30/05/2014 Newsnight


30/05/2014

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


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The rape and murder of two teenage cousins in India

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highlights once again the entrenched problem of sexual violence towards

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TRANSLATION: When I went to the police they asked me what car system

:00:11.:00:28.

I belong to and then I asked -- then they asked why I had come to them. I

:00:29.:00:30.

begged and pleaded for help. I'll be asking the campaigner

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Gita Sahgal why politicians and the police seem incapable

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of treating women as equals. In next week's Newark by-election,

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the Conservatives will be trying to At least one illustrious toff has

:00:39.:00:51.

had his nose bloodied here in the past. Charles I surrendered the town

:00:52.:00:55.

to a people's army back in the Civil War, and it was never the same

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again. Could a similar fate be about to befall David Cameron?

:01:01.:01:04.

Ed Miliband says he no longer reads British newspapers.

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Is he out of touch or ahead of the curve?

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I'll be asking some of Fleet Street's finest and the bureau chief

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The terrible images of two teenage Indian girls hanging from a tree,

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apparently killed after a gang rape in Uttar Pradesh, have been beamed

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around the world, drawing attention again to India's dismal record on

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preventing sexual violence, despite tougher laws enacted after

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the fatal gang rape of a student on a bus in New Delhi in 2012.

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Two alleged perpetrators have been arrested and the search is on

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A word of warning, Jim Reed's report contains very disturbing images

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Put them in jail, we will just not accept this. So when the childs in

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Delhi today. Students protested outside government offices.

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Politicians inside grappled with another shocking case of sexual

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violence. 150 miles away, the village of Katra Shahadatganj, a

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very disturbing scene. Two girls murdered. Aged just 14 and 16, they

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were found only in the morning. Both were raped before they were killed.

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The girls disappeared crossing and Orchard Field to find a toilet.

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Villagers angry at the police response refused to cut the bodies

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down. One of the go's fathers said he went to the police but they would

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not help because he was from a lower caste.

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TRANSLATION: When I first went to the police, they asked me what cost

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belong to and then asked why I had come to them. They said, you people

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create trouble for yourselves. Two police officers have now been sacked

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and a third has been accused of conspiring with the killers. A

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spokesman told Newsnight the whole judicial system needs to change.

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Discrimination based on caste is technically illegal in India but

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human rights groups say it is commonplace. Young women from a

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lower cost group are often the most vulnerable to sexual abuse. -- lower

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caste. The case has been leading news bulletins or week in India. A

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country which has been trying to deal with a string of high-profile

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sexual assault cases. There is utter outrage... In 2012, a student in

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Delhi was raped and murdered on a bus. That triggered nationwide

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protests and a change in the law, making gang rape punishable by

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death, even in cases where the victim survives. In India, rape as a

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crime is still rarely reported. According to official figures, there

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are just six cases for every 100,000 citizens, a fraction of the rate in

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the UK. Just 9% of those make it a trial and just 2% ending conviction.

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Both girls were cremated earlier this week in the village of Katra

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Shahadatganj. Two suspects in their murder, both brothers, are in

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custody. Police are searching for a third man.

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Well, a short while ago, I spoke to Gita Sahgal, the former

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head of Amnesty International's gender unit, and the great niece of

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There was an attitude that in the wake of the horrific bus killings in

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2012 that there would be a change in sexual attitudes towards women, but

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in fact have things got any better for the vast majority of women in

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India? I don't think things have got better for the vast majority of

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women India but what has happened is there has been a big debate and

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young people in particular are really not willing to tolerate what

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they might once have tolerated, so women are coming out and saying they

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will go out, they will be out in public, they will travel on public

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transport, and they want to be able to do these things safely, and they

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feel profoundly unsafe. And indeed I wonder if they feel that fear is

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reinforced, in a way, by the recent elections? For example, we have the

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former chief minister of Uttar Pradesh saying, boys will be boys,

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and his son now is chief minister. Of those attitudes are entrenched in

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politics, why should things change? I think the elections showed some

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pretty awful trends. He and various other politicians made remarks which

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showed they thought there was some electoral mileage in supporting

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people who raped. And that really is astonishing. They were reacting

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against the movements of women coming out, of trying to speak to a

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constituency that they felt would appreciate their remarks and say it

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was open season on women and rape. And misogyny can be worn as a badge

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of honour by many different politicians. A number of other

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politicians have said, if you wear the wrong sort of clothes, you are

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at risk. This isn't, of course, you need to India. People have said this

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in Great Britain, they have said it in America, in many other places. I

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think what is particularly appalling in India, though, is that we have a

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country where rape has been quite consciously used as a weapon of

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division and a weapon of war. In religious conflict, in caste

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conflict. And where you have the state itself implicated in many

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cases. Police, of course, have been criticised over this horrific latest

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rape and hanging, and that if anything is to be done by virtue of

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what we saw in 2012 and this, it is a kind of re-education of the

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police, and that clearly hasn't happened. There are people trying to

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conduct change in rounds of various police forces but, no, it is

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endemic, and the problem is, it comes from the top. I don't think

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one can blame simply the individual policemen. You have been campaigning

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against sex or violence and rape for many, many years, not just in

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India, but also in Britain. And I wonder if you are despondent or if

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you can see something which might lead to change? I think I can't

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afford to be despondent. I think things are very bad and I don't

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actually think they are going to get worse because rape is simply a sign,

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one sign, of a society that is increasingly being brutalised, and

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if society in general is being brutalised them rape will go on

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happening and we have a very long history of it. Rape happens across

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different religious communities and then it has happened repeatedly in

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massacre after massacre in India. In every single year since

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independence. So we have a brutal history. And a very brutal present.

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Gita Sahgal, thank you very much for joining us.

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If the Conservatives could have planned the electoral calendar,

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the last thing they would have wanted after UKIP's performance

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in the European elections would have been a by-election caused

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by the disgrace and resignation of the incumbent Tory MP.

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But next Thursday, in the East Midlands seat of Newark,

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where Patrick Mercer had a 16,000 majority,

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We sent Stephen Smith to this historic Civil War site to see how

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the parties are lining up for battle. Four centuries ago,

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the parties are lining up old stones of Newark Castle ran to

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the sounds of musket and Pike, as the old order wobbled on its axis.

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At least one illustrious toff had the old order wobbled on its axis.

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has his -- had had his nose bloodied here in the past. Charles

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has his -- had had his nose bloodied surrendered the tower to a people's

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army during the Civil War and it was never the same again. Could the same

:10:11.:10:14.

fate be about to befall David Cameron? Now UKIP is mustering its

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still keep -- it's Roman in a bid to take Newark from the Tories.

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still keep -- it's Roman in a bid to say the party harks back to some

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mythical England that never really was. I wonder when UKIP feels

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Britain was last at its best? How far would you to turn the clock

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back? What an question! Nobody is turning the clock back. We're

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looking at the future of Great Britain as a nation connected with

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the world, not an offshore province in a nation called Europe. You seem

:10:55.:11:02.

to have a down on gay marriage, immigration, of course. If you look

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at the MEPs elected last week, they include more than a quarter as

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women, and Asian-Muslim and also an openly gay UKIP MEP from Scotland.

:11:17.:11:21.

These are Conservative Party balloons. Bright, pretty baubles are

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a speciality of the Tory balloons. Bright, pretty baubles are

:11:26.:11:29.

who is a director of a well-known London auction house. You don't feel

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you are a slightly rarefied object, with all due respect to being here?

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As a career politician? I think most people here respond to having

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someone who is a bit younger, has some energy, wants to get things

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done but has some experience before going into politics. What I hope I

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have proved in the last six months is genuine care for the area. I've

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moved here with my family and spent a lot of time... But the UKIP Khai

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has been here all his life, hasn't the? -- UKIP guy? Well, I can't

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think of anything he has achieved in the last four years. Once again, the

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big guns have been wheeled out in Newark. The grandees of the major

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parties have been here in recent days, reeling from the explosion of

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UKIP showing at the European elections. So are the locals

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suitably impressed by all this action? These are the dungeons at

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Newark Castle. He would go so far as to say they would like to see

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politicians incarcerated here. -- few would go. It is difficult to

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find much love for them. How do you feel about voting in general? Do you

:12:45.:12:50.

want the truth? I don't know. I think it's a waste of time. I'd end

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really bother with it. I never ready have done. Do you ever vote here?

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I'm not voting. Why not? I don't want to. Do you generally? No. I do

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get it, I don't vote. They kick and scream if we don't get our word

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across. If not, how can we moan? scream if we don't get our word

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won't find scream if we don't get our word

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turn in Newark market. But if the bloom is well and truly off party

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politics, as some believe, how are the candidates responding? Labour

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won the seat as recently as 97. But all the attraction seems to be with

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UKIP. Look, this is normally a safe seat for David Cameron so I am sure

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this is giving him a huge headache. But people feel let down that their

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energy bills are up and some people voted Lib Dem in 2010 and now let

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down because they support a tax cut for millionaires and tuition fees.

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And people are saying, I'm the only truly local candidate in this race.

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I couldn't see your leader's face on the leaflet there. Is he a liability

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view? No. This is all about local issues and campaigns and talking

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about what we have done across the constituency. Nick Clegg has been a

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brilliant leader for us and we have achieved an awful lot with him

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leading the party in government and I hope he will stay as our leader

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for years to come. Some here are striving to get to Westminster.

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Others streamed their George Osborne's runaway cat, happy to have

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as little as possible to do with the place.

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And this is the full list of candidates that are contesting

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any in other parts of the United Kingdom but there is now evidence of

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a disturbing further dimension. Stormont politician Anna Lo is the

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UK's only parliamentarian of Chinese origin and was the first vice-chair

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of the Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities. But now she says

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she's had enough of racist abuse by loyalists and sectarianism and is

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getting out of Northern Irish politics and perhaps Northern

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Ireland itself, her home for more than 30 years. She joins us now.

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Somebody who went to Northern Ireland at the height of The

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Troubles, and lived there through all The Troubles, you say you feel

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vulnerable and even scared. So why? Well, we certainly have seen an

:15:47.:15:55.

increase of racist attacks on ethnic minorities in recent months. I was

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on a - I was very, very angry when the First Minister of Northern

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Ireland, head of our Government, coming out to support a Past wor who

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had made very -- Pastor who had made very racist, sweeping negative

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comments on a Muslim community and so I was very angry and I was very

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concerned for people in ethnic minority communities and there may

:16:29.:16:32.

be further increase in racism in Northern Ireland. But what's

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happened to you personally, have you felt abuse? Yes, I certainly have

:16:37.:16:47.

experienced threats. I have experienced abuse, online abuse and

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also a recent incident in a shopping centre. You were chased? Yes. And

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are you sure it is only coming from loyalists, I gather that's what you

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are saying? Well, it's difficult to know, but the majority of the online

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abuse would appear to be from loyalists in reaction to our party

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stance on the flags issue and my comments calling for the union flags

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to be taken down from lamp-posts and to have paramilitary murals painted

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before the start of the Giro d'Italia which took place in

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Northern Ireland and I got a backlash from loyalist communities.

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Do you feel that Northern Ireland is your home? Northern Ireland is very

:17:43.:17:51.

much my home. As you said, I came there in 1974, at the height of The

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Troubles. I loved the place, I love the people and I worked in the

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voluntary sector, in social services and in politics now for seven years.

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I gather you spoke to Martin McGuinness on the phone,

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I gather you spoke to Martin you talk about? He was sympathetic

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and wanted to come and see me after the executive committee meeting,

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afternoon but unfortunately I had to afternoon but unfortunately I had to

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be back to my constituency office but we had a good chat on the phone.

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He but we had a good chat on the phone.

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anything that would perintad you but we had a good chat on the phone.

:18:41.:18:50.

overwhelming show of for for you, particularly what you

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overwhelming show of for for you, week, would you reconsider leaving

:18:54.:18:58.

Northern Ireland? I am absolutely heartened and really grateful and

:18:59.:19:03.

appreciate the thousands of messages from people of Northern Ireland. And

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the two rallies organised by people from the public and also NGOs

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the two rallies organised by people really has restored my faith in the

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good people of Northern Ireland. I really has restored my faith in the

:19:19.:19:22.

know we have a very small minority of people

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know we have a very small minority you stay in Northern Ireland, do

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know we have a very small minority think? Yes, I will. Well, thank you

:19:29.:19:29.

very much. think? Yes, I will. Well, thank you

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It might be the depressing nature think? Yes, I will. Well, thank you

:19:33.:19:35.

adverse commentary think? Yes, I will. Well, thank you

:19:36.:19:39.

just the grubby newsprint but whatever it is,

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in British newspapers. If this was said about you, would

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you even If this was said about you, would

:19:51.:19:55.

an interview with a website Ed Miliband

:19:56.:19:58.

an interview with a website Ed much British news. You get a lot of

:19:59.:20:01.

advice in the newspapers of what much British news. You get a lot of

:20:02.:20:05.

should do. It's much more important to follow your own path. Instead,

:20:06.:20:09.

should do. It's much more important his favourite reading material is

:20:10.:20:16.

the American online news compendum Real Clear Politics. Is that a good

:20:17.:20:20.

idea for a man who wants to be British Prime Minister? MrsThatcher

:20:21.:20:25.

couldn't find much time for the papers. Newsnight asked the

:20:26.:20:30.

Government's two leaders what they read and we can exclusively reveal:

:20:31.:20:35.

Nick Clegg reads a range of newspapers and frequently watches

:20:36.:20:39.

news output across a range of platforms. He reads a novel at the

:20:40.:20:42.

end of the day before going to bed. Sir Harold Evans has edited the

:20:43.:21:08.

Sunday Times and The Times. Elinor Good sman a freelance journalist and

:21:09.:21:13.

former political editor of Channel 4 and Karl Cannon is the Washington

:21:14.:21:20.

Bureau Chief of Real Clear Politics. Is Ed Miliband right to ignore

:21:21.:21:25.

British newspapers? Well, I understand why he has revolted by

:21:26.:21:29.

some of the attacks on him which - but I am surprised for a Labour man

:21:30.:21:33.

wishing to take the bread out of the mouths of starving hacks. I mean, is

:21:34.:21:38.

there no sympathy left for the working classes who carry a pen? On

:21:39.:21:47.

a more serious point... Seriously. It's a grave deficiency, the curious

:21:48.:21:53.

thing is I am an admirer of the web, my wife started The Daily Beast, you

:21:54.:21:57.

have to know that some websites are not reliable. They may flatter

:21:58.:22:03.

MrMiliband you with don't flatter the concept of integrity. The actual

:22:04.:22:08.

buzzfeed website that got this interview, it's hard to tell on that

:22:09.:22:12.

site what's news and what is advertising. You have to be careful

:22:13.:22:18.

in dismissing newspapers. I have to say not always are newspapers

:22:19.:22:22.

accurate. But it's understandable that Ed Miliband may not want to be

:22:23.:22:27.

drawn in to, for example, adverse comment, even from perhaps

:22:28.:22:32.

commentators that he admires. I can quite understand why he doesn't want

:22:33.:22:36.

to read the papers every day and perhaps why aides don't want them to

:22:37.:22:41.

see them in - he would be so depressed, look at Nick Clegg, I

:22:42.:22:45.

mean, he says he does read the papers, God knows how he can manage

:22:46.:22:48.

it. He would choke over his breakfast. We have recent surveys

:22:49.:22:54.

which show that 73% of adults still read a daily newspaper each day,

:22:55.:22:56.

isn't there a danger that Ed Miliband is out of touch with the

:22:57.:23:00.

majority of the voters, voters he badly needs? An awful lot of

:23:01.:23:04.

floating voters don't read the papers which is one of the problems

:23:05.:23:07.

politicians have in communicating with them. Obviously this is a

:23:08.:23:12.

danger that he may be bounced in some way out of a TV studio, what's

:23:13.:23:16.

your about what One Direction were up to a cab or whatever. The serious

:23:17.:23:23.

danger is that politicians do need the minuteae of the coverage every

:23:24.:23:29.

day, as Tony Blair admit, become obsessed with tomorrow's headlines

:23:30.:23:36.

and micoro-manage. The serious danger is at the moment for Clegg is

:23:37.:23:41.

just being demoralised and for Miliband too. Imagine seeing

:23:42.:23:45.

yourself eating a bacon buttie like that. You must be flattered that Ed

:23:46.:23:50.

Miliband says you are the go-to website at Real Clear Politics but

:23:51.:23:55.

it's extraordinary, I look at your website and there is a tiny amount

:23:56.:23:59.

of British political news. It's all American news. Well, he spent a

:24:00.:24:08.

couple of years in Boston as a kid and we - there is real clear sports

:24:09.:24:12.

and energy, I wonder if he is going to the site to find out how the

:24:13.:24:19.

Boston Red Sox did. In seriousness, if you want a good report op

:24:20.:24:24.

American politics, we have our own coverage. It's a good place to get a

:24:25.:24:28.

report. As a British politician, it's probably not enough for you.

:24:29.:24:34.

Especially a man who is only a year to the next election. Do you think

:24:35.:24:40.

that there is a change in the way - are newspapers more brutal, less

:24:41.:24:44.

considered, is there more to concern politicians, is the debate more

:24:45.:24:58.

base? I think New York's got a problem. We may have lost New York.

:24:59.:25:06.

We are taking it as read as if Miliband doesn't really read the

:25:07.:25:12.

papers. He himself admits that he is given a digest. After all, he was

:25:13.:25:19.

speaking on this news station, I think politicians always want to

:25:20.:25:22.

give the impression they don't read the newspapers. John Major did the

:25:23.:25:26.

same. To suggest that you read the papers every day, every headline, it

:25:27.:25:29.

implies a certain weakness, that you are about to be bossed around by

:25:30.:25:36.

them. Seriously I don't think he completely ignores what's going On

:25:37.:25:41.

Our Way On Our Way -- on, on the British agenda. What do you think Ed

:25:42.:25:45.

Miliband is missing in terms of his political direction and development

:25:46.:25:52.

by not reading the newspapers? Well, I think you never know, who know

:25:53.:25:56.

what is a newspaper's going to turn up. I was thinking as you were

:25:57.:26:01.

talking of various fantastic stories that emerged in the newspaper with

:26:02.:26:06.

the depth to do them properly and photographs, etc. At the same time,

:26:07.:26:09.

there is no doubt about it, newspapers in print are in serious

:26:10.:26:15.

decline. But you have to never underrate what a newspaper may turn

:26:16.:26:18.

up when you have really good reporters on the job and what

:26:19.:26:23.

surprises me somewhat about Ed Miliband, although I totally

:26:24.:26:27.

symphathise with his revulsion f you want to know what people are

:26:28.:26:32.

thinking, even with about ten million newspaper readers, you need

:26:33.:26:35.

to Joe what undercurrents are emerging through the newspapers --

:26:36.:26:42.

you need to know. It would be inconceivable for earn American

:26:43.:26:45.

President to say they didn't look at the Chicago Times or the was wassen

:26:46.:26:51.

to -- Boston Globe, it would be inconceivable for them to admit

:26:52.:26:56.

that? No, actually George W Bush gave an interview to a respected

:26:57.:27:01.

journalist at ABC and then went to Fox news and said he didn't read

:27:02.:27:06.

newspapers, I was kind of astonishing, liberal critics said

:27:07.:27:12.

see, he is dumb and admits it. I had dinner with President Bush at the

:27:13.:27:17.

White House, I was President of an association and I asked him, I said

:27:18.:27:20.

what is this, you don't read newspapers? He said, well, I kind of

:27:21.:27:24.

read newspapers but I don't read the columnists, the opinion columnists.

:27:25.:27:29.

Then Laura Bush overheard us and piped up and she said, he does too

:27:30.:27:34.

read the newspapers. I wish he would quit saying that. I said - I said,

:27:35.:27:38.

MrsBush, the President does read newspapers? She said, he brings them

:27:39.:27:46.

into bed every morning. I would take a grain of salt with it that Ed

:27:47.:27:50.

Miliband never really reads newspapers. It would be

:27:51.:27:55.

inconceivable an American President would cite a British website as his

:27:56.:27:59.

main go-to for political information? It's a very good

:28:00.:28:09.

website. An unusual for an American President to cite, or American

:28:10.:28:13.

candidate for presidency to cite a British political website as his

:28:14.:28:23.

go-to for information. The problem about saying that's your go-to

:28:24.:28:30.

website t may seem cool in sort of northern intellectual circles around

:28:31.:28:33.

Hampstead or wherever as such still exists but it's not exactly making

:28:34.:28:37.

him one of the people. You can just look at Twitter and things today and

:28:38.:28:42.

you can see and the aggrieved tone of some of the British newspapers

:28:43.:28:48.

suggesting this reinforces the idea that Miliband is out of touch. Thank

:28:49.:28:52.

you very much. We try not to pander to politicians on Newsnight but

:28:53.:28:57.

tonight for Ed Miliband's delectation we have decided to

:28:58.:29:01.

include the online digital content of the papers, The Huffington Post,

:29:02.:29:11.

UK first. The Culture Secretary to review all aspects of the BBC,

:29:12.:29:17.

including the licence fee. Buzzfeed, problems everyone in northern call

:29:18.:29:28.

-- in Cornwall can understand. And Real Clear Politics.

:29:29.:29:31.

Well, time was when spelling bees were all the rage, in America they

:29:32.:29:36.

still are. Fr the first time since 1962 the final of the annual Scripps

:29:37.:29:42.

National Spelling Behas been tied between two contestants. We thought

:29:43.:29:45.

you might like an opportunity to play along at at home. Here is the

:29:46.:29:50.

word that gave Ansun Sujoe his joint victory: Feuilleton. Good night and

:29:51.:30:03.

good luck. Any pronounceations? Feuilleton.

:30:04.:30:15.

Can you please repeat the word? Sure. Feuilleton. No more questions.

:30:16.:30:24.

Get the letters out there. OK. Whatever.

:30:25.:30:27.

LAUGHTER However you say it, just spell it.

:30:28.:30:40.

Correct. APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

:30:41.:30:52.

Co-champions for weekend looks mostly fine across the

:30:53.:31:19.

vast majority of the UK, avoiding the rain. This is how Saturday

:31:20.:31:23.

looks. Some cloud around and the odd shower down the spine of England and

:31:24.:31:28.

Wales but most places are avoiding these. Northern Ireland looking OK.

:31:29.:31:33.

Scotland having spells of sunshine. Any showers will be very isolated

:31:34.:31:37.

indeed with temperatures inland responding to the sunshine nicely.

:31:38.:31:41.

Some cooling sea breezes on the coast. The odd shower popping up

:31:42.:31:45.

over the Pennines and the Midlands, but these will be fairly isolated.

:31:46.:31:50.

Reasonable spells of sunshine across the south-east with temperatures a

:31:51.:32:00.

degree or two higher than they have been. Over the western coast

:32:01.:32:01.

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