Browse content similar to 05/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
The Chancellor says that to embark on a spending spree | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
in Wednesday's Budget would be "reckless". | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
But will there be more money for social care and to ease | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
The UK terror threat is currently severe, | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
but where is that threat coming from? | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
We have the detailed picture from a vast new study of every | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
Islamist related terrorist offence committed over the last two decades. | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
What can we learn from these offences to thwart future attacks? | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
The government was defeated in the Lords on its | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
We'll ask the Leader of the House of Commons what he'll do if peers | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
In the North East and Cumbria: MPs call for action to secure the future | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
And, after losing Copeland what other | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
Labour-held seats in the North are now vulnerable? | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
All that coming up in the next hour and a quarter. | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Now, some of you might have read that intruders managed | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
to get into the BBC news studios this weekend. | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Well three of them appear not to have been ejected yet, | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
so we might as well make use of them as our political panel. | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Philip Hammond will deliver his second financial | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
statement as Chancellor and the last Spring Budget | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
for a while at least - they are moving to the Autumn | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
There's been pressure on him to find more money | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
for the Health Service, social care, schools funding, | :02:14. | :02:15. | |
But this morning the Chancellor insisted that he will not be | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
using the proceeds of better than expected tax receipts to embark | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
What is being speculated on is whether we might not have borrowed | :02:24. | :02:34. | |
quite as much as we were forecast to borrow. You will see the numbers on | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
Wednesday. But if your bank increases your credit card limit, I | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
do not think you feel obliged to go out and spent every last penny of it | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
He is moving the budget to the autumn, he told us that in his | :02:48. | :02:59. | |
statement, so maybe on Wednesday it will be like a spring statement | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
rather than a full-blown budget. Tinkering pre-Brexit and in November | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
he will have a more clear idea of the impact of Brexit and I suspect | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
that will be the bigger event than this one. It looks as if there will | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
be a bit of money here and there, small amounts, not enough in my | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
view, for social care and so on, possibly a review of social care | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
policy. A familiar device which rarely get anywhere. I think he has | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
got a bit more space to do more if he wanted to do now because of the | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
politics. They are miles ahead in the polls, so he could do more, but | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
it is not in his character, he is cautious. So he keeps his powder dry | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
on most things, he does some things, but he keeps it dry until November. | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
But also, as Steve says, he will know just how strong the economy has | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
been this year by November and whether he needs to do some pump | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
priming or whether everything is fine. He said it is too early to | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
make those sorts of judgments now. What is striking is the amount of | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
concern there is an Number ten and in the Treasury about the tone of | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
this budget, so less about the actual figures and more about what | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
message this is sending out to the rest of the world. I think some | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
senior MPs are calling it a kind of treading water budget and Phil | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
Hammond has got quite a difficult act to perform because he is | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
instinctively rather cautious, or very cautious, and instinctively | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
slightly gloomy about Brexit. He wanted to remain. But he does not | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
want this budget to sounded downbeat and he will be mauled if he makes it | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
sound downbeat, so he has to inject a little bit of optimism and we may | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
see that in the infrastructure spending plans. He has got some room | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
to manoeuvre. The deficit by the financial year ending in April we | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
now know will not be as big as the OBR told us only three and a half | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
months ago that it would be. They added 12 billion on and they may | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
take most of that off again. He is under pressure from his own side to | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
do something on social care and business rates and I bet some Tory | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
backbenchers would not mind a little bit more money for the NHS as well. | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
He is on a huge pressure to do a whole lot on a whole load, not just | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
social care. There is also how on earth do we pay for so many old | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
people? There is the NHS, defence spending, everything. But his words | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
this morning, which is I am not going to spend potentially an extra | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
30 billion I might have by 2020 because of improved economic growth | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
was interesting. You need to hold something back because Brexit might | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
go back and he was a bit of a remain campaign person. If you think | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
Britain is going to curl up into a corner and hideaway licking its | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
wounds, you have got another think coming. That 30 billion he might | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
have extra in his pocket could be worth deploying on building up | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
Britain with huge tax cuts in case there is no deal, a war chest if you | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
like. He will have more than 27 billion. He may decide 27 billion in | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
the statement, the margin by which he tries to get the structural | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
deficit down, he will still have 27 billion. If the receipts are better | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
than they are forecast, some people are saying he will have a war chest | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
of 60 billion. That money, as Mr Osborne found out, can disappear. He | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
clearly is planning not to go on a spending spree this Wednesday. It is | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
interesting in the FTB and the day, David Laws who was chief Secretary | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
for five minutes, was also enthusiastic about the original | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
George Osborne austerity programme and he said, we have reached the | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
limits to what is socially possible with this and a consensus is | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
beginning to emerge that he will have to spend more money than he | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
plans to this Wednesday. This is not just from Labour MPs, but from a lot | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
of Conservative MPs as well. People will wonder when this austerity will | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
end because it seems to be going on for ever. We will have more on the | :07:31. | :07:32. | |
budget later in the programme. Now, the government was defeated | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
last week in the House of Lords. Peers amended the bill that | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
will allow Theresa May to trigger Brexit to guarantee the rights of EU | :07:40. | :07:41. | |
nationals currently in the UK. The government says it will remove | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
the amendment when the bill returns But today a report from | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
the Common's Brexit committee also calls for the Government to make | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
a unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
nationals living here. If the worst happened, | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
are we actually going to say to 3 million Europeans here, | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
who are nurses, doctors, serving us tea and coffee in restaurants, | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
giving lectures at Leeds University, picking and processing vegetables, | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
"Right, off you go"? No, of course we are not | :08:13. | :08:14. | |
going to say that. So, why not end the | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
uncertainty for them now? will help to create the climate | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
which will ensure everyone gets to say because that's | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
what all of us want. That is why we have unanimously | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
agreed this recommendation that the government should make unilateral | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
decision to say to EU citizens here, yes, you can stay, because we think | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
that is the right and fair thing to do. | :08:44. | :08:44. | |
And we're joined now from Buckinghamshire by the leader | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
of the House of Commons, David Lidington. | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The House of Lords has amended the | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
Article 50 bill to allow the unilateral acceptance of EU | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
nationals' right to remain in the UK. Is it still the government was | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
my intention to remove that amendment in the comments? We have | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
always been clear that we think this bill is very straightforward, it | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
does nothing else except give the Prime Minister the authority that | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
the courts insist upon to start the Article 50 process of negotiating | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
with the other 27 EU countries. On the particular issue of EU citizens | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
here and British citizens overseas, the PM did suggest that the December | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
European summit last year that we do a pre-negotiation agreement on this. | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
That was not acceptable to all of the other 27 because they took the | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
view that you cannot have any kind of negotiation and to Article 50 has | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
been triggered. That is where we are. I hope with goodwill and | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
national self interest on all sides we can tackle this is right that the | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
start of those negotiations. But it is not just the Lords. We have now | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
got the cross-party Commons Brexit committee saying you should now make | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
the unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU nationals in the | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
UK. Even Michael go, Peter Lilley, John Whittington, agree. So why are | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
you so stubborn on this issue? I think this is a complex issue that | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
goes beyond the rise of presidents, but about things like the rights of | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
access to health care, to pension ratings and benefits and so on... | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
But you could settle back. It is also, Andrew, because you have got | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
to look at it from the point of view of the British citizens, well over 1 | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
million living elsewhere in Europe. If we make the unilateral gesture, | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
it might make us feel good for Britain and it would help in the | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
short term those EU citizens who are here, but you have got those British | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
citizens overseas who would then be potential bargaining chips in the | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
hands of any of the 27 other governments. We do not know who will | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
be in office during the negotiations and they may have completely | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
extraneous reasons to hold up the agreement on the rights of British | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
citizens. The sensible way to deal with this is 28 mature democracies | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
getting around the table starting the negotiations and to agree to | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
something that is fair to all sides and is reciprocal. What countries | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
might take on UK nationals living in the EU? What countries are you | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
frightened of? The one thing that I know from my own experience in the | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
past of being involved in European negotiations is that issues come up | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
that maybe have nothing to do with British nationals, but another issue | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
that matters a huge amount to a particular government, it may not be | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
a government yet in office, and they decide we can get something out of | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
this, so let's hold up the agreement on British citizens until the | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
British move in the direction we want on issue X. I hope it does not | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
come to that. I think the messages I have had from EU ambassadors in | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
London and from those it my former Europe colleague ministers is that | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
we want this to be a done deal as quickly as possible. That is the | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
British Government's very clear intention. We hope that we can get a | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
reciprocal deal agreed before the Article 50 process. That was not | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
possible. I understand that, you have said that already. But even if | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
there is no reciprocal deal being done, is it really credible that EU | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
nationals already here would lose their right to live and work and | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
face deportation? You know that is not credible, that will not happen. | :13:01. | :13:08. | |
We have already under our own system law whereby some people who have | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
been lawfully resident and working here for five years can apply for | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
permanent residency, but it is not just about residents. It is about | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
whether residency carries with it certain rights of access to health | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
care. I understand that, but have made this point. But the point is | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
the right to live and work here that worries them at the moment. The Home | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
Secretary has said there can be no change in their status without a | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
vote in parliament. Could you ever imagine the British Parliament | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
voting to remove their right to live and work here? I think the British | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
Parliament will want to be very fair to EU citizens, as Hilary Benn and | :13:54. | :14:01. | |
others rightly say they have been overwhelmingly been here working | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
hard and paying taxes and contributing to our society. They | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
were equally want to make sure there is a fair deal for our own citizens, | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
more than a million, elsewhere in Europe. You cannot disentangle the | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
issue of residence from those things that go with residents. Is the | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
Article 50 timetabled to be triggered before the end of this | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
month, is it threatened by these amendments in the Lords? I sincerely | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
hope not because the House of Lords is a perfectly respectable | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
constitutional role to look again at bills sent up by the House of | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
commons. But they also have understood traditionally that as an | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
unelected house they have to give primacy to the elected Commons at | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
the end of the day. In this case it is not just the elected Commons that | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
sent the bill to be amended, but the referendum that lies behind that. It | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
is not possible? We are confident we can get Article 50 triggered by the | :15:06. | :15:07. | |
end of the month. One of the other Lords amendments | :15:08. | :15:15. | |
will be to have a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal when it is done at | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
the end of the process, what is your view on that? What would you | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
understand by a meaningful vote? The Government has already said there is | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
going to be a meaningful vote at the end of the process. What do you mean | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
by a meaningful vote? The parliament will get the opportunity to vote on | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
the deal before it finishes the EU level process of going to | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
consideration by the European Parliament. Parliament will be given | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
a choice, as I understand, for either a vote for the deal you have | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
negotiated or we leave on WTO rules and crash out anyway, is that what | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
you mean by a meaningful choice? Parliament will get the choice to | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
vote on the deal, but I think you have put your finger on the problem | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
with trying to write something into the bill because any idea that the | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
PM's freedom to negotiate is limited, any idea that if the EU 27 | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
were to play hardball, that somehow that means parliament would take | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
fright, reverse the referendum verdict and set aside the views of | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
the British people, that would almost guarantee that it would be | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
much more difficult to get the sort of ambitious mutually beneficial | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
deal for us and the EU 27. Your idea of a meaningful vote in parliament | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
is the choices either to vote to accept this deal or we leave anyway, | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
that is your idea of a meaningful vote. The Article 50 process is | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
straightforward. There is the position of both parties in the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
recent Supreme Court case that the Article 50 process once triggered is | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
irrevocable. That is in the EU Treaty already but we are saying | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
very clearly that Parliament will get that right to debate and vote. I | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
think the problem with what some in the House of Lords are proposing, I | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
hope it is not a majority, is that the amendments they would seek to | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
insert would tie the Prime Minister's hands, limit and | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
negotiating freedom and put her in a more difficult position to negotiate | :17:36. | :17:37. | |
on behalf of this country than should be the case. One year ago you | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
said it could take six to eight years to agree a free-trade deal | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
with the EU. Now you think you can do it in two, what's changed your | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
mind? There is a very strong passionate supporter of Remain, as | :17:54. | :18:07. | |
you know. I hope very much we are able to conclude not just the terms | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
of the exit deal but the agreement that we are seeking on the long-term | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
trade relationship... I understand that, but I'm trying to work out, | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
what makes you think you can do it in two years when only a year ago | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
you said it would take up to wait? The referendum clearly makes a big | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
difference, and I think that there is an understanding amongst real the | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
other 27 governments now that it is in everybody's interests to sort | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
this shared challenge out of negotiating a new relationship | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
between the EU 27 and the UK because European countries, those in and | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
those who will be out of the EU, share the need to face up to massive | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
challenges like terrorism and technological change. All of that | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
was pretty obvious one year ago but we will see what happens. Thank you, | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
David Lidington. Now, the Sunday Politics has had | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
sight of a major new report The thousand-page study, | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
which researchers say is the most comprehensive ever produced, | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
analyses all 269 Islamist telated terrorist offences | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
committed between 1998-2015. Most planned attacks were, | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
thankfully, thwarted, but what can we learn | :19:29. | :19:29. | |
from those offences? For the police and the intelligence | :19:30. | :19:31. | |
agencies to fight terror, Researchers at the security think | :19:32. | :19:41. | |
tank The Henry Jackson Society gave us early access to their huge | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
new report which analyses every Islamism related attack | :19:49. | :19:58. | |
and prosecution in the UK since 1998, that's 269 cases | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
involving 253 perpetrators. With issues as sensitive | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
as counterterrorism and counter radicalisation, it is really | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
important to have an evidence base from which you draw | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
policy and policing, This isn't my opinion, | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
this the facts. This chart shows the number | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
of cases each year combined with a small number | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
of successful suicide attacks. Notice the peak in the middle | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
of the last decade around the time of the 7/7 bombings | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
in London in 2005. Offences tailed off, | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
before rising again from 2010, when a three-year period accounted | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
for a third of all the terrorism cases since the researchers | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
started counting. What we are seeing is a combination | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
of both more offending, in terms of the threat increasing, | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
we know that from the security services and police statements, | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
but also I believe we are getting more efficient in terms | :20:48. | :20:49. | |
of our policing and we are actually A third of people were found to have | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
facilitated terrorism, that's providing encouragement, | :20:53. | :21:01. | |
documents, money. About 18% of people | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
were aspirational terrorists, 12% of convictions were related | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
to travel, to training And 37% of people were convicted | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
of planning attacks, although the methods have | :21:14. | :21:21. | |
changed over time. Five or six years ago, | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
we saw lots of people planning or attempting pipe bombs and most | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
of the time they had Inspire magazine in their possession, | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
that's a magazine, an Al-Qaeda English-language online | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
magazine that had specific More recently we have seen | :21:36. | :21:37. | |
Islamic State encouraging people to engage in lower tech knife | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
beheading, stabbings attacks and I think that's why we have | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
seen that more recently. Shasta Khan plotted with her | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
husband to bomb the Jewish In 2012 she received | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
an eight-year prison sentence. She's one of an increasing | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
number of women convicted of an Islamism related offence | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
although it is still overwhelmingly a crime carried out | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
by men in their 20s. Despite fears of foreign terrorists, | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
a report says the vast Most have their home in London, | :22:09. | :22:10. | |
around 43% of them. 18% lived in the West Midlands, | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
particularly in Birmingham, and the north-west is another | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
hotspot with around 10% Richard Dart lived in Weymouth | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
and tried to attend a terrorist He was a convert to Islam, as were | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
60% of the people in this report. He was a convert to Islam, as were | :22:32. | :22:40. | |
16% of the people in this report. Like the majority of cases, | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
he had a family, network. What's particularly interesting | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
is how different each story is in many ways, | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
but then within those differences So your angry young men, | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
in the one sense inspired to travel, seek training and combat experience | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
abroad, and then the older, recruiter father-figure types, | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
the fundraising facilitator types. There are types within | :23:08. | :23:09. | |
this terrorism picture, but the range of backgrounds | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
and experiences is huge. And three quarters of those | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
convicted of Islamist terrorism were on the radar of the authorities | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
because they had a previous criminal record, they had | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
made their extremism public, or because MI5 had them | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
under surveillance. To discuss the findings of this | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
report are the former Security Minister Pauline Neville-Jones, | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
Talha Ahmad from the Muslim Council of Britain, and Adam Deen | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
from the anti-extremist group The report finds the most segregated | :23:43. | :23:57. | |
Muslim community is, the more likely it is to incubate Islamist | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
terrorists, what is the MCB doing to encourage more integrated | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
communities? Its track record on calling for reaching out to the | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
wider society and having a more integrated and cohesive society I | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
think is a pretty strong one, so one thing we are doing for example very | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
recently I've seen we had this visit my mosque initiative, the idea was | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
that mosques become open to inviting people of other faiths and their | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
neighbours to come so we were encouraged to see so many | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
participating. It is one step forward. Is it a good thing or a bad | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
thing that in a number of Muslim communities, the Muslim population | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
is over 60% of the community? I personally and the council would | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
prefer to have more mixed communities but one of the reason | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
they are heavily concentrated is not so much because they prefer to but | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
often because the socio- economic reality forces them to. But you | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
would like to see less segregation? Absolutely, we would prefer more | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
diverse communities around the country. What is your reaction to | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
that? Will need more diverse communities but one of the | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
challenges we have right now with certain organisations is this | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
pushback against the Government, with its attempts to help young | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
Muslims not go down this journey of extremism. One of those things is | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
the Prevent strategy and we often hear organisations like the MCB | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
attacking the strategy which is counter-productive. What do you say | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
to that? Do we support the Government have initiatives to | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
counteract terrorism, of course we do. Do you support the Prevent | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
strategy? We don't because it scapegoats an entire community. The | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
report shows that contrary to a lot of lone wolf theories and people | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
being radicalised in their bedrooms on the Internet that 80% of those | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
convicted had connections with the extremist groups. Indeed 25% willing | :26:02. | :26:21. | |
to Al-Muhajiroun. I think this report, which is a thorough piece of | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
work, charts a long period and it is probably true to say that in the | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
earlier stages these organisations were very important, of course | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
subsequently we have had direct recruiting by IS one to one over the | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
Internet so we have a mixed picture of how people are recruited but | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
there's no doubt these organisations are recruiting sergeants. You were | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
once a member of one of these organisations, are we doing enough | :26:50. | :26:58. | |
to thwart them? If we just focus on these organisations, we will fail. | :26:59. | :27:07. | |
We -- the question is are we doing enough to neutralise them? The | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
Government strategy is in the right place, but where we need to focus on | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
is the Muslim community or communities. The Muslim community | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
must realise that these violent extremists are fringe but they share | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
ideas, a broad spectrum of ideas that penetrate deeply within Muslim | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
communities and we need to tackle those ideas because that is where it | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
all begins. Are you in favour of banning groups like Al-Muhajiroun? | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
Yes, it was the right thing to do and I can tell you the community has | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
moved a long way, Al-Muhajiroun does not have support. Do you agree with | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
that? Yes, but it is very simplistic attacking Al-Muhajiroun. ISIS didn't | :27:54. | :28:01. | |
bring about extremism, extremism brought about ISIS, ISIS is just the | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
brand and if we don't deal with the ideological ideas we will have other | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
organisations popping up. The report suggests that almost a quarter of | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
Islamist the latest offences were committed by individuals previous | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
unknown to the security services. And this is on the rise, these | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
numbers. This would seem to make an already difficult task for our | :28:28. | :28:29. | |
intelligence services almost impossible. Two points. It is over | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
80% I think were known, but it shows the intelligence services and police | :28:37. | :28:44. | |
have got their eyes open. But the trend has been towards more not on | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
the radar. That has been because the nature of the recruitment has also | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
changed and you have much more ISIS inspired go out and do it yourself, | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
get a knife, do something simple, so we have fewer of the big | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
spectaculars that ISIS organised. Now you have got locally organised | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
people, two or three people get together, do something together, | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
very much harder actually to get forewarning of that. That is where | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
intelligence inside the community, the community coming to the police | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
say I'm worried about my friend, this is how you get ahead of that | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
kind of attack. Should people in the Muslim community who are worried | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
about individuals being radicalised, perhaps going down the terrorist | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
route, should they bring in the police? Absolutely and we have been | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
consistent on telling the community that wherever they suspect someone | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
has been involved in terrorism or any kind of criminal activity, they | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
should call the police and cooperate. As the so-called | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
caliphate collapses in the Middle East, how worried should we be about | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
fighters returning here? Extremely worried. They fall into | :30:10. | :30:23. | |
three categories. You have ones who are disillusioned about Islamic | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
State. You have ones who are disturbed, and then you have the | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
dangerous who have not disavowed their ideas and who will have great | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
reasons to perform attacks. What do we do? Anyone who comes back, there | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
should be evidence looked into if they committed any crimes. But all | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
those categories should all be be radicalised. You cannot leave them | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
alone. Will we be sure if we know when they come back? That is | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
difficult to say. They could come in and we might not know. There is a | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
watch list so you have got a better chance. And you can identify them? | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
This is where working with other countries is absolutely crucial and | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
our border controls need to be good as well. I am not saying and the | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
government is not saying that anyone would ever slip through, but it is | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
our ability to know when somebody is coming through and to stop them at | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
the border has improved. An important question. Given your | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
experience, how prepared are away for a Paris style attack in a | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
medium-size, provincial city? The government has exercised this one. | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
It started when I was security minister and it has been taken | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
seriously. The single biggest challenge that the police and the | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
Army says will be one of those mobile, roving attacks. You have to | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
take it seriously and the government does. All right, we will leave it | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
Now, Brexit may have swept austerity from the front pages, | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
but the deficit hasn't gone away and the government is still | :32:07. | :32:08. | |
Just this week Whitehall announced that government departments have | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
been told to find another ?3.5bn worth of savings by 2020. | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
Last November the Independent office for Budget Responsibility | :32:17. | :32:19. | |
said the budget deficit would be ?68 billion in the current | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
It would still be ?17 billion by 2021-22. | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
On Wednesday the Chancellor is expected to announce | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
that the 2016-17 deficit has come in much lower than the OBR forecast. | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
Even so, the government is still aiming for the lowest level | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
of public spending as a percentage of national income since 2003-4, | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
coupled with an increase in the tax burden to its highest | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
So spending cuts will continue with reductions in day-to-day | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
government spending accelerating, producing a real terms cut of over | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
But capital spending, investment on infrastructure | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
like roads, hospitals, housing, is projected to grow, | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
producing a 16 billion real terms increase by 2021-22. | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
The Chancellor's task on Wednesday is to keep these fiscal targets | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
while finding some more money for areas under serious | :33:18. | :33:19. | |
pressure such as the NHS, social care and business rates. | :33:20. | :33:27. | |
We're joined now by Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies. | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
Welcome back to the programme. In last March's budget the OBR | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
predicted just over 2% economic growth for this year. By the Autumn | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
Statement in the wake of the Brexit vote it downgraded back to 1.4%. It | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
is now expected to revise that back around to 2% as the Bank of England | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
has again. It is speculated on the future. It looks like we will get a | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
growth forecast for this year not very different from where it was a | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
year ago. What the bank did was upgrade its forecast for the next | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
year or so, but not change very much. It was thinking about three or | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
four years' time, which is what really matters. It looked like the | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
OBR made a mistake in downgrading the growth in the Autumn Statement | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
three months ago. It was more optimistic than nearly all the other | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
forecasters and the Bank of England. It was wrong, but not as wrong as | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
everybody else. We don't know, but if it significantly upgraded its | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
growth forecast for the next three or four years, I would be surprised. | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
It also added 12 billion to the deficit for the current financial | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
year in the Autumn Statement, compared with March. It looks like | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
that deficit will probably be cut again by about 12 billion compared | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
to the last OBR forecast. It is quite difficult to make economic | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
policy on the basis of changes of that skill every couple of months. | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
That is one of the problems about having these two economic event so | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
close together. My guess is the number will come out somewhere | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
between the budget and the Autumn Statement numbers. There was a nice | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
surprise for the Chancellor last month which looked like tax revenues | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
were coming in a lot more strongly than he expected. But again the real | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
question is how much is this making a difference in the medium run? Is | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
this a one-off thing all good news for the next several years? If | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
growth and revenues are stronger, perhaps not as strong as the good | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
news last month, but if they are stronger than had been forecast in | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
the Autumn Statement, what does that mean for planned spending cuts? It | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
probably does not mean very much. Let's not forget the best possible | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
outcome of this budget will be that for the next couple of years things | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
look no worse than they did a year ago and in four years out they will | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
still look a bit worse, and in addition Philip Hammond did increase | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
his spending plans in November. However good the numbers look in a | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
couple of days' time, we will still be borrowing at least 20 billion | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
more by 2020 than we were forecasting a year ago. Still quite | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
constrained. George Osborne wanted to get us to budget surplus by 2019. | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
That has gone. Philip Hammond is quite happy with a big deficit and | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
is not interested in that. But what he is thinking to a large extent, as | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
you have made clear, there is a lot of uncertainty about the economic | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
reaction over the next three or four years. He says he wants some | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
headroom. If things go wrong, I do not want to announce more spending | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
cuts or more tax rises to keep the deficit down. I want to say things | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
have gone wrong for now and we will borrow. And I have got some money in | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
the kitty. He will not spend a lot of it now. I understand the | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
Chancellor is worried about the erosion of the tax base and it is | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
hard to put VAT up by more than 20%, millions have been taken out of | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
income tax, only 46% of people pay income tax, fuel duty is frozen for | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
ever, corporation tax has been cut, the growth in self-employed has | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
reduced revenues, is that a real concern? These are all worries for | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
him. We have as you said in the introduction to this, got a tax | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
burden which is rising very gradually, but it is rising to its | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
highest level since the mid-19 80s, but is not doing it through | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
straightforward increases to income tax. Lots of bits of pieces of | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
insurance premium tax is here and the apprenticeship levied there, and | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
that is higher personal allowance of income tax and a freeze fuel duty, | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
but at some point we will have to look at the tax system as a whole | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
and ask if we can carry on like this. We will have to start increase | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
fuel duties again, or look to those big but unpopular taxes to really | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
keep that money coming in to keep the challenges we will have over the | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
next 30 years. He is going to set up a commission on social care. He has | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
had quite a few commissions on social care. Thank you for being | :38:36. | :38:36. | |
with us. It's just gone 11.35, | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in twenty | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
minutes, the Week Ahead. Hello and a warm welcome | :38:44. | :38:52. | |
to your local part of the show. This week: after the Copeland | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
defeat: we look at other Labour-held seats in the north | :38:56. | :38:57. | |
which may be vulnerable.. Labour-held seats in the north | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
which may be vulnerable. And is reform of the business | :39:01. | :39:10. | |
rates the good news that our local high streets | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
so desperately need? Talking about that, | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
and the rest of the week's news are two Teesside MPs, | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
international development Minister and Stockton South Conservative, | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
James Wharton, and Labour MP But let's start with | :39:26. | :39:27. | |
Nissan's Sunderland plant and what sort of a future it might | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
have after Brexit. The Government says they're | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
optimistic they can negotiate the right deal to keep jobs | :39:34. | :39:34. | |
and investment on Wearside. But the company's vice president | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
Colin Lawther struck a more cautious note when he gave evidence to MPs | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
on the International Trade So we would have to look | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
at the degrees of change and adjust our business to take | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
into account whatever this Should what Nissan said this week to | :39:47. | :39:58. | |
that committee worry us, or is this just a business being honest about | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
the fact that it cannot predict every aspect of the future? There is | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
always some degree of uncertainty business business tries to mitigate | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
those risks as much as possible but what he was saying there is to be | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
concerning. The Prime Minister has said that no deal is better than a | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
bad deal but actually when it comes to Nissan and the automotive | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
industry and manufacturing in general, if we don't have a deal we | :40:21. | :40:37. | |
revert to WTO rules which means impact on exports will be having a | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
10% tariff slapped upon the man given that Nissan are dealing with | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
volume of cars with wafer thin coffee market -- that wafer thin | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
profit margins that could wipe out the profit they have and they would | :40:47. | :40:48. | |
then reconsider investing in Sunderland which is concerning for | :40:49. | :40:50. | |
our entire manufacturing sector. That does seem concerning, this was | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
an issue that we were told that post-referendum the government have | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
it nailed on and now it seems they will be closely watching what you | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
do, and if you don't deliver what they expect, uncertainty will | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
continue. Nissan would rightly or wrongly always say they continually | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
review the environment they operate in the reason they are so successful | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
in Sunderland is because it is so effective and productive and has | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
such a good workforce that won't go away. We need to ensure we get the | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
best deal on the right deal for the UK but we also need to respect there | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
has been a referendum less than one away and the British people sent a | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
very clear message with the largest vote for anything ever that they | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
want to leave the European Union and the government is now delivering on | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
it and it must deliver on that and it doesn't mean we are conscious of | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
the fact that we want to get the best possible deal. Voters in | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
Sunderland who voted Brexit will not thank you if Nissan starts shedding | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
jobs. The point is that the competitiveness disappears if you | :41:47. | :41:48. | |
face tariffs and the Prime Minister has been quite clear, as he says, | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
that no deal is better than a bad deal. Actually tariffs would work | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
two ways. You would see the same tariff if it apply to us, applying | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
on German cars, French or Italian cars. That doesn't help Nissan! Bear | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
market in the UK might increase significantly. It might be that as | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
part of the deal this is all addressed which is the situation we | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
want to find ourselves in. It is not a simple black or white thing. They | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
would have to pay any tariff for goods that they sell here and what | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
they sell there and it could change the market altogether. Nissan has | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
shown its commitment already, as James Wharton says it is an | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
incredibly successful business and it is unrealistic to think that they | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
would just shut up shop and cut back on investment purely because of some | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
of these factors that are on the margins. They are here to make money | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
and James is absolutely right, it is a productive plant and they have | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
invested heavily in a fantastic workforce. It is one of the most | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
productive plants anywhere in Europe but if they can't make money because | :42:55. | :43:12. | |
of 10% tariffs being slapped upon the man they don't have proper | :43:13. | :43:14. | |
access to the single market because, don't forget, 80% of Nissan products | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
are exported into the European single market, they will re-evaluate | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
future investment. Isn't it swings and roundabouts with tariffs? No, | :43:19. | :43:20. | |
you would get a boost from sterling devaluation exporting out, but a lot | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
of our supply chain we have to import and we would get a double | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
whammy when it comes to that. It is concerning for manufacturing. We | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
have to leave it there. We buy a lot more from Europe than we sell to | :43:33. | :43:33. | |
them. Now the aftershocks of Labour's | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
defeat at the Copeland by-election continue, | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
not least with debate over But where does it leave | :43:38. | :43:38. | |
the party in the North? Labour needs to win a series | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
of target seats to secure any But rather than make gains, | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
the experience of Copeland suggests the party could struggle to hold | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
onto some of those For centuries it has been a bastion | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
of religious authority, home to Auckland Castle, | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
the ancient seat of the Bishop of Durham, and when it comes | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
to its politics too, this town has been | :44:02. | :44:03. | |
a place of tradition. Bishop Auckland has had a Labour | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
MPs since the 1930s, with its mining and industrial | :44:08. | :44:09. | |
history, that's no surprise, but after the party was booted out | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
of another Northern stronghold, at Copeland, could a seat | :44:13. | :44:14. | |
like this be next? Labour's defeat in West Cumbria | :44:15. | :44:16. | |
was preceded by rumbles of voter discontent with Jeremy Corbyn, | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
and here in County Durham it wasn't Jeremy Corbyn, in my opinion, | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
I think, comes across as airy fairy and I honestly don't believe | :44:27. | :44:36. | |
that he gets what it's He doesn't come across as too posh | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
or upper class, he just... Living in this area, | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
were always been Labour, but... Well, as I say, I don't think | :44:47. | :44:56. | |
he's much of a leader. Do think this area | :44:57. | :45:07. | |
could go Conservative? I'm not too sure about that | :45:08. | :45:09. | |
but I think maybe Labour might have Labour's next challenge | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
here is to defend its council This Jeremy Corbyn supporter | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
insists the anti-austerity We have to have policies which will | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
break the cycle of poverty, which will break austerity and get | :45:20. | :45:29. | |
us to a point where we are doing things that make | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
this country function. Is Jeremy Corbyn a vote | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
winner or a vote loser The area's MP is more | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
critical of her leader. I think what Jeremy could do a bit | :45:41. | :45:49. | |
more effectively is be pro-industry and business | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
and the productive economy. That's what we are doing locally | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
in Durham, in our area, and I think that's what he needs | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
to do at a national level. If Copeland's nearly 7% swing | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
from Labour to Conservative happened more widely it would be enough | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
to unseat Labour in Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
Darlington, Hartlepool is also a Labour | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
marginal, although it has There was great fear before | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
and after the 2015 General Election in Labour circles that Ukip | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
would eat into its vote, but arguably what we've seen | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
in the last two by-elections and a general sense of politics | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
is that Labour enemy is the enemy it's always been, | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
the Conservative Party. Local Tories say the Prime | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
Minister's County Durham connections I think Labour face more of a threat | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
from the Conservatives under Theresa May because she is from | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
a more ordinary background, she has spent time up here, | :46:49. | :46:50. | |
she lived up here for a couple of years when she was a candidate | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
in North West Durham. She knows her way around Consett | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
and that general area. It is an region famous | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
for its deep allegiances, but increasingly buffeted | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
by changing political weather. Yours is a vulnerable seat, albeit | :47:04. | :47:20. | |
it is Ukip in second place, not the Conservatives, is it fair to say | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
that you and a handful of other Labour MPs in this region will be | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
worried by what happened in Copeland? I don't think you can put | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
a gloss on Copeland, you would expect midterm into Parliament when | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
we want to get into government that we should be at least retaining | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
these kind of seats, if not massively increasing our majority, | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
so of course it is a concern. We need to have a good and hard look at | :47:42. | :47:52. | |
what happened, the reasons for this, and make sure ultimately that we | :47:53. | :47:54. | |
offer a manifesto and some policies that the voters of the Northeast can | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
really get attracted to. We will come back to solutions in a moment | :47:58. | :47:59. | |
and the Conservatives might be getting excited by this result. | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
By-elections are peculiar and this was a particularly peculiar one | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
because of the nuclear industry being invulnerable because of what | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
Jeremy Corbyn said in the past. You are not going to sweep across the | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
North, are you? I would not disagree with that but you would expect the | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
opposition party to do very well in a by-election against a parliament | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
that has been in power for seven years. When I look across the | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
north-east there are a number of seats in places like Bishop Auckland | :48:27. | :48:28. | |
the Conservatives could be the Conservatives could be | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
successful in the next election. There are three years to go but is | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
not just Copeland, there was a by-election this week with a big | :48:36. | :48:44. | |
swing to the Conservatives and ten and a half percent swing in my | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
are not isolated. The problem is are not isolated. The problem is | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, you have to get rid of him. It is great for my party and | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
excited for the Conservatives in this region but it is bad for | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
democracy because he is not an effective Leader of the Opposition. | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
It is important for the country. We need a better leader than we have | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
now. One of the problems the electorate would have if we went | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
into another leadership contest is that we'll we are inward looking and | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
we are not thinking about the voters and I think that would be deeply | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
damaging for democracy as one of the Labour Party. We need to be outward | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
looking. You had some of the views of the people in Bishop Auckland, it | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
wasn't hard to find Labour voters with negative views your leader. He | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
may not be the cause of all of your party 's ills but he isn't the | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
solution, Izzy? It is true to say that a leader provides a town and | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
leadership and it is very important leadership and it is very important | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
to it at the top. Is that happening at the moment? I don't think you can | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
blame completely Jeremy Corbyn. We need to look at what else is going | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
on. It is policies that can really attract and motivate people of the | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
north-east to go out and vote. Have you been happy of the response of | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
Jeremy Corbyn under the people in the leadership team since the | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
by-election? Are they taking the lessons on board? I haven't seen any | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
evidence of that, if I'm honest I haven't seen them talk | :50:09. | :50:23. | |
about a postmortem in terms of what happens. Whether it is happening at | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
a level of which I am not invited, I don't know, but I think we do as a | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
party... This is not good enough, let's be brutally honest. The | :50:30. | :50:31. | |
Copeland result, and I am not blaming the staff because laboured | :50:32. | :50:33. | |
altering the by-election and took two months out of their lives and | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
worked incredibly hard, all credit to their professionalism but it is a | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
case of as politicians raising our game. There was an important point | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
which is not just Jeremy Corbyn, identity is up to the job of leading | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
the Labour Party and the opposition, he is a disaster, but there is a | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
bigger problem underlying out. In the EU referendum every Labour MP in | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
Teesside fought to remain and every vote taken constituency in Teesside | :50:57. | :51:04. | |
voted to leave. That is divisive. Most Labour voters still voted | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
remain. The conservative roots in this region are pretty shallow in | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
some places still. You need to actually win a seat in the County | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
Council elections in Durham in places like that and the Tees Valley | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
Nehra H, to prove the Conservatives are... It would be great to win the | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
Tees Valley Mayor and that would be a shock result but we have a great | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
candidate with every chance. These are the things that when I stood in | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
me, I had been predicted to lose my me, I had been predicted to lose my | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
seat twice by the BBC in both elections I have fought and the BBC | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
has every time said it. The BBC in this region often doesn't quite | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
recognise what is happening but you are an exception! The Labour Party | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
establishment is becoming increasingly detached from the | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
people who have traditionally supported it. Look at Harry Jones | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
has just answered that, in terms of his own political career. The | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
political cycle moves quickly so the notion that the Conservatives can | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
get complacent and arrogant is completely the wrong approach. If we | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
challenge and we have those policies Twenty20 is all to play for. There | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
is plenty of time still to discuss all of that before then. | :52:14. | :52:14. | |
While the recriminations over Labour's defeat continued, | :52:15. | :52:16. | |
the new Conservative MP for Copeland took her seat in the | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
Here's that and the rest of the stories making the news | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
Durham Tees Valley Airport should be brought back into public ownership, | :52:23. | :52:31. | |
so says Ben Houchen, the Conservative candidate to be | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
It currently 89% owned by Peel Airports, with five councils | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
Rival candidates say the Tory plan is unworkable. | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
MPs and unions have expressed their concern after Walker's crisps | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
announced plans to shut its Peterlee factory with the loss | :52:48. | :52:49. | |
Easington MP Graham Morris called it a bitter blow. | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
The new Conservative MP for Copeland, Trudy Harrison has | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
been sworn into the Commons after winning the seat from Labour | :52:59. | :53:00. | |
I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
her heirs and successors, according to law, so help me God. | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
And finally Sunderland has put its council tax up by nearly 5% | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
and announced ?46 million of new savings. | :53:22. | :53:36. | |
Let us talk about the Tees Valley Airport and your Conservative | :53:37. | :53:44. | |
candidate. This is a conservative suggestion of a private business | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
being taken into public hands. You prepared to back this? I think it is | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
great that he has put this on the agenda, it is front and square of | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
the mayoral election. Politicians in Teesside have been trying to ignore | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
the airport for years and I know because I fought a lonely battle | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
myself in trying to get it higher up the agenda and concerns about its | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
head, but it is clear that what has happened in recent years has not | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
been working. It is clear that something needs to change. There are | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
concerns about the owner, their management has not been an | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
unmitigated success so here is a plan to get a grip and do something | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
about it and save our airport so Ben Houchen deserves credit for it and I | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
will support him. There are other candidates! Loads of public money | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
then goes to the private sector under this plan and you are left | :54:36. | :54:37. | |
trying to revive an airport that is on its last legs, let's be honest. | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
Is that a responsible? Of labour were suggesting that you would be | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
all over it? I think we would be supporting it. Where will you get | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
the money from two revive the airport and get lots of hair | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
operators? It is currently a loss-making airport and then I will | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
get additional money into Teesside. There was a big opportunity to make | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
the airport a success. As recently as 2007 over one million passengers | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
a year were going through it and it has been allowed to decline, under | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
the watch of a company that currently has it, for whatever | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
reason, and it is about something was done we should put it back on | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
the agenda. It is a bold action to solve a problem. It is ill thought | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
through an absolutely appalling. The Labour Party nomination for the Tees | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
Valley Mayor is absolutely insane right thing in saying this will not | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
solve the problem. If anything, council tax payers of the local area | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
will have to bail it out even more figures ahead. It is losing ?2 | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
million a year at the moment is losing market share to the likes of | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
Newcastle Airport so there needs to be a plan, that is true, but I don't | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
think that works. What is the alternative? As the Minister for the | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
Northern Powerhouse, you said this was a priority No what did you do | :55:56. | :56:07. | |
about this? We stopped it going under a few years ago but is very | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
difficult to make a private ownership country do what you want | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
to do with it. That is the point. It will not affect council tax payers | :56:14. | :56:15. | |
because the money doesn't come from them but you need a good long-term | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
strategy in place. And every engagement I had with the company | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
that owned it the ultimate answer was that they were in charge, they | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
wouldn't even rename it Teesside airport despite a huge public demand | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
for that. That seems to be the other way round from the usual argument | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
Now, there's been howls of outrage about business rates recently, | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
They say a new property valuation, the first for seven years, | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
will push up business rates and hit small traders. | :56:42. | :56:43. | |
But here in the North it looks like a slightly different story. | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
Government figures suggest business rates will fall | :56:47. | :56:47. | |
So is it a welcome shot in the arm for our high streets, | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
or could there be a sting in the tail? | :56:53. | :56:54. | |
Julie owns this restaurant and cafe in Whitley Bay on Tyneside | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
and she thinks it is about to be given a big boost, | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
We were paying well over ?1,000 a month for our business rates | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
which was actually working out more than our rent, so it | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
It was our biggest bill, and it's now coming in around | :57:09. | :57:19. | |
about ?350 a month which is just so much more manageable. | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
Another winner is this soft play and cafe also in Whitley Bay. | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
Leanne has just taken over and may be about to | :57:27. | :57:28. | |
What I'm paying now is ?350 a month in what I should be paid | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
when the new rates come in is zero, nothing, mine should | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
It will make a massive difference as being a small, new business, | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
the rates I'm paying at the moment are very, very steep. | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
Businesses like Leanne's and Julie's are not likely to be the only ones | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
The government estimates business rate will go down | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
across the North East by 11%, due to revaluation. | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
In the retail sector the estimated overall drop in the region of 16%. | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
For industry bills could reduce by 9%, and more firms | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
But not everyone is a winner and many dispute those | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
government estimates, and one place trying to fillet | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
surviving and thriving on the high street after more than 100 years. | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
Its owner is not convinced it will get to keep | :58:24. | :58:25. | |
The valuation is going to go up just near-on ?1,000 | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
so but with having no notification, and it's due to come | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
into effect on April 1st, we don't know where we are, | :58:36. | :58:37. | |
where we stand, how much extra we are going to have to pay. | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
Uncertainty like that has led some to call for business rates | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
in their current form to be given the chop, even if firms | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
in the North East do well from the valuation this time. | :58:47. | :58:49. | |
Every time there's a change and it creates some winners, | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
it also creates losers because government determines | :58:53. | :58:59. | |
in advance how much money it wants to make out of this tax and then | :59:00. | :59:02. | |
just divides up which individual businesses are going | :59:03. | :59:04. | |
There's no other tax that works in that same way and it doesn't bear | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
any relation to businesses' ability to pay. | :59:10. | :59:11. | |
Under pressure from firms that are losing out, | :59:12. | :59:13. | |
the government is promising to offer extra help, but those who have done | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
well are hoping the whole process won't be thrown into reverse. | :59:18. | :59:28. | |
Iain, this looks like good news for the region, doesn't it? It is good | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
in many respects that businesses generally in the north will pay less | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
however, as Ross Smith said from the Northeast Chambers of commerce, this | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
is a bad tax that actually dis- incentivise is investment and | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
innovation. We are manufacturing sector. Businesses have to pay tax | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
they? In terms of business rates what is the purpose of it and how | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
will it incentivise businesses to invest in the latest plant and | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
machinery to make them more competitive? On the business select | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
committee we have just read juiced a support of industrial strategy and | :00:06. | :00:07. | |
called for a thorough review of business rates because it is | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
penalising those firms, particularly penalising those firms, particularly | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
in the manufacturing sector, who want to invest in new kit. Their tax | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
bill cannot be good for our ongoing competitiveness. Yourself and | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
colleagues are many completely about this but isn't it redistribution of | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
income? There was good news across the Northeast and that is welcome | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
but with any change there are winners and losers and there are | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
companies and small businesses that will be negatively affected, just as | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
there are unfortunately in our region, many more. There is an | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
appeals process and the valuation office they can go through and we | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
need to see where it will get to. Is that enough? There was a suggestion | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
of more measures? We don't know yet. We need to know what the impact is | :00:52. | :00:59. | |
under the stand in its totality. Many businesses still not everyone | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
is our winner but large numbers are and it is good for our region and a | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
welcome shift but we have to look at those who are not winning and not | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
doing better as a result make sure they get appropriate support. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
Doesn't the system just need overhauling? There is an argument | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
all taxes have up-and-down site and all taxes have up-and-down site and | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
the situation that Iain alluded to is one that has compelling list to | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
it. We have two boost manufacturing and we need the link with local | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
government finance, government policy is to move to 100% of the | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
tension of business rates from local authorities, but if we see a drop in | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
the north-east it means local councils here will have even worse | :01:42. | :01:42. | |
figures. And that's about it | :01:43. | :01:42. | |
from us for this week. We're back same time, | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
same place next Sunday need Crossrail as well. We will be | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
poring over the entrails of the budget next week. Thank you very | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
much indeed. So the Brexit Bill is back in | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
the Lords next week and the Lib Dems They've ordered pizza and camp beds | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
to encourage their peers to keep talking all night, | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
only to be told by the Lord's authorities that their plans fall | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
foul of health and safety laws. Laws that they probably voted for. | :02:09. | :02:21. | |
What did you make of David Liddington's remarks on the Lords | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
amendments, particularly not just the one on EU nationals, but on what | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
is regarded as a meaningful vote at the end of the process? Let's be | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
clear, as ministers like to say, the meaningful vote vote is by far the | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
biggest thing that will happen in Parliament. It puts EU citizens into | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
a tiny corner. It will decide not just who is going to have the final | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
say on this, but who the EU is negotiating with. Is it directly | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
with Theresa May or is it with Parliament? Who will decide the | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
shape of Brexit, Parliament or Theresa May? The Lords amendment is | :03:01. | :03:08. | |
just the first chapter. They have voiced Theresa May to give them a | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
veto on everything she does, and there is a possible chance in the | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
Commons could uphold this amendment. The meaningful vote amendment? The | :03:17. | :03:24. | |
meaningful vote amendment. But is it a meaningful vote if the choice is | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
to either back the deal or crash out of the deal? That is what the remain | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
supporting MPs or hardline people who want to remain fear. What they | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
want is the power to be able to send Theresa May back to the negotiating | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
table. Why is that anathema to many Brexit supporters? They believed it | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
would crucially and critically undermine Theresa May's negotiating | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
hand and also create a long period of uncertainty for business. There | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
is already great uncertainty and this could extend it. The | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
government's position is in there was a proper, meaningful vote which | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Parliament could reject what was on offer, that would be an incentive to | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
the EU to give us a bad deal? I think that is the fear. If you are | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
saying to the people you are negotiating with that that is | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
another authority and Theresa May will have to go back and have all of | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
this approved, I think it would have a very significant undermining | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
effect on her negotiating hand. Things change from day to day. We | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
are talking about 2019 and 2018 at the earliest, but if the government | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
lost a vote on the Brexit deal, would he not have to call in someone | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
else? That is why the vote will be meaningful even if the amendment on | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
this meaningful vote will be lost. You cannot do a deal on something as | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
historic as Brexit and have Parliament against you. So, whatever | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
form this vote takes, whenever it happens, it will be hugely | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
meaningful. Whatever label that is given and if she lost it she would | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
call a general election. She could not impose it. To call a general | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
election now you need a majority of MPs which she will not have, so | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
maybe she will not get her election after all. It would be very unlike | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
Labour not to vote for an election. It would be very unlike Labour not | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
to vote for an election. The elections to Stormont have given | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
a boost to the republicans and put the long term status | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
of Northern Ireland in some doubt. Sinn Fein's leader Gerry Adams | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
spoke to reporters Yesterday was in many, | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
many ways a watershed election, and we have just started a process | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
of reflecting what it all means, but clearly the union's majority | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
in the Assembly has been ended, and the notion of a permanent | :05:59. | :06:14. | |
or a perpetual unionist majority Is he right? Is this a watershed? | :06:15. | :06:27. | |
The nationalist vote in the assembly will now come to 39 and the | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
Unionists 38. It is only one member, but it is significant. This is a | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
very serious moment and because of everything else going on with Donald | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
Trump and Brexit it is taking a while for people here to realise | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
just how significant this is. Talking to someone who only recently | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
left a significant role in Northern Ireland politics last night, they | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
said they were very worried about what this means. It is likely there | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
will be a call for some kind of international figure to chair the | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
talks to try and see if there is a way of everybody working together. | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
All sides will probably try to extract more money from the | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
Treasury, but it is a very dangerous moment. Should we regard Michelle | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
O'Neill, who has replaced Mr McGuinness as the leader, it is she | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
the First Minister death probably not quite. An interesting thought. | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
Indeed, the daughter of an IRA man, a fascinating concept in itself. But | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
there are are still a large amount of MLAs who will not give Sinn Fein | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
what they need. But what effect does this have on the legacy of the | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
prosecutions and the great witchhunts which the British | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
Government has vowed to end. There is a majority left on the Stormont | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
assembly to end those. But some would keep them going for time | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
continuing, which is a headache for Theresa May. You have now got 27 | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
Sinn Fein members, 28 DUP, then the SDLP bumps up the numbers a little | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
bit. You have got the British Government transfixed with Brexit | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
which has huge implications for the border between North and South in | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Ireland, and the Irish government is pretty wavering as well and if there | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
is an election there, Sinn Fein could do well in the Dublin | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
parliament as well. There are a lot of moving pieces. There are and | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
there is a danger that we look at everything through the prism of | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Brexit, but I found Friday and this weekend fascinating. Theresa May and | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
Scotland were Nicola Sturgeon is framing Brexit entirely through an | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
argument to have a second referendum on independence which she wants to | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
hold it she possibly can. And the Irish situation with the prospect of | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
a hard border with Northern Ireland voting majority to remain, quite a | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
substantial majority, again a few of the instability at the moment. That | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
We will be keeping an eye on it for sure. | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Yesterday, US President Donald Trump tweeted allegations | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
that his predecessor, Barack Obama, had ordered | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
his phones to be tapped during the election campaign. | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
"Terrible!", Trump wrote, "Just found out that Obama | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
I'm not quite sure what McCarthyism that is. | :09:34. | :09:47. | |
He followed up with a series of tweets comparing it to Watergate. | :09:48. | :09:49. | |
"How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
The sacred election process, I think at one stage he said it was a dodgy | :09:57. | :10:09. | |
election process, but now it is sacred. | :10:10. | :10:10. | |
You are frightened to go to bed at night, you do not know what you are | :10:11. | :10:23. | |
going to wake up to. Completely uncharted territory here. Little | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
more than a month ago at the inauguration they were making the | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
veneer of small talk and politely shaking hands. He saw Barack Obama | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
and Michelle off on the helicopter. You do not know what is coming next. | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
Is there a scintilla of evidence to back up Donald Trump's claims? Yes, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
there is, although he is very muddled about it all. I will | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
explain. Remember what happened to Mike Flynn, talking to the Russian | :10:55. | :11:07. | |
and Ambassador will stop they were listening. Barack Obama does not | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
sign of warrants, but somebody else did. So why on earth would you not | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
want to listen to the president elect himself in case he might also | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
be breaking the law. Does that sound to you like convincing evidence or | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
just a supposition? I think Tom should go and work for him, that is | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
the most credible interpretation I have heard for a long time. Start | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
tweeting the case for the tweet. What is interesting about this is my | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
theory is he does not really like the idea of being a president. That | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
wild press conference he gave a couple of weeks ago there was one ad | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
lib that did not get repeated which was, I suppose I am a politician | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
now, as if he was humiliated at the idea of being a president. He likes | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
being the businessman with a swagger tweeting around the clock. And | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
campaigning again. He keeps going to what looked like campaign rallies. I | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
disagree with you about him not liking being president. I think he | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
loves the idea of being the president, but the reality is so | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
frustrating on every level, finding he does not have unlimited room for | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
manoeuvre and so many things have been put in place to stop them doing | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
things he would do in the business environment. We have had two more | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
tweets from him this morning, I guess when he woke up. Who was it | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
who secretly said to the Russian president, tell Vladimir that after | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
the election I will have more flexibility? Who was that? Possibly | :12:42. | :12:50. | |
Hillary Clinton. Is it true the Democratic National committee would | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
learning it was hacked? Can that be possible? This was all an issue in | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
the campaign. He is now a president. Shall I point out the flaw in Tom's | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
theory. They were not bugging Michael Flynn's phone, it was the | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
Russian Ambassador's telephone they were barking. Mr Neil, I would never | :13:12. | :13:21. | |
contradict you on this programme. But if you suspect there was | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
criminal activity going on, as there was by Michael Flynn, why would you | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
not want to put on a tap? I don't know. That is it for today. | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
I'll be back next week here on BBC One at 11am as usual. | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday on BBC Two. | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
But remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:44. | :13:51. |