Populist pushes for a | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
higher wage floor. Whether the US or Switzerland or Germany in its own | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
way, you are seeing mature economies, affluent societies where | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
a large swathe of working people have missed out you see on economic | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
growth before the crisis and have done badly since then. You are | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
thinking trade unions of looking for a way to be relevant to the whole | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
debate on pay and the minimum wage is what they are latching on to. | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
That is part of the reason you are seeing the upsurge in radicalism. | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
McDonald's insists it pay as competitive amount, giving | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
youngsters the chance to move up. Many on the right of the debate | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
claim a significant hike in the minimum wage will cost jobs. I have | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
a huge amount of people who want to raise the minimum wage, they have | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
the right idea what the problem is. The problem is low pay, the wrong | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
idea is the solution they have. Raising the minimum wage creating | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
unemployment and over the long-term reducing the rate on new jobs | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
created. I think unemployment is reducing the rate on new jobs | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
worst evil here. For workers surviving on $8 an hour it might not | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
mean much. Protestors in the US have made headlines this week, whether | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
the executives and politicians are really listening is another matter. | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
Whatever the exact results of the local and European elections held | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
today, one thing is for certain, UKIP has dominated the lead-up to | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
voting. What is less certain is why. Why does the apparent pop all right | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
of the party, what does it say about modern Britain and the issues that | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
matter to the Great British public. I'm joined by the author Bonnie | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
Greer, the chief political commentator in the Telegraph and | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
Independent columnist. Why do you think this has happened this time | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
round? It says something very profound about our politics. For the | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
last ten years we have had all these ernest groups, Helena Kennedy and | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
others saying why are the British people apathetic about politics. | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
Actually the answer has been, which is beyond all these grand and the | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
good is that she and the politicians are apathetic about the British | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
people. They have tried to deny politicalies course to the British | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
people, we have been in a post democratic political environment. If | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
you go back 20 years any discussion of public spending suggesting it | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
might fall or will stay the same was treated by the BBC which has been | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
one of the greatest criminals in all of this as some form of crime | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
against humanity. If you try to discuss immigration, which you | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
weren't allowed to do on the BBC, that would be regarded, I'm sorry it | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
has been acknowledged even by your boss. They are shaking their heads. | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
Any discussion about immigration was treated as a form of racism. Any | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
discussion about Europe was treated as a form of zenophobia, in other | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
words public debate was there. At the same time there was a conspiracy | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
between the three main parties to deprive access to democracy, to the | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
vast majority of voters. The point there I believe Pete certificate | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
trying to make. Thank you for telling what I'm saying. There is | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
something wrong with people not being interested in them and the | :42:37. | :42:38. | |
elite rather than the other way around? This has gone far enough, | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
this has been the Tory of the elections and will continue -- the | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
story of the elections and will continue to be next year. I think | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
there are too many people in this country who got the idea that all | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
their own personal obsessions and I'm not talking about the truly | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
dispossessed, the people truly suffering in all the restructuring | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
that has happened. I'm talking about people who think if I can't get my | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
way, all politicians are crap. I mean am I allowed to say that. You | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
just said it let's not worry about it? Apologies, this idea that | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
democracy has to sustain all my prejudices and what each of us wants | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
is the problem. Has that changed Bonnie, this is a different swathe | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
and level of support for this kind of party this time round, it is new | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
isn't it? It is the UK's tea party moment, the United States got it in | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
2007. As a result, and Peter is right to a tiny extent, of a kind of | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
consensus. That's in the media, that's in the political class, and | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
so you have this other group that gets born in the shadows, and all it | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
needs is a kick-start and this has happened here. This is the United | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
Kingdom's tea heart. And it has all the -- tea party. It has all the | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
hallmarks of it. What is wrong with that? There is nothing wrong. It as | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
movement, it is not a political party. This party is a flag of | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
convience for a lot of people who are deeply ditties gruntled about | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
probe -- deeply disgruntled about progress. It is true going back to | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
what was said about the BBC. Let's not talk too much about the BBC? My | :44:25. | :44:36. | |
point is that the politics has become home midgeised, and within | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
that are various groups on the right and far right taking advantage. I | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
would like to go back to Peter first? I think something horrible | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
happened to British politics, Labour, Liberal Democrats and the | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
Tories were captured by the modernising movement, which met a | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
group of experts, this man Axel Rod, worshipped by my colleagues in the | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
lobby is an example. They don't come from activists, they are experts. | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
What they decided was that 95% of British voters didn't matter. If you | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
voted in a safe seat, if you were a Glasgow ship worker who was out of a | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
job in Glasgow that was a safe Labour seat. Excuse me if you were a | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
Lieutenant Colonel in Tonbrige wells you didn't cut it. If you were a | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
swing voters in a marginal seat constructed around you. Politicians | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
have always been there? This has always been there. That is the | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
revolt. Of the 95%. I do not recognise the country the politics | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
that Peter is decribing, I think what changed was the Internet, the | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
idea that we could complain about and feel dissatisfied about almost | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
everything. Now, I think we do have an enviable democracy, and you know, | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
I hate it that the entire political system is being dumbed down by | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
people like him and creating this mess. To end this, we are in a new | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
age, they are an age of technology, we are moving faster than our | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
political establishment, faster than the journalist, and they, who | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
actually are the ones who have consolidated politics, need to wake | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
up to what people are saying on the left, right and centre, and people | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
who have no political point at all. It is moving faster than they | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
understand. Perhaps none of us can understand what is happening in the | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
country Except he's wrong! That's enough. You can follow all the | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
election excitement throughout much of the night on BBC One and the BBC | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
News channel. While it might not translate into high turnout, these | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
campaigns certainly have not been dull this time round we can safely | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
say that. One event didn't quite work out as planned. That was UKIP's | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
attempt at a corn carnival in Croydon. It was to demonstrate the | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
multicultural credential, but the steel band decided to pick up their | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
instruments when they found out who asked them to play. We thought it | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
was such a shame to get politics in the way of music, here on the | :47:17. | :47:26. | |
results day eve here they are, the endurance steel orchestra with their | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
version of Daft Punk Get lucky. Good evening, it was going to be | :47:30. | :47:42. | |
Wales and more western parts of England that get the heaviest of the | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
rain tomorrow morning. Further north I | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
Northern Ireland in the afternoon might struggle to get into double | :47:55. | :48:07. | |
Northern Ireland in the afternoon figures where... . (steel band) | :48:08. | :48:08. |