Browse content similar to 14/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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secretary, William Hague, announces he is to step down, who will take | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
his place, as David Cameron reshuffles the rest of his cabinet, | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
ten men lose their jobs. Is this a new era at Westminster. Our | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
political editor is here to answer that. And this: The motion has been | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
carried in all three houses. The Church of England finally votes to | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
allow women to become bishop, what has changed? We will talk live to | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
the Archbishop of Canterbury. And how did middle-class white boy | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
Ed Sheeran get named the most important man in black and urban | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
music, his collaborator is here to explain. | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
Good evening, it was not a good night to be man in cabinet, it was | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
not a good night to be middle-aged in cabinet. The prime ministerial | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
Prime Minister's purge was deep and interesting. The man removing | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
himself from office, the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, will be | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
stepping down with immediate effect, but staying on as Leader of the | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
House, and helping to one run the election campaign. Ten men of | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
cabinet level or just below have been fired, making way, you have to | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
assume for more women, or possibly for politicians with different | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
leanings. Our political editor is here to make some sense of this. | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
What do you make into this? This is the team David Cameron wants to go | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
into the next election with. These are the people that will be on sets | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
likes ours. What tomorrow will announce is many, many more women, | :01:41. | :01:51. | |
think about Francois Holland, he's Government, and David Cameron said a | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
third of the Government would be women. And one of the women brought | :01:54. | :02:03. | |
in was born in 1972, a massive theme of youth over necessarily | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
experience. And aside from gender, what other themes do you think in | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
terms of their political leanings? I think gender and youth will actually | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
mask quite a lot of mosaic shuffling on ideology. We understand this | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
evening that there is a lot of unhappiness on the right of the | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
party over what we understand is the departure of Owen Patterson, the | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
Environment Secretary, people at the very highest levels of the party | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
feel with his departure the right isn't adequately enough looked | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
after. That said, we also understand the Attorney General is depart, he | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
was seen to be a massive protector of the ECHR, the Tories have always | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
wanted to move on that as a way of showing they would be hard on | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
Europe. So it is a difficult picture to read. But there is unhappiness | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
across quite a vast swathe of the party. One name that doesn't fit any | :02:51. | :02:58. | |
part of the party, Bob Purslow. It is thought that the head of the home | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
Civil Service, Bob Curslow, a mature gentleman who is off. This is | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
because of massive rows with politicians about his eagerness to | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
reform the Civil Service. We did something last week that showed the | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
unhappiness, the fractiousness between the two sides, he's now off. | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
Thought not to have performed well enough across Government. The | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
biggest news possibly today is William Hague's departure. He will | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
stay in Government, he will stay as leader, but he won't be Foreign | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
Secretary. He will leave parliament next year. For lovers of his book, | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
they won't mind, I'm sure he will write many more books. It is all | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
right for some of you, half of you won't be here in 30 or 40 years | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
time. And now in a reshuffle some 40 years on William Hague is also off. | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
He's leaving the Foreign Office tonight and parliament next year. | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
First becoming an MP in 1989 he rose to John Major's cabinet and by 1997 | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
was leader himself. Much derided for turning up at the Notting Hill | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
Carnival, it was actually an early attempt at Tory modernisation that | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
didn't work. Hardline on Europe and immigration, his offer fell on deaf | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
ears and he resigned as story leader after the 2001 election. I have | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
decided to step down as leader of the Conservative Party. He went on | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
to write political biographies, enormously successful. His | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
reappearance lent the new Tory leader credibility. In the decade | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
since, along with George Osborne, he has been a steady part of the big | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
three on the top of the Tory Party. As Foreign Secretary, insiders say | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
William Hague's attitude towards Europe softened as the rest of his | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
party's attitude hardened. With three possible years of | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
renegotiation with Europe, the Foreign Secretary may not have been | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
his cup of tea. The ayes to the right 272, the nos to the left 285. | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
Parliament's rejection of military action in Syria last September is | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
said to have rocked him, blindsiding the whole of the Prime Minister's | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
foreign policy team. Now William Hague ditches warzones around the | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
world for the general election battleground. He remains the deputy | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
to the next election, and on to the hostile environment if you are a | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Tory, the north of England. Soon William Hague will leave parliament, | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
probably for a life penning paperback, he has been working on a | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
history of foreign secretaries, and now has another chapter to write. | :05:39. | :05:52. | |
I'm joined by my guests now. Danny Finklestein. Danny this probably | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
didn't come as a surprise to you, I'm guessing, you have worked very | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
closely, what was in his mind? In the period between being leader of | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
the Conservative Party and coming back as shadow Foreign Secretary, he | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
really enjoyed himself doing things like amazing to his friends, | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
learning to play the piano, and writing his political biographies. | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
He was quite reluctant as returning, he saw it as his duty and also he | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
was unfulfilled because he hadn't had the senior office. They really | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
didn't want him to go. But he was insistent on it. I think it is just | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
about having a life. It is as simple as that. He has reached 53 years | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
old, and he wants to do other things with his life. He's not really going | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
to have a life, he will still be Leader of the House, and still going | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
to be part of the campaign? So you know for a year and then he will go | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
off and you know and leave parliament and then he will begin | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
with the various things that he was doing. I'm sure a book will be part | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
of it. I don't know what his expect plans are, I think the most | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
important thing for a Foreign Secretary, he was going around the | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
world, he didn't spend much time in the country. He didn't see his | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
friends, his family, you know it was a period that was quite hard, his | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
mother died, for example, I think he probably just wants a bit more of a | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
life. And he has done the big things. He is not going to be Prime | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Minister, I think he thinks. He has been Foreign Secretary, it is time | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
to do something else. There was speculation it might be Theresa May | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
going into that role or a woman, we have just had it confirmed it is | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Philip Hammond. What should we read into who is coming in? I think we | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
are expecting to see more women being promoted, but you can't move a | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
woman from a very low rank in the Government all wait to Foreign | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
Secretary. It is one of the great offices of state. So you need one | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
with a great deal of experience and Philip Hammond does answer that. He | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
is a trouble shooter, I guess. In terms of Hague's tenure as Foreign | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
Secretary, do we think of it as a success? Has he made a good fist of | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
it? I don't think there is a huge Hague legacy as Foreign Secretary. | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
He did a lot of good for him. He shook off the image you saw there as | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
a 16-year-old nerd and the baseball hat at Nottingham carnival, and did | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
become statesman-like in his own persona. I don't think people can | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
point to a Hague doctrine or huge achievement as Foreign Secretary. He | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
had a great vision of Britain as the great trading nation and there is | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
some controversy over it, with British embassies around the world | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
having receptions for the Queen's birthday being sponsored, but the | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
planes flying off filled with businessmen. That was the vision and | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
then it was really knocked off by the Arab Spring and the war in | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
Libya. He got into trouble with that, we remember the whole | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
situation with Libya where he didn't manage to rescue the | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
I think he had in. There was a chaotic start. That was then | :08:44. | :08:44. | |
overcome by events and chaotic start. That was then | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
appearance any way of military success. But behind the scenes I'm | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
told with Michael Gove, he was very gung ho for that, and really | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
self-avowed neo-Conservative, William Hague had much more adopted | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
the different view of the world. It was Michael Gove in the inner | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
councils more than William Hague, and people have gone saying for the | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
last few months he had checked out and gone native in the Foreign | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
Office. He's not an idea lowing, d idealogue, he has grassroots link, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
which David Cameron will miss. But he will have it for the next nine | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
months, he will miss it afterwards. He's not an idealogue, there is a | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
strong streak of pragmatisim about him. Philip Hammond's appointment, | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
if that is who becomes Foreign Secretary is interesting. He is, I | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
think, more euro-sceptic th William Hague, possibly less reliably an | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
ally of the Chancellor and the Prime Minister. He's more his own person | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
than William Hague who was much part of the team. So he's less reliable | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
how he will come out. It is an interesting I think introduction to | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
any negotiations that take place in Europe if they win. He comes from | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
harder line. We will see right and left coming in here, what do you | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
think, Allegra was mentioning the European Court of Human Rights, if | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
you look at the swathe of men all going out they were all advocates? | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Yes, and I suppose moving William Hague, there was a suspicion he had | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
gone native at the Foreign Office and I bumped into a senior | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
euro-sceptic earlier in parliament when rumours that Owen Patterson had | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
been sacked for circulating. He was furious saying we don't have one of | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
us in the higher ranks of Government any more. Who is that? Someone in a | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
euro-sceptics' point of view who hasn't gone native or taking the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Whitehall mandarin line on Europe. If you listen to William Hague's | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
speeches on Europe at the Conservative Party Conferences he | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
was no long ermine mallist, he talked about using Europe to tackle | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
climate change, which a lot of politicians may agree but | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
euro-sceptic didn't. He was elected leader in 1997 as the euro-sceptic | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
candidate, part of Europe but not run by Europe, but in the end he's | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
seen as the Foreign Office man and not euro-sceptic enough. It is not | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
quite enough, that last sentence is correct. There is a move among | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
euro-sceptics, there are more euro-sceptics in favour of leaving. | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
And William Hague's position has never been that. He has been in | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
favour of being in Europe but not run by Europe. That red meat | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
position was not enough for the Tory Party today. This awful phrase, | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
"pale, steal, male", there is the whole catalogue of the middle-aged | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
man leaving? It is generational. Look at the people who left. They | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
were worried that David Cameron was stepping over them to be leader. | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Many supported David Davis, for generational leaders, for the reason | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
this reshuffle would happen one day. At the end of the parliament when | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
you haven't reshuffled and you have a five-year parliament, people will | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
think what will I do with the next five years. David Willett has | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
decided if he doesn't want to be an MP for the next five years I can't | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
stay in the reshuffle, he has gone of his on volition. That has | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
happened to a few people. But it is generational as well as anything | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
else. Are the young and female there, I don't know why I'm asking | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
you, that is unfair, I happened to catch your eye? There are impressive | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
female Tory MPs, Cameron is lucky, he knows he has to promote women, | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
and he can look to the backbenches and see good prospects. The good | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
news about people he could be promoting, such as Priti Patel, they | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
are not just good women but robust euro-sceptics. If they are looking | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
for someone to satisfy the euro-sceptics you have those on the | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
backbenches as well. That is the interesting, you will get hardcore | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
Thatcherites and euro-sceptics. Mr Fox is coming back? It will please | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
those about Owen Patterson? Not all of them, some are unhappy about him | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
coming back. It is a taint and he left under a big cloud and that is a | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
Di Canio of worms. I was talking about diversity, it is not just | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
about gender, Sajid Javid and Priti Patel. This is good for a | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
Conservative Party want to go stay in tough with Britain. The left will | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
say it is window dressing. Will the voter notice? Most people don't know | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
who the people are, they don't therefore care whether they move | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
from one position to another. I think it does matter of course the | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
balance of women and men for example that matters. And generational | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
matters. But the most important thing is where will it leave the | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
Government, therefore you have to analyse Philip Hammond's promotion | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
in substantive terms, what difference will it actually make to | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
policy. I think there definitely will be a shift from William Hague. | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
If you mention the European Court of Human Rights, you have people who | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
would have been custodians and protectors of that Keneth Clarke, | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Damien Greening, they are now out, you wonder if that is preparing a | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
manifesto promise to scrap Britain's involvement in the European | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
convention and scrap the Human Rights Act and bring something else | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
in its place. Thank you very much for coming in. | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
4. 29pm, history was made, the three houses of the Anglican bishops, | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
Clergy and Laity, all vote today allow women to become bishops, a | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
perfect Church of England moment. A radical ground-breaking move greeted | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
by the synod in the halls a gentle clap befitting of a Sunday afternoon | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
cricket team. It is not the first time it was put to the vote but the | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
first time it was one. The big question, what has changed within | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
the church, its leadership and society. What happens to those who | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
fundamentally disagree with such a month. We speak live to the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
Archbishop of Canterbury in a moment. On my first Sunday service | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
in the parish, which is a parish with a tradition of saying "father" | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
i toad in front of them in -- I stood in front of them in my robes | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
and I said it is clearly obvious I'm not father. For Reverend Rose, the | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
decision on bishops has been far too long in the making. It is 22 years | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
since women were allowed to become priests. Back then Reverend Rose was | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
there campaigning. I went to one of these sign-maker places and got them | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
to make the sign up for me. When they asked me what are you putting | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
on it I wrote there and then, "women beautifully and wonderfully made in | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
the image of God". Today they were made equal in the Church of England | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
too. Cheers everybody. Women will be welcomed into the top ranks. And the | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
momentous vote got the bishops up for a boogie. | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
# We are dancing in the light of God # We are dancing in the light of God | :15:43. | :15:50. | |
I'm not sure whether it is John servicing the alarm... Far away from | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
the General Synod, one of the favourites to become the first | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
female bishop was busy getting on with the mundaneties of life as a | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
parish priest. What else have you put in? Loo, I'm | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
really excited. You have to see the loos. I will be known as the vicar | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
who put in first class loos claim! We spent the day with a vicar who | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
knows what matters? I'm exceptionally proud of the toilets | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
that we have put in, exceptionally proud. Nice. Would a male priest | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
have thought about putting in the loos? Ha ha. I will be upset because | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
I don't think it is the way that the church should move, I think that it | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
disadvantages us in so many ways. As the synod debated an issue that has | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
divided Anglicans for decades, we invited an opponent of the | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
ordination of women to meet Rose and a parishioner. You don't support the | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
women bishops? No. You think as a woman I can come to you as a bishop | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
and you could help me more than a woman could? Not at all. Because I | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
think at the heart of being a bishop isn't all of the day-to-day things | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
that people do, it is about being that focus for unity. You were | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
talking about women in ministry, I want to see women in ministry, I | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
don't think you have to put a collar around your neck to put a woman in | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
ministry. You see yourselves asset apart in this holy order that nobody | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
else in particular, a woman, can ever be a part of because of our | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
gender. I don't think that I'm set apart in a way that makes me better | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
than anybody else in the church. I think that I have a particular role | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
in the church, which is to celebrate the sacraments as a priest, I don't | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
think that is any more or less important than somebody being the | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
chair of a charity in the church, or chair of the PCC or | :17:41. | :17:42. | |
chair of a charity in the church, or why have we decided that the priest | :17:43. | :17:43. | |
is the why have we decided that the priest | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
anyone else. Well I certainly don't think so, but what I certainly | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
believe is that I also have been called to celebrate the sacrament, | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
and because of my gender, for such a long time, the church caught up with | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
the tradition and th cultural practices have actually said women | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
can't and we bought into that for such a long time. I have to say you | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
are not at a disadvantage if you are not ordained, I don't believe that | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
because I have a collar around my neck I'm more important than other | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
people in the church, than lay people. But you are perceived as | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
more important and as the most important in this church? That is | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
why I think the focus should have been correcting the clericalism of | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
the church. As her colleagues prepared to take the historic vote, | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
we accompanied Reverend Rose to her other job. She's Speaker's Chaplain | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
in the House of Commons, it is a role that comes with its own | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
dresser. I certainly have no ambition or desire to be a bishop. | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
My greatest ambition was actually to meet Desmond Tutu and Nelson | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
Mandela, I have achieved my ambition in the church. I have had my great | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
experience, Lord, now let that servant depart in peace! The motion | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
has been carried in all three houses. Today's vote means someone, | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
if not Reverend Rose will be first, England could get a female bishop by | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
the end of the year. I feel like singing the song that they sang when | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
Barack Obama was "change gonna come... It has been a long time | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
coming. I think this is a moment for the church to look at and say now | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
let's get on with it. Let's get on with it. Joining us now from York | :19:28. | :19:36. | |
the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welsby. Thank you very much indeed | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
for joining us this evening. What do you think changed to allow the vote | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
to go through? I think quite a lot of things changed. There was a real | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
sense of gentleness and grace in the way it worked over the last few | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
months. There has been much more listening to each other, much more | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
conversation. Much more graciousness, much more willingness | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
to treat each other in a human way. That's been a major cultural change | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
in the way the church has worked. Do you think this will be | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
transformative to the church as a whole? Yes, I do. I think it will be | :20:12. | :20:20. | |
transformative, I think there is two particular aspects to that. I'm | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
delighted personally that we are going to ordain women as bishops. | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
That is something I have been looking forward to very, very much. | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
And it is hugely exciting. But at the same time I'm aware that there | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
are a lot of people who will be struggling with this. And I think | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
you have one of them on your programme a few moments ago. The two | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
changes, one we have made the decision to do it, but the second is | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
that the way we're going to do it is to hold everyone together. To treat | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
people as family not as party groups in which you chuck out the people | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
you disagree with. It is the opposite. To enable, we're committed | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
to enabling everyone to flourish, that is really important. Let me ask | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
you, when you were putting forward the arguments, you said the general | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
public would find it incomprehensible that we can't have | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
women bishops. It is interesting you talk about the general public. I'm | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
wondering if you think that the church is influenced by societal | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
norms then. If society changes the church must? That is two questions. | :21:22. | :21:32. | |
It is a very good question. I think to some degree all churches are | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
always influenced by the culture in which they live. Because everyone | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
who comes to the church is part of that culture. But it was very | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
interesting to me today, listening to the very long debate, that it was | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
essentially about theology, more than about culture. That argument | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
was not one that came forward very strongly, it was a question of what | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
is right before God in obedience to yes suss Christ -- obedience to | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
Jesus Christ, loving one each other and the society we live. Of course | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
we are influenced by society, but it was a theologically-based decision. | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
If you use some of those phrases "loving one another" and "loving the | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
society in which we live", we know it has taken 25 years to get to | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
women priests. Will it be OK for a gay bishop to engage in a regular | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
active sex life in 25 years or sooner, using those same arguments | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
you just put forward? Today has been about the ordination of women to the | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
Church of England. We are starting conversations which are going to be | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
guided conversations over the issues of sexuality and I'm really not | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
going to get into that, because it would be pre-empting the decisions. | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
But it feels like you would support that on a personal level, would you? | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
As I say I'm not going to get into it. I think we have a long way to go | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
as part of the guided conversations and no predetermined outcome and I'm | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
just quietly delighting in what's happened today in the affirmation of | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
women across the country and the Church of England and in the fact | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
that the church has come together so well. I think a lot of people will | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
have sympathy with your position on this, which you said was you know | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
confused in its own way. When you are guiding those conversations how | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
are you guiding them. I think you once said the church has not been | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
good at dealing with homophobia, we have empolice Italy and even | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
supported homophobia that demands repentance. Are we to read n I | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
understand -- empolice Italy and even supported homophobia. Is today | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
about modernising the church, where are you guiding those conversations | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
and I understand today is about women bishops? The conversations are | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
guided, I'm glad to say, not by me, but by the House of bishops and all | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
those in the church. It is something where we are learning to treat each | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
other better than we did. You ask the change, the biggest change in | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
the last 20 months has been the way we treat each other, and the way we | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
are learning to treat people we disagree with. As we go forward with | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
the discussion on sexuality, it is that quality of discussion of love | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
and affection for one another that will be absolutely crucial. Of | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
course it is difficult, life is difficult, there is no point in | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
pretending otherwise, there is disagreements. It is wonderful when | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
you get to an evening like this and there is a decision being taken and | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
you can delight not just in the decision, but in the fact that it | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
has been done well and then face the challenge as we go forward of other | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
decisions, discussions we have to have. But also the huge challenge of | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
delivering what we have promised this evening. And above all of | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
delivering the church in its ministry in the world. The bishops | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
are deeply deeply committed to that. When people look to the church for | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
leadership, on the other issues that surround them, for example not gay | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
Clergy but gay marriage, is that somewhere that you feel you are | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
arriving at too? That you could see gay marriages being a positive way | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
to live life? Well, as I have said, a couple of times so fashion and we | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
can go round and round that circle, this evening is really about what's | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
been going on today and I don't want to begin to pre-empt those | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
discussions. Lord Carey said this weekend on the question of right to | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
die and assisted dying that he thought we were in danger of putting | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
doctrine before compassion, and I wonder if you feel that sometimes, | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
again going back to what society is looking for in the norms, whether | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
the church feels held back by those dogmas and doctrines when you | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
yourself have said it is agonising to watch in pain die? It is actually | :26:11. | :26:24. | |
Lord Carey is entitled to speak. It is a major debate going on. He has | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
helped turn that into a much higher profile debate and that is a very, | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
very good thing. Because this is a hugely important question for many | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
of us. And like myself in my own personal experience, as well as my | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
experience as a priest, like loads of friends, we have all got, you | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
have probably got, that we have all had this experience of dealing with | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
people who are, who have the most severe illness and near the end of | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
their life. This isn't a question of doctrine, it is a question of | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
compassion. Lord Carey said it was compassion for the particular person | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
dying, all our Pastoral experience and all the church's Pastoral | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
experience of compassion for people in terrible circumstances is that | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
there is such a risk, such a huge risk of mistreatment, of | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
manipulation, that we are very, very cautious about approaches to | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
assisted dying. It has to be a proper debate. We have to work | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
through the evidence and the issues, but as I wrote over the weekend in | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
one paper, that this is not a difference between one group of | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
people with a hardline of doctrine and another group of people who are | :27:41. | :27:42. | |
saying we have to be compassionate. It is actually saying how we are | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
compassionate and for what it is worth I think that the way he has | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
described compassion is written far too narrowly and with a lack of | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
appreciation for the risk and dangers to people who would be put | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
under pressure if the law changed. That's why we are so against it. You | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
think it would lead to a lot of people dying before they needed to? | :28:06. | :28:14. | |
I think what it leads to is manipulation. I was a parish priest, | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
a curate and a parish priest for ten years and was taking 70 funerals a | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
year average at least. There were some where the families were | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
wonderful and marvellous and others which were pretty grim and others | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
where you were conscious that there was a level of difficulty going on | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
if someone is very ill and they are often going to be depressed, they | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
are often going to be in pain. And they say to their family I'm sure | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
I'm a bit of a burden. You can say of course not, we love you, we value | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
you, we want to care for you, or you can say well we can manage and you | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
can do it in such a way that it creates a sense that the person | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
really feels that the right thing to do is to seek to die. I'm afraid it | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
is a harsh reality, not everyone is nice, not every family is | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
compassionate. And people struggling with terminal illness, with very | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
painful illness with the appalling cases. We have seen and heard about | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
that recently that we have all had to deal with as priest, and often in | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
our own families. I was talking to a bishop the other day who was saying | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
it would have put him under so much pressure. It is very good indeed to | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
talk to you, thank you very much indeed. | :29:40. | :29:48. | |
The Government has talked a big game on tackling tax avoidance in recent | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
years, putting more money into tax inspectors and making big rule | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
changes. Tomorrow is a big development. We are here to explain. | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
Chris tell us what is happening? It is good to see where women are | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
firing out their biggest antitax weapon. They will list a thousand | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
tax avoidance schemes which tens of thousands of members, and those | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
members will be subject to a new thing called the accelerated payment | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
notice. It used to be a case of what HMRC thought was a dodgy tax | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
arrangement, they could take it to court and get the tax back. Under | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
the new process, the accelerated payment process, what happens is | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
they say you are in a dodgy tax scheme what will happen is you will | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
pay us the money and then you can take us to court to get the | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
difference back. So what it does is makes investing in what might be a | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
slightly shady tax avoidance scheme a much nastier proposition. I guess | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
the sort of big political question on all of this is how it will play | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
out. To the extend to which this is a measure that hits very rich famous | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
people possibly, people who don't like comedians we don't think are | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
funny. Nobody will mind. The problem will be when you get tens of | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
thousands of people in your net, you will get some innocent people in | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
there, there are people who have been mis-sold investments in what | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
are effectively tax avoidance products, not really clocking what | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
they were. We came across one in a Newsnight investigation, where | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
people who were hopelessly inadequate to take on the risk we | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
were taking were taking them on. The real challenge for HMRC is how it | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
affects people who shouldn't have been doing it for lots of reasons | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
while making sure it gets money back and it is fair from the richest. We | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
will know more tomorrow. You will. The mother of a vulnerable teenager, | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
who took her own life, after she was arrested, has told this programme | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
her daughter may still be alive if the law had been changed. . As | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
things stand 17-year-olds can be held in police cells overnight as | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
adults, despite a High Court ruling saying they should be given the same | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
rights as children. The families of three teenagers who died shortly | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
after leaving custody have written to the Home Secretary today | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
criticising what they say are the false promises made after the | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
judgment last year. Some of this report may be upsetting. She was | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
talented confident and loving, that was the main thing. She was | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
fun-loving, adventurous, outgoing, beautiful, I just miss her so much. | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
Six months ago Martina's daughter took her own life. She had suffered | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
from depression since the age of 12. Missing lessons, spending time in | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
hospital. She was extremely vulnerable as a 17-year-old. She had | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
a history of self-harm, she had a history of depression, she actually | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
spent some time in hospital with mental health issues. So in terms of | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
vulnerability she was an incredibly vulnerable young girl. On a Saturday | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
afternoon before Christmas, she was arrested at a flat with a small | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
amount of cannabis. She was brought to the police station in Ashton, one | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
of the largest in Manchester. If she had been 16 years old she would have | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
been interviewed here and then sent to a secure children's home, or | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
another form of local authority care. Instead, as a 17-year-old she | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
was treated as an adult, and held in a police cell for three days and two | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
nights, waiting for her court appearance. That, say campaigners, | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
was a clear breach of human rights law, which should treat all | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
under-18s as children. The difference between a police cell and | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
local authority secure accommodation is huge, there are trained staff in | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
local authority places, social workers, people who can care for the | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
welfare of a vulnerable person who would take that person to court and | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
look after their well being. The job of the police is really to detain | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
and prevent phoning. Those children do need that protection. Exactly | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
what happened in that cell we do not know. Greater Manchester Police say | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
they can't comment while an investigation is on going. But as | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
with other forces they are not currently allowed to transfer | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
17-year-olds to local authority care. After a weekend locked up she | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
was taken to court and bailed, her parents say they were not told she | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
had been released. A day later she was found dead. Hanged in a friend's | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
back garden. I don't think she would have coped with it. I don't think | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
she would have coped and that's why we have come to the outcome that we | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
have come to today. I think she would have been distraught. I think | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
that the head banging and the hair pulling would have been the only way | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
she thought she could deal with it. She should have got help while she | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
was in the police station. She shouldn't have been released without | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
contacting anybody. And the whole thing is a total disgrace. It is | :35:06. | :35:14. | |
wrong. It is wrong. It is just destroyed us. It has destroyed me as | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
a mother and the whole family. Totally devastated by the loss of | :35:20. | :35:27. | |
Kesia. It is a total shock, even though we knew she had problems. It | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
is just, I mean you can't describe the pain and the heartbreak that we | :35:36. | :35:37. | |
felt and that we're still feeling. the pain and the heartbreak that we | :35:38. | :35:48. | |
There are no words. Kesia is one of a number of 17-year-olds, all from | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
Manchester to die recently in very similar circumstances. In 2011 | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
former head boy Eddie Thornbur killed himself after being caught | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
with 50p worth of Dan business. A year later Joe shot himself on the | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
family firm, two nights earlier he was held overnight for | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
drink-driving. The families of both boys were at the High Court last | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
year when the judge ruled the Government was breaking the law by | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
treating them as adults, as a result the Home Office did make some | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
limited changes. Parents are now informed if a 17-year-old is | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
detained by the police. But crucially, wider reform, including | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
rules on when a cell should be used were put off until an internal | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
review can be completed. That still hasn't happened. Today the families | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
of all three teenagers sent a letter to Theresa May demanding she finish | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
the work she started. They paid lip service to the court. They did | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
absolutely the bare minimum, which to me is not right. You can't | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
understand really why they wouldn't change t you are talking about our | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
17-year-old children. You know, it is this sort of element of well when | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
we're ready. Well it is already going to be too late for three | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
children. The Home Office said this evening it will carefully consider | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
the letter, and respond in due course. Three teenagers are dead, | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
nothing can bring them back, but for the families involved this is still | :37:26. | :37:35. | |
a fight very much worth having. He is white with red hair, crudely | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
put, but today the singer Ed Sheeran was named the most important act in | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
black and urban music but the power list calling itself the leading | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
black music radio station, the list itself in which three of the top | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
four acts are white has been criticised as the saddest list in | :37:55. | :38:04. | |
human history by Wily. Has the English music scene gone backwards | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
or changed in how it sees music and colour. | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
Let's see where your favourites came in the One Extra Power List. | :38:18. | :38:27. | |
Rudamental number one, banker's son Sam Smith at four, Tine Tempa at 3 | :38:28. | :38:51. | |
and then Ed Sheeran at three. He's already so big that he has his own | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
body double. 23-year-old Sheeran from Yorkshire has written for One | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
Direction and tailor Swift, and collaborating here with Pharrell | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
here. But not everyone is satisfied that | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
One Extra has come correct with its poll, take Wiley, he has had this to | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
say on social media. I have never been influenced by a white artist to | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
make black music, #never. We have been bumped, not taking anything | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
away from Ed, he's sick, but black artists in England are getting | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
bumped. It was very controversial, it is no surprise to me, but always | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
the case in this country it is white artists who have dominated coming to | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
black music. It seems to be a more palatable version and more | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
acceptable version of the music in this country. Let's refresh our | :39:52. | :40:03. | |
memory about One Extra's mission statement. The remit is to play the | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
best in contemporary black music with a strong emphasis on live music | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
and supporting new UK artists. I can't understand how a radio station | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
promoting black music playing black music and urban music had a list | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
that didn't resemble the people that largely create that music and | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
culture. It was a state of confusion. That is not to say that | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
anybody on the list didn't deserve to be there because of their talent. | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
But we have to think about how we title the list and what we are | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
actually trying to promote. 1 Xtra presenter Twin B helped to compile | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
the station's powerlist. One thing we are not about is race, it is | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
about supporting music that fits what we do. The DJs have a big part | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
on what gets played on air. And Ed Sheeran has been championed across | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
the station from the beginning of his career. Do you need to rebrand | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
the statement and get away from the idea that it is a contemporary black | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
station? More people to need to listen to it to understand what we | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
do and understand the landscape of music as well. There is an award for | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
you, it is 1 Xtra Powerlist, number one Ed Sheeran So Sheeran is the the | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
first recipient of the bauble, perhaps they should call it the one | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
sie. My guest has collaberated with Ed | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
Sheeran and the chief music critic of the Guardian is with us. We are | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
not questioning talent. But when you hear the grime artist Wily say -- | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
Wiley say this is the saddest music list in history, can you hear what | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
he's getting to? I hear it but it is changed and interpreted wrongly. The | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
list was a power list, they never said a blacklist or urban list. They | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
said a power list. From my experience Ed was championed by 1 | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
Xtra first, he is influenced by black music. He himself wouldn't say | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
he's influenced to it, but influenced by it. Which as well as | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
every other music. Are you happy with him being the number one on the | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
list of you know most important act in black and urban music, that | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
sounds crazy doesn't it? It is beyond colour, this is art. And you | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
can't segregate it like that. He's the one person that I know that can | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
work with tailor Swift to -- Taylor Swift to Rick Ross, one is white and | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
one black, and it is beyond that. There is something in that, that we | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
have transcended the discussion of what colour music is and just gone | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
with who it is? You would think we would have got past the idea that | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
something is black and white music, it is an unfortunate list because 1 | :43:01. | :43:08. | |
Xtra brands itself as a black and urban music, and urban is a | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
euphamism for black. Will it mean anything other? The question is | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
where is music now, music is without colour really. The popular music we | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
listen to is blended across hip hop, urban music, club music, dance | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
music, chart music. Everyone is listening to all this stuff and | :43:27. | :43:37. | |
blended together. Where does Ed Sheeran sit in that? He siting | :43:38. | :43:46. | |
across it, his hip hop and rhyming is black, and it does sit across the | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
genres. If you are a young black artist looking for a niche station | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
to support young black artists to be told that red is the blue black is | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
fairly disappointing. Is it about class, when you look at Disclosure | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
and Sam Smith, the son of a banker, is it not about colour but about... | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
? Not at all, it is about music, Disclosure, house music, created by | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
black guy, that is nothing to do with whether it is a white guy | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
creating it, as long as you pay homage to where it was created and | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
appreciate the music, I'm happy with polka dot people with stripes doing | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
it. What about the station, is it about time to stop having a station | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
that thinks about having about time to stop having a station | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
that supports it? 1 Xtra supports black artists, me and many others, | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
and Ed Sheeran did come from that, black artists, me and many others, | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
the collaborations and EP, and people he has worked with. It is | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
only the further stuff that has taken him further along, acoustic. | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
Black artists do struggle, they are underrepresented in popular music in | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
the major white countries of Britain and America, they need some | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
infrastructure and support. That is what 1 Xtra was invented for. It is | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
stuck with the fact that it wants to play music that people are listening | :45:07. | :45:16. | |
to. If you look at the US Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith are number one and two | :45:17. | :45:27. | |
in the charts. Iggy Ezelia is a white rapper from Australia, and | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
generic, it is the Elvis syndrome, if we can find a white artist to do | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
black music. She mimics an accent? She puts on an American accent, and | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
she puts on the style that she is a white rapper. That is a big | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
impetuous in the music industry. I believe the point when I sit down | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
and say yes there should be a lot more support for black artists in | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
general. However, I want to kind of, that is a whole other subject we can | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
talk about for days. We will invite you next time. Thank you for coming | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
in. That's it for tonight. We leave you with the Nobel Prize winning | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
author and freedom campaigner Nadine Gordimer whose death was announced. | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
She talk to Hardtalk programme and asked if she ever wished she had | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
become a writer away from the backdrop of apartheid, here is her | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
answer. I think people concentrate on the political aspects. But in my | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
many books personal relations, which you have got nothing to do with | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
politics or are influenced them, but they are there. To me writing, | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
either mine or anyone else's, it is a discovery of life, it is an | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
attempt to discover what human life is about. And if you live in a | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
country where there is a lot of conflict, of course that will have a | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
bearing upon it. But if you are a real writer you can make the death | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
of a canary striking. We will see thicker cloud and patchy | :47:11. | :47:40. | |
rain clearing away from the south-east corner, most dry, good | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
sunny spells. A few isolated showers in Northern Ireland and Scotland, | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
barely a handful, most avoiding it staying dry, a bit more | :47:53. | :47:53. |