02/06/2014 Newsnight

rerun in the light of allegations of corruption. This was the moment when

the king of Spain proved the value of a monarchy, as he decides to call

it a day, how much of Spain's transition to democracy can he take

credit for. It has been gone so long it is difficult to go-to-come back.

It is like a diver going deep on the dive and has to stage back up

through ompression. The parents of the freed American soldier, Bowe

Bergdahl, has yet to talk to their son. How does a person return to the

world after five years incarceration at gun point. A

world after five years incarceration five years by FARC guerrillas is

here. Kirsty Allsop is here five years by FARC guerrillas is

defend the idea that better to get their breeding done

early. Well the

early. will be held in Qatar, at least that

is how it is tonight, but will be held in Qatar, at least that

of yesterday's revelations by the Sunday Times that the extraordinary

decision to hold the contest in place where summer temperatures are

high enough to fry an egg on a crossbar, that decision may have had

something to do with money being splashed about, have cast the whole

thing into doubt. Any decision about whether to have a re-think will have

to wait for a proper inquiry. But there is a very bad

to wait for a proper inquiry. But The golden prize, not winning the

tournament, but the chance to host it.

Can I ask you one quick question? : The tiny Arab country Qatar does not

want to discuss it. We haven't an official response, that's why?

Minister? A torrent of claims alleges they paid millions to

football officials to buy the bid. Now an investigation is

football officials to buy the bid. that could, the Prime Minister

hinted, result in the vote being rerun. That could lead to England

having another chance to host the tournament, because its failed bid

for 2018 was part of the same messy process. I will never forget the

meetings we wept to the lobbying we did, it was like no other election I

have been involved in, because every single person we met, whether the

head of the FA, in this part of the world or that part of the world,

they all said, yes of course we're going to vote for England to host

the World Cup. And then they voted completely the other way and we

ended up with one vote, but any way we will see what happens with this

inquiry into the World Cup. Who knows what the chances may be for

the future. The allegations claim that the former FIFA official, was

lobbying on his country's behalf more than a year before the decision

was made. And that he made payments into bank accounts controlled by the

Presidents of 30 African Football Associations and a former Vice

President of FIFA. The claims have been denied, and FIFA's own

investigator, American lawyer, Michael Garcia, has promised his

report into the affair will be complete next week. I don't think

there is any choice for FIFA other than if it is going to restore its

credibility it has to do so by reholding that bidding process, but

also there has to be questions about the governance of the game by FIFA

and whether Mr Blatter is a fit and proper person to continue to oversee

that process. It has to be completely independent of those

people who have been involved before. A senior source at FIFA told

me the allegations are horrific, but that Bin Hamam was trying to run a

campaign to replace Sepp Blatter at the same time. Was he trying to

improve his own prospects not the Qatar bid. Another industry insider

said without question if the FIFA investigation shows direct evidence

of rigging the process, there will have to be another vote. FIFA's

investigator isn't just looking at the behaviour of the Qataries, they

have also been here, talking to those who promoted England's

ultimately doomed bid for 2018. But whether or not they do provide

enough direct evidence that Qatar's World Cup was bought and sold,

reopening the bidding process would not be straight forward. FIFA will

do everything they can to resist it, because one of the consequences of a

rebuilding is that a potential breakaway from FIFA, a potential

disintegration if the disaffected parties, particularly Qatar and

perhaps African federations implicated might decide they don't

want to participate any more. If the sense of objections swell, Qatar may

never complete its swanky stadiums, if not... What would it say about

the state of the game if the tournament in Qatar goes ahead?

Dead. Dead? Dead as a viable and honourable and esteemable sport at

international level. It has to be changed now. This mess begs a wider

question too, how can the contest to host international sporting events,

with billions of bounds worth of prestige ever be genuine. If some

countries are prepared to flout the rules. One source familiar with the

process said to me, if you are running against a country that is

not democratic, there is no point. They can do whatever they want. They

are, unaccountable. The England team now must concentrate on the game as

they prepare for Brazil. But FIFA has much more than the next few

weeks of football to concern them. We have a former member of FIFA's

independent governance committee, which was set up to make the

organisation more transparent, she resigned last year after FIFA failed

to adopt many of her proposelias. How significant do you proposals.

How significant do you -- proposals. How significant are these

allegations? I think there is a lot of suspicion about the process and

the Qatar decision ultimately. This level of documentation and evidence,

if shown to be authentic, is stunning. We don't know and it is

yesterday to be established whether there is any connection between what

seems to have been done and what the Government of Qatar wanted? We have

to accept that don't we? Sure, that's true and an important step in

all of this, but a bribe is transactional, it is between two

different parties. Regardless of who Bin Hamam was working for, if all of

these allegations are turning out to be true someone was on the other

side of it. Those people are senior in the FIFA establishment. You know

this organisation, why is it so ghastly? It is a surprising

organisation in many ways, but when you have an enormous and wealthy

nonprofit like this, you don't have the shareholders to keep it honest

as you would in a completion. -- corporation. You can have governance

and we didn't have much Luke from that, or governance by the host,

Switzerland is not showing much on there. And the sponsors have seemed

pretty indifferent to the issues. So the Swiss should be keeping an eye

on FIFA should they? Well they are the host country and organisations

within Switzerland are governed by Swiss law. Absolutely. That would be

the obvious choice. How could it be changed then? Well, again, if the

Swiss Government weighs in and starts paying more attention to the

Swiss law as it applies to its own nonprofit -- non--profits, or if

there is a ground well that reaches out to the sponsors I think we could

see change there. I don't think we should wait for FIFA to reform

itself. You didn't wait, you voted with your feet, you resigned, why? I

did. It was not a very fruitful undertaking I have to say. I was

very enthusiastic at the outset, I thought it was a process that was

both intriguing and very welcome by FIFA. Very few organisations set out

to establish a group like our's and then reject their recommendations.

And although some of the recommendations were ultimately

accepted, many were rejected. It just wasn't a good use of time in

the end. There are organisations that are inseer in their reform

efforts. So let's be clear about this, FIFA set you up as an

organisation to keep them honest, and when they didn't like some of

the things you said, you had to quit? Well, it was a surprising

conclusion to the process for me as well. We drafted a large number of

recommendation, many of them very ordinary good governance

recommendations and many were rejected outright. They cherrypicked

through and took several, but most were rejected. As far as the Qatar,

World Cup, 2022 bid is concerned now, what ought to happen? What

ought to happen and what will happen are probably different things. What

ought to happen is to restore international confidence in the

process, I do think they need to re-run the vote. I don't think there

is any avoiding that now if the ultimate goal is the confidence of

the public. We have a series of scandals, and I'm just not sure how

much longer the stakeholders are expected to accept scandal after

scandal. It needs to come to an end. Whether that will happen is another

question. Thank you very much for joining us.

Laura is here, our chief correspondent. You have got some

more news what can we expect to happen next? As was said this is

dreadful for FIFA, but it is not the first time there have been

allegations of what happened in Qatar. This incredible tumble of

information out there now is capping off allegations of corruption that

have already been made. And huge concerns about workers building the

stadiums in Qatar and what is going on with that. But it appears it

would be very risky financially and hugely inconvenient to unpick the

mess. We have been talking to sources at some of the European

clubs. Clubs have huge power in football, it is not just about the

international organisations. It has been suggested to us something

rather different that some inside FIFA may look for a way of wriggling

out of the Qatar mess. There is the physical problem of holding the

tournament in temperatures of over 40 degrees, for players and fans to

be fainting in the heat. The clubs are adamant that the tournament

cannot be moved to the winter, that not financially viable to them and

it would bust up the business model of the Premiership here and cause

problems in the other countries. Holding it in the summer would be a

farce, because of that there is a growing sense that while these kinds

of allegations in the short-term are very painful, in the long-term this

could start to look like a way of FIFA actually digging themselves out

of the hole that this whole bid mess created.

The king of Spain has decided to hang up his crown, the man chosen as

Head of State by the departing fascist ruler, General Franco, has

suffered ill-health and scandal and has had enough. Voluntary abdication

because you are getting on would have been unthinkable for centuries,

and not least because people drop dead a lot earlier than they do

nowadays. It has happened recently in Belgium, Holland and now Spain,

raising among some a question of whether Elizabeth the English Queen

and the gold standard in British monkeys Monarchies might resign.

What has been the reaction to this news.

It is a big moment, as can you imagine, this is a royal house that

has experienced plenty of abdications, five previous ones, as

you just said this is a time of abdications. The third in the space

of 14 months in Europe. Little couldn'ter then that thousands did

take to the streets this evening demanding a vote on the future of

the monarchy itself, a Republican demonstration calling for the

scrapping of the institution. But that said, although some polls

recently had shown something like 80% of Spanish saying that King Juan

Carlos should step down, the institution of monarchy remains

subject to majority support here. Most people want it to continue.

There could be many reasons for that, not least the fact that it is

felt to have played a transformative function during his regin, which has

now lasted nearly four decades. Almost everywhere history has

relegated royals to the role of decorative players. As the old

dictator General Franco faded away he gave the House of Burbon one last

chance to captain the state. Juan Carlos became the custodian of

Spain's transition back to democracy. And it was a fleeting

role, because once parliamentary institutions were restored, his

powers were soon clipped. But it wasn't a free ride. ??FORCEDWHI A

Colonel tried to mount a coup. And against this blatant adventurism as

well as a host of other challenges, the king stood fast. I wasn't afraid

for Spain because I knew what the whole majority of the Armed Forces

and the people in general wanted, and really needed for me to do that

night. Having served his purpose Juan Carlos settled back into the

more usual royal routine, attending royal weddings, visiting the sick,

and presiding over state occasions. His popularity held out for many

years, people even forgave the reported affairs. But it was

austerity that did for him. I think he is tired, psychologically, he has

been trying to improve his image, and he hasn't succeeded, he has just

given up. As simple as that. There aren't many leaders for whom an

elephant in the room becomes their literal nemesis. But photos of Juan

Carlos hunting big game may have given the death wound to his regin.

Not only had he been he will telling reporters how he felt the pain of

Spain's unemployed, but he has also championed wildlife conservation. So

a regin that began in 1975, which such constitutional and political

importance, ends in a series of tabloid scandals. Spain faces all

manner of crises now, not least getting the procedure right for his

son to take over. Today Juan Carlos told his nation

that he would hand power to his son, who the House trusts will find it

easier to play the part of austerity Monarch. TRANSLATION: Today a new

generation must lead, younger people with more energy, determined to push

through with the reforms we need and face our future challenges. I have

only ever wanted to contribute to the welfare of ordinary Spaniards, I

want the best for this country. He's a man in his mid-40s, fresh,

untainted by the scandals affecting his family. But at the same time

he's someone that is not that well known, he hasn't been under the

spotlight that often. Let's say he has the potential to become very

popular, but in a way it is still an enigma. The worst of all for him is

he will face the country at a moment of huge crisis of different sorts,

economic, political, constitutional and well it is a challenge that is

really difficult. While Juan Carlos was unpopular here there is no

overwhelming desire of public, the House of Bush Bonn -- Burbon might

just get a chance of ention and a new king.

Paul Preston is with us, you wrote a book back Juan Carlos didn't you? I

did. The text on the subject? So he says! How important a figure do you

think history will judge him to be? Fantastic. I mean there really

aren't words to describe in retrospect how he will be seen. I

don't want to say he made democracy. The pressure came from the Spanish

people. But what he did in terms of neutralising the army in the course

of 1976 to make it possible for there to be the transactions and the

negotiations that brought about what is actually quite a limited

transition in the first instance. That was immensely courageous, and

then after the first elections in 1977, over the next four years he

acted as fireman of democracy. And until, which we have just seen, the

defeat of the coup in 1981, he was absolutely the key plan. I think it

is fair to say without him there would have very likely been

bloodshed. Despite the errors, and the ending of a glorious regin, I

think history will treat him very benevolently. You look at the

pictures of protest against him in Spain, and clearly a lot of people

have forgotten that? There is a couple of issues here, first of all

there is a generational thing. A lot of people who were born,

35-year-olds were born when he was already king, and if you look at the

polls, the support amongst people who are 35 and below for the

monarchy is around about the 40% more, as against the 65% mark more

generally. We need to remember that five years ago it was in the 80s. So

there has been a fall. The problem is that the king as the pinnacle of

the political system, in the first instance was, if you like, splashed

by the mud that was going on because of the massive discontent as a

result of the economic crisis. It then hit him personally the biggest

thing behind the demos, not directly against the king or monarchy, they

are against the political system. But the political system is riddled

with corruption, right from municiple level to the top. And the

king was associated with it. Once it hit his family personally, once

investigations started into his son-in-law then that hit him. That

since, combined with a general weariness on his part, and of course

the issue you about the German Princess, about the elephant hunting

and so on and so forth. That is personal? It is personal but in

Spain it is very odd. There was a point in Mark's report where he

referred that he managed to get over the fact of many affairs. The

Spaniards are worse than the French in this regard, or better, it

depends the way you look at it. They don't give a damn about the sexual

life of their male leaders. But the sense that money was being wasted or

money changing hands in a corrupt manner, which has to be proved but

the generalised feeling that was the case has caused part of the problem.

Can we reappraise Franco for the fact that he chose this man,

cleverly by your account in the transition to democracy, Franco

chose him for the job? Absolutely not. He chose him and trained them.

Effectively Juan Carlos was kidnapped age 10 and taken to Spain

to be trained in FAUNGS. In the meanwhile Franco played with various

royal candidates and he chose Juan Carlos to humiliate the legitimate

king who was his father. That was the first dirty trick he did. The

second thing is Franco trained Juan Carlos in order to maintain the

dictatorship. What is truly remarkable and courageous about him

is he betrayed Franco and the old system. Technically he didn't. There

was an immensely clever arrangement whereby very, very clever

constitutional lawyers, if you like, worked out ways to wriggle through

Franco's constitutional arrangement, that there by made it possible for

him to seem to fulfil the oaths he had taken. He did absolutely what

Franco did not want him to do. His family seems delighted, presumably

he is too, but the circumstances under which US army Sergeant Bowe

Bergdahl came to be freed after five years in Taliban captivity have set

off a furious spat. They demonstrate unambiguously about how all that

talk about the United States not negotiating with hostage takers is

so much hot air, it does and it did. In exchange of five of what the US

claim to be the most dangerous men in the world have been freed. In

addition to that there is the small matter of how Sergeant Bergdahl came

to be captured in the first place. Release me, please, I'm begging you,

bring me home. For five years a steady drip of Taliban videos

provided the link to America's only prisoner of war. Please. Bring me

home. Five years of moral dilemma between two American promises,

"leave no man behind" and "we don't negotiate with terrorists". The

military motto won, Bowe Bergdahl is coming home. But while there is

celebrations in his home town were the yellow ribbons were tied

awaiting his return and where the balloons now fly, that difficult

choice has consequences. An emotional reunion in Qatar between

the Taliban and their five senior commanders, held for more than ten

years in Guantanamo Bay. Their release described as a big victory

by the Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Omar in a rare public statement. And

so the battle moves to America. And for control of the political

narrative. A President, flanked by two

delighted parents. Sergeant Sergi has missed birthdays and holidays

and a simple moment with family and friends which all of us take for

granted, but while Bowe was gone, he was never forgotten. With these

prisoners of war exchanged as Afghan operations wind down, or as

President Obama's opponents believe, was it a deal done with terrorists

in a global war on terror, that America is still fight. We are all

grateful he is returned. There are legitimate questions about these

individuals who are being released and the conditions under way they

will be released. These are the hardest of the hardcore. These are

the highest high-risk people. And others that we have released have

gone back into the fight. That has been documented. There is

uncertainty about how Bowe Bergdahl was captured. It has some here

asking if he was a hero or deserter. And whether America should have paid

such a high price for his return. I was behind a patrol, I was lagging

behind the patrol and I was captured. But colleagues say there

was no patrol, that he left the base of his own accord, leaving his

helmet and body armour behind. The last e-mail to his parents before

his disappearance indicated his state of mind. "These people need

help... " It is this controversy, personal and

political that Bowe Bergdahl will return to once he's well enough. His

parents fought for his freedom and will now have to help him readjust

to it. You are free, freedom is yours. I will see you soon my

beloved son, I love you. He has been gone so long that it will be very

difficult to come back. It is like a diver going deep on a dive and has

to stage back up through recompression, to get the nitrogen

bubbles out of the system. If he comes up too fast it could kill him.

Last month his father Bob spoke to the Guardian, recording on video the

pain of waiting for a son to come home. I wake up each morning and my

first thought is my son is still a prisoner of war in Afghanistan. This

is where Bowe grew up, learned to hunt. This winter camp was built in

case he was released. We set this up for him, hoping he would get home

this winter, maybe he will need a place to stay. And kind of recover.

His father has let his beard grow, has learned some Pashtu, campaigned

relentlessly for his release and given some insight into why his son

joined the military. I know it was Bow, he's motivation to help these

people, it is how the war is shaped in the mind of a lot of Americans.

Is that we are there as some kind of peace corp with guns. That is just

an impossible mission. It is a mission we are not very good at I

believe. The last decade proves that. There is excitement and

anticipation about his home coming, they care little here about talks

with the Taliban, US-Afghan relations and the political cost to

President Obama or America, just the son that's coming home. We have the

light up there that we turned on when Bowe was first captured, we

have it had on ever since, we are going to let him turn that off.

We're joined now by a woman held captive by the Colombian FARC

movement for six years. What will he be feeling this released young man?

I think he's probably of course filled with joy. But also with fear.

He must be fearing to come back to a world that he doesn't know any more.

Feeling that he doesn't belong any more. Because he has become so

accustomed to the narrow confines of the world that he has been living

in? No it is because the problem of the time. Five years makes you, he

knows that he has missed many of the things that had happened in his

family. That probably the people he knew are not the same, or probably

some have died. That the world's going to come back to is not the

same t has changed. And also because he will have to try to find another

way of living. How is he likely to have been changed by the experience?

In many, many ways probably the first thing he will notice is that

the relationship he has with his family, which will be like the

standard, where he will want to come back to, will have changed because

he will have probably difficulties to trust. One of the problems when

you are abducted is you are confronted on a daily basis that

with people who are lying to you. So it becomes to you like normal or

natural just to always be very sceptical and always you know have

this trust problem. I suppose that he will have also to bear the fact

that his own suffering will be put in balance with the suffering of his

family and that's something that is always traumatic N a way there is

this kind of discussion of who suffered the most. If you were going

to give advice, if you were asked, I know you wouldn't give it otherwise,

but if you were asked to give advice to him or his family what would it

be? I think the key is love, you know. It is very difficult, in those

situations everything is so fragile and I think that if the intention is

love then things get slowly into place. Is it possible there might

even be things that he would miss from his captivity? Not at the first

moment, I would say, that in the first years he will just be so happy

to be out of there. But afterwards, he might be like thinking over on

what he lived and bringing back things that became important for him

and it will give him another perspective. Not that he won't want

to go back, but in a way that he will evaluate or assess for example

the ability to be alone, to reflect on things and to meditate. After

all, and your horrible experience being held captive for all those

years you say you thank God for it? Yes. Why? Because I think that in my

case it was an opportunity to grow. In many ways to mature. But those

grow spiritually, to try to understand myself i think I

discovered myself in the jungle with the good and bad things that I

wanted to change. Thank you very much, thank you. What do we tell our

daughters, our friends about how to live their lives. The editor of

Cosmopolitan magazine allegedly claimed that women could have

careers, everything and orgasams. But a female reader has discovered,

one after another, that the one thing you can have, is advice in

abundance. Now comes along is Her Poshness Kirsty Allsop says they

need to get it in the right order, have your children while you can

rather than when your career will allow

rather than when your career will Apart from the dangers of male

colleagues that remain, this scene is not quite as routine as it once

was. Family life came first, to such distractions as university for young

women. Since distractions as university for young

changed dramatically. Women are now more likely than men to go to

university. And that is reflected in the age women are choosing to have

children. From 23 in the late 1960s to nearly 30 now. Women may be

having it all, but probably not all at the same time. Property expert

and presenter Kirsty Allsop says women need to prioritise. The period

of time we can get married and children, but as a woman your

fertility drops off the cliff aged 35. Today the self-described

feminist went further talking to the Telegraph, she says the advice she

would give to her own hypothetical daughter was let's get you in flat,

find you a nice boyfriend and you can have a baby by the time you are

27. There was an eruption. What was so wrong with the advice about women

choosing their own vocation, vocation, vocation. We are ajoined

by Kirsty and Holly the editor of Vagenda magazine. What do you make

of the advice? I find it slightly depressing. What is sad about it is

that you say you know you have this hypothetical daughter, growing up in

a society that makes it difficult to be a mother viae a career and do

university and things so, I would ask her to change her life around,

and what I find depressing about that is I really want society to

change. I want us to campaign for things like paternity leave to be

extended, and for flexible working hours. I don't want women's lives to

have to change. There is one thing Holly that is really difficult in

all of this. I want exactly what you want, all of those things, but

nature is not with you and I. Nature is not a feminist. This one factor

about the fertility window is the only thing that I was addressing and

discussing. Go to university, have a career, do what makes you happy,

travel, write, do whatever you want, but be aware of the fertility window

and make your choices in an informed way. And this fertility window has

been a taboo topic, people have not discussed it. And that's the issue,

we can't change it. That issen unarguable fact, fertility does go

over a cliff as you put it by the time, from about mid-30s on wards?

If you have a fertility problem you don't know about it and you hit 35

and go into forms of treatment that is very difficult. That is a

biological fact? It is also that two people make a baby and why should be

a woman considering. Because only the woman is affected by the

fertility problem? Why shouldn't the man leave university as well. Holly

is quite right, that is what I said in the article, that is why today

has particularly enraged me, I have been condemned for saying it, people

haven't read the whole interview. I have! In the interview I said if I

had a son of 26 in a loving relationship with someone, I would

say to him, address the topic of what you both want for your future.

It is important that men understand about the fertility window just the

same as women. Because it impacts them. They want to be parents. And

if they don't want to be parents they need to say, sorry, that is not

what I want right now, this isn't for me. We need to be more honest,

as women to each other and as parents to our children. Because the

heartache of interfillity, we have all seen it, we -- infertility, we

have all friends who have failed to understand this window because women

haven't been honest with other women because we have lots of things we

still have to achieve and there is lots of things that women still

struggle to get on equal terms. So this topic has been taboo. You must

have come across women who have struggled with this? Personally what

I come across more often with the Vagenda is people telling me they

are constantly reminded in the media about their fertility, about their

biological clock ticking, about how they should choose between a career

and a child and how that should be mutually exclusive. To me, I know

this isn't something you are opposed to. It is not mutually exclusive,

but it is a biological argument? I do think the clock is ticking but I

don't see how it changes into you changing your life. Especially not

only for a woman, or a daughter. If I had a daughter I would say to her

think about it, it is her personal biological clock, it is her personal

fertility, she needs to discuss it with her partner obviously. We have

to reatraining our lives because we live so much longer, you know.

Nature has in one sense been beaten by us, we have added 20 years to our

life span in the last 100 years and yet we haven't been able to alter,

in any way, that fertility women, because women are born with their

eggs, they are desperate to get out from the age of 14, by the time you

are 35 they have been trying to get out for 20 years? Definitely, but

there is so much pressure by the media women are so aware of it, and

they are hold to be hypera-- told to be hyperaware of it. There is this

structural problem with women not being able to have babies and

careers. The real priority is to make sure that we have those things

in place that they can. We shouldn't be telling women only to be

responsible. I know this isn't exactly what you said as well. But

women only to be responsible. Did you reorganise your life? I was very

lucky Jeremy, because I was desperate for children from a very

early age and nobody was interested. Absolutely not. When I met my

partner was 32 and he knew that I wanted children and we had them

sooner than would have been ideal. So it worked out for you? Only just.

But it did work out? It did, but I was lucky. The thing I'm really

adamant about, make your choices, don't let, as Holly said, don't let

society dictate, but make your choices in an informed way. If we

say to women it is OK, it is OK, wait, waiting wait we are denying

those women who want children, and there are many who don't, and that

is a very important issue, this is not for everyone. But those who know

at an early stage they want children, they need to look at all

the choices available and say should I reorder the choices in order to

reflect that the only window closing is my fertility window, my education

and career window is not closing. Including the men they are with?

Yes, of course. There are reckoned to be thousands of young people in

gangs in London, when I say young I mean the average age of being a

member of one of these gangs on first conviction is 15. Today law

enforcement officials from both sides of the Atlantic met to pool

ideas about how to combat the lure of gang life and how to limit its

damage. Older guys told us how to do things, how to beef, how to make

money. Don't leave your boy, don't run, don't snitch, don't get caught.

JT Jumps Off, the story of one gang member in London was a Newsnight

report replayed today at City Hall for a summit on what to do about

gangs. London has turned a corner with gang crime, at least that's the

climb Boris Johnson and the Met are instrument pet, but it is an odd

form of success where nearly 20 young people were shot or stabbed

every week in the capital last year. Are the Met doing enough to help the

young men and women taught caught up in the -- caught up in the gangs and

would the gang members really trust them. SGLP this year the inquest

into Mark Duggan's death flared into angry name calling, a window into

tensions between the police and some communities in London. But the

police were found to have acted legally in that case, but they are

still under a cloud, embarrassed by revelations that officers sold

information to newspapers and tried to bring down the cabinet minister,

Andrew Mitchell. And today came another blow as the IPCC said it

will investigate claims of discreditable conduct over police

handling of the Stephen Lawrence murder inquiry. Plenty to talk about

with the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Bernard

Hogan-Howe. Will you ever rid the streets of gangs? Never completely.

One of the things I found was there was a huge problem when I arrived

three years ago. And there is still a problem. What worried me was the

amount of crime driven by relatively small groups of people. All the

people I talked to told me there was a gang people, and yet we the police

hadn't acknowledged it. The first thing was to acknowledge the problem

and try to do something about it. Do you understand why some young men

carry knives? I understand why they say they carry them, I can never

defend it myself. You don't agree with carrying a knife but you

understand how they may wish to? I can't show anybody knit sympathy for

somebody who carries knives. I'm asking for understanding? I'm not

going to understand it, my advice to them is not to carry knives. We will

do our best to get them out of the lifestyle and arrest the people

involved. But you can never give any sympathy to people who carry knives.

Do you think you are getting to the girls involved in gangs? I think

that is hard e quite often the girls are victims, it is not always true,

they are used as couriers for drugs as they are thought to receive a

lesser sentence, that is not true. The other way they are victims is

traded as sexual playthings around the gangs, that is where they are

particularly vulnerable. Are you making as much progress with girls

as boys? I don't think it is as profound, there is more to do there.

The girls seem as though they have got into the culture themselves of

not realising their victims and they are seeks acceptance. I have think

we have far more to do but both are important. What are the policing

issues that keep awe you awake tonight? The gangs and the amount of

crime that they are involved in. We haven't resolved it yet it will take

probably a decade of working hard in a careful way. What are the other

issues that worry you? We have to think about in London about counter

terrorism issues. Obviously we have the threat that people are aware of

in terms of Syria and the young men generally who have gone away to

Syria. How dangerous is that, young men going to Syria and not coming

back? We have seen reports over the last week where there was an attack

in Belgium where it was suspected the person had been in Syria,s if

that is a sign of things to come that is a worry. It could be if we

see large numbers arriving back together, depending on how the war

ends. We will have to be concerned about that. Our big concern is a

large group of people who are brutalised and have access to other

people in a similar frame of mind and may be determined to take

political action. You must worry about this, the general standing of

the police, something has happened to the relationship between much of

the society and the police force. The police are no longer seen as

friends, they are no longer seen as trustworthy in many communities, I'm

not just talking here about criminal communities, but in parts of society

there are things that have happened that have made people think "the

bloody police", do you worry about that? We do, although I'm not sure

as you have described it, overstates it. Hillsborough, the police made up

evidence, they frame a cabinet minister in the plan gate affair --

plebgate affair, how much more do d'oh we need as -- do we need as

proof that things are wrong in the police? If you span 0 years and look

at journalism and health, how much other issues when looking over 30

years there would be worries. There is special duties belonging to the

police? Ly on to that, we have high standards and the police should keep

to them. We should all be shocked when those standards are not kept.

If we look at things like surveys, the confidence in the police is

high. If you look at the evidence going through the courts system, it

is rare for police evidence to be doubted. I think there are some

things that should reassure us, where there are things have gone

wrong it is vital to get to the bottom and put it right. That's all

we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night.

we have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all we

have time for tonight, until tomorrow, good night. That's all

NSMIT Good There will be lengthy dry spells and

breaking through western areas, but more widely through the afternoon.

So some decent weather to be had