04/03/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland

Good afternoon and welcome to the Sunday Politics. Our top story.

Could wrangling in the coalition over the budget end with a new

mansion tax and the scrapping of the 50 p tax rate? I will be

speaking to the new Lib Dem Business Minister Norman Lamb.

Alex Salmond tells me he is so confident of winning a referendum

on Scottish independence, he will kick off the yes campaign this May.

Scotland's First Minister joins us for the Sunday interview.

As the price of petrol reaches record highs, should the Chancellor

cut fuel duty? A petrol head and a green campaigner go head to head.

And our political panel of the best and brightest, here every week to

analyse British politics in the week ahead and tweeting throughout

the programme. Scottish Labour shrugs off the sackcloth and ashes

as Johann Lamont talks wealth redistribution, social justice and

re-engaging with the unions. And was Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg

feeling the love at the party conference in Inverness, the former

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1492 seconds

stronghold wiped out in the People are spending more. Clothing,

food, household goods. You have moved the money from

spending on flu ordure t two spending on other things. What to

be wrong with that? If you look at the long term, if you are going to

spend money on things like this, you should spend it on getting

people out of car dependency. Any cut is just going to be followed up

by speculation. What you need to be spending money on his reversing bus

cuts, cutting inflation and rises in train fares. If you have not got

a car, and you local bus service has been cut, you cannot go

anywhere at all. A most of us do have a car, why should we have to

pay more than our European neighbours? I would accept the

delay in any further increase. But a cut is effectively Government

spending. That should be spent on getting us out of this problem.

will give people a relief that socially. Since 1997, the overall

cost of motoring, unlike the public transport sector, has fallen.

that to the people who write to me who are saying that because the

commute, they have had to give up their job. It as a deeply serious

issue that is the emasculating the economy, stopping people going to

work and interviews. High off of all -- half of all families in

poverty do not have a car and that is made even worse by the lack of

public transport. We have got to develop a transport system, but it

will take as 10 years and probably 100 billion it to do that. It is

important that the catch up. A cut in fuel duty would not help that.

But it would help ordinary families. He so would organising better bus

services. We have to have other ways of getting about. It will cost

hundreds of billions of pounds. doing are gradually, it would be

affordable. It is laudable and we should be doing it, but that will

not help now. We used to see that it was almost... Their due duty is

lower in real terms and it wasn't 2009 so you have had your cut.

of the price of fuel goes on tax. It does make business more

expensive. It is making us less competitive. Few prices will only

go up and the future. In that long term, we needed to reduce their

dependence of our economy on oil. How would you pay for it? You have

to find the money to pay for the fuel duty? A I would increase

economic activity. By reducing duty,... We will have to leave it

Good afternoon and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up

on the programme. Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems are in conference

groove this weekend. What plans and policies are they hatching? Johann

Lamont joins us to explain Labour's new strategy here. Off with

sackcloth and ashes and on with social justice and equality.

And as Scotland fights to be the location for the UK'S first green

investment bank, the Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg tells us it could be

built on Mars, what matters is where it invests. And I am in Wales

to find out why the Scottish referendum has got this country

talking about its own political future.

When Labour gathered in Dundee on Friday, their UK leader Ed Miliband

wanted to talk about the economy. But off-stage, the issue of

Scotland's constitutional future just wouldn't go away. Johann

Lamont used her first conference speech as leader to announce a new

commission on further devolution within the UK. Niall O'Gallagher

Labour say their position is not desperate. But they have not got

much to laugh about after last year's defeat in the local

elections. That would simply guarantee another defeat. The

threat so to Scotland are two great and the risks are to deal for

Scottish Labour to settle for a quiet life of decline and a defeat.

We need it to change and change radically, not to disavow our

greatest beliefs. Scotland is giving Ed Miliband a headache. He

knows the independence would make it difficult for him to become

Prime Minister. But he is also concerned about plans to devolve

further tax to Holyrood. The SNP say that be want Scandinavian level

of public services. But you cannot create that if you are asking for

Irish levels of corporation tax. That is the reality. Then came a

plea to Scottish voters not to accept the Nationalist portrayal of

England as a Tory nation of. must reject attempts to divide our

country by ideology or geography. We are not left wing Scotland and

right wing England. We are one Ed Miliband largely stayed away

from the debate on more powers for Scotland in the United Kingdom and

whether support for such a question should be on the referendum ballot

paper. But his remarks on Labour's Scottish leader Johann

Lamont went to Aberdeen University to read the future of their video

games industry. It will have to be if the manoeuvring over Scotland's

future is set to dominate her leadership. She allows a commission

to look at devolution would they mack the United Kingdom. Our ideals

endured. But we have to strengthen the United Kingdom and Scotland's

place in Ed. Before we do that, we must take to the country the case

for Scotland remaining in the United Kingdom. Labour did not want

to spend this conference talking about the constitution. But with a

referendum on the horizon, they did not have much choice. We insist

that they are united on the issue of more powers, but we still do not

know what kind of devolution settlement they will be arguing for

when the referendum comes. Johann -- a Johann Lamont joins us

live now. What kind of radical proposals were you be coming up

with? I said that the choice in powers is not about how many powers

we can gather at the Scottish Parliament, it is about what works

in the interests of the people of Scotland. The devolution commission

will look at everything, tested against the evidence of their

impact on people's jobs and the economy. And corporation tax?

feels to me, and this is the case that we will look at, if you have

corporation tax, the only people that benefit are those who do not

want to pay corporation tax. It feels a good deal for businesses

but not for public services. But we will look and examine in detail the

consequences of this. You could always a raise corporation tax?

could raise corporation tax. You will end up at the same place

however. You will have competition across the United Kingdom. I am not

sure that is a rational way to run the economy. I did say that London

is one of the strongest and wealthiest hubs in the world. And

we are going to go into competition him with London and? Just to

clarify here, are you saying that if you raise corporation tax in

Scotland, you will have competition across the UK? The logic of having

corporation tax set at different levels across the United Kingdom or

feels to me that we will end up in a place with wasteful competition.

And a race to the bottom. But we will interrogate those options,

look at and examine the consequences of any of these models

other Test will be, is it in their interest of the people of Scotland,

will it create jobs and a stronger economy? I am sorry for the delay

on this line. You were talking about London being one of the

richest international hubs. It is quite a tricky area for Labour to

go into. You said, London is one of the register international hubs,

you could go down the road of perpetuating the myth of saying

that Scotland is too poor to compete? I do not accept that. The

United Kingdom is a partnership, we work in corporation. Where there is

lead, resources are distributed towards that made. That seems to be

to be a logical and rational. It is all the if you define yourself

entirely within the countries within the United Kingdom that that

it becomes at are the core concept to hold onto. In a difficult

economic times, coming together is the best place for the people of

Scotland. I am not talking Scotland down. The people of Scotland may

choose to separate from the rest of the United Kingdom, but we have to

have a rational debate about the strengths of being part of the

United Kingdom and the consequences of separation. He two-thirds of

people questioned recently said they wanted more taxation powers to

go to Holyrood. That is why I have established a devolution commission

and why I am committed to looking at those are right. It is not about

accumulating powers in the Scottish Parliament, it is how those powers

are used to. Do you their tax take has to be higher than it now is?

think we have to look at how, employ of times, we spend our money.

Equality is not just for when the sun shines. But you come out Lyme

how you want to spend it, but how do you want to raise it. -- outline.

You have a very ambitious programme of what you want to do. People will

be wondering where that money will come from? Should the tax take the

higher? The if you have a strong economy and strong economic

activity, you will have more money to spend. That is the impact.

in the meantime? Until then, we have to do with the situation that

we are in. The difficulty that I think we have a relation to council

tax, the Scottish government is committed to a council tax freeze

but they are not funded it. That is the challenge that our councils are

us facing at this time. Should we be looking at them, when it

Scotland is considering where it goes, should we be looking at

targeting businesses more, raising corporation tax? Troubles the sort

of areas that should be looked at? I think you have to look at all of

these things. There was something you said in your speech that you

were going to look at the whole system of selecting candidates, how

they come forward and how the party brings them on. You said that the

party machine could stifle talent, what did you mean by that? I think

like all political parties we end up becoming obsessed with the

machine and the bureaucracy of making decisions when in fact

people want to be engaged with the political debate and active in

understanding how people live their lives. We need to open up our

structures. It does mean that unless you are prepared to sit

through 100 different meetings about matters arising you tend to

think you will perhaps not bother. We need to create a culture that

refreshes the idea of why political parties exist and encourage people

to engage in politics. That is really part of the whole of our job.

In terms of who actually goes on to represent Labour in Scotland, do

you think that sitting MPs and MSPs should be more open to challenge

rather than the situation at the moment where they just get rubber-

stamped by the constituency party? No one who has a Labour candidate

or or Labour elected member has a job for life. Any Labour candidate

has to earn the right to be a candidate. How do you enforce that

practical issue? I think we have to set a standard and engage with our

elected members. We have spoken about contracts for elected members

which I think is one way that it can be done. It is critically

important that elected members are engaged with and involved with

their constituents and also in engaging with the important

political debates of the day. terms of setting standards, Eric

Joyce says he will not contest the next election, do you think he

should stand down before then? have been very clear that the

allegations made against him suggest an abuse of trust in his

position. We cannot make him stand down but I think people would

expect him to do the right thing. Which in your opinion is to stand

down? I think the people of Falkirk deserved a representative that

reaches the standards we would expect of somebody in elected

position. So is that a yes that he should stand down? It is my view

that he should stand down but that is not under my control. I believe

that his actions are those of someone who is not fit to represent

people. Are you confident that you would win a by-election there if

Eric Joyce stands down as you want? We are confident in Labour's

message. All will we lost the last election we did not lose our values

or our commitment to the people of Scotland. That is the case we

should take to the people if there is by election. Her have you spoken

to Eric Joyce? No. So how have you managed to satisfy yourself as to

his version of events before you make a decision to that he should

stand down now? What I have said is that if the allegations are true

then in my view he is not fit to be a Labour candidate for a Labour MP.

Can I ask you about D Green Investment Bank, do you think the

referendum debate makes that more or less likely? I think in general

terms the debate on the referendum must now move beyond process. I

have said I want a referendum earlier rather than later because I

am concerned for the uncertainty and businesses have come out and

said that in recent weeks. We need to get on to the core of the debate

as to what Scotland would look like in the case of independence. You do

not have a debate as to whether Scotland being independent would

sweep the Westminster banks? I am supportive of the United Kingdom,

Scotland strong, and shading the benefits of investment across the

UK. I would clearly prefer Scotland within the United Kingdom with a

green investment bank coming to Scotland. 500 days rather than

1,000 days after the consultation ends, is that a timescale you would

time -- sign up to? I started off with my new year message which

feels like a very long time ago seeing that we should make 2012 the

year of the referendum. The process should be started and we should

make a decision in 2013. I think it is a debate that needs to be

brought forward. Thank you very much indeed. The issue of

independence has also been a central thread running through the

Liberal Democrats' Scottish conference. Activists say the party

is bouncing back from its drubbing in last year's Scottish

parliamentary elections. A striking combination of plush visuals and

knife-edge drama. Not quite the Lib Dems Scottish conference but the

venue shows films to. After their dismal showing in last year's

elections this could have been the main showing this weekend but the

party seemed to have a spring in its step. We got a drubbing last

year, there are no two weighs about that. We did not put our message

forward terribly well. People are picking themselves up and getting

on with it. What has been exercising the minds of the party

faithful this weekend? The elephant in the room is one the Liberal

Democrats did not invite, the SNP plans for an independence

referendum, that has popped up in just about every single keynote

address. I C two D SNP, quit stalling, let's work together, get

the wheels in motion and allow people to decide their future in

500 days. -- I say to the SNP. timing of the referendum should be

dictated by Scotland's national interest. My hope and that of my

party is that the people of Scotland choose to stay within the

United Kingdom. As an English man I believe that our countries are much

stronger together than they would be a part. We all in Scotland want

to get on with this debate. Let's have it sooner rather than later.

It seems to me perfectly adequate that we could do this within 500

days. We do not need to wait the best part of three years. Despite

this eagerness to push Alex Salmond towards an early poll in the

corridors and bars I felt a lack of buyers at this conference. The

speeches and debates were worthy and largely well attended but where

was the passion? I do not think Liberal Democrats get up and shout

about it, they get on and do it. I had a good conversation with Vince

Cable which was gentle but informative. That is our starting

block. We are not going to get up and shout, we are quietly

passionate. Politicians have got their heads buried in the sand. We

have to try every avenue we can to get them to wake up and changed

policy, change direction and stop wrecking our heritage. You can

often judge party conference by the number of exhibitors or lobbyists

keen to push their point of view and products. You in Inverness this

weekend they seem to be a bit thin on the ground. I think it is a bit

quieter than in Perth last year. There are certainly more people but

there seems to be less of the third sector, the voluntary sector this

time round. The party in Scotland has moved on from the shock of last

May when their number in Holyrood was sliced from 17 to just five.

That was then, this is now, say activists. The council elections

beckon in just a few weeks and the Lib Dems are confident. The theatre

posters may just see it all. I spoke to Nick Clegg just after his

speech. He opened by saying liberals from the Highlands and

Islands have always been at the heart of the party. So, was the

loss of every seat in the bastion of Highland liberalism a price

worth paying for a coalition Government? If anyone has an easy

alternative to the current economic plight of the country stick it on a

postcard and send it to me. The Two's says there are no easy

solutions. We have inherited this economic mess from Labour where the

banks gorged themselves on bonuses and pushed the economy right to the

edge. We in this Government happen to be dead people who have to start

putting the pieces back together again. It requires unpopular

decisions and controversial decisions. My judgment is doing

best repair job to the economy is our first duty. I make no apologies

at all in seeing that four time to time it is not bad for politicians

to do the right thing. It might not easy to do the right thing in the

national interest. I certainly feel that even those people who were

angry last year are at least now prepared to accept the motives of

the Liberal Democrats entering the coalition when you compare what is

going on in other countries of the eurozone, ours are good motives.

we look at how some Liberal Democrats in Government conduct

themselves, you mentioned Danny Alexander, you said he is good at

negotiating with the unions, do you sense there are many Lib-Dem voters

who feel that Danny Alexander has engaged in union-bashing with

unseemly haste? First, I would suggest a little sense of humour is

always worthwhile. Not nesses sadly when pensions are going down the

stream? -- ness Sally. -- necessarily. The pension system we

inherited is widely recognised to be unsustainable. I think what

Danny Alexander has done in negotiating a fair pension

settlement with the trade unions is to guarantee public sector pensions

to remain among the best pensions available in the UK. It is an

incredibly Porter and.. You casually suggest that somehow

public sector pensions are being decimated, they are actually being

retained as some of the best. We do not have anything remotely like the

pensions elsewhere. Someone like Danny Alexander is especially

favourable and protective to get a progressive and come. People in the

Highlands, if there are boundary changes, whose lines do you think

time best with the voters here in the Highlands? I think both China

with they're voters. But to do you think will win? I am not going to

pretend that they are at the opposite ends of some political

scale. Perhaps they both believe it is important for people in politics

to combine something that is unique to the Liberal Democrats. There is

nothing feared by simply struggling -- shrugging your folders and

saying we will get our children and grandchildren two p of this debt.

We have to do the hard work for the future demonstrations -- future

generations. The Liberal Democrats have a progressive instinct to

reform the pensions and tax needs. You say you are not stopping at the

Scotland Bill. Is it being overtaken effectively? No. It would

be very odd to spurn the Scotland Bill when it is the largest

transfer of money since the Act of Union. Why not tell people who you

are actually? That is like seeing if you are on a journey you should

not take the first step because you may not take the last step.

Devolution is a process, not a tablet of stone. It is a process

and a debate. If you look at Catalonia in Spain. It is a

constant shifting debate about how many powers devolved from the

centre to the nations. My own view, very clearly, is that you cannot

have that debate. Liberals believe in home rule long before the SNP's

began debating for independence. We set up a commission to seek to

define what home rule looks like. You cannot really have that debate

of further devolution to Scotland or for that matter, Wales, until

you know whether the United Kingdom Without for one moment it turning

one's nose up at a Scotland gaining far greater authority over how

money is raised at unspent. Scots cannot make up their mind about

whether they want to stay in the United Kingdom unless they have a

very clear idea about what the options will be if they say no to

independence. Perhaps it is about treating the electorate in Scotland

as adults. What the SNP is suggesting, that you put the

prospect of independence on the ballot paper, and then you put them

further options on devolution. That is mixing things up and is somewhat

cynical in I -- in my view. It is if they do not have the courage of

their convictions. They want to take out an insurance policy at the

same time. If you have those two Questions, and everyone says yes to

both, which one do you pick? The experience I have had from

referendums and observers also say this, if you want to be grown up

with the electorate, give them a simple choice on a key question. Do

not mix things up. I think everybody can understand that.

There is a simple chronology. First, decide whether Scotland remains in

the United Kingdom, then have this debate which we are kick-starting

hear about further devolution of powers to Scotland. If you look at

the Calman Commission and the Scotland Bill... You think progress

is a rapid and radical? If you look at the progress from the

establishment of the quarry rid of Parliament through to the Scotland

Bill in a matter of years, compared to hundreds of years of nothing

moving at all. Could you explain your comment about not putting

Scotland in a box? The choice of taking Scotland out of the United

Kingdom or keeping things as they are, just advocating the status quo

would be like putting Scotland in a box. If we move onto the green

energy statement, how do deliver that agreeing economic renaissance?

We are delivering that already with hundreds of millions of pounds of

investment into Scotland, producing hundreds and thousands of jobs. We

are innovating as a government, setting up a green investment

bank... Is that definitely coming to Scotland? That announcement will

be made to by Vince Cable. If you want a renaissance in alternative

energy in Scotland, that would be a logical thing to do? There is

competition between different cities and towns over who is to

host the Green Investment Bank. It could be located on Mars, it does

not really matter, because what it does is provide money for renewable

energies. If we get it right, it could mobilise about �15 billion of

money. A real cream investment revolution. And Scotland has these

fantastic natural resources, almost unparalleled in the world. But the

government pulled their funding from the Longannet project on

carbon capture. That project did not work in the way in which it had

been designed. There was a considerable amount of money

invested. I personally believe that carbon it capture projects are

incredibly important. Talking about her energy bills, in the Highlands,

the fuel duty a reduction, Charles Kennedy is saying this should be

extended throughout the whole of the Highlands. In Caithness and

Sutherland, people have to travel for greater distances. Wherever you

go and the country, people see it would be good to extend it. If I

asked my constituents in Sheffield, people would say it would be nice

to have a fuel duty exemption in South Yorkshire as well. Fuel is

very expensive or. We have the highest prices ever. But the pilot

that Danny Alexander has pioneered is incredibly important and he has

made a compelling and successful case that is the areas to which it

applies face quite a unique challenges. So that is a negative -

- and no to the rest of the Highlands? We will have to see how

the pilot works. On Friday, a conference hosted by

The Times in Edinburgh debated the future of the Union. The Sunday

Politics met up with constitutional experts, economists and leading

politicians who debated the issues to sample their views on the future

of Scotland and the independence The union has been in a state of

organic change it ever since 7007. There have been adjustments, --

1707. This could be seen as an attempt to the -- it to be invented

the union. It is not a question of economics. It is a question about

identity. Who do the Scots have think they are? I think the near

future, it is our very interesting conversation for people throughout

this country about who we are, what is the nature of our identity?

There is a technical conversation, how to be run our economies, and

pay for our cells in the future? -- ourselves. Scotland would in

economic terms be in much of the same place as an independent

country as part of the union. Not much better or much worse. There

are some big issues that need to be looked into. Post independence,

would Scotland be a high tax, high spent country, or would it be a

low-tax, low spent country? That has huge implications. For Scotland

to be successful, it is better to do it within the union. But to be

successful, Scotland needs greater fiscal powers. We would suggest

that Scotland is given the wherewithal to raise the money it

needs. It is a revolving Union. It changed a hundred years ago, it

changed 10 years ago. But most people want to have a common

political identity with people in England and Wales. A very strong at

the very reasonable argument can be made for more powers short of

independence. It is not one that I support, but there is an argument

that can be made. But there is no cohesion, no clarity and low sense

of coming-together on the unionist campaign at the moment. There will

be an all-party campaign which will particularly the case for people

staying in the United Kingdom. Canada, in Quebec, they had an

independence referendum. This issue of Scotland's relationship with the

union is one that will be continuously negotiated. Across the

UK, thoughts have been turning to what independence might mean for

the other home nations. This Thursday saw Wales celebrate St

David's Day. We have been finding out why Wales is taking such a keen

It became clear that the Scottish people will vote on independence in

just over two years. It may be Scotland's referendum, but that

cannot be separated from Wales' future. It cannot be underestimated

how a major a ripple effect the current debate is having across the

rest of the UK. Especially in Wales. From the Welsh point of view, of

what would be left would be unrecognisable. If Scotland votes

for independence, Wales would be part -- of a rump. The Welsh

Assembly building sets in Cardiff quo stop some Assembly members say

that the outcome of the Scottish debate is so important that it

cannot be ignored by Welsh unionist politicians. We do not get a boat

in the Scottish referendum, but we need a voice. It has an effect on

what will happen to us in the future. Last year, the Assembly got

power to make laws in devolved areas. Nationalists believe that

they can use the Scottish debate to push for further powers here,

perhaps even independence for Wales. He if the Scottish people board es

in an independence referendum, the United Kingdom will no longer exist.

We need to be thinking what kind of future we have for Wales. There is

a danger that we will remain within a United Kingdom per England is so

completely dominant that are voice will not be heard. -- our voice.

recent BBC Wales and Paul suggests that patriot is it does not

transferred into a national -- into a desire for independence. The

First Minister Carwyn James hosted celebrations for St David's Day in

Brussels. I am ever keen to follow anybody off the edge of a clever

boy stop it is a matter for the people of Scotland what happens

there. We need to look at the structure of the UK now rather than

wait to see what happens in Scotland. It is something that

affects the whole of the UK. comments have been echoed by a

former First Minister of Wales who said that Unionists should campaign

positively across the UK. general, I think it is much easier

and more positive to be campaigning for a yes it to something. It is

either yes to independence, adage should be yes to constitutional

Convention and a commission which determines the funding formula that

determines what Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England get in

terms of tax take. All parties agree that Wales is badly served by

the Barnett formula which is how money is allocated to the devolved

nations. An independent report found a short fall of �300 million

a year missing from the Welsh budget. Scotland is widely regarded

here as being over funded by Barnet. Alex Salmond told me that he would

not support my campaign for a change in the Barnett formula and a

change in the way that the Barnett Formula is allocated unless

Scotland had control of its own oil and gas resources. At the moment,

the Assembly has no control over taxation. But a recent survey

suggests two-thirds of voters wants that to change. The Calman

Commission is considering whether for the powers would be useful for

the Welsh Assembly. And some of the smaller taxes may have come to the

Welsh government. These are children of a devolved to Wales. By

devolution is a process, not an event. The signs are that things

will continue to change. For Scotland does it may go some way to

shipping exactly what those changes I am joined now by an expert in

Welsh politics. What is your impression of the effect of the

Scottish debate in Wales? I think we need to distinguish between the

popular level and the political class. At the popular level it is

not all about Scotland. The Welsh people, having just approved

devolution by the narrowest of margins, have moved quite rapidly

into embracing the concept. One year ago today was when we were

looking at the results of the last referendum. That is not really

impacted by what is happening in Scotland, so far at least. The

political class, on the other hand, is actually increasingly obsessed

with what is going on in Scotland and think this is momentous. Many

of them seem to believe that Scotland will vote yes in a

referendum. They think that Alex Salmond's nationalists are winning

the debate. Therefore, they are very concerned. It does not have

that kind of resonance and the popular level. But imagine what we

have just heard, the Secretary for Wales and former First Minister are

seeing we should have a constitutional convention for the

whole of the UK. We have the present First Minister for Wales

saying that it Scotland goes Independent we should federalising

what remains of the UK. These are very radical solutions. There is a

suggestion that even in Wales the status quo is possibly not an

option in the long term. We have a commission meetings here in Wales

at the moment looking at the issue of proper tax-varying powers. Plaid

Cymru are actually involved in this. They will almost certainly

recommend some form of tax are being powers to Wales. The unions

are very nervous about that and want to look again at the Barnett

formula. People here in Wales believe that gives Wales a bad deal

and we tend to think that Scotland get far too much money out of the

Barnett formula. Linking those things together makes it extremely

difficult for the UK Government to find a way through that. What was

interesting is when you look at the BBC survey about who wanted more

powers, 36 % overall said that there should be. Off fluent Welsh

speakers 54 % said there should be more powers. The identity politics

as it were, someone who identify is very strongly with Wales thinks

there should be more powers? Absolutely, although that has

changed since 1997. At that point that tendency was even more

pronounced. Welsh speakers were overwhelmingly in favour of more

powers than non-Welsh speakers. Wales has become more unified

around this issue than it used to be and less divided along

linguistic lines even though that remains quite a striking Division

looking from the outside. I am sorry, we are out of time on this.

You could write a whole book on this, I know you have. There is a

plug! Now the lunchtime news with Gillian smart. Margaret Curran will

use her speech in Dundee to the Labour conference -- target the

Labour conference. Where is Michael Moore? He is missing in action. He

is hands-on when it comes to welfare cuts. Love can be 8,000

disabled children who will lose their benefits. He has been sitting

with the Tories and it is just not acceptable. Willie Rennie has told

the Lib Dem conference he is prepared to work with the SNP to

deliver more Holyrood powers but only after the 'no' vote on

Scottish Independence. It may be that after the 'no' vote the SNP

can survive the ending of their dream. We and we could well be able

to work together afterwards to shape the future for Scotland. Does

welcome noises we have heard recently from Labour will need to

be nurtured as well. There were allegations in the Sunday newspaper

against Bill Walker over allegations of domestic violence.

Police forces say they have received a number of calls

reporting what is believed to be a meteor. Reports of a bright light

with an orange grove came in in the north of Scotland amid fears that a

plane had crashed. Now the weather forecast. It is a West/East split

in terms of the weather with the band of rain, sleet and snow

finally cleaning from the North Sea coast. There will be sunny spells

and wintry showers in the West. Temperatures around seven Celsius.

It will be a cold night tonight. Tomorrow will be brighter generally.

Probably the best day of the week as it is turning unsettled. That is

all for now. Back to Isabel. In a moment we will be discussing the

big events in Holyrood but firstly a more detailed look back at the

week in 60 seconds. De devo plus campaign called for a substantial

increase in powers for Holyrood. In a statement to Parliament Kenny

MacAskill denied allegations about the release of Abdelbaset al-

Megrahi. I did not suggest to anyone connected with the Libyan

Government ought to Mr al-Megrahi himself that abandoning his appeal

against conviction would in any way eat or affect his application for

compassionate release. The Fraser of Alan institute predicted one in

10 people would be out of a job by the end of the year. This man

admitted posting a picture of Neil Lennon covered in bullet wins on a

social networking site. And now a new season of political conferences

will stop --.. I am joined by the Labour political blogger, Ian Smart.

And that the Liberal Democrat the Scottish Lib Dem blogger, Karen

Lindsay. Thank you for joining us. Do you think all has been forgiven

and forgotten when Nick Clegg walks through the doors at Inverness?

There was nothing to forgive him for. He has led our party into

Government. He is delivering so many of our manifesto promises. He

has cut taxes for people on low and middle incomes. He is putting �60

per month back in people's pockets. I think what I would say about that

is that we need to find another way, people do not feel particularly

rich, but we need to say we pay people's council tax on a couple of

months, fill their car for five times. We have given the biggest

cash rise in State pension this year. Nick Clegg has been

absolutely fantastic. Accepting that you feel that perhaps the

message has not gone out as you would like. I do not want to dwell

on this but Tavish Scott the former leader had said that Nick Clegg's

decision on tuition fees had dried the party into gutter politics.

Other members indicated the coalition came at the wrong time

for the party going into the Holyrood election. Are you really

saying, I think Nick Clegg even in our interview said people were very

angry at some of the choices that had to be made. I think that is

right. The fact that we inherited such a mess from Labour. If the

coalition Government had not taken the action that it had an hour

credit rating would have gone, you have seen what has happened in

Greece and Spain, we would have bigger deficits than they had. It

has been a very, very difficult time. We have had to make difficult

decisions. In some ways we are used to that. Lib Dems have taken power

in places like Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Labour had left the

chronic financial mess. Now Audit Scotland are seeing what a good job

has been done in putting the councils on a surer financial

footing. Ian, what did Johann Lamont have to do and did she do

it? She had to survive and she did. She made a joke about the big

beasts or men, do you think there is too much testosterone floating

about the debate at the moment? I think there is not enough

discussion at the moment. What she had to do was present herself as a

credible alternative First Minister. How far do you think the party has

to go in getting that image across and also interestingly, what Labour

have been trying to do, linking Scottish identity with UK identity,

is that an important path than they have to go now? I think the party

is trying to find its way slowly to the right position on the national

question. The interesting speech was the Douglas Alexander's speech

on the Friday which I think did open up the serious in a more

worthwhile way. I think what Johann Lamont is on her way to do is to

establish herself as a credible leader of the opposition. I think

she has a long way to go to establish herself as a credible

First Minister. Douglas Alexander was trying to be more radical.

Johann Lamont says she is coming up with more radical solutions.

think that is dishonest. There are differing opinions. I am more on

the Douglas -- Danny Alexander side of the argument. Gordon Brown will

be involved in this campaign and Alistair Darling will be involved

in Labour's Campaign. How important do you think it is that there is

some cross-party co-operation now or do you think, and I am asking

you this as a Lib Dem, is that a good or a bad thing if Gordon Brown

appears on the platform with David Cameron? I think that it is

important that we hear voices from across the political spectrum in

this independence referendum debate. What I thought was fantastic

yesterday was travels Kennedy on the platform here saying he would

live for the family -- the party in the know to independence campaign.

Willie Rennie said this morning we have got such a long record on home

rule. If we can encourage those sorts of feelings and other parties

work with other politicians to develop a home rule solution for

Scotland which I think most people would actually want. What do you

think of some of these policy areas that Johann Lamont has brought up,

be the sound familiar? I've got the best bet of her speech was when she

was talking about the policies we could usefully be pursuing, policy

choices we would have made differently. The point she made

about the future of higher education expenditure was a very

well made. And the idea that we are getting this no tuition fees policy

on a cost fee basis is actually meaning people in further education

are paying for free higher education. And what she was seeing

on income taxes? How realistic that is. It seems to be her response.

Whatever the party line, that seems I do concede that. She is arguing

for increased expenditure. She is silent on the second half of the

equation. Adding part of the problem that Labour has got at the

moment is that they do not make the distinction between better public

services and more expensive public services. We have to be on the side

of better public services. Do you have any sense that the Lib Dems

have done enough to motivate the grass roots? Absolutely it. It has

been a lot of work and it has been going on for many months. Lib Dems

campaign all year round. There is an amazing sense of optimism around

here. Long-term optimism. Liberal youth had the most successful fund-

raising event ever. I have been setting up a mentoring programme.

We have seen it new people coming into the party, talented people,

and I look forward to working with them. Candidate selection. Johann

Lamont says that has to be looked at. Yes, I hope so. They do not

bring you on here to be discreet. We need to have a better diversity