11/12/2015 Newsnight


11/12/2015

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 11/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

After two weeks of talks, and with one deadline already

:00:00.:00:09.

missed, is the clock running out on plans for a comprehensive

:00:10.:00:11.

We will be live in Paris for the very latest on talks

:00:12.:00:17.

And the former Labour leader Ed Miliband discusses

:00:18.:00:21.

We are doing so well in all the polls. A poll came out two days ago.

:00:22.:00:41.

We are number one. And so it seems, despite this week's

:00:42.:00:45.

hugely controversial call to ban Muslims from entering the US, we'll

:00:46.:00:48.

ask if Donald Trump is unstoppable. Also tonight, the embassy,

:00:49.:00:51.

the Ukrainian militia, Who told us that they had found

:00:52.:01:00.

these paintings in the war zone in some house related to someone a

:01:01.:01:02.

friend of the former president. And in Artsnight, a profile

:01:03.:01:04.

of photographer Juergen Teller, whose shots of Kanye West

:01:05.:01:06.

and Kim Kardashian made global They are Americans, and then a

:01:07.:01:16.

good-looking French chateaux, it doesn't look quite right. That is

:01:17.:01:19.

why they got married in some nice place in Tuscany. I rather was

:01:20.:01:23.

attracted to the sandpit. "Nothing is agreed until everything

:01:24.:01:31.

is agreed." The words of the chairman

:01:32.:01:34.

of the climate change talks in Paris, the French Foreign

:01:35.:01:36.

Minister Laurent Fabius, are still echoing around

:01:37.:01:38.

the conference centre tonight way past the official deadline,

:01:39.:01:40.

with a new deadline for a deal Tonight he promised the deal

:01:41.:01:43.

could be "a big step forward But money is the major sticking

:01:44.:01:48.

point, specifically the level of compensation for poor countries

:01:49.:01:53.

to cope with the restrictions required to slow down climate

:01:54.:01:55.

change, and the issue of which countries get what money,

:01:56.:01:57.

especially with the ambition for a limit of a 1.5% rather

:01:58.:02:00.

than 2% temperature increase. Today in Paris, Greenpeace turned

:02:01.:02:33.

the Arc de Triomphe into a sermon, using one hopes what are some sort

:02:34.:02:41.

of naturally biodegradable pen. Behind all of the science, much of

:02:42.:02:44.

the argument now is a messy fight about money. The question is who

:02:45.:02:50.

pays, the developed or the developing world? Carbon emissions

:02:51.:02:57.

per person have been falling in the developed economies and 70s.

:02:58.:02:58.

Meanwhile, industrialisation has driven them higher in many

:02:59.:03:03.

developing economies. That in the late 90s at the time of the Kyoto

:03:04.:03:08.

deal, Chinese emissions were well below European levels but rapid

:03:09.:03:11.

industrial growth has since pushed them higher. At Copenhagen in 2009

:03:12.:03:13.

it was agreed that less developed countries would carry some of the

:03:14.:03:16.

burden of producing emissions, but the deal was sweetened with a

:03:17.:03:22.

promise that by 2020 $100 billion a year would be made available to

:03:23.:03:25.

finance climate change mitigation and adaption. Ultimately there is

:03:26.:03:29.

almost certainly going to be a need for much much higher figures. Those

:03:30.:03:35.

won't come just from the budgets of developed countries, they will also

:03:36.:03:39.

come from export credit agencies. They will come from multilateral

:03:40.:03:43.

development banks, and indeed they will come from the private sector

:03:44.:03:49.

itself that hopefully will be able to see their way towards profitable

:03:50.:03:54.

investment opportunities. Halfway to 2020, and that 100 billion has not

:03:55.:04:01.

yet been hit. Bilateral public climate aid from government stood at

:04:02.:04:07.

$23 billion last year. Another 20 billion came from multilateral

:04:08.:04:09.

organisations like the World Bank, a couple of billion from export

:04:10.:04:13.

credits and almost 17 billion from the private sector. The path to 100

:04:14.:04:18.

billion is still being debated tonight in Paris. Some countries are

:04:19.:04:21.

obviously rich and expected to step up. Others obviously poor and

:04:22.:04:26.

expected to benefit, but what about those in between? China and India

:04:27.:04:29.

have much larger economies than save the UK but both argue that most

:04:30.:04:34.

historical carbon emissions have come from the developed West.

:04:35.:04:38.

Advanced economies, they say, must bear a particular burden. And whilst

:04:39.:04:42.

India's economy might be three times as large as Britain's income per

:04:43.:04:47.

head is just 15% of UK levels. The hot topic in Paris tonight is what

:04:48.:04:51.

is being called differentiation, which is basically a fancy way of

:04:52.:04:55.

saying should India, China, Brazil and the rest be paying into that 100

:04:56.:05:00.

billion target? What they want to make sure is that that isn't coming

:05:01.:05:03.

at the expense of the developed countries need to do. They don't

:05:04.:05:07.

want to substitute what developed countries need to do, they want to

:05:08.:05:11.

compensated. So they are working on the exact language to work on how

:05:12.:05:16.

developed countries need to play their part, and provide a finance

:05:17.:05:20.

needed, but we can expect to see from Clement Ric efforts now

:05:21.:05:23.

recognised by some of those emerging economies. The night the talks are

:05:24.:05:29.

dragging on, there is broad agreement on the cover those in the

:05:30.:05:32.

world economy but very little agreement on who will pay for that.

:05:33.:05:36.

For those most affected, there really is no plan B.

:05:37.:05:39.

The BBC's science editor, David Shukman, is in Paris

:05:40.:05:41.

David Shukman, intense horse trading up to the last minute, what is the

:05:42.:05:51.

chance, do you think, of some kind of deal by nine o'clock tomorrow

:05:52.:05:55.

morning? CHUCKLING I think no chance of that. The

:05:56.:06:00.

French have invested a huge amount of political capital in trying to

:06:01.:06:04.

crack this. They had hoped to do today but obviously failed, because

:06:05.:06:09.

some of the issues that Duncan mentioned are really so difficult,

:06:10.:06:12.

and runs so deep is a fault line through this whole process. The idea

:06:13.:06:17.

of them coming up with a new draft tomorrow morning is obviously

:06:18.:06:20.

welcomed here, but for people who have watched this process over the

:06:21.:06:24.

years, they say it is just inconceivable that it can be sorted

:06:25.:06:28.

within a fewer hours of that. Many people expect this might well run

:06:29.:06:33.

over another day in the Sunday, because the difficulties are so

:06:34.:06:36.

immense. I mean, we have heard about some of them, the question of money,

:06:37.:06:40.

that is really fraught, but let me give you another one. Running right

:06:41.:06:45.

through this process is the idea, the desire among many countries, for

:06:46.:06:48.

the text that comes out at the end of this to be legally binding. They

:06:49.:06:53.

see that as the only to give the process some teeth. But the word

:06:54.:06:57.

legally binding, that phrase, is anathema to the Americans, because

:06:58.:07:01.

anything legal might look like a treaty, which they would have to

:07:02.:07:05.

take the Congress with a very poor chance indeed of getting it through.

:07:06.:07:11.

Another really difficult question is reviewing each country's voluntary

:07:12.:07:14.

carbon plans. Under the system operating now, more than 180

:07:15.:07:19.

countries have come up with their own voluntary proposals for how they

:07:20.:07:21.

would deal with the emissions stop but Britain and others say there has

:07:22.:07:27.

to be a review of that. Every five years. China doesn't like that, the

:07:28.:07:32.

French have got a deal with that and hope to do it tomorrow.

:07:33.:07:37.

With me now in the studio is the former Labour leader

:07:38.:07:40.

and the Climate Change Secretary during the Copenhagen talks,

:07:41.:07:42.

the last big chance to find a global deal.

:07:43.:07:44.

Ed Miliband. Obviously there was huge optimism going into this but

:07:45.:07:50.

you have the memory of Copenhagen. If they don't get a deal tomorrow

:07:51.:07:54.

morning, which is the cut-off, if they don't get a deal on Sunday than

:07:55.:07:59.

it has been too ambitious. It feels like a global version of your kids

:08:00.:08:02.

homework crisis, doesn't it? With this last-minute business. But I

:08:03.:08:07.

would give some reassurance here, there have been 21 of these

:08:08.:08:11.

meetings, they have always gone into injury time, and injury time in the

:08:12.:08:15.

injury time. My personal view and I am obviously not there is that they

:08:16.:08:19.

will get a deal. From the text I saw this morning, the draft text, it

:08:20.:08:25.

will be an ambitious deal. I can't tell you that the certain that my

:08:26.:08:28.

sense is that too many countries have come too far. China wants a

:08:29.:08:33.

deal, the United States want a deal, yes, there is lots of difficult

:08:34.:08:38.

issues, in particular developed and developing countries, and if you

:08:39.:08:41.

like who bears the responsibility, finance, cutting emissions. Maybe I

:08:42.:08:46.

am an optimistic person but I think there probably will be an agreement.

:08:47.:08:51.

But the actual permutations should have been sorted out on this

:08:52.:08:55.

question of the hundred billion, who pays income who gets out, long

:08:56.:08:59.

before the horse trading has been going on surely quietly before they

:09:00.:09:04.

reached Paris two weeks ago? I think it is not that the issues weren't

:09:05.:09:07.

known about, it is that the negotiations were always going to go

:09:08.:09:10.

right down to the wire, because that is the way these things are. I wish

:09:11.:09:14.

it weren't so. But this is the way these things have always been done.

:09:15.:09:17.

I don't want to sound like Pollyanna about this but it is much further on

:09:18.:09:23.

than Copenhagen. At this stage, Copenhagen was collapsing around our

:09:24.:09:26.

ears and ending up in a 3-page agreement. There are 27 pages or so

:09:27.:09:31.

of text, there are a fuel as far as I can tell outstanding issues.

:09:32.:09:37.

Critical issues. President Obama has rung the Chinese president tonight

:09:38.:09:42.

and is sort of right in there. As I say, I am optimistic. But is this

:09:43.:09:46.

simply about political will, really in the end, or is it about hard

:09:47.:09:52.

cash? I think it is about both. The reason I think there will be a

:09:53.:09:56.

agreement is the political will question is being answered in the

:09:57.:09:59.

affirmative by the countries that matter. And there is something quite

:10:00.:10:04.

interesting about this agreement, which you mentioned, which is this

:10:05.:10:07.

1.5 degrees then. 2 degrees which you mentioned, which is this

:10:08.:10:10.

has been seen as the benchmark but 2 degrees is a dangerous tipping

:10:11.:10:14.

point. I think if they can come out with 1.5 degrees as the benchmark

:10:15.:10:19.

for this. That will really mark a new beginning. But there is a whole

:10:20.:10:24.

issue as well as to why China and India should be getting any

:10:25.:10:31.

compensation. They are a growing industrialised country, why are they

:10:32.:10:35.

going to get money back out? This is the very compensated issue of loss

:10:36.:10:40.

and damage, how Duport countries get compensated for loss and damage done

:10:41.:10:43.

by developed countries? My sense is that China and India are not really

:10:44.:10:46.

asking for cash in this, maybe that is part of it, but in the end this

:10:47.:10:52.

is about the Marshall islands will disappear potentially if we go above

:10:53.:10:57.

1.5 degrees. This is about the most vulnerable countries. And about

:10:58.:11:01.

having some magnanimity in this but what there isn't either is

:11:02.:11:05.

sanctions. And that I think is a hugely problem because who would

:11:06.:11:08.

administer them and who would pay for them? I think that there aren't

:11:09.:11:13.

sanctions, I would prefer if there was a tougher regime but you are

:11:14.:11:16.

trying to do something so difficult, and frankly you are pushing the

:11:17.:11:20.

boundaries of political will. Let me say on this legally binding point,

:11:21.:11:24.

though, my sense is that there is broad at least implicit agreement

:11:25.:11:29.

that ministers will not be put in jail if they don't meet the targets,

:11:30.:11:32.

right? But the fact that countries have to put forward pledges, the

:11:33.:11:39.

first time that has ever happened, and the way they will be monitored,

:11:40.:11:44.

adding that will be legally binding. Again, that is a significant step

:11:45.:11:47.

forward from where we were six years ago. I don't have skin in the game,

:11:48.:11:53.

in the sense that I have helped negotiate this agreement but I

:11:54.:11:56.

recognise progress when I see it. If there isn't a deal on Sunday or

:11:57.:12:02.

Monday... It will be very bad. Before we finish, a quick word on

:12:03.:12:13.

Stop The War Coalition. The you think our Labour leader should be a

:12:14.:12:20.

member? Honestly that is a matter for him. I am not going to

:12:21.:12:25.

commentate. Jeremy Corbyn has a long-standing association with this

:12:26.:12:30.

organisation, he has a long-standing opposition to different types of

:12:31.:12:35.

intervention. If I may say, I think our party's focus should be on

:12:36.:12:39.

taking the fight to the Tories and working out the ideas that will win

:12:40.:12:43.

as the next general election, not Jeremy Corbyn's political

:12:44.:12:44.

engagements. Well, tonight, Jeremy Corbyn

:12:45.:12:49.

was the guest of honour at a Stop the War coalition

:12:50.:12:51.

fundraiser in London. The former chairman of Stop

:12:52.:12:53.

the War for four years, until his election as leader

:12:54.:12:55.

of the Labour Party in September, was due formally

:12:56.:12:58.

to hand over tonight. He told the dinner guests that

:12:59.:13:00.

"the Stop the War Coalition has been one of the most important democratic

:13:01.:13:03.

campaigns of modern times". He had been urged not to attend

:13:04.:13:05.

the dinner by former Labour frontbenchers Caroline Flint

:13:06.:13:08.

and Emma Reynolds, and the Green Party MP

:13:09.:13:09.

Caroline Lucas stepped down as a patron of Stop the War over

:13:10.:13:12.

statements made in response An article was published

:13:13.:13:15.

on its website, which said that France had "reaped the whirlwind"

:13:16.:13:18.

of Western support for extremist Our reporter, Secunder Kermani,

:13:19.:13:21.

has been at the south London restaurant where the event

:13:22.:13:25.

is taking place tonight. What has been going on, set the

:13:26.:13:33.

scene for us. So, Stop the War coalition

:13:34.:13:44.

supporters have been enjoying a three-course Turkish meal

:13:45.:13:47.

in the restaurant behind me. It's the annual Christmas

:13:48.:13:51.

fundraiser, but this year it's caused controversy,

:13:52.:13:59.

because Jeremy Corbyn He had been the chair of this

:14:00.:14:07.

coalition. That's controversial

:14:08.:14:17.

because Stop the War have been heavily criticised for a number

:14:18.:14:20.

of recent articles, including saying Paris attacks were reaping

:14:21.:14:22.

the whirlwind of western policy Now the group took the articles

:14:23.:14:25.

down, they say that doesn't represent their official line,

:14:26.:14:33.

but earlier this week it emerged that Green MP Caroline Lucas had

:14:34.:14:37.

stepped down from a leadership role partly because of

:14:38.:14:41.

what they had said. And there have been calls

:14:42.:14:43.

from a number of Labour MPs for Corbyn to disassociate

:14:44.:14:46.

himself from the group. One Shadow Cabinet member told me

:14:47.:14:48.

he thinks Corbyn should not But his supporters say it's a big

:14:49.:14:50.

smear campaign by the right wing

:14:51.:15:06.

of the Labour Party. Right-wing Labour, helped

:15:07.:15:11.

by the media, has made it divisive. The Stop The War committee was not

:15:12.:15:13.

a controversial organisation at all until a war was begun

:15:14.:15:16.

in England against Jeremy Corbyn. A war waged by the media,

:15:17.:15:20.

waged by the BBC and waged by the right wing

:15:21.:15:22.

of the Labour Party. So, when you have people

:15:23.:15:24.

like Caroline Lucas, reconsidering their position

:15:25.:15:28.

with Stop the War, doesn't it make It has nothing to do

:15:29.:15:31.

with the committee. I think the Greens may well be

:15:32.:15:37.

worried that Corbyn is winning a lot Nothing to do with the controversial

:15:38.:15:41.

statements that are being affiliated There have been no controversial

:15:42.:15:44.

statements made by Stop the War Now, some of the criticism of Corbyn

:15:45.:15:50.

comes from other figures But it's also fair to say a lot

:15:51.:16:03.

of this boils down to fears in the right wing of Labour that

:16:04.:16:09.

groups like Stop the War, which have a strong socialist

:16:10.:16:12.

worker party presence, for example, are entering

:16:13.:16:14.

into and changing the direction Corbyn's supporters might say he has

:16:15.:16:17.

a huge mandate for the political and that comes because of,

:16:18.:16:30.

not in spite of, his links to groups It must have been pretty devastating

:16:31.:16:36.

for a regional museum in north west Holland when, 11 years ago,

:16:37.:16:42.

an art heist denuded its walls of 24 Dutch Golden Age paintings,

:16:43.:16:45.

which disappeared into thin air. But it must have been just

:16:46.:16:48.

as astonishing when two representatives of a right wing

:16:49.:16:50.

Ukrainian militia turned up at the Dutch Embassy in Kiev,

:16:51.:16:52.

demanding 50 million euros Gabriel Gatehouse has been delving

:16:53.:16:55.

into a murky world where art theft and Eastern European

:16:56.:17:01.

politics collide. They are getting ready for Christmas

:17:02.:17:08.

in the little town of Hoorn. In the 17th century, this

:17:09.:17:12.

was a place of wealthy merchants. These days, Hoorn gets

:17:13.:17:15.

by on the memories of that golden age, the architecture,

:17:16.:17:18.

the artefacts, the paintings. A decade ago, art thieves broke

:17:19.:17:26.

into the local museum. They came at night,

:17:27.:17:29.

locking themselves inside. They made off with 70 pieces

:17:30.:17:33.

of antique silverware So, they took out all the paintings

:17:34.:17:36.

out of their frames Since we have not heard

:17:37.:17:43.

of the collection for over ten years, we believe it

:17:44.:17:50.

is very well prepared. Probably the thieves did not know

:17:51.:17:54.

what they were stealing. This is not the Rijksmuseum

:17:55.:18:00.

and these are not Rembrandts. The theft at the time hardly made

:18:01.:18:04.

waves outside of the local newspapers because they were by

:18:05.:18:07.

lesser-known artists, contemporaries of the old Dutch

:18:08.:18:10.

masters but not quite the real deal. But then, out of

:18:11.:18:14.

the blue, came news. We were very happy because it was

:18:15.:18:17.

the first sign of life about our paintings but then,

:18:18.:18:26.

when we heard they were in the Ukraine, we immediately thought,

:18:27.:18:31.

well, this is making things not Not a lot easier

:18:32.:18:37.

is an understatement. Dutch officials were approached

:18:38.:18:41.

by a commander from The paintings had been

:18:42.:18:48.

found, they were told, while fighting

:18:49.:18:53.

pro-Russian separatists. The museum approached

:18:54.:18:57.

an art investigator, who travelled to Kiev

:18:58.:19:00.

to meet the commander. He told us his soldiers had found

:19:01.:19:07.

these paintings in a war zone and somehow related to somebody

:19:08.:19:10.

befriended to the former president, The Ukrainians sent

:19:11.:19:16.

through a photograph of one of the paintings with a copy

:19:17.:19:22.

of that day's newspaper, So, Arthur Brand started

:19:23.:19:25.

secret negotiations. Newsnight has seen some

:19:26.:19:31.

of the correspondence. The paintings might be returned,

:19:32.:19:33.

the commander suggested, They talked about a finder's

:19:34.:19:36.

fee, 10% of the value. The trouble was the Ukrainians had

:19:37.:19:42.

fastly overestimated the artworks. Well, I could prove to them these

:19:43.:19:49.

paintings were not worth more I showed them auction results

:19:50.:19:52.

of similar paintings Boris said, "Well, my soldiers

:19:53.:19:57.

will not accept this." The other time he said,

:19:58.:20:04.

"The people who have sent me When news reached the museum

:20:05.:20:08.

that the pictures were being offered for sale elsewhere, they feared that

:20:09.:20:20.

time was running out. We asked our BBC colleagues in Kiev

:20:21.:20:23.

to track down Boris. He never asked for 5 million euros,

:20:24.:20:33.

he has never even seen TRANSLATION: I do not have to wait

:20:34.:20:38.

contact with the people who allegedly found this collection,

:20:39.:20:49.

I never did. I only had one way

:20:50.:20:52.

contact with them. When I tried to call them back,

:20:53.:20:56.

the numbers do not exist. The museum says there's a web

:20:57.:21:00.

of influential figures Apart from Boris,

:21:01.:21:02.

the commander, they have named a former head of Ukrainian

:21:03.:21:06.

intelligence and the leader If you take the murky world

:21:07.:21:10.

of international art theft and mix it with the chaos of the conflict

:21:11.:21:19.

in eastern Ukraine, what you end up with frankly is not

:21:20.:21:23.

a huge amount of clarity. I have seen documents that show

:21:24.:21:27.

that the Dutch authorities are taking these allegations

:21:28.:21:30.

of high-level involvement by politicians and intelligence

:21:31.:21:33.

agencies in Ukraine Sleepy Hoorn now finds

:21:34.:21:36.

itself in the eye of Next year the Netherlands will hold

:21:37.:21:44.

a referendum on whether Ukraine should be closer

:21:45.:21:49.

integrated into the EU. Conspiracy theorists are muttering,

:21:50.:21:53.

could this whole scandal be a Russian plot to

:21:54.:21:55.

scupper their chances? Meanwhile, the local museum just

:21:56.:22:00.

wants its paintings back. Hoorn and this region played

:22:01.:22:05.

a major part in the rise of the Dutch Republic

:22:06.:22:07.

in the 17th century. It was a harbour town and,

:22:08.:22:15.

through trade, people We tell this story

:22:16.:22:17.

and these 24 paintings, We miss them every day

:22:18.:22:23.

because they tell such important Even in Trump terms,

:22:24.:22:31.

it's been quite a week for the billionaire real estate

:22:32.:22:42.

mogul who wants to be the Republican

:22:43.:22:44.

presidential candidate. A man who loves a headline,

:22:45.:22:46.

it seems any headline, he made plenty of them with his call

:22:47.:22:49.

to ban Muslims entering America, and now according to Democratic

:22:50.:22:55.

presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, he is no longer

:22:56.:22:56.

funny, but dangerous. And today our Ambassador

:22:57.:23:01.

in Washington slapped him down too, denouncing Trump's assertion

:23:02.:23:04.

that the UK was disguising a massive Muslim problem, and that there

:23:05.:23:07.

were police no-go areas in London. But the latest CBS poll,

:23:08.:23:13.

taken before his anti-Muslim tirade, among Republican voters

:23:14.:23:17.

he is the man to beat, To discuss all of this, we have

:23:18.:23:21.

from Washington Mark Krikorian, of the Conservative Center

:23:22.:23:31.

for Immigration Studies, and from New York,

:23:32.:23:33.

Catherine Rampell, columnist Good evening to you both. Mark,

:23:34.:23:45.

first of all, why do you think Donald Trump gets such traction for

:23:46.:23:51.

his ban on Muslims entering the United States? Well, in general, he

:23:52.:23:59.

gets a lot of traction because of the broad and deep contempt that

:24:00.:24:05.

much of the public holds all believe in. A lot of the attacks, whatever

:24:06.:24:10.

they are attacking him about actually strengthen him because the

:24:11.:24:15.

people attacking him have been utterly failed in their

:24:16.:24:20.

responsibilities as a political and business elite so they have no

:24:21.:24:23.

credibility, specifically on the Muslim issue. Obviously the

:24:24.:24:31.

terrorist attack in California made that salient but our political

:24:32.:24:38.

leaders have refused to address the issues raised by radical Islam. The

:24:39.:24:42.

president will not even call radical Islam by its name and so that simply

:24:43.:24:48.

opens up the kind of opportunity for somebody like Trump, who presents

:24:49.:24:53.

himself as a straight talker and all of this, regardless of how clumsy

:24:54.:24:57.

and corsee years when he talks about this stuff, he is the only one

:24:58.:25:02.

addressing people's concerns and so he is the one who attracts a lot of

:25:03.:25:10.

people's support. Does Mark have a point about elites? What he

:25:11.:25:14.

represents is somebody who is not part of the elite when so much

:25:15.:25:19.

American politics is seen as being a caucus in Washington? It is true and

:25:20.:25:27.

it is not true. He is a billionaire. It is hard to get more elite than

:25:28.:25:32.

that. He is very influential. Here's a reality TV star. If you are

:25:33.:25:36.

talking about the incumbents in Washington, yes committee presents

:25:37.:25:39.

himself very much as an outsider and he is an outsider in that respect.

:25:40.:25:45.

Americans are upset and, to some extent, rightfully so about economic

:25:46.:25:49.

stagnation and other economic anxieties. Here's not really

:25:50.:25:54.

addressing those. I am interested what you are saying about him being

:25:55.:25:59.

a billionaire. He is not beholden to anyone. No one is holding him back.

:26:00.:26:08.

That is his argument. Americans believe that our current political

:26:09.:26:11.

incumbents in the Republican and Democratic parties who are not

:26:12.:26:16.

looking out for their interests, only in the interests of people and

:26:17.:26:20.

corporations that give the money. I understand that Donald Trump is

:26:21.:26:24.

quite appealing because he claims he is self-funded. He is not entirely

:26:25.:26:29.

self-funded. For the most part here is independently wealthy and it is

:26:30.:26:35.

not focus groups or particularly advised by outside experts. Is that

:26:36.:26:40.

because Washington does not by and large address these are people who

:26:41.:26:48.

are not in the Beltway, who are in far-flung states who do not

:26:49.:26:51.

understand what these people are talking about right now? A lot of

:26:52.:26:55.

people are talking that lack of jobs and problems with the economy.

:26:56.:27:01.

Donald Trump taps into that. Coming, Mark. It is more than just an

:27:02.:27:08.

economic issue. You're right that he has not actually... He has talked

:27:09.:27:13.

about economic issues, that is the core thing. What he represents in a

:27:14.:27:19.

crude way is, he is a nationalist. What he is saying I think he is

:27:20.:27:23.

correct despite all of his other floors, much of our elite has become

:27:24.:27:30.

post-American. They're not that interested in the interests and

:27:31.:27:34.

problems and concerns and fears of regular folks and making sure that

:27:35.:27:38.

Americans are the ones who basically win if there is some kind...

:27:39.:27:49.

Comeback on that. I just want to say, he is certainly appealing to

:27:50.:27:57.

Americans anxieties. Whether he is offering policy solutions, I am very

:27:58.:28:03.

doubtful. A lot of his solutions seem to be scapegoating various

:28:04.:28:07.

minorities. Is he actually what Hillary Clinton said, before he was

:28:08.:28:15.

dismissed as being funny but now, Hillary Clinton says he is actually

:28:16.:28:20.

dangerous. What you think about that? That is silly. I am no fan of

:28:21.:28:25.

the guy that the idea he is dangerous is absurd that the these

:28:26.:28:30.

dangers to anybody, he is dangerous to the political cartel both parties

:28:31.:28:34.

have in running the country. In that sense, he is a threat to them. The

:28:35.:28:41.

idea that he is a budding Mussolini or something is rather laughable. It

:28:42.:28:45.

is the hyperbole that helps people and his own supporters are more

:28:46.:28:50.

likely to support him when he is attacked by people. That is indeed

:28:51.:28:55.

what the Republican inner circle has really got to worry about. If they

:28:56.:28:59.

attacked him too much, then perhaps he comes out fighting. There are

:29:00.:29:04.

moves, are there not, to try to shut him down. There are moves afoot to

:29:05.:29:10.

try to curb Donald Trump. What do you know about that? He is very

:29:11.:29:16.

divisive, even in the Republican party. He has a solid core of

:29:17.:29:24.

support amongst an unhappy populous. An anxious group, economically and

:29:25.:29:28.

otherwise anxious group. He is certainly playing to that crowd.

:29:29.:29:33.

There are a lot of Republicans, more moderate and otherwise, who are very

:29:34.:29:38.

turned off by his rhetoric, by his tone, by the fact he has been

:29:39.:29:43.

scapegoating again, not just Muslims but Mexicans in China and immigrants

:29:44.:29:48.

at large. There are a lot of people who were disturbed by the fact he

:29:49.:29:53.

could actually... If you were Republican, he could turn all

:29:54.:29:57.

publicans away from the Republican Party and he became a nominee, they

:29:58.:30:01.

would turn to Hillary. This week, Tate Modern's Chris

:30:02.:30:05.

Dercon profiles Juergen Teller, whose images of the rich and famous

:30:06.:30:08.

over the past three decades have And we should say there is some

:30:09.:30:11.

strong language in this programme. In the 1990s, Juergen Teller's shots

:30:12.:30:25.

for the music and fashion industries

:30:26.:30:29.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS