Browse content similar to 11/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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After two weeks of talks, and with one deadline already | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
missed, is the clock running out on plans for a comprehensive | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
We will be live in Paris for the very latest on talks | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
And the former Labour leader Ed Miliband discusses | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
We are doing so well in all the polls. A poll came out two days ago. | :00:22. | :00:41. | |
We are number one. And so it seems, despite this week's | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
hugely controversial call to ban Muslims from entering the US, we'll | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
ask if Donald Trump is unstoppable. Also tonight, the embassy, | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
the Ukrainian militia, Who told us that they had found | :00:52. | :01:00. | |
these paintings in the war zone in some house related to someone a | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
friend of the former president. And in Artsnight, a profile | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
of photographer Juergen Teller, whose shots of Kanye West | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
and Kim Kardashian made global They are Americans, and then a | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
good-looking French chateaux, it doesn't look quite right. That is | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
why they got married in some nice place in Tuscany. I rather was | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
attracted to the sandpit. "Nothing is agreed until everything | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
is agreed." The words of the chairman | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
of the climate change talks in Paris, the French Foreign | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
Minister Laurent Fabius, are still echoing around | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
the conference centre tonight way past the official deadline, | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
with a new deadline for a deal Tonight he promised the deal | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
could be "a big step forward But money is the major sticking | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
point, specifically the level of compensation for poor countries | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
to cope with the restrictions required to slow down climate | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
change, and the issue of which countries get what money, | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
especially with the ambition for a limit of a 1.5% rather | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
than 2% temperature increase. Today in Paris, Greenpeace turned | :02:01. | :02:33. | |
the Arc de Triomphe into a sermon, using one hopes what are some sort | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
of naturally biodegradable pen. Behind all of the science, much of | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
the argument now is a messy fight about money. The question is who | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
pays, the developed or the developing world? Carbon emissions | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
per person have been falling in the developed economies and 70s. | :02:58. | :02:58. | |
Meanwhile, industrialisation has driven them higher in many | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
developing economies. That in the late 90s at the time of the Kyoto | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
deal, Chinese emissions were well below European levels but rapid | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
industrial growth has since pushed them higher. At Copenhagen in 2009 | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
it was agreed that less developed countries would carry some of the | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
burden of producing emissions, but the deal was sweetened with a | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
promise that by 2020 $100 billion a year would be made available to | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
finance climate change mitigation and adaption. Ultimately there is | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
almost certainly going to be a need for much much higher figures. Those | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
won't come just from the budgets of developed countries, they will also | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
come from export credit agencies. They will come from multilateral | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
development banks, and indeed they will come from the private sector | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
itself that hopefully will be able to see their way towards profitable | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
investment opportunities. Halfway to 2020, and that 100 billion has not | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
yet been hit. Bilateral public climate aid from government stood at | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
$23 billion last year. Another 20 billion came from multilateral | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
organisations like the World Bank, a couple of billion from export | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
credits and almost 17 billion from the private sector. The path to 100 | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
billion is still being debated tonight in Paris. Some countries are | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
obviously rich and expected to step up. Others obviously poor and | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
expected to benefit, but what about those in between? China and India | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
have much larger economies than save the UK but both argue that most | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
historical carbon emissions have come from the developed West. | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
Advanced economies, they say, must bear a particular burden. And whilst | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
India's economy might be three times as large as Britain's income per | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
head is just 15% of UK levels. The hot topic in Paris tonight is what | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
is being called differentiation, which is basically a fancy way of | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
saying should India, China, Brazil and the rest be paying into that 100 | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
billion target? What they want to make sure is that that isn't coming | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
at the expense of the developed countries need to do. They don't | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
want to substitute what developed countries need to do, they want to | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
compensated. So they are working on the exact language to work on how | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
developed countries need to play their part, and provide a finance | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
needed, but we can expect to see from Clement Ric efforts now | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
recognised by some of those emerging economies. The night the talks are | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
dragging on, there is broad agreement on the cover those in the | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
world economy but very little agreement on who will pay for that. | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
For those most affected, there really is no plan B. | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
The BBC's science editor, David Shukman, is in Paris | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
David Shukman, intense horse trading up to the last minute, what is the | :05:42. | :05:51. | |
chance, do you think, of some kind of deal by nine o'clock tomorrow | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
morning? CHUCKLING I think no chance of that. The | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
French have invested a huge amount of political capital in trying to | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
crack this. They had hoped to do today but obviously failed, because | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
some of the issues that Duncan mentioned are really so difficult, | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
and runs so deep is a fault line through this whole process. The idea | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
of them coming up with a new draft tomorrow morning is obviously | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
welcomed here, but for people who have watched this process over the | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
years, they say it is just inconceivable that it can be sorted | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
within a fewer hours of that. Many people expect this might well run | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
over another day in the Sunday, because the difficulties are so | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
immense. I mean, we have heard about some of them, the question of money, | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
that is really fraught, but let me give you another one. Running right | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
through this process is the idea, the desire among many countries, for | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
the text that comes out at the end of this to be legally binding. They | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
see that as the only to give the process some teeth. But the word | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
legally binding, that phrase, is anathema to the Americans, because | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
anything legal might look like a treaty, which they would have to | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
take the Congress with a very poor chance indeed of getting it through. | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
Another really difficult question is reviewing each country's voluntary | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
carbon plans. Under the system operating now, more than 180 | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
countries have come up with their own voluntary proposals for how they | :07:20. | :07:21. | |
would deal with the emissions stop but Britain and others say there has | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
to be a review of that. Every five years. China doesn't like that, the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
French have got a deal with that and hope to do it tomorrow. | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
With me now in the studio is the former Labour leader | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
and the Climate Change Secretary during the Copenhagen talks, | :07:41. | :07:42. | |
the last big chance to find a global deal. | :07:43. | :07:44. | |
Ed Miliband. Obviously there was huge optimism going into this but | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
you have the memory of Copenhagen. If they don't get a deal tomorrow | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
morning, which is the cut-off, if they don't get a deal on Sunday than | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
it has been too ambitious. It feels like a global version of your kids | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
homework crisis, doesn't it? With this last-minute business. But I | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
would give some reassurance here, there have been 21 of these | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
meetings, they have always gone into injury time, and injury time in the | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
injury time. My personal view and I am obviously not there is that they | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
will get a deal. From the text I saw this morning, the draft text, it | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
will be an ambitious deal. I can't tell you that the certain that my | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
sense is that too many countries have come too far. China wants a | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
deal, the United States want a deal, yes, there is lots of difficult | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
issues, in particular developed and developing countries, and if you | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
like who bears the responsibility, finance, cutting emissions. Maybe I | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
am an optimistic person but I think there probably will be an agreement. | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
But the actual permutations should have been sorted out on this | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
question of the hundred billion, who pays income who gets out, long | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
before the horse trading has been going on surely quietly before they | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
reached Paris two weeks ago? I think it is not that the issues weren't | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
known about, it is that the negotiations were always going to go | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
right down to the wire, because that is the way these things are. I wish | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
it weren't so. But this is the way these things have always been done. | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
I don't want to sound like Pollyanna about this but it is much further on | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
than Copenhagen. At this stage, Copenhagen was collapsing around our | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
ears and ending up in a 3-page agreement. There are 27 pages or so | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
of text, there are a fuel as far as I can tell outstanding issues. | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
Critical issues. President Obama has rung the Chinese president tonight | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
and is sort of right in there. As I say, I am optimistic. But is this | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
simply about political will, really in the end, or is it about hard | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
cash? I think it is about both. The reason I think there will be a | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
agreement is the political will question is being answered in the | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
affirmative by the countries that matter. And there is something quite | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
interesting about this agreement, which you mentioned, which is this | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
1.5 degrees then. 2 degrees which you mentioned, which is this | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
has been seen as the benchmark but 2 degrees is a dangerous tipping | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
point. I think if they can come out with 1.5 degrees as the benchmark | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
for this. That will really mark a new beginning. But there is a whole | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
issue as well as to why China and India should be getting any | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
compensation. They are a growing industrialised country, why are they | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
going to get money back out? This is the very compensated issue of loss | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
and damage, how Duport countries get compensated for loss and damage done | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
by developed countries? My sense is that China and India are not really | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
asking for cash in this, maybe that is part of it, but in the end this | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
is about the Marshall islands will disappear potentially if we go above | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
1.5 degrees. This is about the most vulnerable countries. And about | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
having some magnanimity in this but what there isn't either is | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
sanctions. And that I think is a hugely problem because who would | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
administer them and who would pay for them? I think that there aren't | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
sanctions, I would prefer if there was a tougher regime but you are | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
trying to do something so difficult, and frankly you are pushing the | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
boundaries of political will. Let me say on this legally binding point, | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
though, my sense is that there is broad at least implicit agreement | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
that ministers will not be put in jail if they don't meet the targets, | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
right? But the fact that countries have to put forward pledges, the | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
first time that has ever happened, and the way they will be monitored, | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
adding that will be legally binding. Again, that is a significant step | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
forward from where we were six years ago. I don't have skin in the game, | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
in the sense that I have helped negotiate this agreement but I | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
recognise progress when I see it. If there isn't a deal on Sunday or | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
Monday... It will be very bad. Before we finish, a quick word on | :12:03. | :12:13. | |
Stop The War Coalition. The you think our Labour leader should be a | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
member? Honestly that is a matter for him. I am not going to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
commentate. Jeremy Corbyn has a long-standing association with this | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
organisation, he has a long-standing opposition to different types of | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
intervention. If I may say, I think our party's focus should be on | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
taking the fight to the Tories and working out the ideas that will win | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
as the next general election, not Jeremy Corbyn's political | :12:44. | :12:44. | |
engagements. Well, tonight, Jeremy Corbyn | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
was the guest of honour at a Stop the War coalition | :12:50. | :12:51. | |
fundraiser in London. The former chairman of Stop | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
the War for four years, until his election as leader | :12:54. | :12:55. | |
of the Labour Party in September, was due formally | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
to hand over tonight. He told the dinner guests that | :12:59. | :13:00. | |
"the Stop the War Coalition has been one of the most important democratic | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
campaigns of modern times". He had been urged not to attend | :13:04. | :13:05. | |
the dinner by former Labour frontbenchers Caroline Flint | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
and Emma Reynolds, and the Green Party MP | :13:09. | :13:09. | |
Caroline Lucas stepped down as a patron of Stop the War over | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
statements made in response An article was published | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
on its website, which said that France had "reaped the whirlwind" | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
of Western support for extremist Our reporter, Secunder Kermani, | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
has been at the south London restaurant where the event | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
is taking place tonight. What has been going on, set the | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
scene for us. So, Stop the War coalition | :13:34. | :13:44. | |
supporters have been enjoying a three-course Turkish meal | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
in the restaurant behind me. It's the annual Christmas | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
fundraiser, but this year it's caused controversy, | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
because Jeremy Corbyn He had been the chair of this | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
coalition. That's controversial | :14:08. | :14:17. | |
because Stop the War have been heavily criticised for a number | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
of recent articles, including saying Paris attacks were reaping | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
the whirlwind of western policy Now the group took the articles | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
down, they say that doesn't represent their official line, | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
but earlier this week it emerged that Green MP Caroline Lucas had | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
stepped down from a leadership role partly because of | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
what they had said. And there have been calls | :14:42. | :14:43. | |
from a number of Labour MPs for Corbyn to disassociate | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
himself from the group. One Shadow Cabinet member told me | :14:47. | :14:48. | |
he thinks Corbyn should not But his supporters say it's a big | :14:49. | :14:50. | |
smear campaign by the right wing | :14:51. | :15:06. | |
of the Labour Party. Right-wing Labour, helped | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
by the media, has made it divisive. The Stop The War committee was not | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
a controversial organisation at all until a war was begun | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
in England against Jeremy Corbyn. A war waged by the media, | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
waged by the BBC and waged by the right wing | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
of the Labour Party. So, when you have people | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
like Caroline Lucas, reconsidering their position | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
with Stop the War, doesn't it make It has nothing to do | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
with the committee. I think the Greens may well be | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
worried that Corbyn is winning a lot Nothing to do with the controversial | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
statements that are being affiliated There have been no controversial | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
statements made by Stop the War Now, some of the criticism of Corbyn | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
comes from other figures But it's also fair to say a lot | :15:51. | :16:03. | |
of this boils down to fears in the right wing of Labour that | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
groups like Stop the War, which have a strong socialist | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
worker party presence, for example, are entering | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
into and changing the direction Corbyn's supporters might say he has | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
a huge mandate for the political and that comes because of, | :16:18. | :16:30. | |
not in spite of, his links to groups It must have been pretty devastating | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
for a regional museum in north west Holland when, 11 years ago, | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
an art heist denuded its walls of 24 Dutch Golden Age paintings, | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
which disappeared into thin air. But it must have been just | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
as astonishing when two representatives of a right wing | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
Ukrainian militia turned up at the Dutch Embassy in Kiev, | :16:51. | :16:52. | |
demanding 50 million euros Gabriel Gatehouse has been delving | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
into a murky world where art theft and Eastern European | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
politics collide. They are getting ready for Christmas | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
in the little town of Hoorn. In the 17th century, this | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
was a place of wealthy merchants. These days, Hoorn gets | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
by on the memories of that golden age, the architecture, | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
the artefacts, the paintings. A decade ago, art thieves broke | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
into the local museum. They came at night, | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
locking themselves inside. They made off with 70 pieces | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
of antique silverware So, they took out all the paintings | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
out of their frames Since we have not heard | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
of the collection for over ten years, we believe it | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
is very well prepared. Probably the thieves did not know | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
what they were stealing. This is not the Rijksmuseum | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
and these are not Rembrandts. The theft at the time hardly made | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
waves outside of the local newspapers because they were by | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
lesser-known artists, contemporaries of the old Dutch | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
masters but not quite the real deal. But then, out of | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
the blue, came news. We were very happy because it was | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
the first sign of life about our paintings but then, | :18:18. | :18:26. | |
when we heard they were in the Ukraine, we immediately thought, | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
well, this is making things not Not a lot easier | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
is an understatement. Dutch officials were approached | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
by a commander from The paintings had been | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
found, they were told, while fighting | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
pro-Russian separatists. The museum approached | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
an art investigator, who travelled to Kiev | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
to meet the commander. He told us his soldiers had found | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
these paintings in a war zone and somehow related to somebody | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
befriended to the former president, The Ukrainians sent | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
through a photograph of one of the paintings with a copy | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
of that day's newspaper, So, Arthur Brand started | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
secret negotiations. Newsnight has seen some | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
of the correspondence. The paintings might be returned, | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
the commander suggested, They talked about a finder's | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
fee, 10% of the value. The trouble was the Ukrainians had | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
fastly overestimated the artworks. Well, I could prove to them these | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
paintings were not worth more I showed them auction results | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
of similar paintings Boris said, "Well, my soldiers | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
will not accept this." The other time he said, | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
"The people who have sent me When news reached the museum | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
that the pictures were being offered for sale elsewhere, they feared that | :20:09. | :20:20. | |
time was running out. We asked our BBC colleagues in Kiev | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
to track down Boris. He never asked for 5 million euros, | :20:24. | :20:33. | |
he has never even seen TRANSLATION: I do not have to wait | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
contact with the people who allegedly found this collection, | :20:39. | :20:49. | |
I never did. I only had one way | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
contact with them. When I tried to call them back, | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
the numbers do not exist. The museum says there's a web | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
of influential figures Apart from Boris, | :21:01. | :21:02. | |
the commander, they have named a former head of Ukrainian | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
intelligence and the leader If you take the murky world | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
of international art theft and mix it with the chaos of the conflict | :21:11. | :21:19. | |
in eastern Ukraine, what you end up with frankly is not | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
a huge amount of clarity. I have seen documents that show | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
that the Dutch authorities are taking these allegations | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
of high-level involvement by politicians and intelligence | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
agencies in Ukraine Sleepy Hoorn now finds | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
itself in the eye of Next year the Netherlands will hold | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
a referendum on whether Ukraine should be closer | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
integrated into the EU. Conspiracy theorists are muttering, | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
could this whole scandal be a Russian plot to | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
scupper their chances? Meanwhile, the local museum just | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
wants its paintings back. Hoorn and this region played | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
a major part in the rise of the Dutch Republic | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
in the 17th century. It was a harbour town and, | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
through trade, people We tell this story | :22:16. | :22:17. | |
and these 24 paintings, We miss them every day | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
because they tell such important Even in Trump terms, | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
it's been quite a week for the billionaire real estate | :22:32. | :22:42. | |
mogul who wants to be the Republican | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
presidential candidate. A man who loves a headline, | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
it seems any headline, he made plenty of them with his call | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
to ban Muslims entering America, and now according to Democratic | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, he is no longer | :22:56. | :22:56. | |
funny, but dangerous. And today our Ambassador | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
in Washington slapped him down too, denouncing Trump's assertion | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
that the UK was disguising a massive Muslim problem, and that there | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
were police no-go areas in London. But the latest CBS poll, | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
taken before his anti-Muslim tirade, among Republican voters | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
he is the man to beat, To discuss all of this, we have | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
from Washington Mark Krikorian, of the Conservative Center | :23:22. | :23:31. | |
for Immigration Studies, and from New York, | :23:32. | :23:33. | |
Catherine Rampell, columnist Good evening to you both. Mark, | :23:34. | :23:45. | |
first of all, why do you think Donald Trump gets such traction for | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
his ban on Muslims entering the United States? Well, in general, he | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
gets a lot of traction because of the broad and deep contempt that | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
much of the public holds all believe in. A lot of the attacks, whatever | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
they are attacking him about actually strengthen him because the | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
people attacking him have been utterly failed in their | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
responsibilities as a political and business elite so they have no | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
credibility, specifically on the Muslim issue. Obviously the | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
terrorist attack in California made that salient but our political | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
leaders have refused to address the issues raised by radical Islam. The | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
president will not even call radical Islam by its name and so that simply | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
opens up the kind of opportunity for somebody like Trump, who presents | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
himself as a straight talker and all of this, regardless of how clumsy | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
and corsee years when he talks about this stuff, he is the only one | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
addressing people's concerns and so he is the one who attracts a lot of | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
people's support. Does Mark have a point about elites? What he | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
represents is somebody who is not part of the elite when so much | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
American politics is seen as being a caucus in Washington? It is true and | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
it is not true. He is a billionaire. It is hard to get more elite than | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
that. He is very influential. Here's a reality TV star. If you are | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
talking about the incumbents in Washington, yes committee presents | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
himself very much as an outsider and he is an outsider in that respect. | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
Americans are upset and, to some extent, rightfully so about economic | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
stagnation and other economic anxieties. Here's not really | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
addressing those. I am interested what you are saying about him being | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
a billionaire. He is not beholden to anyone. No one is holding him back. | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
That is his argument. Americans believe that our current political | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
incumbents in the Republican and Democratic parties who are not | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
looking out for their interests, only in the interests of people and | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
corporations that give the money. I understand that Donald Trump is | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
quite appealing because he claims he is self-funded. He is not entirely | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
self-funded. For the most part here is independently wealthy and it is | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
not focus groups or particularly advised by outside experts. Is that | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
because Washington does not by and large address these are people who | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
are not in the Beltway, who are in far-flung states who do not | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
understand what these people are talking about right now? A lot of | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
people are talking that lack of jobs and problems with the economy. | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
Donald Trump taps into that. Coming, Mark. It is more than just an | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
economic issue. You're right that he has not actually... He has talked | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
about economic issues, that is the core thing. What he represents in a | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
crude way is, he is a nationalist. What he is saying I think he is | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
correct despite all of his other floors, much of our elite has become | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
post-American. They're not that interested in the interests and | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
problems and concerns and fears of regular folks and making sure that | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
Americans are the ones who basically win if there is some kind... | :27:39. | :27:49. | |
Comeback on that. I just want to say, he is certainly appealing to | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
Americans anxieties. Whether he is offering policy solutions, I am very | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
doubtful. A lot of his solutions seem to be scapegoating various | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
minorities. Is he actually what Hillary Clinton said, before he was | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
dismissed as being funny but now, Hillary Clinton says he is actually | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
dangerous. What you think about that? That is silly. I am no fan of | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
the guy that the idea he is dangerous is absurd that the these | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
dangers to anybody, he is dangerous to the political cartel both parties | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
have in running the country. In that sense, he is a threat to them. The | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
idea that he is a budding Mussolini or something is rather laughable. It | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
is the hyperbole that helps people and his own supporters are more | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
likely to support him when he is attacked by people. That is indeed | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
what the Republican inner circle has really got to worry about. If they | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
attacked him too much, then perhaps he comes out fighting. There are | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
moves, are there not, to try to shut him down. There are moves afoot to | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
try to curb Donald Trump. What do you know about that? He is very | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
divisive, even in the Republican party. He has a solid core of | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
support amongst an unhappy populous. An anxious group, economically and | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
otherwise anxious group. He is certainly playing to that crowd. | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
There are a lot of Republicans, more moderate and otherwise, who are very | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
turned off by his rhetoric, by his tone, by the fact he has been | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
scapegoating again, not just Muslims but Mexicans in China and immigrants | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
at large. There are a lot of people who were disturbed by the fact he | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
could actually... If you were Republican, he could turn all | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
publicans away from the Republican Party and he became a nominee, they | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
would turn to Hillary. This week, Tate Modern's Chris | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
Dercon profiles Juergen Teller, whose images of the rich and famous | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
over the past three decades have And we should say there is some | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
strong language in this programme. In the 1990s, Juergen Teller's shots | :30:12. | :30:25. | |
for the music and fashion industries | :30:26. | :30:29. |