Browse content similar to 12/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello from New York, the Iraq Government's frantic appeal to the | :00:00. | :00:12. | |
United States for military help against the Islamist guerrillas who | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
captured two of the country's key cities is formally under | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
consideration by the White House. But the former Secretary of State, | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
Hillary Clinton, says the only reasonable answer at this stage is a | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
resounding no. No, I agree with the White House's resection and | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
reluctance to do the kind of military activities that the Mall | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
Government is requesting, namely fighter aircraft. We hear from | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
Hillary Clinton why Putin is dangerous and why Scotland ought to | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
stay in the union and whether women would run the world better than men, | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
and of course, on whether she will run for the White House herself. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
How would America have been different if you had beaten Obama to | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
the White House? (Laughs) I don't know. And we will never know. You | :01:05. | :01:16. | |
must care? We will never know Jeremy. We will talk about America's | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
place in the world with two people who should be concerned, and we will | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
talk about the Prime Minister of free Iraq. | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
# Ain't no valley low enough # Ain't no river wide enough | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
She just put down the book she was reading and walked the entire length | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
of the law library and said. If you are going to keep looking at me and | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
me looking back, we better know each other. I'm not some little woman | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
standing by her man like Tammy Wynette. I could have fulfilled my | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
profession which I entered before my husband was in public life. I have | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
so many opportunities from this country, I just don't want to see us | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
fall backwards. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him. | :02:15. | :02:27. | |
The United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama Bin | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
Laden, the leader of Al-Qaeda. Wait you want me to tell you what my | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
husband thinks, he's not the Secretary of State, I am. Now, until | :02:39. | :02:50. | |
last year the latest crisis in Iraq would have been another problem for | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama took office | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
promising to end the war on Iraq, well he has certainly withdrawn | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
plenty of US troops, but the war in Iraq has suddenly got a whole lot | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
worse, the threat from radical Islam may have been greatly exaggerated | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
when George W Bush invaded there, but it is real enough right now. In | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
the last few days radical Islamists have taken two important cities. I | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
have been to see Hillary Clinton, who has just written her account as | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
time as America's top diplomat. Mrs Clinton, the Government of Iraq is | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
said to be appealing to the United States for help in fighting the | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
problem that it has got with Islamic insurgents. Should military help be | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
given? Not at this time, no. I agree with the White House's rejection and | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
reluctance to do the kind of military activities that the Mall | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
Government is requesting, namely fighter aircraft to provide close | :03:54. | :04:03. | |
support for -- Almeria Government to provide fighter aircraft to vied to | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
provide the support. Nouri Al-Maliki has to show he's prepared to do the | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
job. The army which hasn't been able to hold territory had an injection | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
of discipline, something the United States has been trying to help with, | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
Nouri Al-Maliki has to be prepared to demonstrate unequiffly that he's | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
a leader for all Iraqis not a sectarian slice of the country. But | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
the White House is saying no option is ruled out? That's what they | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
should say, because part of what they are trying to do. You think | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
they should rule some things out? At this time, yes. Because the | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
conditions precedent have not been accepted or set by Nouri Al-Maliki. | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
What the White House is doing is making it very clear to him what | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
they would have to say, and not that they would necessarily provide the | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
kind of support he is asking for, but the sort of the support that the | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
United States believes would be appropriate. But it would be | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
inappropriate to send in ground forces of any kind? Yes, that is not | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
going to happen. Never, under any circumstances? I never say never, | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
because one doesn't know the world is so unpredictable. But certainly | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
not in any foreseeable future that I'm aware of. When you look at what | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
is happening in Iraq do you feel guilty supporting the invasion? I | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
made a mistake giving the Bush administration the authority I voted | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
for. It was not used as I expected it to be used and the entire | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
implementation strategy was flawed. So, yes, I made a mistake, and I | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
deeply regret the consequences. That country wasn't broken before the | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
invasion? It was a broken country, even though it had a dictator. Who | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
held it together? Hoi who by force and brutally would keep it together. | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
He had invaded Kuwait and gassed the Kurds. He was no shining example of | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
sovereignty and territorial integrity. Nobody suggests he was a | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
nice guy. He was worse than not a nice guy. But that is not the | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
debate. The debate now is it was done, the invasion occurred, he was | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
deposed, the Iraqi people were given a chance to chart a different | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
course, some of them have done quite well, the Kurds in the north have | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
done extremely well. But the Government that came in through the | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
elections, which were deemed internationally acceptable has not | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
done what it needed to do to try to unify the country, bring Sunni and | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
Shi'ite alike, bring the different factions within together. Compare | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
Iraq, where there was intervention, with Syria where there was no | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
intervention? Just shows you how hard it is to make these choice, | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
which is why I'm calling the book Hard Choices, because I did advocate | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
for limited but focussed action in Syria to try to vet, train and equip | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
moderate opponents of Assad. And you were overruled by the President? I | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
was overruled, in part because of the lessons from Iraq. It is hard to | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
get a little bit pregnant, so to speak, in being involved in these | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
countries' internal conflicts, but I did think there was a potential | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
role. Now of course, what I say in the book was a wicked problem has | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
become even wickedier. How much was the decision not to get involved in | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
Syria influenced by the fact that the British parliament held that | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
surprising vote not to have any military intervention? I'm sure that | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
influenced it, because that vote was some days prior to the President | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
having to make a final decision, and it was, there was a series of votes | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
as I recall what happened in the British parliament. The individual | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
votes were defeated, but if you had added up all the votes for | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
everything that would have been a positive, you could have gotten to | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
that, but for all kinds of reasons and I don't pretend to understand | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
the intricacies of British politics or parliamentary procedure, it was a | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
defeat for the idea that there should be intervention. And that | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
influenced the American decision not to intervene? I believe it did. I | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
was out of office by then, but it is my understanding that it certainly | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
was taken into account. Can we talk a little about Russia. You famously | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
pressed the "reset" button, are you embarrassed now by that gesture? No, | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
I thought it was a brilliant stroke, which in retrospect appears even | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
more so, look at what we accomplished, between the Russian | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
invasion of Georgia in August 2008, which of course torpedoed relations | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
between the United States and Russia for good reason. We come into office | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
and for that period of time if you will, Medvedev is President and | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
Putin is Prime Minister. There were jobs we wanted to get done. We | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
wanted to get Russia on board with tough sanctions against Iran. We | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
wanted to have a new start treaty and limit nuclear weapons. We wanted | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
their help in transiting across their huge country to get things | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
into Afghanistan. We got all that done. Putin comes back, look where | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
we are now. He invaded another country. So yes, while we had that | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
moment we seized it, we used it and succeeded. Do you think Putin is a | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
dangerous man? He can be. Is he a man who exploits weakness? I think | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
he acts out of his perceived weakness of Russia. I believe his | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
goal is to reassert Russian power, he would be perfectly happy if t | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
Soviet Union could be reconstituted, but he's enough of a realist to know | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
that is not going to happen. He wants to in so far as possible | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
control Soviet Republics in central Asia and intimidate those in Europe. | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
Like any person, of course, with a view that's what power should be | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
used for, if he sees weakness or disorder, because I think he was as | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
affected by what he perceived as disorder in Ukraine than by | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
weakness, he acted in large measure because of what happens happening in | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
Maiden Square, of course he will explore the boundaries as far as he | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
can. You made some strong comments about Ukraine, but you would concede | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
that Ukraine is within Russia's sphere of influence? Of course I | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
would not. You wouldn't? There can't be spheres of influence in today's | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
world, particularly post World War ll. Not even the case of Cuba and | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
the United States? They are clearly not in our sphere of influence. I | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
talk about that in the book, let's end the embargo and go back with | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
them. Russia wants a sphere of influence, that is what this is all | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
about, Georgia don't you dare choose as a sovereign nation that you | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
wouldn't to look toward Europe. He has legitimate concerns doesn't he? | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
No he does not, think of the energy he is using to plot and compeer | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
against the freedom that -- conspire against the freedom the people have | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
gained because of the fall of the Soviet Union. Russia could be a | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
truly great country, not a bullying country, not totally dependant on | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
oil and gas and using it to intimidate its neighbours but he has | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
made a different voice choice, and it is regrettable for Russia. Every | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
country has vital interests doesn't it? Absolutely. Isn't the security | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
of Ukraine a vital interest for Russia? No it is not. I mean Ukraine | :11:33. | :11:42. | |
is a customer for Gazprom, Ukraine has Russian ethnic, Russian | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
speakers, so there are cultural connections, but Ukraine became an | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
independent country. Of course Russia can try to partner with | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
Ukraine, but Russia should not feel that it can give orders to Ukraine, | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
and if Ukraine doesn't abide by those orders it can take aggressive | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
action. That is not acceptable. When you were running American foreign | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
policy, you must have thought what are America's vital interests here, | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
and you must have thought about something else. Now at the time the | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
British were the imperial power in the world someone like Palmerston | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
could have given you a one-sentence definition about what the British | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
Empire was about. What is America about in the world now? We are | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
certainly not about an empire, we never have been about an empire, it | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
is one of the very important differences that sets us apart. We | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
do take military action as you know, and then we go back home. But what | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
we are about is promoting our values, absolutely. I believe there | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
should be a contest of values. If Russia believes its system is better | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
than the west's, that Ukraine should not be part of the European Union, | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
getting to make choices for itself, let the people of Ukraine hear both | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
sides, and figure out what they want to do, not have it imposed. I hope | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
what we can return to is that kind of debate about the future in the | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
21st century. The United States will certainly be a vigorous proponent of | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
what we believe and want to see happen. How would you summarise what | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
the vital interests and values are? It starts with security, number one | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
for any Government, we need to protect our people and friends and | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
partners and allies around the world. Secondly we have to promote | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
global prosperity and a rules-based order that needs to be updated to | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
fit the modern conditions in the global economy, to promote | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
broad-based inclusive prosperity. Thirdly, we want to promote and | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
protect human rights, we think that is part of our DNA, our mission. So | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
when you look at our promotion of our values, our pursuit of our | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
interests, and the protection of our security, we have to all the time | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
try to figure out which is first, which is second and which is third | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
in every situation. You say in the book that there was a shift of | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
emphasis in American foreign policy, you are less preoccupied with what | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
Rumsfeld called "the old Europe", you are less preoccupied with the | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
transatlantic relationships and alliances and more preoccupied with | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
things going on in Asia and other parts of the world. Does that mean | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
that Europe is less important to you now than it used to be? No, I try to | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
make very clear in the book that I thought we needed to renew and | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
rebuild the important alliances that we have in Europe. Europe are our | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
partners of first resort. This is where we really live, however, when | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
I became Secretary of State I quickly learned that Asia thought | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
the Bush administration had totally neglected it. And we have vital | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
interests there. We have defence treaties, we have promised to defend | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
people. So it wasn't moving away from, it was pivoting towards | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
without losing the importance, because I went to Asian in February, | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
Europe in March and made the case from the very beginning. What about | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
the boring old cliche about the "special relationship" is that worth | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
anything nowadays? It is worth everything to me and our country, | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
I'm a big anglophile when it comes to special relationship, and partly | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
because I think we see the world very simply. I worked with two | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
foreign secretaries, one Labour, one Tory, I had so much in common with | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
both Ed Miliband David Miliband and William Hague. We can talk about | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
things in an easy fashion, despite political differences between them | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
and our own country, there was a base of understanding that is so | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
understanding. And comforting. Do you think the United States will be | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
enhanced or diminished in their relationship with the UK if we hold | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
a referendum on Europe. You are drawing me into dangerous waters. | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
You are clever enough to deal with it? That is a political decision at | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
the very core of it. Europe needs Britain, in my opinion. I think | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
Britain brings a perspective and experience that is very important to | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
Europe, especially post-economic crisis. So Britain will have to | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
decide if they agree with that. And what about whether Scotland is | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
intergrel to Britain? I would hate to have you lose Scotland. I got an | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
honourary degree from St Andrews. You are perfectly happy to interfere | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
in British politics on the question of the union, why not other matters? | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
I hope that it doesn't happen. I don't have a vote in Scotland, I | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
would hope it doesn't happen. Why? Because it just seems like. They are | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
entitled to their freedom as much as Ukraine? Well if there had been a | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
real referendum as opposed to a rump and intimidating event. It will be a | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
proper referendum? It will be because there is legal process | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
associated with it, we will see what the people of Scotland decide. You | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
know I would think it would be a loss for both sides, again I don't | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
have a vote. Can I ask you about your personal ambitions, you say in | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
the book you have not decided whether you are going to run for the | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
cy. Other factors are going to decide it for you what are the other | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
factors? They are both personal and political, I mean personally I'm | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
about to be a grandmother in the fall. I'm very excited about that. I | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
want to relish the experience, I don't want to be passing through it | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
and looking forward, I want to be right in the middle of it. A | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
presidential campaign, if one decides to do it is 24/7, | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
all-consuming, I'm not ready for that. The most important thing as I | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
say in the end of the book is not the questions, will you run? Or can | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
you win? What is your vision for America and can you lead it there? | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
We are going through one of our periodic, political mess, lots of | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
dysfunction, lots of finger-pointing, inability to reach | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
consensus and compromise. I want to be sure as I evaluate this decision | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
going forward that you know I, number one know where I want to lead | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
the country, and number two that I think I can make that happen. You | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
know that? I don't. You know what you can offer the country? I know in | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
general terms and I haven't said exactly what is my economic policy, | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
we are having a hard time creating jobs what are we actually going to | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
do about it and how can I put together the political coalition, | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
and unlikely partners to achieve that, I haven't done any of that | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
work. I have been focussed on writing the book and talking about | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
the foreign policy and national security issues. How would America | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
have been different if you had beaten Obama to the White House! | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
(Laughs) I don't know. And we will never know. You must care. Whether | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
you know is not quite the same as whether you care? I stopped caring, | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
when I lost and he won that was the end for me, I ended up actually | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
working for him. Do you think that is good for America, was it good for | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
America? Of course it was, are you kidding, absolutely. It was so | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
fortunate for me after the hard, long intense campaign that I got to | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
support somebody with whom I had so much in common, even though we had | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
differences, we agreed on much more than we disagreed on. I don't | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
rummate -- ruminate, I'm not sitting around and thinking about what might | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
have been, that is not my thought process. He won, I pledged my | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
support, I helped him in every way that I could, and he asked me to be | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
Secretary of State. It is a very unusual path, but one that I have | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
quite enjoyed. We are roughly the same sort of age. Oh good, you are | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
so young! Exactly, we are both past that great water mark, and I just | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
wonder why on earth anybody would want to go back into the White | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
House, given your experience of the torrid time you had there last time? | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
We got a lot done, I'm proud of what happened in the country and proud of | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
what President Obama has done. If you take the eight years of Bill | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
Clinton and Barack Obama, and you compare it to the eight years of | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
Regan, the eight years of Bush, the country was so much better off with | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
progressive energetic democratic Presidents, the economy was | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
stronger, our fiscal house was much better ordered. We are starting to | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
get healthcare, something you all take for granted. We did positive | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
things for the American people in those years. All the intrusion into | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
your personal life? I mean there is hardly anything left! It will make | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
for pretty boring reading if it continues! So that hasn't put you | :20:35. | :20:42. | |
off? No, no. It hasn't. In part because I have a pretty good idea | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
that this is a contact sport, as we say, politics in the United States | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
at the moment in our history is very rough and tumble because there are | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
big stakes. Unfortunately people sometimes engage in unsavoury, | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
negative name calling and the like. That is part of it, I understand | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
that. If you are not tough enough to get into that arena then truly you | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
should not even put your toe in, because it is quite a gauntlet. You | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
can hit me for asking you this? I may! Do you think you would ever | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
have become Secretary of State had you not been Mrs Clinton? | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that question ended when I ran for the | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
Senate. When I ran for the Senate and I ran first against a very | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
dominant figure, then mayor Guliani, then I ran against a young | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
Congressman with a lot more money rushing into his campaign. The fact | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
that the people of New York elected me ended that debate. I'm very | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
grateful that I learned a lot and I continue to learn from my husband's | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
political acumen and decision-making. I think what caused | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
the President, President Obama to ask me to be Secretary of State was | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
actually that campaign, because until you go through that sort of | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
ordeal and you know how hard it is for the other person, you don't know | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
what they are really made of, and the President told me, I watched you | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
under the most difficult circumstances and you are the person | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
I want to represent our country while I'm dealing with the economic | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
mess. I asked the question because while I'm dealing with the economic | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
there is a deficit of women at a high level in politics. I would be | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
very interested high level in politics. I would be | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
response to this, which is do you think women at the highest levels of | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
politics behave differently to men? I think that many do, I'm not going | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
to over-generalise and say all do. It is my experience working with | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
women heads of state and Government that on issues affecting family | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
life, children's well being, women's opportunities, there is a much | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
greater immediate recognition of the importance of those issues. Now that | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
again I say as a generalisation, and not all fit into that category. When | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
I sit down and talk with the President of Brazil, or the | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
President of Chile or the President of a country in Asia whether it be | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
Mrs Bhutto before ousted or assassinated or anything else, the | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
conversation about some of these social issues is very much embedded | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
in the political discourse, and an awareness of how hard a lot of the | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
decision making is for awareness of how hard a lot of the | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
today in many parts of the world. Hillary Clinton, thank you. Thank | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
you Jeremy. So where stands America in the world, Obama is being | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
increasingly criticised for not doing much in foreign affairs. Let's | :23:40. | :23:49. | |
see what the political columnists with me, let's see what they make of | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
it. Let's start with Iraq, she was pretty unambiguous, but a high-risk | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
game? She seemed frighteningly jolly throughout the whole interview, she | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
laughed an awful lot, didn't she. It was a tight laugh. But, her position | :24:05. | :24:12. | |
on Iraq is kind of surprising since she has been an interventionist at | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
almost every turn in the past. What do you deduce from that? That she's | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
running for President. That was going to be my next question? Let me | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
ask you what did you make of her position on Iraq? It is clear she's | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
running for President, she had a vote that she cast several years ago | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
that put her at odds with a lot of folks in her own party and I think | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
she's doing everything she can to protect her left flank and avoid a | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
substantial primary. But I think it is very clear from that interview | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
that she's running for President. You seem pretty certain, both of | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
you? Not 100% certain, you can't be in American politics, and no matter | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
what she said to you, I know that public life has taken a real toll on | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
her at times. You know when she was out stumping for her healthcare plan | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
in 1994 there was a day in Seattle where people were cursing her and | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
spitting on her and it took a while for her to recover from that. What | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
sort of a candidate is she going to make if she does run for President, | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
what do you think Katie? I think the unique thing about Hillary Clinton | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
is that she is just a political animal to her core. I think you know | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
from the first time that Bill Clinton ran for office back in | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
Arkansas, you know, politics has really driven the decisions that | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
they have made as a family and the decisions that she has made. I think | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
she always saw herself with a political career post-White House, | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
and was very calculated in all of the decision that is she made. I | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
don't think we have seen anything that's come out of this book that | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
indicates that this is any kind of real biography or real tell-all of | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
her time as Secretary of State. It is very clearly an opportunity to | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
start a campaign before a campaign starts. Somebody said to me earlier | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
is it was an attempt to explain to the American people where she has | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
been for the last few years? Right since Americans do not follow | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
foreign policy at all, unfortunately. But it seems to me | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
that she has, she's on a very clear path here, and there are an awful | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
lot of things that she doesn't write about in the book. And there has | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
been an awful lot of scrubbing going on here. But I think that she would | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
be a good candidate, not as good as her husband who was the best I have | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
ever seen. I think that she will face a challenge from the left-wing | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
of the Democratic party, especially on her positions towards Wall Street | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
which have become very controversial because of her husband's positions | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
towards Wall Street. Do you think, given that elections are all about, | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
or usually, providing it is not a second term selection, they are | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
about changes of direction. She represents continuity, doesn't she? | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
She sure does represent continuity, and I think if you look at her | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
policy positions, she's a whole lot more like Barack Obama than she is | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
like Bill Clinton, you know Bill Clinton comes from a small town in | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
Arkansas, kind of a country boy, he really understood how to connect | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
with real people. I share Joe's view that he was a brilliant politician | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
and knew how to connect with working people. I think coming out of the | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
gate with this book tour, you know she's had some real stumbles in | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
conveying herself as somebody that left the White House broke and she's | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
going to be a very different kind of politician than her husband was. I | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
think we will see her continue the policies of the Obama administration | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
as we saw in the interview. He had a few gafes too, I seem to recall. | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
Different kinds. That is the biggest problem she face, historically it | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
has been pretty tough for politicians to essentially run for a | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
third term after they have, George HW Bush did a pretty good job of it, | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
but Ronald Regan was phenomenally popular, and even Bush got into some | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
trouble, he said he wanted a kinder, gentler nation, and Nancy Regan said | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
"kinder and gentler than what"? What about this question of America's | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
standing in the world, you hear people say a lot that because Obama | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
is low-profile in foreign affairs that some how the country is | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
diminished. Is that a widespread view? I think there is certainly a | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
widespread view among the American people that our place in the world | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
has been some what diminished, I think certainly with the rise of | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
Putin, and I was very surprised to see her so whole heartedly embrace | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
this reset strategy as a brilliant move. I don't think that is where | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
the American people will see it. I don't think that foreign policy is | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
something that drives the American vote. But I do think that the | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
American people feel like we are weaker than we were. I disagree, I | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
think that our standing in the world is certainly higher now than it was | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
when George W Bush, who didn't know the difference between a Sunni and a | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
Shi'ite invaded Iraq. That wasn't the question, it was is that how the | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
American people view it? I do think the American people are really sick, | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
including most of the Republicans I meet in the country, are really sick | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
of us going in and imposing our will in places that were... He has a | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
short-term problem in Iraq, if that is taken over by a bunch of Islamist | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
nutcases? It isn't going to be, for the same reason we shouldn't have | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
gone in the first makes because Iraq is not a country. It is three | :30:09. | :30:21. | |
different satraps from the out Monday Otteman empire. The problem | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
is all the straight borders you Brits drew years ago. There is a | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
time you have to stop blaming your great, great, great-grand parents? | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
It is not me, it is the people who live in the area who want to | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
determine where their countries are, and they don't go with the straight | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
line borders. Is this a huge problem? Huge over the next 30 | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
years. Of course it is going to be a big problem, the American people I | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
feel regardless of what the tactical solution is in Iraq today, the | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
American people want to view our country as strong. They take a lot | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
of pride in that. I don't think what has happened in Russia in the last | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
several years has been viewed as something that has been taking a | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
strong position against Russia. Thank you very much indeed. That is | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
it from New York, let's return to the story of Iraq and join Kirsty in | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
London. So President the story of Iraq and join Kirsty in | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
indicated that the US is prepared to take military action to prevent | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
Jihadists gaining a foothold in Iraq, not ruling anything out. | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
Judging by the relenties advance of Isis on Baghdad, after securing | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
broad swathes of Iraq, the country is already in danger of fracturing. | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
A warning this film contains images that some viewers may find | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
disturbing. So Isis consolidates his hold on | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
Mosul, it has issued religious edicts, insisting on five prayers a | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
day and Islamic modesty, and it is pressing its fighters south towards | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
Baghdad. The Government's response? There have been air attacks on Mosul | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
and Tikrit, precisely the type of tactic that alienated so many Sunnis | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
in the first place. But is the Sunni community solid, or could more | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
moderate leaders be lured away from Isis. One of the generals who helped | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
split the Sunni insurgency against the coalition thinks it could be | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
done again. One of the most significant things that happened in | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
2006 and 2007 is certainly large numbers of the tribal elders | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
particularly in western Iraq got thoroughly disenchanted with what | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
Al-Qaeda is doing. One the risks that Isis runs at the present time | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
is creating exactly the same effect amongst some of the more | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
conservative parts of the Sunni population. There are also secular | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
moderate Sunni who don't want to be any part of this. By no stretch of | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
the imagination can it possibly be said that Isis speaks for the Sunni | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
community. Al-Qaeda in the land of two rivers, Iraq started when | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
Jordanian Jihadist swore allegance to Osama Bin Laden. As he gained | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
followers through spectacular attacks and beheadings, he became | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
make's top target in Iraq. After they killed him, the Jihadists | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
regrouped and in September 2006 relaunched themselves as the Islamic | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
State of Iraq. But their fortunes waned, Sunni tribes were turned | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
against them, coalition Special Forces killed and captured | :33:32. | :33:40. | |
thousands. One of those detainees, Al-Bagdadi, released when the | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
Americans withdrew, emerged as a powerful figure in the Syrian Civil | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
War. In April last year he formed the Islamic State of Iraq and | :33:48. | :33:55. | |
AlSham, meaning Syria, Isis. He takes names like Al-Husani, which | :33:56. | :34:04. | |
aims to say he's descended from the Prophet Mohammed's family. He calls | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
himself names that says he's from the same Arab tribe as the prophet | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
comes from. There is no doubt he's projecting himself as the legitimate | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
successor to those from early Islam. Couched in 14th century language, | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
Isis has brought 14th century justice to the Syrian town it has | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
controlled for months. There has been crucifixions and beheadings, | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
churches descrated. What is so woeful about the Mall malfailure is | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
it has disregarded key aspects of the successful coalition approach. | :34:44. | :34:52. | |
Some of the mill ligses hired 60,000 Sunni insurge -- back in 2008 when | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
we filmed them, members predicted that the Shia led Government would | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
get rid of them as soon as the Americans had gone. That is exactly | :35:03. | :35:11. | |
what happened. Back in Dura this spring, we were told that what was | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
once an awakening force of 1500 policing the district had now shrunk | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
to one dozen. In its place Government police mostly Shia | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
outsiders. The defence of Baghdad could now depend on Shia militias | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
with Iranian support. While in the north Kurdish fighters have assumed | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
control of the city of Kirkuk. That growing sectarianism makes it all | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
the heard to lure Sunni support away from the Jihadists again. The | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
insurgency as a whole is a lot more dominated by Isis than back in the | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
days of the Iraq War. I mean Al-Qaeda in Iraq in the Islamic | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
state of Iraq were important, but I think there was a lot more variety | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
in terms of the insurgent groups and their strains. Where as this time | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
I'm a lot more sceptical. I would apply the same analysis to Syria, | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
where really we have seen the anti-Isis rebel movements, they have | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
really failed to roll back them in any meaningful manner. We see Isis | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
making gains in south eastern Syria. Isis is strong then and survival for | :36:27. | :36:40. | |
the Mall -- the Mall mal-Government could have been feeding the most | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
formidable foes. Joining me from his home in Kingston | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
upon Thames is former Iraqi Prime Minister. Good evening. First of | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
all, you are just back from Baghdad. Is there a real feeling there that | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
you are facing the break up of the country? This is a possibility. I | :37:02. | :37:12. | |
hope it will be a remote possibility of the Iraqis don't pull together | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
and form a unity Government. To get out of the current mess. Otherwise | :37:19. | :37:26. | |
my fear is that potentially the danger does exist on dividing the | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
country. Is this the worst you have seen in 30 years of Iraqi politics, | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
the worst in terms of holding the country together? Definitely it is | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
worse. It is quite dangerous. We have been losing around a thousand | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
Iraqis per month for the last year or so. Killed by terrorist groups. | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
Unfortunately the Government was not able to control this, definitely the | :37:54. | :38:02. | |
political process itself is not an inclusive political process it is | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
being built on sectarian levels and sectarian drives. This has been | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
quite painful to the country. So when you hear that President Obama | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
does not rule out military intervention, not boots on the | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
ground, but military intervention, does that fill you with hope or more | :38:21. | :38:29. | |
concern? I'm more concerned, I think this would add fuel to the fire, | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
unfortunately. I know that the United States has lost its | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
capabilities in Iraq, and indeed in the Middle East, the greater Middle | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
East. We know that there is no clarity in the policy where the | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
American policy is heading with regards to the east. We know the | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
peace process is being stagnant now between the Arabs and the Israelis. | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
Afghanistan, North Africa, Horn of Africa, Syria. There is an increase | :39:06. | :39:13. | |
activities of Al-Qaeda and indeed now it is in Iraq also. To stop this | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
regional conflict, because it is as you say a regional conflict, if | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
there was to be a pull together of Iraq itself, Hillary Clinton says | :39:26. | :39:27. | |
Nouri Al-Maliki has to be more incluesive, something that you agree | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
with. We heard that Lieutenant curl national Robert Fry saying that | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
actually the Sunnis themselves need to be divided off because of course | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
not all Sunnis are part of any kind of extremist grouping. How do you | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
reconcile, do you have a role to play, are you going back? I'm going | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
back in two days time. Tomorrow I'm going back. The problem of Sunnis | :39:53. | :40:00. | |
and Shias is an oversimplification. Never existed in Iraq this problem | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
before. Yes there are pockets, definitely, who do behave in a | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
sectarian way, but by and large the Iraqi people rejected and never | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
thought of along the sectarian lines. What we have is a fight | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
between extremism and moderation. Throughout the greater Middle East, | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
not only in Iraq. And unfortunately there are people within the Sunni | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
block who are extremists and likewise in the Shia group also we | :40:29. | :40:36. | |
have extremism. Likewise on the Kurdish component we have extremism. | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
We have likewise moderation and I think this conflict is widespread | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
throughout the greater Middle East and I believe that when the | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
Americans invaded Iraq, unfortunately they dismandled the | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
state of Iraq, not -- dismantled the state of Iraq, not just Saddam | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
Hussein, the whole state. They wanted to create a new state but | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
they failed to do so because they had no post-conflict policy. Thank | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
you very much for joining us. Brazil opened the World Cup with a | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
hard-fought 1 victory over Croatia, despite the excitement and | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
razzmatazz, there is persistent signs of protest which came to | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
police firing tear bullets and teargas and not extinguishing it. | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
Hours before the tournament kicked off, demonstrators tried to march as | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
close to the arena as possible. Among the protesters is a protestor | :41:39. | :41:46. | |
whose anger at the World Cup has been channelled into her YouTube | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
video I'm Not Going to the World Cup. This is flavour of her film | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
seen by four million people. Some think the World Cup is the incentive | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
for the country to get better. So we will be paying taxes all these years | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
for what? What country needs an incentive to take care of its | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
people. Suddenly there is all this money to build stadiums and the | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
population is led to believe that the World Cup is just the change | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
there needed for their lives to get better. But the truth is that most | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
of the money that comes from the games in the stadiums goes straight | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
to FIFA and we don't even see it. I'm joined now by Carla. That hard | :42:29. | :42:42. | |
fought victory does it bring any bit of excitement from you, do you think | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
it will diminish the protests? Hi there, it actually doesn't bring me | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
any excitement. I think all that I have been through with the veto and | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
everything it is hard to separate the protests from the games, even | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
though the game is a good thing. In my thing it is hard to separate, I | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
can't do it any more. I didn't actually watch the game. Now in | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
terms of protests I think, I don't think it is a matter of the result | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
of the game, but the repression that is going on right now, it is | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
carrying people, it is scaring people, I was there today, was | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
insanely violent. They were putting children at risk, older people, all | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
sorts of people. People that were not even trying to march or do | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
anything. There were two protests, one was the Metro, people from the | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
Metr they were protesting and then there were the people protesting the | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
World Cup specifically. At some point the protests were combined. | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
The police were repressing the first one, the World Cup protest, the | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
other one was completely just staying in a certain area. But the | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
police didn't want the protests to even start. It was insanely violent | :43:58. | :44:07. | |
and... The President, I mean, there is a lot of military hardware out | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
there, there is helicopters, there is friget, a lot of military | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
activity. But presumably the last thing Brazil wants is to be seen to | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
be heavihanded when so many people from the outside world are there. So | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
do you think, one, there will be a harder crackdown, or do you think | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
more people will be out on the streets as a result of anger at the | :44:33. | :44:51. | |
crackdown today as a result of anger at the crackdown today. We didn't | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
know how it was going to develop, and a lot of people got upset at the | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
repression, there is no doubt they will go to the streets again. It is | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
scary, very scary, because compared to the force the police has, the | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
protest is small. It is not a well prepared police, they don't have the | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
intelligence to deal with the protests the right way, so they end | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
up involving people there protesting peacefully. It is really funny that | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
after the protests I went near the stadium to get some images because | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
I'm shooting a documentary, and when I get there there was the march for | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
Jesus Saves, they were there with their signs and that seemed to be | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
OK. Now the other protests couldn't there, I don't see why. A lot of | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
people will be upset and they may come back to the streets, it is very | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
hard to predict. It was scary, I have a friend who was helping with | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
first aid for the people who were hurt and more than 35 people were | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
hurt, two went to the hospital. But is there not an element of hope, | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
from your point of view, that so many people from other parts of the | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
world are in Brazil, and they are seeing the favelas and the poverty, | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
thank in a sense might jolt Brazil into action? I hope so. Yes. I do | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
hope so, but my fear is that people will forget all of this with the | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
game. I hope they don't. And I think the game is still important, despite | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
disagreeing the way it was made, the way they organised it, but I just | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
hope people don't forget the rest. So they can watch the games, yes, of | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
course, and I think they have the right to, but my fear is they will | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
forget the rest. I have to stop you there, thank you very much for | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
joining us. That is all we have time for tonight, from me and Jeremy in | :46:41. | :46:49. | |
A day of contrast today and tomorrow, lots of shine across | :46:50. | :47:00. | |
England and Wales to start the day. Patchy cloud into the afternoon, it | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
will be warm again. Further north rain around, particularly through | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
the morning, a wet start to the day. In the afternoon the rain becomes | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
light and patchy, not much left over in Northern Ireland through the | :47:13. | :47:14. | |
middle of the afternoon. Temperatures 16, 17. The rain easing | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
off from the north and west of Scotland. Keeping it pretty damp for | :47:21. | :47:21. |