Browse content similar to 18/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A seven-hour-long police raid on a Paris suburb leaves two jihadis | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
dead - a female suicide blows herself up as officers move in. | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
Was this the moment a second terrorist attack | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
France's security forces believe the business district was | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
Residents in the neighbourhood are told to stay indoors. | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
We'll be live in Paris and later we'll be asking if religion is | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
Also tonight, this senior Conservative activist is | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
banned from the party for life amid bullying and harassment claims. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
A Tory MP tells us the party failed to act. | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
It was unfortunately swept under the carpet. We did not want to end up | :00:50. | :00:59. | |
having the general election last, I would imagine. | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
Is this the right man to lead Labour's Defence Review? | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
The party appears divided from the very top. | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
We invite Ken Livingstone to make his case. | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
And in an exclusive interview, the chief executive of the Premier | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
League tells us football is ready for its gay superstars to come out. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
I actually think the environment would be suitable for them to come | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
out, if that is the right phrase. I think it would be welcomed and I | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
think there would be a tolerance to it and the time would be right. | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
Dramatic events once again in Paris this morning, have confirmed fears | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
that intended attacks on the city may not yet be over. | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
Before dawn, security forces launched a series of raids | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
and arrests in the suburb of Saint Denis in search of the mastermind | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
The police operation began in Saint Denis. Over the next few hours, | :01:49. | :02:14. | |
explosions and sounds of gunfire were reported. By 8am reports were | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
coming through that two suspected jihadists were killed, including a | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
woman who detonated an explosives vest. At 11:26am police stated the | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
assaults were over with seven arrested. | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
Police now believe they may have foiled an imminent attack on | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
La Defence, the business district of Paris. | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
Tonight, police have admitted that one of the key attackers, Saleh | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
Abdelslam, is still on the run, and the manhunt for him continues. | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
Police confirmed tonight that the ringleader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
But could he be one of those killed at the scene? | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
Mark Urban is there for us in Central Paris tonight. | :02:50. | :02:58. | |
Emily, a day on which an Islamic State female suicide bomber | :02:59. | :03:06. | |
detonated device on the streets of a European city would, one imagines, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
have created huge headlines in itself a few weeks ago. Today, given | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
the sort of tragic events that have been going on here, it is just a | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
detail in this unfolding story. Two days ago the French security | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
services received intelligence that this flat in Saint Denis was a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
possible safe house for this man, Abdelhamid Abaaoud. That is when | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
they put the Abdelhamid Abaaoud. That is when | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
surveillance, clearly guessing he would be a trophy. But he was not | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
arrested. And although one newspaper has reported an American belief he | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
was killed, there is no corroborative evidence. Instead, | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
was killed, there is no police tried to get their prize. | :03:53. | :03:53. | |
They put their operation police tried to get their prize. | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
And they would have been planning it around this time last night. | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
Intelligence led police to Saint Denis before dawn in the hope of | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
catching Abdelhamid Abaaoud, pinpointed as the architect of | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
Friday's terror attacks. What they found was reinforced steel door and | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
armed people behind it. In the time it took to force their way in, those | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
inside resisted and the police fired 5000 rounds. With all that going on, | :04:31. | :04:39. | |
local residents in this Paris suburb had to be evacuated. Finally, as the | :04:40. | :04:50. | |
siege came to its climax, at least one suicide belt was set off, | :04:51. | :04:59. | |
killing two people inside. There were follow-on arrests, too. Tense | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
moments as the police rounded up were follow-on arrests, too. Tense | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
those faces spectre of giving logistics support to the | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
terrorists. Part of a widening dragnet. At the end of it, officers | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
gathered evidence and tried to make safe unexploded weapons inside. The | :05:17. | :05:25. | |
police, it seems, were chasing the so-called Belgian mastermind of the | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
recent Paris attacks. Even if that is right, that leaves the question | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
about the surviving attackers themselves on answered. What we will | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
see in the coming hours and days are more raids as different elements of | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
the plot are rolled out. In Saint Denis, those hoping this will all | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
end on the same day France finished its national mourning were | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
disappointed. And Muslim locals voiced their frustration with the | :05:56. | :05:56. | |
situation. voiced their frustration with the | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
TRANSLATION: There is a war in Syria. | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
There is a war in Iraq. There is a war in Palestine and Burma. And | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
everywhere Muslims are the prime victims. It is normal. Muslims do | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
not like that. At the end of it all today, far from | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
closure, the suggestion from the Paris prosecutor that the Saint | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Denis cell or a whole new set of operatives. | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
The investigation open on Friday evening has significantly | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
progressed. Last night's assault is proof of this. A new terror cell was | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
neutralised and everything is leading us to believe, considering | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
their weapons stockpile, they're structured organisation and their | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
their weapons stockpile, they're have been able to carry out other | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
attacks. have been able to carry out other | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
For the French state, the battle will intensify now with an unknown | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
number of jihadists still at large at the same time as it tries to | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
account for everyone involved in Friday's atrocities. | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
They will undoubtedly be all tracked down. Those which will be caught in | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
the European space will naturally be judged and I would assume severely | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
condemned. Those who would be found in theatres of war will suffer the | :07:17. | :07:24. | |
laws of war. That will mean their physical elimination. There will be | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
no rest onto that has happened. There are no terrorist court cases | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
in the French approach. Tonight, a Christmas market reopened | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
in Paris after three days of national mourning. People came not | :07:38. | :07:47. | |
in the numbers traders hoped. This man has taken a stall for the past | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
five years and thinks they are still afraid. | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
We are a sad, very sad. And it is very quiet for the moment. It is | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
reopening today after five days. We do not know. We hope. | :08:02. | :08:09. | |
But we are not sure. Many people here have been hoping that today | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
would be a chance to turn the page and move back towards something like | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
business as usual. But this morning's events have treat -- | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
cheated them of that hope and shown that this whole ugly drama is not | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
yet over. France then is still in shock. Its government must be | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
hoping, and soon, for some more tangible signs of success in the war | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
it has that shared. Mark, | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
what more did we learn today about how close the French authorities are | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
to wrapping up the investigation? At a stage like this in an | :08:44. | :08:54. | |
investigation like this, it is a wilderness of mirrors. They tell the | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
wider world certain things, they do not tell them others. Some elements | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
are added by force. A man, ninth man, we don't know of some of those | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
things come from an inquiry, sometimes they are given out | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
deliberately to create a sense of confusion among conspirators. We | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
learnt a few important things today. The prosecutor said that two of the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
suicide bombers from Friday night are still unidentified. When they | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
are identified, that could take the investigation in all sorts of new | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
directions. We know also that some intelligence that has been talked | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
about from, for example, the Iraqi government, talked of up to 25 | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
Islamic State group people coming into France to do this. The level of | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
raids we have seen in the last few days would suggest to me that | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
certainly they are looking for more than the narrow group who might have | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
been directly involved in Friday's events. It is still a big ongoing | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
manhunt and it is still developing new directions. | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
Mark Burgan. We will return to the bigger question behind the roots of | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
these attacks with Professor Tariq Ramadan and Tom Holland later. | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
During the 2015 election, Road Trip was the Tories' not | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
so secret weapon, a dynamic organisation which bussed | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
young activists round the country to campaign in marginal seats - and | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
But when a young activist took his own life in September, | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
the organisation - and its founder Mark Clarke - found | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
Allegations of bullying, harassment and even blackmail surfaced. | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
Now, a Newsnight investigation has raised troubling questions | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
about whether the party failed to act on numerous warnings about | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
Yesterday, in response to Newsnight's request for comment, | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
This is a story of bullying, blackmail and sexual harassment. Of | :10:51. | :11:08. | |
a senior Conservative Party organiser who stands accused of | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
intimidating and exploiting young activists as he was lauded by party | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
bosses. And it is a story of how time and time again complaints were | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
ignored by Conservative Central office. It was unfortunately swept | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
under the carpet because we did not want to have the general election | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
result lost. Road Trip was a campaigning organisation established | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
to bus young Conservatives around the country. The idea was to get | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
young people out to marginal seats to help solve the Conservative | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
dream. It was the brainchild of this man. Mark Clarke, a former | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
Conservative parliamentary candidate. After the Conservative | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
election win in 2015, he was stated by the chairman of the party and the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
Prime Minister for his running of the organisation. But behind the | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
scenes of celebration at Conservative HQ, there was a | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
problem. Over a five-year period complaint after complaint about Mark | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
Clarke had been fed into Central office. Nothing appears to have been | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
done about them. The student vote is really | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
important. Then in September, this young Conservative activists -- | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
activist tragically took his own life. | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
Elliott was a bright and imaginative ladder. People loved him. He raised | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
the humour levels, he would lift the gloom in the room and he had friends | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
in all quarters. We were visited by the police on the late evening of | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
the 15th of September to tell us they had found the body of a young | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
man. They describe the contents he had in his bag. His Winston | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
Churchill fob watch, his Union Jack wallet. It broke us. | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
Elliot Johnson had made a formal complaint about Mark Clarke to CC HQ | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
a month before he decided to take his own life. He told the party that | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
in the pub behind me Mark Clarke had threatened to ruin his career by | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
revealing that he had a police caution, a minor misdemeanour. After | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
Clarke found out about the complaints, he met Elliott in a | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
different pub with an associate, Andre Walker. Eliot secretly | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
recorded the meeting. Walker warned him he was on the wrong side of an | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
internal battle. Elliott spoke of Clarke's bullying | :13:45. | :14:37. | |
in a letter that his parents found after he had died. It was not the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
first complaint that have been lodged with CC HQ. Road Trip | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
campaigns were often finished by boozy dinners and drinks. | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
Paid for by CC HQ. I went on one of the first Road Trips. It may have | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
been the first. It was by the time we got to Harlow that you could see | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
the darker elements. I started to pick up on anything, that these were | :15:01. | :15:09. | |
considered normal. Mark pointed out he knew I was outspoken. That he | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
knew I was outspoken. That doing. Certain campaign thinks. And he said | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
I should be on board and I could have all of these favours. At that | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
point he tried making a move on me and I backed away. He stroked my arm | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
and tried to put his hand up my skirt. I backed off. I went back | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
into the room, or as I was trying to get back in, he sort of said, if you | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
are not one of us, we can destroy you, basically. We will destroy you. | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
If you speak out against us try to take us, we will ruin you. We will | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
make sure you do not have any kind of career. | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
And that if I didn't stop crossing him, that would be used to damage | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
both of us. The woman who we are calling Natasha | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
said she complained to CCHQ in the summer of 2014. I complained I | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
didn't think the way that Mark and the other Road Trip activists | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
behaved was fitting, considering they were representing the party. I | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
said that I didn't think the way that he had approached me and tried | :16:13. | :16:25. | |
to blackmail, that it was a good idea. I got an e-mail back saying we | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
have received your complaint. And I heard nothing more. Newsnight has | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
spoken to five other activists who say they made complaints to CCHQ | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
before Elliot's death, so why was no action taken? A Conservative Party | :16:40. | :16:48. | |
spokesman told Newsnight, the Party Chairman acted immediately to set up | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
an internal disciplinary inquiry as soon as he received the allegations | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
in August 2015. One of his own MPs, Ben Howlett, who chaired | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
Conservative Future from 2010 to 2013 rejects his party's explanation | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
of events. We have complained about him for a long period of time. It | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
was not just him, but people attributed to him as well. I | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
complained when I was national chairman, I complained to the | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
chairman's office when Grant Shapps took over as the Party Chairman and | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
I have to say the national chairman has been well aware of all of this | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
for a long period of time. He backed me up on this, which I was pleased | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
about. Effectively, somewhere along the lines, all of those complaints | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
about him and others in the Conservative Party had somewhat been | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
distanced and been ignored and it was not investigated at that time, | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
unfortunately. Water off a duck's back, ignore it, move on. It was a | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
succession of different issues. I have to admit it had taken its toll | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
on myself and yes, I might be an MP now, but the bullying that I ended | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
up having to put up with through a successive number of years took its | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
toll on me and I have had my own mental health issues as a result of | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
that. What form did these complaints take? What happened with them? Well, | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
there were a huge range of complaints, I have to say. Whether | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
or not it was from bullying, bullying complaints, I mean that was | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
my own personal circumstance. Or whether or not it was women who were | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
complaining in relation to different advances he was making, and that's | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
for them to make complaints about, and no doubt they have spoken to | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
your programme about it as well. There's a huge number. Mark Clarke | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
was able to influence and even blackmail young activists by abusing | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
a position he had in the party. He described himself as a director in | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
CCHQ, something that CCHQ deny. In one message seen by Newsnight, | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
Clarke used the supposed position in CCHQ to threaten a Conservative | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
Future branch that was not bringing in enough student volunteers to Road | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Trip. He said, "We could ruin them, ban all Tory speakers, blacklist the | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
leadership for failing to campaign properly in a way that would follow | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
them their entire career and much more personal stuff." In another | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
e-mail he told the volunteer, "You add applied for an internship and | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
were awaiting the outcome of their interview. I have to tell you you | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
will not be offered an internship. Furthermore, I have to put you on | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
notice should you be offered a job with any Conservative MP or another | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
part of the Conservative Party, I will advise them to immediately | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
terminate your employment." Since CCHQ have been made aware of | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Newsnight's allegations, the party says it has banned Mark Clarke for | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
life. It also says it's withdrawn Road Trip's official accreditation | :20:03. | :20:04. | |
as an official campaign organisation for the party. But how did Mark | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
Clarke get away with it for so long? Within Conservative Future after I | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
left, I would say there was institutionalised bullying within | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
Conservative Future and it was unfortunately swept under the carpet | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
in the big scheme of things because we didn't want to end up having the | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
General Election result lost, I can imagine, and you don't want to talk | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
about those things whilst the General Election is going on. I find | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
it staggering if Ben Howlett MP has come out and damned Shapps for not | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
having acted against complaints that have been made on numerous occasions | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
by young adults. If these turn out to be true, then Lord Feldman and | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
Shapps should resign immediately. Clarke told Newsnight he strongly | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
refuted all allegations of bullying, harassment, assault or attempted | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
blackmail. He said, "I believe that these false allegations and this | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
media firestorm are related to the events surrounding Elliot's sad | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
death. As such, I will be co-operating with the Coroner and | :21:14. | :21:15. | |
providing him with the fullest information. This is the proper | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
process. After the inquest, I will look to take legal action for | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
defamation in respect of these allegations." The Conservative Party | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
is still to publish its own internal inquiry into Clarke and there are | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
ongoing coroner and police inquiries into Elliot Johnson's suicide. | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
What's clear, is that this is a scandal that isn't going anywhere | :21:37. | :21:37. | |
any time soon. Now as we were going on air tonight, | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
we learned that in response to our report, the Tory Party has | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
suspended the National Executive of Conservative Future and taken its | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
youth wing under direct control. A spokesman told us, | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
"We have been checking and rechecking, but have not been able | :21:52. | :21:52. | |
to find any records of complaints that were made but not dealt with - | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
but we are determined to get to The former Mayor of London, Ken | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
Livingstone, has taken to Twitter to apologise unreservedly for saying | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
a shadow defence minister suffering from depression should get | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
"psychiatric help and pop off and see a GP", after he had criticized | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
his appointment to Kevan Jones, | :22:17. | :22:18. | |
who has spoken publicly about his mental health issues in the past, | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
said Mr Livingstone had caused offence to thousands of mental | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
health sufferers with his words. The row between the two Labour | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
figures started after Mr Jones questioned why the former mayor, | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
who's opposed to Trident, was given an influential role alongside Maria | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
Eagle, who is heading up the review. Does it feel like this is the end | :22:34. | :22:47. | |
now? I don't think so. You have Ken Livingstone to your right, you can | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
ask him in a second. The pair were on Channel 4 News and Ken | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
Livingstone said to Kevan Jones, "You started it. Where does this | :22:57. | :23:04. | |
leave the broader question of the Defence Review? Kevan Jones told | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
Channel 4 News he wasn't clear what Ken Livingstone would be playing and | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
how the two will work together. This isn't just a debate about | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
ill-advised comments made about mental health. This is going to the | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
core of Labour's position on matters of War and Peace and there's two | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
divisions it is throwing up. The first is on Trident. You have Jeremy | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
Corbyn and Ken Livingstone, again you will talk about it in a second, | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
who have one position on Trident. It is opposed by the people who were in | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
Labour's defence team, including Kevan Jones, and the party. At the | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
moment, we have the co-chairs of Labour's Defence Review apparently | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
with irreconcilable views. Secondly, you have another division on Syria. | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
Last night on this programme, the Labour MP Emma Reynolds said she | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
would like a free vote. Ken Livingstone said she wouldn't be | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
getting a free vote. She pro-war, as he called her, if she wanted to vote | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
in that way, she would be able to but she would have to defy the Party | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
Leadership. There is an inconsistency for a lot of people in | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
the Labour Party, for Corbyn's allies, they are allowed to be | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
independent, to have their own views, and indeed possibly have | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
those views imposed on the rest of the party on something like Trident. | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
For people like Emma Reynolds, she's told she has to get in line. The | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
problem is this: Corbyn said it has to be a gentle new kind of politics | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
and it has to be consensual. Events in the last 24 hours undermine that. | :24:37. | :24:38. | |
It doesn't sound very consensual at the moment. Kevan Jones has said you | :24:39. | :24:49. | |
should apologise to all sufferers of mental health who you offended. | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
Would you like to do that? I'm sorry. Let's be quite clear... Does | :24:53. | :25:01. | |
it mean you are genuinely sorry? I'm very sorry about that if they were | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
genuinely offended. He started this row. Is that an apology? It is an | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
apology. It is a very odd type of phrase. Are you apologising to Kevan | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
Jones? If anyone is upset, I'm sorry about that. I didn't start this. I | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
get up this morning, I find that a Labour MP is denouncing me in this | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
role saying I don't have any... It is not denouncing, he is questioning | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
whether you are the right person for this job? Why didn't he pick up the | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
phone and ask me? I could have told him. For five years, when I was | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
leader of the GLC, we oversaw civil defence in London. We had to plan | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
for what would happen in a nuclear war, millions of Londoners would | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
have died, I lived with that. After 9/11, we spent four years planning | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
for the terrorist attack we knew was coming. Almost all the time I have | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
held a public office, there's been that threat of violence because of | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
military involvement. Did you pick up the phone to Maria Eagle to tell | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
her you were her co-chair, she learnt from Twitter? It is not my | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
job to do that. The Labour NEC decides this panel. We have always | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
had... Why was it your job to go on Twitter and make the announcement | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
when she didn't know? I didn't go on Twitter. It must have been made for | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
me by the party. I'm a member of the NEC, I wasn't - I had journalists | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
phoning, saying we hear you have been appointed this... You said it | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
at a book launch? I did not do any Twitter about this. It was CND, | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
people came along... Was that an error not to just make contact with | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
the person who will now be the co-chair? I left the NEC when that | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
decision was made to appoint me. I found out about it later on. I | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
assumed Maria Eagle had been told. The fact is, Maria Eagle and I go | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
back to 1981. She invited me to come and talk to her student Labour Club. | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
She said today, it feels like the Shadow Defence Secretary has got an | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
older man into mark her homework. That is excruciating? She is being | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
very silly. The reality is, if you are going to have a policy review, | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
you need someone who represents that commitment to Trident, someone who | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
has always been dubious about that. We have now got to look at the | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
facts. We have a very tight budget situation. The British Army now is | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
smaller than at any time since before World War One. A lot of | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
people, including myself... You are on opposing sides, she supports | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
renewal of Trident, you don't. Could you be persuaded on that? Could you | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
see yourself supporting Trident? I want to see facts that suggest to me | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
that this is the best way of spending our military expenditure. | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
You could be convinced on that? You might come out of it saying Trident | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
is a good idea? If you are going into a policy review, you leave your | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
previous preconceptions behind, your views behind, we are there to look | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
at the facts. We need to look at is this the best use of ?20 billion? Or | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
would it be better building up our Armed Forces? A lot of people will | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
say you are Jeremy Corbyn's enforcer, you are like having an | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
informant on the inside? No, my time as leader of the GLC, we always were | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
living with terrorist attacks. I want to know what's the best way of | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
protecting the British people. I understand that. We are talking | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
about the system you take to get to it. Have you spoken to Maria Eagle | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
today? No. I spent - I have answered the phone 70 times. You haven't | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
spoken to your co-chair on this? We haven't organised any meetings or | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
anything. All I have had all day is a wave of media interviews and | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
endless phone calls, about 70 so far. We will have a chat about it. | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
The thing is, we fight a very tight budget. We have to work out what is | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
the best way of protecting Britain. Is it nuclear weapons? You haven't | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
spoken to Maria Eagle yet, Emma Reynolds told us there should be a | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
free vote on Syria. Do you agree with her? Absolutely not. If you are | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
talking about military action, the Labour Party has to have a view for | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
or against it. Saying a free vote, saying the Labour Party doesn't have | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
positions. I support her right, if she wants to vote against the whip, | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
because I often did. The trouble is, as you can surely appreciate, this | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
points to a wider problem, when you are rowing with your own Defence | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
Minister, when you are criticising other ministers, when you haven't | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
told the Shadow Defence Secretary she was aware of your role. It's | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
chaos in the Labour Party. At this time, when people are desperate for | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
leadership, they are desperate for cohesion, they know what they get | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
from David Cameron. When they come to Labour they get a wheel of | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
fortune, any time they spin it, something different comes up. | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
I did not start this row. I am talking about the perception. | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
Presumably the public want leadership? We were told when | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
Blair took the decision to invade Iraq, this makes us a target for | :30:02. | :30:02. | |
terrorism. What we have to do is Iraq, this makes us a target for | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
decide what the biggest threat to Britain is. Is it a nuclear strike | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
or another Britain is. Is it a nuclear strike | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
attacks. I want a military system that protects the British people | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
from being murdered by terrorists. Thank you for | :30:19. | :30:20. | |
The head of the Football Association, Richard Scudamore, | :30:21. | :30:32. | |
He said he thought the time was right for them to go public, | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
He was speaking as a new study emerged showing the | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
impact made by the Premier League to the UK economy - a business that | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
He sat down to discuss the economics of football with Evan Davis. | :30:48. | :30:58. | |
I think it is a number of things. First of all it is the football. The | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
way the football is played seems to be very attractive to a lot of | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
people around the world. This season any team can beat any other team. | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
Most of the world likes the compelling nature of our football. | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
You are saying football is better in the Premier League than in the | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
German league? I did not say that. It is more compelling. It is a | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
particular brand of football. The pace, the intensity and the | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
integrity of it, the way the games go to the last minute, nothing is | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
ever decided until the end. That is why around the world, in my view, | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
people are tuning in to watch our football more than anybody else. You | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
say around the world people are tuning in. The international | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
revenues are considerable. Is there anything you can do to serve Ian is | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
national audiences better? Those plans are well shelved. There is no | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
plan to take it abroad, to follow say the NFL? There is no plan. It | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
would be disingenuous to say there is still a will. We think it is a | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
good idea, the clubs think it is a good idea. But you cannot do it | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
until you overcome the integrity of competition point. For Crystal | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
Palace to be drawn at home to Manchester United, to suddenly | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
decide that game will be played in Hong Kong, even though it is a home | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
game for Crystal Palace, it will not look like it, I am sure, by the time | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
you end up in Hong Kong. Do you see the Premier League as a business? Do | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
you see it as having a wider responsibility to English and Welsh | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
society, our British society? You cannot see it as a business first. | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
It is a sporting competition. Unless the sporting covetousness compelling | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
we have nothing. That competition has this power to engage people to | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
do more things. To enhance people's lives, to engage people, to enthuse | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
people, to get people to stick to football and do things through | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
football, because of football, they would not otherwise do. There is a | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
business element. That has to be paid for, putting on the show and | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
doing the good stuff we do in the communities. That is the commercial | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
side. It is not just the third limb of what we are. There are a number | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
of areas in which the Premier League is criticised for being rather | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
ungenerous in the dispersion of its revenues, which are very | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
considerable. I would be interested in your views. Is it right that | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
English Premier League clubs should just charge the revenue maximising | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
price for a ticket, or should they feel there is a responsibility to | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
help fans get to see the live game? They do not charge the revenue | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
maximising price for a ticket. That would be higher on a supply and | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
demand. On average they are paying ?32 50 for tickets. We do not get | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
involved. The clubs know that the number one strategic priority is to | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
keep those grounds full. You want people to be able to afford the | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
occasional trip to watch their team. It may be that a lot of people would | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
love to go but are being priced out. They can afford to go and see the | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
occasional game, quite frankly. People can afford it. The unit price | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
of those games is not always at the highest price. Grassroots football | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
is the other thing. The Premier League was given some dispensation | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
from certain competition requirements that might ordinarily | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
have applied to the sale of television rights. The quid pro quo | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
was 5% of the revenues are going to grassroots football. The revenues | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
have increased enormously. Are you still going to be giving 5% of your | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
overall revenues? What you might define as grassroots is the | :35:12. | :35:22. | |
complication. Lee Division one is part of your 5%. Anything we give | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
way to football outsider Premier League is money given away. We are | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
meeting our commitment. We give away currently about 15% of our top line | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
revenue. 15%. How much do you give away for football other than teams | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
that might have been in the Premier League? It would be on an annual | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
basis somewhere in the region of about ?150 million. But the | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
revenues, what are we talking about? 2 billion per year. You say it is | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
more than 5%. Yes. Weigh more. How much goes to real grassroots? About | :36:07. | :36:14. | |
55 to 60 million. If you just work on that being the amount we give | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
away to your definition of grassroots, I'd argue, I would argue | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
that within grassroots you would have to include in my view to lower | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
league clubs are doing in their communities, for example, what | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
football league clubs are doing. Football in the community as a | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
grassroots activity. It is getting people taking part. I would argue | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
that youth development, those thousands and thousands of young | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
children engaged in these youth development programmes, is really a | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
grassroots community based venture. Let's take a step back. There is no | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
other business that you sit opposite that give away 15% of their | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
turnover. You are clearly accepting it is not a pure business. It has | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
obligations to society. It absolutely does, yes. Responsibility | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
beyond the Premier League, responsibilities to the English | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
team. Greg Dyke would like 12 members of each squad to be | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
home-grown players. Good idea? No. Whilst he thinks it is a good idea | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
we do not think quotas work. Effectively we absolutely believe if | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
you want to be good enough you have to play against the world's best. We | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
do invest hugely in youth development. Then you have to put | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
these players into the real environment against the world's | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
best. It is a difference of view as to how you improve the fortunes of | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
the England team. Greg Dyke thinks quotas are a good idea. Myself, | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
along with pretty much all of 20 club managers, who know a little bit | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
about this, absolutely think that the best ways to make sure that when | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
they come through they are good enough to compete against the best | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
in world. You do not like quotas. You say any player can play in a | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
team. What about sexuality? Rather any gameplayers? I'm absolutely sure | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
there are, yes. Why don't they feel able to be public? I do not know. I | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
cannot speak for them and I don't know who they are. I think the | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
environment would be entirely suitable for them to come out if | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
that is the right phrase, and I think it would be welcomed and I | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
think there would be a tolerance. I think the time would be right to do | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
that. Do you think the Premier League has peaked in this | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
broadcasting round? It is not going to carry on growing. That is like | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
asking if its best days are behind it! Of course it has not peaked. I | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
can see this go on for some good time yet. | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
Peter Scooter more. -- Peter Scudamore. | :39:06. | :39:06. | |
What do we know about the Paris attackers? | :39:07. | :39:08. | |
Reports about a couple of the brothers suggest they were low life | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
criminals who drank, took drugs, and weren't remotely religious, | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
There's more to come out of course, and perhaps sketches of their | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
But inevitably, an attack of this kind - that the perpetrators | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
call jihad - raises questions about the nature of religion | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
in this war and those who carry out cold blooded murder in its name. | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
We're going to hear two perspectives on the link between Islamic State | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
Tariq Ramadan, one of the world's leading Islamic | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
First to Tarik Ramadan, you must recognise that Isis uses is lamb for | :39:40. | :39:59. | |
the pretext of the terror it perpetrates? That is a solid link. | :40:00. | :40:08. | |
-- Islam. Yes, once again I do not really agree with Muslims saying it | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
has nothing to do with Islam. I think yes. At the very moment | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
somebody is saying this is a slam and this is what we're doing in the | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
name of Koran and quoting verses, we have at least the moral | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
responsibility to respond. By denying, in fact, not only the very | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
essence and the mainstream understanding of Islam, but still we | :40:34. | :40:42. | |
have to come with arguments and to show that the way they are using the | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
verses, the prophetic traditions, it is completely wrong. It is not | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
relying on the right understanding. And we have to challenge the | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
religious understanding by saying, in the name of this lamb, and this | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
is what Muslims have been doing even before September 11 in the United | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
States, by saying, no, that is not acceptable. What we are expecting | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
also from the media is to hear these voices and go beyond this. Not to | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
ask the Muslims day in, day out, do justify, to apologise, to explain | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
what Islam is not. We need to come to the common narrative of what it | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
is for the huge, almost a consensus among the scholars and Muslims | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
around the world, and to come together and say, we are combating | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
violent extremists. What we can now do is our fellow British Muslims to | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
come to a better understanding and stop this confusion. | :41:47. | :41:56. | |
Just explain what you mean? It sounds like the media is asking the | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
wrong questions. If you believe there is a link between what Isis | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
preaches in the name of terror and a slam, what is the right response? -- | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
Islam. What I am admitting is that as soon as somebody is speaking and | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
saying they are speaking in the name of Islam, they have to respond, ten | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
years ago in Britain we had exactly the same story and we were asked the | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
same. Let me tell you something. The mainstream Muslim conscience and | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
consciousness and citizenship, and Muslims around the world, our | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
saying, and have been doing so for so long. The fact is after ten years | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
we have always the same questions. Are you British? What is your | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
commitment? Go back to the central question. How do you take religion | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
out of the terror that is being committed? If you do not like that | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
question being asked to Muslims around the world, how do you take | :42:57. | :43:04. | |
question being asked to Muslims by listening to the Muslims saying | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
this has nothing to do. And by not as King Muslims to find solutions. | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
And to come to the reasons of why this is done. In the Middle East | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
now, Tony Blair said there is no relationship between what is | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
happening in the country and foreign policy. Nothing ever could justify | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
killing innocent people in Paris. But we also have to say, what is the | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
foreign policy from France, from Britain, from the European countries | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
when it comes to killing people in Afghanistan? When a school is | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
bombarded it is as if the innocent people have less value than our | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
people. That is not going to help us to solve the problem. Human beings | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
have the same value. You have to listen to this. I will put this to | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
Tom Holland. We have not got very long. He is talking about the lack | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
of equation between recognising the different elements that go into this | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
terror. Do you accept that? I think it is a very Protestant presumption | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
that you can siphon religion off from the flocks and Eddie of general | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
human life. I think that probably for the bombers, religion is the | :44:24. | :44:31. | |
gin, the tonic of all of the other motives that have propelled them to | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
do what they do. I do think the religious aspect of it is very | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
significant. And I think that it is expressive of a crisis in Islam that | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
is of very profound portions. I think that the crisis is bread of an | :44:47. | :44:54. | |
increasing liberalism. An increasing look at the fundamental Scriptures | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
and tenets of Islam and reducing them to their most sanguinary. The | :44:58. | :45:05. | |
crisis for mainstream is lamb is that it obliges Muslims who belong | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
to the mainstream to impose a firewall between the beliefs of Isis | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
and mainstream Islam. As far as I can tell, that is proving, to | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
mainstream Muslims, to be a huge challenge. Do you think that | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
Professor Tarik Ramadan is right when he says that the questions are | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
always asked of mainstream Muslims and we do not ask enough of the | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
other questions? Tony Blair's foreign policy and our intervention. | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
Actually I think we do dwell on that a very great deal. And I think in | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
the way it would be very reassuring to say they are motivated by | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
hostility towards say British foreign policy. If that were the | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
case we could do something about it. But I do not think they are. They | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
have a more apocalyptic strain to their motivation. If they weren't | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
being motivated purely by a desire to respond to Western foreign | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
policy, why, for instance, have they been practising genocidal policies | :46:04. | :46:15. | |
against the Yazidi 's? -- Yazidis. Why do we assume religion is | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
tolerant? This is very much the thought for the day notion, that you | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
have a warm, mushy, essentially Anglican idea that everybody should | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
get along. If you look at the history of religion, it has existed | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
to defy as well as to join. It has inspired violence as well as peace. | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
Tarik Ramadan, can you come back on that? I think it is true that | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
religion can be an instrument for promoting peace. Now we have to come | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
together and understand quite clearly that from Europe we are all | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
condemning what is happening. But what we need now is to get it right. | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
Not to centralise religion and say it is religious. It is also | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
political. It has to do with what we are doing. | :47:06. | :47:15. | |
Thank you very much. Sorry, just breaking up at the end. That is all | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
we have time for. Good night. | :47:19. | :47:22. |