11/07/2014 Newsnight


11/07/2014

With Emily Maitlis. Gaza. Immigration rules and marriage. The man who lost his memory. Football and war. Same sex ballroom dancing.


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Transcript


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Putting a price on married life, today the court upheld a minimum

:00:00.:00:10.

income requirement for a foreign spouse to enter this country. I

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still can't believe this is happening in Britain. Tonight we

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meet the families torn apart by the Home Office ruling. He missed her

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learning to crawl, he missed her learning to walk, I couldn't believe

:00:24.:00:30.

that here in England the rights of a British child were so, not even

:00:31.:00:35.

neglected, but just ignored. This man can't remember his name and

:00:36.:00:38.

doesn't know anything about his own life. What is amnesia, and how does

:00:39.:00:44.

it work? We will meet the woman whose childhood memories were wiped

:00:45.:00:48.

away. Is football the continuation of politics by other means.

:00:49.:00:53.

Historian Dan Snow has a theory. It is not like we didn't see it coming.

:00:54.:01:01.

The Italians have been hungry for retribution since Boudica destroyed

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their ninth legion thousands of years ago. And this. Does it upset

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you to see two men dancing together. Good evening, we go first tonight to

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the developing situation in Gaza. The Israeli Prime Minister, Binyamin

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Netanyahu has said no amount of international pressure will stop

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Israel from acting with all its power against what he calls a terror

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organisation in Gaza. A grim milestone was crossed today as the

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Palestinian health ministry reported more than 100 dead since the bombing

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began four days ago. Our diplomatic editor is with us

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now. Given Netenyahu's response, what does that say for any US

:01:51.:01:55.

mediation now? Well what we have heard tonight is that it hasn't

:01:56.:01:58.

begun in any real sense. That means that Mr Netenyahu still has days in

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which to try to destroy the Hamas and other armed groups

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infrastructure as he would call it in Gaza. There are some issues too,

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even when the Americans do become more seriously engaged

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diplomatically. Firstly, there is the practical problem they classify

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Hamas as a terrorist organisation, and they generally held to the line

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that they don't conduct negotiations with them, some method would have to

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be found to do that. Then there is the bigger question of what does

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Hamas want in this? Earlier this evening I spoke to former US Middle

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East negotiator, Robert Denine. It came into this conflict very weak

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politically and economically, it seems to want to reassert itself

:02:44.:02:50.

within Palestinian politics, within Gaza and within Palestine at large,

:02:51.:02:53.

that is in the West Bank as well. And to a certain extent it has

:02:54.:02:57.

achieved that aim, although the question of how does it sustain it

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if it agrees to a ceasefire? Meanwhile, as we have said the death

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toll in Gaza is rising? Yes, it topped 100 this morning. Now for

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example people make comparisons with two previous periods of violence,

:03:11.:03:17.

2009 and 2012, it is getting closer to the 2012 total. That went on for

:03:18.:03:23.

2009 and 2012, it is getting closer Israelis have mounted their strikes

:03:24.:03:26.

the easy pickings, if you like, the guys firing rockets off the beach,

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the things that can be engaged without any real risk of civilian

:03:30.:03:34.

casualties have gone. They start to hit inside the town, the

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Palestinians of course try to protect some of their surviving

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weaponry by moving it close to people and we see more and more

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houses bombed in the last 24 hours. With all the risk of something like

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a school or centre full of people being hit. The Palestinians of

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course from their point of view, they want to be seen to be answering

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back forcefully, not to be cowed, they have been firing rockets back

:03:57.:04:00.

into Israel. So far the Israelis have not suffered a fatality in

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this. We have had casualties today, a petrol station was hit by

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Palestinian rockets, spectacular blaze and people wounded. They have

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also had people wounded in Beersheba, the southern city

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tonight. Another thing that may encourage the Israelis to continue,

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and the other thing is are they considering going in on the ground

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as well? Stragically or perception wise it

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must be a point where it becomes counter-productive for the Israelis?

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A ground attack as in 2009 would cause more than ten-times the

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Palestinian casualties, well that one z than in this episode of

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violence between the two sides. It ratchets things up massively.

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Potentially, although Israelis talk about finishing off this problem. It

:04:54.:04:57.

means reoccupying and readministering the Gaza strip, and

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the Israelis don't want to do that. Even if they stop short of that, and

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carry on with bombardment for the next few days, they run various

:05:05.:05:08.

risk, they don't want to be seen to be afraid of those, but equally

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there are risk, for example you get big regional players like Turkey,

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they have been trying to improve relations. Turkey one of the few

:05:16.:05:19.

countries that could be talking to Hamas as part of a solution, well

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today the Prime Minister of Turkey said reproachment with Israel, some

:05:27.:05:33.

he will Kate diplomacy going on in the last few years on hold. Here is

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Mr Erdinc. Recep Tayyip Erdogan. TRANSLATION: We can't have a

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positive attitude about the process while our brothers in Gaza are being

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killed and bombed. Israel must establish the ceasefire and stop

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shooting. So these are critical days ahead really. The next few days, I

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think, will show whether there will be a ground operation, or whether

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the US can engage diplomatically, possibly through Turkey or Qatar,

:06:07.:06:11.

one of the countries that closely speaks to Hamas and get some sort of

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ceasefire on the table. How much should you have to earn

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before you are allowed to get married? The question may sound

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absurd, it is absurd, but for the many Britons who marry somebody from

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overseas or outside the EU it is entirely relevant. Today the Court

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of Appeal backed up a Home Office ruling that set a minimum income

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threshold of ?18,a 500. The Home Office says these marriages must not

:06:38.:06:41.

be established in the UK at the tax-payers' expense. Those on the

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wrong side of it ask why their need to share their life with their loved

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ones comes at such a high price. Higher? Higher. I still can't

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believe this is happening in Britain. I don't feel we deserved t

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I don't feel that anyone deserves to have their family effectively

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exiled. Your life whilst this appeal is going on is on hold. We're so

:07:13.:07:20.

strong as a couple, and we will just keep fighting until the end. Two

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years ago ministers tightened the rules, making it harder for a

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British citizen to bring a husband or wife into the country from

:07:29.:07:34.

outside the EU. Since then our courts have been locked in a tussle

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between the right to protect our borders and the right to a family

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life. Olivia is half British and half Ecuadorian, her mother, Lizzie,

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was teaching English in South America when she met the local

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doctor she would go on to marry. The new family wanted to start a new

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life in Britain. I just felt really confident that he was going to get

:08:00.:08:02.

the visa, I couldn't see any reason why he wouldn't, because we were

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legally married with a British marriage certificate. This is the

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entry clearance officer's refusal notice. This is when we learned that

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we were being refused in March. How did you feel at that point?

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Devastated, I just completely broke down. I was trying to, I remember my

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husband saying and sending me the e-mail and reading it on-line while

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he was watching me on Skype and I just read through it and I was like

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that's OK look up and say it is all right, this is just a blip and will

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be sorted out in a couple of week, don't worry we will be fine. And I

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looked up and just... Tears. Just couldn't do anything. For a UK

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citizen like Lizzie to bring her husband into the country, she now

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has to earn ?18,600 a year, her husband's income isn't taken into

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account. The Government says the new rule will drive down net migration,

:09:00.:09:03.

cut the benefit bill and promote integration. But the level of income

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needed is set above the full-time minimum wage. Just under half of

:09:09.:09:13.

British people in employment would not be earning enough annually to

:09:14.:09:18.

sponsor a family migrant under this policy. Among certain groups among

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women it is a much higher proportion, 60 per cent plus. It is

:09:24.:09:31.

higher outside London where a lower or minimum wage goes a longer way.

:09:32.:09:40.

Arlene moved from the Philippines to Great Yarmouth to work in a care

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home and study. She met Stephen and two years later they married, just

:09:45.:09:49.

after the new law came in. When we take the vow as a married couple, it

:09:50.:09:56.

says for richer for poorer, in sick he is, until death do us part. He

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can't live without me as well. And it is killing us both. Stephen

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hasn't been earning enough to keep Arlene in the country. She's now

:10:09.:10:12.

fighting a deportation order. The Government set this target of

:10:13.:10:16.

reducing overall net migration in this country, and it would argue

:10:17.:10:21.

that this is one way of doing it? Surely if that is the case then we

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would close our border to EU countries coming in. Around 30,000

:10:26.:10:30.

couples applied for a partner visa every year. Half from Asia, with the

:10:31.:10:34.

largest numbers from Pakistan and India. One in three is now rejected,

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a number that has doubled as the new rules have come into force. It is

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perfectly legitimate for a Government to try to pursue a very

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popular policy of returning immigration to more moderate levels

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and family reunion is the third largest in-flow into Britain. I

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think the path the Government has thought -- in the past the

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Government has thought there is abuse in the channel and the system

:11:03.:11:06.

hasn't encouraged integration, particularly in the case of spouses

:11:07.:11:10.

coming in from the Indian sub-continent, and has led to some

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cases of welfare dependency. This is a letter I wrote to the Prime

:11:14.:11:20.

Minister, from the perspective of Olivia, "please help, I can't have

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computer Pahad, this makes us very sad. These are my shoes now, I'm

:11:26.:11:29.

eight months older, our court date is one year and one month after we

:11:30.:11:37.

applied for a visa". In South America Lizzie had been working in

:11:38.:11:41.

bank earning a good local wage, but converted into pounds that wasn't

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enough to meet the earnings target and bring her husband back to

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Britain. He missed her learning to crawl. He missed her learning to

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walk. I couldn't believe that here in England the rights of a British

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child were so, not even neglected but just ignored. Completely. I was

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child were so, not even neglected furious. I felt like I didn't even

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child were so, not even neglected recognise this country any more. For

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Stephen it is all about proving he has hit the income threshold. He

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needs to show six months of earnings above that for an appeal to be

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successful. You have to earn the money, just to keep going at the

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moment, and with the cost of barristers and solicitors, you know,

:12:26.:12:29.

earning I'm earning is going towards them. But she's worth it at the end

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of the day. Last year the Home Office lost part of a test case, the

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High Court ruled it set the income target at a level that was

:12:40.:12:44.

disproportionate and unjustified. Today in the Court of Appeal that

:12:45.:12:49.

ruling was reversed. Three judges said immigration policy should be

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left up to the Home Secretary, not the courts. The Home Office decided

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to put all applications on hold, spending the Court of Appeal's

:12:58.:13:00.

judgment, obviously today the Government has won, so that's a blow

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to those who are hoping that the High Court's judgment would be

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upheld. But it is only a battle that the Government has won, there is a

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wider war still going on and the individuals may take their case to

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the Supreme Court if they get permission to do so. The Government

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welcomed the ruling, saying migrants must be able to integrate and family

:13:19.:13:23.

life should not be established here at the tax-payers' expense. We're

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talking here about the right of an individual to marry who they choose,

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which seems a pretty basic right, but it is also a pretty basic right

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to live in a relatively stable country without very large levels of

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immigration, you might say, and clearly a lot of voters do think

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that. And simply the right to live in a relatively integrated society.

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Earlier this year, a breakthrough for Lizzie and her family. After

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working in a new job for six months the Home Office approved her

:13:55.:14:01.

husband's visa. It is like a huge weight has been lifted off my

:14:02.:14:07.

shoulders. I can sleep again, I can eat again. It is amazing, it is like

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life should have been a year ago. Lizzie's husband, Alexander is

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living in Devon and retraining as a British doctor. I can't recover the

:14:20.:14:24.

year that I lost with my daughter and my wife, my family. There is no

:14:25.:14:33.

money enough to pay me or my family because of this year. We lost a lot.

:14:34.:14:43.

I didn't marry her just to let the UK take her away from me, no, I

:14:44.:14:48.

married her for a reason, and she will be with me until the day I die.

:14:49.:14:52.

For others there is still uncertainty. Today's ruling is

:14:53.:14:57.

likely to be challenged in the Supreme Court. Until then thousands

:14:58.:15:00.

of couples will be told to earn more to pay their way, or to make a life

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outside this country. We asked the Home Secretary and the

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Immigration Minister if they would come on the programme to talk about

:15:12.:15:15.

today's ruling but they declined. His name is Robert, at least that's

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what the doctors have called him. He was found in a park, he speaks with

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a slight eastern European accent and seems good at sport. This much we

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know, all the rest is a mystery, even to him. The man is a victim of

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amnesia and can recall nothing about his own life. Doctors have warned

:15:33.:15:35.

that he faces a long road to recovery and that the symptoms he

:15:36.:15:40.

displays fit no conventional explanation. We will meet a woman

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who lost the first 20 years of her life to amnesia in a moment. First

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Robert's story. On the 18th of May the man in red

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here was found in a mark in Pete borrowing, dazed -- Peterborough,

:15:55.:15:59.

dazed and frustrated without identification to identify him. The

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police concerned about his state of mind took him to hospital, where he

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has been ever since. We know people who get amnesia of this kind, a

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psychogenic F uge. It is associated with depression, and people get them

:16:18.:16:21.

after major trauma. In Robert's case we don't know anything. Most amnesia

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is transient, in this case it is transient, that is what makes the

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case unusual. Robert can speak English, but with an accent,

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although he can read Russian and Lithuanian, he can't speak either

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language. He's hoping someone will see his picture and come forward to

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identify him. The hospital set up a helpline for people, and say they

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will carefully screen any call that comes in. Provan Susan Blackmore has

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worked in studies on identity and other issues. Our other guest lost

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20 years of memory and never regained them. It clearly wasn't

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transient for you, you describe it as having lost your history, what

:17:13.:17:17.

was that like? It was like having two parts of my life. It was in my

:17:18.:17:23.

early 20s this happened. Due to a seizure under medication I was on.

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So the whole 20 something years of my life just disappeared and didn't

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come back. I have had to rebuild it. When you look at pictures of

:17:33.:17:36.

yourself, or when you hear stories about yourself, does that trigger

:17:37.:17:44.

anything for you? Occasionally, it is like having photographic

:17:45.:17:49.

memories, the photographs don't bring back any emotions. Music can

:17:50.:17:53.

do that. I can hear something on the radio and that can bring back

:17:54.:17:56.

memories and emotions more than a photograph. What did you do then?

:17:57.:18:01.

You had to ask your mother about yourself or what you liked or what

:18:02.:18:06.

you, who your friends were, what happened? Well it was due to a

:18:07.:18:12.

seizure, and a few seizures on the medication I was on. It was my

:18:13.:18:20.

mother that brought me round a few times. And she had to tell me who

:18:21.:18:25.

she was and who I was and what I was doing, quite calmly and slowly.

:18:26.:18:30.

Extraordinary. When you hear Jo's story, can you be yourself without

:18:31.:18:36.

memory? That very evocative idea of having two separate lives there?

:18:37.:18:40.

Yeah. It is strange, isn't it? But as soon as we start to think about

:18:41.:18:46.

who am I, what is the self any way, things are very strange. I would

:18:47.:18:51.

think most people feel as though this is my body this is my arms and

:18:52.:18:56.

leg, I'm somewhere in here controlling this, I'm the conscious

:18:57.:19:00.

things who has free will and is aware. But if you actually look

:19:01.:19:06.

inside a brain you just find loads of neurons, there is no middle in

:19:07.:19:09.

the brain where I could be controlling things. Some how these

:19:10.:19:16.

billions of neurons and trillions of connections make this thing here

:19:17.:19:20.

feel like there is a self inside there is conscious. How does it do

:19:21.:19:23.

that? Memory is very important to that, it is not everything. One of

:19:24.:19:27.

the interesting things that we're hearing here is how, I believe her

:19:28.:19:33.

mother told her that her personality was similar in her earlier life, is

:19:34.:19:38.

that right? Jo, just explain that, did your mother say that you shared

:19:39.:19:42.

the same sort of innate characteristics during the next 20

:19:43.:19:47.

years as during the first 20? That's what she has told me, yes. I have to

:19:48.:19:54.

believe her! What does that mean, is it your sense of humour or the way

:19:55.:19:58.

you talk or is it the things that you like, what was the connection

:19:59.:20:01.

between the old self and the new self? I think probably the way I

:20:02.:20:07.

spoke didn't change. I didn't have to learn how to speak or write

:20:08.:20:11.

again, the brain decides what you can remember and what you can't

:20:12.:20:16.

remember in something like this. She has given two very good examples of

:20:17.:20:20.

things that would survive the loss of, what we are really talking about

:20:21.:20:25.

episodic memory, things that have happened to you. She can clearly

:20:26.:20:29.

remember skills and writing and speaking, those skills are stored in

:20:30.:20:33.

different parts of the brain from the episodic memory, the stories of

:20:34.:20:37.

your life. Those things can stay the same. You would be recoginsable to

:20:38.:20:41.

somebody else as being the same person, the same sense of humour and

:20:42.:20:45.

the same way you wave your arms and lots of things about your habits

:20:46.:20:49.

will be the same, even if you can't remember what happened yesterday.

:20:50.:20:53.

Does it make you vulnerable? Yes, I think it probably does. In certain

:20:54.:20:59.

circumstances if it is required of you to have some background and to

:21:00.:21:02.

be able to say things about who you were in the past, you will feel

:21:03.:21:06.

pretty, not like other people who can think they can remember a whole

:21:07.:21:11.

lot of their past. But in other situations it won't at all, because

:21:12.:21:16.

most of our life we don't have to think about our childhood F I

:21:17.:21:19.

couldn't remember the first 20 years of my life, in most circumstances

:21:20.:21:24.

that wouldn't matter. And Jo, let me ask you that question, do you feel

:21:25.:21:28.

vulnerable without those first 20 years, do you explain that to a lot

:21:29.:21:32.

of people or does it not actually impede what you do on daily basis? I

:21:33.:21:38.

think there is two answers to this, the first is I think many people,

:21:39.:21:44.

I'm in my early 40s now, many people have problems rembering their

:21:45.:21:47.

childhood any way. But the two people in my life that have really

:21:48.:21:51.

helped have been my best friend Nicky and my mother. I think my

:21:52.:21:56.

mother's helped me more with the childhood memories, and my best

:21:57.:22:00.

friend, with some of the teenage memories, which sometimes I don't

:22:01.:22:05.

want to remember! Have doctors told you there is any chance of that

:22:06.:22:09.

coming back now, or do they presume that after 20 years that is just

:22:10.:22:14.

gone? It is in there somewhere, I think the brain has it in there

:22:15.:22:21.

somewhere, it is just I can't recall it. Are there triggers or is music a

:22:22.:22:27.

trigger occasionally? Yes it can be, that can be a trigger for an

:22:28.:22:34.

emotional memory, rather than just a photoic MEP -- photographic memory.

:22:35.:22:39.

Music is very important to me. This started with us talking about

:22:40.:22:43.

Robert, a very young man, who knows nothing about himself now, there is

:22:44.:22:47.

a vulnerability to what people tell you about yourself or project on to

:22:48.:22:52.

you at this point, even calling him Robert? One of the things that

:22:53.:22:56.

memory can help you with is to disagree, no that is not right, that

:22:57.:23:01.

is not me. It can take away a lot of confidence if you don't have that

:23:02.:23:08.

background, so he must be feeling quite scared, I imagine.

:23:09.:23:17.

When you talk about Luis Suarez's reputation it can be taken either

:23:18.:23:21.

way. A brilliant striker and bizarre appetite for other players. It

:23:22.:23:24.

hasn't stopped his rise, his move to Barcelona was confirmed today with a

:23:25.:23:29.

price tag of ?75 million. The football world, it seems, is already

:23:30.:23:32.

moving on, even before the Cup Final. Sunday will bring together

:23:33.:23:38.

Brazil-killers Germany, and Brazil's great couldn't NENLT them rival,

:23:39.:23:42.

Argentina. It also marks some of the most incredible football a

:23:43.:23:49.

tournament has ever seen. Upset and destruction and uncomfortable truths

:23:50.:23:54.

about England. To some it is enough it is about football, to another

:23:55.:23:58.

like Dan Snow it is about power and politics and the settling of great

:23:59.:24:03.

nationaic scores. When it came to history this World

:24:04.:24:08.

Cup had it all, mighty Brazil knocked out with the greatest margin

:24:09.:24:16.

ever. Costa Rico defying the odds and qualifying. Spain crushed at the

:24:17.:24:26.

first hurdle. InDom mitable Germany. World class football. But for poor

:24:27.:24:52.

old England, history wasn't on their sidede.

:24:53.:24:55.

England's World Cup campaign has been a failure of historic

:24:56.:25:01.

proportions. I can't think of a worse performance since the Dutch

:25:02.:25:06.

Navy sailed into the river Medway in June 1667 and burned the entire

:25:07.:25:10.

English Royal Navy at anchor. It is worse than that, it is the most

:25:11.:25:14.

disastrous English foreign exhibition since that fool he ward

:25:15.:25:22.

II marched his army north and lost the Battle of Bannockburn, idiot! It

:25:23.:25:28.

is not like we didn't see it coming, Italians have been hungry for

:25:29.:25:33.

retribution since Boudica destroyed their 9th legion. As for Uraguy,

:25:34.:25:40.

more caution, haven't we forgotten the ship hitting the unchartered

:25:41.:25:43.

reef in 1809. I'm available for selection. Bill

:25:44.:26:06.

shankly, the great player and manager had it right, football isn't

:26:07.:26:09.

about life or death, it is far more important than that. The games we

:26:10.:26:12.

have seen being played in the World Cup are not just about which team

:26:13.:26:17.

lives or dies, they are about how they impact that greatest game of

:26:18.:26:23.

all, power politics. The World Cup is the perfect environment to

:26:24.:26:31.

revisit rivalries and settle old scores. That is not to say the

:26:32.:26:34.

violence doesn't sometimes bubble over, in 1969 a game between Honture

:26:35.:26:40.

are yous and El Salvador, rather than relieving the tension between

:26:41.:26:43.

the two countries, it ignited a full scale war. It was called the Soccer

:26:44.:26:49.

War, luckily it didn't last long. Speaking of rivalries, who can

:26:50.:26:53.

forget the dramatic day when the Dutch brought Spain's period of

:26:54.:26:57.

global domination to a close. I'm talking about the battle of the

:26:58.:27:02.

downs fought in 1569 off the coast of Kent. . They managed to repeat it

:27:03.:27:12.

last Friday 13th. What about Brazil, also highly fancied before the

:27:13.:27:15.

tournament yet collapsed under pressure. Will their much-touted

:27:16.:27:20.

economy, an engine room of the developing world prove just as

:27:21.:27:26.

fragile? One down, half time, you missed a couple of easy analogies

:27:27.:27:30.

out there, but you can pull it back in the second half. We probably

:27:31.:27:40.

should talk about Germany, in 1954 the west Germans managed to reach

:27:41.:27:45.

the World Cup final. They met their ancestoral enemy, the Hungarians. It

:27:46.:27:48.

was the first time the German National Anthem had been played

:27:49.:27:51.

since the Second World War, they managed to win the match, and amid

:27:52.:27:56.

national celebration the German post-war economic miracle was born,

:27:57.:28:02.

an episode that happened on the football pitch that has broken

:28:03.:28:05.

English hearts since then. Except for that glorious summer's day in

:28:06.:28:12.

1966. An opening in the defence and the hat trick! History fizzes

:28:13.:28:20.

through the Argentina-England rivalry, how do Co It not after --

:28:21.:28:25.

how could it not after the receipt coats invaded in the 1880s, more

:28:26.:28:30.

recently with the Falklands War. And Maradona's hand of God goal, who

:28:31.:28:36.

says it is his favourite goal, like stealing the England team's wallet.

:28:37.:28:42.

David Beckham saw red during a game between Argentina, briefly becoming

:28:43.:28:45.

a national pariah, times change. In fact, it looks like our two greatest

:28:46.:28:50.

adversaries have worked out they might as well cut out the middle man

:28:51.:28:55.

and play each other, take heart England fans, if a nation can be

:28:56.:29:00.

judged by its enemies, these two finalists suggest England must be

:29:01.:29:04.

great afterall. I'm really clutching at straws now. So as the world

:29:05.:29:11.

powers rise and fall what will the great future rivalries be, Iran

:29:12.:29:16.

versus USA, or Russia seems to be back as everyone's favourite

:29:17.:29:21.

adversary. But one day China might match its economic power with

:29:22.:29:27.

prowess on the football pitch. Now China v Japan, that would be a match

:29:28.:29:37.

with history. There is one lesson from history is that the English

:29:38.:29:41.

need a little help. Where was the best player in Britain? Welshman

:29:42.:29:49.

Gareth Bale during the World Cup, on the Penarth pier that's where. And

:29:50.:29:53.

Sir Alex Fergsuon could have been involved. If we want to make World

:29:54.:29:58.

Cup history for the right reasons in future, it will have to be Team GB

:29:59.:30:02.

that does it. That is all for this week, but on

:30:03.:30:06.

the day the British dance council stands accused of trying to ban

:30:07.:30:12.

same-sex pairs from competitive ballroom dancing, we leave you with

:30:13.:30:21.

the award winners dancing the Speak Up Mambo.

:30:22.:30:29.

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