Browse content similar to 21/08/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to Newsnight, live on stage at the Edinburgh Festival. | :00:12. | :00:20. | |
Four weeks today, Scotland votes to stay in the Union or to go it alone. | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
Tonight, with a stellar cast of performers, writers, and thinkers | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
from both sides of the border, including the actor Simon Callow, | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
Rory Bremner, Val McDiermed, Linda Colley and Scotland's most eminent | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
All that, and stand by for the newest | :00:35. | :00:53. | |
and shortest lived TV talent show - the snappily titled, Newsnight | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
It's not independence you are talking about. You are talking about | :00:57. | :01:11. | |
divorce. Divorce is expensive, especially with England, she is | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
going to bleed you dry. # To be ourselves again... # | :01:17. | :01:46. | |
All hail our resident house band, Federation of the Disco Pimp. | :01:47. | :01:54. | |
It's a wonderful coincidence that the | :01:55. | :02:14. | |
referendum on Scottish independence is happening just weeks after this | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
Where better to take the temperature of the Union than the Athens | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
As the independence debate rages in town halls and villages all | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
across Scotland, Edinburgh is jam packed with writers, performers, | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
thinkers and clowns - many talking about the vote and what | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
A festival city with a fringe on top. | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
But is it growing out of hand, as some of the critics maintain? | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
Well, this year, Alec, we have 39, which is quite a record number. | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
Now there are more than 3,000 in the organised chaos of Edinburgh | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
Cultural and political conversations about the referendum are happening | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
all over the capital, on stage and on the streets. | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
I get asked for my opinion all the time, which of course I don't give. | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
You don't have to be on the television to get asked | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
When you talk to the visitors, what are they asking you about? | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
Well, they can't believe that we're not independent in the first place. | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
This campaign is all hinged on one stupid two letter word "if." | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
Shouldn't you be campaigning for a No vote? | :03:22. | :03:39. | |
Even Westminster politicians can't contain themselves. | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
This is the most important decision we will ever take. | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
Nothing we've ever decided on before has been of this magnitude. | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
If this is seeming just a bit male, | :03:52. | :04:04. | |
one lunchtime referendum show was all about women and the Yes vote. | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
Initially, we met women on doorsteps who said. | :04:09. | :04:09. | |
We've now moved on from that so much, in terms of people feeling, | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
women feeling, that there's absolutely a point in voting. | :04:18. | :04:19. | |
This is a different type of question that we're being asked. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
But are women, who are potential Yes voters, being turned off by one man? | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
It's a danger recognised by Alex Salmond, | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
who has now said he will be willing to disappear from the picture | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Another well-known face is trying his hand at stand-up. | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
Unsurprisingly, he delivers a volley of infective about the referendum, | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
But off stage, he just can't help himself. | :04:47. | :04:55. | |
If Scotland's independent will you still go fishing in Scotland? | :04:56. | :04:57. | |
I fully expect that once there are watchtowers along the River Tweed, | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
as I fully expect there will be in the event of Scottish independence, | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
that one will merely flash one's passport and proceed on one's way. | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
There's a galaxy of voices at the Festival, | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
but when the last actor packs up on the Royal Mile the whole of | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
Scotland will still get to play its part in the drama of the century. | :05:19. | :05:33. | |
Joining us, the comedian, Rory Bremner, the actor, Simon Callow, | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
and the writer, Val McDermid - all appearing at the Festival this year. | :05:38. | :05:47. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE First of all, Rory. Great house band. Great house | :05:48. | :06:00. | |
band, Disco Pimps. You can't say the name or that happens. Paxman did had | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
that. Are you managing to get a whole lot of humour out of the | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
referendum at the Festival? Yes it is. The atmosphere is Fred | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
tremendous. The independence thing was going, I was in Edinburgh this | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
year. A woman said, this is something I've waited for all my | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
life. Hundreds of years we have been waiting for this. She was talking | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
about the tram system. The pandas, have got in. She is pregnant. I had | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
it down as an undecided. Last year she was, no, thanks. This year she | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
is yes. This is something the SNP is doing. He will need to impregnate | :06:42. | :06:52. | |
every voter. He promised to withdraw? | :06:53. | :07:01. | |
Lower the tone. He thought he was harming the debate? I can't follow | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
that! Do your own jokes, Kirsty. You have come back to Scotland from a | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
time away. Living in Edinburgh again. You have recently come out as | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
a Yes supporter. So have you been enjoying the Festival from a | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
different perspective now having made that decision? I feel relaxed | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
having made the decision. I spent a long time in, this week I think | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
this, this week I think this. I have made a decision and feel comfortable | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
there. Everywhere you go for it the Festival, or this country, it crops | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
up in every show, every comedy routine. What made up your mind, | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
comedy, politics, what was it? The fact the politics couldn't give us | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
any straight answers. Every time you spoke to a politician you got a | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
different answer. I thought about the way that the real world works. | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
When you come to the end of a relationship, when you want | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
different things, when your aspirations point in different | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
directions, you don't stay together because you are worried who will get | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
what when you split the CD collection. You make the decision | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
and make the arrangements afterwards. I look at what the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
sporment has done since we had the Scottish Parliament. The decisions | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
they made about education, health and social care were in tune with | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
how I felt about the world, much more so than what happens at | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
Westminster. Not only you your son is enjoining the Fringe and talking | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
about the referendum Yes. He lives in England most of the time. He has | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
been having a great time at all the comedy. Especially those with | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
swearing. Simon Callow you are a veteran of the Edinburgh Festival, | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
how do you feel this year? What do you feel about the atmosphere around | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
the referendum stuff. It's in stand-up and Dedicoat indicated | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
plays as well? ? It is. It's all encompassing it goes beyond and | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
above that. A lot of people here don't know anything about it at all | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
or think much about it at all. They are here to do a show or see lots of | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
shows. The show that I'm doing has absolutely nothing to do with modern | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
Britain or Scotland, apparently. It's 2,000 years old. The There is | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
something informing the air at the moment. I feel melancholy to adapt | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
the image that I was given, I feel like a child one of whose parents | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
wants to divorce and the other doesn't. There is a kind of | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
tremendous longing for it somehow to stay together on my part. Is that | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
why you are a signature to the letter from lots of thespians and | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
writers saying - please don't go? Absolutely. In my first job as a an | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
Octoberor was in this city, in the Assembly Hall, where I'm playing | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
now, 40 years ago. I worked here for many years in all sorts of mediums. | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
Scotland, particularly perhaps Edinburgh, feel absolutely part of | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
me. I feel part of it. I feel that if we were to break up, I would be | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
immensely diminished by it. It's totally polarising isn't it, unlike | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
the don't knows. A general election all over the country we have | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
different choices. Do you think celebrities should be involved in | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
this? Do you think comedians have a good role in this? | :10:32. | :10:43. | |
thing. Better together, she sells bras, so it is a interest -- it is | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
in her interest. I think there is a space, and comedy provides it. | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
Andrew Maxwell, brilliant comedian, he did a wonderful show... Oh, we | :10:53. | :11:07. | |
are under attack. And if you are wondering, and watching this in | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
Gaza. People ask about getting into | :11:11. | :11:26. | |
something less controversial like wind farms. When I started doing | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
jokes last year, I was doing a documentary. I was doing something | :11:31. | :11:39. | |
about this 360 degrees view and she was saying, one day, all of this | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
will be mine, and the next thing, it sounds like you go on the SNP | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
website and you get that. I voted for Alex Salmond, people say, don't | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
insult me. You don't get in -- get any of that. It's important | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
politicians should be part of laughter. The worry is that part of | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
the Yes campaign does lack the humour. I think it is important we | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
put the humour back in. Politicians should be held to account by comedy | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
and political means. I did not fight in two world wars... Well, I didn't | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
fight in two world wars. But my father did, and if Alex Salmond or | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
Alistair Darling have only got one ball, and the other is in the Usher | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
Hall, we should be allowed to sing about it. It's an important part of | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
democracy and we should not allow this to be a humour free zone. I | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
know this is heartbreaking for you, Rory, the referendum is about the | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
politicians. It's not Alex Salmond's referendum, or Alistair | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
Darling's, it is our referendum. We are the ones who make the decision. | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
Whatever happens, we have to rethink the future. Whatever happens on | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
September the 18th, there will be a realignment in Scottish politics | :12:59. | :13:00. | |
because people have been energised and people who have been in gauged | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
are not -- who have been engaged art doing so in a way they never have | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
been before. Was it that England should have become more engaged in | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
the conversation? Should they have been more engaged? I think so. Most | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
English people think it is unthinkable. There is a general | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
feeling it won't happen. If it does happen, we are a different nation | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
than them. We, the English, are a different nation, and the British | :13:33. | :13:34. | |
will be different. We are both diminished, in my view, but that's | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
another story. I'm sorry it has come to this. I wanted to see the | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
Scottish parliament given more powers. I was born and raised in | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
Edinburgh and I am a patriotic Scot and I have a house in Scotland. And | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
you have a boat. Absolutely. -- afloat. You have to choose between | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
head and heart, and the arguments are not finally cut. IU leaning in | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
one direction or another? My life has been about having the best of | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
both worlds. My Channel four series is filmed in London and a lot of | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
work I do, but I feel at home in Scotland, so where does it put me? | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
On the final question of how comedy and drama and all of this informs | :14:19. | :14:28. | |
political debate, is the drama to agitprop rather than giving you a | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
choice question one of the comedians did half of the show as yes and half | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
as no, and drama doesn't do that. Some drama has made its mind up | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
before you walk into the theatre but there is a lot of stuff that hasn't | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
because people haven't made their minds up and a lot of people still | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
don't want to think about this. One of the reasons there has been a | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
renaissance in Scottish literature over the last 20 or 25 years has | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
been because we are talking about ourselves, to ourselves. How do we | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
see ourselves question mark this is a discussion the country has had a | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
lot longer than the last few month -- how do see ourselves? | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
Thank you very much for that. For now, everyone, Val, Simon and Rory. | :15:09. | :15:21. | |
What is Scotland in the 21st century? | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
One of the big drivers towards independence has been | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
a growing cultural confidence, and a desire to express that through | :15:26. | :15:27. | |
But the roots of that sense of difference from Scotland's | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
bigger neighbour go back a long, long, way, as Allan Little reports. | :15:34. | :15:58. | |
What is Scottish national identity, and how did it break out of it | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
kilted straitjacket to be shaped by the times we live in now? The old | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
stereotype was born here, at Abbotsford, the country home of Sir | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
Walter Scott. He summoned this Scotland from his imagination, | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
romantic, exotic Scotland for English consumption, no longer | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
savage, wild and lawless. Scott was very clear when he wrote his first | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
novel, Waverley, that what he was doing was introducing Scottish | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
readers to their own history and English readers to Scottish history. | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
There is something fake about it though, isn't there? There is | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
something fictitious, not fake, but fictitious. Even being here, under | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
this wonderful roof that looks like a wooden chapel, it isn't, it is | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
papier-mache. The whole place is a theatrical set. But there is | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
something good about that. The idea that our identity is not something | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
fixed, but something changeable. We know that national identities are | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
constructs. The problem is, who is brave enough now to create new | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
constructs? Victorian Britain loved this manufactured Scotland and | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
bought it wholesale. This Scotland sat comfortably in the prospering | :17:19. | :17:33. | |
British union. # Donald, where's your trousers? But so many people | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
wondered why there was this representation of Scottish nurse on | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
its TV screens. It did not know anyone who did this kind of thing -- | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
Scottish nurse. When you look at the way that Scottish national identity | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
is expressed, especially by the popular performing arts, what did it | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
look like question mark kilts, haggis, the White Heather club. -- | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
what did it look like? As a young person growing up in Scotland it did | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
not relate to me. I did not look out and see anybody that reflected me at | :18:06. | :18:15. | |
all. That sense of what Scotland was was carried around the world by the | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
British Empire, the canny Scot and the dour Scot, landing on every | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
shore. They dressed in tartan and toasted Robert Burns every January | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
and sang sweet, sentimental memories about longing, loss and regret. For | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
a Scotland that did not really exist. A Scotland that was a | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
romantic, imagined constructs. That Scotland was safe, tame and knew its | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
place in the greater scheme of things. It had a rebellious past | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
that could be saluted and celebrated as long as that rebelliousness sake | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
-- stayed safely in the past. And that Scotland survived into our own | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
time. Think of Private Fraser in dad 's Army. What is a canny Scot | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
anyway? And can an Englishman ever be canny? One Saturday night, at the | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
age of 15 or something, onto the television came a version of, and I | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
didn't go to the theatre, the John McGraw play. Prepare the people to | :19:14. | :19:22. | |
make way for the sheep. It drew a direct line between the Highland | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
clearances of the 19th century and the sudden, catastrophic decline of | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
heavy industry. This was a powerful new voice in Scottish culture. And | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
it changed my life, really. I had never seen my own culture and my own | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
country reflected back to me in the wake that it did. There was a | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
re-claiming of who we were Ulster the cheesy it was an angry plate -- | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
of who we were. The Cheviot was an angry play. 70% of the population | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
owned 84% of the wealth. Scottish national identity began to wrap | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
itself in the cause of social justice. In the idea of resistance | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
to unaccountable wealth and power, imposing its will from outside. This | :20:09. | :20:20. | |
Scotland was also irreverent, self mocking and hilariously funny. Billy | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
Connelly, who had been a Glasgow shipyard welder, spoke for a | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
Scotland that now began to eclipse the old stereotype. That is the | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
white heather image,, I hope so. What is it you object to? The | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
English view that we have of the Scottish? The kilt on the sporran. | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
It is completely false, the wee cottage in the Highlands, the purple | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
Heather, it's not on. The guys who sing it, they live in the West End | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
of Glasgow. They don't know what they are singing. A wee cottage in | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
the Highland will cost to about 40 grand. It is not really on any more. | :21:00. | :21:11. | |
This was the Scotland that emerged to replace the White Heather club | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
and the Green Hills of Tyree. This Scotland was urban and it spoke in a | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
voice and with the wit and wisdom of the cities, of Glasgow in | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
particular. It was dismayed by what was happening and felt dispossessed, | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
abandoned by Britain as the industries that once serviced the | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
empires collapsed. This Scotland was angrier, less tame, less docile, | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
less reconciled to its place in the greater British scheme of things. | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
This Scotland felt much, much less British. Country, Scotland. It is a | :21:45. | :21:55. | |
peat bog, it is a dark forest. It is a cauldron at the base of a coal | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
mine. If you are lucky, it is a bonny medal. Liz Lochhead is the | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
national poet of Scotland, and one of the country's most celebrated | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
artists. In the 1980s she began to write in Scots as well as English. | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
Scottish kids had always been punished for using Scots idioms and | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
locutions in school. Standard English was bumped into you. But by | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
the 1980s, publishers wanted literature to reflect the demotic | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
speech of ordinary folk. They realised there was a market for | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
things that talk about ourselves in our own terms, and with the first | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
failed referendum, there really was a sense of depression, which then | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
expressed itself in a sense of let's get on with it and a revival of | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Scottish identity. In the visual arts as well, you | :22:52. | :23:02. | |
sensed a gradual decoupling. Ross Sinclair is one group of young | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
artists who emerged from the Glasgow School of Art in the 1980s. In this | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
installation, installation, he, like Walter Scott, addresses the | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
manufactured nature of national identity. From the fake grass to the | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
fake rocks and fake waterfalls. But he says, for his generation of | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
artists, Scotland's access to the wider world no longer lies through | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
London alone. London still has its straw and it is still fantastic. I | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
show down there now and then, and it's great, but there are all kinds | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
of other relationships with Europe, Berlin, Scandinavia, the US, China, | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
Africa, wherever. I'm just thinking of projects that are going at the | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
moment. These are the kind of relationships that are not based on | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
some historical premise that has this sort of built-in power | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
relationship. These are kind of new, fresh relationships. Horizontal, | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
organic things. A feeling that anything can happen. Walter Scott | :24:02. | :24:14. | |
conjured a Scottish identity that could fit in a wider British | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
context. Scotland's artists had been pushing at the boundaries for 40 | :24:20. | :24:20. | |
years. Rory Bremner is still with us - he's | :24:21. | :24:30. | |
leaning towards a 'no' vote. We're also joined by the writer Damian | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
Barr, who is firmly in the no camp, the actor and writer David Hayman | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
and the historian Sir Tom Devine - Last but not least, Linda Colley - | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
who doesn't have a horse in the race but is perhaps the | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
greatest historian of the Union. play, which you appear in, which | :24:45. | :25:05. | |
talks about Scottish independence. How much is your decision about | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
identity, heart over head, as about anything else? It's very simple, | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
it's not necessarily about identity. I want to live in a better country. | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
A country that's a small, progressive, European, peace loving | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
country with social justice and democracy and, at its heart. Whether | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
I would be Scottish or English Orwell shall it wouldn't make a | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
difference to me. I think we have to improve the quality of life for all | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
of us. I think our values are getting warped around the world. I | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
think we have a wonderful opportunity, we are a separate | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
nation, to be able to create a new paradigm for how we all live | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
together. Damian Barr can you put the same passion into the argument | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
for Union? Nobody wants a small, toxic back word looking country | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
which isn't progressing in the world. I want the same things. I | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
disagree about how we achieve them. I think the best way is to stay in | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
the Union. I'm a citizen of Scotland, I'm not resident in | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Scotland. My vote has been taken away. The I'm one of the nearly | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
800,000 people who were born here not allowed to have a say in the | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
future. That makes me incredibly angry. Do you think the decision | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
would be influenced heavily by those outside the country It's great the | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
country is talking about it, it affects the whole country. It's | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
great tonight I get in the cab over here it's the first thing that comes | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
up. It's exciting. I don't think we need to break the Union up to do new | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
things in Scotland. The Government has many powers it doesn't use. The | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
Scottish Government could raise incomes tax by 3p and spend it on | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
the arts and NHS, they haven't done it. Why do they want more powers? | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
You nailed your colours to the mass, saying you were going to vote Yes, | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
what was that journey? Is what were the points on that journey? | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
Reflection. Thinking about where we are, in terms of my own profession, | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
that is history. It is seeing where Scotland is likely to go. Seeing | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
what I think is the quite massive decline in the Union connection. | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
Also, seeing the potential. Also, particularly, I think, we're now a | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
mature nation. We are now a mature nation, in terms of identity, as has | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
already been said this evening. We're also got, I think, a much more | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
resilient economic system. It's not necessarily the best in the world. | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
It's certainly resilient in terms of what it used to be as late as the | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
1970s, 19'80s. The other important thing is, if you have an entity like | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
that, a collective sentiment, that as a nation, you are still | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
independent, as we are, because the Scottish Parliament, despite the | :27:54. | :27:55. | |
number of very good things it has done, is actually still dependant on | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
a block grant from the other country. The final thing I would say | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
is, the difference... I mean, both countries, England and Scotland, | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
have got similar, almost identical social problems of inequality and | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
the rest. But there are developing different political cultures and | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
voting patterns between England and Scotland which, in my view, cannot | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
really be dealt with exception an amicable release between the two | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
countries. Linda Colley, are the historian of the Union, do you see | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
that conjectory differently Well, I do. I mean, you can... Nationalism | :28:38. | :28:47. | |
tends to create an other against which it can define itself. The so, | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
it's tempting to say - oh, England is different. English politics are | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
different. Identity is different? Identity is different. But, you | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
know, English politics aren't always different you look at voting | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
patterns in the north-east of England. There is hardly any | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
Conservatives there. And, I think most countries, like most human | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
beings, contain multiple identities. I think that's very healthy. I think | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
one of the challenges of periods of political excitement is there is a | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
temptation to overstreamline identity. The I think we need to | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
keep it multivarious. Far too binary - I think Scotland retains that | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
number of identities from the local to the Scottish to the | :29:41. | :29:42. | |
international. What is the sensibility that is different? | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Actually, I would welcome the north of England joining us. | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
APPLAUSE Because, this is an issue, you know, | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
quite seriously, ladies and gentlemen, between the southern of | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
England, particularly south of the Severn Trent line, the Metro Poland | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
some parts of the south-east, the area you know well, Kirsty, from | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
your travels. That is the essential difficult recipesal. Let me talk to | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
Rory. You know the area well. This is your territory? I think there is | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
a problem at Westminster. There is a problem with England. I would be in | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
favour of seeing a more Federal United Kingdom. There is, that is a | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
problem. I don't necessarily, as I have been thinking about this, think | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
Scotland splitting up from the rest of the United Kingdom is the answer | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
to that question. Yesterday, for example, the headline in the | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
newspaper was a poll amongst English people, the English were polled | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
asked about it. If Scotland vote for independence we wouldn't them to | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
keep the pound. If they don't vote for independence we want their | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
public spending cut. You are setting a nation against itself. Alex | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
Salmond might say - this is the sovereign will of the Scottish | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
people. English people will say, sod you then. Damian Barr, do you see | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
this discussion, in a way, as being corrosive of the relationship, no | :31:04. | :31:05. | |
matter what happens? Absolute slid. It's hard to find positive things | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
about it at this stage. So many of the English people I know living in | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
Brighton people are like - don't go. Don't leave us. Clutching at you as | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
you walk out the door. The more radical thing to, do the braver | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
thing to do, is to stay and actually be radical within the Union. Let's | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
not forget Scotland can be a force for good for the other constituent | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
countries in the Union help affect change. It's not all about us. David | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
Hayman About 10 years ago, John Prescott was Deputy Leader of the | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
Labour Party. He offered the north-east of England atomorrow | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
mouse power, devolved power, it was unanimously rejected. I spent the | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
last two summers doing a TV series in Newcastle. They have changed | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
their minds. If that offer was on the table today they would accept it | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
and say yes. That backs up Tom's argument, let us devolve everything | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
away from London. It's like a great suction. Just sucking wealth and | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
talent and people. The That is an argument for devolution rather than | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
for independence. Tom, you are a historian, Scottish identity were | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
during the enlightenment with Adam Smith. David human. That was under | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
the Union. That is the thing... I don't want to have to make this | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
decision. This is the thing. I have been wrestling with it all along. | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
Linda? Yeah. One of the many mistakes David Cameron has made was | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
not to include devo max as an option. | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
APPLAUSE Because one of the repercussions has | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
been to polarise. The reason why I'm part Welsh, part Irish, part | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
English, I'm not a Scot, I don't have a vote this September, but I'd | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
actually find it difficult to know which way to go because I don't want | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
the status quo. I don't want Scottish succession. What I'd like | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
is devo max in this country as an integral part of a constitutional | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
reordering and reimagining of the UK. That is what you wanted at first | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
Tom Devine, it wasn't there It's not simply Cameron. Come Ron, I agree | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
with you, made a major error not allowing this. There were reasons | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
why he made that error. In a sense also, Alex Salmond and the SNP may | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
also have made an error because they didn't go for a gradualist approach | :33:33. | :33:41. | |
to their potential goal. He may well regret that because I know, in the | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
internal councils of the Scottish National Party there was discussion | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
about first having a vote over Defoe max, which would have delivered a | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
huge majority. Bedding it down in five years' time coming down and | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
asking for the next one. A lot of people, if there is a no vote -- | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
devo, will say that was a bridge too far. A gamble too quickly. Better | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
for a gradualist approach to take place. Back to Linda's point. If on | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
that fateful morning in September we wake up and there is a No vote. I | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
hope there is a maximum Yes vote as well. That will create the kind of | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
scenario where you can then move into Federalist or devo max | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
conversations. On that point, David Hayman, do you think the danger is, | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
whatever way it goes, say it goes No, that the Yes campaigners have | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
invested so much emotionally in it it will be a huge downer for you and | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
it will be a real shuddering problem for people that wanted that, as in a | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
way it was cultural in 1949? I don't it will be a shuddering problem. | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
What has been exciting about the last two years, the levels of | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
debate, the levels of debate have been extraordinary. People are | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
engaging the politics in a profound way for the first time in their | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
lives, young people, old people. It has been energising and exciting to | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
hear all this. Wonderful progressive ideas have gone around. There is a | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
force that has been unleashed. I don't think that force will go away. | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
Even if it is a No vote and we are disappointed. I think we will come | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
back to it. Whatever happens the Union has already changed. The Union | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
has changed historically. The Union always has changed. This would be | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
its most radical change. With have our own law. We have our own | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
education system. We have our own church and language and weather, as | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
we have all experienced this summer. I feel like - I can't really see | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
what is to be gay gained I can see lots of what is to be lost. I feel | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
we should be trying to finded common ground - There is a lot missing on | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
your list that is sovereignty. The capacity to decide what is right - | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
We have our own Parliament. Yes that Parliament is dependent for over 80% | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
of its income from south of the border. You are sitting there | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
listening to this. I wonder what you think, in a kind of way, whether | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
Scotland. Is this a conjectory, the same way that devolution to this has | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
been a conjectory, actually if there is a No vote would it be like | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
(inaudible) referendum. Is it a conversation that will keep going. | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
If there is a No vote the governance of the United Kingdom stays the | :36:36. | :36:45. | |
same? I think some of this being a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity puts | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
it to extensively. I think this is going to be a rolling debate. You | :36:50. | :36:57. | |
know, there may be, if we get No this time, there may be pressure for | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
another referendum 10 years on, 15 years on. We don't know. What I am | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
concerned about, what does worry me, is that nationalism historically is | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
a very volatile emotion. It's a very contagious emotion. One has to be | :37:17. | :37:25. | |
careful that relationships in this large island, at the moment called | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
Great Britain, we main as amicable as possible. I rather worry that | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
that had may not remain the case. Do you think that, David? I have been | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
amicable. If you remember, you don't know before the Commonwealth Games | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
Team England were counselled how to deal with boos and jeers when they | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
come to Scotland for". At Celtic Park 40,000 people gave them the | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
most loving, warmest welcome. I was so proud of my fellow Scots. I think | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
that is the level of love and respect we have for each other. I | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
think that will always be there. Coming to the end of this part of | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
the debate. I want to run round in an unscientific matter. How do you | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
think it will go, Rory? Well, the polls would suggest - depends on how | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
you look at the polls. They are suggesting about sort of 55-45 or | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
something. The nationalists say the polls are narrowing. The Unionists | :38:27. | :38:37. | |
say the polls are widening. Nigel Farage says, why ask the Poles, they | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
don't live here! Thank you Rory Bremner for that. | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
Newsnight was keen to flex its cultural muscle here | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
So back in May we launched a contest to find the most brilliant | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
artistic rendition of the Scottish independence debate. | :38:56. | :38:57. | |
We received dozens of entries from musicians, stand-ups and performers. | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
It fell to Steve Smith to separate the wheat from the chaff and, | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
here in Edinburgh, with our peachy panel of judges, to pick a winner. | :39:03. | :39:29. | |
spotting comedians and musicians willing to appear under the auspices | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
of Newsnight. Nobody said it was going to be diesel. -- easel. Have | :39:35. | :39:43. | |
they got something to say about the referendum? Something the rest of us | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
might enjoy listening to? And by the way, are there any venues going | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
begging to help you out with the 3000 shows. The Queen Dome of the | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
famous pleasance. Let's do the show right here. Only the creme de la | :40:00. | :40:08. | |
creme have made it to the home of variety, and now they get just one | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
chance to impress the judges. The man who puts to rest into | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
referendum, Arthur Smith, followed by the talented and popular | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
stand-up, Janie Godley, and more intellectual Alistair Brom Hannah | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
McGill. Your judges, ladies and gentlemen. -- more intellectual | :40:27. | :40:41. | |
ballast. On the way, the show stoppers, more Gilbert and Sullivan | :40:42. | :40:54. | |
meet the referendum. # we can't we leave that all behind with | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
Bannockburn and foreign I thought it was absolutely lovely. | :40:57. | :41:04. | |
If I ever want to hear three English people beg from me, I will have | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
these three. For me, there were too many words. Thereau a huge number of | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
words flying past. -- there are a huge number of words. With military | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
precision the Edinburgh Tattoo, the stagehands set up for the next term. | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
OK, Scotland, focus. This is your big moment. It's not independent you | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
are talking about, you are talking about divorce. And divorce is | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
expensive, especially with England, because she's going to bleed you | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
dry. Because she has Wales to support, and Wales ain't never can | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
get a job. And what's the cheapest way to get through any divorce? Have | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
the second marriage lined up. I say, OK, independent Scotland, who in the | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
neighbourhood will you get married to question the island, she's broke. | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
Iceland, she's bankrupt, France, she's a slut. You're going to be | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
looking at the next UN conference at the singles bar getting hit on by | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
North Korea. Is it natural commentary territory? You made it | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
seem so. -- comedy territory. In this country, yes, but the rest of | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
the world has no idea where it is. Who is being sick to death about | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
being asked about voting in the Scottish independence debate? | :42:23. | :42:24. | |
Together at last, the Scottish referendum. How will you vote? And | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
sock puppets. They are a bit like Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
This is what I thought, too angry little creatures sniping at each | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
other. Strangely familiar if you've watched the TV debate. And Hillary | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
Fox brought her ukelele stylings to an affectionate parody of a classic | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
song from the rock canon. # what about the oil? Do we get to keep the | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
pound? Will you get your own defence Force and get it off the ground? # | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
now is the time for making your mind up. # go one out and vote and make | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
your mind up. She is absolutely right, we should be making our mind | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
up, but like most Scottish people I will wait until the day and see how | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
the weather is. You know that if you do well here, you might go on to the | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
judges houses and you might go back to balance with Arthur. That is the | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
best offer I have had today -- bal. I think they have been very good, | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
and they've all had a go, as my mother would say. I am Scottish, so | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
we will wait to see the whole picture and then we will make a | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
decision. Yes, it's the Newsnight Edinburgh referendum review, and | :43:44. | :43:45. | |
this might be the closest we get today to a boy band. The Walk | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
Mischief. # An independent Scotland is a | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
better Scotland # We've got Edinburgh castle and | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
Stirling Castle # And Glasgow Castle and Elgin | :43:57. | :44:10. | |
Interesting what lads can do. This is a salutary distillation of the | :44:11. | :44:32. | |
important issues, the things they will take away in a big fan if we | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
vote no. How important is it for you guys to win this talent show today? | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
We all quit our jobs today to be here. So if we don't win, it would | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
be quite catastrophic for us and our girlfriends. # the thorn is | :44:48. | :44:58. | |
withdrawn. Is it? It is. The former BBC Moscow correspondent, Angus | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
Roxburgh. They say in every battled reporter there is a song and dance | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
man bursting to get out. # to be ourselves again. # to be ourselves | :45:08. | :45:19. | |
again. # Be ourselves again. It's a lovely warm, kindly sentiment that | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
we could do it without spittle rancour, but it's been proven that | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
is not the case, but it's nice to hold out for. To be ourselves again, | :45:26. | :45:34. | |
so, have you not been yourself? We don't feel ourselves at the moment. | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
I've not been myself all day. If you don't vote in the UK, it's not that | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
you don't care, you're just exhausted. Because you are voting | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
all the time. You have X Factor, Big Brother, Britain's got talent. There | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
is something called a by-election, which I think is a late night show | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
on Channel five. I have followed all of these issues and American | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
politics, because they are more exciting, because we have got guns. | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
You stuck around all day for us, is it because it was raining or it | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
meant the world to you? This is the big moment. Everybody knows that | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
comedy on Newsnight is the best varies. , acerbic and he will | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
probably come fourth or fifth. That is the first steer we have had of | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
the judges thinking. # home is where the heart is. # That is where we | :46:25. | :46:33. | |
belong. # Nothing can divide is. Were the referendum to be decided on | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
vocal performance, you would be in with a shot. I thought it was a | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
collection of cliches. Home is where the heart is. Perhaps you are | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
judging too harshly. I've changed my mind. They were brilliant. I will | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
put them first. That's what we want. What a journey our contestants have | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
been on. Who can blame them for a few butterflies? Only one act can | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
win a life changing live performance on Newsnight. It all rests on our | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
unimpeachable judges. They are without fear or favour. Or a fee, | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
very nearly. Coming third is a brilliant lady with the ukelele, | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
give it up for Hillary Fox. For making us laugh heartily and | :47:18. | :47:27. | |
insulting us gently and for dressing better than any of us, second prize | :47:28. | :47:29. | |
is David Mills. The winner of the inaugural and | :47:30. | :47:43. | |
final Newsnight referendum review is... | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
Excuse me, everyone. Hello, boys. How do you feel? Absolutely | :47:47. | :48:05. | |
phenomenal. It started out as for friends, and now we are free friends | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
and someone else in the process. -- three friends. | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
Thank you to all my guests and congratulations to the winners | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
of Newsnight's Referendum Revue, here to play us out live. | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
The Orc Mischief's Song may sound like a paean to independence, but | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
# An independent Scotland is a better Scotland | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
# An independent Scotland is a better Scotland | :48:32. | :48:39. | |
# We've got Edinburgh castle and Stirling Castle | :48:40. | :48:48. | |
# And Glasgow Castle and Elgin Castle | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
# And Forth Road Bridges and Forth Rail Bridges | :48:56. | :49:29. | |
# An independent Scotland is a better Scotland | :49:30. | :49:51. | |
# An independent Scotland is a better Scotland | :49:52. | :50:02. | |
Good evening. We are set to continue with a rather cool weather story | :50:03. | :50:27. | |
through the next few days. Blame it all on the northerly or | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
north-westerly breeze. That will be lighter across the British Isles on | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
Friday than Thursday. There should be more in the way of sunshine and | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
less in the way of showers. Those factors combined could bring us a | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
warmer feeling day. That breeze will feel more showers in throughout the | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
day to parts of Northern Ireland and the north of Scotland. Southern and | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
central areas should see sunshine. Greater risk of showers across | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
eastern England through Friday afternoon. Still plenty of sunshine | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
around as well. Many areas will avoid the showers altogether. | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
Temperatures in the south-east of England in one or two spots up to | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
around 20 degrees Celsius. More typically, we are looking at highs | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
in the mid to high teens. It is a couple of degrees down for this | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
point in August. With the breeze becoming lighter still overnight | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
Friday, into Saturday, we could be off to a pretty chilly start to the | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
weekend. Again, with a few scattered showers around, we are not talking | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
about a bad day all in all. A lot of sunshine. Temperatures in the best | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
of any sunshine up to 17-18, maybe 19 degrees. Here is how Saturday | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
looks. Showers possible across northern England, perhaps for East | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
Anglia later in the day. Overall, a lot of fair weather. A slightly | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
lighter breeze through the day. Temperatures in the mid to high | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
teens. Look out for a chilly night Saturday night into Sunday. | :51:47. | :51:48. | |
Make the most of your bank holiday, wherever you are. | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
Use the BBC Weather app to stay one step ahead of the weather. | :51:51. | :51:55. |