Browse content similar to 13/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Just two months to go until Scotland decides if it should stay | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
As the campaign heads for the final furlong, | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
what are the issues and arguments that will determine the result? | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
The SNP's deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon joins me live. | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
David Cameron's scheduled a major cabinet reshuffle on Tuesday. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Many of those tipped for promotion are women. | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
So have efforts to promote diversity in public life barely started or | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
And don't know whether to support Germany or | :01:03. | :01:11. | |
In the east, our offshore political guide to the World Cup. | :01:12. | :01:24. | |
In the east, our offshore industry is holding their breath over | :01:25. | :01:37. | |
It's World Cup final day and as usual the BBC's snagged the | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
Yes, eat your heart out, ITV, because for top football analysis | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
we've got Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen, and Alan Shearer. | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
And for top political analysis you may | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
as well tune in to them too because all we could come up with is Nick | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
David Cameron will reshuffle his cabinet on Tuesday. | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
The Sunday papers are full of stories telling us who'll be | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
in and who'll be out, though they don't really know. | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
The Mail on Sunday has one of the more eye-catching lines, | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
reporting that former defence secretary and right-winger Liam Fox | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
is in line for a return to the political front line. | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
But there's general agreement that women will do well and some | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
of the old men in suits guard will do badly. | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Here's senior Tory backbencher David Davis speaking to this programme. | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
It's good to make parliament more representative. | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
But you've got to do it in a way that doesn't create | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
injustices, and you can't put people in a job who can't do the job. | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
And I've seen that too over the last 20 years, people being | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
accelerated too far too fast and they come to | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
a screeching halt where they have to catch up with themselves. | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
I am not going to give an example. Is this not a bit cynical? He is | :03:10. | :03:22. | |
going to promote these women into cabinet positions, but they will not | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
be able to do anything. I am sceptical of Cabinet reshuffle. It | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
is an un-written pact in that the media and the government have a | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
great interest in talking it up. The government says, haven't we | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
refreshed ourselves? Generally it doesn't refresh the government. | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
David Cameron wants to send out a new signal. You're going to see the | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
old guard getting a P 45 and you will see a lot of women come in and | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
a lot of younger men. We will find there will be a lot of resignations. | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
A lot of, dear Prime Minister, as I told you 18 months ago, I want to | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
move on. Because the Conservatives have this perception of not being | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
very good with women and not being good with black and ethnic minority | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
voters, they are going to want to do something about that. Why did he not | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
do it before? This reshuffle might be the triumph of the a list. A lot | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
of the women coming through the ranks have been from the a list | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
which was a half measure because they knew they could not bring all | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
of them in. You are going to see more women but that is a result of a | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
long-term strategy. David Cameron is not the world's most raging | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
feminist. He is doing this for practical reasons. He knows he has | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
an image problem for the party and he has to solve it. He was stung by | :05:02. | :05:11. | |
that picture of the all-male bench at Prime Minister's Questions | :05:12. | :05:13. | |
because visibly it gave you the problem that you have been talking | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
about. I do not think he has allowed it to be all-male since that | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
embarrassing image. I can understand the criticism made of this approach | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
if it was the case that all the women being promoted by talentless | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
but you have to be very harsh to look at them and say that they would | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
have much less to offer than the likes of Andrew Lansley. You can be | :05:40. | :05:52. | |
pro-feminist. The tests for David Cameron is that having raised | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
expectations he has to give them substantial jobs. They have to be | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
given departments to run or big portfolios to carry. If they are | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
given media campaign positions in the run-up to the election it looks | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
perfunctorily. He is under some trouble to perhaps suggest a female | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
commissioner to the European Union Commission. Jean-Claude Juncker has | :06:16. | :06:24. | |
made clear that if he proposes a woman candidate they will get a | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
better job. Saying they would like ten out of the 28 to be women. We | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
are going to get the name of the British candidate at the same time | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
as the reshuffle. The first face-to-face meeting, he will be | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
able to put a name. There are other names in the frame. People like | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
Archie Norman. That come from? His name is in the frame. There would be | :06:56. | :07:05. | |
great scepticism of giving it to Andrew Lansley. People would think | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
he was the man who mucked up the reform of the NHS. Who is it going | :07:09. | :07:17. | |
to be? Either a woman or a man. I would not be surprised if they go | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
for someone believe dynamic. Someone who would square the party. Would | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
that not mean a by-election? It might. She is a high profile | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
Eurosceptic. She is a very competent former banker. It would be the smart | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
choice. I have no idea but my favourite rumour is Michael Howard. | :07:41. | :07:41. | |
That had some legs for a while. The Mystic Megs of Fleet Street | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
predict with confidence that the PM is going to promote more women | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
in his cabinet reshuffle. The move can be seen as part | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
of a move across British public life to do more to make our institutions | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
less male and less white. But as the list | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
of schemes to encourage diversity grows ever-longer, have we abandoned | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
the idea of appointment by merit? Tunnelling. Hard hats, and all for | :08:05. | :08:20. | |
new trains. It does not get more macho than the Crossrail project. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
When Crossrail looked at the construction industry they realise | :08:26. | :08:26. | |
that less than 20% was made up construction industry they realise | :08:27. | :08:37. | |
women and they asked, can we fix it? They are trying with a recruitment | :08:38. | :08:39. | |
drive that has brought in female engineers like this woman. She even | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
has a tunnel named after her. Having more female engineers and | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
construction brings a bigger range of opinions, a bigger range of | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
ideas, more diversity, into the industry, and makes it better as a | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
whole. It is the issue being grappled in another male dominated | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
workplace, the Cabinet. There is about to be a reach shuffle and the | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
rumour is David Cameron is going to promote a lot of female ministers. | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
It was a lack of promotion that annoyed Harriet Harman this week. | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
She claimed Gordon Brown did not make her Deputy Prime Minister | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
because she was a woman. It was strange that in a hard-fought highly | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
contested election to be deputy leader of the Labour Party, and | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
having won against men in the Cabinet, to succeed to be deputy | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
leader of the Labour Party I discovered that I was not to be | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
appointed as Deputy Prime Minister. For women in this country, no matter | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
how able they are, the matter how hard they might work, they are still | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
not equal. There are initiatives to make the world feel more equal. In | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
the City the EU wants a quarter for women in the boardroom but that goal | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
of making 40% of the top floor female. At the BBC the boss of the | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
TV division says no panel show should ever be all-male. In the ever | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
glamorous movie business the British film Institute announced their new | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
thematic system to get lottery funding projects improving diversity | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
on screen and off and helping social mobility. Employers like Crossrail | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
are not allowed to positively discriminate but under the quality | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
act of 2010 if two candidate for a job are just as good you are allowed | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
to base your decision on characteristics like race, sexuality | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
and gender. Some worry it has chipped away at the idea of hiring | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
on merit. A woman and three men going for a job, two of the men are | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
really good and the woman is not quite as good but she gets the job | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
anyway. That will create injustice, a feeling that she did not deserve | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
the job, resentment. It does not advance equality in society at all. | :11:04. | :11:14. | |
On this project they want to leave a concrete legacy of a more diverse | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
construction industry. The question is, what tools do you use when it | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
comes to the rest of society? I'm joined now by | :11:20. | :11:30. | |
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, a columnist for the Independent, | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
and by Munira Mirza, the deputy mayor of London responsible | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
for education and culture. Cabinet wee shovel coming up punches | :11:36. | :11:47. | |
though. Should David Cameron be promoting women? He is going to do | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
it anyway. He should have a long time ago. It does not feel quite | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
right that a few months before the election it would do the party a lot | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
of good to be seen as a party properly reflective of the entire | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
population. He should promote women because they are women? I think he | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
should think about lots of different factors, whether the people he wants | :12:16. | :12:17. | |
promote have proven themselves in their current reefs, whether they | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
are good performers in the media, whether they represent different | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
parts of the party, but the main principle is to promote on basis of | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
merit. There are many talented women who fill that description. It should | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
be that merit is the important thing rather than what you were born with. | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
The thing about positive discrimination as it flies in the | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
face of that kind of principle. You are shaking your head. We have | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
always had positive discrimination. Men of a certain class have | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
appointed in their own image because they feel most comfortable with | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
that. We have had unspoken positive discrimination in this country and | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
every other country throughout history. We are asking as women, | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
every other country throughout history. We are asking as women all | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
minorities, let us get into the same game. What do you say? You cannot | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
solve the racism or the sexism of the past by more racism and sexism. | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
It is not the past. There are complex reasons why a smaller number | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
of women will appear in certain industries. It has a lot to do with | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
childcare, education, expected. You cannot short cut that by setting a | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
target. That is not how you achieve equality. Things are changing and | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
more women are appearing in engineering and so on but it will | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
take time. My worry is that these kinds of measures are | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
counter-productive and undermine the perception that women can do it on | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
their own merit rather counter-productive and undermine the | :13:53. | :13:54. | |
perception that women can do it than because they need a helping hand. It | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
is not a helping hand. It is to say, we are as good as men and these | :14:00. | :14:10. | |
hidden barriers. Dot. Either they are not as good or they do not want | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
it, which is just how we persuade are not as good or they do not want | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
it, which ourselves that it is not happening, or there are barriers. | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
How we judge meritocracy is at the heart of it. Are lots of industries | :14:22. | :14:29. | |
won there are not that many women, such as engineering. We need more | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
engineers generally. I think it is fine to try to encourage more women | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
to study that subject. By setting a target you put pressure on an | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
organisation. You tried to ignore the complex reasons why women do not | :14:51. | :15:11. | |
go into those sectors. I think an all-female short list achieved | :15:12. | :15:21. | |
miracle in Parliament. This is following up from having an | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
injection of women coming up because the system was changed and a large | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
percentage of women went into Parliament under the all-female | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
short list were brilliant, so why not? So if the Prime Minister is | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
mailed the Deputy Prime Minister has to be female and vice versa? Yes, | :15:43. | :15:50. | |
absolutely, 50-50. We need to reflect the population. If we want | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
to play this as a symbolic gesture, ideally we should have one of each. | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
Why should a man get the job if you have a great female prime minister | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
and a great female Deputy Prime Minister? I personally wouldn't mind | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
this. I hear the disgruntled man and I want to come -- them to come with | :16:19. | :16:28. | |
us. You're choosing people on the basis of traits they were born | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
with. Are there too many Indian doctors in the NHS? I would argue | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
not. Given that we tend to have male prime ministers rather than female | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
ones, and we don't see another female one coming down the pipe very | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
quickly... In the time before women short lists by the way. If you had a | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
male prime minister with a female Deputy Prime Minister, wouldn't that | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
give some balance? Why women? Why not working class person, which | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
group do you prioritise? I would go with you that we need something | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
fundamental to change. This idea that what we have now is a | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
reflection of a genuine meritocracy is highly questionable. I would | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
argue that when you look at the statistics things are changing. | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
argue that when you look at the statistics things There are more | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
women appearing in parts of public life, that is a long-term trend, | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
women appearing in parts of public life, that is a long-term trend but | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
if you are trying to appoint people on what they were born with... That | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
is not the only reason but it is an additional reason. She has to be | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
able to do the job, obviously. I am saying the policy of hazard to | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
discrimination explicitly state that you should choose somebody who is | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
female because they are female. At the moment there is already enough | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
suspicion about women who are successful to get to the senior | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
position and if you institutionalise it you reinforce that suspicion. | :18:04. | :18:04. | |
it you reinforce that suspicion Harriet Harman is still complaining | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
women are not being treated fairly. I think the policy reinforces the | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
prejudice that women are not getting there because they are treated on | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
the same basis. Although you may not want to have the all-female short | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
list forever, wasn't it the kind of shock to the system that made a | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
visible change in female representation, which the Tory side | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
hasn't got? Of course it will work short-term but longer term it has a | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
very degrading effect on the principle of equality and the fact | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Harriet Harman is saying she wasn't treated equally, whether it is true | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
or not, the perception is still there. A number of women find this | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
position must be reserved for a woman lying patronising, and | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
speaking of patronising women, you spoken your Independent column, she | :19:05. | :19:13. | |
presses all of the buttons for white people... Was that patronising and | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
offensive? Probably. I wrote it because I felt that at the time but | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
the point is that I was a token when I was appointed. The paper brought | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
me in because I was a woman and I was a muslin or whatever. You are | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
not writing about yourself. I was writing... It doesn't mean you don't | :19:36. | :19:48. | |
criticise other women. We absolutely have to be tough, Manira is tough | :19:49. | :19:56. | |
and so am I. Do you want to take back what you wrote? No. Do you | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
really think positive discrimination has gone too far? I think there is | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
already a suspicion out there that in certain sectors women are being | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
promoted for the wrong reasons or ethnic minorities are being promoted | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
for the wrong reasons. That is a shame and my worry is that by tying | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
funding to your ethnicity or your gender, by saying you will get a | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
promotion if you check that box, but promotion if you check that box but | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
you feel that resentment and prejudice and undermine the case for | :20:32. | :20:41. | |
inequality. I wanted to be treated equally, because I am capable of | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
doing that job. Only two months to go before Scotland takes its biggest | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
constitutional decision in 300 years - should it quit or stay with the | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
UK? For some in Scotland campaign has been going on forever. What has | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
been the impact on the campaign to date? | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
Alex Salmond says Scotland would remain part of the European Union | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
with sterling as its currency in a monetary union with the rest of the | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
UK, but he has also promised more public spending, increased child | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
care provision and free personal care for the elderly. The SNP claims | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
it would leave people better off by ?1000 though that partly depends on | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
the price of oil. With the Better Together arguing against | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
independence, it has naturally been attacking the SNP on all fronts. | :21:48. | :21:48. | |
attacking the SNP on all fronts George Osborne says there will be no | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
monetary union. President Barroso told the BBC it would be extremely | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
difficult for Scotland to join the EU after a yes vote. His successor | :22:01. | :22:11. | |
this week said he agreed. Unions claim Scotland benefit by ?1400 by | :22:12. | :22:21. | |
being part of the UK. A poll this morning shows a significant lead of | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
57% for the no campaign, leaving the SNP to claim it will go their way in | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
the last ten weeks. Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister of | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
Scotland, joins me now. You want an independent Scotland to keep the | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
pound, stay in NATO, stay in the EU, Scotland already has all of that | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
but you cannot guarantee it would have any of it in an independent | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
Scotland, why take the risk? All of these things should be the case | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
because they are in the best interests of Scotland and the rest | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
of the UK but we want the powers to enable us to grow our economy | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
faster, to be productive, and overtime increased the prosperity of | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
people living in Scotland. We also want powers over our social security | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
system so that we can create a system that meets our needs, one | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
that also has a safety net for the most vulnerable people in our | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
society. Independence is about letting us decide our own | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
priorities. You didn't answer my question, you cannot guarantee you | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
would be able to keep the pound within a monetary union, stay in | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
NATO and the EU, you cannot guarantee you could produce any of | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
these things, correct? I would argue that we can because these things are | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
also in the interest of the rest of the UK. No country can be prevented | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
from using the pound, I suggest we use that within a formal monetary | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
union. We have had the UK minister quoted in the Guardian saying the | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
position of the UK Government right now is one based on campaign | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
rhetoric and following a yes vote, of course there would be a currency | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
union. Who is that minister? The Minister is unnamed, but | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
nevertheless that story in the Guardian was a solid one and not | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
substantially denied. So you are basing your monetary policy on one | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
on named minister in one story? Basing it on Common sense because | :24:40. | :24:49. | |
monetary union would be in the best interests for Scotland but also | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
overwhelmingly in the interests of the rest of the UK, given their | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
trading relationship with Scotland and the contribution Scotland's | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
exports make. We are having a very good debate and the UK Government | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
and the no campaign, and this is not a criticism, want to talk up in -- | :25:12. | :25:20. | |
uncertainty to make people feel scared, but after independence there | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
will be constructed process of negotiation. Let's stick with the | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
monetary union because most economists agree it would be very | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
good for an independent Scotland to have a monetary union but George | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
Osborne, Ed Balls, Danny Alexander are unequivocal, they say you won't | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
get it. You claim they are bluffing but again you cannot guarantee that | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
so why the risk? I would say the benefits of independence are | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
substantial but I would also say to George Osborne and his counterparts | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
in the other parties that it would be a very brave Chancellor that says | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
to businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
additional transaction costs of half a very brave Chancellor that says to | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
additional transaction costs of half. What we are doing is making a | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
case that is based on common sense and voters in Scotland will listen | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
to that case being put forward by the other side as well, and they | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
will come to a judgement of the common-sense position. Let's look at | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
EU membership because you haven't been able to guarantee the monetary | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
union. When President Barroso said that a seamless transition to EU | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
membership for an independent Scotland was anything but certain, | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
and one said it could even be impossible, you dismissed him | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
because he was standing down, but been -- venue EU president says the | :27:00. | :27:08. | |
same, do you dismissed him? What we are doing... I should say at the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
outset of this, we have said repeatedly to the UK Government, | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
let's go jointly and ask for a formal opinion on the EU | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
commission. The EU commission have said they will only do that at this | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
stage if the UK Government ask for it, they are point blank refusing to | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
do that, you have to ask why? It is in their interests to talk up | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
uncertainty. Scotland is an integral part of the European Union, we have | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
been for 40 years, we comply with the rules and regulations... Mr | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
Juncker knows all of that but he still says it will be anything but a | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
seamless transition. He said you could not join the European Union by | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
sending a letter, that is not our proposal. We set down a robust | :28:02. | :28:15. | |
proposal and the timescale we think is reasonable under these | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
circumstances. There are many nationals of other states living in | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Scotland right now, if we were to be outside of the European Union for | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
any period of time, something the current treaty doesn't even provide | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
for, they would lose their right to stay here. The interests of Scotland | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
and the interests of European Union are in favour of a seamless | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
transition. It comes down to common sense and people in Scotland will | :28:43. | :28:44. | |
make sense and people in Scotland will | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
their own judgement on who is talking the common-sense. What about | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
NATO, two years ago you told Newsnight the SNP's position is that | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
we wouldn't stay in NATO. We had a democratic debate, we looked at | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
whether it would be in the interests of an independent Scotland, which | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
forms a significant part of the territory of the North Atlantic and | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
the party changed its mind. It did so in a thoroughly democratic way. | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
That is the nature of democracy. Would you accept the protection of | :29:26. | :29:35. | |
the NATO nuclear umbrella? There is no doubt the SNP's position is that | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
we do not want nuclear weapons in Scotland. That is not what I asked. | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
The world rid themselves of nuclear weapons. One of the interesting | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
point is of the 28 member countries of Natal 25 do not have nuclear | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
weapons. An independent Scotland... I asked if you would accept the | :30:00. | :30:08. | |
nuclear umbrella. The key feature of NATO's military dog train is now | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
clear shrike. We would accept the basis of which NATO is founded but | :30:15. | :30:22. | |
we would argue two things. We want Trident removed from Scotland rather | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
than have a situation where might we are spending ?100 billion over the | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
next generation replacing Trident and we would argue within the | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
international community that the world should move much more quickly | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
to rid itself of nuclear weapons. That is the principal position and | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
won the SNP has held consistently for many years. You would get rid of | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
one of the key parts of the NATO deterrent based in Scotland. You | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
would kick that out. You would not accept all of the club rules because | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
you do not like the idea of nuclear. Why would they like a member like | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
you in? Because Scotland is a significant part of the territory of | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
the North Atlantic. You do not subscribe to the rules. 25 of the | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
member states of NATO are non-nuclear members. You are saying | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
you do not follow the doctrine. NATO has said it wants to move away from | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
reliance on nuclear weapons. An independent Scotland would be | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
entering the majority mainstream of NATO as a country that did not have | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
nuclear weapons. By leading by example our moral authority and | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
encouraging others to do likewise would be increased. Money and oil, | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
the finance minister has said that an independent Scotland would | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
increase public spending by 3% a year. He would pay for that by | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
borrowing. Your First Minister says he is going to stash money in an oil | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
fund. You're going to borrow and save. How does that work? There are | :32:00. | :32:08. | |
two points. Firstly in terms of the outlook for finances and what is one | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
of the central debates of this referendum campaign, austerity that | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
we know will continue if we stay as part of the Westminster system | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
versus prosperity. The economy can afford a higher level of increase in | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
public spending while we continue to have deficit levels at a sustainable | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
level. What is the point of borrowing and saving at the same | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
time? People who have a mortgage and the savings account would not | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
themselves what the wisdom of that is. This is based on recommendations | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
of our expert fiscal Commission that as borrowing reduces to sustainable | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
levels it makes sense to start saving a proportion of our oil | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
wealth. In Norway, which has many similarities to Scotland, they have | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
an oil fund worth ?500 billion. Scotland is part of the Westminster | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
system is sitting on a share of UK debt. We can continue to allow our | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
oil wealth, our vast oil wealth, to be mismanaged or we can decide we | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
are going to manage that resource better in the years to come. Your | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
figures do not add up unless you are about oil prices and revenue and you | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
have been consistently wrong in your predictions. Last year you forecast | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
that revenues would be the .7 billion more than they actually work | :33:33. | :33:42. | |
-- 3.7 billion. The cost of the Scottish school system gone. There | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
were particular reasons for that in terms of interruption to production | :33:49. | :33:49. | |
and bigger levels of investment. and bigger levels of investment | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
Used ill have to find the money. Let me explain. They are based on robust | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
assumptions, firstly a production estimates that is in line with the | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
estimates of the oil and gas industry. Use of figures that are | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
based on production of 10 billion barrels of oil. Oil and gas has been | :34:08. | :34:15. | |
wrong as well. It is 24 billion left to be recovered. That is what is in | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
the UK Government's oil and gas strategy so production in line with | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
industry estimates and an oil price of $110 per barrel which is flat in | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
cash terms would be a real terms reduction. The Department of energy | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
is estimating $128 per barrel so our estimate compared to that is | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
cautious. These are robust estimates based on robust assumptions. Except | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
they have been wrong. Finally, we hear a lot from you and your fellow | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
nationalists, you want a Scandinavian style social democracy, | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
you know how to spend the money but you never tell us about social | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
democratic levels of taxation. Also should grizzlies have higher levels | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
of tax in Scotland does at the moment -- all social grizzlies. I | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
want a Scottish style of social democracy. Free education, free | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
medicines and balancing the books every single year. We want to get | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
more people into work in Scotland, raise the level of distribution in | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
the Labour market and make the economy more productive so we are | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
raising the overall tax revenue. Over the last 33 years we have | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
generated more taxpayer head of population than is the case and the | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
rest of the UK. Those last 33 years, some of those years oil prices would | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
have been high and in others they would have been law but we take | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
different decisions. A report showed that if we go as part of the | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
Westminster system down the plate -- route of replacing Trident then the | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
cost will be as high as ?4 billion every year. Our share of that is the | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
hundred million pounds a year. Let us get access to our own resources | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
so we can make different and better decisions about how to spend the | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
resources we have. You are promising Scandinavian style social democratic | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
levels of public spending but you say you will not need a top rate of | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
tax of 56% which is what Scandinavia has, that all 25%, which is what | :36:30. | :36:38. | |
Scandinavia has and VAT of 15%. You are going to have the spending but | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
none of the taxes that make it possible in Scandinavia. For | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
mischievous reasons you are met -- misrepresenting what I am saying. | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
The Scottish economy can afford it and we want to generate more wealth | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
in our economy. We want to use the existing resources Scotland has. We | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
are the 14th richest country in the world in terms of what we produce. | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
We do not want to be wasting resources. We want to be spending | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
resources on the things that other priority for the people of Scotland. | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
These are the benefits and the opportunities really get if we take | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
the opportunity of voting yes and becoming independent. | :37:22. | :37:32. | |
Hello unwelcome to the last Sunday Politics before the summer break. | :37:33. | :37:49. | |
After accidents in dark alldyways are blamed on Essex's streetlight | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
switch off, concerns that pdople are paying too high a price to cut the | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
council's energy bill. I went doctors yesterday. I've got to go | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
for an extra, she probably broken or fractured. And | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
our offshore industry independence referendum. New | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
investment has stalled whild the outcome is awaited. | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
Here with me this week, Bernard Jenkin, MP for the Conservatives, | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
the chair of the Public Administration Select Committee, | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
Administration Select Committee and labour's Gavin Shuker, Shadow | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
international development mhnister. international development minister. | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
I want to start by talking about the local growth fund. More than ?400 | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
million will come 175 million in the next year with | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
more money will help complete a number of | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
new relief roads, the along with other projects. So, Gavin | :38:59. | :39:06. | |
Shuker, airport, that is a good thing, isn't | :39:07. | :39:19. | |
it? Yes, and it shows you how RDA and put in the LDP. We think | :39:20. | :39:38. | |
that is the wrong agencies? The last time thex gave | :39:39. | :39:56. | |
out money,, this time before. These are led by business | :39:57. | :40:09. | |
people, assisted area status in Harwich and | :40:10. | :40:22. | |
Clacton, industry and things like th`t. So it | :40:23. | :40:37. | |
is a very different picture. in a much more dynamic way there. | :40:38. | :40:54. | |
Now, staying designed to cut Essex's eligibility. | :40:55. | :41:12. | |
Installing the system years time. Opposition to the | :41:13. | :41:31. | |
blackout is growing. There telling them to be careful where | :41:32. | :41:57. | |
they are walking because anyway. I don't drive and mx husband | :41:58. | :42:26. | |
and my son were having switch off but crime. The thieves | :42:27. | :43:01. | |
Kalex three separate times whilst stroke of 12... This happens, | :43:02. | :43:37. | |
leaving everyone different ages from all walks of | :43:38. | :44:17. | |
life that literally voluntary sector. I have to lock up | :44:18. | :45:12. | |
in the charges, the net saving over a ten | :45:13. | :46:13. | |
year here it is ?3 million. sum of ?6.5 million on a central | :46:14. | :47:11. | |
management system. suggest people are not feelhng safe | :47:12. | :48:11. | |
when the lights are off. It was introduction of this scheme. We, | :48:12. | :49:07. | |
unlike some the concern of the restaurant. The | :49:08. | :50:02. | |
important thing safety. If it were me, I wotldn t | :50:03. | :51:07. | |
want are far less likely to cont`ct their | :51:08. | :52:21. | |
MP and said I am 21 and I have of pounds of investment are on hold. | :52:22. | :53:31. | |
In the East, for that sector, a yes Clyde, but we do have deep water | :53:32. | :54:44. | |
ports. Looking at SLP, a local British government can to gdt | :54:45. | :56:00. | |
companies in, particularly politics is packed on Westmhnster | :56:01. | :57:08. | |
and people everywhere that we stay | :57:09. | :58:18. | |
together. We know conservatives in South Suffolk chose | :58:19. | :59:35. | |
a local will keep a bit safer. That is all | :59:36. | :00:34. | |
the time we have. So, plenty happening in Parliament | :00:35. | :00:47. | |
this coming week, including a controversial bill to make | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
so-called assisted dying legal and Lord Carey has intervened in the | :00:51. | :01:11. | |
assisted dying debate. Will it make a difference? It will make a | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
difference because we have established in the House of Lords, I | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
am not sure who they speak for and why they should have a privileged | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
position, but he was a big opponent and has made a change of heart. The | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
fact that the Daily Mail has printed this shows this is a big | :01:35. | :01:44. | |
intervention. The Bill being pushed through, is it now on the agenda? I | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
think it is. There are international examples of assisted dying | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
elsewhere. The state of Oregon passed a Bill similar to this in the | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
1990s and things have not got out of control. That has not been an | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
expansion or abuse. It has settled down and become part of the | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
furniture. That makes it easier for this Bill, to make the case for it. | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
Religious people may still have a principled objection but most other | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
people have a practical objection, which is how to put in place | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
safeguards to deal with unscrupulous relatives or anyone else who wants | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
to abuse this right? Once a controversial issue is only being | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
opposed for practical reasons it is on its way to getting its way. What | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
is the division, is it the Church against everybody else? Is it a | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
right and left division? What is stopping it? It is a very difficult | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
moral issue and there are people who can have genuinely held Christian | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
beliefs or non-Christian beliefs who can be on both sides. I think that | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
the Lord Carey intervention is potentially a game changer not just | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
because he is a former Archbishop of Canterbury but because he was on the | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
Evan Jellicoe side of the Church of England. That is quite a big move. | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
The response was to say, please withdraw your bell and let us have a | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
royal Commission. The Supreme Court kicked the ball back to Parliament | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
when they rejected the cases of three people who had been taking the | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
case and said, we could say that banning the right to life is against | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
the European Court of Human Rights, but it is a moral issue and an issue | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
for Parliament. Parliament needs to decide. The data act that is going | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
to be pushed through Parliament. decide. The data act that is going | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
to be pushed through Parliament In record time. To comply with a | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
European court judgement. Tom Watson and David Davis, some dissent. Are | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
you so prized with how united the establishment, left, right and | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
centre is? No. There is a great quote saying this has been enacted | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
under the something must be done act and that captures it exactly. Even | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
Cameron says he does not want to look people in the eye and say that | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
he did not do everything he could. There is no end to the power of | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
surveillance. It is all was about drawing a distinction. I am always | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
suspicious when politicians look something up and said, we have all | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
agreed. Are there at the centre is right or is the political | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
establishment right? I think the establishment is right. I think it | :04:45. | :04:53. | |
is stronger than other issues. We are in a unique position where all | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
three political parties have relatively recent experience of | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
government so they now that security threats are not made up by | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
unscrupulous people. The legislation being proposed is not dramatic, it | :05:06. | :05:15. | |
is to fill a gap that was created. I do not see the political | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
controversy. All three political parties support it. David Davis and | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
Liberty are against that, and always are. Would you not have expected... | :05:25. | :05:33. | |
The Lib Dems are in government, but a bit more rebellion on the Labour | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
backbenches? There is no political controversy put outside parliament | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
there's quite a lot of controversy about this. My paper has taken an | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
interest in this. It is interesting, it does not feel, it is not a | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
1950s, three public school boys setting, let us have this deal. The | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
Liberal Democrats and Labour have serious questions. There's going to | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
be a sunset clause that will run out in 2016. The Liberal Democrats, who | :06:09. | :06:17. | |
asked pretty tough questions, have said there are assurances. Ed | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Miliband did not go to public school. | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
For many English football fans, tonight's World Cup final presents | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
How do you pick between two traditional foes | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
Well, if you're a political obsessive, like these | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
three, you could always back the nation according to how it votes. | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
The website LabourList has produced a political guide to the tournament. | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
At the beginning of the tournament, it was a fairly balanced playing | :06:40. | :06:53. | |
field politically with 15 left wing and 17 right-wing countries. England | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
found themselves isolated in a group with three left-wing countries. That | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
was the least of their problems. was the least of their problems | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
There was a clear domination of democratic regimes over | :07:08. | :07:09. | |
authoritarian with only six of oratory and countries making it | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
through to the finals and the only all authoritarian tie was dubbed the | :07:13. | :07:22. | |
worst match of the World Cup. By the second round 16 teams remained. The | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
left had a clear advantage with nine, seven from the right and | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
authoritarian countries all but wiped out. Two representatives | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
remained. Both were beaten by European democracies. By the | :07:36. | :07:44. | |
semi-finals, all was even Stephen. A right-wing Protestant Europe taking | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
on Catholics South America. With one victory apiece, Germany knocking out | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
Brazil and Argentina beating the Dutch, tonight's final repeats that | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
pattern. Who will win? Angela Merkel's Germany or Argentina? | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
We're joined now by Britain's only Labour adviser | :08:11. | :08:12. | |
Should we read political significance in to the fact that the | :08:13. | :08:26. | |
only time England has won the World Cup was under a Labour government? | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
Of course. The problem is we did not qualify for Euro 2008 when it was a | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
Labour government. We have had some pretty shoddy results under a Labour | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
government. As someone under the left, are you backing Argentina? | :08:44. | :08:43. | |
left, are you backing Argentina Absolutely not. I do not think it | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
has anything to do with politics. It is a bit of fun. People should | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
choose it is Don Hoop plays the best football and the Germans have been | :09:00. | :09:01. | |
fantastic. They were great in 2 10 fantastic. They were great in 2010 | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
as well. They started this model in 2008 and that is the sort of thing | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
people should be supporting. Who should a Eurosceptic support? I | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
would not say Argentina because that is the country that has tried to | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
seize British sovereign territory within my lifetime. You were not | :09:21. | :09:28. | |
around for the Blitz. Believe it or not, I was not. There is a strong | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
political case to support Germany. They are probably going to win the | :09:34. | :09:45. | |
World Cup with a clear of -- with players of Polish origin. That sort | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
of cultural change they have forced themselves to go through... You talk | :09:50. | :09:57. | |
about them being right wing, but in fact the way that the German league | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
is structured, and I am an expert, is based on ownership. It is very | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
different from the Premier League. It is about football as a usual | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
good. The ticket prices are lower. The fans are involved in running the | :10:17. | :10:25. | |
club. It is a model that all English football clubs should emulate. | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Germany had a strong football team under centre right governments and | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
centre left governments and a coalition. A strong football team | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
and a strong economy. The Conservative MP who is the arch | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Eurosceptic wanted to get us out of the European Union and was for a few | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
weeks ago when people were making jokes about Jean-Claude Juncker, he | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
was outraged and said you should not do that, so he could happily support | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
Germany. What was interesting about the authoritarian and democratic | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
regimes, what is great is that the World Cup is run by this open and | :11:09. | :11:20. | |
democratic organisation Fifa. It is similar to the EU in many regards. | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
Two countries led by women. Maybe gender is the thing. We did not win | :11:27. | :11:35. | |
under Margaret Thatcher. There's one big difference with the EU, you | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
cannot flog six Dom Acta gets to go to a European summit. Did you know | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
that Italy won two world cups under Mussolini? Can we draw any | :11:49. | :11:58. | |
conclusions between a political system and the performance of the | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
football team? You can draw certain parallels between maybe national | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
cliches, so the Germans are efficient and effective, which might | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
reflect and the English are very polite so we let everyone score | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
first and go into the second round. We put ourselves at the back of the | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
queue. Is England going to qualify for the European? We are going to | :12:24. | :12:35. | |
win the European Championship. The first country Scotland have to play | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
is Germany. What could possibly go wrong? Who is going to win? Germany. | :12:39. | :12:52. | |
Germany. I am going to put a few bob on Argentina. Are you going to be | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
watching? Absolutely. Thank you. This is the last Sunday Politics | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
for the summer. But we'll be back in early autumn | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
and our first programme will be live from Scotland, | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
the weekend before the referendum The Daily Politics is back tomorrow | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
at noon and we'll bring you the last PMQs before the summer | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
on Wednesday morning from 11:30am. Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
it's the Sunday Politics, unless You have been selected to take part | :13:25. | :15:03. | |
in an antiques TV programme. | :15:04. | :15:10. |