02/06/2014 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman.

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rerun in the light of allegations of corruption. This was the moment when


the king of Spain proved the value of a monarchy, as he decides to call


it a day, how much of Spain's transition to democracy can he take


credit for. It has been gone so long it is difficult to go-to-come back.


It is like a diver going deep on the dive and has to stage back up


through ompression. The parents of the freed American soldier, Bowe


Bergdahl, has yet to talk to their son. How does a person return to the


world after five years incarceration at gun point. A


world after five years incarceration five years by FARC guerrillas is


here. Kirsty Allsop is here five years by FARC guerrillas is


defend the idea that better to get their breeding done


early. Well the


early. will be held in Qatar, at least that


is how it is tonight, but will be held in Qatar, at least that


of yesterday's revelations by the Sunday Times that the extraordinary


decision to hold the contest in place where summer temperatures are


high enough to fry an egg on a crossbar, that decision may have had


something to do with money being splashed about, have cast the whole


thing into doubt. Any decision about whether to have a re-think will have


to wait for a proper inquiry. But there is a very bad


to wait for a proper inquiry. But The golden prize, not winning the


tournament, but the chance to host it.


Can I ask you one quick question? : The tiny Arab country Qatar does not


want to discuss it. We haven't an official response, that's why?


Minister? A torrent of claims alleges they paid millions to


football officials to buy the bid. Now an investigation is


football officials to buy the bid. that could, the Prime Minister


hinted, result in the vote being rerun. That could lead to England


having another chance to host the tournament, because its failed bid


for 2018 was part of the same messy process. I will never forget the


meetings we wept to the lobbying we did, it was like no other election I


have been involved in, because every single person we met, whether the


head of the FA, in this part of the world or that part of the world,


they all said, yes of course we're going to vote for England to host


the World Cup. And then they voted completely the other way and we


ended up with one vote, but any way we will see what happens with this


inquiry into the World Cup. Who knows what the chances may be for


the future. The allegations claim that the former FIFA official, was


lobbying on his country's behalf more than a year before the decision


was made. And that he made payments into bank accounts controlled by the


Presidents of 30 African Football Associations and a former Vice


President of FIFA. The claims have been denied, and FIFA's own


investigator, American lawyer, Michael Garcia, has promised his


report into the affair will be complete next week. I don't think


there is any choice for FIFA other than if it is going to restore its


credibility it has to do so by reholding that bidding process, but


also there has to be questions about the governance of the game by FIFA


and whether Mr Blatter is a fit and proper person to continue to oversee


that process. It has to be completely independent of those


people who have been involved before. A senior source at FIFA told


me the allegations are horrific, but that Bin Hamam was trying to run a


campaign to replace Sepp Blatter at the same time. Was he trying to


improve his own prospects not the Qatar bid. Another industry insider


said without question if the FIFA investigation shows direct evidence


of rigging the process, there will have to be another vote. FIFA's


investigator isn't just looking at the behaviour of the Qataries, they


have also been here, talking to those who promoted England's


ultimately doomed bid for 2018. But whether or not they do provide


enough direct evidence that Qatar's World Cup was bought and sold,


reopening the bidding process would not be straight forward. FIFA will


do everything they can to resist it, because one of the consequences of a


rebuilding is that a potential breakaway from FIFA, a potential


disintegration if the disaffected parties, particularly Qatar and


perhaps African federations implicated might decide they don't


want to participate any more. If the sense of objections swell, Qatar may


never complete its swanky stadiums, if not... What would it say about


the state of the game if the tournament in Qatar goes ahead?


Dead. Dead? Dead as a viable and honourable and esteemable sport at


international level. It has to be changed now. This mess begs a wider


question too, how can the contest to host international sporting events,


with billions of bounds worth of prestige ever be genuine. If some


countries are prepared to flout the rules. One source familiar with the


process said to me, if you are running against a country that is


not democratic, there is no point. They can do whatever they want. They


are, unaccountable. The England team now must concentrate on the game as


they prepare for Brazil. But FIFA has much more than the next few


weeks of football to concern them. We have a former member of FIFA's


independent governance committee, which was set up to make the


organisation more transparent, she resigned last year after FIFA failed


to adopt many of her proposelias. How significant do you proposals.


How significant do you -- proposals. How significant are these


allegations? I think there is a lot of suspicion about the process and


the Qatar decision ultimately. This level of documentation and evidence,


if shown to be authentic, is stunning. We don't know and it is


yesterday to be established whether there is any connection between what


seems to have been done and what the Government of Qatar wanted? We have


to accept that don't we? Sure, that's true and an important step in


all of this, but a bribe is transactional, it is between two


different parties. Regardless of who Bin Hamam was working for, if all of


these allegations are turning out to be true someone was on the other


side of it. Those people are senior in the FIFA establishment. You know


this organisation, why is it so ghastly? It is a surprising


organisation in many ways, but when you have an enormous and wealthy


nonprofit like this, you don't have the shareholders to keep it honest


as you would in a completion. -- corporation. You can have governance


and we didn't have much Luke from that, or governance by the host,


Switzerland is not showing much on there. And the sponsors have seemed


pretty indifferent to the issues. So the Swiss should be keeping an eye


on FIFA should they? Well they are the host country and organisations


within Switzerland are governed by Swiss law. Absolutely. That would be


the obvious choice. How could it be changed then? Well, again, if the


Swiss Government weighs in and starts paying more attention to the


Swiss law as it applies to its own nonprofit -- non--profits, or if


there is a ground well that reaches out to the sponsors I think we could


see change there. I don't think we should wait for FIFA to reform


itself. You didn't wait, you voted with your feet, you resigned, why? I


did. It was not a very fruitful undertaking I have to say. I was


very enthusiastic at the outset, I thought it was a process that was


both intriguing and very welcome by FIFA. Very few organisations set out


to establish a group like our's and then reject their recommendations.


And although some of the recommendations were ultimately


accepted, many were rejected. It just wasn't a good use of time in


the end. There are organisations that are inseer in their reform


efforts. So let's be clear about this, FIFA set you up as an


organisation to keep them honest, and when they didn't like some of


the things you said, you had to quit? Well, it was a surprising


conclusion to the process for me as well. We drafted a large number of


recommendation, many of them very ordinary good governance


recommendations and many were rejected outright. They cherrypicked


through and took several, but most were rejected. As far as the Qatar,


World Cup, 2022 bid is concerned now, what ought to happen? What


ought to happen and what will happen are probably different things. What


ought to happen is to restore international confidence in the


process, I do think they need to re-run the vote. I don't think there


is any avoiding that now if the ultimate goal is the confidence of


the public. We have a series of scandals, and I'm just not sure how


much longer the stakeholders are expected to accept scandal after


scandal. It needs to come to an end. Whether that will happen is another


question. Thank you very much for joining us.


Laura is here, our chief correspondent. You have got some


more news what can we expect to happen next? As was said this is


dreadful for FIFA, but it is not the first time there have been


allegations of what happened in Qatar. This incredible tumble of


information out there now is capping off allegations of corruption that


have already been made. And huge concerns about workers building the


stadiums in Qatar and what is going on with that. But it appears it


would be very risky financially and hugely inconvenient to unpick the


mess. We have been talking to sources at some of the European


clubs. Clubs have huge power in football, it is not just about the


international organisations. It has been suggested to us something


rather different that some inside FIFA may look for a way of wriggling


out of the Qatar mess. There is the physical problem of holding the


tournament in temperatures of over 40 degrees, for players and fans to


be fainting in the heat. The clubs are adamant that the tournament


cannot be moved to the winter, that not financially viable to them and


it would bust up the business model of the Premiership here and cause


problems in the other countries. Holding it in the summer would be a


farce, because of that there is a growing sense that while these kinds


of allegations in the short-term are very painful, in the long-term this


could start to look like a way of FIFA actually digging themselves out


of the hole that this whole bid mess created.


The king of Spain has decided to hang up his crown, the man chosen as


Head of State by the departing fascist ruler, General Franco, has


suffered ill-health and scandal and has had enough. Voluntary abdication


because you are getting on would have been unthinkable for centuries,


and not least because people drop dead a lot earlier than they do


nowadays. It has happened recently in Belgium, Holland and now Spain,


raising among some a question of whether Elizabeth the English Queen


and the gold standard in British monkeys Monarchies might resign.


What has been the reaction to this news.


It is a big moment, as can you imagine, this is a royal house that


has experienced plenty of abdications, five previous ones, as


you just said this is a time of abdications. The third in the space


of 14 months in Europe. Little couldn'ter then that thousands did


take to the streets this evening demanding a vote on the future of


the monarchy itself, a Republican demonstration calling for the


scrapping of the institution. But that said, although some polls


recently had shown something like 80% of Spanish saying that King Juan


Carlos should step down, the institution of monarchy remains


subject to majority support here. Most people want it to continue.


There could be many reasons for that, not least the fact that it is


felt to have played a transformative function during his regin, which has


now lasted nearly four decades. Almost everywhere history has


relegated royals to the role of decorative players. As the old


dictator General Franco faded away he gave the House of Burbon one last


chance to captain the state. Juan Carlos became the custodian of


Spain's transition back to democracy. And it was a fleeting


role, because once parliamentary institutions were restored, his


powers were soon clipped. But it wasn't a free ride. ??FORCEDWHI A


Colonel tried to mount a coup. And against this blatant adventurism as


well as a host of other challenges, the king stood fast. I wasn't afraid


for Spain because I knew what the whole majority of the Armed Forces


and the people in general wanted, and really needed for me to do that


night. Having served his purpose Juan Carlos settled back into the


more usual royal routine, attending royal weddings, visiting the sick,


and presiding over state occasions. His popularity held out for many


years, people even forgave the reported affairs. But it was


austerity that did for him. I think he is tired, psychologically, he has


been trying to improve his image, and he hasn't succeeded, he has just


given up. As simple as that. There aren't many leaders for whom an


elephant in the room becomes their literal nemesis. But photos of Juan


Carlos hunting big game may have given the death wound to his regin.


Not only had he been he will telling reporters how he felt the pain of


Spain's unemployed, but he has also championed wildlife conservation. So


a regin that began in 1975, which such constitutional and political


importance, ends in a series of tabloid scandals. Spain faces all


manner of crises now, not least getting the procedure right for his


son to take over. Today Juan Carlos told his nation


that he would hand power to his son, who the House trusts will find it


easier to play the part of austerity Monarch. TRANSLATION: Today a new


generation must lead, younger people with more energy, determined to push


through with the reforms we need and face our future challenges. I have


only ever wanted to contribute to the welfare of ordinary Spaniards, I


want the best for this country. He's a man in his mid-40s, fresh,


untainted by the scandals affecting his family. But at the same time


he's someone that is not that well known, he hasn't been under the


spotlight that often. Let's say he has the potential to become very


popular, but in a way it is still an enigma. The worst of all for him is


he will face the country at a moment of huge crisis of different sorts,


economic, political, constitutional and well it is a challenge that is


really difficult. While Juan Carlos was unpopular here there is no


overwhelming desire of public, the House of Bush Bonn -- Burbon might


just get a chance of ention and a new king.


Paul Preston is with us, you wrote a book back Juan Carlos didn't you? I


did. The text on the subject? So he says! How important a figure do you


think history will judge him to be? Fantastic. I mean there really


aren't words to describe in retrospect how he will be seen. I


don't want to say he made democracy. The pressure came from the Spanish


people. But what he did in terms of neutralising the army in the course


of 1976 to make it possible for there to be the transactions and the


negotiations that brought about what is actually quite a limited


transition in the first instance. That was immensely courageous, and


then after the first elections in 1977, over the next four years he


acted as fireman of democracy. And until, which we have just seen, the


defeat of the coup in 1981, he was absolutely the key plan. I think it


is fair to say without him there would have very likely been


bloodshed. Despite the errors, and the ending of a glorious regin, I


think history will treat him very benevolently. You look at the


pictures of protest against him in Spain, and clearly a lot of people


have forgotten that? There is a couple of issues here, first of all


there is a generational thing. A lot of people who were born,


35-year-olds were born when he was already king, and if you look at the


polls, the support amongst people who are 35 and below for the


monarchy is around about the 40% more, as against the 65% mark more


generally. We need to remember that five years ago it was in the 80s. So


there has been a fall. The problem is that the king as the pinnacle of


the political system, in the first instance was, if you like, splashed


by the mud that was going on because of the massive discontent as a


result of the economic crisis. It then hit him personally the biggest


thing behind the demos, not directly against the king or monarchy, they


are against the political system. But the political system is riddled


with corruption, right from municiple level to the top. And the


king was associated with it. Once it hit his family personally, once


investigations started into his son-in-law then that hit him. That


since, combined with a general weariness on his part, and of course


the issue you about the German Princess, about the elephant hunting


and so on and so forth. That is personal? It is personal but in


Spain it is very odd. There was a point in Mark's report where he


referred that he managed to get over the fact of many affairs. The


Spaniards are worse than the French in this regard, or better, it


depends the way you look at it. They don't give a damn about the sexual


life of their male leaders. But the sense that money was being wasted or


money changing hands in a corrupt manner, which has to be proved but


the generalised feeling that was the case has caused part of the problem.


Can we reappraise Franco for the fact that he chose this man,


cleverly by your account in the transition to democracy, Franco


chose him for the job? Absolutely not. He chose him and trained them.


Effectively Juan Carlos was kidnapped age 10 and taken to Spain


to be trained in FAUNGS. In the meanwhile Franco played with various


royal candidates and he chose Juan Carlos to humiliate the legitimate


king who was his father. That was the first dirty trick he did. The


second thing is Franco trained Juan Carlos in order to maintain the


dictatorship. What is truly remarkable and courageous about him


is he betrayed Franco and the old system. Technically he didn't. There


was an immensely clever arrangement whereby very, very clever


constitutional lawyers, if you like, worked out ways to wriggle through


Franco's constitutional arrangement, that there by made it possible for


him to seem to fulfil the oaths he had taken. He did absolutely what


Franco did not want him to do. His family seems delighted, presumably


he is too, but the circumstances under which US army Sergeant Bowe


Bergdahl came to be freed after five years in Taliban captivity have set


off a furious spat. They demonstrate unambiguously about how all that


talk about the United States not negotiating with hostage takers is


so much hot air, it does and it did. In exchange of five of what the US


claim to be the most dangerous men in the world have been freed. In


addition to that there is the small matter of how Sergeant Bergdahl came


to be captured in the first place. Release me, please, I'm begging you,


bring me home. For five years a steady drip of Taliban videos


provided the link to America's only prisoner of war. Please. Bring me


home. Five years of moral dilemma between two American promises,


"leave no man behind" and "we don't negotiate with terrorists". The


military motto won, Bowe Bergdahl is coming home. But while there is


celebrations in his home town were the yellow ribbons were tied


awaiting his return and where the balloons now fly, that difficult


choice has consequences. An emotional reunion in Qatar between


the Taliban and their five senior commanders, held for more than ten


years in Guantanamo Bay. Their release described as a big victory


by the Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Omar in a rare public statement. And


so the battle moves to America. And for control of the political


narrative. A President, flanked by two


delighted parents. Sergeant Sergi has missed birthdays and holidays


and a simple moment with family and friends which all of us take for


granted, but while Bowe was gone, he was never forgotten. With these


prisoners of war exchanged as Afghan operations wind down, or as


President Obama's opponents believe, was it a deal done with terrorists


in a global war on terror, that America is still fight. We are all


grateful he is returned. There are legitimate questions about these


individuals who are being released and the conditions under way they


will be released. These are the hardest of the hardcore. These are


the highest high-risk people. And others that we have released have


gone back into the fight. That has been documented. There is


uncertainty about how Bowe Bergdahl was captured. It has some here


asking if he was a hero or deserter. And whether America should have paid


such a high price for his return. I was behind a patrol, I was lagging


behind the patrol and I was captured. But colleagues say there


was no patrol, that he left the base of his own accord, leaving his


helmet and body armour behind. The last e-mail to his parents before


his disappearance indicated his state of mind. "These people need


help... " It is this controversy, personal and


political that Bowe Bergdahl will return to once he's well enough. His


parents fought for his freedom and will now have to help him readjust


to it. You are free, freedom is yours. I will see you soon my


beloved son, I love you. He has been gone so long that it will be very


difficult to come back. It is like a diver going deep on a dive and has


to stage back up through recompression, to get the nitrogen


bubbles out of the system. If he comes up too fast it could kill him.


Last month his father Bob spoke to the Guardian, recording on video the


pain of waiting for a son to come home. I wake up each morning and my


first thought is my son is still a prisoner of war in Afghanistan. This


is where Bowe grew up, learned to hunt. This winter camp was built in


case he was released. We set this up for him, hoping he would get home


this winter, maybe he will need a place to stay. And kind of recover.


His father has let his beard grow, has learned some Pashtu, campaigned


relentlessly for his release and given some insight into why his son


joined the military. I know it was Bow, he's motivation to help these


people, it is how the war is shaped in the mind of a lot of Americans.


Is that we are there as some kind of peace corp with guns. That is just


an impossible mission. It is a mission we are not very good at I


believe. The last decade proves that. There is excitement and


anticipation about his home coming, they care little here about talks


with the Taliban, US-Afghan relations and the political cost to


President Obama or America, just the son that's coming home. We have the


light up there that we turned on when Bowe was first captured, we


have it had on ever since, we are going to let him turn that off.


We're joined now by a woman held captive by the Colombian FARC


movement for six years. What will he be feeling this released young man?


I think he's probably of course filled with joy. But also with fear.


He must be fearing to come back to a world that he doesn't know any more.


Feeling that he doesn't belong any more. Because he has become so


accustomed to the narrow confines of the world that he has been living


in? No it is because the problem of the time. Five years makes you, he


knows that he has missed many of the things that had happened in his


family. That probably the people he knew are not the same, or probably


some have died. That the world's going to come back to is not the


same t has changed. And also because he will have to try to find another


way of living. How is he likely to have been changed by the experience?


In many, many ways probably the first thing he will notice is that


the relationship he has with his family, which will be like the


standard, where he will want to come back to, will have changed because


he will have probably difficulties to trust. One of the problems when


you are abducted is you are confronted on a daily basis that


with people who are lying to you. So it becomes to you like normal or


natural just to always be very sceptical and always you know have


this trust problem. I suppose that he will have also to bear the fact


that his own suffering will be put in balance with the suffering of his


family and that's something that is always traumatic N a way there is


this kind of discussion of who suffered the most. If you were going


to give advice, if you were asked, I know you wouldn't give it otherwise,


but if you were asked to give advice to him or his family what would it


be? I think the key is love, you know. It is very difficult, in those


situations everything is so fragile and I think that if the intention is


love then things get slowly into place. Is it possible there might


even be things that he would miss from his captivity? Not at the first


moment, I would say, that in the first years he will just be so happy


to be out of there. But afterwards, he might be like thinking over on


what he lived and bringing back things that became important for him


and it will give him another perspective. Not that he won't want


to go back, but in a way that he will evaluate or assess for example


the ability to be alone, to reflect on things and to meditate. After


all, and your horrible experience being held captive for all those


years you say you thank God for it? Yes. Why? Because I think that in my


case it was an opportunity to grow. In many ways to mature. But those


grow spiritually, to try to understand myself i think I


discovered myself in the jungle with the good and bad things that I


wanted to change. Thank you very much, thank you. What do we tell our


daughters, our friends about how to live their lives. The editor of


Cosmopolitan magazine allegedly claimed that women could have


careers, everything and orgasams. But a female reader has discovered,


one after another, that the one thing you can have, is advice in


abundance. Now comes along is Her Poshness Kirsty Allsop says they


need to get it in the right order, have your children while you can


rather than when your career will allow


rather than when your career will Apart from the dangers of male


colleagues that remain, this scene is not quite as routine as it once


was. Family life came first, to such distractions as university for young


women. Since distractions as university for young


changed dramatically. Women are now more likely than men to go to


university. And that is reflected in the age women are choosing to have


children. From 23 in the late 1960s to nearly 30 now. Women may be


having it all, but probably not all at the same time. Property expert


and presenter Kirsty Allsop says women need to prioritise. The period


of time we can get married and children, but as a woman your


fertility drops off the cliff aged 35. Today the self-described


feminist went further talking to the Telegraph, she says the advice she


would give to her own hypothetical daughter was let's get you in flat,


find you a nice boyfriend and you can have a baby by the time you are


27. There was an eruption. What was so wrong with the advice about women


choosing their own vocation, vocation, vocation. We are ajoined


by Kirsty and Holly the editor of Vagenda magazine. What do you make


of the advice? I find it slightly depressing. What is sad about it is


that you say you know you have this hypothetical daughter, growing up in


a society that makes it difficult to be a mother viae a career and do


university and things so, I would ask her to change her life around,


and what I find depressing about that is I really want society to


change. I want us to campaign for things like paternity leave to be


extended, and for flexible working hours. I don't want women's lives to


have to change. There is one thing Holly that is really difficult in


all of this. I want exactly what you want, all of those things, but


nature is not with you and I. Nature is not a feminist. This one factor


about the fertility window is the only thing that I was addressing and


discussing. Go to university, have a career, do what makes you happy,


travel, write, do whatever you want, but be aware of the fertility window


and make your choices in an informed way. And this fertility window has


been a taboo topic, people have not discussed it. And that's the issue,


we can't change it. That issen unarguable fact, fertility does go


over a cliff as you put it by the time, from about mid-30s on wards?


If you have a fertility problem you don't know about it and you hit 35


and go into forms of treatment that is very difficult. That is a


biological fact? It is also that two people make a baby and why should be


a woman considering. Because only the woman is affected by the


fertility problem? Why shouldn't the man leave university as well. Holly


is quite right, that is what I said in the article, that is why today


has particularly enraged me, I have been condemned for saying it, people


haven't read the whole interview. I have! In the interview I said if I


had a son of 26 in a loving relationship with someone, I would


say to him, address the topic of what you both want for your future.


It is important that men understand about the fertility window just the


same as women. Because it impacts them. They want to be parents. And


if they don't want to be parents they need to say, sorry, that is not


what I want right now, this isn't for me. We need to be more honest,


as women to each other and as parents to our children. Because the


heartache of interfillity, we have all seen it, we -- infertility, we


have all friends who have failed to understand this window because women


haven't been honest with other women because we have lots of things we


still have to achieve and there is lots of things that women still


struggle to get on equal terms. So this topic has been taboo. You must


have come across women who have struggled with this? Personally what


I come across more often with the Vagenda is people telling me they


are constantly reminded in the media about their fertility, about their


biological clock ticking, about how they should choose between a career


and a child and how that should be mutually exclusive. To me, I know


this isn't something you are opposed to. It is not mutually exclusive,


but it is a biological argument? I do think the clock is ticking but I


don't see how it changes into you changing your life. Especially not


only for a woman, or a daughter. If I had a daughter I would say to her


think about it, it is her personal biological clock, it is her personal


fertility, she needs to discuss it with her partner obviously. We have


to reatraining our lives because we live so much longer, you know.


Nature has in one sense been beaten by us, we have added 20 years to our


life span in the last 100 years and yet we haven't been able to alter,


in any way, that fertility women, because women are born with their


eggs, they are desperate to get out from the age of 14, by the time you


are 35 they have been trying to get out for 20 years? Definitely, but


there is so much pressure by the media women are so aware of it, and


they are hold to be hypera-- told to be hyperaware of it. There is this


structural problem with women not being able to have babies and


careers. The real priority is to make sure that we have those things


in place that they can. We shouldn't be telling women only to be


responsible. I know this isn't exactly what you said as well. But


women only to be responsible. Did you reorganise your life? I was very


lucky Jeremy, because I was desperate for children from a very


early age and nobody was interested. Absolutely not. When I met my


partner was 32 and he knew that I wanted children and we had them


sooner than would have been ideal. So it worked out for you? Only just.


But it did work out? It did, but I was lucky. The thing I'm really


adamant about, make your choices, don't let, as Holly said, don't let


society dictate, but make your choices in an informed way. If we


say to women it is OK, it is OK, wait, waiting wait we are denying


those women who want children, and there are many who don't, and that


is a very important issue, this is not for everyone. But those who know


at an early stage they want children, they need to look at all


the choices available and say should I reorder the choices in order to


reflect that the only window closing is my fertility window, my education


and career window is not closing. Including the men they are with?


Yes, of course. There are reckoned to be thousands of young people in


gangs in London, when I say young I mean the average age of being a


member of one of these gangs on first conviction is 15. Today law


enforcement officials from both sides of the Atlantic met to pool


ideas about how to combat the lure of gang life and how to limit its


damage. Older guys told us how to do things, how to beef, how to make


money. Don't leave your boy, don't run, don't snitch, don't get caught.


JT Jumps Off, the story of one gang member in London was a Newsnight


report replayed today at City Hall for a summit on what to do about


gangs. London has turned a corner with gang crime, at least that's the


climb Boris Johnson and the Met are instrument pet, but it is an odd


form of success where nearly 20 young people were shot or stabbed


every week in the capital last year. Are the Met doing enough to help the


young men and women taught caught up in the -- caught up in the gangs and


would the gang members really trust them. SGLP this year the inquest


into Mark Duggan's death flared into angry name calling, a window into


tensions between the police and some communities in London. But the


police were found to have acted legally in that case, but they are


still under a cloud, embarrassed by revelations that officers sold


information to newspapers and tried to bring down the cabinet minister,


Andrew Mitchell. And today came another blow as the IPCC said it


will investigate claims of discreditable conduct over police


handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder inquiry. Plenty to talk about


with the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Bernard


Hogan-Howe. Will you ever rid the streets of gangs? Never completely.


One of the things I found was there was a huge problem when I arrived


three years ago. And there is still a problem. What worried me was the


amount of crime driven by relatively small groups of people. All the


people I talked to told me there was a gang people, and yet we the police


hadn't acknowledged it. The first thing was to acknowledge the problem


and try to do something about it. Do you understand why some young men


carry knives? I understand why they say they carry them, I can never


defend it myself. You don't agree with carrying a knife but you


understand how they may wish to? I can't show anybody knit sympathy for


somebody who carries knives. I'm asking for understanding? I'm not


going to understand it, my advice to them is not to carry knives. We will


do our best to get them out of the lifestyle and arrest the people


involved. But you can never give any sympathy to people who carry knives.


Do you think you are getting to the girls involved in gangs? I think


that is hard e quite often the girls are victims, it is not always true,


they are used as couriers for drugs as they are thought to receive a


lesser sentence, that is not true. The other way they are victims is


traded as sexual playthings around the gangs, that is where they are


particularly vulnerable. Are you making as much progress with girls


as boys? I don't think it is as profound, there is more to do there.


The girls seem as though they have got into the culture themselves of


not realising their victims and they are seeks acceptance. I have think


we have far more to do but both are important. What are the policing


issues that keep awe you awake tonight? The gangs and the amount of


crime that they are involved in. We haven't resolved it yet it will take


probably a decade of working hard in a careful way. What are the other


issues that worry you? We have to think about in London about counter


terrorism issues. Obviously we have the threat that people are aware of


in terms of Syria and the young men generally who have gone away to


Syria. How dangerous is that, young men going to Syria and not coming


back? We have seen reports over the last week where there was an attack


in Belgium where it was suspected the person had been in Syria,s if


that is a sign of things to come that is a worry. It could be if we


see large numbers arriving back together, depending on how the war


ends. We will have to be concerned about that. Our big concern is a


large group of people who are brutalised and have access to other


people in a similar frame of mind and may be determined to take


political action. You must worry about this, the general standing of


the police, something has happened to the relationship between much of


the society and the police force. The police are no longer seen as


friends, they are no longer seen as trustworthy in many communities, I'm


not just talking here about criminal communities, but in parts of society


there are things that have happened that have made people think "the


bloody police", do you worry about that? We do, although I'm not sure


as you have described it, overstates it. Hillsborough, the police made up


evidence, they frame a cabinet minister in the plan gate affair --


plebgate affair, how much more do d'oh we need as -- do we need as


proof that things are wrong in the police? If you span 0 years and look


at journalism and health, how much other issues when looking over 30


years there would be worries. There is special duties belonging to the


police? Ly on to that, we have high standards and the police should keep


to them. We should all be shocked when those standards are not kept.


If we look at things like surveys, the confidence in the police is


high. If you look at the evidence going through the courts system, it


is rare for police evidence to be doubted. I think there are some


things that should reassure us, where there are things have gone


wrong it is vital to get to the bottom and put it right. That's all


we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night.


we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all we


have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all


NSMIT Good There will be lengthy dry spells and


breaking through western areas, but more widely through the afternoon.


So some decent weather to be had


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