Browse content similar to 04/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Will Republican nominee Trump now become the most | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
Tonight as Ted Cruz and John Kasich throw in the towel, we'll ask | :00:24. | :00:31. | |
which way the unpredictable Donald Trump will turn now. | :00:32. | :00:33. | |
Can he unify a divided Republican Party? | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
Also tonight: Gabriel is still in search of the European dream. | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
Here's what Brussels values mean to the Hungarian Prime Minister. | :00:43. | :01:02. | |
The car salesman from Delaware who became a do-it-yourself negotiator | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
with Isis tells us his story. This didn't happen over | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
a two-week period. I worked my way up to that point due | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
to the relationships I have and I was very comfortable | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
in being the middleman, Donald Trump is now at about a 30% | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
chance of being US president, There are no other Republicans | :01:18. | :01:30. | |
in the running, the rivals to Trump Who knows, maybe something strange | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
could turn up and stop him, but work on the assumption | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
he is the Republican candidate. Note, this is yet another shock | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
to the professional pundits and pollsters, who didn't see | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
it coming last year. It is also no less than a crisis | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
for American conservatism, having flirted with the mainstream | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
to the neo-cons then to the Tea Party, it has now | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
led by a man with erratic tastes. He has not been very conservative | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
until recently and has made huge donations | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
to the Democrats over the years, Mr Trump has to unite his party | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
and beat Hilary in November. Here's Katie Razzall | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
with her assessment. They wanted him fired, but instead | :02:14. | :02:22. | |
the Apprentice star is hired. I'm Donald Trump and I'm always | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
on the lookout for talented people. I'm looking for someone | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
who is a natural leader. When it comes to a natural leader | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
for America, The Donald He'll be the first presidential | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
nominee in 60 years with no Trump now claims he'll unify | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
the party, having previously given the impression unity wasn't high | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
on his priority list. I see him starting to sweat, | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
like I have never seen I've never seen anybody that lied | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
as much as Ted Cruz did. He's a war hero because | :02:57. | :03:04. | |
he was captured. He failed miserably | :03:05. | :03:06. | |
and it was an embarrassment to everybody including | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
the Republican Party. It's been clear many Republicans | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
wanted anyone but Trump, and in this most divisive | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
of contests they didn't His promises are as worthless | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
as a degree from Trump University. Donald Trump likes to sue people, | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
he should sue whoever He doesn't know the difference | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
comes out of his mouth. That last comment was only | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
yesterday, as Ted Cruz faced Pretty hard to come back | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
from, you'd imagine. So can the GOP really unite | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
behind their presidential nominee? The full Republican Party is not | :03:55. | :03:56. | |
going to unite behind Donald Trump. You have prominent people who said | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
outright there is no way I'm ever going to support Donald Trump, | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
he's not a Republican, I think closer to the general | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
election Donald Trump will pull in some Republicans who might have | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
strayed away for a while. He's going to try to be more | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
moderate, he's going to lean He's going to try to convince people | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
that a lot of his rhetoric before was just for show and that it wasn't | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
actually policy that he plans to implement, but I think it's | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
going to be hard for him to backtrack, especially | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
on his offensive comments. The latest polling pitting Trump | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
and Clinton head-to-head shows On the individual issues, | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
she beats him comfortably in a host of key areas | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
including foreign policy. Education, he said he wants to cut | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
or eliminate the Education And health care, he wants | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
to repeal Obamacare. Clinton does, however, | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
trail Trump on the economy, the issue voters ranked | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
most important of all. He's tapped into voters' | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
frustrations about the economy with big promises | :04:56. | :04:57. | |
to make the country richer. His rhetoric on Muslims and Mexicans | :04:58. | :04:59. | |
may have appealed to some of the predominantly white | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
Republican primary goers, but analysts suggest he'll need two | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
thirds of white voters to pick him in November, a feat reached | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
only by Ronald Reagan, I think anyone who is predicting | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
that he's going to tone it down does not really know the nature of Donald | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
Trump. He is going to say what he wants | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
to say, when he wants to say it. He's a completely unpredictable, | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
from-the-gut personality. And I think that's how | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
he is as a politician. They've been measuring how unpopular | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
presidential nominees are at this 20% of people said they felt | :05:34. | :05:42. | |
unfavourably towards Ronald Reagan A decade later, only about 12% | :05:43. | :05:50. | |
of people disliked Bill Clinton. Other nominees have hovered | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
between four and just Hillary Clinton is the most | :05:55. | :05:56. | |
unpopular candidate on either side, ever, except, that is, | :05:57. | :06:07. | |
for Donald Trump. But if we've learned anything over | :06:08. | :06:09. | |
these past few months, it's that Donald Trump should never | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
be underestimated, and that in this contest you never quite know | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
what will happen next. Joining me now from America | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
is Jason Meister, chair of the Trump campaign in New York and Max Boot, | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
who worked as a senior to one of Trump's rivals, | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
Marco Rubio. Are you going to vote for Donald | :06:31. | :06:41. | |
Trump? Pretty much the last thing in the world I never going to do is to | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
vote for Donald Trump, no way, know-how, not going to happen. OK! | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
You aren't wavering on that, you are quite certain you aren't going to | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
vote for him. You will vote for Clinton, presumably? I would vote | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
for a Conservative third-party candidate or Hillary Clinton. I | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
regard Donald Trump as an ignorant demagogue who is one of the most | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
dangerous candidates to run for the presidency and least qualified. He's | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
the last person we should put in the Oval Office in charge of the most | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
powerful military in the world. He has shown that he doesn't understand | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
the basics of policy, he is xenophobic, he is guilty of sexist | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
comments, he doesn't have any real policy plans that can be achieved, | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
he wants to blow up our oldest alliances, he would be an | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
unmitigated disaster and there is no way I would consider voting for him. | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
Is there a problem perhaps that it is your friends who are saying this | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
about Donald Trump? How is this going to work? It's going to work | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
and we are going to get the never Trump people to come around, they | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
will do a complete 180. Donald Trump just one beating 17 well-qualified | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
Republican candidates -- just won. I think the challenge is behind us. We | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
have a general election facing a dynastic, a career politician, | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
Hillary Clinton, suffering against a committed socialist from Vermont, a | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
74-year-old committed socialist from Vermont. So the alternative I'm | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
afraid is Hillary Clinton and Conservatives are going to rally | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
around him. I'm sick and tired of hearing whether he will be | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
presidential, he isn't Conservative. He knows how to create jobs, he's a | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
guy who understands that you need to bring the corporate tax rate down, | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
we need get government off our backs. We have come off eight years | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
of President Obama, we have 10% real unemployment, we have the lowest | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Labour participation rate in 40 years and the economy is the most | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
important issue. The next important issue is to deal with Isis and | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
homeland security. I think we need an outsider, a guy who has guts, who | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
speaks to the American people, not at the American people and that's | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
what Trump does. How big a strand of opinion in the ber publican party | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
and the Republican base, how big a strand you think you represent? -- | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
the Republican party. You say you will not be won over, what's your | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
assessment of how many can and cannot be won over? We'll find out, | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
in the latest poll by CNN, which showed Hillary ahead of Trump by | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
double digits also showed that among those with... He was seen as | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
unfavourable by 30% of Conservatives, so there is no | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
question that there are many Republicans who will come around in | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
the end simply because they fear Hillary Clinton but I certainly | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
won't and I think a substantial number of die-hard Republicans won't | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
stop your other guest makes it seem that candidate is a normal -- that | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
Trump is a normal candidate with a plan to revive the economy. Let's | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
not forget that he was to ban all Muslims from the country, he was to | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
send the police into American homes to round up undocumented immigrants, | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
he wants to destroy my two and pull our troops out of South Korea and | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
Japan, he was to make nice with that Amir Putin, who was to start trade | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
wars with China and Mexico, two of our longest trading partners -- with | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
Vladimir Putin. He would make us it is lot less secure. -- he would make | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
us a lot less secure. They are talking point is that we've all | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
heard before, it's the media that's been attacking him. He has been | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
attacked by both establishments, Republican and Democrat. He has led | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
every opinion poll, he has beaten every candidate since he announced | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
his presidency and opponents still don't get it because he is speaking | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
to the American people and the American people are ready for | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
change, sick and tired of career politicians. I know what happens in | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
these things, everyone rallies around the candidate, that's the | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
normal form. They insult each other in the campaign and then they rally | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
around. It feels that the insults have been so vehement over the last | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
weeks, Ted Cruz calling him a pathological liar, completely | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
amoral, narcissist, Ted Cruz cannot now stand up and look at the | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
American people and say that they were just joshing and that people | :11:45. | :11:54. | |
should vote for Donald Trump? I think they can and you are going to | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
see not just Republicans rallying around Donald Trump, you are going | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
to see a tremendous amount of Democrats, people I call Trumpocrats | :12:04. | :12:13. | |
rallying around Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton has significant | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
weaknesses. We need an outsider to shake things up and Hillary Clinton | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
is everything but an outsider, she is a dynastic politician. Her | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
husband was a president. In my mind she is the Jeb Bush of the Democrat | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
party. We beat him pretty handily very early on. Ted Cruz made it as | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
far as he did because he was the most outsider as you get from the | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
establishment. A quick one for you, Max. Do you see this as a crisis for | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
Conservative? There were many Conservative choices on offer and | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
none of them really seems to appeal very substantially? -- conservatism. | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
It is a crisis for the Republican party, it's an open question whether | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
it will survive Donald Trump. We just don't know because he has | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
hijacked the party. He only signed up as a Republican in 2012, he isn't | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
the Medley Conservative, he is a populist demagogue -- he isn't | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
remotely Conservative. 40% of Republican primary voters supported | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
him, 10 million people, but in a general election, 130 million people | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
are going to vote. It's funny that the Trump spokesman says we have to | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
listen to the polls numbers, he has been number one in the primary | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
hulls, but he is behind by double digit amounts in the general | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
election polls. He has high unfavourable numbers. Has he brought | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
millions of new voters into the party? He may have brought in some | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
voters but he is driving others out. We have to leave it there. Thank you | :14:03. | :14:03. | |
for joining us. Now, back to Europe, | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
and for the second film in our series looking at the EU | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
from the perspective If you saw last night, | :14:09. | :14:10. | |
you'll know they had a dream of a united Europe | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
and Gabriel Gatehouse has been touring the continent, | :14:15. | :14:16. | |
assessing how much of that To some extent, those post-war | :14:17. | :14:18. | |
visionaries had hoped that our attachment to the idea | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
of the nation state might fade, and the free movement of people | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
around the continent would help But Europe has changed, | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
the EU is much larger than envisaged, and as Gabriel | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
finds, the nation state has proved Out of the ruins of war | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
there rose a vision. What were the aims of | :14:38. | :14:58. | |
the EU's founding Fathers? Last night we examined | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
ever closer union. Tonight we are looking | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
at freedom of movement. We are asking, what's become | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
of the European dream? Apart from a few road signs there's | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
nothing here to tell you that I've just walked | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
across an international frontier. And not just any old frontier, | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
because it's not so very long ago Stretching all the way from | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
the Baltic to the Mediterranean. A line of barbed wire dividing | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
Europe into binary opposites. And this, right here, | :15:47. | :15:48. | |
is the spot where the fence On Hungary's border with Austria, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
thousands gathered to protest. Inside the Soviet bloc, | :15:53. | :16:12. | |
the pressure was building. A group of East Germans made | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
a dash for the fence. 27 years ago this man stood | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
between them and the West. Arpad Bella was in command | :16:22. | :16:32. | |
of the Hungarian His orders were to protect this | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
crossing by force if necessary. He now faced the most momentous | :16:36. | :17:00. | |
decision of his life, one that could help change | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
the course of European history. And so they set off | :17:03. | :17:16. | |
a chain of events. Three months later the fall | :17:17. | :17:30. | |
of the Berlin Wall. The biggest expansion | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
of the European project Now they could move freely | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
across the continent. Having played his part in tearing | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
down the Iron Curtain, Arpad now believes that Europe | :17:45. | :17:56. | |
should again be building fences. So what's happened to the dream | :17:57. | :18:39. | |
of a Europe without borders? What happened to de facto | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
solidarity? In the former Communist states, | :18:45. | :18:55. | |
EU accession has meant freedom For Andras Lovas, a doctor | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
in the Hungarian town of Szeged, it has meant the freedom to move | :18:59. | :19:07. | |
and work throughout the union. For me the European Union is a great | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
thing because I am free to move. It was really easy to move | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
to the UK when I went It was free to move, | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
free to cross the border. But across Eastern Europe, | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
millions of people are moving west for work, and unlike Andras, | :19:24. | :19:34. | |
many don't come back. Bad for my country because more | :19:35. | :19:36. | |
and more of my friends More and more of my friends leave | :19:37. | :19:38. | |
the country, not just to the UK, In Szeged a nurse in a care home | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
earns one sixth of what they When it comes to prosperity the EU | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
has failed to bridge the old gulf The young and the capable are often | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
the first to leave. The Hungarian health care | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
system is under strain. We have an estimation that since | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
Hungary joined the European Union, probably or approximately 5000 | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
medical doctors already There's a deeper sense | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
of unease with Europe, here. An unease that was thrown | :20:14. | :20:30. | |
into sharp relief last summer. Europe's failure to forge a common | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
response boiled over at the train station in Budapest after Germany | :20:38. | :20:46. | |
had unilaterally declared itself And so began the mass movement | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
of people across an unwillingness When the Iron Curtain crumbled, | :20:52. | :21:01. | |
people thought they'd said But when Brussels talks | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
about mandatory quotas for refugees, many see that as the imposition | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
of a liberal worldview. Hungary was the first | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
to close its borders. Freedom of movement is being trumped | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
by concerns over cultural identity. The Hungarian Prime Minister has | :21:23. | :21:53. | |
taken these ideas from the fringes For him and his supporters, | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
the biggest threat to their European identity is the European Union | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
itself. There is a growing dissident | :22:05. | :22:32. | |
movement in European politics. One which rejects ever closer union | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
in favour of a strong nation state. Viktor Orban calls it | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
illiberal democracy. His spokesman thinks liberalism has | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
become an oppressive ideology. Liberalism originally was giving | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
place and space for open, What we see today, that in the name | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
of liberalism, apart from monopolising a couple | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
of issues and themes, there's also a restriction | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
on what and how shall We believe that in most | :23:07. | :23:08. | |
countries around Europe there is maybe a silent | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
but growing majority that recognise what's going on at the European | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
level is maybe against the very nature of the continent, | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
of the culture we are living in. The freedom to travel, | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
investment in infrastructure, billions of euros from the common | :23:28. | :23:36. | |
European pot, somehow all of this has failed to coalesce | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
into a sense of common purpose. And the divisions over Europe's | :23:40. | :23:50. | |
borders are opening up Fissures that are ripe | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
for exploitation. This is the Paks | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
nuclear power plant. Last year Russia agreed to lend | :23:59. | :24:00. | |
Hungary billions of euros Viktor Orban, an admirer | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
of Vladimir Putin, has simultaneously oppose the EU | :24:07. | :24:19. | |
sanctions against Russia. Including Zoltan Illes, | :24:20. | :24:21. | |
who was a minister in Orban's government when the secretive | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
deal was announced. Russia was definitely buying | :24:26. | :24:27. | |
influence in Hungary, and also from a Russian perspective | :24:28. | :24:28. | |
in the whole of Europe. Spending 13 or 14 billion euros | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
in Hungary developing, building up the nuclear facility, | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
power station, for decades Russia will be involved in energy policies | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
of this country as well as Europe. On foreign policy, on border | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
control, on that de facto solidarity, Europe does not | :24:50. | :24:51. | |
speak with one voice. Last night we met one of the EU's | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
founding fathers, Georges Berthoin. In so many fields he believes Europe | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
has not gone far enough. All governments wanted | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
to remain halfway. They wanted a bit of Europe, | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
not too much. All right, when you remain halfway, | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
you have the worst The fall of the Berlin Wall | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
once looked like the The historical inevitability | :25:23. | :25:31. | |
of ever closer union. What 1989 did was it | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
opened Europe up. It gave the peoples of East and West | :25:37. | :25:44. | |
freedom of movement, one of the cornerstones | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
of the European dream. What the migration crisis has done | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
is it's highlighted another aspect, and that is, | :25:56. | :25:57. | |
if you abolish your national borders you also sacrifice part | :25:58. | :25:59. | |
of your sovereignty. And it turns out that there's | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
huge resistance to that. Not just here in Hungary, | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
but across the continent. And so, more than a quarter-century | :26:07. | :26:17. | |
after they tore down the Iron Curtain, they are putting | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
fences back up again. In Hungary and Poland, | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
in Slovakia and Austria, even in Germany and France, | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
the political momentum is shifting towards those who reject the dream | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
of Europe as common space. There are others for whom that idea | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
still exerts an irresistible draw. It is an irony that they are often | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
the ones on the other This is perhaps the biggest | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
crisis of legitimacy Tomorrow night, the economic | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
and political imbalance at the heart Can democratic sovereignty | :27:01. | :27:08. | |
survive monetary union? Gabriel Gatehouse, and part three | :27:09. | :27:18. | |
of that series will be tomorrow. Free movement in the EU | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
is of course, not automatically extended to migrants, | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
or non-EU citizens. Among the many on the continent are | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
thousands of unaccompanied children. The government has controversially | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
resisted taking a share of those children to settle, | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
but it did make a u-turn on that today, saying it would take | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
an unspecified number. Nick Watt, our political editor | :27:41. | :27:42. | |
is with me. What made them do that? They did a | :27:43. | :27:51. | |
raw assessment of the numbers and the numbers were not good. When you | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
put together labour opposition, Liberal Democrat opposition, SNP | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
opposition, at most significantly a significant body of Conservative | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
MPs, Prime Minister looked at the numbers and said, we better beat a | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
hasty retreat. Otherwise there would have been parliamentary ping-pong | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
with the bill going between the two chambers of parliament. And it was | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
under the cover of the anti-Semitism row. Did they themselves think, | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
we've just lost the argument on this? We lost the case and we should | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
withdraw with dignity? The Prime Minister is not going to want to | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
make that he lost an argument but there is one area he has abandoned | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
the defining feature of his response to this crisis which was that the UK | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
would not take refugees from continental Europe, but only from | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
camps in the region, because he would not want to encourage people | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
to cross the Mediterranean. One area where they say they are wrong firm | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
ground, they say they wanted to avoid the mistake Angela Merkel | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
made, to say that the borders for Germany were open. They have come up | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
with a cut-off which they say should avoid the problems. | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
Well, joining me now to discuss this is the MEP Stephen Woolfe, | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
Ukip's frontbench spokesperson on migration, and Heidi Allen, | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
Conservative MP for South Cambridgeshire who had said | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
she was prepared to vote against the government before | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
David Cameron's policy u-turn earlier today. | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
You have been welcoming all over the place today, the policy. Do you know | :29:22. | :29:30. | |
what the policy is, how many are we talking about? It is being firmed up | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
as we speak. The clear message from the Immigration Minister James | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
Brokenshire I is that as soon as we are out of the local election | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
tomorrow he is going to write to the local authorities asking what they | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
can take. Last year, we resettled about 3000 children in this country. | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
He will be talking in those terms, that's what we did last year, look | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
for those numbers this year. Last year they were taken from camps | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
around Syria. Some of them. The question is, if we take some from | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
continental Europe, are we going to take viewer from the camps? The same | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
number in total, but just switching? No, this is just in addition. Are | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
you sure, more than last year? If you look at the legislation, the | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
amendment we are accepting, we talk about the original 20,000 scheme, | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
the 3000 announced a fortnight ago and this is in addition. How many | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
are you expecting to be Syrian, and how many from other parts of the | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
world? To be honest I don't think the analysis has been done, nor is | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
it likely because the government policy is to work with the experts | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
on the ground, Save the Children, UNHCR, and take guidance from them. | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
Children at risk who are the most honourable. You aren't -- the most | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
vulnerable. You would rather the government stuck to the original | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
line? Yes, we need to ensure that the people traffickers who are | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
making billions out of this, and everyone knows that they are, we | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
must ensure that they are not using the children as a weapon in some | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
ways. If you have the children in the camps, where they are well | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
looked after by the same government agencies that Heidi has talked | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
about, you can safely assure that they are looked after, we can make | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
sure that the asylum process are looked after there. It is difficult | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
to make sure when they come into the UK. Yes, there will be 3000 children | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
coming over who are suffering in the camps at the moment, but there are | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
100,000 children in the United Kingdom tonight who will be living | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
in homeless accommodation, bed-and-breakfast, hotels and they | :31:42. | :31:43. | |
will feel that they are being put to the back of the queue. Can I ask you | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
what you would expect to happen to those children who are already in | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
Europe, who are if you like and accompanied, lonely here, what would | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
you expect to happen to them? Would you expect them all to be taken by | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
France? You say they will go through the procedure but I'm not sure what | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
happens at the end. We are not sure, maybe Heidi can tell us what's going | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
to happen to the 3000 children currently in the camps and are | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
expected to come to the UK. Clearly there is a responsibility to France | :32:17. | :32:18. | |
and Italy and the other countries where these children are to abide by | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
the same rules that we are abiding by, the UN rules on children and | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
human rights, it is to make sure they put their hands in their | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
pockets and look after them too. There seems to be a shifting of the | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
policy from them that they want to put them in camps and ignore them, | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
why are they being ignored when they have facilities to look after them | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
in France, Italy and the other countries in Europe? This is a point | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
the Prime Minister made. People made the point that it was like the | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
candour transport, helping Jewish children before the Second World War | :32:54. | :33:02. | |
-- the Kinder transport. But it isn't quite like that. Yes, you | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
think it is all Europe, it must be safe. I have visited Calais and | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
Lesbos, as many MPs have, and there is anything but safety there. | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
Economically they are on their knees, places like Greece, not in a | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
state to do this and thousands of people coming every day. It's chaos, | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
they can't cope and there is some pretty nasty stuff happening to | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
children who aren't safeguarded, no one is protecting them which is why | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
I feel we have a responsibility, as every European country has, to work | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
through this and identify the children that each of us can take. | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
Wouldn't it be selfish for the British to say that we have a | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
collective problem, people have arrived here, we should all do our | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
bit rather than just say, France, you have to deal with them all, or | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
Italy and Greece, it's your problem because they landed on your shores? | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
We've never said that we shouldn't be taking any children at all, we | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
have said that the 20,000 figure that the Prime Minister had put out | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
should be the figure that is kept in place. Those children should be | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
taken from the camps because it sends a strong message. It isn't | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
about selfishness either. What we are looking at, even in the | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
constituency that Heidi has, there will be 9000 children in East | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Cambridgeshire who are without a home tonight. We are short of over | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
8000 foster carers, 8000 children in the foster system, without homes. | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
What we are saying, we are going to take 3000, it is going to cost us | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
100 million a year, but we will have problems housing our own. What I | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
would like to say to Heidi is, yes, bring in children but are you going | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
to have amendments to government policy that says we will double the | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
amount of money for councils to look after the existing children who are | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
homeless tonight? Are you going to put the half a billion that would | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
match that? But we put that, you have ten seconds, sorry. The great | :35:04. | :35:12. | |
British public, offering help, rallying as communities, maybe we | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
can learn something and bring our own children into the foster network | :35:16. | :35:16. | |
too. Thank you for joining us. Now each week on Newsnight | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
during this referendum campaign we've been trying to help | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
you make your decision on how to vote, by offering a little space | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
to some people who are not involved in the campaigns, to tell us | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
about their decision. Tonight, the Scottish billionaire | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
Tom Hunter gives us his On the one hand I'm | :35:31. | :35:32. | |
worried about sovereignty You know, pretty proud of what we're | :35:33. | :35:48. | |
doing here in Britain. And I wouldn't want to give too much | :35:49. | :36:01. | |
power away to some faceless In terms of my other worry, | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
if we left, I think I would be I'd be worried about London's | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
position as being financial I still think there's a long way | :36:10. | :36:20. | |
to go in this debate. I find it really confusing | :36:21. | :36:29. | |
when people of the same political party are ripping each other | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
to shreds with this argument. And it's hard to get to say | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
where are the facts? I think at this point in the debate | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
it's too close to call. I think always in these | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
debates it's quite boring And I think the Leave campaign have | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
got probably more charismatic speakers like Michael Gove and Boris | :36:52. | :37:00. | |
Johnson. They are quite entertaining | :37:01. | :37:02. | |
but frankly, if I want to be Can you imagine, in a quiet evening, | :37:03. | :37:04. | |
sitting at the computer, browsing social media and getting | :37:05. | :37:16. | |
involved in conversations Well from the US, comes | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
an intriguing story of a car salesman from Delaware, | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
Toby Lopez, who did that. But it got to a very serious point, | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
after meeting people he believed were Isis officials online, | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
he ended up trying to negotiate the release of US | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
hostage Kayla Mueller. In doing so he angered the FBI | :37:38. | :37:39. | |
and was arrested and locked up He's now been told he won't have | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
to stand trial, that all charges against him have been dropped, | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
and he's free to tell his story. I began by asking him how he got | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
involved in negotiating What got me involved in that was a | :37:50. | :38:03. | |
relationship that was developed over months, culminating in mean | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
negotiating for a United States hostage. To all of the people | :38:07. | :38:14. | |
criticising me, yeah, I agree, it's not what most people do. Because of | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
my relationships, the tyres I had within that organisation, they | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
wanted to use me to facilitate her release -- ties. In your opinion, | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
what happened to make them suddenly come out in some number and arrest | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
you, take you away, and effectively lock you up for 14 months? That's | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
what happens when you know as much as the United States government and | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
you have e-mails indicating them in the Kayla Mueller hostage | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
negotiation with me. I told the head of the FBI, the supervising agent I | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
was talking to, I told him that these gentlemen know who I am and | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
I've been dealing with them for six months now. You know who I am and | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
who I'm talking to. They said that they didn't want any B I funny | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
business and they said all I'm going to do by telling me to stand down | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
and negotiate with the same people, you are going to be exposed and you | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
will get her killed in the process -- any FBI funny business. It isn't | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
because of what I did, it's because of what I knew. Do you ever think | :39:24. | :39:32. | |
you got in way too deep for a car salesman from Delaware? I think I | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
was in way over my head and the beginning, but at the end, I knew | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
exactly what I was dealing with and I knew what I was doing. Like I | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
said, I had been involved with the FBI followed across -- for other | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
four 's. They are incarcerated joo and it was unpleasant because it was | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
partially jail and partially medically supervised -- for four 's. | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
-- they incarcerated you. What was in Caceres and like? I was put in | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
isolation -- what was incarceration like. I was in there for nearly six | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
months straight at the beginning and they moved me multiple times to | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
facilities, from Philadelphia to New York, to Oklahoma City. They moved | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
me so many times, and they cut my communications down to nothing and | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
there was no justification from them as to why I was put in isolation, | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
thrown in the hole for as long as I was stopped they tried to say that I | :40:44. | :40:52. | |
was delusional and making it up. That's the way for the United States | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
to discredit people. If I had told myself my own story without any | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
factual evidence to back it up I would say that I was delusional. The | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
United States government had this information but they didn't release | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
it to the government doctors because they wanted the finding that I was | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
delusional, to discredit me. They wanted the fact that, found | :41:14. | :41:21. | |
incompetent to stand trial, the government could hold me | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
indefinitely. We live in the United States, not Russia. Looking back at | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
what you were doing, do you think you are at least obsessed, that you | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
went too far? Can you see it from their point of view? Yeah, maybe. I | :41:35. | :41:44. | |
had a passion. Just like Kayla Mueller was passionate about going | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
over there and helping children in that region, she had a passion to do | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
that. Is she insane? No. Thank you for joining us. | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
Election day across the country tomorrow, Kirsty will be here | :42:00. | :42:07. | |
tomorrow evening. Until then, good night. | :42:08. | :42:18. | |
Slowly and surely, the nights are getting a bit less cold. A lovely | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
sunny start, | :42:26. | :42:26. |