12/07/2016 Newsnight


12/07/2016

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Yet another extraordinary day in British politics.

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The Labour Party divided, relying on lawyers to help determine

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whether the leader can stand in a leadership election.

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I'm delighted to say that the Labour Party National executive has decided

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that an incumbent is automatically on the ballot paper. CHEERING

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It's alleged that at one point, as the party's

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National Executive Committee deliberated, Mr Corbyn

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was asked to leave the room, and refused to go.

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And the fight in the party saw a brick thrown through the window of

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We'll ask Angela Eagle whether a split is now inevitable.

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As the ceremonial removal van enters Downing Street,

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the Conservatives say farewell to their leader.

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His biggest error was winning the 2015 general election

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because had it still been a coalition, then of course

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the referendum, I suspect, would never have been allowed

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The black Americans who are arming themselves with guns,

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to protect themselves from the police.

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When the Civil War was fought, did the North go to war

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Don't the battlefield need to be even?

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A champion of the radical left, a man who challenges

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conventional politics, for months he fights hard,

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infuriates his opponents and inspires a new band of supporters.

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But finally, he concedes his campaign is not going to get him

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into power, and he offers support to the woman challenging him,

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It was in the US, where Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton.

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For the Labour Party, in contrast, the split

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between the radical left and establishment left leaves

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the party in the grimmest of predicaments.

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We knew there would be a leadership election,

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and now we know Jeremy Corbyn will be on the ballot, after a long

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National Executive Committee meeting this afternoon.

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Our political editor Nick Watt is here.

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It was the mother of all NEC meetings. This is one of the big

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meetings in two moments in Labour's post-war history. Corbyn has lost

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80% of the support of his MPs but he will be on the ballot in the

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leadership contest and what is significant is that the visual

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Labour machinery had some legal advice saying he should be treated

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like any other candidate, but he is automatically on the ballot. When I

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caught up with him, he was delighted.

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Is that a really historic day, Jeremy?

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It's about people, it's about political engagement

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And our campaign is going to be about bringing people

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Members have elected me ten months ago, we now look

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like having another election, that's fine, let's take part in that

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It will be done with respect, it will be done with decency,

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He seemed very happy and perhaps feistier than we've seen him for a

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few months. It is like a life or death struggle for both factions in

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the party. Let's think about the left, why is this issue so

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important? It was make or break for the left, their view is that if

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Jeremy Corbyn was not automatically on the paper they couldn't be sure

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of getting the 51 nominations to get him on. I understand that ten days

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ago, Corbyn was thinking of throwing in the towel but his key allies,

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John O'Donnell and his strategy chief said, don't do that because

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there is nobody is with his appeal and that why Seamus Milne looked

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very happy when I caught up with him.

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Are you being interviewed for Newsnight?

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OK. Not particularly revealing exchanges! OK, the Labour plotters,

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the antique Corbyn people, they lost the big issue, Corbyn is in the

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ballot, but there is more news for them. They say that he is beatable

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because the rules are different. If you are a full-time member, you can

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only vote if you signed up since February. So those who signed up

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since, they can't vote. If you are a so-called edited supporter, you have

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to pay ?23 and there is a brief window in July for you to sign up.

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The idea is to create a different contest last year when you could pay

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just ?3 and sign up on the EE of the ballot. Some Labour Party sources

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close to Jeremy Corbyn say that this sounds like the ballot is being

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rigged, and they want to challenge these very strict rules at the next

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meeting of the NEC. Frankly it is so bitter and unpleasant, the lawyers

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are going over the words in order to get interpretations of the rules.

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One might take the view that they'll be on a point at which a split is

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inevitable. There is a feeling that if Angela Eagle or if it is Owen

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Smith, the unity candidate to take on Corbyn, if they don't defeat him,

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you have a feeling that at the very least you may get a kind of

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unilateral declaration of independence from the Parliamentary

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Labour Party. 176 of the 231 voted against him and they could become

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the official opposition. Whether they can setup a party in the

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country without the support of the trade union movement, that's a

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different one. Thank you for joining us.

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Well, who knows what is going on at the local level?

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My Newsnight colleagues, Jake Morris and Hannah Barnes have

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been ringing around today, to local Labour councillors

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It's not a poll obviously, not scientific, but they've been

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telling us that party membership has gone up

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considerably in the last year, and that there's been a surge

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The majority gave us the impression that they thought the latest

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people to join the party were in the pro-Corbyn camp.

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"If Corbyn's on the ballot, he'll win" said one,

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"and there will be a split in the party.

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I don't see how the PLP can continue," they continued.

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Most striking were the views on the conduct of politics

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One area where the vitriol has descended into the criminal

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is Wallasey on Merseyside, the constituency of Angela Eagle.

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Lewis Goodall went to see what has been going on there today,

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and found echoes of struggles in that area, reported

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You wouldn't know it, but the Wirral on wordy side -- Merseyside is

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ground zero in the battle for the soul of the Labour Party and from

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any old hands in Labour in this part of the world and may be many

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Newsnight viewers, this may feel all too familiar. Newsnight was here in

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Wallasey 25 years ago covering an emboldened local Labour Party who

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were trying to deselect their local Labour MP. Well it's happening all

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over again but this time it isn't a local backbencher who can't

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guarantee the support of their party members, like Angela Eagle, who,

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theoretically at least, could be the Labour delayed -- could be the

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Labour Party leader. Angela Eagle has incest many of her Labour Party

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activists including her constituency chair. She has done some strange

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things recently. For months she has been telling us what she is doing

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and what the party is doing and she has always shown support for Jeremy.

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She says he is doing a good job, when asked about the referendum,

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saying he is running up and down the country like a 25-year-old, but a

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week later he has shown no leadership qualities, what a load of

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rubbish. She would work with any elected leader and get behind him

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for the democratic right of our members. And on that basis, we

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supported her. So now she is contesting and saying that Jeremy

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isn't a good leader and she is contesting that leadership and we

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feel very let down by Angela. Cathy Jo into -- join the party with

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Jeremy Corbyn and less than a year later she is the chair of the CLP,

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numbering 1200. With many of those involved this is part of eight

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strategy, building up in the local party and consolidating across

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Labour nationally. We have a meeting on the 22nd of this month and there

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will be motions debated at a meeting in which there will be a decision

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taken about who gets the CLP support in the leadership contest. Caffeine

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may be new but this man certainly isn't. -- Cathy may be new.

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A quarter of a century ago that Newsnight

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investigation focused on

:10:12.:10:12.

the attempts to deselect Birkenhead MP Frank Field.

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He's back in the party and vice-chair of Wallasey

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There will be a move to punish MPs, I accept that, by some

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I don't think we should punish people.

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I think they should be prepared to take the same route

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they thought was fit for Jeremy Corbyn.

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He faced a vote of no confidence, they said he should

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They then denigrated him for not resigning.

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If an MP gets the vote of no-confidence in their

:10:44.:10:46.

constituency, having said that, they should resign.

:10:47.:10:48.

Today the action against Angela Eagle went beyond

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Sometime this morning a brick was thrown into the window

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The response on Facebook wasn't exactly

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We didn't expect anything where they were going to start

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throwing things through the window, but we did

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which we were working was becoming increasingly hostile.

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My son made sure I had a little alarm thing on

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my keys now because he's worried about me, especially with the

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In the wake of the murder of Jo Cox, many spoke

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of a kind of politics and a new respect for MPs.

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Clearly the author of this e-mail obtained by Newsnight

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sent only today to Angela Eagle's office didn't take it to heart.

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Some members of the local party say a

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culture of intimidation has gripped Labour across the Wirral.

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Councillor Moira MacLachlan is a veteran of the

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On the basis of what's happening at the moment

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and what happened in Birkenhead 30 years ago, almost certainly there

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will be an attempt to get rid of Angela and some

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of the councillors who support her, I would fully expect that to happen.

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In Wallasey the tone of the meetings has been appalling, we've had

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threats of violence, homophobia, arguments between grown men and

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Most recently today we've had an actual act of violence, a brick

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Homophobic comments aimed at Angela Eagle, who

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Homophobic gestures at the mention of Angela's name.

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One lady even threatening to punch somebody.

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What really angers me is that this is a

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blatant contradiction of our own laws, our

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own values as members of

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We should work together in the spirit of

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Some say this is simply robust debate.

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We are being asked to believe that amongst the councillors

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there, the trade union officials there, the people who support Angela

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and the people who don't support Angela, not one person stood up to

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object to intimidation, or worse, to object to homophobia.

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Now I would criticise anyone, anyone who heard

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homophobic comments or saw homophobic gestures at a meeting who

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I couldn't speak about intimidation because I was

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Many would never have thought that the battles of the

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A vote of no-confidence will take place in Angela Eagle's

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One source on the CLP told me the momentum for that motion

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If she's still a candidate to lead, what happens

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then, like much else in the Labour Party right

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Well, with me now is Angela Eagle, the former Shadow Business Secretary

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who is standing against Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership.

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Good evening. Watching that, are you sure you are in the right party with

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those people? I've been a Labour Party member for 40 years. I've

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dedicated my life to the Labour Party and I will stay in the Labour

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Party whatever happens. What my leadership challenge is about is

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saving and reuniting the Labour Party so that it can be an effective

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opposition in Parliament so that we can make our democracy work and I

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hope he'll our country and save it from perpetual Conservative

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dominance. You said a lot in that answer. Firstly, you will stay in

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the Labour Party. There are those who say that it's over and that you

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can't. It is my party, I was born into it. There are people who have

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come back into it recently. You saw and heard from some of them in that

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piece. They were thrown out in the 1990s. They are back in and you can

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see what they are doing. I have to stand up to that kind of bullying

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and I will continue to. If there's a motion of no confidence in you by

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your local party, you heard what the gentleman said, failing the motion

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of no-confidence, get out. Would you stand aside from that seat, what

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will you do if they deselect you? There's no question of me being

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deselected at the moment. What I'm doing is trying to say that the

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Labour Party was created to be the voice of working people in

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Parliament, to make certain that those who create the wealth in our

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country actually get a fair share of the opportunities and the income

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that comes from that well. That is the historic role of the Labour

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Party. To do that you have to be effective in Parliament. I have

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tried to work with Jeremy from nine months. He has lost the confidence

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of his parliamentary colleagues and cannot lead in Parliament. He is

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also failing to lead on the doorstep because he's not communicating or

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connecting with the 9 million people who voted Labour at the last

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election. And we have a duty as Labour Party members of Parliament

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to put that case to him. And I will get to all of that. We saw a brick

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thrown through your constituency office window. Do you think it is

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the Labour Party members of any kind who are responsible for the

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violence, death threats, hate that we've seen? There's a lot of hate,

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there were death threats, I've been told, tonight. There's a lot of

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vitriol. I have to say that my office workers have to work in that

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environment, and you heard from one of them to night. They are just

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trying to do their job. They should not be subjected to this kind of

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approach. It's happening up and down the country. Is it Jeremy Corbyn's

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fold? It is bullying and it should stop, and Jeremy should tell his

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supporters who are orchestrating this on social media to stop. And

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you don't think he's done enough so far? I don't think he's shown

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leadership there, either. You've said the Labour Party is your party,

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but we just have to face the possibility that you are not going

:17:19.:17:21.

to win the leadership election, and Jeremy Corbyn will be there, and

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what is going to be happen... I'm not going to speculate about what

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will happen if I lose. I'm in this leadership election to win it. We

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need to be an effective Labour Party going forward which puts a

:17:38.:17:39.

compelling case to the British people that is an anti-Tory case.

:17:40.:17:44.

There are huge challenges following the Brexit vote, we've got to make

:17:45.:17:48.

certain that the effects of that Brexit vote aren't visited upon

:17:49.:17:51.

communities that have already suffered from Tory cuts and

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austerity. I understand. We've got to be effective. Of course you do. I

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understand. And that is the argument we are having in the party at the

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moment. I understand but let's suppose Theresa May calls the

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general election next break, perfectly possible. I expect there

:18:13.:18:16.

will be. Will you be able to look in the eyes of the public and say, vote

:18:17.:18:21.

for Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister, even everything you've

:18:22.:18:24.

said about him? We are having a leadership election and I have

:18:25.:18:28.

joined in that leadership election to win it. Jeremy has opened up the

:18:29.:18:32.

party to new ideas and changed the direction of the party. He now needs

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to stand aside so other people can take this forward and communicate

:18:37.:18:40.

properly with Labour voters. I would say to the 9 million Labour voters

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out there, there are two days next week when you campaign ?25, help

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save the Labour Party, make our democracy work, and help me here our

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country. Join as a registered supporter. So you are literally

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urging the country to join to get Corbyn out? That is precisely what I

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think should happen. Join us in this battle and let us win the Labour

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Party back for parliamentary democracy. We need people to

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persuade the country and not just protest. ?25 is quite expensive to

:19:11.:19:16.

get the vote. It's a good investment for the whole of democracy. If there

:19:17.:19:21.

was an election next spring or sooner and Jeremy Corbyn was leader,

:19:22.:19:27.

how do you think Labour would do? I think the evidence, unfortunately,

:19:28.:19:31.

is clear. We are 8% behind in the polls now when we should be ahead.

:19:32.:19:37.

We lost seats in the local elections despite all our efforts. We lost a

:19:38.:19:41.

referendum because voters saw the ambiguity that Jeremy had during

:19:42.:19:45.

that referendum and that is going to cause enormous damage. In the

:19:46.:19:52.

marginals we are 14% behind. So we have to do something and we have to

:19:53.:19:57.

do it quickly if we are going to prevent perpetual conservative rule,

:19:58.:20:01.

which will damage our areas and damage the interests of Labour

:20:02.:20:04.

voters. In the campaign so far you have tried to downplay policy

:20:05.:20:08.

differences between you and Jeremy Corbyn, you say it is not a left

:20:09.:20:15.

right thing. Well, I'm on the left. Well people might debate that. I did

:20:16.:20:18.

not walk away when Jeremy was elected, I try to serve until it was

:20:19.:20:23.

impossible to carry on. Why do you think, then, that the party under

:20:24.:20:28.

you, will win, when it will lose so badly under Jeremy Corbyn? Well,

:20:29.:20:32.

look, I think you need a more effective communicator and somebody

:20:33.:20:37.

that reaches out to voters. Jeremy talks to people who don't really

:20:38.:20:41.

believe in Parliamentary democracy. He is a protest, he is not a

:20:42.:20:45.

persuader of people. He has done a good thing by switching the way that

:20:46.:20:49.

the Labour Party works. Now we need something else to take it forward.

:20:50.:20:55.

Owen Smith, another candidate, potentially, we think he will throw

:20:56.:20:59.

his hat into the ring tomorrow or soon thereafter, it's not going to

:21:00.:21:03.

work so well for the Corbyn Challenger as if there are two of

:21:04.:21:07.

you fighting. Will you stand aside if he looks like the stronger of the

:21:08.:21:11.

two of you? I think it's about time we had a woman leader of the Labour

:21:12.:21:16.

Party elected. We now have the Conservatives on the second woman

:21:17.:21:19.

Prime Minister. We are the party of a quality that has always worked in

:21:20.:21:24.

this agenda. It's about time that we had a woman leader. So you won't

:21:25.:21:29.

stand aside? Basically you will have two splits in the party? I don't

:21:30.:21:34.

know whether Owen is going to stand, but I'm willing to have this debate

:21:35.:21:38.

in full view of the party members. We are going to have a contest, I'm

:21:39.:21:43.

looking forward to it. Which is more important to you? Is it more

:21:44.:21:47.

important to you that you become the leader or that Jeremy Corbyn ceases

:21:48.:21:51.

to be the leader? Is it about stopping Corbyn or you leading? Well

:21:52.:21:56.

I think I've got good experience and leadership capabilities to take us

:21:57.:22:00.

forward into this very different and challenging era. And that's the

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debate we are going to be having. But let's be honest, it is about

:22:07.:22:11.

Corbyn, isn't it? I think it's a most impossible for somebody who's

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lost the support of the vast majority of their Parliamentary

:22:15.:22:18.

party to carry on as leader of the Parliamentary party, which is the

:22:19.:22:22.

first part of the job description of the Labour Party. It is in clause

:22:23.:22:27.

one of our Constitution. There was a moment when I wondered whether you

:22:28.:22:36.

would make a pitch to the grief stricken Remainers, the 16 million

:22:37.:22:41.

people who voted, there must be at least 1 million, 2 million. At maybe

:22:42.:22:46.

they are feeling like they were not paid ?25 to vote for you. One of the

:22:47.:22:51.

policy differences between me and Jeremy, on the day after the

:22:52.:22:55.

referendum Jeremy came out and said article 50 should be triggered

:22:56.:22:59.

straightaway. I think that would be a profound mistake. I think we have

:23:00.:23:03.

to be very careful in the way we begin to disentangle from the

:23:04.:23:06.

European Union and we have to do it in a way which is least likely to

:23:07.:23:09.

hurt those communities I'm particularly concerned about, those

:23:10.:23:13.

poorer communities who have already been badly hit by Tory cuts. Some

:23:14.:23:20.

who are more sympathetic to your side of the argument have looked at

:23:21.:23:23.

the results of the NEC and set Corbyn is going to win, this is the

:23:24.:23:27.

death of the Labour Party as we know it. I wonder whether you look at

:23:28.:23:32.

these members who are going to try to get you deselected, confidence

:23:33.:23:36.

motion in you, you look at the violence internally, the vitriol and

:23:37.:23:39.

the debate, and don't you wonder whether the marriage between this

:23:40.:23:42.

radical left and establishment left is over, do you never wonder that? I

:23:43.:23:48.

think it's important that we take the broad base of the Labour Party

:23:49.:23:52.

with us. I don't think that some of the people have joined and the way

:23:53.:23:55.

they are behaving is acceptable behaviour in British politics. It

:23:56.:23:59.

course and is our democracy and it needs to be called out for the

:24:00.:24:03.

bullying it is. I'm standing up to it and everybody else needs to stand

:24:04.:24:07.

up to it. And I think Jeremy Corbyn leads to condemn it and stop it

:24:08.:24:10.

happening. Angela Eagle, thank you very much.

:24:11.:24:12.

The killing of five policeman in Dallas last Thursday,

:24:13.:24:14.

an insane revenge for the killing of black citizens by

:24:15.:24:17.

the police, has left America shocked and divided.

:24:18.:24:19.

And so today, there was an attempt at healing.

:24:20.:24:21.

President Obama and George W Bush attended a memorial

:24:22.:24:23.

service in the city, for the dead policemen.

:24:24.:24:27.

But those of us who love Dallas and call it home have had five

:24:28.:24:34.

We are here to honour the memory and mourn the loss

:24:35.:24:44.

To pray for the wounded and to try and find some meaning

:24:45.:25:04.

You have to go back decades to find a time when the politics of race

:25:05.:25:12.

in the US, were as fraught as they are now.

:25:13.:25:15.

But if you do go back decades, you might remember

:25:16.:25:17.

the Black Panther movement - a party of gun-toting

:25:18.:25:22.

political radicals challenging police brutality.

:25:23.:25:23.

the Black Panther movement - a party of gun-toting

:25:24.:25:28.

political radicals challenging police brutality.

:25:29.:25:29.

Back then, believe it or not, the National Rifle Association

:25:30.:25:31.

The Panthers fizzled out in acrimony and scandal in the seventies,

:25:32.:25:35.

but in its time, the movement inspired more than a few activists.

:25:36.:25:38.

Well, there is a new Black Panther party and a new move among black

:25:39.:25:41.

Americans to carry guns; getting into a kind of arms

:25:42.:25:44.

Gabriel Gatehouse has been in Dallas to talk to some of those involved.

:25:45.:25:50.

My biggest threat is the police department.

:25:51.:26:01.

They are the biggest gang in our country.

:26:02.:26:06.

We are already at war, we already have casualties in war.

:26:07.:26:22.

We're just sitting there and then IMITATES GUNFIRE.

:26:23.:26:26.

They're shooting right now and there's an officer down.

:26:27.:26:28.

It began as a peaceful protest against the killing

:26:29.:26:41.

It ended with Micah Johnson, a black man, shooting five

:26:42.:26:52.

But I also felt hurt because we had to march for those four

:26:53.:26:59.

brothers who had been killed by the police.

:27:00.:27:01.

He say, we saw Alton Sterling being assassinated.

:27:02.:27:05.

Alinca Green was one of the organisers of the protest

:27:06.:27:09.

which marched under the banner, Black Lives Matter.

:27:10.:27:15.

The killer told police he was not affiliated with any organisation,

:27:16.:27:17.

but he has shown an interest in social media in various black

:27:18.:27:20.

I don't know the guy, I don't know the shooter but I can tell you,

:27:21.:27:27.

if you oppress the people for so long, the revolt

:27:28.:27:29.

Can I just be clear, you aren't advocating

:27:30.:27:32.

Not at all, I mean, we aren't advocating shooting

:27:33.:27:37.

We're advocating survival, the survival of our people.

:27:38.:27:43.

Thursday's shooting was the deadliest day for US law

:27:44.:27:49.

It's hard to overstate the effect that has an some sections

:27:50.:27:56.

Here in Dallas, people really are coming together around

:27:57.:27:59.

the police force and it's worth just taking a look at the numbers.

:28:00.:28:02.

26 police officers have been shot dead in the line of duty

:28:03.:28:05.

The number of people killed, shot dead by police officers so far

:28:06.:28:14.

When you dig into the demographics, you find a stark truth and that is,

:28:15.:28:27.

if you are black in America, you are two and a half times more

:28:28.:28:31.

likely to be shot dead by the police than if you are white.

:28:32.:28:34.

A group called the Huey P Newton Gun Club is calling on black

:28:35.:28:49.

Huey P Newton was was one of the founders of the Black Panthers.

:28:50.:28:55.

The gun club is affiliated with the new Black Panther Party

:28:56.:28:57.

which has chapters across the United States.

:28:58.:29:00.

They hold occasional demonstrations in the Dallas area

:29:01.:29:10.

where they parade in public, guns on display,

:29:11.:29:12.

La'Shadion Anthony is affiliated with the gun club.

:29:13.:29:15.

One in the chamber at all times.

:29:16.:29:21.

So that means if I need to, I just aim and squeeze.

:29:22.:29:28.

My biggest threat is the police department, they are the biggest

:29:29.:29:39.

Like the killing of Philando Castile, one of the deaths that

:29:40.:29:42.

sparked the demonstration in Dallas on Thursday,

:29:43.:29:44.

many fatal shootings by police begin as a simple traffic stop,

:29:45.:29:47.

for something as innocuous as a broken tail light.

:29:48.:29:55.

We can't even see past tomorrow because tomorrow is not

:29:56.:29:57.

I can leave here right now and be pulled over for a traffic stop

:29:58.:30:05.

like the young man did, Philando Castile and end up dead

:30:06.:30:07.

In front of your wife and your child.

:30:08.:30:11.

Against this backdrop, Dallas waited for a visit from

:30:12.:30:13.

Among the congregation at Friendship West Baptist Church,

:30:14.:30:22.

many have mixed feelings about Obama's record on standing up

:30:23.:30:24.

Don't put all this on police, you put this on America.

:30:25.:30:30.

Can we hurt for the families of the slain police

:30:31.:30:34.

officers and the families of Alton and Philando?

:30:35.:30:38.

All I'm trying to say, Mr President, if you come to Dallas,

:30:39.:30:42.

you need to come to Baton Rouge, you need to go to Minnesota,

:30:43.:30:45.

you need to go to Staten Island, you need to go down to Prairie View,

:30:46.:30:51.

you need to go to every place with an unnecessary

:30:52.:30:54.

This was a mixed audience including representatives from mothers groups,

:30:55.:31:03.

members of the Nation of Islam and supporters

:31:04.:31:05.

There's a lot of talk here about local democracy,

:31:06.:31:12.

about making the law work for the black community,

:31:13.:31:14.

about building bridges with other communities.

:31:15.:31:18.

But there are also some people here who are re-examining

:31:19.:31:22.

the founding principles of American democracy.

:31:23.:31:26.

There are some, not all, but some in this room who say

:31:27.:31:30.

the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms,

:31:31.:31:34.

written into the Constitution so that Americans could defend

:31:35.:31:37.

themselves from an oppressive government that didn't

:31:38.:31:41.

And here, in the 21st-century, they are taking inspiration from that.

:31:42.:31:47.

The liberal idea that the solution to America's gun violence is gun

:31:48.:31:50.

Guns don't kill people, police with guns kill people.

:31:51.:31:58.

We see this every day in our country.

:31:59.:32:02.

They kill people and they go home without any consequence.

:32:03.:32:04.

But don't police with guns kill people because they are worried

:32:05.:32:07.

That's the rhetoric that they use, the propaganda that they use.

:32:08.:32:13.

But they've been killing us even before guns.

:32:14.:32:15.

They don't even have to have guns to kill us,

:32:16.:32:17.

they killed Eric Garner by choking him to death.

:32:18.:32:20.

The guns are the only sanctuary we have to keep

:32:21.:32:22.

But the implication of what you are saying, it is very

:32:23.:32:31.

scary because if you are saying the only defence you have

:32:32.:32:34.

from your own police is your own weapon, then down that

:32:35.:32:36.

When the Civil War was fought, did the North go to war

:32:37.:32:45.

Doesn't the battlefield needs to be even?

:32:46.:32:50.

We have tried prayer and everything else, we've tried dialogue,

:32:51.:33:00.

I don't want to see it go to war but what do we have left?

:33:01.:33:06.

I'm not advocating this, but it's happening.

:33:07.:33:07.

What is happening to our country where you turn on your TV,

:33:08.:33:15.

within two days, two black men who did nothing

:33:16.:33:18.

There are plenty of people who feel deeply uneasy about the idea

:33:19.:33:26.

that their best protection against their own police

:33:27.:33:28.

But advocates of arming the black community are not

:33:29.:33:35.

And the killing of five officers here last week seems certain

:33:36.:33:40.

to deepen America's already deadly racial divide.

:33:41.:33:48.

David Cameron steps off his Prime Ministerial perch tomorrow,

:33:49.:33:50.

having spent over six years in Downing Street.

:33:51.:33:54.

In terms of length of tenure, he's somewhere in the middle

:33:55.:34:01.

of the league of post-war prime ministers, but let's face it,

:34:02.:34:04.

Among other objectives, he had three: he wanted to hold

:34:05.:34:08.

the Conservative Party together, to stop it banging on about Europe,

:34:09.:34:10.

In the end, he could achieve one of those, in that the party has

:34:11.:34:15.

And even that may not be a secure legacy.

:34:16.:34:19.

Because we will probably not be talking about David Cameron much

:34:20.:34:21.

tomorrow, we asked David Grossman to reflect on his record.

:34:22.:34:27.

David the chameleon burst out into the big wide world.

:34:28.:34:30.

When Labour was first trying to deal with the fresh young

:34:31.:34:33.

challenge from David Cameron, they came up with this,

:34:34.:34:36.

Dave the Chameleon, the ultimate non-conviction politician who led

:34:37.:34:39.

Dave the Chameleon, the ultimate non-conviction politician who let

:34:40.:34:41.

From now on he would only tell people whatever he thought

:34:42.:34:45.

they wanted to hear, whether he and the blue

:34:46.:34:48.

No better example of this chameleon-like tendency,

:34:49.:34:55.

say Mr Cameron's critics, than his attitude over

:34:56.:34:57.

Say whatever is necessary or expedient to get out

:34:58.:35:04.

of a difficult news cycle or party rebellion and then count

:35:05.:35:07.

on your ability as a brilliant salesman to get you out

:35:08.:35:09.

of difficulty before disaster strikes.

:35:10.:35:11.

David Cameron secured the Conservative Party leadership

:35:12.:35:19.

in 2005, partly by appealing to the Eurosceptic right of his party.

:35:20.:35:24.

A promise to take the Conservatives out of the European People's Party

:35:25.:35:28.

grouping in the European Parliament was essentially meaningless to most

:35:29.:35:31.

voters but acted like catnip to a certain type of Conservative MP.

:35:32.:35:36.

The caricature that he made these noises to try to win around

:35:37.:35:44.

the right of the party really isn't true because I discussed

:35:45.:35:46.

these issues with him in private company

:35:47.:35:48.

in public and there was no disconnect, he genuinely believed

:35:49.:35:52.

that the European Union needed fundamental reform.

:35:53.:35:54.

He was committed to trying to do that.

:35:55.:35:56.

That's why he took the tough decision to leave the EPP,

:35:57.:35:59.

It's why he vetoed the treaty when he became Prime Minister

:36:00.:36:04.

with all of the flak that he got on that.

:36:05.:36:08.

But in the end it just wasn't possible to get the kind of reform

:36:09.:36:11.

But the by-product of those decisions was to cut David Cameron

:36:12.:36:18.

off from like-minded centre-right EU leaders like Angela Merkel

:36:19.:36:20.

And it made it impossible for him to block the rise

:36:21.:36:28.

The Eurosceptics wanted more and more but David Cameron,

:36:29.:36:31.

having raised expectations during his leadership contest,

:36:32.:36:32.

Instead of talking the things that most people care about,

:36:33.:36:39.

we talked about what we cared about most.

:36:40.:36:42.

While parents worried about childcare, getting their kids

:36:43.:36:45.

to school, the balance between work and family life,

:36:46.:36:48.

we were sometimes banging on about Europe.

:36:49.:36:52.

I think when you are leader of the Conservative Party that has

:36:53.:36:56.

such a clear part that is dedicated to being Eurosceptic,

:36:57.:37:01.

and really very difficult to get a decision that would have

:37:02.:37:04.

What always impressed me about David as Prime Minister was that he did

:37:05.:37:13.

try and deliver for that group as well as deliver for

:37:14.:37:15.

I'm not entirely sure that when it came down to it at the 2005 and 2010

:37:16.:37:23.

general elections that Europe was the top agenda item for voters

:37:24.:37:26.

Like a brilliant but mercurial batsman, David Cameron tried

:37:27.:37:33.

to knock the ball out of the park to win the match on Europe

:37:34.:37:36.

when perhaps a more cautious politician would have

:37:37.:37:38.

But his approach worked, until it didn't.

:37:39.:37:43.

He was convinced he could win fundamental reform of the EU.

:37:44.:37:46.

He promised his party and the country.

:37:47.:37:50.

I will go to Brussels, I will not take no for an answer

:37:51.:37:54.

and when it comes to free movement, I will get what Britain needs.

:37:55.:37:59.

This promise and the referendum pledge itself were designed

:38:00.:38:02.

to neutralise the increasing threat that Mr Cameron saw from Ukip.

:38:03.:38:06.

Do you accept or not that in your renegotiation,

:38:07.:38:09.

free movement is not up for discussion?

:38:10.:38:10.

Nigel is basically saying give up before you've begun.

:38:11.:38:21.

In that election, the Ukip threat was contained,

:38:22.:38:22.

The unexpected victory gave Mr Cameron a huge problem.

:38:23.:38:26.

He didn't have to offer the referendum but the reality

:38:27.:38:28.

was that once he gave that promise, he had to deliver on it.

:38:29.:38:31.

There is no way that the Conservative Party

:38:32.:38:35.

at Westminster would allow that promise not to be delivered.

:38:36.:38:37.

Funnily enough I suppose one can say that his biggest error was winning

:38:38.:38:43.

the 2015 general election because had it still been

:38:44.:38:47.

a coalition, then of course the referendum, I suspect,

:38:48.:38:49.

would never have been allowed by the Liberal Democrats.

:38:50.:38:51.

What happened next in the negotiations

:38:52.:38:55.

and the referendum has, of course, been well documented.

:38:56.:39:00.

David Cameron was unable to deliver, unable to satisfy large

:39:01.:39:03.

sections of his party, unable to persuade

:39:04.:39:05.

I think the truth is, leaving the European Union is not

:39:06.:39:10.

When I worked for him as an adviser, we were discussing his approach

:39:11.:39:17.

on the Lisbon Treaty, he once joked that if we left

:39:18.:39:19.

the EU, at least he wouldn't have to worry about his legacy.

:39:20.:39:22.

Tony Blair worried about his legacy in those days.

:39:23.:39:26.

On his last full day as Prime Minister, Mr Cameron tried

:39:27.:39:30.

to point us towards an alternative legacy, visiting one of the more

:39:31.:39:34.

than 300 free schools that opened since he entered Downing Street.

:39:35.:39:37.

He looked relaxed, happy, even, as if savouring the moment

:39:38.:39:41.

A quick look at the papers, the Daily Telegraph on the legacy,

:39:42.:39:55.

saying that he hopes that people see a stronger country as he leaves, he

:39:56.:40:02.

said. The times refers to a possible Labour Party split. May's women on

:40:03.:40:10.

the march in the Daily Mail. That's all we have time for. I will be back

:40:11.:40:15.

tomorrow. Something is happening, what is it? Oh yes, Theresa May will

:40:16.:40:18.

be visiting the Palace! Sunshine sunshine and showers

:40:19.:40:37.

tomorrow. There will be more across

:40:38.:40:38.

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