Browse content similar to 11/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Facing destruction, or business as usual? | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
Where will the BBC be this time tomorrow? | :00:12. | :00:13. | |
The government is to set out its plans to change the way it's run. | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
If it didn't already exist you wouldn't invent it, | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
But it does work in practice and so it would be an act | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
of vandalism to get rid of it from a purely Tory point of view. | :00:24. | :00:33. | |
to independent public service broadcasting. | :00:34. | :00:34. | |
Censorship in China. Hello and welcome to BBC World News, what | :00:35. | :00:49. | |
happened to the golden era of British relations... | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
The Chinese evidently don't want to know what the Queen said about them. | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
So tonight we'll ask where relations between Britain and China now stand | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
and bring you fresh clues about what caused the row. | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
And a rare chance to hear from the mime artist who inspired - | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
Splendid, shining, always inspired creature. | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
When he was on the backbenches, Culture Secretary John Whittingdale | :01:06. | :01:23. | |
was for years pre-occupied by the BBC and the media landscape. | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
He was seen as a critic, describing the licence fee | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
Well, tomorrow, from the front bench, he gets to actually shape | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
policy, with a White Paper on the BBC, and the renewal | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
That poll tax will survive but there will be changes to the way | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
It's all about whether the Government will end up having | :01:43. | :01:54. | |
too much say in who runs the corporation. | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Now, just before we get into this, the key background you need | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
is that there are two BBC boards at the moment, the real | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
one that runs the BBC, and is appointed by the BBC. | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
And the BBC Trust that supervises the BBC and is | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
Our political editor Nick Watt is with me. | :02:09. | :02:19. | |
What do you know about what will be in this white Paper? I have been | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
talking to my sources. There is an official government note out of | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
which cannot be reported until midnight. The government has decided | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
it does not want another row will stop it has the junior doctors and | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
teachers on its back. It looks like they have reigned in the culture | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Department through an intervention. -- another row. The want to say that | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
they are protecting its historic independence. You will see this in | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
the new board. What they will suggest is that the BBC will have | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
the ability to ensure that it, not the government, can have a majority | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
of members on that board. The government will appoint the chair, | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
the deputy chair, but they will have to consult for the nations and | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
regions. Then the BBC will have to decide so it can have a majority. | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
And the medium remit, inform, entertain, and educate, that will be | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
there but there will be some tweaks on the remit. With regards to the | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
things we have been told to prepare for, it sounds like it has been a | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
bit Watership Down. Will it still be controversial? There will be | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
concerns. The Tories, Labour and Lib Dem people will say, is there not | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
some interfering on the board? Some senior Tory members are concerned | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
about the chair of the current trust. There is a suggestion she | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
will move to be the new head of the new board. Words that she is not | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
very effective and was appointed by George Osborne and perhaps we need a | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
bit more independence. Labour politicians, some mainstream ones, | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
will be saying we don't like the way the left of the Labour Party have | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
been attacking the BBC. But this has been a debate within the | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
Conservative Party so we thought we would take a look at the | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
Conservative relationship with the BBC down the decades. | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
A national treasure is celebrating his 90th birthday this week. | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
Prompting joy amongst his friends and a rare moment of consensus | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
amongst our political leaders. Would the Prime Minister join me in | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
wishing Sir David Attenborough a very happy 90th birthday. I | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
certainly join you in wishing a very happy birthday to David | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
Attenborough. Sir David Attenborough is pretty much the same age as the | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
BBC. Since the early days of public broadcasting in the 1920s arguments | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
have raged about the BBC's role. At this year is no exception. Following | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
the lefty Lovie exterior at the weekend, does my right honourable | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
friend agree that scrapping the discredit of BBC trust, asking for | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
more transparency in a publicly funded organisation, and wanted the | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
BBC to be instinctive and impartial is hardly the end of public service | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
broadcasting as we know it. CHUCKLES | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
The Conservative Party has had tortured relationship with the BBC. | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
Conflicting emotions about its place in our life 's world within the | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
heart of many a Tory. There are many conservatives that dislike anything | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
that seemed to be a publicly funded state institution. -- in our life | :05:43. | :05:53. | |
swirled. There are things that reflect the national character. It | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
would be an act of vandalism to get rid of it, from a Tory point of | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
view, because it is an institution that works. When you think of people | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
who like Strictly, who like the Archers, they are mostly | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
conservatives. The culture Secretary John Whittingdale knows the danger | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
of crossing Ambridge fans as he embarks on the first renewal in 20 | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
years by a Conservative government of the BBC royal charter. What is | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
interesting is that even in the 80s when there were concerned up and | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
down Westminster and Whitehall about the political passing of the BBC. | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
Mrs Thatcher was still not willing to take serious political measures | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
which would have constraint it. These instincts often coexist within | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
the same politicians. -- constrain it. That is because they understand | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
and admire many of the things the BBC does. David Attenborough's | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
birthday this week is a classic example of that. They're also very | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
concerned about the effective and fair proper spending of public money | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
in a license fee arrangement which socially quite regressive. Memories | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
of the rows between the BBC and the Thatcher government still run deep, | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
particularly over the reporting of Northern Ireland and the miners | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
strike. The BBC director-general lost his job after the man appointed | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
by the Margaret Thatcher to chair the board of governments flexed his | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
muscles. One figure at the heart of some of those rows in the 1980s | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
dismisses fears that history will repeat itself. Absolutely that is | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
not crossing the line. When I was the controller of BBC One misses | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
that was at the height of her powers. She packed the board with | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
one of us and the processes today for appointments, even if government | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
appointments, these are public appointments, everybody knows about | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
it, there are no secret votes, no jobs for friends, it doesn't happen | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
any more, it is much more open. -- this was at the height. Others | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
disagree. There needs to be clear distance between the government of | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
the day and the people who are deciding when and where and how the | :08:15. | :08:22. | |
BBC is covering news. The government insists it is protecting the BBC's | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
historic independence and we will find out tomorrow morning whether | :08:27. | :08:27. | |
MPs agree. Joining me now are two | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
Conservative politicians - the former Conservative Chairman | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
Lord Fowler, and Andrew Bridgen MP, chair of the regulatory | :08:33. | :08:34. | |
reform select committee. Good evening. The controversy, I | :08:35. | :08:46. | |
suppose, is government directly appointing people who will be | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
directly running the BBC. What do you feel about that? Well, what I | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
did feel until I heard the preamble to the programme, is that there are | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
great dangers in that. But if the story is that John Whittingdale has | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
great dangers in that. But if the changed tack, and that we are now | :09:09. | :09:10. | |
going to have a truly independent board, then obviously that is | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
something to welcome. There is a real problem with the BBC right at | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
the centre of it. This is my concern all along. We have been through this | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
great consultation. Almost everybody has been consulted. And at the end | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
of the day we have a white paper. has been consulted. And at the end | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
Then we think, well, now we have the bill, but you don't. The decision | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
rests with the government. I think this is a central issue which at | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
some stage we need to face. That it shouldn't be left on ministers to | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
decide. It should be parliament, and particularly | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
decide. It should be parliament, and You don't get to vote on it but you | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
can debate on it. Let's be clear, the government will appoint people, | :09:56. | :09:56. | |
directly, to the government will appoint people, | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
runs the BBC. Not a majority but it the government will appoint people, | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
and you are the government will appoint people, | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
that? I would prefer it if all of the board were independent members | :10:11. | :10:12. | |
and were appointed by an independent commission. But if the compromise is | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
the kind of compromise you set out I don't think everybody is going to | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
die in a ditch. We shall have to see the detail and what the numbers | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
actually are. Is it going far enough for you? You have been a critic of | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
the corporation. I am a critic of anything that has authority and | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
power without accountability. The government appointed all of the | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
members of the trust previously. The new board will begin new structure. | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
The unitary board will be responsible. I laid down an | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
The unitary board will be the TV licence. That led to the | :10:53. | :11:05. | |
Perry review. I have to accept that it did not go ahead. What I want to | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
see is a structure, a structure for the BBC to go forward to thrive in a | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
rapidly changing marketplace and respond to that. Before we leave | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
that, it is important to say that the BBC trust, which we all... I, as | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
chairman of select committee at the time, we all advised against that. | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
The Labour government went ahead and put it in. It is very welcome, the | :11:35. | :11:45. | |
BBC trust -- the fact it has gone. Government can go over the opinions | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
of the mass of people and the mass of politicians. As I understand it, | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
leading up to the failure of the trust, this 11 year period which | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
will be a health check five-year stint away to make sure the | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
government system is working, which is very sensible. -- which will be a | :12:03. | :12:15. | |
health check five years into it. Doesn't it always feel like it is | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
always coming up to another review? No, it will be a health check of the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
government's regime. The last one failed. It isn't a health check on | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
the BBC, it is on the regime. That's right. And there have been scandals | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
recently. You have got to be careful that you don't get into a situation | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
where it feels like the BBC is always under investigation. No | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
business can act like that. It should be under constant | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
examination... It should be but from the independent board. If you are | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
going to have examination, call it what you will, at five years, and | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
then 11 years, the impression is going to be that government | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
ministers are looking over the shoulder of the BBC. We don't want | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
to go back to what I regard as the old nationalised industry where | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
ministers got involved. When the BBC is receiving the thick end of ?4 | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
billion of taxpayers money every year I think there needs to be a | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
level of accountability. With the new charter, that will be increasing | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
by inflation. But you have to decide who actually does the process of | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
accounting. That is the crucial question. Do you think it is | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
appropriate for the governing party to play a big part in holding the | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
state broadcaster, let's call it that, to account? The government is | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
elected, after all, does that give us mandate to regulate? Because the | :13:52. | :14:00. | |
BBC is receiving such amounts of taxpayers money, which is 2.5 times | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
the amount of Commonwealth office Budget, the government has a | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
responsibility to the taxpayer to ensure that is delivering value and | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
acting within its charter specifications. In Poland at the | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
moment there is a big controversy, it's been criticised by everybody | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
because it is changing its media government arrangements by putting | :14:21. | :14:21. | |
government appointees on the board. I think one of the crucial things | :14:22. | :14:36. | |
about this review, this charter, is going to be to see how much | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
micromanagement the Government is going to do, and as far as I'm | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
concerned, Iran's number of nationalised industries when I was | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
doing transport, but if you took reduce rail for example, civil | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
servants and Ministers had a look at the organisation, then the Prime | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
Minister had a look at the organisation. It is a bad way of | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
running a big organisation in this country. We have to look at the | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
whole white paper as a whole, we need to have an open mind. It does | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
feel as though it has been watered down, I wonder if that is a pattern, | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
that there is a lot of tough talk and a bit of BBC bashing, the Tory | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
party and the BBC not always the best of friends, but at the end of | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
day, it perhaps does get watered down, is that the perception? The | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
perception is everyone wants to reform the BBC and various things in | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
it, and events happen that supersede those. There are certainly events | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
going on at the moment which are important to the future of our | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
country, perhaps even more important than the future of the BBC. It | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
should be said just before we end that the BBC is one of the most | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
important institutions in this country, and a world leader, and if | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
we have got any sense, we don't take out of it. Thank you both very much | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
indeed. The Queen's inadvertent reveal | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
yesterday, of some of the behind the scenes tensions during the state | :16:02. | :16:03. | |
visit of China's President Li Xiaoping last year, | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
perhaps inadvertently also showed just how well the trip went - | :16:09. | :16:10. | |
that on stage, so little Those smiles all round, | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
were a display of true But tensions there were - | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
and about more than simply a bit Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban has | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
been combing through the footage and has discovered some fresh clues | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
as to the arguments going on. The Queen's ride with President Xi | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
in his state carriage was intended to personify | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
a golden era in relations. But reports that British police had | :16:36. | :16:45. | |
stopped a Chinese intelligence officer being inserted into that | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
carriage as an interpreter are apparently confirmed | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
by a conversation at that The Met police tonight declined | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
to comment on that and an earlier part in the same conversation | :16:54. | :17:04. | |
when the Queen revealed her views It was during that visit that | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
Chinese student demonstrators tried to drown out and screen off Tibetan | :17:08. | :17:34. | |
and other protesters. They complained at the time | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
that they had been given too little space by the police so as not | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
to upset the Chinese. Many in the Foreign Office felt | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
the visit marked their final defeat in China policy by George | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
Osborne and the Treasury. China policy was taken over | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
by George Osborne and a number of people in the Treasury | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
obviously as his advisers, That battle between those who wanted | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
to put trade first and those who had favoured a more assertive policy | :18:03. | :18:12. | |
has ebbed and flowed His decision to meet the Dalai Lama | :18:13. | :18:14. | |
in 2012 caused a deep freeze in relations with Beijing | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
that the Chancellor It certainly is the kind of thing | :18:23. | :18:24. | |
that the Chinese government complains about very publicly, | :18:25. | :18:33. | |
but actually, if you look at what the Cameron government seems | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
to care a great deal about, which is trade and investment, | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
it had almost no impact at all. So the Prime Minister | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
was not welcome in China, but actually, business went | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
on pretty much as usual, and you will find that the Chinese | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
are pretty pragmatic In his fight to push past | :18:54. | :18:55. | |
the Dalai Lama meeting, the Chancellor travelled to the east | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
of China and embraced Chinese bond As the prospect of a Chinese | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
presidential visit grew, the Queen was pressed | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
into the effort, meeting When arrangements were being made | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
for the Chinese premier to visit, there were some quite robust remarks | :19:14. | :19:22. | |
about the visit being cancelled if he was not granted an audience | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
with the Queen, for example. And we seem to be | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
seeing similar stuff. It all has to do, I believe, | :19:35. | :19:53. | |
with the culture of a communist bureaucracy, where officials | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
are desperately keen to earn brownie So determined whether Chancellor | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
and Prime Minister that President Xi Jinping's visit | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
here last year should go without a hitch, | :20:04. | :20:04. | |
they tried to ban various senior public figures | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
from seeing the Dalai Lama. They asked Prince Charles, | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
for example, not to do so, and for a written guarantee | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
from Nick Clegg that In the past seven months, | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
some of the sparkle has already Joining me now is the Hong Kong-born | :20:14. | :20:27. | |
entrepreneur Sir David Tang, who attended the state banquet | :20:28. | :20:39. | |
for the Chinese President during his So when you are at that banquet, was | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
their talk and gossip about tensions and things going on behind the | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
scenes? Know, everything was very friendly, and it was a very fine | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
banquet, no hitches at all. One of the charges is that the Queen feels | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
that the amp bustard, that the Chinese team were rude to the | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
ambassador. It could be that they were rude, it could be a | :21:06. | :21:14. | |
ambassador. It could be that they clash. Nobody will know because we | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
weren't there. There are two different cultures and two different | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
languages. I speak both English and Chinese, and for us Chinese even, we | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
are very monosyllabic and very loud and very blunt, because it is | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
staccato, every word is a singular sound, so even to ourselves we sound | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
a bit rude, so to the west and we might sound very rude. And when that | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
is translated into English, that is even possibly more rude. When I went | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
to Beijing and I wanted an alarm call, when the phone came at seven | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
o'clock, I picked up the phone, and at the other end, the concierge | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
says, get out! For the Chinese, that is not rude. So there could be a | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
cultural misunderstanding, one would hope that the ambassador at least | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
would understand. British diplomats are very soft-spoken. Did you know | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
anything about the row over who got into the carriage to ride with the | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
Queen? I think only the interpreter, who was probably the security guard | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
as well. He obviously spoke Chinese and English, but this whole incident | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
is really a storm in a teacup. If the gold commander, as she was | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
called, should complain about the Chinese, I can't imagine what she | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
would be like dealing with the Americans. All these people in dark | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
glasses with Ian things coming out looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger. | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
They must have been incredibly... Do you think the Chinese care about | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
this kerfuffle? They appeared to care enough that they censored it | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
from the BBC One broadcast -- BBC World broadcast. This incident is | :23:13. | :23:20. | |
completely a storm in a teacup. I actually thought that it was rather | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
odd for the Lord Chamberlain to bring this subject up at a garden | :23:26. | :23:35. | |
party. They were enjoying, albeit raining rather heavily, but why do | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
you want to talk about somebody being rude ten months ago when you | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
could be talking about so many things? They could be making small | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
talk about the rain and the weather! Do you think the Chinese would be | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
surprised that it has been broadcast and publicised everywhere? I don't | :23:53. | :24:00. | |
think so. Not even the Chinese, but I shouldn't imagine the British | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
Government couldn't care less about how this was interpreted. It is | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
really a non-incident. The fact that they heard what the Queen said, the | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
Queen is perfectly entitled to her own private conversation. I blame, | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
I'm afraid, again the Lord Chamberlain for putting a microphone | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
near her and not heeding that whatever she said could have been | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
heard. What is the general state of Anglo-Chinese relations at the | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
moment? You have Chancellor George Osborne, you can't get more slick | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
than him, he is like an Exxon Valdez oil slick as far as the Chinese are | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
concerned, and they love it! Thank you very much. | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
The American attorney general Loretta Lynch ignited a huge buzz | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
of excitement this week, with some words on the rights | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
It wasn't even a speech as such, but merely a statement | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
She was announcing that the US government is taking action | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
against the state of North Carolina, which has courted controversy | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
by passing legislation that demands everybody uses the bathroom that | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
accords to their gender at birth, rather than the gender | :25:12. | :25:13. | |
The arguments have been raging on that, but the intervention | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
of the attorney general has been called the "I have a dream moment" | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
This law provides no benefit to society, and all it does is harm | :25:22. | :25:32. | |
innocent Americans. And instead of turning away from our neighbours, | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
friends and colleagues, let us instead learn from our history and | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
avoid repeating the mistakes of our past. Some of you have lived freely | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
for decades, and others of you are still wondering how you could | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
possibly live the lives that you were born to lead. But no matter how | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
isolated, no matter how afraid and no matter how alone you may feel | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
today, know this. That the Department of Justice and indeed the | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
in tire Obama administration want you to know that we see you. | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
Interesting to hear a comparison made to the civil rights | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
From bathroom rights to bigger things. | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
Over a few years we've seen dramatic changes in attitudes | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
towards trans issues, but does the comparison | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
to the advance in black civil rights stand? | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
Joining me now is Kerri Kupec, who works for the Alliance Defending | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
And from San Francisco, the executive director | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
of the Transgender Law Center, Kris Hayashi. | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
Thank you both for joining us. Kris, if I could start with you, how | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
excited are you buy that Loretta Lynch statement? The federal | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
government made it clear that discrimination against transgender | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
people will not stand, and as I watched the Attorney General speak | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
on Monday, I thought about all of the transgender leaders, | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
particularly transgender women of colour who have fought for rights, | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
whose work bought us to this moment, and who I no longer with us because | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
of hatred and violence. As a transgender man myself, someone who, | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
when I was born, the doctor said I was a girl, but I have always known | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
myself to be a man and I have lived most of my life as a man, is a | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
transgender person of colour, I have rarely felt truly seen by the people | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
and systems that make up our government, and Monday was a rare | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
moment where I not only felt seen, but I felt that the federal | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
government would join with us in this battle against discrimination. | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
Kerri, where you moved at all by the Attorney General's statement on | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
Monday? I was moved, but I was not moved in a positive way, as both an | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
attorney and a woman, I was very concerned about the words coming | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
from our nation's chief attorney. Yes it is important to see everyone, | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
as she said, absolutely, but the problem with her words is she was | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
ignoring and quite rightly marginalising millions of women | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
across this country who understandably and justifiably feel | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
very concerned about the idea of allowing men into intimate settings | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
like a women's allowing men into intimate settings | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
Attorney General is taking, using the Civil Rights act to take action | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
against the Civil Rights act to take action | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
that point, and you think that is an abuse of the Civil Rights act to do | :28:33. | :28:33. | |
that Chris? abuse of the Civil Rights act to do | :28:34. | :28:42. | |
privacy law is fully compliant abuse of the Civil Rights act to do | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
federal law. It forbids discrimination on the basis of sex, | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
and sex. That does not include gender identity or how one perceives | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
their gender and sex. The plain meaning of the text says biological | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
sex. The legislative history, the sponsors of the bills at the same, | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
in fact of the sponsors of one of the act of the Department of Justice | :29:09. | :29:09. | |
specifically says that the act of the Department of Justice | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
that facilities can still maintain sex-specific facilities. And there | :29:15. | :29:23. | |
is a real irony here. Protecting against sex discrimination in the | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
60s and 70s came as a result of combating Sextus ruination against | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
60s and 70s came as a result of women. Women | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
60s and 70s came as a result of shake in employment and | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
60s and 70s came as a result of these same laws that were designed | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
60s and 70s came as a result of to protect women are now being used | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
against women, and telling women that regardless of how they feel, | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
regardless of what their feelings and concerns are, | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
regardless of what their feelings into their locker rooms, and | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
regardless of what their feelings trump women's. Kris, hold your | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
discussion on the bathroom policy, I just want to know | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
discussion on the bathroom policy, I about using the Civil Rights act for | :30:00. | :30:01. | |
the transgender movement, because clearly that wasn't what was in the | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
mind of those who drafted that back in the 1960s. It is very | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
straightforward. Transgender people are protected from discrimination | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
under Sextus rumination law. We are protected from discrimination in | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
employment under title seven, transgender students are protected | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
from discrimination, and in the transgender Law Centre in 2012 won | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
the case and made very clear that transgender people are protected | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
from discrimination. What the eternal General did was simply | :30:40. | :30:48. | |
reaffirm the law. Kerri, you can't see that Mac one, he is in the other | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
studio. What is your problem with him going into amen's bathroom. It | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
wouldn't be common sense for him to go into a women's bathroom, which is | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
what North Carolina forces him to do. | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
They force those to undress. It is a fundamental right to privacy. | :31:09. | :31:20. | |
Everybody deserves that. This law strips the right of privacy from | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
everybody who understandably, and justifiably, feel concerned about | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
the idea of undressing in front of a biological man. I think it is not | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
what about the ones or what I want, but what is best for the millions of | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
people across this country who have concerns. Those concerns should be | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
recognised. These people shouldn't be slandered or attacked but should | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
be recognised. Do you understand that? As a transgender person safety | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
is important. But transgender people face disproportionate rates of | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
violence and harassment. There are already laws in place in North | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
Carolina. It is true across the country to protect women, children, | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
anyone from facing this. The reality of the law is that it opens the door | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
for harassment. Not just against transgender people but against | :32:19. | :32:20. | |
anybody who looks a bit different. Against anyone who doesn't fit in | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
the stereotypes of what a man or a woman should look like. Do you | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
accept transgender people as equal, do they deserve full protection | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
against discrimination at work in college, in housing, all of these | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
different areas? Discrimination and bullying should never be tolerated. | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
But we're not talking about that. We are talking about a fundamental, | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
since right to bodily privacy. We are talking about millions of people | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
who understandably don't feel comfortable... Really, really, was | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
it really a problem in North Carolina before they pass the bill, | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
where millions of men and women around America thinking, my | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
goodness, my life is ruined because my right to bodily privacy is being | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
undermined by transgender people using my bathroom? I'm not saying | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
that. I'm saying that opening bathrooms and locker rooms to | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
whoever wants to come in. Somebody can come in and say I identify as | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
such therefore I can go in. That opens the door to those who would | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
abuse those laws to gain access to the people inside for bad reasons. | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
As a woman, if a man enters the locker room I can get the manager, I | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
can say, you don't belong here. Now, if we open our locker room and rest | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
rooms I cannot say anything until something actually happens to me. We | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
need to leave it. This is not about transgender people, this is about | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
the rights of everybody. Thank you. Well, if you are someone | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
who likes trans rights, you may also like the art and music | :34:01. | :34:02. | |
of the late David Bowie. Which brings us to a rare chance | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
to hear from someone who was a muse Lindsay Kemp is actually one | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
of the most extraordinary performers It wasn't just Bowie | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
he was close to, he also taught Now 78, he's the last | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
of the bohemians, equally at home performing mime in a striptease club | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
or dancing for his many Kemp lives in Italy and he hasn't | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
returned to the UK for 15 years. But he's back, to teach | :34:25. | :34:36. | |
a class at Rada in London. And to talk sex, 'Strictly' - | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
and Morris dancing - You see, I never walked | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
in the streets, I always danced. I found dancing much more | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
pleasurable than walking. because I didn't march, | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
I danced. I was doing a little | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
show of the tiny theatre -- I was doing a little | :34:57. | :35:14. | |
show at a tiny theatre David Bowie was in the audience one | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
night as a 19-year-old boy. He came to my dressing room | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
and he was like the Archangel the Archangel Gabriel standing | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
there, I was, like, you know, Mary, He expressed the desire to work | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
with me, to learn from me, and at the time I was teaching dance | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
classes at the Dance Centre in Covent Garden, so he enrolled | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
the following day. # Poor Harlequin you're quite | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
an exception # A troubadour | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
on a downer #. Kemp and Bowie became lovers | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
and toured Kemp's production of The Pierot In Turquoise, | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
which was later adapted for TV. He told me he met me just in time, | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
because he was on his He had been studying Buddhism quite | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
seriously and was considering taking He did declare later on, | :36:14. | :36:21. | |
Lindsay, save me from And quitting the business, | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
was that... And quitting the business, yeah, | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
he wasn't getting anywhere, he was certainly multifaceted, | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
a chameleon, a splendid, shining, always inspired creature, | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
a genius of a creature. # There's a star man | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
waiting in the sky # He'd like to come | :36:39. | :36:52. | |
and meet us # But he thinks he'd | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
blow our minds #. Kemp collaborated with Bowie | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
on the stage show of Ziggy Stardust, which was the making | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
of the singer, though by then their | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
relationship had ended. My best friend, needless to say, | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
you know, just like in the mags. I foolishly, and rather | :37:12. | :37:32. | |
theatrically, and not too seriously, attempted to cut my | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
wrists, you know. I was taken to the hospital, | :37:38. | :37:38. | |
the doctor looked at them, Oops. | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
and sent me back and said, Bad luck. | :37:43. | :37:58. | |
than me, she was revived # And she can't stop | :37:59. | :38:13. | |
till them shoes fall off # These shoes do, | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
a kind of voodoo #. Another willing pupil of Kemp's | :38:16. | :38:17. | |
was Kate Bush, though at first Modest, she was, she was always | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
at the back and I was forever having But once she started moving, | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
and improvising, she was dynamic. One evening, returning to my house | :38:28. | :38:36. | |
in Battersea, there was a record shoved under | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
the door, The Kick Inside, and on the record there was the song | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
Moving, which she wrote, His proteges have gone on to great | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
things, but Kemp is happy just to be on stage performing mime or dance, | :38:49. | :39:11. | |
whether it is at Rada this week, the billing "Lindsay Kemp | :39:12. | :39:21. | |
Mimes His Own Business". I worked in some of those striptease | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
clubs. Oh, well, it was a joy, | :39:26. | :39:27. | |
I liked it. For me it is all part | :39:28. | :39:35. | |
of my world of entertainment, It looked good, it smelt good, | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
and it was just full The tea rooms, I believe, | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
are still there. the money to enjoy, eclairs, | :39:47. | :39:58. | |
their delicious eclairs, I would treat myself to them | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
from time to time. Are you aware of the phenomena | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
of Strictly, over in Italy? because there was a lull | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
after the demise of Morris Where do you stand on Morris | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
dancing? That famous phrase, I'll try | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
anything except Morris Well, I don't think | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
I've tried incest yet, Nick Watt on. -- Nick Watt is here. | :40:23. | :40:53. | |
Cameron rejects TV debate on Europe is the Daily Telegraph headline, | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
what do we know about this? The government wants to avoid a row with | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
the BBC but there are still some ups and downs. We've heard Downing | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
Street has agreed the first series of elections the referendum debate. | :41:06. | :41:13. | |
With the BBC discussions are ongoing. That is because Downing | :41:14. | :41:24. | |
Street are worried about the mention of Wembley Arena. They think it | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
might be like what happened in Glasgow, where it was a bit hostile | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
in the Better Together Campaign. But a major row has broken out on the | :41:36. | :41:43. | |
ITV debates. They are saying that Nigel Farage is not part of the | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
official campaign, why you not inviting us. It looks like the | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
government is trying to choose its own opposition and we will sue ITV, | :41:52. | :41:52. | |
they are saying. Thanks very much. That's all we have time | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
for tonight; it's James O'Brien Probably with more on the BBC White | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
Paper. A largely dry and cool weekend to | :42:01. | :42:16. | |
come. A few showers | :42:17. | :42:17. |