21/06/2016 Newsnight

Well, the great debate is finished and we had it all. Blue on blue, red

on red, mayor on mayor. We are in the Wembley spin room with everybody

declaring victory, trying to work out who has won an advantage in the

EU endgame. They began by telling us

they were going to have a positive and patriotic case, and they are

back to Project Fear within moments. You might start off with platitudes,

saying how wonderful immigration is. But your campaign hasn't

been Project Fear, it's been Project Hate as far

as immigration is concerned. From big stadium events

to the most intimate. Hello, I am from vote Leave. I will

be voting Leave. Great. All the people from Europe are taking our

jobs. vote is chased down in the last

hours of this tightest With just a day to go,

we've banished the politicians, in favour of some of our most

thoughtful public figures each of whom has passionate views

on the EU: Howard Jacobson and Jack Monroe, Dreda Say Mitchell,

and the historian Robert Tombs - they'll be discussing what this

referendum, and the conduct of it, And we hear from Turkey,

whose ambitions to join the EU have been used by those

who want to Brexit as a stick to hit the Remainers

with, and in the debate President Erdogan's chief advisor

is here to hit back. Good evening from the spin

room at Wembley Arena. The last big debate of this fraught

referendum campaign has finished. And do these kind of debates

really influence people Whatever the case, in such a tight

campaign, on such a momentous issue, Joining me in a moment we'll explore

the arguments made tonight with representatives from both

sides, but first here's David Grossman with the key

moments from the debate. Wembley Arena is where

you can often see veteran Wembley Arena is where you can often

see veteran bands who are, shall we say, not in their first

bloom The audiences come to hear

their greatest hits, That, too, is the job

of tonight's politicians. Veterans of this

long, long campaign. It is quite simply too close

to polling day for them to Instead we've heard some

very familiar numbers We are stronger, safer

and better off in Europe. After the opening statements

there were questions from the 6000 strong

audience, picked to be half If we leave the EU, will this be

the beginning of a slippery slope towards weaker employment and social

rights in the UK? Thank you very much

for your question. And the truth is, UK governments

have led the way in providing good rights for workers,

even before the European Union came It's been governments

of all parties that have created minimum wage legislation,

now a national living wage, shared parental leave, childfree tax care,

tax free childcare and it is this country that is protecting

worker's rights. We do not need an unelected,

bureaucratic, European leaders who none of us can even name,

let alone who any of us voted for, to tell us what our

workers' rights should be. We hear a lot about holidays,

but when the working time directive came in,

two million people in Britain got Mainly women and

mainly young people. Do you trust them, can they promise

us today because I've heard a lot from some of these leading

light in the Leave campaign and what they plan to do with

employment rights. Can you promise us today that

you will protect each and every We already have that,

replied Boris Johnson. From the economy, the question

moved on to immigration. My family and I have had first-hand

experience How would it manage

if we left the EU, given the UK's inability to train and retain

sufficient doctors and nurses? I think the first thing we should do

tonight in a discussion about immigration is celebrate

immigrants and immigration and Because my family, my family has

benefited massively from immigration, and so I know have

millions of people watching tonight. The crucial thing is to

look in an informed way Look at the numbers,

look at the pressure that is large-scale, uncontrolled

immigration is causing You don't fund schools and hospitals

and you don't control And that is what leaving

the EU would do. The final part of the debate

was on sovereignty, Britain's relationship with

the European Union. If we vote to remain

on Thursday, how can we be sure in another 40 years, we won't find

ourselves in a United Britain is a sovereign,

independent country We retain control over our defence,

over the pound, over interest rates, what we do

in our schools, hospitals and public I just don't accept there

is a trade-off between trade and I think democracy is

enormously important. And finally by sort

of an encore, the closing I know that the EU isn't perfect,

but the benefits far And the Britain I know,

the Britain that I love works with its friends

and neighbours. They say we have no choice,

but to bow down to Brussels. We say, they are woefully

underestimating this country and With perhaps the strangest

one night only gig in Wembley Arena's long history now

over, we are now just hours away from polling day and we will find

out which of these Joining me now is our political

editor Nick Watt, Nick - Is it possible to say if there were

winners and losers? This room is buzzing with talk of Ruth Davidson

who emerged from something of an unknown star to many here. In

personal terms it was a pretty standout performance from the leader

of the Scottish Conservatives. I was speaking to her friend this

afternoon, who said she could not wait to get stuck into Boris

Johnson, and boy, did she. It is important to say she had a head

start, she didn't live through the Scottish referendum and was on the

winning side, so has lots of practice in these sorts of debates.

At their use or somebody who doesn't really sound like a conservative,

and the Remain side thinks she connects. They put them on the panel

because they believe this referendum will be won or lost in the Labour

heartlands and that was the message that they needed to get out to mind.

But it is important to say I think this debate basically told us where

this referendum is. It was symbolic of that. It's pretty evenly matched.

Whilst everyone is excited about Ruth Davidson, the vote leave camp

believe they did well in getting their fundamental message, take back

control. Journalists may sneer, every sentence ended with take back

control. But they are saying on these three core messages,

immigration, the economy and Britain's relationship with the EU,

people are hearing from vote Leave, vote for us and you take back

control so they are quite pleased. You have a sense of the choreography

of what might happen after the polls close? There is great excitement

among the vote Leave camp, spinning like mad in the room behind us. What

I understand is the moment the polls close the tone amongst vote Leave

Tories will completely change. A letter will be published, signed by

most of those Tory Brexit supporters saying the Prime Minister should

stay on regardless of the result. If all the Tory vote Leave supporters

do not sign a letter calling for him to go then he will not go. What will

be interesting is that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove will have the sort

of low-key response in the initial hours but when the result is

declared in Manchester, the first voice you will hear from vote Leave

will be the Labour chair of that campaign. She will make either a

victory or a concession speech. Then you will not hear from Boris Johnson

and Michael Gove until the Prime Minister has responded. And if the

Prime Minister has lost this referendum, they will wait to hear

what he says. There is a clear message coming out, the Prime

Minister would have two except the vote Leave demand that the Prime

Minister delays triggering article 50, that is the mechanism to take

the UK out of the EU. One person said if the Prime Minister carries

on with his plan to trigger that straightaway he would be thrown into

the river, and you may well see some of these people leaving the Cabinet.

Bit of a debate in vote Leave, some are saying we've got to have our

mandate introduced, out of the EU, out of the single market. Others are

saying maybe you could negotiate any easier association status. The

mechanics are fascinating. Well arguably what happens

here in the spin room is just as important as what happened

earlier in the arena across the road - it's here where spin doctors

and politicians try to bend the ears of journalists to convince them

that their side won the day. Joining me now is the Energy

Secretary and Remain Nice of you to come in. There was

some thought a big gaping hole where the Prime Minister should have been?

I didn't quite understand that comment. I was here at the debate

and what I heard was emptiness from the vote Leave campaign, I heard no

plan. Two days before this momentous decision and they were pressed

relentlessly on what their plan was and we heard absolutely nothing.

What was interesting, those from the vote remain side were very positive

in their selling of the immigration message, and very passionate about

it. It was something we hadn't heard. We'd heard a slightly

apologetic line on immigration, targets missed, certainly from the

Conservatives in the race so far. I think they were much rancour about

immigration than the Leave campaign. They did say they know it is

accommodated business but they rightly talked about the huge

benefits we get from immigration as well. What I thought was a really

revealing moment. Should it have come earlier? To be able to stand

there and say don't knock immigration, it is doing great

things. That is part of what we have been saying all along. When the vote

Leave campaign were challenged on immigration there was a slight pause

and shock, because they have been saying one thing to one group and

another to another group. Some immigrants think their communities

are going to grow, something they will get less, and that was revealed

when they couldn't give a number and couldn't even say whether it would

go up or down. This whole emphasis they have put on immigration is like

the rest of their plan, there is no thought about how to deliver its.

Some would say you've had the same problem when it comes to Turkey,

sending out to messages. We've heard the Chancellor, David Cameron say

it's not going to happen, it's simply not on the cards, not in my

lifetime. We heard the chief adviser to the Turkish president say he was

flabbergasted that Turkey will not be joining you, he said he thought

Cameron was their chief supporter of membership. We almost this is a red

herring, something that has been ruthlessly used. Are Turkey wrong?

Bien Karo website says Turkey is in plans to join the EU. We have always

said it will be 34 different chapters and on the current rate it

could be by the end of the next century. You haven't managed to shut

this down. We have to look at it and be clear what the Leave campaign are

doing. As Sadiq Khan show, they've been sending out misleading leaflets

talking about Turkey, mentioning only a number of countries, Turkey,

Iraq, Iran. Sadiq Khan was right when he said they have elements in

their campaign which is Project eight and they need to be much more

careful about that. You have been accused of project fear. I wonder

whether you go back over falling house prices, tax rises, emergency

austerity budget, these prophecies of doom. You could have chosen away

which was the sunlit uplands. You could have had making the campaign

nicer place. I think it's absolutely right to talk about the benefits we

have in the European Union which we have been doing. I was very pleased

to hear Sadiq Khan mention climate change for the first time. The fact

is on Thursday this decision is huge and the impact on the economy and to

people's everyday lives, to their families, to the jobs, Frances

O'Grady made that point very clearly. The Leave campaign are

reckless with people's jobs. It is irresponsible and it's a leap into

the dark. Thank you very much Well on Newsnight, we usually

like to have people from both sides debating each other but due

to a strict edict from No.10 barring 'blue on blue' discussions that has

held to the very end of this campaign, we'll dismiss Amber Rudd

now to be joined by her fellow Conservative minister and Leave

campaigner Dominic Raab. What about this project hates,

project fear becoming Project hate? I think they have doubled down on

the scaremongering and the negativity. The standout thing for

me, was Sadiq Khan, telling us how scared he is. On the contract

inside, Boris Johnson saying Thursday's Independence Day, the

optimistic message and the confidence that we want people to

turn out and vote. What happened to the 350 million figure, I didn't

hear that at all to night? I think it slipped in in various areas. I

use it all the time, I can understand why people think 350

million is a gross figure. When you get paid your salary by the BBC, I

shudder to think how big it is. There was no mention of 350. I

wonder if there is a quiet acknowledgement you overplayed your

hand on that number and it has been ditched. There was a lot of talk

about taking back control. The annual dividend. Taking back control

is not the same as 350 being pulled out as a lie at times. 350 million

is our gross contribution to the EU. There is no doubt about that. If

they are so confident about it, why have we started getting different

figures in the last week. Why did we not hear it at all to night if you

are so confident? We have always talked about the gross and net. Once

we leave the EU, we get annually ten billion. The reason why those

figures are important, one is the amount we sent to Brussels and don't

see back. The other is the amount of descent to Brussels and they spend

on our behalf. We want it all back. You need people to explain the

difference between the net and the game. I think they have got it by

now. They need an expert voice. When you get your pay cheque every month,

you have your salary and then your take-home. I will ask you a

different thing, your campaign has, in the words of Michael Gove,

ditched the words of experts? We have had economists, Michael

Burridge has done important work on white freed up from the EU... You

are still an expert fan? A lot of people on your side saying, we are

done with experts, we don't believe them. I don't think lining up the

establishment and saying we have a roll call of experts on our side. We

can point to Sir Richard Dearlove, point to heads of the

counterterrorism branch at the net police who are on our side. We have

Sir Michael Rose, but that is not what people call about, a roll call

of names, it is about the evidence. It is the passion and the optimism

and what came out of this debate tonight, it is clearly on the side

of Leave. As you can see, there is still a few hurdles going on beehive

to me. This is when some of the politicians who were not in the

debate, they come and talk us through what they thing happened.

There is the pitter patter of tiny deadlines being written. Who knows,

at this stage, there are that many undecided minds in this country. If

there are, it is all to play for. We have two days.

Well, one of the biggest issues of the referendum campaign has been

It was raised as an issue in the BBC debate tonight.

Those who want to Brexit have brandished possible Turkish

membership of the EU as a reason to leave,

with claims that millions of Turks could migrate to the UK,

putting strains on communities and public services.

Those who want Remain have been at pains to stress that there is NO

chance of Turkey joining the EU in the near future.

David Cameron himself has said they won't join until the year 3000.

Earlier I spoke to Ilnur Cevik, the chief advisor

I began by asking him what he made of that claim by the Prime Minister.

We thought that Mr Cameron was our chief supporter for our quest

Turks felt the British were the driving force

behind our EU membership and that they were supporting

But the way Mr Cameron put it, he didn't believe anything,

apparently, in our full membership and he was only deceiving us.

While, the others at least were very frank, they said we don't want

The Germans said we will offer you another kind of partnership.

But the way Mr Cameron put it, we feel really, really taken in.

Because the way he's putting it, he says, they were never going to go

in anyway and we just said we will go along with them.

That kind of attitude really is deeply hurting the Turks.

What do you think of David Cameron's position now, having said he wanted

you in and now having said he sees little prospect of it?

As I said, we still feel he was taking us for a ride.

This kind of attitude is very, very insincere.

We felt that when we needed him, he was going to be there.

But now we feel that he was just saying, let me toy around with them,

But let's not be the bad guys to tell them they won't get in.

Do you believe in the David Cameron that wants you to join,

or do you believe in the David Cameron that

doesn't want you to join, which is it?

Well, to be frank, the way he's putting it, we don't think

The Leave campaign says that countries should be able

to control their borders, because mass migration puts a huge

strain on social services, health services, education services,

Britain is already controlling its borders.

Britain's borders are not uncontrollable.

There is a Visa restriction for Turks in Britain.

Even if the European Union lifted Turkey's Visa restrictions

through the Schengen agreement, still there is a British Visa,

so how can Turks enter Britain while the current Visa

The Leave campaign say one of their arguments

against Turkey joining, is because your crime rate is very

high, your level of gun ownership is very high and they say,

why should we give Turkey access to Britain in those circumstances?

Secondly, there's no extraordinary situation in this country

that we would export anything to Britain.

But, besides that, who's going to come to Britain?

Whatever exists in Britain, also exists in Turkey.

We're not going to go there just because you produce Cadbury's

chocolate and Maltesers, for god's sake.

Do you think Britain should leave the EU?

That's a choice for the British people.

If they want to leave the European Union, they should.

But they should not use us as an alibi.

They should really deal with the nitty-gritty on why

they should be leaving and they should not use us

Mr Cevik, thank you very much indeed.

Now, we bring you the antidote to tonight's stadium debate -

the decisions made quietly by people talking amongst themselves

in their own homes, discussing the issues in the pub

Katie Razzall has been listening, and watching, as campaigners

doggedly follow after every vote in a referendum which looks like

With two days to go, we set up in one of London's Royal horrors to try

to ascertain what is driving decision-making in the EU vote. You

can make a lot of new friends with some garden furniture, a bit of

linen, posters and a selfie stick. Because of him. You don't like David

Cameron? Which one do you prefer? That one. Which one do you want to

pick? Will you hold that? The question is straightforward, it

should we be in or out of the EU. But that question has apparently

split Britain down the middle. Which side do you trust? That is what we

as the people of Kingston upon Thames. How are you making the

decision? Who do you trust? I am an arrogant old man, I do what I want.

My dad did not fight in the war for this. How do you decide what is a

fact and what isn't? You listen carefully to what people are saying

and dismiss most of it. Even people like the governor of the Bank of

England? Well, he is Canadian, isn't he. Barack Obama came in and

expressed an opinion. And they know nothing. So you have been trusting

experts on the Remain side? Yes. If you have 90% plus of experts telling

you it makes sense to stay, then they know what they are talking

about. The polls are so close, every moment counts. We asked people on

both sides to wear a camera today and record the reaction. On the

streets of central London, this Leave campaigner got a mixed

reaction. Hello, are you going to vote? Are you going to vote? No. Why

not? Because we will miss out on so much. What will you miss out on?

Please. Out, great. It isn't easy. I haven't decide. But I think we will

remain in. There are still those whose minds he will not change.

Hello. I am from vote Leave. I have sent my vote by post. Who did you

vote for? The opposite. In this day and age, a little country going on

it's own is not feasible. I think it is better for the younger people.

What about tampon tax? I don't know about that. Do you know which way

you are voting... In north London, an area which should sit firmly in

the Remain, Samp Ovie is still finding people who are voting

Brexit. It looks like this is going to the wire. Do you know which way

you are voting? I can tell you explicitly, out, out, out. Stay out

and wish we had never come in. Have you decided which way you will vote?

Yes. Yes. Are you eligible to vote. Yes. What swayed you in favour of

staying in? It is the power and the money. Can you chat about the

referendum. I am voting out. Do you know which way you are voting? I am

in. The Visa, having to go abroad, the issue of getting new visas. The

uncertainty of people being taxed more. Do you know which way you are

voting in the referendum? Out. Why are you voting out? Hopefully there

will be more jobs for British people and look around you, where we are

standing now, you point to me ten richest people. For weeks and

months, the arguments have raged. At Kingston College, how are these

staff and students making up their minds? Have these people down here

influenced how you will vote? They are like a rough guide to people

making their decision. You take a little bit from everyone. It has

become a popularity contest. If we bowed out, there will be billions of

immigrants every week falling over our borders. If we leave, we will be

in a massive recession. It is scaremongering. It should be a

personal decision. Even though you should pay attention to the

statistics. Have you trusted anyone in this? Not really. I don't really

trust the politicians. And the experts or just the politicians?

They are all much of a muchness, in each other's pockets. If that is the

case, how will you decide? Speak to my dad. You trust him? I trust him.

Back on the street, one person who is out has gone to town. That is the

new EU flag. I made it myself. I don't know anyone who is not voting

out. I will take Nigel back, someone else might want him. Can I keep him.

With that he was off, neither he nor we have too long to wait now for the

outcome of this referendum. So how has the referendum

campaign been for you? Have you been dismayed by the nature

of the argument, or have you relished

the hand-to-hand combat? Project fear, on each side,

claim and counter claim, blunt warnings and intemperate

language, accusations What has the prosecution

of the campaign told us about the public discourse in

Britain and has it unearthed deep-seated divisions and

faultlines in our culture? Here with me, the writers

Howard Jacobson, Jack Monroe, and Dreda Say Mitchell

and the historian Robert Tombs. First let's talk about the conduct

of the campaign. Howard, you heard about scaremongering, what the woman

was saying about scaremongering on both sides, what do you think? I am

exhilarated by the campaign and depressed at the same time, you can

feel both. I very much as a Remainer, and I have been a person

who wanted to leave Europe forever. Every morning I left Europe until I

realised there was going to be a referendum and people were doing

this seriously. It's one thing to play at leaving but people were

serious, so I became a Remainer. Since then I've grown very depressed

by, more than anything else, the charge for people who want to leave

that the Remainers are scaremongering. I have not heard

any. They are saying you are about to take a leap in the dark, that's

frightening, be frightened of the unknown. There is a difference

between being frightened of the unknown and what the Brexiteers are

doing which is saying be frightened of other people. From your point of

view, Robert, as an historian, is there something particularly about

the whole binary nature of a referendum that brings out the

visceral hand-to-hand combat? And also the idea that it's going to be

a simple majority. It could just be 140 people. Let's hope not. What

strikes me about the campaign has been how little the establishment

has been listened to by a very large portion of the electorate. These

masses of people, the people who are supposed to be our leaders, have

been telling us over and over again, this is the way we must vote. It

reminds me of Victorian squires saying to their tenants you have to

vote for me all you will be evicted. And I think there has been a lot of

scaremongering. What about the kind of language, Dreda? For me it has

been a lot of scaremongering on both sides. I think with Remain it has

been more about economic. George Osborne, talk about an own goal,

saying house prices will drop. Most of the young people I know were

jumping in the air saying they might be able to get something. When I

watched what was going on, my perception was, because I did not

see much of Labour being involved, and as a left-wing Labour supporter

I was very disappointed about that. I just saw infighting among one

particular party. To tell you the truth and I've said this publicly, I

turned my television off and I went and try to educate myself via

Reading, talking to other people, and that's how I came to the

decision to actually leave. I was very disturbed by the type of public

campaign I saw on both sides. Jack, how has the campaign been for you?

What do you make of it? It's been insidious, xenophobic, terrifying.

It's been a lot of very noisy rhetoric from the same faces from

the same establishment figures. I would challenge claim that the

public are not listening to the establishment, I would say the

establishment are not listening to the public, and I do not see my

views represented anywhere, the views of my father, many of my

friends. I feel we've got the same bevy of people telling us what's

best for us and nobody is asking us. It is a very binary debate and it

does get heated. But it is the lies, dammed lies and statistics that have

really got me, how are people supposed to know how to vote when so

many people are distorting so many facts? I think what has happened, if

you go outside of London it is a very different picture. I live

outside of London! What has come to the surface for me is the divisions

among class. When you talk to a lot of working-class people they are

saying that they will vote for leave. What was interesting with the

referendum debate at Wembley was Frances O'Grady was saying I am

standing for workers, she is on the Remain side. A lot of the workers

are saying, you are not actually standing for us. The problem has

been that the Labour Party has been too much in the shadows. One of the

issues for the future is, where are working-class people going to vote?

When you've got the project fear followed by what Sadiq Khan said

today, calling it project hate, you've got the kind of language, is

it the language of the social media page? In this country we have a

proud tradition of vehemence debate. We are sarcastic, we love being rude

to one another. In the 19th century people used to watch pantomime

because they loved the violence. We've got great cartoonists. All

this is within our great tradition. What is different and I would not

put this down to our national character and not down to the effect

of social media is this assumption that everybody who doesn't think

what you think is a moron. And not only is he a moron, he's a liar.

This idea, the trouble with a binary debate, it's exactly in the spirit,

in or out. Whereas we all know that all the interesting things are

between those two funds, but we've got no opportunity here to do

anything but say in and out. Encouraged by the social media, we

now suppose that everybody who doesn't think what we think deserves

to die, really. Is this actually a reflection of a solid democracy?

Well I think it's going to leave rather a political hangover. It's

shown that there are divisions that we always knew were there, social

divisions, generational divisions, regional. But they have proved to be

rather deeper than we thought. It has shown a huge amount of distrust.

What worries me, whatever the result, people will be looking for

things to go wrong afterwards. And by the very nature of how the result

is counted, we are going to know geographically, demographically, how

this is panning out, and where the divisions like. And I think that is

an important thing to know. I think for too long when we talk about

politics it very much has been centred on London and the South and

Westminster. I think it was even interesting with Newsnight's

analysis of the debate just now, we were talking very much to

politicians. I thought to myself, why has there been no discussion?

Couldn't they have had a satellite in another part of the country

talking to people outside London? We have been doing that all last week,

we had a referendum truck around the country. For that particular debate

because it is such a key debate, it would have been an interesting

perspective to have. I think it is a good example of what we are not

doing sometimes. Jack, are you concerned that some of the divisions

this has exposed will remain? They will not be papered over on Friday?

Absolutely. And I think it will highlight what different people's

concerns are in a way that we probably don't have that information

at the moment. Because our politics seems so focused in the wrong

groups, in the wrong places. There are large swathes of people who feel

not represented, and that's how we have people like Nigel Farage, Trump

over in the States. That's how we have these blustering obsessively

nasty politicians getting their armies of people to listen to them

because they are people who feel like they are not being represented.

We've got a working-class revolution going on but they all seem to be

going in a rather dangerous direction. I think in a way the EU

provides an extra layer of a problem. All over the western world

and in the democratic world people are feeling unrepresented by

politicians. Then you have in the EU another layer which separates people

from politicians, where decisions are being made quite outside the

accountability and indeed the knowledge of the voters and that is

a big problem. How do you feel about the House of Lords, then? That's

another debate. How do you make your peace with your friends who take a

different view? My friends don't take a different view! They are very

quickly persuaded of the rightness of my point of view. And I don't

have any friends who say "I want my country back". I have a great deal

of sympathy for people who live in areas where they don't hear their

own language spoken. I'd think we should talk about racists the way we

do. Nonetheless, to hear people saying "I want my country back",

that's terrifying. It wasn't so long ago when we saw what people saying

that led to. This country has not been taken over, we are not

occupied, we have a distinct, vibrant country. We are ourselves,

we have nothing to fear about being taken over, it is a wicked language

and terrifying. If you are on the side of Leave and you end up being

lumped in with people who say "I want to take my country back". I

want the democracy back. But how does it sit with you, do you believe

that? What I believe is that democracy in Europe is under a lot

of pressure and the EU, which is what we are supposed to be talking

about, is making it worse and aggravating the situation. It has

really reached us yet and you could say this is not our problem, but if

you look around Europe there is a rise of populist parties of right

and left. I think Europe is heading for some sort of political crisis.

Dreda, you are in a position with some bedfellows you wouldn't

normally want as bedfellows, how comfortable do you feel about that?

To me it has never been the issue, the issue around the EU has never

been about the left and right debate, it goes right across the

parties. I think I'm in the tradition of the Labour Party from

the 1970s and 1980s with the big slogan get Britain out. That's where

I think I'm sitting. It's not a debate about personalities, it's

about the issues. Thank you all very much indeed. Vote well but just vote

once. That's all we have time for. Evan is back tomorrow for the last

day of the user what. Good night. Most of us go into the night drive

but by the morning rain again across parts of South West England through

towards the Midlands. From there towards Yorkshire and the Humber

where we could