03/10/2016 Newsnight

So, they're here, but are they clear as to what they do now?

That's the question for the Conservatives,

A new Prime Minister, a new zeal to change

Things, but with an in-tray overloaded by Brexit. This is where

Theresa May's vision begins to take shape. Let's keep working, to make

Britain a country that works not for a privileged few, but for everyone

in this great country. We'll try and fathom

out what that means. And with hard Brexit on the cards,

we'll get our heads around We want to take part in the... What

does that mean? It means the act we'll have is worthless.

Hello, welcome to Birmingham, and the Conservative Party Conference.

Now, if this party has anything, it is a capacity to reinvent itself

when the conditions demand it, and we are potentially in the midst

of one of its historic transmogrifications

Obviously, Doctor Who can do that kind of thing

in a matter of seconds, it takes the Conservatives rather longer.

So what this conference is about, is working out whether the change

is real, and if it is, sketching in the new look

of the party, with a little more definition than we've had up to now.

But what a journey the party has taken in the 14 years

since Theresa May first made a name for herself.

Not just any Government, a majority of

So, here we all are in 2016, the party trying

not to be overwhelmed by Brexit and to looked in control.

The Cameron era was itself a break from the past

and most people understood what he was at least

trying to achieve, a

more liberal party, in touch with modern

centre, wave from the party's forays elsewhere on the right.

Now, we're obviously at a big juncture.

But it's much harder to find the precise term

Party activists have, kind of, cottoned on to the concept.

Is that a new idea for the Conservative Party,

No, we've always been a party for everyone.

But how is it different from previous Tory parties?

Still got the same bit of pragmatism but a bit

I think there also a degree of populism about it, as well.

It's holding the centre and holding the right at the same time.

I don't think Cameron was against working

He was a fabulous Prime Minister, as well.

She's trying to make the Conservative Party the true

I wonder, out of the security zone into the country that will soon,

hopefully, be working for everyone, and the public are still working out

To be honest with you, I found that we

have a new Prime Minister about a day ago.

A country that works for everyone,

they are saying that a lot, have you heard that line?

But you could almost say it's a recycled line, I don't think she's

the first person to say that or something of that nature.

It's the dream of lots of politicians, that

And if you take out the Brexit issue,

there's quite a bit of that about Theresa May's pitch, right now.

However, it's impossible to believe that there is a coalition that

really covers 100% of public opinion.

At some point over this conference or over the next year, as

we understand what Theresa May is about, she'll have to define what

she's against as much as what she's for.

Now, apart from working out how to make a country work

for everybody, the party has to deal with that other issue: Brexit.

Perhaps the biggest news that we have had since

the referendum was in Theresa May's first conference speech yesterday,

which suggested Britain is heading for a clear

Put it this way, the speech knocked the pound down to new lows.

Ideally, the leadership don't want Brexit to be the only talking point

here, which is why they tried to get it out the way yesterday,

but let's face it, it is the main talking point.

Let's deal with it now, and some of the other issues

with our two specialist editors: political editor, Nick Watt,

Nick, first of all, something we know we're going to get tomorrow, a

rather interesting announcement. That's right. There's going to be a

major announcement by Theresa May and Sir Michael Fallon. They're

going to pledge to end what they're calling the vexatious industry of

claims against British soldiers. They're going to say in future

conflicts, the UK will seek to derogate from two articles from the

European Convention on Human Rights, article, two the right to life,

article five, the right to liberty. They will invoke article 15, which

says you can do this in times of emergency, or indeed in times of

conflict. Big announcement by them. Obviously, it will only apply in

future conflicts. The Iraq historical allegations team, whose

work is due to complete in 2019, will carry on, interestingly going

down very well with some of the newspapers that have campaigned on

this. European convention, nothing to do with the EU actually. This is

a different thing. OK, sticking on the non-Brexit stuff. Chris, policy

issues. Tomorrow we've got education, health. Yeah, health

first of all. Something that it's an awkward topic, the NHS is going

through a financial crisis. But they've found something they can

unite the party around. They want to reduce immigration pressures from

the NHS by increasing the number of doctors we train domestically in the

UK. At the moment we bring in about 1,000 doctors into the UK a year, we

train about 6,000 on our own. We go up to 7,500, so in principle we

could be self-sufficient. They can't talk about grammar schools very much

because there's an open consultation. The Government has to

legally wait for that to go through before they can really announce

anything. They're announcing these six action areas where they're going

to pilot new projects. These are areas of the country where education

isn't terribly great at the moment. They are Blackpool, Derby, Norwich,

Oldham, Scarborough and west Somerset. These are places that will

pilot new ideas so that the success we've seen in London can be emulated

elsewhere. Quite a bit going on. However, every time you get into a

conversation here, you drift away and then you come back to Brexit.

Let's talk about Brexit. We've had quite a lot here, yesterday and

today. What do you make of the announcements so far. We finally

have a time table for the process to begin to take us out. You mention

about soft or hard Brexit. They are banned. Theresa May says that's a

false dichotomy. I said softer not harder. You pass the test. Talking

to ministers, it does feel that our submarine Prime Minister in broad

daylight has done two things that perhaps people haven't noticed.

Firstly, on the style of those negotiations, she's signalling that

it will be really hard line. The message they want to get out to the

rest of the EU is that the UK would not be scared, would not be fearful

of leaving at the end of those negotiations without agreement.

You'll know a guillotine comes down after two years. What they want to

say is they don't want EU leaders to have the ability to prolong that if

we're showing fear. On style, hard line. On the substance of the

negotiation, Theresa May hasn't actually said a great deal more.

Controlled immigration, the UK will set its own laws. No more than that.

She's leaving the substance quite open. How united, you tell me, we've

all had some conversations here, how united do you think the party is? At

one level ministers are united. There's agreement that there's

clarity on the process to take us out. In broad daylight, yesterday

Boris Johnson said, "I don't believe leaving the EU will disadvantage us

in any way." Today a very stern message from Philip Hammond about

the challenge of those negotiations and saying he would do whatever it

takes to protect the UK from the turbulence of those negotiations.

There is real concern in the treasure that the -- treasurery that

the Brexiteers are not to the challenge. With minister has been

heard to remark that the Prime Minister has an incredible grasp of

the detail and is realistic. Of the three Brexiteers the senior official

has been heard to say, "They are away with the fairies." A true

European city with attractions to rival the finest found on the

continent. So where better for the Tory family to discuss its favourite

subject. On day one of the Conservative Conference on Sunday,

Theresa May finally set out a time table for Britain's Brexit

negotiations. Thank you. The time for Philip Hammond to offer a

sobering message about those negotiations. It is equally clear to

me that the British people did not vote on June 23 to become poorer or

less secure. So our task is clear, repat reiate our sovereignty,

control our borders and seize the opportunities that the wider world

has to offer, but do all of this while protecting our economy, our

jobs and our living standards. The international trade secretary, Liam

Fox, one of the Cabinet's three Brexiteers, was more optimistic. We

will continue to push the case for Britain as a great place to do

business. Now in case any of you haven't noticed, the sky didn't fall

down on 24th June. Theresa May wants to be remembered as the Prime

Minister who delivered on the wishes of the British people in the EU

referendum. But what really drove her to the top was a determination

to tackle what she's described as the burning injustices faced by the

poor and to champion the struggling classes. That is quite an ambitious

agenda, even without Brexit. But one former colleague of Theresa May, who

was passed over in the recent reshuffle, believes Governments can

ride two horses. This is partly what informs the way she suggested we're

going to do the Brexit process, which is to pass this bill that will

mean the moment we leave we have control over everything, but not

saying that you're going to change every single rule and regulation

over that process. I think that would be a capacity problem for

Government. The way she's set it out means we can make sure we deliver

that decision correctly. One long-standing supporter believes she

could even book a place in history. All things being equal, she should

have a pretty good run at 2020. She could be our Prime Minister for

close on nine years, even before the election of 2025. So I actually

believe that she will have a chance of successfully negotiating our

Brexit from the EU and at the same time, the the social reforms and

other factors important to her. She'll have a chance to do both.

Lord Ashcroftish yewed a note -- Ashcroft issued a note of caution.

Can Theresa May as the Prime Minister want to get involved in the

minutie in all she's trying to do. That will depend on her ministers of

state in the areas you talk about - can she trust them? Can she rely on

them? The three wise men, or the Brexiteers to friends, will be busy

over the next few years, but one of their supporters believes other

ministers will have plenty of time on their hands to focus on the Prime

Minister's domestic agenda. The EU stuff and article 50s will be the

lawyers. We're not going to comment on it, which I find reassuring,

actually we'll be able to get on with the day-to-day stuff. One

Remain supporter believes Brexit will drown out everything else. If

we push through with Brexit, it will take up most of the band width

probably for five years. That will limit what Government can do. There

are interesting ideas on grammar schools and housing and so on. The

Government will carry on being a Government, it will talk about other

things. But Brexit will touch so many areas of life and Government

activity, that it is going to dominate the agenda. Theresa May

says she can and indeed must deliver her two goals. In her mind they are

linked because the voters who took Britain out of the EU were crying

out for change. Well, one rare point of continuity

between David Cameron and Theresa May is that they both

wanted this man in the Treasury. David Gauke, now Chief Secretary

to the Treasury, joins me now. Welcome to the programme. A lot of

people interpreted Theresa May's speech yesterday as forget the

single market, we are not going to be in it. We will have access to it,

but we won't be in it. Is that your interpretation? What she was saying

is that one lesson we have to learn from the referendum result in June

is that first of all, very obviously, we have to leave the

European Union, but secondly, that a lot of the votes for Leave were

driven by concern about immigration and that we have to respond to that.

In particular, the sense that we don't set our own rules when it

comes to migration. I think that was very clearly a lesson that she has

taken from the referendum result. I think, she's very clear that we need

to ensure that the economy is strong, that we have access to be

able to trade goods and services with the European Union. What that

particular model would be, I think, is something for the negotiations.

We probably need to get away from the very simple, you know, is it a

Norway model, Canada model or anything of that sort. I don't want

to be simplistic about it, but basically, full membership of the

single market, we've said goodbye to that some time ago yeah. That is not

going to happen. And not even on a Norwegian scale. We're going to be

much more selective in our relationship than that?

Well, I think we will go into the negotiations with those two, if you

like, overarching objectives. Now, trying to get the best possible deal

that we will get. I didn't think it makes sense too, kind of, take a

position whereby you say this one is really important, this one, we will

do what we can but it is secondary. You are immediately weakening your

negotiating power. That is not how you go into negotiation, you go in

seeking the best on both runs and seek to achieve it. Why do you think

the pound fell when Theresa May spoke yesterday? You mentioned I

have been a Treasury minister for a while and one good rule for a

Treasury minister is not to talk or speculate about sterling. I probably

shouldn't get into that. Look, the markets are, move around, from one

issue or another. You know, obviously... Policy in this area is

going to affect sterling, there are many other factors as well. It is

probably best as a Treasury minister not to get drawn into it. Hinting,

though you may be trying. It was interesting that the Chancellor,

Philip Hammond on the radio this morning did suggest that the central

estimate of Brexit, this is the Treasury estimate, is that we will

be permanently 4% poorer. Not tomorrow but over the years, we will

be 4% behind where we would otherwise be, that is the long run

picture. Is that the official government view? When it comes to

economic forecasts, obviously, the Treasury made an assessment earlier

this year as to it. An assessment based on a number of factors. It

partly depends on the nature of the relationship we have with the

European Union and it depends on various factors. The short-term

estimate they made white ... Was that the one from the George Osborne

Treasury dossier on costs of Brexit? Is that the figure he was talking

about? I didn't hear his interview, I do not know the context in which

Philip Hammond said that. But before percent is what he is quoting from

the dossier? It depends on which model we go down. -- but the 4%.

There was analysis from the Treasury earlier this year that suggested

there are some long-term impacts. For those of us in government, our

job is to get on with implementing what the British people have

decided. To make a success of it. If you like, has the Treasury worked at

the differences between those models? I recollect, back in April,

the Treasury view was if you are in the single market, expected to be 4%

poorer. EA option, we won't go into the details. If you go for a lesser

Brexit, hard of Brexit, the costs go up to 6% or 8% of national income.

We should be chewing over those figures, shouldn't we? If you like,

these are the prices on the menu that is being chosen by our

government, selected by our government, the option from the

menu. The point I I would make, the Treasury did the analysis earlier

this year. Hasn't gone back and redone the analysis. Staggered by

the analysis. Philip Hammond was quoting it this morning. I suppose I

was surprised the analysis done in the heat of the referendum was now

being quoted by the Chancellor as the government view of the effect of

Brexit. As I say, didn't hear exactly what Philip said. But there

are some challenges that we face, as a consequence of Brexit. But I come

back to this point about, you know, we are now in this position of

negotiating a new relationship. This is an unprecedented situation. We

need to find the best possible deal we can get. These are... Just brave

faced words. Can you think of any other action the government has

taken that would make us permanently 4% poorer? Other than going to a

world war? We had a referendum and we have to respect the result, the

British people have decided we have left the European union -- we have

left. If we are going to make a success of it, which is what the

government is determined to do. Then we need to get the best possible

deal. That means... I come back to this point. You come back but we

need the information as to what the costs are believing the single

market or going to the WTO rules. There is no point having this

discussion and everybody clapping Theresa May saying we will make a

success of it if you are busy doing work that makes us 2% poorer for

eternity. This is big stuff, isn't it? The point is that a decision has

been made and we need to implement. On the perspective of all of the

government, we want to do this in a way that is as economically

successful for the country. That means, if you like, trying to

ameliorate some of the downsides. Looking at some of the ways we can

access European markets for goods and. Yeah. It also means that we

look at the potential opportunities for Brexit in terms of potential

trade deals with other countries. And being a beacon for free trade,

if you like. To see what is the best way in which we can address the new

situation. That is what we are determined to do. But the starting

point has to be the British people voting to leave and we have to

leave. Theresa May has set out, not red lines, everything is negotiable,

she mentioned immigration, taking back control of the European Court

of Justice. We can't be bossed around by a foreign court. She

didn't mention in the speech yesterday, we will not be paying a

penny to the European Union, if you like, in a subscription fee. Yeah.

Can I take it that we may come as a possible result for this

negotiation, on the table, is some negotiation that we may pay them a

fee? For example, better access to the market. So, we will give some

things, take some things, give some money and get things in return?

Again, I come back to a point I made earlier. You go into a negotiation,

you don't come up with a list of things that you say, here are the

things we are going to concede... She came up with the list, it was in

the speech! Trying to over analyse and saying, if something is included

in the speech than we are really serious about it but if there is a

speech that doesn't make reference to something else that we are ready

to concede on it. I mean, I could stop you doing that, but that

doesn't seem to be a sensible way for me to think of negotiating. To

summarise our Brexit conversation so far, we know diddly squat about

what's going to happen. But, that's not necessarily a bad thing, because

obviously we want to keep everything open. There is a lot to play for and

we will not rush it. What is the best way to get the best deal? Not

to lay it all out, hold back information, frustrating though it

may be for journalists. But imagine a Mac I understand that. It is

important for the country, given the prices for various options. There

will no doubt be a very full debate when we reached the end of this

conclusion. Let's go onto, very briefly, this domestic agenda.

Theresa May seems to be quite ambitious for change in the country,

she wants to become if you like, a more industrial policy for example.

Helping people who perhaps don't have so much money in their pocket.

Should we take it that that agenda is going to cost a little extra

money. So, over time, we might have to raise taxes, somehow? Or is it

possible you can deliver that agenda without spending a penny more than

anyone had talked about spending? Your question, I suspect, relates to

the statement that Philip said, today, that other people said in the

past, we are not aiming for the 2020 surplus. There are a couple of

elements to that. Firstly, if the economy does slow over the course of

the next few years, following Brexit referendum, tax receipts would be

lower than the other would be. Then we need to borrow more. I wasn't

asking about that at all. I was asking about... Do you think Theresa

May can deliver this ambitious social agenda she has been talking

about? Can that be delivered in the medium to long-term without raising

a bit of extra money? Has she got in her head and agenda costs nothing? I

was going to turn to the second element of this. OK. It was very

clear from the Chancellor's speech today that we are looking at, for

example, ways in which we spend money on economic infrastructure.

That has a very good rate of return. Robust contribution towards the

economy. Looking at ways in which perhaps we could do more of that,

given that, actually, we are able to borrow very cheaply at the moment.

But there is a particular driver for improving productivity. Now, those

are, if you like other measures that fit, perhaps, with what you are

talking about. That sort of Theresa May agenda. There might be scope for

us to do more in those areas, about driving up productivity, making sure

that the economy is strong in every part of the country. You know,

making a country that works for everyone. You know, all of that is

part of our thinking. That in the short term, maybe we need a bit more

flexibility. Nice to talk to you, thank you.

Well, we just tried to shed a little light on what the Government's

position is on some crucial aspects of the Brexit negotiations.

We'll leave it to you to decide how successfully.

But, the truth is that there is a heady mixture of conflict,

confusion and contradiction around this Conference about

We sent Lewis Goodall to quiz the great and the good

MUSIC: Word Up! by Cameo.

Brexit is the word of the year, the subject of virtually every

meeting, argument and drink-fuelled piece of idle gossip at conference.

But what about all the other Brexit terms we barely gave

a moment's thought to, before the referendum result?

The Prime Minister is terribly fond of reminding us that

Brexit means Brexit, but within that, what do

Do you know your common market from the common agricultural policy,

Well, we thought we would help you out by commissioning our very

And ask Conservative Party members, ministers and MPs

MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.

Do you think we should stay in the single market?

Why not? It's disastrous.

We should do much better by ourselves.

It's very important to trade, but we are negotiating right now,

so it's kind of important to not talk about what we want

Sajid Javid, hello, I just want your thoughts are on staying

in the single market, do you think we ought to?

No, no, it's great to have you here, you're one

MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.

Sorry, have you got ten seconds for Newsnight?

No, no, no. I'm busy, thank you.

We're just wondering, we're trying to tell the public

what the single market is and the custom unions,

What's the difference is between the single market

I could, yes, very easily, but it would take about 15 minutes.

15 minutes?! Surely not!

Do you know what the customs union is?

I do know what these things are, it's my job to know what these

things are, but I don't think, you know, they are not terminology

Could you explain to us what the customs union is?

I could explain what the customs union is, what the single market is,

I could explain to you what people think hard Brexit is, soft Brexit.

But I think these terms are not the terms...

For the benefit of us, could you explain?

Well, you know what they are, which is why...

The customs union is a free-trade area between the member states

MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.

Yes, I do. Can you explain?

I'm not going to do one of your pub quiz operations,

Equivalence? Yeah.

Well, as a word, it means it should be the equivalent of something.

I think it's got a specific European Union context.

Well, there's a lot of European stuff that nobody knows

Well, it's having reglatory standards that are more or less

But it's not the same as being governed strictly

or uniformly, absolutely by the EU rules.

At the end of a long day's search, the dictionary remains,

For all our sakes's we better hope the politicians

For a limited time only, it will be tariff free.

So, what kind of Conservative Party is being presented here and is it

one that will prove more or, at least, as popular

than the Cameron-Osborne vintage that won an election just last year?

With me here are three people who've seen more Conferences

than they might care to admit: Danny Finkelstein, Conservative peer

and columnist for the Times, Andrew Rawnsley, from the Observer,

and Jenni Russell, also from the Times.

And Heidi Allen, Conservative MP. Last year, you were complaining

about posh boys in charge of this place, weren't you? You must be

delighted, you must think Theresa May is... She has made me cry once

already. When? Her first speech on the steps of number ten, I thought,

somebody seems to be speaking for the little man. That made me

excited. Is this a new party or is this the words have changed? It is

like any new branding, we have a new chief exec in charge, the words are

great. I am optimistic and hopeful. I have seen a few early signs, the

changes to E S A, long-term claimants will no longer get tested

again. A great start but I want to see more of that.

Do you think this is a sharp contrast? There are changes. We

concentrate on the changes and can miss the big picture. The Government

is in the same situation, maybe even a bit more of a difficult situation

to the one that we were in before, after the general election and after

the Brexit referendum. It's still a Government with a small majority.

It's still a Government that doesn't have any money. Now on top of that,

they have to achieve Brexit. One of the things that we do, we lock at

the differences by looking at the disposition of the party. The other

thing to look at is the situation. The situation has very many

similarities. Along with inheriting David Cameron's office, Theresa

May's inherited David Cameron's problems as well. Yes, of course,

she has a different approach. I've always thought of her of being in

the modernising tradition. She would say she was an early moderniser. I

regarded her at the beginning of the process of modernisation as an ally.

She has a different focus. When David Cameron took over it was about

shifting the aimth of the Conservative Party to a

forward-facing. She's looking at a different thing, which is can the

Conservative Party appeal more broadly. It's a different emphasis.

I think by concentrating only on the differences you miss quite a lot. It

feels like, I mean a lot of people have said this, she is where Ed

Miliband was, or the chatter is around Ed Miliband before the last

election. Yes, one of her favourite things is, she did that in the first

speech which Heidi mentioned outside Number Ten and she's done it in

every major, important speech on her domestic ambitions, talking about

managing and people echo Ed Miliband's squeezed middle or

perhaps the less well remembered, Nick Clegg's alarm clock Britain. I

think she is probably onto something, which is actually

historically served the Conservatives well when they've got

it right electorally, which is people who are in work, but on

relatively low wages and the Conservatives often recruit when

they've been successful that part of population. Or some of them into

their coalition. Of course, the test and this is the really crucial thing

for those people and everybody else looking at her, is do you translate

the nice words about them into any sort of policy. So far Brexit apart,

in terms of solid policy, we've had grammar schools, which many people,

including many Tories, think is a rather bizarre diversion. Actually

if she was serious and you translated the things she said about

what she wants to do for that part of society into policy, it would

actually give the ingredients for quiet a radically different Toryism

which would mean taking on vested interests in the Conservative Party

itself. For me the most interesting thing she's done is appoint Matthew

Taylor, who ran the policy unit under Tony Blair to investigate the

workings of the labour market, the gig economy, the zero hours. Maybe

there is a sort of thing, the centre left and the kind of the right

getting together to preserve the status quo and fending off Corbyn

and the more extreme left, is that a way of looking at it? That's an

important target for her to hit. As the economy's changed, more and more

of us are in the insecure economy. That probably drove Brexit. A great

many people at the bottom thinking their lives had no structure. The

question is, will she do anything that's actually coherent about that?

I was interviewing Iain Duncan Smith this afternoon. He was saying that

the single most, biggest mistake that Cameron and Osborne made about

the poor was not raising the level at which you can earn under

universal credit before you start having benefits taken away. Forget

the talk about social justice and so on, the single thing that Theresa

May should be doing is putting an enormous amount of money is to

ensure when universal credit comes in poorer people keep more incomes.

That would put a few billions... You're all nodding. The money has to

come from somewhere. I'm not sure that's going to be possible.

However, first I thought this thing of governing the country for those

who are just about managing was for David Moyes. I realised over time

she is aiming at a different audience. It does mean, it is a

change of emphasis. It will mean more emphasis on Government and what

Government can do. The Conservative policy's emphasis has shifted from

how to cut Government, cut taxes, to thinking, look Government spends 40%

of our national income what can it do. That will be her emphasis. It

will challenge vested interests. The fantastic tension here is that if

everybody thinks if we're going to leave the European Union we will be

substantially poorer. And the people most likely to be hit are at the

bottom. That's her problem. Heidi, go on. It's 350 million per week for

the NHS remember. That cash is there. You've brought us onto the

subject of whether the party is united under Theresa May. Because

everybody thinks she's great. Everybody I've spoken to. On Brexit,

there is a division waiting to erupt. People say it's obviously

bonkers. We're about to do something really stupid. No, I don't know, I

think... You think that. It's too early to know whether it's complete

peace and harmony, mostly because we haven't been back in Parliament for

long before we've broken for recess again. She's being shrewd by talking

about a time scale where article 50 will be triggered. There's something

to give there. Most of the egos have been put to one side for now. I'm

sure they'll come back again. Now it's calmer. The key about Brexit,

nothing has yet happened. The European Union, the 27 of them who

will remain in the European Union when we leave have not had their

meeting where unanimously they have to agree what their negotiating

position is. We have not revealed what ours is. You haven't accepted

the result of the referendum. The key factor is that lots of people on

the remain side of the argument, like me, believe that the

Conservative Party asked people for their opinion and have to respect

that result. That is a very important part of the unity. I don't

agree with your interpretation. I think one of the things, by the way,

that will serve the Conservative Party from having a row is even if

some people think we should be members of the single market, we

won't be offered membership, so it won't come to that. This is not a

negotiation in which we get to decide everything. I think - Do you

think the Tory party's realised that? I'm not sure they have. I

think most people in the Conservative Party have accepted the

result of the referendum. Do you agree that most have accepted the

result of the referendum? I think within the Parliamentary party, yes.

I think the people, the 42% or 48% of the country probably haven't. In

constituencies like mine, they are still fighting very, very hard not

to accept it. But just going back to whether we have access to the single

market, I think Theresa May has it in her to get a deal that works for

us, a brand new deal for the UK and yes, there is negotiation that will

be required on both sides. She's getting out there and bidding

relationships. I don't want to get any more EU, go on then. You're all

personed on these seats. It's hard to balance. There's all this

revivalist enthusiasm on the platforms, when you talk to people

in public. The people who are worried about the consequences of

Brexit and the way in which it's going to make the divisions clearer

in a year etime are the people who are remainers, looking at the

economics, talking in huddled corners like Soviet Dissidents. They

don't dare say what they feel. Last question, does the left-right, does

that spectrum, every now and then people say left-right it doesn't

work any more. Does it not work any more? You look at Theresa May, quite

hard pro-gay marriage, more conservative on issues of security

and personal liberty. I think she will end up having something of a

left-right argument in the party in which she will be on the left. I

think this is a misinterpretation of her caused by one policy of grammar

schools. If you look across the piece of the emphasis she's making,

it's taking David Cameron's move away from Thatcherism on. One of the

real questions is how the Conservative Party, we haven't

talked about this at all, how it reacts to what's happened to the

Labour Party. There's two ways to look at that. One is let's have in

the centre ground and have that since Labour wants to go somewhere

else apparently. Another view, which will be prevalent among people who

regard themselves as more radical right, they say this is a golden

opportunity... To move to the right. And I think that argument is

unresolved. We need to leave it there. Thank you all very much.

We leave you with Karen Bradley, the new Culture Secretary who made

a passionate defence of her credentials for the job,

despite having been a chartered accountant in a previous life.

It somehow reminded us of something else, something

Being one means I must have no interest in the arts.

Accountants are, shock horror, people, to!

It says you are an extremely dull person.

Do you have any idea of what you want to be?

Yes, but what qualifications do you have?

I'm a regular at the new Vic Theatre.

And I have paintings by moorlands artists.

And it lights up and says "Lion tamer" in big red neon letters.

It's sad isn't it that this is what accountancy does to people.

The only way we can fight this terrible, debilitating

I only want to see my name in lights.

Hi there. It's a settled prospect across the UK for the next several

days really with high pressure and winds from the east keeping

rain-bearing weather fronts to the west. There will be subtle

variations.