Browse content similar to 12/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
David Davis tells MPs to leave the Brexit bill untouched, | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
ahead of a week which could see Britain begin the process | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
We'll talk to a Tory rebel and Ukip's Nigel Farage. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Phillip Hammond's first budget hit the rocks thanks to a tax rise | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
But how should we tax those who work for themselves? | :00:54. | :01:01. | |
And remember Donald Trump's claim that Barack Obama had ordered | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
We'll talk to the former Tory MP who set the whole story rolling. | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
Here: A North East Tory MP urges the Chancellor to abandon changes | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
And a council warns parks may have to close - | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
unless they're handed over to a charity to run. | :01:20. | :01:29. | |
And joining me for all of that, three self-employed journalists | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
who definitely don't deserve a tax break. | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer | :01:36. | :01:36. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme with all the carefree | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
abandon of Katie Hopkins before a libel trial. | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
BBC lawyers have suddenly got nervous! | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
So first today, the government is gearing up to trigger Article 50, | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
perhaps in the next 48 hours, and start negotiating Britain's | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
Much has been written about the prospect of the Commons | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
getting a "meaningful vote" on the deal Britain negotiates. | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
Brexit Secretary David Davis was on the Andrew Marr programme | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
earlier this morning and he was asked what happens | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
Well, that is what is called the most favoured nation status deal | :02:08. | :02:17. | |
There we go out, as it were, on WTO rules. | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
That is why of course we do the contingency planning, to make | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
The British people decided on June the 23rd last year | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
My job, and the job of the government, is to make | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
the terms on which that happens as beneficial as possible. | :02:38. | :02:48. | |
There we have it, clearly, either Parliament votes for the deal when | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
it is done or it out on World Trade Organisation rules. That's what the | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
government means by a meaningful vote. | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
I think we get over obsessed about whether there will be a legal right | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
for Parliament to have a vote. If there is no deal or a bad deal, I | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
think it would be politically impossible for the government to | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
reject Parliament's desire for a vote because the atmosphere of | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
politics will be completely different by then. I take David | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
Davies seriously. Within Whitehall he has acquired a reputation as | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
being the most conscientious and details sadly... And well briefed. | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
Absolutely and well travelled in terms of European capitals of the | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
three Brexit ministers. It is quite telling he said what he did and it | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
is quite telling that within cabinet, two weeks ago he was | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
floating the idea of no deal at all. Being if not the central estimate | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
than a completely plausible eventuality. It is interesting. I | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
would suggest the prospect of no deal is moving up the agenda. It is | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
still less likely than more likely to happen. But it's no longer a kind | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
of long tail way out there in the distance. Planning for no deal is | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
the same as having contents insurance or travel insurance, plan | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
for the worse case scenarios are prepared it happens. Even the worst | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
case scenario, it's not that bad. Think of the Jeep 20, apart from the | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
EU, four members of the G20 economies are successful members of | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
the EU. The rest aren't and don't have trade deals but somehow these | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
countries are prospering. They are growing at a higher rate. You are | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
not frightened? Not remotely. We are obsessed with what we get from the | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
EU and the key thing we get from leaving the EU is not the deal but | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
the other deals we can finally make with other trading partners. They | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
have higher growth than virtually every other EU country apart from | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
Germany. It is sensible as a negotiating position for the | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
government to say if there is no deal, we will accept there is no | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
deal. We're not frightened of no deal. It was clear from what David | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
Davies was saying that there will be a vote in parliament at the end of | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
the process but there won't be a third option to send the government | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
back to try to get a better deal. It is either the deal or we leave | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
without a deal. In reality, that third option will be there. We don't | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
know yet whether there will be a majority for the deal if they get | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
one. What we do know now is that there isn't a majority in the | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
Commons for no deal. Labour MPs are absolutely clear that no deal is | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
worth then a bad deal. I've heard enough Tory MPs say the same thing. | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
But they wouldn't get no deal through. When it comes to this vote, | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
if whatever deal is rejected, there will then be, one way or another, | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
the third option raised of go back again. But who gets to decide what | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
is a bad deal? The British people will have a different idea than the | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
two thirds of the Remain supporting MPs in the Commons. In terms of the | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
vote, the Commons. Surely, if the Commons, which is what matters here, | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
if the Commons were to vote against the deal as negotiated by the | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
government, surely that would trigger a general election? If the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
government had recommended the deal, surely the government would then, if | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
it still felt strongly about the deal, if the other 27 had said, | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
we're not negotiating, extending it, it would in effect become a second | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
referendum on the deal. In effect it would be a no-confidence vote in the | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
government. You've got to assume that unless something massively | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
changes in the opposition before then, the government would feel | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
fairly confident about a general election on those terms. Unless the | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
deal is hideously bad and obviously basso every vote in the country... | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
The prior minister said if it is that bad she would have rather no | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
deal. So that eventuality arrives. -- the Prime Minister has said. Not | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
a second referendum general election in two years' time. Don't put any | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
holidays for! LAUGHTER -- don't look any. | :06:57. | :06:58. | |
So the Brexit bill looks likely to clear Parliament this week. | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
That depends on the number of Conservative MPs who are prepared | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
to vote against their government on two key issues. | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
Theresa May could be in negotiations with our European | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
partners within days, but there may be some | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
wheeler-dealings she has to do with her own MPs, too. | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
Cast your mind back to the beginning of month. | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
The bill to trigger Article 50 passed comfortably | :07:20. | :07:21. | |
But three Conservatives voted for Labour's amendments to ensure | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
the rights of EU citizens already in the UK. | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
Seven Tory MPs voted to force the government to give Parliament | :07:35. | :07:36. | |
a say on the deal struck with the EU before it's finalised. | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
But remember those numbers, they're important. | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
On the issue of a meaningful vote on a deal, I'm told there might have | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
been more rebels had it not been for this assurance from | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
I can confirm that the government will bring forward a motion | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
on the final agreement to be approved by both Houses | :07:58. | :07:59. | |
And we expect, and intend, that this will happen before | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
the European Parliament debates and votes on the final agreement. | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
When the government was criticised for reeling back | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
from when and what it would offer a vote on. | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
The bill then moved into the Lords, where peers passed it | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
And the second, that Parliament be given a meaningful vote on the terms | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
of the deal or indeed a vote in the event of there | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
The so-called Brexit bill will return to Commons | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
Ministers insist that both amendments would weaken | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
the government's negotiating hand and are seeking to overturn them. | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
But, as ever, politics is a numbers game. | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
Theresa May has a working majority of 17. | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
On Brexit, though, it's probably higher. | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
At least six Labour MPs generally vote with | :08:57. | :08:58. | |
Plus, eight DUP MPs, two from the Ulster Unionist party | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
If all Conservatives vote with the government as well, | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
Therefore, 26 Conservative rebels are needed for the government to be | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
So, are there rough waters ahead for Theresa May? | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
What numbers are we looking at, in terms of a potential rebellion? | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
I think we're looking at a large number of people who are interested | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
This building is a really important building. | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
It's symbolic of a huge amount of history. | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
And for it not to be involved in this momentous time would, | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
But he says a clear verbal statement from the government on a meaningful | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
vote on any deal would be enough to get most Tory MPs onside. | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
It was already said about David Jones. | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
It's slightly unravelled a little bit during | :09:52. | :09:52. | |
I think this is an opportunity to really get that clarity | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
through so that we can all vote for Article 50 and get | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
We've have spoken to several Tory MPs who say they are minded to vote | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
One said the situation was sad and depressing. | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
The other said that the whips must be worried because they don't | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
A minister told me Downing Street was looking again at the possibility | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
of offering a vote in the event of no deal being reached. | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
But that its position was unlikely to change. | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
And, anyway, government sources have told the Sunday Politics they're not | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
That those Tory MPs who didn't back either amendment the first time | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
round would look silly if they did, this time. | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
It would have to be a pretty hefty lot of people changing their minds | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
about things that have already been discussed in quite a lot of detail, | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
last time it was in the Commons, for things to be reversed this time. | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
There's no doubt that a number of Tory MPs are very concerned. | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
Labour are pessimistic about the chances of enough Tory | :10:52. | :10:53. | |
rebels backing either of the amendments in the Commons. | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
The important thing, I think, is to focus on the fact | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
that this is the last chance to have a say on this. | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
If they're going to vote with us, Monday is the time to do it. | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Assuming the bill does pass the Commons unamended, | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
it will go back to the Lord's on Monday night where Labour peers | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
have already indicated they won't block it again. | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
It means that the Brexit bill would become law and Theresa May | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
would be free to trigger Article 50 within days. | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
Her own deadline was the end of this month. | :11:23. | :11:24. | |
But one minister told me there were advantages to doing it early. | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
We're joined now from Nottingham by the Conservative MP Anna Soubry. | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
She's previously voted against the government on the question | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
of whether Parliament should have a final say over the EU deal. | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
Anna Soubry, I think it was clear this morning from David Davies that | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
what he means by meaningful vote is not what you mean by a meaningful | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
vote. He thinks the choice for Parliament would be to either vote | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
for the deal and if Parliament doesn't, we leave on World Trade | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
Organisation rules, on a bare-bones structure. In the end, will he | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
accept that in the Commons tomorrow? No, because my problem and I don't | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
think it is a problem, but my problem, the government's problem is | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
that what I want is then to answer this question. What happens in the | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
event of their not being any deal? David Davies made it very clear that | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
in the event of there being no deal, Parliament would have no say. It | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
means through your elected representatives, the people of this | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
country would have no say on what happens if the government doesn't | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
get a deal. I think the request that Parliament should have a say on | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
Parliamentary sovereignty, is perfectly reasonable. That is what I | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
want David to say. If he says that, I won't be rebelling. If he does... | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
They have refused to say that. Sorry. If he continues to say what | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
he said the BBC this morning, which means that the vote will be either | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
to accept the as negotiated or to leave on WTO rules, will you rebel | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
on that question but no, no, sorry, if there's a deal, Parliament will | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
have a say. So that's fine. And we will see what the deal is and we | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
will look at the options two years down the road. When who knows | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
what'll happen in our economy and world economy. That is one matter | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
which I am content on. The Prime Minister, a woman of her word has | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
said that in the event of a deal, Parliament will vote on any deal. I | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
don't difficulty. To clarify, I will come onto that. These are important | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
matters. I want to clarify, not argue with you. You are content that | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
if there is a deal, we will come under no deal in a second, but if | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
there is a deal, you are content with the choice of being able to | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
vote for that deal or leaving on WTO terms? No, you're speculating as to | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
what might happen in two years' time. What the options might be. | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
Personally I find it inconceivable that the government will come back | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
with a rubbish deal. They will either come back with a good deal, | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
which I won't have a problem with or they will come back with no deal. To | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
speculate about coming back with a deal, there is a variety of options. | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
I understand that that is what the Lord amendments are about. They are | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
about a vote at the end of the process. Do forgive me, the Lords | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
amendment is not the same that I've voted for in Parliament. What we | :14:26. | :14:27. | |
call the Chris Leslie amendment, which was talking about whatever the | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
agreement is, whatever happens at the end of the negotiations, | :14:32. | :14:33. | |
Parliament will have a vote. Parliament will have a say. The | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
Lords amendment is a bit more technical. It is the principle of no | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
deal that is agitating us. Let's clarify on this. They are | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
complicated matters. What do you want the government to say? What do | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
you want David Davis to say tomorrow on what should the Parliamentary | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
process should be if there is no deal? Quite. I want a commitment | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
from him that in the event of no deal, it will come into Parliament | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
and Parliament will determine what happens next. It could be that in | :15:04. | :15:11. | |
the event of no deal, the best thing is for us to jump off the cliff into | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
WTO tariff is. I find it unlikely but that might be the reality. There | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
might be other alternatives. Most importantly, including saying to the | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
government, go back, carry on. The question that everybody has to ask | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
is, why won't the government give My fear is what this is about is | :15:25. | :15:36. | |
asked deliberately, not the Prime Minister, but others deliberately | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
ensuring we have no deal and no deal pretty soon and in that event, we | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
jumped off the cliff onto WTO tariffs and nobody in this country | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
and the people of this country do not have a say. My constituents did | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
not vote for hard Brexit. You do not want the government to | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
have the ability if there is no deal to automatically fall back on the | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
WTO rules? Quite. It is as simple as that. We are now speculating about | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
what will happen in two years. I want to find out what happens | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
tomorrow. What will you do if you don't get that assurance? I will | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
either abstain, or I will vote to keep this amendment within the Bill. | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
I will either vote against my government, which I do not do | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
likely, I have never voted against my government until the Chris Leslie | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
clause when the Bill was going through, or I will abstain, which | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
has pretty much the same effect because it comes into the Commons | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
with both amendments so you have positively to vote to take the map. | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
Can you give us an idea of how many like-minded conservative colleagues | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
there are. I genuinely do not know. You must talk to each other. I do | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
not talk to every member of my party. You know people who are | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
like-minded. I do. I am not doing numbers games. I know you want that | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
but I genuinely do not know the figure. I think this is an | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
uncomfortable truth. People have to understand what has happened in our | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
country, two particular newspapers, creating an atmosphere and setting | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
an agenda and I think many people are rather concerned, some | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
frightened, to put their head over the parapet. There are many millions | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
of people who feel totally excluded from this process. Many of them | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
voted to remain. And they have lost their voice. We have covered the | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
ground I wanted to. We're joined now by the Ukip MEP | :17:45. | :17:45. | |
and former leader Nigel Farage. Article 50 triggered, we are leaving | :17:46. | :17:57. | |
the EU, the single market and the customs union. What is left you to | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
complain about? All of that will happen and hopefully we will get the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
triggered this week which is good news. What worries me a little I'm | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
not sure the government recognises how strong their handers. At the | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
summit in Brussels, the word in the corridors is that we are prepared to | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
give away fishing waters as a bargaining chip and the worry is | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
what deal we get. Are we leaving, yes I am pleased about that. You are | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
under relevant voice in the deal because the deal will be voted on in | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
Parliament and you have one MP. You are missing the point, the real vote | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
in parliament is not in London but Strasbourg. This is perhaps the | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
biggest obstacle the British Government faces. Not what happens | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
in the Commons that the end of the two years, the European Parliament | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
could veto the deal. What that means is people need to adopt a different | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
approach. We do not need to be lobbying in the corridors of | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
Brussels to get a good deal, we need is a country to be out there talking | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
to the German car workers and Belgian chocolate makers, putting as | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
much pressure as we can on politicians from across Europe to | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
come to a sensible arrangement. It is in their interests more than | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
ours. In what way is the vision of Brexit set out by David Davis any | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
different from your own? I am delighted there are people now | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
adopting the position I argued for many years. Good. But now... Like | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
Douglas Carswell, he said he found David Davis' performers this morning | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
reassuring. It is. And just as when Theresa May was Home Secretary every | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
performance she gave was hugely reassuring. She was seen to be a | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
heroine after her conference speeches and then did not deliver. I | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
am concerned that even before we start we are making concessions. You | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
described in the EU's divorce bill demands, 60 billion euros is floated | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
around. You said it is laughable and I understand that. Do you maintain | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
that we will not have to pay a penny to leave? It is nine months since we | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
voted exit and assuming the trigger of Article 50, we would have paid 30 | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
billion in since we had a vote. We are still members. But honestly, I | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
do not think there is an appetite for us to pay a massive divorce | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
Bill. There are assets also. Not a penny? There will be some ongoing | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
commitments, but the numbers talked about our 50, ?60 billion, they are | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
frankly laughable. I am trying to find out if you are prepared to | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
accept some kind of exit cost, it may be nowhere near 60 billion. We | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
have to do a net agreement, the government briefed about our share | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
of the European Union investment bank. Would you accept a | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
transitional arrangement, deal, five, ten billion, as part of the | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
divorce settlement? We are painted net ?30 million every single day at | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
the moment, ?10 billion plus every year. That is just our contribution. | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
We are going to make a massive saving on this. What do you make of | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
what Anna Soubry said, that if there is no deal, and it is being talked | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
about more. Maybe the government managing expectations. There is an | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
expectation we will have a deal, but if there is no deal, that the | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
government cannot just go to WTO rules, but it has to have a vote in | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
parliament? By the time we get to that there will be a general | :21:48. | :21:49. | |
election coming down the tracks and I suspect that if at the end of the | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
two-year process there is no deal and by the way, no deal is a lot | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
better for the nation than where we currently are, because we freed of | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
regulations and able to make our own deals in the world. I think what | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
would happen, and if Parliament said it did not back, at the end of the | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
negotiation a general election would happen quickly. According to reports | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
this morning, one of your most senior aides has passed a dossier to | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
police claiming Tories committed electoral fraud in Thanet South, the | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
seat contested in the election. What evidence to you have? I read that in | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
the newspapers as you have. I am not going to comment on it. Will you not | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
aware of the contents of the dossier? I am not aware of the | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
dossier. He was your election strategists. I am dubious as to | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
whether this dossier exists at all. Perhaps the newspapers have got this | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
wrong. Concerns about the downloading of data the took place | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
in that constituency, there are. Allegedly, he has refuted it, was it | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
done by your MP to give information to the Tories, do you have evidence | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
about? We have evidence Mr Carswell downloaded information, we have no | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
evidence what he did with it. It is not just your aide who has been | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
making allegations against the Conservatives in Thanet South and | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
other seats, if the evidence was to be substantial, and if it was to | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
result in another by-election being called an Thanet South had to be | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
fought again, would you be the Ukip candidate? I probably would. You | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
probably would? Yes. Just probably? Just probably. It would be your | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
eighth attempt. Winning seats in parliament under first past the post | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
is not the only way to change politics in Britain and I would like | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
to think I proved that. Let's go back to Anna Soubry. The implication | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
of what we were saying on the panel at the start of the show and what | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
Nigel Farage was saying there would be that if at the end of the process | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
whatever the vote, if the government were to lose it, it would provoke a | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
general election properly. I think that would be right. Let's get real. | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
The government is not going to come to Parliament with anything other | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
than something it believes is a good deal and if it rejected it, would be | :24:32. | :24:40. | |
unlikely, there would be a de facto vote of no confidence and it would | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
be within the fixed term Parliaments act and that be it. The problem is, | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
more likely, because of the story put up about the 50 billion, 60 | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
billion and you look at the way things are flagged up that both the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
Prime Minister and Boris Johnson saying, we should be asking them for | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
money back, I think the big fear and the fear I have is we will be | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
crashing out in six months. You think we could leave as quickly as | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
six months. Explain that. I think they will stoke up the demand from | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
the EU for 50, 60 billion back and my real concern is that within six | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
months, where we're not making much progress, maybe nine months, and | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
people are getting increasingly fed up with the EU because they are told | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
it wants unreasonable demands, and then the crash. I think what is | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
happening is the government is putting in place scaffolding at the | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
bottom of the cliff to break our fall when we come to fall off that | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
cliff and I think many in government are preparing not for a two-year | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
process, but six, to nine months, off the cliff, out we go. That is my | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
fear. That is interesting. I have not heard that express before by | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
someone in your position. I suspect you have made Nigel Farage's date. | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
It is a lovely thought. I would say to Anna Soubry she is out of date | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
with this. 40 years ago there was a good argument for joining the common | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
market because tariffs around the world was so high. That has changed | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
with the World Trade Organisation. We are leaving the EU and rejoining | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
a great big world and it is exciting. She was giving an | :26:26. | :26:34. | |
interesting perspective on what could happen in nine months rather | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
than two years. I thank you both. It was Philip Hammond's first | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
budget on Wednesday - billed as a steady-as-she-goes | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
affair, but turned out to cause uproar after the Chancellor appeared | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
to contradict a Tory manifesto commitment with an increase | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
in national insurance contributions. The aim was to address what some see | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
as an imbalance in the tax system, where employees pay | :26:54. | :27:02. | |
more National Insurance The controversy centres | :27:03. | :27:03. | |
on increasing the so-called class 4 rate for the self-employed who make | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
a profit of more than ?8,060 a year. It will go up in stages | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
from 9% to 11% in 2019. The changes mean that over one | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
and a half million will pay on average ?240 a year | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
more in contributions. Some Conservative MPs were unhappy, | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
with even the Wales Minister saying: "I will apologise to every | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
voter in Wales that read the Conservative manifesto | :27:32. | :27:33. | |
in the 2015 election." The Sun labelled Philip | :27:34. | :27:35. | |
Hammond "spite van man". The Daily Mail called the budget | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
"no laughing matter". By Thursday, Theresa May | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
said the government One of the first things I did | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
as Prime Minister was to commission Matthew Taylor to review the rights | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
and protections that were available to self-employed workers | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
and whether they should be enhanced. People will be able to look | :27:57. | :27:58. | |
at the government paper when we produce it, showing | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
all our changes, and take And, of course, the Chancellor will | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
be speaking, as will his ministers, to MPs, businesspeople and others | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
to listen to the concerns. Well, the man you heard mentioned | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
there, Matthew Taylor, has the job of producing | :28:14. | :28:15. | |
a report into the future Welcome. The Chancellor has decided | :28:16. | :28:28. | |
the self-employed should pay almost the same in National Insurance, not | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
the same but almost, as the employed will stop what is left of your | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
commission? The commission has a broader frame of reference and we | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
are interested in the quality of work in the economy at the heart of | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
what I hope will be proposing is a set of shifts that will improve the | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
quality of that work so we have an economy where all work is fair and | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
decent and all jobs give people scope for development and | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
fulfilment. The issue of taxes a small part. You will cover that? We | :29:00. | :29:08. | |
will, because the tax system and employment regulation system drive | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
particular behaviours in our labour market. You approve I think of the | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
general direction of this policy of raising National Insurance on the | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
self-employed. Taxing them in return perhaps for more state benefits. Why | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
are so many others on the left against it from Tim Farron to John | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
McDonnell? Tax rises are unpopular and it is the role of the opposition | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
parties to make capital from unpopular tax rises. I think as tax | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
rises go this is broadly progressive. There are self-employed | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
people on low incomes and they will be better off. It is economic league | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
rational because the reason for the difference in National Insurance -- | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
economically. It was to do with state entitlements. The government | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
is consulting about paid parental leave. A series of governments have | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
not been good about thinking about medium sustainability of the tax | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
base. Self-employment is growing. But it is eroding the tax base. It | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
is important to address those issues. A number of think tanks have | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
said this is a progressive move. Yet, a number of left-wing | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
politicians have been against it. And a number of Tories have said | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
this is a progressive move and not a Tory government move, the balance of | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
you will pay more tax, but you will get more state benefits is not a | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
Tory approach to things. That a Tory approach will be you will pay less | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
tax but entitled to fewer benefits as well. | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
I preferred in and policies to politics -- I prefer policies. When | :30:45. | :30:54. | |
people look at the policy and when they look the fact that there is no | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
real historical basis for that big national insurance differential, | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
they see it is a sensible policy. I don't have to deal with the | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
politics. There has been a huge growth in self-employment from the | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
turn of the millennium. It's been strongest amongst older workers, | :31:10. | :31:10. | |
women part-timers. Do you have any idea, do you have | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
the data in your commission that could tell us how many are taking | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
self-employment because they like the flexibility and they like the | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
tax advantages that come with it, too, or they are being forced into | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
it by employers who don't want the extra costs of employment? Do we | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
know the difference? We do, broadly. Most surveys on self-employment and | :31:37. | :31:43. | |
flexible forms of employment suggest about two thirds to three quarters | :31:44. | :31:45. | |
enjoy it, they like the flexibility, they like the autonomy and about a | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
third to one quarter are less happy. That tends to be because they would | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
like to have a full-time permanent job. It is not necessary that they | :31:55. | :31:56. | |
don't enjoy what they are doing, they would like to do other things. | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
And some of the protections that come with it? Yes. There are some | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
people who are forced into southern employees by high-risk but also some | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
people feel like they can't get a proper job as it were. -- | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
self-employment by people who hire them. It is on the narrow matter of | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
tax revenues but if you are employed on ?32,000 the state will take over | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
?6,000 in national insurance contributions, that is quite chunky. | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
If you are self-employed it is ?2300. But the big difference | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
between those figures isn't what the employee is paying, it's the | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
employer's contributions up to almost 14%, and cupped for as much | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
as you are paid. What do you do about employers' contributions for | :32:43. | :32:51. | |
the self employed? -- it is uncapped for as much. What I recommend is | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
that we should probably move from taxing employment to taxing labour. | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
We should probably have a more level playing field so it doesn't really | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
matter... Explained that I thought it was the same thing. If you are a | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
self-employed gardener, you are a different tax regime to a gardener | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
who works for a gardening firm. On the individual side and on the firm | :33:13. | :33:20. | |
side. As we see new business models, so-called gig working, partly with | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
technology, we need a more level playing field saying that we're | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
taxing people's work, not the form in which they deliver that. That is | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
part of the reason we have seen the growth of particular business | :33:34. | :33:35. | |
models. They are innovative and creative and partly driven by the | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
fact that if you can describe yourself as self-employed there are | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
tax advantages. Coming out in June? Will you come back and talk to us? | :33:45. | :33:46. | |
Yes. We say goodbye to viewers | :33:47. | :33:48. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
we'll be talking to the former Tory MP who was the root | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
of Donald Trump's allegation Hello and a warm welcome | :33:59. | :34:11. | |
to your local part of the show. This weekend, has the Government's | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
budget delivered for I'll be asking Labour's Chief Whip, | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
the Newcastle East MP Nick Brown and Northumberland Conservative | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
councillor Wayne Daley. Also, Victorian civic | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
pride built our parks - but today's councils say they just | :34:26. | :34:33. | |
can't afford to look after them. Has Newcastle come | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
up with a solution? And we'll have the very latest | :34:37. | :34:37. | |
on the issue that dominated the Copeland by-election - | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
the future of Not a great deal that was directed | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
purely at the North - apart from money for | :34:44. | :34:52. | |
some road improvements. But there were plenty | :34:53. | :34:53. | |
of talking points. Plans for specialist maths schools | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
and investment in skills were both warmly welcomed | :34:56. | :34:57. | |
by Berwick's Conservative MP But she put herself at the forefront | :34:58. | :34:59. | |
of those urging the Chancellor to think again about his | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
National Insurance increase For me the self-employed | :35:04. | :35:05. | |
are the seeds of future growth, they are not being paid their wages | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
at the end of the week or month, they are taking all the risk | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
themselves and my concern is that we are looking to fill | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
a difficult challenge with the pension pot, | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
everyone is living longer and that's great but there's a big pension bill | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
coming and I am concerned that the Treasury is trying | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
to squeeze money out of the core group who are doing the most | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
important job in our economy, Wayne Daley, given the National | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
Insurance change seems to have annoyed some Conservative MPs | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
and upset some of your natural allies in the press, | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
was it a mistake? I think what it shows is that no | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
government has got a magic wand to get everything right | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
and when I heard this proposal I was concerned and I think | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
it was more of the presentation. The principle is the right one that | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
as people who are self-employed get some of the benefits they had not | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
had like a public pension, maybe they should contribute more | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
but I think the presentation Presentation isn't going to matter | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
to the white van man who finds ?400 We're talking about a few hundred | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
pounds contribution for something that will benefit them for thousands | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
over a period of years, but the principle that the people | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
who are the bedrock, as Anne-Marie Trevelyan rightly | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
said, the bedrock of our economy, have helped to grow the economy, | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
to feel they are being singled out, I think the policy needs to be | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
looked at, and it will be part of a review later on but we have | :36:37. | :36:45. | |
to accept that this country will grow on the back of the one man | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
bands and the people who are working in the private sector and we have | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
to encourage them and do everything we can to stimulate that part | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
of the economy. Nick Brown, this is | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
an acknowledgement that the tax system is changing, more people | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
are self-employed these days, more self-employed are getting these | :37:05. | :37:06. | |
benefits they didn't use to get, you can imagine a Labour Chancellor | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
doing this, couldn't you? No, I could imagine | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
a Labour Chancellor having the study on the relationship | :37:13. | :37:14. | |
between National Insurance benefits and the self-employed first and then | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
looking at the National Insurance rates adjustments afterwards | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
in the light of the study. It's grotesquely unfair | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
to have the tax imposed first It would be better if the study came | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
first and then the results were put in front of Parliament | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
with consequential tax But you accept there is a principle | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
here that needs looking at. Yes, but I would look | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
at it first and then make But you're not saying | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
that the self-employed It is grossly unfair to say people | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
should be taxed extra and then study whether or not they should | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
have been afterwards. How does that fit in | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
with your party's policy It fits in nicely with our party's | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
policy because if people should pay more it should be those who are best | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
placed to pay more and that doesn't mean across the board tax | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
increases for the self-employed. Wayne Daley, Speadsheet Phil wanted | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
a boring budget, for the north There was so little in there | :38:21. | :38:29. | |
specifically for the North. It was the last spring | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
budget we will have, there will be a proper budget later | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
in the year, so it was to set the scene and the parameters around | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
what Brexit can mean and employment There are elements which will impact | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
across the country, he mentioned education, | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
an extra ?10 billion in terms of the infrastructure | :38:46. | :38:47. | |
of schools, that is good. Where are the bold and brave | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
moves ahead of Brexit? I accept he is keeping a pot | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
of money if things go wrong but the infrastructure that | :38:54. | :39:02. | |
could have helped? When Labour left power in 2010 | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
Britain was the 33rd in the world in terms | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
of infrastructure investment. This government has | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
committed billions of Go onto the streets, | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
you will see things being built, roads being improved, | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
and that's good, we need The true figures for the North, | :39:19. | :39:20. | |
the northern powerhouse got one mention in the budget, | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
it gets three paragraphs in the Budget Red Book, | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
the only thing that's for certain is there may be a bit more transport | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
infrastructure investment in the long-term programme | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
of the Department for It's not clear to me | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
that the current Chancellor even has the previous Chancellor's commitment | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
to the northern powerhouse. There is no industrial | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
investment set out at all. Cutting corporation tax to 17%, | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
it was 28% under Labour, that's a commitment to businesses | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
in the North East. How many people up here are worried | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
about the rates of corporation tax? Jeremy Corbyn's response | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
to the budget, a lot of people say it was just a list of things | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
he didn't like. Was there a sense of | :40:13. | :40:14. | |
an alternative vision? I'm very proud to be in a party that | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
has a leader that wants to stand up for the poor and dispossessed | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
and we didn't hear much about their needs and concerns | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
in the budget statement. At least we know it's not | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
a pre-election budget statement, Well, at the end of his Budget | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
speech, the Chancellor also laid down the Conservatives' claim to be | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
the party of the NHS, pointing to the Tories' success | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
in the recent Copeland by-election. But as Bob Cooper reports, | :40:39. | :40:40. | |
the problems facing the NHS in West Cumbria - | :40:41. | :40:42. | |
and elsewhere - aren't going away. As the voters of Copeland | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
so clearly understood, A bold claim by a Chancellor | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
after a campaign in which the Tories pledged to fight for the NHS and now | :40:51. | :40:59. | |
need to deliver. I would like to take this | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
opportunity to thank the people of Copeland for voting for me, | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
for having faith in me. The Conservatives may be riding high | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
politically after their victory over Labour in Copeland | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
but in the meantime the problems of the country haven't gone away | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
with increasing pressures on services like these | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
at the West Cumberland Hospital. This week crucial decisions | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
were made on the future of Cumbrian health services facing a shortage | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
of cash and staff. Some like small community hospitals | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
will see the cutbacks many feared but much-valued maternity care | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
in Copeland led by consultants was saved for the time being, | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
allowing a review to take place. The decision yesterday, | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
it was encouraging for me because it gives us a window of opportunity | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
to make sure we recruit What the review will do | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
is by being able to work with the Royal College | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
of Anaesthetists, will identify I'll be hands on making sure we work | :42:02. | :42:03. | |
with the community, staff, We don't want a review, | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
we want a proper plan. I've been asking for a recruitment | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
plan for the past 12 months. It's been since the Coalition | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
Government came in in 2010 we have seen trusts getting into the red, | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
before they were all in the black across the country, now | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
they are pretty much all in the red And that, say experts, | :42:32. | :42:33. | |
is because demand is rising This is the government's challenge | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
as there are many more Copelands Well, the Budget did | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
offer some solutions It came in the form of extra money | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
to place GPs into accident and emergency units to reduce | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
waiting times - and ?2 billion of new funding over three | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
years for social care. That money for social care | :42:58. | :42:59. | |
which hopefully helps to free up hospital beds being blocked by older | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
people and a commitment to look at a long-term | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
solution, fair enough? I welcome the money announced | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
in the Budget but it isn't enough. The scale of the problem is much | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
larger than the general announcement in the Budget, | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
I'm not sure what the distribution arrangements will be for that | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
but the need for social care and the local government | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
which will have to bear the brunt of this are not evenly spread | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
and so for authorities like urban ones in the north-east, | :43:30. | :43:37. | |
they will end up with more to do That's the point, this | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
will not be enough money. For our councils in particular, | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
they can raise council tax as Northumberland is to pay | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
for social care, but because they raise less council tax | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
here than in southern authorities, it will lead to inadequate care | :43:53. | :43:54. | |
and a strain on local services. There clearly is an issue | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
with social care in this country. Over a million people rely on that | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
and I think the money the government We need to go further and one | :44:01. | :44:15. | |
thing I would want to see is that we have a Royal commission | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
on the NHS and social care. We've been here before and we had | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
Royal commissions and politicians The NHS has turned into | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
a political ping-pong. Five years, a new government, | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
things change. We've got to realise that this | :44:32. | :44:32. | |
is an asset for this country. The last Royal commission we had | :44:33. | :44:41. | |
on the NHS was in '75 and it looked We have to have dialogue | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
with the British people because when it was set up | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
it was set up to deal We now deal with bunions | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
to brain surgery. A dialogue would be | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
introducing charging We need to have a discussion | :44:58. | :44:59. | |
with the public to look at what we can do to make | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
sure our NHS is fit for the future. I want an NHS free at the point | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
of delivery, I use the NHS, my children were born in the NHS, | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
it's something I am passionate about but we have to accept | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
as an ageing population we need to trust people to take part | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
in a dialogue but the essence is free, I don't want | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
a private NHS service. Labour's solution is always to throw | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
extra billions at these problems whether it's social care or the NHS | :45:27. | :45:33. | |
but there are better ways of working which are being tried | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
in Northumberland, bringing councils and the NHS together, | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
and that idea of putting GPs in A, there are things you can do before | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
you reach for more taxpayers' money. No, the problem is so severe that it | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
will require more money The demographic pressures | :45:46. | :45:47. | |
are in the opposite direction, we are living longer, | :45:48. | :45:54. | |
growing older, these ought to be good things but for people that can | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
no longer quite look after themselves, there is a need | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
for help and assistance, social care and that has | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
to be provided. But given the NHS is such a trump | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
card for your party, with strains in the system, | :46:07. | :46:18. | |
why isn't it turning At the Copeland by-election, | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
the NHS was a huge issue I was over there doing my little bit | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
to try to help us win, we didn't and I congratulate | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
the Conservative Party on their victory but on the health | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
service people were clear Why weren't they convinced your | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
party was the answer to that? There isn't even good | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
neighbouring provision, it's a two-hour bus journey | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
away, in Carlisle. Why didn't they conclude | :46:47. | :46:48. | |
Labour was the party A range of reasons and the | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
postmortem has been much explored but I don't think it had anything | :46:53. | :47:11. | |
to do with the health service. Wayne Daley, a lot of people say | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
the NHS is under unprecedented strain and the government | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
is in denial because they aren't talking about this commission, | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
they are just throwing a bit Money is in real terms by 2020 | :47:24. | :47:25. | |
there will be an extra ?10 billion. If you look at the spending | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
line, it's pretty flat. There is a clear issue | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
within the NHS and part of the issue is that A departments | :47:33. | :47:39. | |
are being used by some people who could go to a pharmacist | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
so that is why the ?100 million in the third front line | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
triage services there to move people out of A, | :47:52. | :47:53. | |
stopping that system We will see what that delivers | :47:54. | :47:55. | |
in the next few weeks and months. Now, it's not all been | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
about the Budget this week. There's been controversial plans | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
to develop Northumberland Council's Here's Bob with that - | :48:06. | :48:07. | |
and the rest of the week's news Plans to build a retail park, | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
200 homes and a school on the site of Northumberland county council | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
headquarters in Morpeth have been Business Secretary Greg Clark met | :48:16. | :48:17. | |
employers and trade unions from the north-east to discuss | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
Brexit. The future of Nissan | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
and Hitachi were on the agenda. Calls to give the Coast | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
to Coast Walk the status could boost the region's | :48:33. | :48:35. | |
tourism and business. Middlesbrough South MP | :48:36. | :48:37. | |
Tom Blenkinsop gave his support to the debate led by Conservative MP | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
for Richmond Rishi Sunak. Texas has oil, Australia has gold | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
mines and North Yorkshire Of course North Yorkshire, | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
the Esk Valley, Cleveland had Part of the route that | :48:47. | :48:55. | |
the honourable gentleman is talking about includes historic sites | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
like Kildare, Rosedale, And tax on cigarettes | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
went up in the budget but the north-east is still the area | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
with the most smokers. Now, the Victorians created them | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
as precious green spaces But today, the cost of running | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
of our parks is becoming a struggle In Newcastle they believe | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
the solution is to transfer parks to a charitable trust - | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
a model that's only been tried But as Luke Walton reports, | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
not everybody is convinced it's Saltwell Park in Gateshead, | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
dating back to Victorian times, has been at the centre of local | :49:34. | :49:43. | |
life for generations. Turning the clock forward | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
more than 70 years, the view here at Saltwell Park | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
is still very recognisable and though the crowds aren't out | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
today, green spaces like these are still hugely valued by local | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
people, still vital to our sense of well-being but in an age | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
of austerity, protecting places like this is becoming | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
an increasing problem. In neighbouring Newcastle, | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
parks have been the victim The man in charge says | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
without a radical rethink My personal opinion is that | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
over the next few years maintenance will slip | :50:21. | :50:34. | |
so much that we will have to close some parks | :50:35. | :50:36. | |
because they won't be safe. That's not an option, | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
that's what we won't do but that would be the consequence | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
of doing nothing. Newcastle Council's solution | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
is to consult on plans to transfer parks and allotments | :50:48. | :50:49. | |
to a charitable trust. Sunderland is also | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
considering the idea. One place where local parks | :50:52. | :50:53. | |
are already in the hands There are advantages | :50:54. | :50:55. | |
in having a trust dedicated to looking after parks, | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
we are not up against demands where all the income is ring-fenced | :51:03. | :51:14. | |
used back in those parks means Newcastle Council also believes | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
a parks charity would have more flexibility to raise income and use | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
volunteers like these ones, although at this local project | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
there are misgivings. Volunteers are brilliant and it's | :51:28. | :51:29. | |
great to see people getting involved and taking pride in their parks | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
but I don't think it's fair to rely completely on them because it puts | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
a bit too much strain on them and you need paid staff | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
working in the park. The body which represents | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
Newcastle Park volunteers says the fall in funding is already | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
having an impact with vandalism and neglect | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
increasingly in evidence. There's been a 95% reduction | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
since 2010 approximately, the answer is there's no skilled | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
maintenance happening the moment. The area's left | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
to fall into decline. She questions whether a new | :52:05. | :52:05. | |
organisation would fill the gap. We don't know how much it will cost | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
to maintain green spaces and the council isn't telling us how | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
much this social enterprise will The City Council says it's | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
still assessing the funding a parks trust would generate but insists | :52:18. | :52:28. | |
there are guarantees. The council maintains ownership, | :52:29. | :52:30. | |
the parks charity will have in its objectives statements | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
like free access is essential, There might be charging to do some | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
things but not to come in, so those basic principles | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
which for over 100 years have been held by the Council would be held | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
by the charitable trust. They have been our pride | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
and our playground through the ages but how to preserve parks | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
for the future is now the challenge. Nick Brown, this could be happening | :53:01. | :53:09. | |
to parks in your constituency. I think the Council | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
are in an impossible position. In 2011 the budget for | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
parks across the whole The budget for this year | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
is ?250,000, so the budget has fallen dramatically | :53:19. | :53:27. | |
and that is Maintaining parks is not | :53:28. | :53:28. | |
a statutory function many people associate it with local | :53:29. | :53:38. | |
government so the council are stuck. They have to look at ways forward | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
and I think they are right I haven't pored over | :53:48. | :53:50. | |
Newcastle's budget in detail but there are choices that could be | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
made by councils. Is it the right choice to decide | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
that you're going to pass this buck over to members of the community | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
who might have no expertise in how That's not what the suggestion | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
is but as for choices, the councils have not been left | :54:08. | :54:16. | |
with any choice. Their budgets are slowly | :54:17. | :54:18. | |
being squeezed so every non-statutory function | :54:19. | :54:20. | |
is being squeezed out of their budget, this is happening | :54:21. | :54:22. | |
right across the North East, and the statutory functions are now | :54:23. | :54:24. | |
under pressure as well even though the government have given them | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
the legal obligation The changes coming into the domestic | :54:28. | :54:29. | |
and business rate will make matters worse for every authority | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
in the North East. That may be a debate | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
for another day. We've discussed it | :54:38. | :54:38. | |
on this programme. How have we got to the point where | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
parks gifted to the communities or developed for public good more | :54:47. | :54:56. | |
than 100 years ago could face being being shut or handed over | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
to a charity? There was a commitment there that | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
parks won't be shut, If councils can't | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
make a charity work. And hats off to Newcastle City | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
Council for looking at this solution because one effect is it opens up | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
a parks trust to access funding a council could never touch, | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
for example the park in Wallsend has had a massive transformation | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
because of funding from Other parks have benefited | :55:21. | :55:22. | |
and I think a bit of innovation and building community spirit, | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
it's the one thing we have been But this is council despair, | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
it's like we have no other choice, I think use it as an opportunity | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
and we saw about volunteers getting involved, you don't want things | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
to be run completely by volunteers but this is a tremendous opportunity | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
to get funding that you wouldn't normally have got to galvanise | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
community spirit and improve the parks | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
because everyone uses them so let's get everyone together | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
to try to protect them. Galvanising community spirit, that's | :55:58. | :56:09. | |
how a lot of these park started And they are very much associated | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
with local government. I think it's slightly better | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
than a council of despair, my fear is although the parks | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
will still be free for people to use, everything that goes | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
on within the parks, whether it's charitable | :56:24. | :56:25. | |
or commercial management, They're talking openly | :56:26. | :56:27. | |
about raising money. People will pay for | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
a cafe or a service. It seems there are reasonable ways | :56:36. | :56:37. | |
of doing it and there might be less reasonable ways of doing it | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
so I would want to sound You wouldn't want families | :56:42. | :56:43. | |
with young children to feel they would get gouged every time | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
they go into the park. We're back same time, | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
same place, next Sunday. Until then, do keep up to date | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
by following me on Twitter. For now it's back to Andrew | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
for the rest of the show. Now the government plans for new | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
grammar schools. The Education Secretary | :57:05. | :57:20. | |
Justine Greening was speaking to a conference | :57:21. | :57:21. | |
of headteachers on Friday. They're normally a pretty polite | :57:22. | :57:23. | |
bunch, but they didn't Broadcasters weren't | :57:24. | :57:25. | |
allowed into the speech, but this was captured | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
on a camera phone. And we have to recognise actually | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
for grammars, in terms of disadvantaged children, | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
that they have, they really do help them close | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
the attainment gap. And at the same time | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
we should recognise that ..That parents also want choice | :57:47. | :57:48. | |
for their children and that those schools are often | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
very oversubscribed. I suppose it is a rite of passage | :57:56. | :58:10. | |
for and education secretaries to have this at a head teachers | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
conference book the head are usually more polite. Isn't part of the | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
problem, whether one is for or against the expansion of grammar | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
schools, the government plans are complicated, you cannot sum them up | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
in a sentence. The proof of that is they can still get away with denying | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
they are expanding grammar schools. They will find an alternative | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
formulation because it is not as simple as a brute creation of what | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
we used to know is grammar schools with the absolute cut-off of the 11 | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
plus. I am surprised how easy they found it politically. We saw the | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
clip of Justine Greening being jeered a little bit but in the grand | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
scheme, compared to another government trying this idea a decade | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
ago they have got away with it easily and I think what is happening | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
is a perverse consequence of Brexit and the media attention on Brexit, | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
the government of the day can just about get away with slightly more | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
contentious domestic policies on the correct assumption we will be too | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
busy investing our attention in Article 50 and two years of | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
negotiations, WTO terms at everything we have been discussing. | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
I wonder if after grammar schools there will be examples of | :59:27. | :59:28. | |
contentious domestic policies Theresa May can slide in stock | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
because Brexit sucks the life out, takes the attention away. You are a | :59:34. | :59:41. | |
supporter. Broadly. Are you happy with the government approach? They | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
need to have more gumption and stop being apologetic. It is a bazaar | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
area of public policy where we judge the policy on grammar schools based | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
on what it does for children whose parents are unemployed, living on | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
sink estates in Liverpool. It is absurd, we don't judge any other | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
policy like that. It is simple, not contentious, people who are not | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
sure, ask them if they would apply to send their child there, six out | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
of ten said they would. Parents want good schools for their children, we | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
should have appropriate education and they should be straightforward, | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
this is about the future of the economy and we need bright children | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
to get education at the highest level, education for academically | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
bright children. It is supposed to be a signature policy of the Theresa | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
May administration that marks a government different from David | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
Cameron's government who did not go down this road. The signature is | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
pretty blurred, it is hard to read. It is. She is trying to address | :00:43. | :00:52. | |
concerns about those who fail to get into these selective schools and | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
tried to targeted in poorer areas and the rest of it. She will | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
probably come across so many obstacles. It is not clear what form | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
it will take in the end. It is really an example of a signature | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
policy not fully thought through. I think it was one of her first | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
announcements. It was. It surprised everybody. Surprised at the speed | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
and pace at which they were planning to go. Ever since, there have been | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
qualifications and hesitations en route with good cause, in my view. I | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
disagree with Juliet that this is... We all want good schools but if you | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
don't get in there and you end up in a less good school. They already do | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
that. We have selection based on the income of parents getting into a | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
good catchment area, based on the faith of the parents. That becomes | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
very attainable! I might been too shot run christenings for these. -- | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
I have been. Now, you may remember this time last | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
week we were talking about the extraordinary claims by US | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
President Donald Trump, on Twitter of course, | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
that Barack Obama had ordered And there was me thinking | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
that wiretaps went out Is it legal for a sitting | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
President to do so, he asked, concluding it was a "new low", | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
and later comparing it to Watergate. Since then, the White House has been | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
pressed to provide evidence for this It hasn't, but it seems it may have | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
initially come from a report on a US website by the former Conservative | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
MP Louise Mensch. She wrote that the FBI had been | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
granted a warrant to intercept communications between Trump's | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
campaign and Russia. Well, Louise Mensch joins | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
us now from New York. Louise, you claimed in early | :02:34. | :02:46. | |
November that the FBI had secured a court warrants to monitor | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
communications between trump Tower in New York at two Russian banks. | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
It's now four months later. Isn't it the case that nobody has proved the | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
existence of this warrant? First of all, forgive me Andrew, one | :02:57. | :03:06. | |
takes 1's life in one's hand when it is you but I have to correct your | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
characterisation of my reporting. It is very important. I did not report | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
that the FBI had a warrant to intercept anything or that Trump | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
tower was any part of it. What I reported was that the FBI obtained a | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
warrant is targeted on all communications between two Russian | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
banks and were, therefore, allowed to examine US persons in the context | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
of their investigation. What the Americans call legally incidental | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
collection. I certainly didn't report that the warrant was able to | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
intercept or that it had location basis, for example Trump tower. I | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
just didn't report that. The reason that matters so much is that I now | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
believe based on the President's reaction, there may well be a | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
wiretap act Trump Tower. If so, Donald Trump has just tweeted out | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
evidence in an ongoing criminal case that neither I nor anybody else | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
reported. He is right about Watergate because he will have | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
committed obstruction of justice directly from his Twitter account. | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
Let me come back as thank you for clarifying. Let me come back to the | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
question. -- and thank you. We have not yet got proof that this warrant | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
exists, do we? No and we are most unlikely to get it because it would | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
be a heinous crime for Donald Trump to reveal its existence. In America | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
they call it a Glomar response. I can neither confirm nor deny. That | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
is what all American officials will have to say legally. If you are | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
looking for proof, you won't get it until and unless a court cases | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
brought. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The BBC validated | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
this two months after me in their reporting by the journalist Paul | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
Wood. The Guardian, they also separately from their own sources | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
validated the existence of the warrant. If you are in America, you | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
would know that CNN and others are reporting that the investigation in | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
ongoing. Let me come onto the wider point. You believe the Trump | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
campaign including the president were complicit with the Russians | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
during the 2016 election campaign to such an extent that Mr Trump should | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
be impeached. What evidence did you have? | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
That is an enormous amount of evidence. You could start with him | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
saying, hey, Russia, if you are listening, please release all the | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
Hillary Clinton's e-mails. That's not evidence. I think it rather is, | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
actually. Especially if you look at some of the evidence that exists on | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
Twitter and elsewhere of people talking directly to his social media | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
manager, Dan should be no and telling him to do that before it | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
happened. There is a bit out there. The BBC itself reported that in | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
April of last year, a six agency task force, not just the FBI, but | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
the Treasury Department, was looking at this. I believe there is an | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
enormous amount of evidence. And then there is the steel dossier | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
which was included in an official report of the US intelligence | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
committee. You've also ... Just to be clear, we don't have hard | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
evidence yet whether this warrant exists. It may or may not. There is | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
doubt about... There are claims about whether there is evidence | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
about Mr Trump and the Russians. That is another matter. You claimed | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
that President Putin had Andrew Breitbart murdered to pave the way | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
for Steve Bannon to play a key role in the Trump administration. I | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
haven't. You said that Steve Bannon is behind bomb threats to Jewish | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
community centres. Aren't you in danger of just peddling wild | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
conspiracy theories? No. Festival, I haven't. No matter how many times | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
people say this, it's not going to be true -- first of all. I said in | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
twitter I believe that to be the case about the murder of Andrew | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Breitbart. You believe President Putin murdered him. I didn't! You | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
said I reported it, but I believed it. You put it on twitter that you | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
believed it but you don't have a shred of evidence. I do. Indeed, I | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
know made assertions. What is the evidence that Mr Putin murdered | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
Andrew Breitbart? I said I believe it. You may believe there are | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
fairies at the bottom of your garden, it doesn't make it true. I | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
may indeed. And if I say so, that's my belief. If I say I am reporting, | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
as I did with the Fisa warrant exists, I have a basis in fact. They | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
believe is just a belief. I know you are relatively new to journalism. | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
Let me get the rules right. Andrew, jealousy is not your colour... If it | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
is twitter, we don't believe it but if it is on your website, we should | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
believe it? If I report something and I say this happened, then I am | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
making an assertion. If I describe a belief, I am describing a belief. | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
Subtlety may be a little difficult for you... No, no. If you want to be | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
a journalist, beliefs have to be backed up with evidence. Really? Do | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
you have a faith? It's not a matter of faith, maybe in your case, that | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
President Putin murdered Andrew Breitbart. A belief and a report at | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
two different things and no matter how often you say that they are the | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
same, they will never be the same. You've said in today's Sunday Times | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
here in London that you've turned into" a temporary superpower" where | :08:37. | :08:46. | |
you "See things really clearly". Have you become delusional? No. I am | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
describing a biological basis for ADHD, which I have. As any of your | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
viewers who are doctors will know. It provides people with | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
unfortunately a lot of scattered focus, they are very messy and | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
absent-minded but when they are interested in things and they have | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
ADHD they can have a condition which is hyper focus. You concentrate very | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
hard on a given subject and you can see patterns and connections. That | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
is biological. Thank you for explaining that. And for getting up | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
early in New York. The first time ever I have interviewed a temporary | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
superpower. Thank you. You are so lucky! You are so lucky! I don't | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
think it's going to happen again. Please don't ask us to comment on | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
that interview! I will not ask you, viewers will make up their own | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
minds. Let's come back to be more mundane world of Article 50. Stop | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
the killing! Will it get through at the | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
government wanted it? Without the Lords amendment falling by the way | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
that? I am sure the Lord will not try to ping-pong this back and | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
forth. So we are at the end of this particular legislative phase. The | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
fact that all three Brexit Cabinet ministers, number ten often don't | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
like one of them going out on a broadcast interview on a Sunday, | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
they've all been out and about. That suggests to me they are working on | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
the assumption it will be triggered this week. This week. The | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
negotiations will begin or at least the process begins. The negotiation | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
process may be difficult, given all of the European elections. The Dutch | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
this week. And then the French and maybe the Italians and certainly the | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
Germans by the end of September, which is less predictable than it | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
was. Given all that, what did you make of Anna Soubry's claim, Viacom | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
on her part, that we may just end up crashing out in six months question | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
-- fear on her part. It was not just that that we made that deliberately | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
organising. I want us to get on with the deals. | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
Everyone knows a good deal is the best option. Who knows what is going | :10:50. | :10:57. | |
to be on the table when we finally go out? Fascinatingly, the demand | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
for some money back, given the amount of money... Net gains and net | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
costs in terms of us leaving for the EU. It is all to play for. That will | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
be a possible early grounds for a confrontation between the UK and the | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
EU. My understanding is that they expect to do a deal on reciprocal | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
rights of EU nationals, EU nationals here, UK citizens there, quite | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
quickly. They want to clear that up and that will be done. Then they | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
will hit this problem that the EU will be saying you've got to agree | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
the divorce Bill first before we talk about the free trade bill. | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
David Davis saying quite clearly, no, they go together because of the | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
size of the bill. It will be determined, in our part, by how good | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
the access will be. The mutual recognition of EU residents' rights | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
is no trouble. A huge amount of fuss is attracted to that subject but it | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
is the easiest thing to deal with, as is free movement for tourists. | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
Money is what will make it incredibly acrimonious. Incredibly | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
quickly. I imagine the dominant story in the summer will be all | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
about that. This was Anna Soubry's implication, members of the | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
governors could strongly argue, things are so poisonous and so | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
unpleasant at the moment, the dealers are advancing -- members of | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
the government. Why not call it a day and go out on WTO terms while | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
public opinion is still in that direction in that Eurosceptic | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
direction? No buyers' remorse about last year's referendum. The longer | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
they leave it, view more opportunity there is for some kind of public | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
resistance and change of mind to take place. The longer believe it, | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
the more people who voted for Brexit and people who voted Remain and | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
think we didn't get world War three will start being quite angry with | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
the EU for not agreeing a deal. In terms of the rights of EU nationals | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
he and Brits abroad, by all accounts, 26 of the 27 have agreed | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
individually. Angela Merkel is the only person who has held that up. | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
That will be dealt with in a matter of days. The chances of a deal being | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
done is likely but in ten seconds... It would not be a bad bet to protect | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
your on something not happening, you might get pretty good odds? The odds | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
are going up that a deal doesn't happen. But, as I said earlier, the | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
House of Commons will not endorse no deal. We are either in an early | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
election or she has to go back again. Either way, you will need us! | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
We will be back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two ahead of what looks like | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
being a big week in politics. We will be back here same time, same | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
place. Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. They're calling it an | :13:35. | :14:38. | |
entertainment extravaganza audience fun and frolics | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
and outrageous shenanigans. And I don't even know what | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
those HONK words mean. | :14:51. | :14:54. |