Browse content similar to 25/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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reprecussion for his empire after yesterday's verdict. We ask what | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
fall-out this trial will actually have. One of his fiercest crickets | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
is here. Wonga creates a fake law firm to | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
send threatening letters to its customers, we invent our own and | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
write bac Some call them terrorists, he says | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
he's there to help. An ex-cluesive interview with a British man who | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
fled to Syria to fight. I'm not going to sit there and debate with | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
you or ask you not to call me a terrorist. | :00:50. | :01:01. | |
Rupert Murdoch is flying into town to be met with more than a cream pie | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
this time. The conviction of former News of the World editor, Andy | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
Coulson, could mean corporate chances against News UK. Those | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
waiting to see the Murdoch empire implode can wait, the family's | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
wealth has doubled almost since the hacking scandal began. As the | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
hacking trial came to an inconclusive end, David Cameron | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
found himself in the dock rebuked by the judge for his ill-advised | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
comments. What is the reaction from the verdicts yesterday and whose | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
reputation is now at stake? Read all about it. Hacking has hung | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
over the Prime Minister and the press baron for years. David Cameron | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
will be slapped with new headlines for risking the trial. I think for | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
my honourable friend is absolutely right. Keeping the promise to | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
apologise for hiring Coulson if he was guilty. I say again today I take | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
full responsibility for employing Andy Coulson, I did so based on the | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
assurances I and the Select Committee received. Always said if | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
those assurances turned out to be wrong I would apologise fully and | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
frankly to this House of Commons and I do so again today from this | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
despatch box. But... That aroused the significant displeasure of | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
Justice Saunders, because when Cameron first made his apology | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
yesterday the trial wasn't over. At the Old Bailey today the jury were | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
discharged, as they just couldn't decide on two final charges. | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
Cameron's apology was not the reason they failed to conclude. But the | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
judge demanded an explanation. Number Ten is adamant, David Cameron | :02:43. | :03:06. | |
had the best legal advice before opening his mouth. The judge is not | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
blaming him directly for the messy end of this trial. But no Prime | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
Minister wants to be criticised publicly by a senior judge. Saying | :03:13. | :03:20. | |
sorry was meanted to meant to make things better and is deeply awkward | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
instead. One of his colleagues thinks it is a mistake. They were | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
unwise and there should have been legal wise, I doubt it would have | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
crossed David's mind. Why was it unwise? I will give a properly | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
organised interview or no interview at all. But sadly, later he was | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
reluctant to repeat that criticism. And unfortunately the PM has | :03:45. | :03:54. | |
previous. A different judge said David Cameron should have kept his | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
views to himself during the Lawson household fraud trial, and the | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
former Lord Chancellor, Lord Faulkner, told Newsnight there | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
should be a review of the contempt laws, yet the lawyer of some hacking | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
victims believes the judge and the PM were following the same fine | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
line. The judge this morning clearly didn't agree with the advice of the | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
Attorney-General. He was very keen that nothing should happen at the | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
last minute not to fall at the last hurdle. That there was a brink here, | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
that David Cameron perhaps was hovering on the brink of disaster in | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
terms of what he had said. But actually it wasn't a disaster | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
afterall. Ed Miliband was rapid to slam Cameron yesterday, in his | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
words, "for taking a criminal to Number Ten". But today he was eager | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
to know why was full security clearance not sought for Coulson at | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
the start. Let's come to the vetting Mr Speaker, amidst all of the | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
warnings, the very least he should have done is insisted immediately on | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
coming to office that Andy Coulson should have the highest level of | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
security vetting as his six predecessors over the previous 14 | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
years had. Why didn't he insist on it? Leveson concluded this, the | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
level of security clearance was not the decision of either Mr Cameron or | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
Mr Coulson, it was the decision of the Civil Service. Labour thinks | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
there is mileage in pushing David Cameron on why Coulson didn't get | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
the toughest background checks before he came to work here. They | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
hoped to show, at least, something distinctly odd went on. Whatever the | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
official version of events may be, there were nerves at senior levels. | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
Labour has asked one former senior civil servant to investigate | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
precisely what Number Ten mandarins got up to, as well as their | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
political bosses. Number Ten insists this one, Jeremy Heywood, simply | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
didn't think Andy Coulson needed the highest level of clearance to start | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
with. That was unworkable so they started the process before he left. | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
But Gus O'Donnell says the decision to appoint Coulson was nothing to do | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
with him. The head of the Civil Service at the time will not shed | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
light on whether he warned the PM off. But how would the other | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
powerful man in this scandal write his headline. Well no question it | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
could have been worse. It is not just nice for the wider family, well | :06:30. | :06:40. | |
the metaphor calm ical one at least, but Rebekah Brooks's Exxon racial | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
makes it less likely that other senior executives might be dragged | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
into the net. But flying into town some, Rupert Murdoch himself may | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
have to talk to police. And the bill to deal with the scandal has reached | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
?500 million here and in the states. But while Mr Murdoch has had to | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
split up his business, beyond just closing down the News of the World, | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
the family and his companies have made lots more money. The opposite | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
of value being destroyed. As a result of this split, the overall | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
value of the enterprise has essentially tripled. That has added | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
around $6 billion to the Murdoch family wealth. In fact it has been | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
an extraordinarily good thing, both for the company in terms of | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
modernising it and changing its practices and also for the Murdoch | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
family in terms of their overall wealth. But there is still | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
difficulties to come. But in terms of making friends or keeping old | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
ones, for the first time in decades, Rupert Murdoch is not close to | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
either of British leader of the opposition or the sitting Prime | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
Minister. And with more trials to come, both of their reputations | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
could still stand to suffer. Not even close. We're joined now which | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
Tom Watson, the Labour MP and author. And from New York by Felix | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
Salmon, a close observer of the Murdoch empire. We asked News | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Corporation for an interview but the offer was declined. Let's look at | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
the astonishing figures coming out showing the overall value of the | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
Murdoches has tripled. Gone up by ?6 billion in the last few years. Now | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
if your goal, or if the goal was to bring down the Murdoch empire that | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
has manifestly failed? That was not the goal, the goal was to expose | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
criminality at the heart of the operation of News Corporation. But I | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
think what these figures show is Rupert Murdoch is still an | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
extraordinary powerful figure in global commerce and has incredible | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
reach into politics. The reason you saw the tension in the House of | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
Commons today is frankly politicians still fear him, he can damage them, | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
you see what his ins can do, his television companies, his global | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
reach. He still is a major figure in British politics and that's why the | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
courage of politicians is important in what we do next. You think he | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
will be back, neither leader is close to him per se at the moment, | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
but he hasn't gone from British politics? He has never really gone | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
away. The company have been very clever, in fact they sacked a lot of | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
the people that were associated with the old regime at the company. They | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
have brought some smart hires, they are improving their corporate social | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
responsibility, I think you can see progress in the way they are | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
cleaning up their act, but at the end of the day it is still old | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
Rupert Murdoch who likes to move politicians around the chess board. | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
Just explain to us why he has done so well out of this? After the | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
hacking scandal first exploded he finally was forced to spin off all | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
of his print operations, the newspapers basically, and the books, | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
into a completely separate MP called news Corp, it was everything, | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
before, including the TV and movie studios all which make real money. | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
Now that is a new company called 21st Century Fox, worth $75 billion, | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
and the massive discount that used to be applied to the old News Corp | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
on the grounds that no-one likes owning newspapers these days has | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
completely disappeared. Meanwhile the newspaper company called News | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
Corp, which is smaller and worth about $10 million. It is looking | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
healthy, a bunch of cash, the Wall Street Journal and some good | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
franchises. It is also insulated. The bigger company is insulated from | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
any kind of bad stuff that happens to News Corp now. This was a | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
decision that Rupert Murdoch never wanted to make and he was forced to | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
make it and as a result he has made billions of dollars. It has sort of | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
done him a favour, having to go through these decisions has done him | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
a favour? I'm not so sure they are insulated. Rupert Murdoch runs these | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
companies, and only tonight we have seen Panorama reveal that the | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
witness protection programme was compromised in 2006 by people | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
working for the company. We see a Tom Harper story in the Independent | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
tomorrow showing that senior, former senior, executives have been | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
interviewed under caution in relation to potential corporate | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
charges. This company is not out of the wood work yet. Where do you | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
think that is going then? Which company are you talking about. Go on | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
Felix? It depends which company you are talking about. News UK is not | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
insulated and News Corp is not entirely insulated but at this point | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
21st Century Fox where his real wealth is, that is insulated. I'm | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
not sure if Rupert Murdoch's business reputation and legal | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
position is insulated. Let's remember he dominates all of these | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
companies. But, look, you know, I'm not going to deny, his companies | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
make immense amounts of money, which gives him immense amounts of power. | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
The real situation in the UK is where does the police investigation | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
lie. If you were looking at the verdict yesterday and you say Brooks | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
has been cleared and Andy Coulson convicted. What does that tell you | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
about the possibility of corporate criminality now? It is not for me to | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
convict or to decide where it goes. We now know that having denied it | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
for five years a senior editor in News Corp was involved in phone | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
hacking, and five other senior manager in that company have pleaded | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
guilty. Remember for many, many years the company denied any of | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
this, and now there is a liability. I think the prosecution authorities | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
will be weighing that up. How was this received in the US. Because | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
clearly the papers here for obvious reasons were split on whether they | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
talked about the one who was cleared or the one who was convicted? I | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
think that Coulson is considered a David Cameron story, a political | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
story, Rebekah Brooks was the Rupert Murdoch story. When she was | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
acquitted the general reaction in the US was well that's the corporate | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
executive has gone free and Rupert has won this one. I wonder if you | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
see Andy Coulson as a bit of a firewall really, the person that | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
sort of kept the Murdoch empire there and the political world there. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Do you have any sympathy for the position he has played and whether | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
he has done it? In some ways, I also have sympathy that his course of | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
justice is not over. I don't really want to pass judgment on him myself. | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
You know it was never personal with him, it was all about trying to | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
expose what went on with the company. Yes, there is no doubt | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
about it, but in a funny sort of way the story has gone to David Cameron. | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
In one sense that's probably obvious because he went to extraordinary | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
lengths to keep Andy Coulson in office, he took great risks to keep | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
him there when many people warned him that he shouldn't. But in | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
another you know, commerce might think this company is out of the | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
woods, but I'm not sure the British justice system thinks that yet. What | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
does this all tell us about the role of the police and the CPS, given | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
that this body of evidence was pretty much available back in 2006? | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
Firstly I think the meticulous way that priest wheating Operation | :14:40. | :14:49. | |
Wheating dealt with this shows how inadequate the original | :14:50. | :14:51. | |
investigation was, and the only way to find out how woeful that | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
investigation was is some investigation into the police I | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
think the second stage of Leveson which was the bit about who did what | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
to whom should take place. There is something very, very wrong happened | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
with the MetropolitaPolice and their original inquiries. We will only get | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
to the facts that have if we look in some detail. No police officer has | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
been asked to explain why in 2006 they knew that the witness | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
protection programme was compromised by this company and nobody did | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
anything about it. Thank you very much. Iraq's Prime Minister, Nouri | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
Al-Maliki, has rejected calls for a national salvation Government to | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
help counter the offensive by ISIS in his weekly televised address he | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
warned that forming an emergency unity Government could go against | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
April's parliamentary elections and represented an attempt to end the | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
democratic experience. We have our report now in Baghdad. Give us if | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
you can the reaction to today's latest on the ground? Nouri | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
Al-Maliki is facing two very serious but competing changes here. Number | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
one he's trying to hold his country together in the face of this very | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
fierce insurgency, led by ISIS, that has taken over towns and territory | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
in the west and also in the north, but it is also supported by Sunnis | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
in those areas who felt frozen out of the political process of a stake | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
in this country, and further complicated by the Kurds who are | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
also taking on territory they have long claimed. But Nouri Al-Maliki is | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
also trying to hold on to his job, those parliamentary elections in | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
April, he got the most votes, but he didn't win them outright. In Iraq's | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
system of horse trading and coalition building, that doesn't | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
necessarily mean that he still gets to be Prime Minister. So his | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
reactions to calls for a national salvation Government have been | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
interpreted as a Government that possibly doesn't include him as its | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
head. He has rejected that very strongly. On the other hand he knows | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
he needs the help of the Americans to try to defeat ISIS. He has | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
admitted that much himself. It is clear from what the Americans have | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
said that they see him as a devisive figure, as a man who has ruled this | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
country, who has run it in an overtly sectarian manner and is at | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
least partly to blame for the trouble that we are here now. When | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
you are on the ground, how palpable is the sectarian divide that we are | :17:17. | :17:27. | |
reporting? I don't know if you can hear me, when you are on the ground | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
pow palpable is that sectarian divide we are reporting? I couldn't | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
hear that question if there was one. But if you were asking me about the | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
mood here on the ground today as that national salvation Government | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
was rejected, Nouri Al-Maliki, number one made it clear that he | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
wasn't rejecting the idea of forming an inclusive Government, which he | :17:49. | :17:50. | |
says will happen in a matter of days, if not weeks. But on the | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
ground here, if you go to Sunni areas in Baghdad, like I have been, | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
you feel a strong sense of fear. Even amongst people who want this | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
country to stick together. Tales of arrest and arbitary arrest that | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
people feel very much is simply because of their faith, because they | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
are Sunni in this country that is dominated by the Shi'ite Government. | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Nouri Al-Maliki holds not only the Prime Ministership but also the two | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
crucial security ministries, defence and interior, and that has led many | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
to feel in this still unstable nation, many in the Sunni community | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
that they have simply been frozen out. The Islamic state of Iraq and | :18:31. | :18:45. | |
ISIS have uploaded up videos of their activities even crucifixions, | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
but ISIS members do not like to be named by the Islamic term because of | :18:53. | :19:04. | |
the extremism. Parallels brought -- in a moment an exclusive interview | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
with a British man fighting in Syria, but first a brief explanation | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
of what Haraj means. During the last days there will | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
their faith will not go beyond their throats. They will leave their | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
religion as a bird goes after its prey, where you find them, kill | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
them. These words attributed to the | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
Prophet Mohammed were said to show the first group of extremists in | :19:39. | :19:47. | |
Islam, "those who leave". They emerged in southern Iraq in the 7th | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
century. In the years following Mohammed's death, battle raged | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
between his son-in-law and the Governor of Syria over who should | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
lead the Muslims. Is it peace negotiations were started between | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
the two as to which of them it should be. This angered some of | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
early supporters who believe God not man must choose the leader, and this | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
group broke away. Furious with Ali for agreeing to negotiations, and | :20:16. | :20:22. | |
the other for trying to usurp his title. They were famed for their | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
religious fervour but also brutality, massacring Muslims who | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
disagreed with their interpretation of Islam, including Ali. The | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
original group were eventually defeated and they are considered her | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
particulars, but their legacy still resonates, the term is used to | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
describe groups considered too extreme. The Algerian Islamist group | :20:44. | :20:50. | |
GIA, in the 1990s carried out civilian massacres is thoughed to | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
have become modern day Khawrij. And Al-Qaeda have been accused of being | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
the same. Even ISIS have been accused of had heing Khawraji, they | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
deny being that, while the group continues its march towards southern | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
Iraq, the birth place of Islam's first extremists. We have | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
interviewed a British man from Brighton fighting in Syria. He | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
travelled with his two younger brothers, one of whom was killed | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
three months ago. He's not part of ISIS, but has been fighting | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
alongside the Al-Qaeda affiliated group, and more MoD raid Islamist | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
groups. Senior figures have criticised ISIS and their | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
activities. It illustrates the divisions between fighters in Syria. | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
We sent him questions and he videoed his replies. | :21:51. | :26:03. | |
Joining me now is the chair of contemporary Middle East studies at | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
the LSE who has written extensively on Al-Qaeda and spoken to hundreds | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
of fighters in their ranks. Thank you for coming in. Do the opinions | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
that you heard there of one extremist sound familiar to you. Are | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
these what other Brits out there fighting in Syria are saying? You | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
know what you have heard really is a scripted ideolgical template by an | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
Al-Qaeda operative. A well known view on victimhood and distorted | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
reading of the Muslim doctrine. He doesn't speak for the Sunni | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
community, he says he's defending for the Muslim community. He speaks | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
for a hyper-minority Sunni view, what we call the Al-Qaeda family. He | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
says they are not interested in returning, for example, they are not | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
a threat to this country once they return, do you believe that? Emily, | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
no, I don't. I would not take what he says for granted for two major | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
reasons, first, we know that wars are transformative. What he says | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
today might not hold in one or two years. His world might be shattered, | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
deep scars, we know what wars do. Exactly what we need to understand | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
about Al-Qaeda, whether you are talking about the parent | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
organisation, Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden and others, or the Islamic | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
state, this is a top-down vanguard elitist, secretive, self-enclosed | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
movement. This gentleman here does not basically act and say what he | :27:33. | :27:41. | |
believes in, he basically has sworn the oath to the chief, the Amir of | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
the Islamic state. If the Amir, the chief of ISIS says to him, look I | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
want you to commit to carry out a suicide bombing, he would have to do | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
it. This is the reality, this is a vanguard, top-down organisation and | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
elitist organisation. That is why I would not take his words for | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
granted. Of course this man is not in ISIS, but just the factions, the | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
sectarianism is mind-boggling now. If you try to explain to our viewers | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
that Al-Qaeda, who are behind 9/11, consider ISIS to be too extreme, | :28:14. | :28:25. | |
then... Emily ISIS's extremism gives Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden a good | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
name, this is how bad it is. Look what has happened between ISIS, the | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
Islamic state and the official arm of Al-Qaeda. I mean ISIS has | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
butchered hundreds of the official arm of Al-Qaeda. They have killed | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
hundreds of them. They not only excommunicate their enemies, the | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
Syrian Government and civilians, they excommunicate Al-Qaeda-linked | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
fighters because they disagree with their politics. ISIS is a her | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
receiptic movement because it celebrates -- her receiptic movement | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
because it celebrates violence. How will that change if the US and UK | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
enter the equation? I have no doubt in my mind, when we talk about | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
Al-Qaeda, Al-Qaeda is a family, you have sisters and brothers, Osama Bin | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
Laden was the far enemy to the United States and the enemies. The | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
main target of the Al-Qaeda groups today is the near enemy, the local, | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
the Arab and Muslim leaders. But if the United Stat basically decides to | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
take on ISIS in Iraq and Syria I could easily seen the lines blurred | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
between the far and near enemy. I could easily see this gentleman | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
basically deciding and designing attacks against the United States | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
and its allies, particularly the western countries. It takes a | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
certain kind of mind to come up with a ruse like this one, Wonga, | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
Britain's most famous pay-day lender invented a law firm in order to send | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
its customers threatening letters over legal action against | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
outstanding debt. They then charged the customers for the time the fake | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
law firm had spent being well a fake law firm. Today the Financial | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
Conduct Authority ordered Wonga to pay ?2. 5 million compensation to | :30:19. | :30:26. | |
their rather real 45,000 customers. Few things are as stressful as | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
receiving letters from debt collectors and lawyers. But imagine | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
receiving a letter from a law firm, threatening legal action and then | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
discovering that the firm doesn't actually exist. That's the situation | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
45,000 customers of Wonga found themselves in between 2008 and 2010. | :30:46. | :30:55. | |
With a loan from Wongsawat.com, you will decide the amount you want. | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
Today the Financial Conduct Authority has forced the company to | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
pay compensation worth ?2. 6 million to those affected. To put pressure | :31:06. | :31:15. | |
on those who owed them cash, Wonga sent pressure from what appeared to | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
be two law firms. Despite coming from Wonga itself, the letters | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
opened... The letters claimed to come from | :31:24. | :31:44. | |
Barker and Lowe. We are not surprised but horrified by the news. | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
The reason is we have been worried about the whole of the payday | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
industry for a considerable time because of the reports we get from | :31:54. | :31:55. | |
people coming for assistance to us. It is partly because the business | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
model for payday lending is all about thriving on deepening debt. It | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
is also because some of the dubious practices we see across the industry | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
and we don't accept the argument that this is just rogue outliars, it | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
is clearly across the industry. These offices in west London were | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
once home to Wonga's HQ, coincidently they were also the | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
where the letters from the fake law firms claimed to come. Somewhere in | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
the rooms in here someone had to sit down and think of names for two fake | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
law firm, how did they do it, you wonder. In a fervour, even more | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
striking coincidence, those two fake firms share their names with members | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
of Wonga's staff. Wonga today have issued a statement: | :32:43. | :32:59. | |
An apology and compensation payments are one thing, but why won't they be | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
subject to a fine as well. The Financial Conduct Authority took | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
over regulation of consumer lenders this April. It says it can't issue | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
fines for behaviour before this date. But there's another issue at | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
play here too. Surely people have been asking, pretending to be a law | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
firm when you might not even have a GCSE is law is, well, against the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
law. Not exactly. People can set up and call themselves law firms, they | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
can't set themselves up and call themselves solicitors, because that | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
would be an offence, they can call themselves a law firm even though | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
they are not lawyers, and certain things they can do without actually | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
being properly regulated at all. That has to be a concern. Calling | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
yourself a solicitor or a barrister when you are not will get you into | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
serious trouble. But as long as you avoid those terms and are careful | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
with your wording, there is quite a big grey area that can be exploited. | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
We asked Wonga to appear on the programme tonight, they declined. So | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
since it seems pretty much anyone can call themselves a lawyer now | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
aday, we thought we would try this. They may not want to talk to | :34:15. | :34:22. | |
Newsnight, but maybe a letter from Duncan Weldon Associates might | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
change their mind. Sadly, we didn't make it past reception. | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
Who knows, maybe the letter did. Campaigners seeking the right to die | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
without risk of their loved ones being prosecuted lost their | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
challenge in the Supreme Court today. But in a significant ruling | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
the Supreme Court concluded it does have the power to declare the law | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
which creme Ialises acts of those who help to take a life as | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
incompatible with human life. It directed parliament to consider | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
assisted parliament or see judges stepping in. The case came from the | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
widow of Tony Nicklinson and by Paul Lamb, who gave this exclusive | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
interview. The Supreme Court have ruled against | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
you, you have lost your case, but they have said that parliament, | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
effectively, should know change the law on assisted suicide, how do you | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
feel about that? I think it is a step in the right direction, because | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
it is now, I believe, forcing parliament to take it on board, and | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
if they don't, from what I have heard, I will have a right to come | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
back to the Supreme Court, for them to make a judgment. So it is kind of | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
a victory wrapped in a defeat, really? Yeah. But whatever way you | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
look at it, the one thing that I was saying to my two carers last night, | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
I actually feel proud of myself for what I have done, for myself and a | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
lot of other people that perhaps haven't got the strength to, the | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
strength that this journey has taken, which once again it is | :36:07. | :36:14. | |
knocking the stuffing out of me. What do you say to people that they | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
have huge sympathy, empathy with you, but life is sacred, and there | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
should be no change to the law that allows assisting a suicide? I have | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
all the respect in the world for individuals and their beliefs. All | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
the respect. It is their views, it is their, it is what they are, and | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
I'm what I am. But I do resent them stopping me, because these are | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
people usually that don't experience pain, they really don't. When the | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
pain is bad what's that like for you? I just literally compared it | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
with being hit by a bus, laid on the floor and waiting for somebody to | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
come and pick me up and take me to the hospital and make me better, and | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
that is the experience I get. And when it comes it is horrible. People | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
will listen to you, Paul, and they will say, look this is a really | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
intelligent and articulate man, he's still part of life, he as still able | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
to converse to enjoy things, to travel, to read, there should never | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
be a law that allows someone like that to be assisted to die? Firstly | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
I would thank them for those comments, but when I get a good day | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
it is, it is fantastic, and you know there will be a granddaughter coming | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
along soon. My daughter in Australia she's got a little girl and they are | :37:41. | :37:48. | |
living on the beach, just 800ms up from where they film Home and Away | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
on television, so I have helped them get there. I mean and I do take a | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
part in that because between my wife and myself we did a great job with | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
them and they are fantastic kids. People will say with all of that, to | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
enjoy, why is it that at some point you want a doctor to assist you to | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
end your life? I have seen people, I have got to know and be friends with | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
and I have seen quite a few people die, suffering badly, really badly | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
and I have actually seen their family come to see these people and | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
the family has been crying, it makes them so upset seeing a loved one | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
going through such pain. I just want it there for when I know it is the | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
end of the road. And I will know. If I can't be got right, I don't wish | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
to spend years in bed just screaming out in pain. To believe it or not my | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
son and daughter don't want that. In fact I sent an e-mail out, it was | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
one to a lot of people, including my son and daughter saying that I'm in | :39:03. | :39:10. | |
court today and my son wrote one back and said so proud of you dad, | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
kiss, kiss. It touches me stuff like that. And I love him to bits, I | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
really do. That was Paul talking to Clive, who is here now. Incredibly | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
moving that interview, but as Paul says, it was a step forward in one | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
way, but he lost. What Paul wanted and what the late Tony Nicklinson, | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
now represented by his widow wanted was a declaration that our blanket | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
ban on assisting a suicide, which prevents people like Paul and Tony | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
from getting assistance to end their life at a time that they choose. | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
That blanket ban was incompatible with his Article 8 right to have a | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
private and family life. He lost on that by a majority of 7-2, two of | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
the justices were prepared to grant that declaration, but that was a | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
loss. However, having said that, by a slim majority two of the justices | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
ruled that blanket ban was potentially inpatable and the others | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
-- incompatible and two others thought so too. Six of the justices | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
effectively said now parliament it is up to you to look at amending | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
this legislation. So what happened there really was a flexing of the | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
court's constitutional muscles saying look, over to you parliament, | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
look at amending this legislation. We don't really think a lot of it. | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
One said that the infringement into Paul Lamb's private life was grave | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
as a result of the blanket ban. Have a look at it, and if you don't do | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
anything we have the power to make a declaration of incompatibility over | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
this ban. If we did that there would be a prisoner vote situation where a | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
blanket ban was deemed to be in breach of convention rights. It is | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
over to parliament now? It is, and will parliament do anything about | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
it. There is no great signs that there is a huge will to do so. Next | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
month Lord Faulkner has a bill on assisted dying, this is for people | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
terminally ill with six months to live. If parliament doesn't do | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
anything or enact legislation, what could happen is this could come back | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
to the Supreme Court, and if they then make a declaration of | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
incompatibility, then you have a real stand-off between our most | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
powerful court and parliament, you have the makings there of a | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
constitutional crisis. The teeth marks on his left shoulder had two | :41:43. | :41:52. | |
explanation, either he walked backwards into Suarez's mouth or he | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
has been at it again. Suarez has form when it comes to biting, this | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
is the third time he has chomped an opposition player in anger. He could | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
face ban from the World Cup, even two years. No doubt aching | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
frustration from his team-mates. There may also be a hefty economic | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
cost to the bite as sponsors threaten to abandon the footballer | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
they nickname "Jaws". We have a sports psychology on the programme. | :42:19. | :42:27. | |
Andrews Andrea, why, not once, not twice, but why? It is such a strange | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
act for people to see, particularly in live sport at this particular | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
level. You have got highly successful, highly competitive | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
people and obviously he's a star player, to see this sort of thing a | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
great question. It is repetitive behaviour so it would suggest that | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
there is some difficulty in changing the behaviour. But I think that it | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
is almost the question of why begs more questions from me. If he wasn't | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
a footballer or one of the most highly paid sports men in the world | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
we would say that is assault. If I did that to you it would be assault, | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
nobody would be asking why, would they? That's right. It is the topic | :43:07. | :43:13. | |
of biting typically comes up with toddlers in terms of acting out in | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
frustration, not quite understanding why they are behaving like that. | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
There are other areas of psychology that we will look into the act of | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
biting and it often involves acts of aggression. What about toddlers, it | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
is presumably because they haven't got words or language? There is the | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
emotion and frustration. That is what we would assume is going on | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
with Luis. He's very frustrated in these particular circumstances and | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
he's acting out in that frustration, but very impulsively. So without any | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
rational thought. If you were talking to a toddler or footballer | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
how do you break the cycle, obviously it is at a moment when | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
they are on the pitch, nobody is going to step in, and say don't bite | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
that guy? When we think about elite sport and particularly football, | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
they are competing quite a lot. So in terms of being able to stop, | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
reset, make some behavioral changes and maybe some cognitive changes as | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
well t takes time and effort and motivation to want to make that | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
change. So time out of the sport and... Like two years? Well, you | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
know, I keep saying it but there seems to be more questions that come | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
than answers in terms of why this behaviour is repetitive and why it | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
is on going, we need to investigate the factors leading to this sort of | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
behaviour. Thank you very much indeed. Let's take you through the | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
papers and front pages of tomorrow. A clarification now, earlier in the | :44:44. | :45:37. | |
programme there was a suggestion that Rupert Murdoch was flying into | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
the country to be questioned by police, although it is understood | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
the Metropolitan Police are planning to talk to Mr Murdoch, it was wrong | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
to imply any interview was imminent. That is all we have time for, good | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
night. Good evening, Thursday is set to be | :45:51. | :46:05. | |
a fine day for most of us across the country, there is a little bit of | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
rain on the way. It could turn heavy in the afternoon across the south | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
west of England and south of Wales too. This is the only place in the | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
country where we will see the heavy rain, the vast majority of us will | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
enjoy bright weather. Here is Scotland and Northern Ireland, apart | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
from thicker cloud and maybe a | :46:24. | :46:24. |