Browse content similar to 30/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning and welcome to this Sunday politics. Does anyone it | :00:48. | :00:58. | |
really know what the leader of the Labour Party really stands for? The | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
biggest union boss wants to purge of the party of New Labour Blairite. | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
He wants to the Labour leader to support calls for a general strike. | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
Should he? Nick Clegg told the Lib-Dems are | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
they are now the third party of government, but can be really | :01:22. | :01:31. | |
:01:32. | :01:33. | ||
clawed their way back into contention for the next election? | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
Will it Johann Lamont's policy shift into votes at the ballot box? | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
:01:50. | :01:50. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1783 seconds | :01:50. | :31:33. | |
And the cuts to the police civilian It can been done entirely within | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
the law. It will show the government that they have to think | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
again. The reason we see that is because the people we represent all | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
that if we do not oppose what is happening, they will regret it for | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
decades to come. You think the government will say that they will | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
stop this course and will have a new plan because of a strike? It is | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
inconceivable. If you had the whole of the public behind you, it is | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
feasible that might happen. But you will not. It is not going to happen. | :32:09. | :32:19. | |
There is not the Wellspring of support. To simply go out on strike | :32:19. | :32:26. | |
generally, you will not that everybody to do so, within Nineties, | :32:26. | :32:32. | |
you will be coming back with nothing achieved. You have a very | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
pessimistic outlook. If that we tell you something about the people | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
I represent. The majority of am earn less than �20,000 a year. | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
Their living standards have collapsed. End of the civil service, | :32:46. | :32:56. | |
their jobs are going. If that is true, why did only 20% bother to | :32:56. | :33:06. | |
:33:06. | :33:11. | ||
vote about a strike this summer? a result of the threat to strike, | :33:11. | :33:21. | |
:33:21. | :33:22. | ||
1100 extra permanent jobs were won in the Home Office. If things are | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
so bad, why do your members not even bother to vote? One of the | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
reasons why I think there is a problem with turnout is that if you | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
look at the political parties, nobody is offering any alternative | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
or any hope. Many people are affected by the gloom and despair. | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
I am convinced that when people realise that 80% of the cuts are | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
still to come, not only will the support industrial action, I | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
believe it will be popular with members of the public. The last | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
time we had a massive strike, most people supported the strike even | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
though we had been demonised in the media. It is unfair to say that | :34:05. | :34:15. | |
:34:15. | :34:16. | ||
most people are not offering a hope. Ed Miliband will be making a speech | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
this week about responsible capitalism and despair sing wealth | :34:20. | :34:30. | |
:34:30. | :34:37. | ||
better. -- disbursing. The biggest union has called for a purge on | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
Blairites. How long will the unions pay for the Labour Party and of get | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
what they want? They will carry on paying for the Labour Party. The | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
task for the Labour Party is to supplement that muddy with extra | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
Buddy. As Labour becomes a more likely to form part of a government, | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
you will find more money coming to the Labour Party. Ed Miliband has | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
to resist Mr McCluskey. His chances of being Prime Minister are reduced | :35:14. | :35:23. | |
if he does not. What is the point of supporting the Labour Party if | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
unions do not go much in return? century ago, the Labour Party was | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
founded by the unions to speak up for working people. There are still | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
some in the Labour Party -- in the union movement who believe that | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
link is worth maintaining. Ed Miliband has to understand he does | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
not enthuse or inspire anyone when his slogan is that he will cut | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
slightly less, slightly less fast. People want to be inspired. We need | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
to say that the markets are dictating social policy in Britain | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
will be challenged. I understand that, it is not what I asked, but | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
never mind. Is there any chance of a general strike? It is part of the | :36:15. | :36:25. | |
fantasy left. There will not be a general strike. I do not get | :36:25. | :36:35. | |
:36:35. | :36:39. | ||
fixated on the labels. And it will be for more than a day if we do not | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
see a change of direction. You are watching this Sunday | :36:44. | :36:54. | |
:36:54. | :37:00. | ||
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
programme. The new Head of the Police Service admits more civilian | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
job losses are on the way. Over 8% of back office jobs have already | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
been cut. So is there a tipping point where bobbies on the beat end | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
up becoming bobbies on the seat? We'll be live in Manchester at the | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
Labour Party Conference with Douglas Alexander. | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
A former kirk minister and now Princeton professor tells Wigtown | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
Book festival that Scottish public life is in crisis. The civic | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
solution - a space in the debate where everyone can be a bit braver | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
and a bit more more respectful of each other. | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
And as the women for independence campaign launches, we ask if female | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
voters really need special attention? | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
Stephen House, the clear favourite, has become the Chief Constable of | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
the new Police Service of Scotland. He will take up his duties soon in | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
advance of the amalgamation of the existing eight forces on April the | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
1st. But already he has sparked controversy with his admission that | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
more than 3,000 civilian staff may have to lose their jobs. The | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
Government is of course pledged to maintain the number of police | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
officers. It has alarmed unions and they are seeking a meeting with the | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
new Chief Constable later this week. Our Home Affairs Correspondent, | :38:09. | :38:16. | |
Reevel Alderson reports. Athan blue line, not if the | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
government has its way. It is pledged to maintain police officer | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
levels at 1000 more than when it took office. So far, it has managed | :38:25. | :38:35. | |
:38:35. | :38:42. | ||
But their new chief constable, Stephen House, knows that he must | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
cut spending and he has admitted that up to 3200 civilian staff may | :38:47. | :38:57. | |
:38:57. | :39:05. | ||
go. It has been a process of that Can more cuts be made without | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
hitting police operations? It makes logical sense that staff can be cut. | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
Each force has an HR department, payable staff and admin. These will | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
all be merged. But there are other civilians whose jobs directly | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
support uniformed officers. will not be able to maintain order | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
officers on the street if there is an absence of support in the offers. | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
People lead to find out about warrants. They IFS no one doing | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
that administrative work. The same goes for intelligence work. -- | :39:43. | :39:52. | |
there is no one doing. The Liberal Democrats have consistently opposed | :39:52. | :40:00. | |
the single for Los and see it will be a retrograde step if police | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
officers have to do these jobs again. You have to make sure you | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
have the right people in the right places. Police officer should not | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
be in the back Office to do jobs that prevent them from getting out | :40:15. | :40:23. | |
on the front line. Government supporters see rationalisation is | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
inevitable. They argue the process could be wider than just the police | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
service. They are opportunities collected with collaborative work | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
in other authorities. The fire service for instance and ambulance | :40:36. | :40:44. | |
service. We do not need all the posts that presently exist. | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
government has also said there will be there all outsourcing of | :40:47. | :40:57. | |
:40:57. | :41:01. | ||
functions to a private companies to reduce the Staff head count. But | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
how can services be maintained with these reductions? In our Inverness | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
studio this morning is Chief Superintendent David O'Connor. | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
He is the President of the Association of Scottish Police | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
Superintendents, that's the national body which represents | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
operational commanders across Scotland. | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
Thank you for joining us. That Sunday Herald is reporting that the | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
single force will involve cuts of 300 million over the next three | :41:28. | :41:35. | |
years, 550 staff will go immediately and �26 million will | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
come out of terms and conditions for police officers. But these | :41:39. | :41:46. | |
figures that you recognise? These figures have not been discussed at | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
the Police Reform Group. The article today makes a reference to | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
the Police Reform Group. I am a member of that particular group and | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
I have not had an opportunity to scrutinise these figures. | :42:02. | :42:12. | |
:42:12. | :42:15. | ||
understand they have come principally from across. -- Actos. | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
How concerned would you be? We have backed a single police service | :42:20. | :42:28. | |
across Scotland. We also have opposition that we believe in the | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
balance of a workforce. That is about police officers delivering | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
local and national policing, supported by support staff in a | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
whole range of functions. We would like to have an early meeting with | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
Stephen House and the convenor of the new police authority to discuss | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
this particular balance. It is unfortunate if you have already | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
said that this is a good idea in principle, and as it turns out, do | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
you have any reservations at all? We always supported the concept of | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
a single police service for Scotland. It was about maintaining | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
police officer numbers as a part of a balanced workforce. It was about | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
removing duplication. One of the factors there was involved was the | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
downturn in the economy and the need to make efficiency savings. | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
But what will it mean for policing in that Scotland? Their new policy | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
model will have to have a balance between police officers and police | :43:33. | :43:41. | |
staff. That will involve the types of officers in forensics and | :43:41. | :43:51. | |
custody suites, in detention centres. This is people's jobs we | :43:51. | :44:01. | |
:44:01. | :44:01. | ||
are talking about. The report says that redundant posts will be filled | :44:01. | :44:08. | |
by police officers. Policing is a complex business. It is a mix of | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
skills, experience and power. We want the right person with the | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
right scale doing the right job at the right time. I have to labour | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
this point. Policing is about a balance to work force. There is a | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
great deal of rhetoric about front line policing. We need to move | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
forward and agree and develop a model for policing for Scotland. | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
That comprises police officers and police staff would to provide a | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
very important job. In principle, if police officers are taken of | :44:39. | :44:48. | |
frontline duties, is that appropriate for their role at what | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
we all expect them to do? Is it appropriate that they are not on | :44:53. | :45:01. | |
the beat it and doing something behind the desk? We as commanders | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
wanted to see police officers who are highly trained and highly | :45:05. | :45:12. | |
experienced out doing the job in their local communities. You have | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
spoken about the demarcation lines between his some forms of police | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
work. Does there need to be greater clarity about who is in the fraud | :45:24. | :45:34. | |
:45:34. | :45:34. | ||
team, the drugs team, the forensic team? Should they be lend him with | :45:34. | :45:44. | |
:45:44. | :45:51. | ||
the civilian staff when it comes to these cuts? -- linked in. I think | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
there needs to be a very clear debate and a clear understanding of | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
what these terms actually mean. Sometimes these terms can be | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
unhelpful. What is the point of having a debate now of the deal is | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
already done? It is back to the point that I was making earlier. We | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
accept that savings have to be made, but we still need to have the | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
opportunity as a staff association and the unions still the to have a | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
meeting in relation to the figures that are being provided to allow | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
them to represent the interests of their members and, more importantly, | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
to develop a new policing order for Scotland. Does at the new structure | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
allow you to do that as efficiently as you could have done before? For | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
example, the former Highlander chief constable is saying that the | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
new authority, the support staff, the budgets, none of that will be | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
decided locally, it will all be decided centrally. One of the | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
things that we have got a challenge with is the constraints of time. | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
Then you police service for Scotland will be up and running in | :47:04. | :47:11. | |
April. -- the their new police service. Thank you very much for | :47:11. | :47:21. | |
:47:21. | :47:21. | ||
Johann Lamont set the cat among the pigeons this week with a surprise | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
and radical policy shift. She said that the idea that Scotland could | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
remain in a nation where everything was free is a lie propagated by the | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
SNP. A commission is looking into the affordability of universal | :47:34. | :47:42. | |
benefits such as free care for the elderly, tuition fees, bus passes | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
and others. We went to meet some of the people who benefit from these | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
policies. People at this coffee morning are | :47:49. | :47:56. | |
dipping into their pockets for charity. This is a leafy suburb to | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
the South of Glasgow. They are digesting the news that Johann | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
Lamont wants to overhaul universal benefits, but they seem attached to | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
get free bus passes and prescription. I worked on my life | :48:08. | :48:16. | |
and I do not get any other benefits. I worked until I was 70. I have | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
paid in, so why not? I have paid for it! We should all have to pay | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
something. We are having a problem financially, so we should pay | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
something. When it comes to benefits, most people here feel | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
they are entitled to their slice of the cake, but Labour are sounding | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
the alarm, saying the plate is empty. The idea that Scotland is a | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
land where everything is free is alive. Somebody always pays for it | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
in the end. A council tax freeze costs. It is cheap to say, but | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
expensive to fund. An expert has been charged with examining the | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
affordability of universal benefits. One party estimate is that they | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
cost �1 billion every year. Labour say the current financial situation | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
means that 30,000 public-sector jobs have been lost in their class | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
to 18 months. These are people who are leaving their posts. That takes | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
spending power out of the economy. We cannot have a recovery while | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
that is happening and while other services are being protected. | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
Nothing is off the table in this review, but it led to allegations | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
that Labour were betraying their socialist principles. It is | :49:32. | :49:41. | |
actually quite tragic to. Johann Lamont, a poster girl for be Tories, | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
whatever happened to Labour? We used to have new Labour, and now we | :49:46. | :49:56. | |
have Johann Lamont, New Blair. have to live with the reality of | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
the public finance situation. They are difficult decisions to be made | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
and we have to find a way of delivering social justice in these | :50:02. | :50:09. | |
times. Despite what most people at the coffee morning said, the social | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
service -- attitude suggests a fifty-fifty split over whether or | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
not people should play -- pay for prescriptions and personal care. | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
Their stance could be a gamble. SNP went through the same thing. | :50:23. | :50:33. | |
:50:33. | :50:34. | ||
They do think in their heart of Hearts that a lot of Scottish | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
people would see the need and the reason behind small cuts. When it | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
came to it, they said thanks, but no thanks. The party may think that | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
honesty is the best policy, but when it comes to goodies, voters | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
may find it hard to resist temptation. | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
Listing to that at the Labour Party conference is the Shadow Foreign | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
Secretary and MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Douglas | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
Alexander. Thank you for talking to us. If we look at this issue of | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
universal benefits festival, whatever the merits of the argument, | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
it is a risky political discretion to have, so it is imperative that | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
these are kids are presented coherently and credibly from the | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
beginning. Has this happened? think what Johann Lamont did this | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
week was to start a serious conversation about a serious issue, | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
which is, how do you deliver social justice in tough times against a | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
backdrop of real fiscal head wins - - winds when many will be in short | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
supply after 2015? That has provoked a strong reaction from the | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
SNP, but that is because the SNP feel they have been winning in | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
Scotland. The dynamic has been between Scotland and the rest of | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
the United Kingdom. Johann Lamont was opening up a different | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
conversation, saying there is still an important left right | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
conversation in the country. That will cause difficulty for the SNP, | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
but it is a timely conversation and a necessary one, because my own | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
patch in Paisley, we are seeing annual cuts of almost 10%. Why | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
should young children in Paisley be suffering as a direct taught -- | :52:22. | :52:31. | |
consequence of the SNP's decisions? You say it is a timely and | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
necessary conversation, but the question I ask you was, in a week | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
in which we have seen the Scottish Conservatives are meeting to say | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
they are glad to see Johann Lamont come on board with their ideas, has | :52:42. | :52:52. | |
:52:52. | :52:54. | ||
a complex argument been put forward clearly enough at this stage tee? | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
Should you be associated with the Conservatives? Let me make the | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
point that you quoted the Conservatives and I could quite an | :53:05. | :53:14. | |
:53:15. | :53:15. | ||
eerie and Bevan. Johann Lamont was opening up a conversation about | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
what Scotland's priorities were for building be good society. I do not | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
know why these aside -- Gethin be is scared of the debate. Is there a | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
time to draw a line and say that you can be clear about the | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
timescale and tell people what the priorities are before the | :53:31. | :53:38. | |
referendum vote? We are very early into the new Scottish Parliament. | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
It is said to recognise that Labour suffered a bad defeat last year. I | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
think now is the time to set out her stall and are thinking. We have | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
been midwinter Commission which will look at all these issues of | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
affordability. The other point worth making is that we have always | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
believed in a welfare state that balances universalism with targeted | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
support. That is why we have the state pension, but also the pension | :54:02. | :54:11. | |
credit. We have child benefit, but also child tax credit. And not | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
clear as to the are to be that says there needs to be a line of clarity, | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
because in Scotland we have had years of universal and targeted | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
support. The balance between those two is a legitimate debate to be | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
had in the years ahead. If you are saying that at the time of the | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
referendum, Labour going saying we have to have a debate about it, | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
your opponents can attach anything they want to it as they have done | :54:33. | :54:40. | |
this week. I am not complacent about the referendum, but I | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
understand the desperation in the nationalist camps. It has been | :54:43. | :54:49. | |
fortified years that the SNP have been polling about 30% in support | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
of independence. That remains the case despite their historic victory | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
last year. I understand the appetite amongst journalists and | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
politicians to try to attribute every move in a Holyrood on its | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
impact on referendum figures. The numbers have not shifted one iota | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
since Alex Salmond was elected in 2007. I think our job is to make | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
the case that Scotland would be best it within the United Kingdom, | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
but also to get on with the task with recognising the fact that | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
Scottish Labour is thinking hard about what are tough questions. | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
Bill Clinton sped to the Democrats a couple of weeks ago and said that | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
his issues in terms of the budget was not tied into ideology but | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
arithmetic. What Johann Lamont was saying in Edinburgh this week was | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
not just related to ideology but also to the basic arithmetic. The | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
SNP will be cut in services, but they do not want to have a | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
conversation about which services those will be. All the universal | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
benefits that I enjoyed in Scotland at the minute are up for grabs. | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
Means testing is inevitable now in this debate, isn't it? In the | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
welfare state that we have had for many years, there has been a | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
conversation -- combination of universal and targeted support. | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
That will be the case still. There will be universal benefits, but | :56:17. | :56:27. | |
:56:27. | :56:36. | ||
also targeted support. The logic of that argument is that the the | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
wealthiest people should pay for their NHS treatment tee No. As I | :56:41. | :56:51. | |
have said, we recognise the principle of access to the NHS. Let | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
me make my point. When we came to power in 1997, we face a judgement | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
as to whether to put the additional revenues we were generating into | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
the basic state pension or target that money towards the poorest | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
pensioners through the pension credit. I am not ashamed of the | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
decision to target the poorest pensioners first with extra help. | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
That was the right decision for social justice, and that is the | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
kind of conversation that Johann Lamont was beginning this week. | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
That is the point that I'm trying to make to you. The electorate have | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
a right to know what these principles are and what these | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
distinctions are that you will draw and what you're spending priorities | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
will be before they go to be referendum vote. He seemed very | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
relaxed about the timing of this. Arthur midwinter has his work to | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
take forward as is always the case. The Scottish Labour Party was set | :57:44. | :57:51. | |
at our thinking at the time of be manifestos before the election. | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
There will be further opportunities for Johann Lamont to set at her | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
thinking. I welcome the idea that there is a serious conversation to | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
be had about a serious issue that is already affecting my | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
constituents. Renfrewshire has already suffered a cut in its | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
funding while other better off areas have had increases in its | :58:12. | :58:22. | |
:58:22. | :58:23. | ||
funding. -- in their funding. This issue is happening now. This debate | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
demands to be had now. I welcome the fact that Johann Lamont started | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
this week. I take the rather hysterical reaction of some | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
nationalists as evidence that despite the posts and the bluster, | :58:35. | :58:43. | |
they do not have good chances in this debate. Today in the | :58:43. | :58:53. | |
:58:53. | :58:55. | ||
newspapers, it says that Labour seeks more powers for Holyrood. | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
Labour has established at a commission on further devolution. | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
You have been calling for a further devolved vision for Scotland. Have | :59:03. | :59:08. | |
they been too slow to get out of the blocks on this one? I welcomed | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
the devolution commission that Jeilan has announced. -- that | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
Johann Lamont has announced. We have been talking about the tough | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
choices that are faced in delivering social justice. It is | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
right to look at the issue as to what is the best constitutional | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
settlement for Scotland. We do not accept that a separate state is the | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
best way forward, but I think that in a pragmatic or calm and | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
reasonable fashion, we should look at the devolution settlement and | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
whether that offers the best balance of powers which can give | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
Scotland the opportunity to grow and succeed in the future. Douglas | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
Alexander, we have to leave it there. Thank you for joining us. | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
Coming up later on the programme, we will be hearing from William | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
Storrar, the theological professor from Princeton University. We'll | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
also be finding out what we need for independence are up to. That is | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
all after the lunch time news at 12pm with Tim Willcox and Andrew | :00:05. | :00:15. | |
Good afternoon. The Labour leader Ed Miliband has said he will stand | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
up to powerful interest groups on behalf of the hard-working majority. | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
Speaking ahead of the start of the Labour Party conferences after | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
being, Ed Miliband said he would take on the banks and his own trade | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
union supporters as he seeks to rebuild the British economy. Arts | :00:30. | :00:38. | |
correspondent reports. The slogan is, rebuilding Britain. | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
That Labour also has to rebuild the trust it loss at the last election. | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
They need to convince voters that Ed Miliband is a potential Prime | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
Minister. He was recognised by this writer this morning, but although | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
his party is ahead in the polls, his own ratings remain poor. He | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
says that Labour has to change, but he will remain trees to himself. | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
I'm going to do it my own way. I think in the end people respect | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
somebody who has seriousness of purpose. It is not just Labour's | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
conference which is getting a makeover. The task is to find | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
policies which are distinctive for be -- from the coalition -- | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
distinct from the coalition but do not cause a crash. Ed Miliband is | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
prepared to break up the banks to protect High Street customers from | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
investment operations. That is a massive difference in priorities | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
between a Prime Minister that I aspire to beer, -- aspire to be, to | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
help people who cannot get by on their own, and a government which | :01:42. | :01:51. | |
just wants to cut taxes for the rich. The unions make a big | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
financial contribution to the Labour Party, and they want to use | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
their muscle to influence party policy. Ed Miliband says he will | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
not give into his party pay masters on the subject of pay. We are | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
:02:13. | :02:16. | ||
tackling the subject of pay rises, bit it is the way to keep jobs. | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
The number of American service personnel who have lost their lives | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
in Afghanistan since the beginning of the conflict in 2001 has reached | :02:24. | :02:32. | |
2000. A US soldier was shot dead yesterday in a so-called green-on- | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
blue attack by a member of the Afghan security forces. | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
A fire in the Syrian city of Aleppo has destroyed many of the medieval | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
markets there as a fighting rages between government troops and | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
rebels. Fires tour through many areas of the old city, a UNESCO | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
heritage site. It is the final day of playing the | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
Ryder Cup which gets under way in Chicago in America. America's of us | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
are just 4.5 points short of victory over the Europeans. | :03:08. | :03:18. | |
That is all the news without. There will be more on BBC One at 6:35pm. | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Good afternoon. Hundreds of people were delayed at Glasgow Airport | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
overnight because of a UK Border Force computer failure. Passengers | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
on three planes travelling from Greece and Egypt were forced to | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
wait for several hours. The system eventually returns to normal, with | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
queues taking about three hours to clear. | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
The school della blogger Martha Payne has arrived with her family | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
in Malawi to see how the thousands of pounds she raised on a website | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
is being spent. She commented on her in-flight meal on a read. | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Donations to their website soared after a controversial ban was | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
imposed on the block by Argyll and Bute Council. 2000 children are | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
being fed every day in one kitchen which has been set up. | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
Golf, and in the final days of the Ryder Cup, the European team are up | :04:12. | :04:22. | |
:04:22. | :04:22. | ||
against it. The Scottish player has played in two matches and has lost | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
both so far. USA lead lot -- Europe by 10 points to six. Here is the | :04:28. | :04:37. | |
The weather will get better as we go through his afternoon. There | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
will be some showers in the North and West. The rain will eventually | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
cleared, turning bright for most, with some lovely spells of sunshine. | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
It is a windy afternoon, particularly in the North West. | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
Temperatures are mild, at about 15 Celsius. A fine ends today in the | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
East and in the South, but there will still be showers in the North | :05:00. | :05:10. | |
:05:10. | :05:11. | ||
West. Can we hope for a more public | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
spirited Scotland to emerge from the independence debate? That was | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
the big question to the Wigtown Book Festival from Professor | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
William Storrar, seasoned campaigner in bringing politics to | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
the people. William Storrar, academic and | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
Church of Scotland minister, has flown in from America where he is | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
the directors of the Princeton Center of Theological Enquiry. His | :05:30. | :05:38. | |
message to the audience is that the All player-power to challenge | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
corrupt capitalism s public spirit. He cites their attitude of three | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
men in particular. Magnus Magnusson, because he had the same courteous | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
respect for everyone. The trade unionist Campbell Christian who | :05:56. | :06:05. | |
knew how to charm, captivate misfits. And Sir Neil McCormick who | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
threw his intellect and generosity of character transformed the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
Scottish public sphere. And Professor William Storrar is here | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
with me this afternoon. You were playing to a packed | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
audience? It was very exciting. The lady next door it was talking about | :06:25. | :06:35. | |
:06:35. | :06:38. | ||
six in her book and we were talking about Scotland. -- sex. You were | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
talking about the contribution that was made by the men we have just | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
seen. What is happening now that was different when you were out on | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
the campaign trail to get a parliament for Scotland? I think | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
these are three remarkable Scots were the last of a generation of | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
politics where you work to through the big institutions, the BBC, the | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
STUC, that universities to lead a public debate. I think that now the | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
public life and the public spirit has migrated into all sorts of | :07:10. | :07:18. | |
initiatives. People who care about the environment, women's networks, | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
and I think we have got to be Advent a new kind of public | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
politics for ordinary citizens three those kind of met works a | :07:27. | :07:37. | |
rather than the big names. -- networks. How does that filter | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
through into traditional political avenues? We think how we can make | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
an impact on the politicians. Another great Scot, Steven Maxwell, | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
a brilliant thinker about citizenship and Scotland said that | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
you cannot have a healthier Holyrood unless you have a health a | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
:08:06. | :08:11. | ||
civil society around it. The politicians, to do their job, | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
whatever happens after the vote, we need and a healthy, active group of | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
citizens who are having their own debate about the kind of Scotland | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
we want to live in. It is interesting what will happen after | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
that vote. You have said in your lecture that we need to know how to | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
carry ourselves in public. The world is watching and waiting. Not | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
so much to see the outcome of the board, but to see how we conduct | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
ourselves in public. Do you have concerned that if the court -- to | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
do you have concerns that if the tone of the debate is no right and | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
respect for, it will poison the well? Absolutely. How we start is | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
how we finish. If it we demonise ll the other side -- if we demonise | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
the other side as the end of the, we have already lost the vote. The | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
day after the vote, we will still be living in Scotland and working | :09:13. | :09:23. | |
:09:23. | :09:24. | ||
for the common good. How we conduct ourselves and a -- as an Asian will | :09:24. | :09:32. | |
determine how we will live together and work together as a nation. | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
There are initiatives around the world to set up new democracies | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
were people have a stake and they want to see Scotland show the way, | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
whatever the result of the referendum. Do you think it will be | :09:46. | :09:54. | |
easier to conduct the right to beat out in the communities and rather | :09:54. | :10:04. | |
:10:04. | :10:08. | ||
than in the tribal environment a Politics? Absolutely. We went out | :10:08. | :10:16. | |
in a minibus with a group of Scottish writers and poets and we | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
went to Aberdeenshire, down to Lesmahagow, outside the central | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
belt, into town halls and church halls, and hundreds of ordinary | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
citizens took part in a wonderfully rich of debate about what kind of | :10:32. | :10:42. | |
:10:42. | :10:46. | ||
Scotland we were hoping for. We must do the same again. I hope that | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
communities will well, its back for the debate. You will be back on the | :10:50. | :11:00. | |
:11:00. | :11:01. | ||
bus? Absolutely. I hope this time that we will have some of the | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
fabulous of young women in Scotland, who are absolutely active citizens. | :11:08. | :11:16. | |
And opposing viewpoints as well? absolutely. The group Women for | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
Independence launches today. It's not officially part of the Yes | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
Scotland Campaign but runs alongside it. We'll speak to one of | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
the organisers in just a second. But first Hayley Jarvis has been | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
asking in an age of equality if female voters really need special | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
attention? Flags at the pro-independence rally | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
in Edinburgh last weekend. Does the referendum debate need to be | :11:40. | :11:50. | |
:11:50. | :11:55. | ||
tailored towards the female vote? A Why are women less likely to have | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
made up their minds? It is not to do with depth of feelings of | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
national identity. There is no evidence of that at all. There is a | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
marked difference between men and women been how confident they feel | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
about independence. It is central to the debate as far as women are | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
concerned, they are more risk- averse, more worried about the | :12:22. | :12:30. | |
prospect of independence. How will the Budget affect women in Scotland. | :12:30. | :12:40. | |
:12:40. | :12:41. | ||
She feels that issues that affect remember voters have been sidelined. | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
We need to talk less about whether we are going to be in the tour and | :12:45. | :12:55. | |
:12:55. | :12:57. | ||
talk about what we are going to do about the pick up. -- in NATO. | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
is long gone that women were overlooked because they were women | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
and did not know about these things. For most women, they would rather | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
be where the politics are at. That is where the decisions are a bit. | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
What women have a greater voice with engaging with their two main | :13:14. | :13:23. | |
campaign groups? The launch is in full flow at the | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
moment but the former SSP MSP, Carolyn Leckie has nipped outside | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
to join us. Do women identify it simply as | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
women? Not simply as women. I think people's identities are diverse and | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
complex. That is why be formed because women are not uniform. But | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
we do not bring that women's voices had been heard up to now. We want | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
to listen to what their views are, their ideals and aspirations before | :13:59. | :14:06. | |
we do anything. We think that the independence debate so far has been | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
very male dominated at as take him on the tone of a boxing match | :14:09. | :14:17. | |
already. We hope to seat a burgeoning of democracy a month's | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
remember. Women have a long history of self organising. They want to | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
make sure that our voices are heard. We are not waiting for permission | :14:28. | :14:38. | |
:14:38. | :14:39. | ||
to be heard or asking to be invited to be heard. You might be going on | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
this bus with William Storrar? Possibly. We do not know where this | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
will take us. The women who have come together a very diverse. We | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
support independence. But what kind of Scotland B one-11, we want to | :14:52. | :15:01. | |
create a spade for women to him -- what kind of Scotland we wanted to | :15:01. | :15:10. | |
live in, we want to create a space of four women to discuss that. | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
are almost out of time. You are a campaigning group. Would there have | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
been met in creating a women only forum where the debate could be | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
created in a manner that you would consider more constructive and for | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
all parties? And we would participate in anything with any | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
groups in discussion. We want to approach it with a different tone | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
and more respectful and listen to people. Including remember, | :15:43. | :15:53. | |
:15:53. | :15:55. | ||
particularly who do not support independence. -- including women. I | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
think they will learn a lot through that process. | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
Thank you for that. Now in a moment, we'll be | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
discussing the big events coming up this week, but first, let's take a | :16:09. | :16:19. | |
:16:19. | :16:23. | ||
look back at the Week in Sixty Remarkable scenes followed severe | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
rainstorms. A budget moment for the pro-union better together campaign | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
when a JK Rowling kid down in favour of the Union. We are in a | :16:39. | :16:49. | |
:16:49. | :16:52. | ||
stable, sound position. I didn't want to stabilise that. | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
MSP express their horror at the level of inequality of care | :16:58. | :17:08. | |
:17:08. | :17:08. | ||
experienced by its travellers. Europe was checking the small print | :17:08. | :17:18. | |
:17:18. | :17:32. | ||
And now it's time to take a look at the week ahead. | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
And joining me this week are the Spectator blogger Alex Massie and | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
the journalist Anna Burnside. What will be happening at the | :17:41. | :17:48. | |
Labour Party conference? It looks like what ever the relationship | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
with the unions, if they get into the unions, then they are in the | :17:52. | :18:01. | |
unions' pocket. It is hard to see who is going to come well out of | :18:01. | :18:09. | |
this. McCluskey wants all the playwrights out will stop -- | :18:09. | :18:19. | |
:18:19. | :18:19. | ||
playwrights -- Billy Wrights out. It is hard to see how are Ed | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
Miliband well, out of this. I agree entirely. It cannot end well. Which | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
is quite entertaining for everyone else. Whoever pays the piper calls | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
of the two. For as long as the Labour Party is 60% funded by the | :18:37. | :18:45. | |
unions, it is not unreasonable for the unions to wish to have an | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
influence on Labour Party policy. That causes a certain amount of | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
difficulty for Ed Miliband given that union membership is lower now | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
than it ever has been. The Labour Party is trying to run away from | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
Tony Blair as it possibly can add playwright has become a term of | :19:06. | :19:16. | |
:19:16. | :19:22. | ||
abuse, -- Blairite. Ed Balls has been saying that an | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
incoming Labour government would be ruthless on budgets, but they are | :19:28. | :19:38. | |
:19:38. | :19:50. | ||
trying to Saughton a line -- soften. They are trying to manoeuvre | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
Liberal Democrats out of the coalition. Going along with the | :19:53. | :20:03. | |
:20:03. | :20:03. | ||
mansion tax is an obvious attempt to put a wedge in there. I thought | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
that was quite interesting. If we look back at what has happened in | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
Scotland over the past week. Johann Lamont's statements about universal | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
benefit. How do you think it was presented? I thought it was an | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
interesting repudiation of the last 50 Years of the Scottish Labour | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
party's approach to politics which has been essentially to be in an | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
auction with their SNP to dole out as many sweeties to the electorate | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
as possible. In a normal, go on a political culture, the notion that | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
you might have to raise taxes is not so controversial. But in | :20:44. | :20:54. | |
Scotland, this is a great betrayal. It is a depressing commentary on | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
public life in this country. Aggregate was a mistake to get | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
trapped in the relatively trivial things of free prescriptions, a | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
free bus passes. Those are not actually major items of expenditure. | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
What was much more interesting was their attack on the council tax | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
freeze which is a benefit for wealthy Scots at the expense, to | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
some extent, of poorer Scots. Particularly those who are more | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
dependent on council services. The wealthy 10 not to rely on council | :21:28. | :21:35. | |
services as much as the poor. -- tend not to rely. A council tax | :21:35. | :21:45. | |
free, there were a useful it is, does have an impact. For a Labour | :21:45. | :21:55. | |
:21:55. | :21:57. | ||
politician to say we need to redistribute wealth, do you think | :21:57. | :22:06. | |
that comes across yet? How are people hearing this? That is the | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
most obvious thing for everyone to sit. It is terrible that these rich | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
people are getting these benefits, but obviously, I deserve education | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
for my children and somebody to look after my mother. People have | :22:19. | :22:29. | |
:22:29. | :22:30. | ||
called her brave and bold, with inverted commas hovering in the air. | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
In a grown-up world, the possibly would not have to have that debate. | :22:35. | :22:43. | |
But politics is not like that. It is hard to see how people can sort | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
out from all the fuss there has been over this announcement that | :22:47. | :22:54. | |
actually come of the subtle things she was the end, with all the mud | :22:54. | :23:04. | |
:23:04. | :23:05. | ||
slinging... It is an open goal. You cannot blame everybody for having a | :23:05. | :23:11. |