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Day two of Brexit Britain - how are you feeling? | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
We're live in Westminster for a Newsnight Special, | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
as Britain and Europe start working out how exactly this conscious | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
uncoupling will proceed, and what Brexit actually means. | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
When will the British government formally declare its | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
And what sort of relationship does it want with the EU in future? | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
And they are getting increasingly impatient. | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
From the Conservative shires to Labour's Northern heartlands, | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
they voted out but who are the Brexiteers and what do they want? | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
Boston in Lincolnshire voted 80-20 to leave the EU. | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Lambeth in London voted 80-20 to remain in the EU. | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
How did we get such a divided country and what is going | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
We voted to leave the EU yesterday, so should we get a move on? | :00:56. | :01:08. | |
Or should we take a bit of time to pause and think? | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
The British Commissioner in Brussels, one of the most senior | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
figures there, Lord Hill, he's got a move on by resigning. | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
But British policy is to slow things down. | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
We need a new Prime Minister, for a start. | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
Even the official Leave campaign, so keen to get us out, wants time. | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
But many European counterparts want things to get going, | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
thinking we've voted out, so go now, go, walk out the door... | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
But can they force us to rush things? | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
It all comes back to the magic of Article 50. | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Our political editor Nick Watt is with me. | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
A little refresher on article 50. That is the formal mechanism in the | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
Lisbon Treaty that allows a member state to leave the European Union. | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
Throughout the referendum, Vote Leave said the initiative lies with | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
the member state to trigger it and David Cameron has said he's not | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
going to do it, he will leave it to his successor as Prime Minister so | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
that means the earliest it could be triggered by the UK will be October. | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
The European Council has issued a statement about which backed that up | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
at one level, saying it is the initiative of the member state to | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
trigger it but it then says, get a move on. You have some intelligence | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
on what some of the member states are telling us about this. It's | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
pretty clear Angela Merkel is sympathetic to the slight pause but | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
what I'm hearing is that member states are saying to Britain, it | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
needs to be triggered by the end of the year and the reason for that is | :02:39. | :02:48. | |
they want the negotiations concluded by the end of 2018 because in 2019, | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
the leadership of all the European institutions changes so they need to | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
turn their mind to that. But there is a second thing and to understand | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
this, perhaps we should look at the wording of article 50. The second | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
sentence of article 50,000:. -- 50 said. The key word is "Shall". Vote | :03:04. | :03:13. | |
Leave says that means we will decide whether to do it but what we are | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
hearing from some member states is that it implies in law and | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
obligation, and obligation to notify and if you don't notify, then | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
perhaps you could be in breach of Article 50 and we might give you a | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
prod. So they might try to invoke or initiated themselves. Why does it | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
matter quite as much as everyone thinks it does that we try to delay | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
or slow down the Article 50 business? The reason why Vote Leave | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
is like to delay is because once you have invoked it, you have very few | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
cards to play. Because what would happen when you do that is that the | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
remaining 27 member states amongst themselves, without the UK, would | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
agree what is called a negotiating mandate. They would probably hand | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
that to the European Commission to negotiate with us. That then has to | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
be agreed within two years and you can only extend it if every member | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
state agrees to do so. If it doesn't happen, the guillotine comes down | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
after two years. And you leave on the most neutral terms which may not | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
be the most favourable. Thank you for joining us. | :04:20. | :04:21. | |
Well a key requirement of sorting out the separation arrangements | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
is that we know what relationship we want instead, | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
but also that Europe knows what it wants our relationship to be. | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
On that latter point, our diplomatic editor Mark Urban | :04:30. | :04:31. | |
It's just that many people can't work out in exactly which direction. | :04:32. | :04:49. | |
And in a city renowned for its addiction to waffle, | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
even the best minds are grappling with new realities, | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
like how on earth Article 50 will work. | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
is also the expert's guide to Article 50, | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
It is obviously drafted to give the EU a negotiating advantage. | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
If no agreement is made in those two years, then | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
It can only be extended by unanimous agreement | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
So there is a big disadvantage to the leaving country | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
the resignation of Britain's top EU official today. | :05:28. | :05:36. | |
He felt the referendum result had made his position untenable. | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
as the decision in the British referendum takes place, | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
actions have consequences, and I think that it's not possible | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
You have to listen to the will of the British people | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
The process of agreeing a common European response got under way | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
with the foreign ministers of the six founding EU states | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
On Monday, Donald Tusk, who chairs the union's Council, | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
will go first to Paris for talks with Francois Hollande, | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
and then to Berlin to see Chancellor Merkel. | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
He will try to forge a common approach for a European summit | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
in Brussels on Tuesday, where David Cameron will be present | :06:21. | :06:22. | |
to give the British view of the way ahead. | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
And then on Wednesday, he'll be left out | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
of the discussion as the other 27 seek their way forward. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Today's Berlin meeting urged a Brexit as quickly as possible. | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
But the Germans are also saying that there can be some time before | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
the leaving process formally starts, and that the UK does have choices | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
We will deal with all the countries in an equal way. | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
It means there should be no revenge, no punishing. | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
And it means with solutions like the Norwegian solution, | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
you have to fulfil the obligation, as everyone else. | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
The question is, how long will it take to negotiate | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
My intuition, for what it's worth, is that it might take much longer | :07:17. | :07:28. | |
than both sides either wish or expect. | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
So to Churchill's bar to consider the new rules, | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
while Wales and Northern Ireland jockeyed for advantage. | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
The EU now wants Britain to say what kind of deal it wants, | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
whether it's willing to play by single market regulations | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
and European leaders want the negotiation | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
I'm joined now by the Ukip MP Douglas Carswell. | :07:55. | :08:03. | |
Good evening. Thank you for joining us. Are you in the camp who want to | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
delay a very long time to invoke article 50 or do you think we should | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
get on with it? We want to get this right, act in good faith and do what | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
is right for ourselves and our neighbours and build the new | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
consensus in the country. That means there's absolutely no need to rush | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
into this. There are two or three things we need to get right first. | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
We need the right people overseeing the process. The old mandarins who | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
got us into this mess can't be trusted, you've got our people like | :08:34. | :08:35. | |
Michael Gove, Chris Grayling and Daniel Hannan overseeing the | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
process. Then we need to informally work out the outline of a deal. But | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
we do that after we invoke Article 50? I mean, we have to get a Prime | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
Minister before we invoke it but you are not suggesting we get the | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
outline of a deal before we invoke it? I think there are important | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
things that need to be discussed before we invoke article 50? What's | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
wrong with invoking it quickly and starting the negotiations? It is a | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
stopwatch and once you press it, you have 24 months. Why rush it? We've | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
waited 40 years to get it right, why give ourselves an artificial | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
deadline? It is a deadline, we were told before the referendum it was | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
going to be dead easy, there's not going to be a problem negotiating | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
because they want to do it. I think it is fairly straightforward and the | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
noises from Angela Merkel were very encouraging but it's important to | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
get this absolutely right. We want to be good friends and neighbours. | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
We should be invoking it by the end of the year. We can't leave them | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
waiting so we can all agree on that? Yes. But the model of what we're | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
going to a mat or what you would like us to a mat, when you think | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
about what that model is, there seems to be some disagreement or | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
differences of opinion amongst the Leave camp over what it should be. | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
Do you think an association agreement, let's call it something | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
half out rather than fully outcome is that acceptable? Leave means | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
leave. No EU institutional court will have jurisdiction. We will | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
decide for ourselves the nature of our relationship but having said | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
that, we are not in the business of closing our borders. For example, we | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
would decide our migration policy. It would be for us to make those | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
decisions. But how we decide it and what those decisions would be for a | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
future government and party. So you would not be one of those who would | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
rule out the single market, for example? Absolutely, we must rule | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
out the single market. We want access to the single market | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
obviously but we must not be part of the single market and subject to the | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
jurisdiction. -- subject to the jurisdiction for a simple reason, | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
there are many businesses you don't sell to the single market so why | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
should they comply with the rules? And free movement, I'm wondering | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
whether you think and interpret the vote of the referendum as a vote | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
that says, free movement absolutely have to go, so anyone who suggested | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
a deal with Europe that maintain free movement... There will be an | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
end to unrestricted free movement. The precise nature of those | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
restrictions is for a future government and future Parliament to | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
decide but it will be weak, Britain who make those decisions. Is there | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
some wriggle room on this because Daniel Hannan was talking about free | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
movement to an extent full stop there will be restrictions on free | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
movement but a future Parliament and British government, like in Austria, | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
will decide the nature of those restrictions. You are a great | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
believer in Parliamentary sovereignty and its imported you. | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
What do MPs do, when they see there is about to come out but they | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
believe, and many of them do, I think would be an option which keeps | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
us in the single market and perhaps even keeps free movement if that is | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
the price of being in the single market. Do MPs have to say that it | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
has been voted against or not? Vote Leave was very clear, we want to | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
leave the single market. If we remain part of it, of course we want | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
access to it but if we remain part of it, that is not leaving. If we | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
remain part of the single market... That is staying. So MPs are not | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
entitled in your view to come to their own view about what the | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
referendum means? Leave must mean leave but when we leave, we want to | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
do it in a way that is constructive. We did not ask the public whether | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
what they wanted the Norway option or the Swiss option or the Turkish | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
option. With respect, no one in Vote Leave ever talked about those, you | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
did but we never talked about the Norway, or Swiss model, Weise wanted | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
a British model in the interest of Britain and we can get that. What is | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
to stop MPs saying that Arrington on, which may not be the same yours | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
-- as yours, that in the single market and out of the EU is | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
consistent with what people want? Political elites don't like people | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
deciding these things and there will always be some in the western | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
instability want to do that but the point of the referendum if it gives | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
a democratic mandate to Vote Leave for change. And the Norway option is | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
not consistent with what we've does voted on in your view? With respect, | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
Vote Leave has never talked about it. Just a quick... Nigel Farage | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
does not have a place in the committee to Vote Leave getting | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
together to think about some of these issues but should he have? | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
Nigel made a conscious choice not to be part of Vote Leave and I think | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
it's only right and fair we take into account the fact that 48% of | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
people in this country voted to remain. We need to find the right | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
and considerate return. Only 37% of people voted for my party at the | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
last general election. --... Only a certain percentage of people. This | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
will be led by... This will be led by Vote Leave's leadership and we | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
have a dumb right to make this happen. Thank you for joining us. | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
Well, it might matter in all of this what the people of Britain want. | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
We have asked them one question in the referendum, about EU | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
membership, but we didn't drill down into the details about what exactly | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
Would people prefer right out, half out or what? | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
We asked Katie Razzall to go and find out. | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Just after 7am, if you are just waking up and joining us, you are | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
waking up to a different country. The UK has voted to leave the EU. | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
It's a new dawn and a time of questions about the people who voted | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
for Brexit and what they actually want. Tremendous news for the | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
industry. Marvellous. In North Tyneside yesterday morning, euphoria | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
at the quayside, in a place where a dozen or so fishing boats still | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
operate. It's a great day for myself, waking up this morning in | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
Great Britain, to see that we have got our independence back. At the | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
North Shields Fish market, these traders of course see the EU as the | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
source of the industry's woes but their votes were about far more. The | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
people have spoken, they just wanted a change, out against the | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
government, the bankers, whatever you want to call it, legislation in | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
Brussels and everything, people have just had enough. The north-east | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
think the Brexit message loud and clear, inequality, the threat from | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
globalisation, alienation from Westminster all played their part. | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
They have misunderstood the working classes. It's OK for them to listen | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
to the banker than all the people in London but the governor should have | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
sat up and is in before now, before it got to the stage. How they move | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
forward, I'm really unsure. The ferry between North and South | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
Shields is a regular commute but these are not regular times. To help | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
this great country succeed, thank you very much. The Prime Minister | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
has resigned. From people who voted in, and there were some, fear about | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
what the future holds. People like me are very scared. It's a huge | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
gamble. You don't know what out there. We need concrete facts, which | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
we are not going to get. But here, even those who voted out did not | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
have clear ideas about the next steps. For England to be England | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
again, to do our own thing, to control our own money. I don't know | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
exactly what was going to happen if we voted out or in. So you decided | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
to take the risk? I thought it was better than sitting there and | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
wishing things would change. At least you are doing something about | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
it. Change is perhaps a big ask in a deprived region which are set so | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
much store by this vote. Remain as Slate central pledges made by Brexit | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
politicians during the campaign are now being rolled back from. On NHS | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
spending and getting immigration down. This former city trader | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
invests in north-east charities. I do feel that there wasn't element of | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
a conflict in this way, that if I'm crude, generally, some rich, white | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
men got sections of the population to go with them on a journey that | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
would not benefit the population, that would benefit the careers of | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
the rich, white men. I think that time will bear me out. So much of | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
England voted out, from the once proud industrial heartlands and | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
places like South Shields, all the way to the Conservative shires. This | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
was a union of voters that has changed the face of Britain. Hello! | :17:14. | :17:22. | |
Welcome to a new era. That is how you are feeling? Positive? Yes, very | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
positive. Feeling happy? I really am, actually. Nice that someone | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
wants to talk to us because our grandchildren don't. They are not | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
happy with you? 250 miles from North Shields, Miles and Juliet McNair are | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
unlikely bedfellows with the Tyneside Brexiteers. Now we are | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
going out, what was it you voted for, what did you want? Above all, | :17:46. | :17:54. | |
to regain our own sovereignty. That was the absolute main and prime | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
reason. Independence, really. What do you want them to negotiate? What | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
are your lines in the sand? Sovereignty as in running our own | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
laws? Absolutely. Control of our borders and immigration? Yes... In a | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
modified form. You might accept the Norwegian model, freedom of movement | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
with an emergency brake? Yes... A basic British sense of tolerance | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
should apply, here. In their Warwickshire constituency, the | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
majority voted out. If they don't bring down immigration, will that be | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
a problem for you as someone who voted out? I think it will because | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
there is that option as well. We are full. It's not a racist thing. We | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
are full. I did not actually vote for immigration, to be honest. That | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
was not my first motivation to vote. I know everyone talks about it but | :18:52. | :18:53. | |
that was not the real reason. As well as dealing with the EU, | :18:54. | :19:05. | |
politics at home is heating up. In the Tory leadership race, | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
the forces are lining up for and against the bookies' | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
favourite, Boris Johnson. For the moment, Boris Johnson | :19:14. | :19:26. | |
appears to have the Conservative Party in his hands. He is no doubt | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
hoping the gods, who have a way of reminding me mortals who is in | :19:33. | :19:42. | |
charge, will be on his side. Amid the continuing fallout from the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
referendum, business at Westminster has all but ground to a halt. Behind | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
the scenes, Tory MPs are calculating whether Boris is unbeatable in the | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
leadership contest which will be under way within a week. The | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
remainder is, as the pro-European Tories call themselves, of meeting | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
to discuss their tactics. Newsnight has realised there is a realisation | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
in the George Osborne camp that he will struggle to gain traction | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
because he is so closely associated with a failed Prime Minister. Shares | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
in the energy and time change Secretary Amber Rudd are one of the | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
few things that are performing well at the moment, but her allies know | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
it will be a tall order to beat Johnson, who is campaigning was seen | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
to have added 2% to Brexit numbers in the referendum. It was not | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
difficult to detect the weary mood in the Remain camp, as the Prime | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
Minister discharged his duties on Armed Forces Day. Some on his side | :20:41. | :20:48. | |
who lament the political forces which ejected him from office say | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
the next leader must be a healer. In my view, a great Prime Minister | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
leading a great and reforming administration, mainstream, | :21:00. | :21:00. | |
conservative one-nation reform has been taken out at the knees by the | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
savagery of this bill is a good earthquake. And in choosing a | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
replacement for David Cameron, we have to pick not just a person, but | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
I think we need to develop a programme that brings the party | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
together but more importantly brings the country together, that speaks | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
not just to the 52 voted to leave the European Union, but the 48 | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
wanted to be part of a forward-looking and global Britain. | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
It is your fault, Jeremy! When are you resigning? It is your fault! | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
Labour is facing its own bout of soul-searching after Jeremy Corbyn's | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
underpowered performance in the referendum campaign. A rather | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
different reception awaited Labour's most senior elected official at the | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
Pride rally, as he said London should fight hard to maintain core | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
aspects of Britain's EU relationship. What is clear from the | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
results on Thursday was that London was the only region in England to | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
vote too Remain in the EU, overwhelmingly so. It is also clear | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
to me that London is a powerhouse for our country. The idea that | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
London would not be around the table is ridiculous. The current and | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
future Prime Minister needs to make sure we have a seat around the | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
table. We have to make sure we are inside the room when it comes to | :22:16. | :22:17. | |
doing a deal with the European Union. The Prime Minister was a | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
spectator today as the Red Arrows marked ardent forces day -- Armed | :22:22. | :22:30. | |
Forces day. He will be an onlooker again shortly. | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
I'm now joined by Conservative MP Robert Halfon. | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
You are sometimes called the minister for blue-collar Tories. How | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
is your party going to reconnect with those blue-collar Tories? | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
Nobody seems to be connecting with them well at the moment. I think we | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
have a major challenge. We need to reconnect with the millions of | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
working class voters who have left the Labour Party, which is a huge | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
challenge for them as well. We need to reconnect with the people who | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
have voted to Remain, the 48%. And we need to reunify the party. In | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
terms of working people, we have started on the road with the | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
national living wage, with apprentices and creating jobs, but | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
we need to do more. We need to deal with poverty, compassionate | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
conservatism at the heart of conservatism. That is a huge | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
challenge. Obviously, this is going to be a debate in the leadership | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
election, but one would have to wonder whether going from one white | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
it to another white Italian is going to cut it. No one has ever said to | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
me how terrible it is that the Prime Minister comes from a poor school. | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
Many would love to send their kids to a posh school if they could | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
afford it. That is not the issue, the issue is whether we are seen as | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
being on the side of working people. And the millions who voted Leave, | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
that we speak for them. A lot of people have said there is an out of | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
touch elite, that is one of the things that has been a refrain of | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
the referendum campaign. You can't honestly say that Boris Johnson will | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
break through that as an Etonian, will he? He is just another one of | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
the same. I wonder whether there should be a fresh face, something | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
different. I accept that there is an anger against the elite. That was | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
behind many of the people who voted to Leave last week, and we have to | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
respond to that as a party. I believe we have started down that | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
road. We have a long way to go. I genuinely don't believe it is back | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
about whether people are posh or what background they come from, it | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
is about how we present ourselves. Are we going to be the party for | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
workers? Is someone struggling to earn a living go to feel we are on | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
their site? That has to be the raison d'etre of the next Tory | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
leader. Why don't you stand? Not in a million years. You would connect | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
with the blue-collar workers. In my deputy chairman job, I have gone | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
around the country, talking about this. I don't want us to have a | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
majority of ten, I want a big majority, and the only way to do | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
that is to reach out to the millions of voters that Labour have lost who | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
voted Leave. Do you think if a new leader comes in with a different | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
programme, a different approach, do you think they need to go to the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
country to seek a mandate at some point before long? And other fixed | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
term rule, it is difficult now to call an election. But you could make | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
it happen. It is difficult. It would be up to the leader to decide. We | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
have to cross one bridge at a time. We have to organise the | :25:38. | :25:39. | |
renegotiations. There has to be an election of a new leader and there | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
has to be a programme to get the Conservatives back with a proper | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
majority by speaking forward to people. Can I ask you whether you | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
think the leadership election needs to take the 14 weeks that seems to | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
be allowed for? Margaret Thatcher retook the Falklands in half that. | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
When Margaret Thatcher was deposed, that was on a Thursday and there was | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
a new Prime Minister by the Tuesday. We are now at an important time in | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
the country's history and we are other less. We can't wait 14 weeks | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
for you guys to decide between Boris and Theresa May. This is an | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
incredibly important question, who is going to be the next Prime | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
Minister? Who will carry on the work that David Cameron started? And | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
don't forget, when Margaret Thatcher was standing, it was only MPs who | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
had the election. We have to go around the country and speak to | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
members, and they will make the final decision. Thank you very much. | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
Now, to finish, the most fraught issue of all - | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
the gulf between inners and outers, the new national divide. | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
It's about class, region, education and outlook. | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
I have to say, there are urban professsionals who voted to Remain | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
who are dealing with Brexit through the five stages grief - | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
As of a moment ago, a petition calling for a rerun | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
of the referendum had received 2.3 million signatures. | :27:05. | :27:06. | |
Can the divided British peoples cohabit comfortably? | :27:07. | :27:08. | |
Emily has been out, trying to make sure we all learn to get on. | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
If there's one thing we learned from the vote on Thursday, | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
it's just how divided the country is. | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
Boston in Lincolnshire voted 80-20 in favour of Leave, | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
So we've brought citizens from each place together. | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
Angie and Nina come from a farming community. | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
James and Gurjinder, the Lambeth boys, are a lawyer | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
and do they understand the choices they each made? | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
When you voted Leave, was it about the EU, | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
was it about kicking the Government, was it about change of any kind, | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
or was it about something I haven't mentioned? | :27:53. | :27:54. | |
We tried to tell everybody what was happening in Boston. | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
People say we're the most segregated town in the country. | :28:01. | :28:10. | |
What happens is, you get your neighbours, | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
and it is full of EU migrant workers. | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
They come over here, they live in houses of multiple occupation. | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
Some of them have been here for five years and can't even | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
I don't doubt in any way that these things are true | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
and that there are these problems in these towns. | :28:35. | :28:36. | |
What I worry about is that the EU has been blamed inaccurately. | :28:37. | :28:47. | |
I think these problems are there, but it isn'y the EU's fault. | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
Why do you think people have misunderstood? | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
I think there has been a lot of either deliberate | :28:54. | :28:55. | |
miscommunication or a very difficult conversation in the UK | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
they just seemed to be shouting at each other or believing their own | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
or believing their own side's truth, and sometimes both sides' truths | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
I for one didn't think it was correct to have | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
350 million to go to the NHS on the back of the battle bus, | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
and since then Nigel Farage has said that was ill-advised | :29:15. | :29:16. | |
But do you think people who voted Leave | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
But do you think people who voted Leave are thick? | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
Do you think that that is how the other side think? | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
Definitely, especially with the barrage of things that have | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
We know 350 million was not going to go directly to the NHS. | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
But where you get your savings is, the doctor who lives near me, | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
he told me they employ three interpreters at 40 quid an hour. | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
We would not have to be paying that through the NHS if we didn't have | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
I think we need to have a national conversation on how to build | :29:48. | :29:57. | |
a fairer Britain, which everyone feels works for them. | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
I just hope it goes straightforward and it sorts itself out. | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
For the younger generation like kiddies, they've been brought | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
up in this environment, so to speak, due to vandalism, | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
I don't want my children seeing all that, | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
Wherever you go right now, people agree on one thing: | :30:21. | :30:30. | |
we are in the midst of a quite exceptional | :30:31. | :30:32. | |
Life carries on - Glastonbury today, Wales winning football games, | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
Pride, Armed Forces Day, but Brexit is always | :30:37. | :30:38. | |
Which is why we've been here on a Saturday night. | :30:39. | :31:01. | |
Rolls-Royce Corniche - one of the best of the very best. | :31:02. | :31:05. |