Browse content similar to 02/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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rerun in the light of allegations of corruption. This was the moment when | :00:25. | :00:33. | |
the king of Spain proved the value of a monarchy, as he decides to call | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
it a day, how much of Spain's transition to democracy can he take | :00:40. | :00:48. | |
credit for. It has been gone so long it is difficult to go-to-come back. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
It is like a diver going deep on the dive and has to stage back up | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
through ompression. The parents of the freed American soldier, Bowe | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
Bergdahl, has yet to talk to their son. How does a person return to the | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
world after five years incarceration at gun point. A | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
world after five years incarceration five years by FARC guerrillas is | :01:16. | :01:16. | |
here. Kirsty Allsop is here five years by FARC guerrillas is | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
defend the idea that better to get their breeding done | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
early. Well the | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
early. will be held in Qatar, at least that | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
is how it is tonight, but will be held in Qatar, at least that | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
of yesterday's revelations by the Sunday Times that the extraordinary | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
decision to hold the contest in place where summer temperatures are | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
high enough to fry an egg on a crossbar, that decision may have had | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
something to do with money being splashed about, have cast the whole | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
thing into doubt. Any decision about whether to have a re-think will have | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
to wait for a proper inquiry. But there is a very bad | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
to wait for a proper inquiry. But The golden prize, not winning the | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
tournament, but the chance to host it. | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
Can I ask you one quick question? : The tiny Arab country Qatar does not | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
want to discuss it. We haven't an official response, that's why? | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
Minister? A torrent of claims alleges they paid millions to | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
football officials to buy the bid. Now an investigation is | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
football officials to buy the bid. that could, the Prime Minister | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
hinted, result in the vote being rerun. That could lead to England | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
having another chance to host the tournament, because its failed bid | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
for 2018 was part of the same messy process. I will never forget the | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
meetings we wept to the lobbying we did, it was like no other election I | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
have been involved in, because every single person we met, whether the | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
head of the FA, in this part of the world or that part of the world, | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
they all said, yes of course we're going to vote for England to host | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
the World Cup. And then they voted completely the other way and we | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
ended up with one vote, but any way we will see what happens with this | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
inquiry into the World Cup. Who knows what the chances may be for | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
the future. The allegations claim that the former FIFA official, was | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
lobbying on his country's behalf more than a year before the decision | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
was made. And that he made payments into bank accounts controlled by the | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
Presidents of 30 African Football Associations and a former Vice | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
President of FIFA. The claims have been denied, and FIFA's own | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
investigator, American lawyer, Michael Garcia, has promised his | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
report into the affair will be complete next week. I don't think | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
there is any choice for FIFA other than if it is going to restore its | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
credibility it has to do so by reholding that bidding process, but | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
also there has to be questions about the governance of the game by FIFA | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
and whether Mr Blatter is a fit and proper person to continue to oversee | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
that process. It has to be completely independent of those | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
people who have been involved before. A senior source at FIFA told | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
me the allegations are horrific, but that Bin Hamam was trying to run a | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
campaign to replace Sepp Blatter at the same time. Was he trying to | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
improve his own prospects not the Qatar bid. Another industry insider | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
said without question if the FIFA investigation shows direct evidence | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
of rigging the process, there will have to be another vote. FIFA's | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
investigator isn't just looking at the behaviour of the Qataries, they | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
have also been here, talking to those who promoted England's | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
ultimately doomed bid for 2018. But whether or not they do provide | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
enough direct evidence that Qatar's World Cup was bought and sold, | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
reopening the bidding process would not be straight forward. FIFA will | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
do everything they can to resist it, because one of the consequences of a | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
rebuilding is that a potential breakaway from FIFA, a potential | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
disintegration if the disaffected parties, particularly Qatar and | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
perhaps African federations implicated might decide they don't | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
want to participate any more. If the sense of objections swell, Qatar may | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
never complete its swanky stadiums, if not... What would it say about | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
the state of the game if the tournament in Qatar goes ahead? | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
Dead. Dead? Dead as a viable and honourable and esteemable sport at | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
international level. It has to be changed now. This mess begs a wider | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
question too, how can the contest to host international sporting events, | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
with billions of bounds worth of prestige ever be genuine. If some | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
countries are prepared to flout the rules. One source familiar with the | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
process said to me, if you are running against a country that is | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
not democratic, there is no point. They can do whatever they want. They | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
are, unaccountable. The England team now must concentrate on the game as | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
they prepare for Brazil. But FIFA has much more than the next few | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
weeks of football to concern them. We have a former member of FIFA's | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
independent governance committee, which was set up to make the | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
organisation more transparent, she resigned last year after FIFA failed | :06:31. | :06:39. | |
to adopt many of her proposelias. How significant do you proposals. | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
How significant do you -- proposals. How significant are these | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
allegations? I think there is a lot of suspicion about the process and | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
the Qatar decision ultimately. This level of documentation and evidence, | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
if shown to be authentic, is stunning. We don't know and it is | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
yesterday to be established whether there is any connection between what | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
seems to have been done and what the Government of Qatar wanted? We have | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
to accept that don't we? Sure, that's true and an important step in | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
all of this, but a bribe is transactional, it is between two | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
different parties. Regardless of who Bin Hamam was working for, if all of | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
these allegations are turning out to be true someone was on the other | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
side of it. Those people are senior in the FIFA establishment. You know | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
this organisation, why is it so ghastly? It is a surprising | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
organisation in many ways, but when you have an enormous and wealthy | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
nonprofit like this, you don't have the shareholders to keep it honest | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
as you would in a completion. -- corporation. You can have governance | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
and we didn't have much Luke from that, or governance by the host, | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
Switzerland is not showing much on there. And the sponsors have seemed | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
pretty indifferent to the issues. So the Swiss should be keeping an eye | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
on FIFA should they? Well they are the host country and organisations | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
within Switzerland are governed by Swiss law. Absolutely. That would be | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
the obvious choice. How could it be changed then? Well, again, if the | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
Swiss Government weighs in and starts paying more attention to the | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
Swiss law as it applies to its own nonprofit -- non--profits, or if | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
there is a ground well that reaches out to the sponsors I think we could | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
see change there. I don't think we should wait for FIFA to reform | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
itself. You didn't wait, you voted with your feet, you resigned, why? I | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
did. It was not a very fruitful undertaking I have to say. I was | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
very enthusiastic at the outset, I thought it was a process that was | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
both intriguing and very welcome by FIFA. Very few organisations set out | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
to establish a group like our's and then reject their recommendations. | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
And although some of the recommendations were ultimately | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
accepted, many were rejected. It just wasn't a good use of time in | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
the end. There are organisations that are inseer in their reform | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
efforts. So let's be clear about this, FIFA set you up as an | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
organisation to keep them honest, and when they didn't like some of | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
the things you said, you had to quit? Well, it was a surprising | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
conclusion to the process for me as well. We drafted a large number of | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
recommendation, many of them very ordinary good governance | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
recommendations and many were rejected outright. They cherrypicked | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
through and took several, but most were rejected. As far as the Qatar, | :09:54. | :10:02. | |
World Cup, 2022 bid is concerned now, what ought to happen? What | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
ought to happen and what will happen are probably different things. What | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
ought to happen is to restore international confidence in the | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
process, I do think they need to re-run the vote. I don't think there | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
is any avoiding that now if the ultimate goal is the confidence of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
the public. We have a series of scandals, and I'm just not sure how | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
much longer the stakeholders are expected to accept scandal after | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
scandal. It needs to come to an end. Whether that will happen is another | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
question. Thank you very much for joining us. | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
Laura is here, our chief correspondent. You have got some | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
more news what can we expect to happen next? As was said this is | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
dreadful for FIFA, but it is not the first time there have been | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
allegations of what happened in Qatar. This incredible tumble of | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
information out there now is capping off allegations of corruption that | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
have already been made. And huge concerns about workers building the | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
stadiums in Qatar and what is going on with that. But it appears it | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
would be very risky financially and hugely inconvenient to unpick the | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
mess. We have been talking to sources at some of the European | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
clubs. Clubs have huge power in football, it is not just about the | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
international organisations. It has been suggested to us something | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
rather different that some inside FIFA may look for a way of wriggling | :11:25. | :11:33. | |
out of the Qatar mess. There is the physical problem of holding the | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
tournament in temperatures of over 40 degrees, for players and fans to | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
be fainting in the heat. The clubs are adamant that the tournament | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
cannot be moved to the winter, that not financially viable to them and | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
it would bust up the business model of the Premiership here and cause | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
problems in the other countries. Holding it in the summer would be a | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
farce, because of that there is a growing sense that while these kinds | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
of allegations in the short-term are very painful, in the long-term this | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
could start to look like a way of FIFA actually digging themselves out | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
of the hole that this whole bid mess created. | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
The king of Spain has decided to hang up his crown, the man chosen as | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
Head of State by the departing fascist ruler, General Franco, has | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
suffered ill-health and scandal and has had enough. Voluntary abdication | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
because you are getting on would have been unthinkable for centuries, | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
and not least because people drop dead a lot earlier than they do | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
nowadays. It has happened recently in Belgium, Holland and now Spain, | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
raising among some a question of whether Elizabeth the English Queen | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
and the gold standard in British monkeys Monarchies might resign. | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
What has been the reaction to this news. | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
It is a big moment, as can you imagine, this is a royal house that | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
has experienced plenty of abdications, five previous ones, as | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
you just said this is a time of abdications. The third in the space | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
of 14 months in Europe. Little couldn'ter then that thousands did | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
take to the streets this evening demanding a vote on the future of | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
the monarchy itself, a Republican demonstration calling for the | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
scrapping of the institution. But that said, although some polls | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
recently had shown something like 80% of Spanish saying that King Juan | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
Carlos should step down, the institution of monarchy remains | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
subject to majority support here. Most people want it to continue. | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
There could be many reasons for that, not least the fact that it is | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
felt to have played a transformative function during his regin, which has | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
now lasted nearly four decades. Almost everywhere history has | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
relegated royals to the role of decorative players. As the old | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
dictator General Franco faded away he gave the House of Burbon one last | :14:14. | :14:31. | |
chance to captain the state. Juan Carlos became the custodian of | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
Spain's transition back to democracy. And it was a fleeting | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
role, because once parliamentary institutions were restored, his | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
powers were soon clipped. But it wasn't a free ride. ??FORCEDWHI A | :14:43. | :14:52. | |
Colonel tried to mount a coup. And against this blatant adventurism as | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
well as a host of other challenges, the king stood fast. I wasn't afraid | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
for Spain because I knew what the whole majority of the Armed Forces | :15:06. | :15:07. | |
and the people in general wanted, and really needed for me to do that | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
night. Having served his purpose Juan Carlos settled back into the | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
more usual royal routine, attending royal weddings, visiting the sick, | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
and presiding over state occasions. His popularity held out for many | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
years, people even forgave the reported affairs. But it was | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
austerity that did for him. I think he is tired, psychologically, he has | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
been trying to improve his image, and he hasn't succeeded, he has just | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
given up. As simple as that. There aren't many leaders for whom an | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
elephant in the room becomes their literal nemesis. But photos of Juan | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
Carlos hunting big game may have given the death wound to his regin. | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
Not only had he been he will telling reporters how he felt the pain of | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
Spain's unemployed, but he has also championed wildlife conservation. So | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
a regin that began in 1975, which such constitutional and political | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
importance, ends in a series of tabloid scandals. Spain faces all | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
manner of crises now, not least getting the procedure right for his | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
son to take over. Today Juan Carlos told his nation | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
that he would hand power to his son, who the House trusts will find it | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
easier to play the part of austerity Monarch. TRANSLATION: Today a new | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
generation must lead, younger people with more energy, determined to push | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
through with the reforms we need and face our future challenges. I have | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
only ever wanted to contribute to the welfare of ordinary Spaniards, I | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
want the best for this country. He's a man in his mid-40s, fresh, | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
untainted by the scandals affecting his family. But at the same time | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
he's someone that is not that well known, he hasn't been under the | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
spotlight that often. Let's say he has the potential to become very | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
popular, but in a way it is still an enigma. The worst of all for him is | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
he will face the country at a moment of huge crisis of different sorts, | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
economic, political, constitutional and well it is a challenge that is | :17:25. | :17:34. | |
really difficult. While Juan Carlos was unpopular here there is no | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
overwhelming desire of public, the House of Bush Bonn -- Burbon might | :17:41. | :17:50. | |
just get a chance of ention and a new king. | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
Paul Preston is with us, you wrote a book back Juan Carlos didn't you? I | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
did. The text on the subject? So he says! How important a figure do you | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
think history will judge him to be? Fantastic. I mean there really | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
aren't words to describe in retrospect how he will be seen. I | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
don't want to say he made democracy. The pressure came from the Spanish | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
people. But what he did in terms of neutralising the army in the course | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
of 1976 to make it possible for there to be the transactions and the | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
negotiations that brought about what is actually quite a limited | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
transition in the first instance. That was immensely courageous, and | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
then after the first elections in 1977, over the next four years he | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
acted as fireman of democracy. And until, which we have just seen, the | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
defeat of the coup in 1981, he was absolutely the key plan. I think it | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
is fair to say without him there would have very likely been | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
bloodshed. Despite the errors, and the ending of a glorious regin, I | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
think history will treat him very benevolently. You look at the | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
pictures of protest against him in Spain, and clearly a lot of people | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
have forgotten that? There is a couple of issues here, first of all | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
there is a generational thing. A lot of people who were born, | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
35-year-olds were born when he was already king, and if you look at the | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
polls, the support amongst people who are 35 and below for the | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
monarchy is around about the 40% more, as against the 65% mark more | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
generally. We need to remember that five years ago it was in the 80s. So | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
there has been a fall. The problem is that the king as the pinnacle of | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
the political system, in the first instance was, if you like, splashed | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
by the mud that was going on because of the massive discontent as a | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
result of the economic crisis. It then hit him personally the biggest | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
thing behind the demos, not directly against the king or monarchy, they | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
are against the political system. But the political system is riddled | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
with corruption, right from municiple level to the top. And the | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
king was associated with it. Once it hit his family personally, once | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
investigations started into his son-in-law then that hit him. That | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
since, combined with a general weariness on his part, and of course | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
the issue you about the German Princess, about the elephant hunting | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
and so on and so forth. That is personal? It is personal but in | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Spain it is very odd. There was a point in Mark's report where he | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
referred that he managed to get over the fact of many affairs. The | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
Spaniards are worse than the French in this regard, or better, it | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
depends the way you look at it. They don't give a damn about the sexual | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
life of their male leaders. But the sense that money was being wasted or | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
money changing hands in a corrupt manner, which has to be proved but | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
the generalised feeling that was the case has caused part of the problem. | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
Can we reappraise Franco for the fact that he chose this man, | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
cleverly by your account in the transition to democracy, Franco | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
chose him for the job? Absolutely not. He chose him and trained them. | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
Effectively Juan Carlos was kidnapped age 10 and taken to Spain | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
to be trained in FAUNGS. In the meanwhile Franco played with various | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
royal candidates and he chose Juan Carlos to humiliate the legitimate | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
king who was his father. That was the first dirty trick he did. The | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
second thing is Franco trained Juan Carlos in order to maintain the | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
dictatorship. What is truly remarkable and courageous about him | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
is he betrayed Franco and the old system. Technically he didn't. There | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
was an immensely clever arrangement whereby very, very clever | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
constitutional lawyers, if you like, worked out ways to wriggle through | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
Franco's constitutional arrangement, that there by made it possible for | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
him to seem to fulfil the oaths he had taken. He did absolutely what | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
Franco did not want him to do. His family seems delighted, presumably | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
he is too, but the circumstances under which US army Sergeant Bowe | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
Bergdahl came to be freed after five years in Taliban captivity have set | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
off a furious spat. They demonstrate unambiguously about how all that | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
talk about the United States not negotiating with hostage takers is | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
so much hot air, it does and it did. In exchange of five of what the US | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
claim to be the most dangerous men in the world have been freed. In | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
addition to that there is the small matter of how Sergeant Bergdahl came | :23:05. | :23:14. | |
to be captured in the first place. Release me, please, I'm begging you, | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
bring me home. For five years a steady drip of Taliban videos | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
provided the link to America's only prisoner of war. Please. Bring me | :23:24. | :23:33. | |
home. Five years of moral dilemma between two American promises, | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
"leave no man behind" and "we don't negotiate with terrorists". The | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
military motto won, Bowe Bergdahl is coming home. But while there is | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
celebrations in his home town were the yellow ribbons were tied | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
awaiting his return and where the balloons now fly, that difficult | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
choice has consequences. An emotional reunion in Qatar between | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
the Taliban and their five senior commanders, held for more than ten | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
years in Guantanamo Bay. Their release described as a big victory | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
by the Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Omar in a rare public statement. And | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
so the battle moves to America. And for control of the political | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
narrative. A President, flanked by two | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
delighted parents. Sergeant Sergi has missed birthdays and holidays | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
and a simple moment with family and friends which all of us take for | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
granted, but while Bowe was gone, he was never forgotten. With these | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
prisoners of war exchanged as Afghan operations wind down, or as | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
President Obama's opponents believe, was it a deal done with terrorists | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
in a global war on terror, that America is still fight. We are all | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
grateful he is returned. There are legitimate questions about these | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
individuals who are being released and the conditions under way they | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
will be released. These are the hardest of the hardcore. These are | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
the highest high-risk people. And others that we have released have | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
gone back into the fight. That has been documented. There is | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
uncertainty about how Bowe Bergdahl was captured. It has some here | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
asking if he was a hero or deserter. And whether America should have paid | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
such a high price for his return. I was behind a patrol, I was lagging | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
behind the patrol and I was captured. But colleagues say there | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
was no patrol, that he left the base of his own accord, leaving his | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
helmet and body armour behind. The last e-mail to his parents before | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
his disappearance indicated his state of mind. "These people need | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
help... " It is this controversy, personal and | :25:51. | :26:11. | |
political that Bowe Bergdahl will return to once he's well enough. His | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
parents fought for his freedom and will now have to help him readjust | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
to it. You are free, freedom is yours. I will see you soon my | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
beloved son, I love you. He has been gone so long that it will be very | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
difficult to come back. It is like a diver going deep on a dive and has | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
to stage back up through recompression, to get the nitrogen | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
bubbles out of the system. If he comes up too fast it could kill him. | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
Last month his father Bob spoke to the Guardian, recording on video the | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
pain of waiting for a son to come home. I wake up each morning and my | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
first thought is my son is still a prisoner of war in Afghanistan. This | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
is where Bowe grew up, learned to hunt. This winter camp was built in | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
case he was released. We set this up for him, hoping he would get home | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
this winter, maybe he will need a place to stay. And kind of recover. | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
His father has let his beard grow, has learned some Pashtu, campaigned | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
relentlessly for his release and given some insight into why his son | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
joined the military. I know it was Bow, he's motivation to help these | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
people, it is how the war is shaped in the mind of a lot of Americans. | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
Is that we are there as some kind of peace corp with guns. That is just | :27:44. | :27:54. | |
an impossible mission. It is a mission we are not very good at I | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
believe. The last decade proves that. There is excitement and | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
anticipation about his home coming, they care little here about talks | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
with the Taliban, US-Afghan relations and the political cost to | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
President Obama or America, just the son that's coming home. We have the | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
light up there that we turned on when Bowe was first captured, we | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
have it had on ever since, we are going to let him turn that off. | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
We're joined now by a woman held captive by the Colombian FARC | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
movement for six years. What will he be feeling this released young man? | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
I think he's probably of course filled with joy. But also with fear. | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
He must be fearing to come back to a world that he doesn't know any more. | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
Feeling that he doesn't belong any more. Because he has become so | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
accustomed to the narrow confines of the world that he has been living | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
in? No it is because the problem of the time. Five years makes you, he | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
knows that he has missed many of the things that had happened in his | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
family. That probably the people he knew are not the same, or probably | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
some have died. That the world's going to come back to is not the | :29:19. | :29:28. | |
same t has changed. And also because he will have to try to find another | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
way of living. How is he likely to have been changed by the experience? | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
In many, many ways probably the first thing he will notice is that | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
the relationship he has with his family, which will be like the | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
standard, where he will want to come back to, will have changed because | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
he will have probably difficulties to trust. One of the problems when | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
you are abducted is you are confronted on a daily basis that | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
with people who are lying to you. So it becomes to you like normal or | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
natural just to always be very sceptical and always you know have | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
this trust problem. I suppose that he will have also to bear the fact | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
that his own suffering will be put in balance with the suffering of his | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
family and that's something that is always traumatic N a way there is | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
this kind of discussion of who suffered the most. If you were going | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
to give advice, if you were asked, I know you wouldn't give it otherwise, | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
but if you were asked to give advice to him or his family what would it | :30:42. | :30:53. | |
be? I think the key is love, you know. It is very difficult, in those | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
situations everything is so fragile and I think that if the intention is | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
love then things get slowly into place. Is it possible there might | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
even be things that he would miss from his captivity? Not at the first | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
moment, I would say, that in the first years he will just be so happy | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
to be out of there. But afterwards, he might be like thinking over on | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
what he lived and bringing back things that became important for him | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
and it will give him another perspective. Not that he won't want | :31:34. | :31:42. | |
to go back, but in a way that he will evaluate or assess for example | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
the ability to be alone, to reflect on things and to meditate. After | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
all, and your horrible experience being held captive for all those | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
years you say you thank God for it? Yes. Why? Because I think that in my | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
case it was an opportunity to grow. In many ways to mature. But those | :32:10. | :32:19. | |
grow spiritually, to try to understand myself i think I | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
discovered myself in the jungle with the good and bad things that I | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
wanted to change. Thank you very much, thank you. What do we tell our | :32:27. | :32:36. | |
daughters, our friends about how to live their lives. The editor of | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
Cosmopolitan magazine allegedly claimed that women could have | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
careers, everything and orgasams. But a female reader has discovered, | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
one after another, that the one thing you can have, is advice in | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
abundance. Now comes along is Her Poshness Kirsty Allsop says they | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
need to get it in the right order, have your children while you can | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
rather than when your career will allow | :33:09. | :33:10. | |
rather than when your career will Apart from the dangers of male | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
colleagues that remain, this scene is not quite as routine as it once | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
was. Family life came first, to such distractions as university for young | :33:24. | :33:24. | |
women. Since distractions as university for young | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
changed dramatically. Women are now more likely than men to go to | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
university. And that is reflected in the age women are choosing to have | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
children. From 23 in the late 1960s to nearly 30 now. Women may be | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
having it all, but probably not all at the same time. Property expert | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
and presenter Kirsty Allsop says women need to prioritise. The period | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
of time we can get married and children, but as a woman your | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
fertility drops off the cliff aged 35. Today the self-described | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
feminist went further talking to the Telegraph, she says the advice she | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
would give to her own hypothetical daughter was let's get you in flat, | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
find you a nice boyfriend and you can have a baby by the time you are | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
27. There was an eruption. What was so wrong with the advice about women | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
choosing their own vocation, vocation, vocation. We are ajoined | :34:30. | :34:37. | |
by Kirsty and Holly the editor of Vagenda magazine. What do you make | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
of the advice? I find it slightly depressing. What is sad about it is | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
that you say you know you have this hypothetical daughter, growing up in | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
a society that makes it difficult to be a mother viae a career and do | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
university and things so, I would ask her to change her life around, | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
and what I find depressing about that is I really want society to | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
change. I want us to campaign for things like paternity leave to be | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
extended, and for flexible working hours. I don't want women's lives to | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
have to change. There is one thing Holly that is really difficult in | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
all of this. I want exactly what you want, all of those things, but | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
nature is not with you and I. Nature is not a feminist. This one factor | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
about the fertility window is the only thing that I was addressing and | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
discussing. Go to university, have a career, do what makes you happy, | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
travel, write, do whatever you want, but be aware of the fertility window | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
and make your choices in an informed way. And this fertility window has | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
been a taboo topic, people have not discussed it. And that's the issue, | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
we can't change it. That issen unarguable fact, fertility does go | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
over a cliff as you put it by the time, from about mid-30s on wards? | :35:56. | :36:06. | |
If you have a fertility problem you don't know about it and you hit 35 | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
and go into forms of treatment that is very difficult. That is a | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
biological fact? It is also that two people make a baby and why should be | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
a woman considering. Because only the woman is affected by the | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
fertility problem? Why shouldn't the man leave university as well. Holly | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
is quite right, that is what I said in the article, that is why today | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
has particularly enraged me, I have been condemned for saying it, people | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
haven't read the whole interview. I have! In the interview I said if I | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
had a son of 26 in a loving relationship with someone, I would | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
say to him, address the topic of what you both want for your future. | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
It is important that men understand about the fertility window just the | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
same as women. Because it impacts them. They want to be parents. And | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
if they don't want to be parents they need to say, sorry, that is not | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
what I want right now, this isn't for me. We need to be more honest, | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
as women to each other and as parents to our children. Because the | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
heartache of interfillity, we have all seen it, we -- infertility, we | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
have all friends who have failed to understand this window because women | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
haven't been honest with other women because we have lots of things we | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
still have to achieve and there is lots of things that women still | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
struggle to get on equal terms. So this topic has been taboo. You must | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
have come across women who have struggled with this? Personally what | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
I come across more often with the Vagenda is people telling me they | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
are constantly reminded in the media about their fertility, about their | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
biological clock ticking, about how they should choose between a career | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
and a child and how that should be mutually exclusive. To me, I know | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
this isn't something you are opposed to. It is not mutually exclusive, | :37:57. | :38:08. | |
but it is a biological argument? I do think the clock is ticking but I | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
don't see how it changes into you changing your life. Especially not | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
only for a woman, or a daughter. If I had a daughter I would say to her | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
think about it, it is her personal biological clock, it is her personal | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
fertility, she needs to discuss it with her partner obviously. We have | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
to reatraining our lives because we live so much longer, you know. | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
Nature has in one sense been beaten by us, we have added 20 years to our | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
life span in the last 100 years and yet we haven't been able to alter, | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
in any way, that fertility women, because women are born with their | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
eggs, they are desperate to get out from the age of 14, by the time you | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
are 35 they have been trying to get out for 20 years? Definitely, but | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
there is so much pressure by the media women are so aware of it, and | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
they are hold to be hypera-- told to be hyperaware of it. There is this | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
structural problem with women not being able to have babies and | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
careers. The real priority is to make sure that we have those things | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
in place that they can. We shouldn't be telling women only to be | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
responsible. I know this isn't exactly what you said as well. But | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
women only to be responsible. Did you reorganise your life? I was very | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
lucky Jeremy, because I was desperate for children from a very | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
early age and nobody was interested. Absolutely not. When I met my | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
partner was 32 and he knew that I wanted children and we had them | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
sooner than would have been ideal. So it worked out for you? Only just. | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
But it did work out? It did, but I was lucky. The thing I'm really | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
adamant about, make your choices, don't let, as Holly said, don't let | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
society dictate, but make your choices in an informed way. If we | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
say to women it is OK, it is OK, wait, waiting wait we are denying | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
those women who want children, and there are many who don't, and that | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
is a very important issue, this is not for everyone. But those who know | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
at an early stage they want children, they need to look at all | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
the choices available and say should I reorder the choices in order to | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
reflect that the only window closing is my fertility window, my education | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
and career window is not closing. Including the men they are with? | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
Yes, of course. There are reckoned to be thousands of young people in | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
gangs in London, when I say young I mean the average age of being a | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
member of one of these gangs on first conviction is 15. Today law | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
enforcement officials from both sides of the Atlantic met to pool | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
ideas about how to combat the lure of gang life and how to limit its | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
damage. Older guys told us how to do things, how to beef, how to make | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
money. Don't leave your boy, don't run, don't snitch, don't get caught. | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
JT Jumps Off, the story of one gang member in London was a Newsnight | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
report replayed today at City Hall for a summit on what to do about | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
gangs. London has turned a corner with gang crime, at least that's the | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
climb Boris Johnson and the Met are instrument pet, but it is an odd | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
form of success where nearly 20 young people were shot or stabbed | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
every week in the capital last year. Are the Met doing enough to help the | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
young men and women taught caught up in the -- caught up in the gangs and | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
would the gang members really trust them. SGLP this year the inquest | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
into Mark Duggan's death flared into angry name calling, a window into | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
tensions between the police and some communities in London. But the | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
police were found to have acted legally in that case, but they are | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
still under a cloud, embarrassed by revelations that officers sold | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
information to newspapers and tried to bring down the cabinet minister, | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
Andrew Mitchell. And today came another blow as the IPCC said it | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
will investigate claims of discreditable conduct over police | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder inquiry. Plenty to talk about | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
with the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Bernard | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
Hogan-Howe. Will you ever rid the streets of gangs? Never completely. | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
One of the things I found was there was a huge problem when I arrived | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
three years ago. And there is still a problem. What worried me was the | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
amount of crime driven by relatively small groups of people. All the | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
people I talked to told me there was a gang people, and yet we the police | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
hadn't acknowledged it. The first thing was to acknowledge the problem | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
and try to do something about it. Do you understand why some young men | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
carry knives? I understand why they say they carry them, I can never | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
defend it myself. You don't agree with carrying a knife but you | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
understand how they may wish to? I can't show anybody knit sympathy for | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
somebody who carries knives. I'm asking for understanding? I'm not | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
going to understand it, my advice to them is not to carry knives. We will | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
do our best to get them out of the lifestyle and arrest the people | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
involved. But you can never give any sympathy to people who carry knives. | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
Do you think you are getting to the girls involved in gangs? I think | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
that is hard e quite often the girls are victims, it is not always true, | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
they are used as couriers for drugs as they are thought to receive a | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
lesser sentence, that is not true. The other way they are victims is | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
traded as sexual playthings around the gangs, that is where they are | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
particularly vulnerable. Are you making as much progress with girls | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
as boys? I don't think it is as profound, there is more to do there. | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
The girls seem as though they have got into the culture themselves of | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
not realising their victims and they are seeks acceptance. I have think | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
we have far more to do but both are important. What are the policing | :44:07. | :44:15. | |
issues that keep awe you awake tonight? The gangs and the amount of | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
crime that they are involved in. We haven't resolved it yet it will take | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
probably a decade of working hard in a careful way. What are the other | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
issues that worry you? We have to think about in London about counter | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
terrorism issues. Obviously we have the threat that people are aware of | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
in terms of Syria and the young men generally who have gone away to | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
Syria. How dangerous is that, young men going to Syria and not coming | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
back? We have seen reports over the last week where there was an attack | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
in Belgium where it was suspected the person had been in Syria,s if | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
that is a sign of things to come that is a worry. It could be if we | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
see large numbers arriving back together, depending on how the war | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
ends. We will have to be concerned about that. Our big concern is a | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
large group of people who are brutalised and have access to other | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
people in a similar frame of mind and may be determined to take | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
political action. You must worry about this, the general standing of | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
the police, something has happened to the relationship between much of | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
the society and the police force. The police are no longer seen as | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
friends, they are no longer seen as trustworthy in many communities, I'm | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
not just talking here about criminal communities, but in parts of society | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
there are things that have happened that have made people think "the | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
bloody police", do you worry about that? We do, although I'm not sure | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
as you have described it, overstates it. Hillsborough, the police made up | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
evidence, they frame a cabinet minister in the plan gate affair -- | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
plebgate affair, how much more do d'oh we need as -- do we need as | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
proof that things are wrong in the police? If you span 0 years and look | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
at journalism and health, how much other issues when looking over 30 | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
years there would be worries. There is special duties belonging to the | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
police? Ly on to that, we have high standards and the police should keep | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
to them. We should all be shocked when those standards are not kept. | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
If we look at things like surveys, the confidence in the police is | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
high. If you look at the evidence going through the courts system, it | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
is rare for police evidence to be doubted. I think there are some | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
things that should reassure us, where there are things have gone | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
wrong it is vital to get to the bottom and put it right. That's all | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. | :46:47. | :47:02. | |
we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all we | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all | :47:09. | :47:09. | |
NSMIT Good There will be lengthy dry spells and | :47:10. | :47:17. | |
breaking through western areas, but more widely through the afternoon. | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
So some decent weather to be had | :47:21. | :47:22. |