Browse content similar to 10/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning. Welcome to the programme. The Government announced | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
its tough new tests for meat products. Is it a case of shutting | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
the stable door after the horse has bolted? We will ask the Environment | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
Secretary and his Labour shadow and bring you the latest on the | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
horsemeat scandal. After Christine's disgrace, the | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
coalition partners are in a political fight to the death over | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
his vacant seat in Eastleigh. We will ask to Energy Secretary if it | :01:06. | :01:15. | |
is a by-election for his party. Can the NHS really be described as | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
the envy of the world? And in Scotland, we will be | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
speaking to Michael Moorer and Nicola Sturgeon about their reports | :01:24. | :01:34. | |
:01:34. | :01:34. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds | :01:34. | :32:31. | |
tomorrow. Will be deliver the We are having to import a lot more | :32:31. | :32:41. | |
:32:41. | :32:41. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds | :32:41. | :40:55. | |
The principle of getting high quality health care, in spite of an | :40:55. | :41:03. | |
ability to pay. They NHS has only one way. Is there only one way, is | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
any way you can change the NHS? the evidence shows that people want | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
to go to their hospital closest to them. Most people actually want | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
their local hospital to be as good as it can be and they want to | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
travel relatively small distances. What we have to focus on is getting | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
the number of elderly patients out of our hospitals, because they are | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
blocking the acute care beds. We have this culture now that has | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
developed, that people go to hospital to die have the time. 50 % | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
of people die in hospital. A lot of them do not need to be in hospital | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
at that point, they could be at home, are they could be in a home, | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
if we had better care from social care. Social care is broken down, | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
family structures have broken down, no one wants to care for her their | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
grandparents. People have multiple illnesses that are essentially | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
incurable, they need tender loving care and that is something that we | :42:07. | :42:15. | |
cannot prescribe. You are watching the Sunday | :42:15. | :42:25. | |
politics. Good morning. Welcome to Sunday | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
Politics Scotland. Coming up - speed reading glasses at the ready, | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
tomorrow, Westminster will come out fighting with the launch of the | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
report about Scotland's role in the UK. Holyrood are preparing a | :42:40. | :42:50. | |
:42:50. | :42:51. | ||
counter-punch. They will recommend keeping the pen serving. | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
And we hear about the impact of welfare reform changes. My GP says | :42:57. | :43:04. | |
that he's not fit to work. Because I can walk I cannot get employment | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
support. And as to displays and vending | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
machines are banned, prepare for even more anti-smoking measures | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
coming in soon. Having two governments looking | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
after affairs offers the best of both worlds, according to the Prime | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
Minister. David Cameron is writing today in defence of the Union, head | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
of his government releasing a report about Scotland's role in the | :43:32. | :43:40. | |
UK. The Scottish government's Fiscal Commission also publish a | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
report tomorrow. It will recommend that they keep the sterling | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
immediately post-independence. It was all smiles and handshakes on | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
the day that Alex Salmond and David Cameron signed their Edinburgh | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
Agreement on the independence referendum. But be in no doubt. | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
These two men have a fundamental disagreement about what the outcome | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
of the vote should be. It is up to Alex Salmond to advance cutting | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
edge arguments for Scotland to become an independent country. He | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
will give us the detailed workings of an independent Scotland this | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
autumn. But the transition to independence, he says, could be | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
complete within 18 months of a Yes vote. | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
Let us look at their Internationale examples. 30 countries had been | :44:31. | :44:37. | |
through the process that we are about to go through. The average | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
timescale from the referendum to independence is 15 months. With all | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
these other countries can do it, then why not Scotland? These are | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
being questioned by the man from the union that represents senior | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
civil servants. We really do not see how that will be done in this | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
16 month period. We may be wrong, it maybe that the two governments | :44:58. | :45:07. | |
simply to call boxes and each say, Westminster says yes to everything, | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
or Holyrood concedes everything. We will wait to see, but we think it | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
will be more difficult than is perhaps currently perceived. Today, | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
the Prime Minister has weighed in. He said, those arguing for | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
independence are already preparing their separation transition plan is | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
if they have it in the back. To me, that is wrong, it is like fast- | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
forwarding to the closing credits before you have been allowed to see | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
the movie. Michael Moore has his role to play. | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
It is his job to find a truckload of arguments for Scotland to stay | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
in the Union. He will deliver the first in a series of papers on that | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
topic tomorrow. We must make the big issues and bring clarity to the | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
process, but the big issues are what matter to people across the | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
country and that is what we will focus on. | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
There is another report out tomorrow, from the chairman of the | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
Scottish government's economic advisers. They are promising a | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
well-engineered economic model for an independent Scotland. Both Alex | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
Salmond and David Cameron have brought in the boffins to bolster | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
their arguments over Scotland's future. The independence debate is | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
entering in the face. I am joined by the Secretary of | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
State for Scotland, the Liberal Democrat MP Michael Moore. We had | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
been hearing that the UK government will be publishing this paper | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
tomorrow. How will that persuade people to stay in the Union? What | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
kind of arguments we beat applying? I think that the report is right to | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
say that we move into a new phase. But the process behind us and | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
getting to the big issues that affect people and matter. What we | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
are essentially saying, the Prime Minister sets it out this morning, | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
is that Scotland gets the best of both worlds as part of the United | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
Kingdom. As Parliament, we are able to decide whether it is in | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
Scotland's interests, about the things that are decided here in | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
Scotland. But her national security, our place in the world, the | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
strength and opportunities of their economy, we can do that at the UK | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
level as well. There is a big positive case for Scotland's | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
continuing to be part of the United Kingdom, we will start the process | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
of laying out his arguments tomorrow. We hear these arguments | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
quite often have. What's a stance of arguments will commit a moral | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
that will persuade people? Their Parr Hall series of issues around | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
the independence debate. -- Ferrara whole series of issues. Scottish | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
business, Scottish jobs, around the world. What we are doing tomorrow | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
is setting out our view of the cornerstone of all this. Setting | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
out the detail of how devolution is good for Scotland. Showing how the | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
parliament created in the last 14 years, the new powers given to it. | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
We are unable to respond to the demands and wishes here in Scotland | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
while still having the strength and security and opportunity of the | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
whole of the United Kingdom. People are really hungry for facts. This | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
sounds like some of the old arguments being we treaded. -- | :48:31. | :48:38. | |
retreated. Do you have any information to give to people? | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
need to highlight the reality that if we become independent, that is | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
devolution at an end. We will lose the advantages and flexibility that | :48:46. | :48:56. | |
:48:56. | :48:57. | ||
comes as part of the existing arrangement, and certainly we will | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
be looking at what Scotland has as part of the UK and what would be at | :49:00. | :49:10. | |
stake if we were to got along. -- go-it-alone. You talk about the | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
dangers of what is at stake if we go-it-alone. It is often the | :49:14. | :49:22. | |
negative arguments that better to get there are putting forward. -- | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
better together. I have just spent the last few minutes been | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
relentlessly positive than talking about the good things that we can | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
already do. We have great flexibility which means that we can | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
decide here in Scotland what is taught in our schools, Scottish | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
parliamentarians will decide that, not remote institutions like | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
Westminster. But where it is appropriate use Westminster, with | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
the banks, with trade to render world, that is a strong, positive | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
case for staying in the UK. The positive side of this is there to | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
be told, as the Prime Minister has done this morning, and we look | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
forward to making much of that in the Munster come. The report, some | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
will say, will be highlighting the negative impact on Scotland when it | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
comes to the European Union, that Scotland would have a very weak | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
negotiating position. We are setting out a reality check that | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
shows Scotland's situation as a very important member of the | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
European Union at the moment, and what we would be beating at stake, | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
the need for us to negotiate our terms within the European Union, | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
where the currency issue will be up for grabs, where the border | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
controls will need to be resolved, we will need to work out what we | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
will pay to other farmers and fishermen. That will go into a | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
melting pot over which we have less control. But those issues we are | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
bringing out euro are the kind of issues that people want answers on | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
and it is in your power to find out those answers from the Commission, | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
because the president of the commission said that it is only a | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
member state that can ask those kind of questions. Kenny and the | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
Scottish Government give the people of Scotland those definitive | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
answers? Can you work together? have been clear about this. The | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
Scotland becomes independent, it becomes a separate state and it has | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
to apply for membership and started the terms and conditions. Frankly, | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
we have not had a poor night's -- precise scenario. We have had a lot | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
of speculation. Just answer the court., we will be setting out | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
tomorrow are very clear terms, I review, backed up by legal experts, | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
which show that Scotland will be needing to apply for that | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
membership and will need to sort out its terms and conditions, which | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
has been a long-held view. People need to study their arguments and | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
make their own judgment. So you have a new legal expert, someone | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
with the full weight and authority behind him, saying that Scotland | :52:05. | :52:11. | |
will have to reapply to join the you? Is that a key point? The legal | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
basis of the United Kingdom, the strength we will get from the party | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
it, we will make sure that all of our key points are well source, | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
well researched and scrutinised by independent experts, so that the | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
case we make is as strong as possible. I think it is very strong | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
and will really be in force our central message. Scotland gets a | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
great deal by being part of the United Kingdom, the UK gets a great | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
deal from being part of the in European Union. Why pick that its | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
stake? If you have that evidence, why not approach the European | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
Commission and say to them, give us a definitive answer about Scotland. | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
For some reason, you were not doing that. When you scared of what the | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
commission might say? What I have watched as the Scottish Government | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
shuffling through a whole series of positions where they have said that | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
they have the opposite -- legal advice, then said they did not. | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
What we are setting out tomorrow is a very clear argument and report | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
from the UK government, backed up independently, that will show that | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
Scotland's place in the UK is the right place to be, is the strong | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
place to be, and that therefore people can take confidence from | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
arguments that we are making. have the Fiscal Commission report | :53:30. | :53:40. | |
being published tomorrow. The recommendation is that Scotland | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
should keep sterling post- independence. For the people of | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
Scotland, could you give some guarantees that the Bank of England | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
would recommend that Scotland perhaps could keep sterling post- | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
independence? So that people have that kind of stability? I am | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
fascinated to hear, and like you I have only seen what is in the | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
newspapers today, that the recommendation is to keep the pound. | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
We already have it is part of the United Kingdom. Why would we want | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
to become independent just to keep the pound. It is a very strange | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
argument indeed. It is in our interests, I agree with that, and | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
that is why Scotland staying in the UK is the way forward. Scotland | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
gets a much stronger and better deal as part of the UK than it | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
would if it went to one. We have also had another report from the | :54:30. | :54:38. | |
Scottish government, road map, -- Scotland's Future, which party do | :54:38. | :54:45. | |
disagree with most? There is a long way to go before we have all the | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
issues set out from the Scottish government's side. What we are | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
setting out tomorrow will in-depth and in detail and so a lot of the | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
questions that they had been unable to answer. We need to have a debate | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
about the time scales that will be involved. We have had predictions | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
about Independence Day but Scotland has not been asked to vote and has | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
yet. We do not know when we will vote on independence. I'm confident | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
that we will stay part of the UK. We need to get on to the serious | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
points of substance. We have your report coming tomorrow, is this the | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
start of the renegotiation? We have been clear from the outset that the | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
negotiations are not appropriate and cannot take place. However, | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
proper, sensible, reasoned argument about Scotland's place in the UK is | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
essential. Our report will set the tone for that. Thank you. Coming up | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
in a moment we have the Deputy First Minister, but first let us | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
take a look at the time line that came out of Scotland's -- | :55:54. | :56:02. | |
Scotland's Future document, which came out last week. | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
If it is a yes vote, and associations begin between Holyrood | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
and Westminster, between Holyrood and the European Union, and between | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
Holyrood and other international organisations. In the middle of | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
which, we will have a UK general election and possibly a new | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
Westminster and was sating partner. The Scottish Government also wants | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
the Westminster to transfer the powers to allow Holyrood to | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
legislate for a new Scottish state. The song needs to be done for 20th | :56:34. | :56:42. | |
March 16. -- best song needs to be done. They will then be in the | :56:42. | :56:52. | |
:56:52. | :57:00. | ||
elections for the first parliament We are hearing that the UK | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
Government have this coming out tomorrow and they have some | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
authority. It is weighty evidence, saying Scotland would have to | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
reapply to become a member of the European Union. It is not what do | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
you want, is it? I look forward to reading the paper tomorrow. I had | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
to laugh, listening to Michael Moore because the real uncertainty | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
around Scotland being a member of the youth is David Cameron. We have | :57:30. | :57:39. | |
been very clear that the terms of our continuing membership of the EU | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
would need to be negotiated, but that would happen from within the | :57:43. | :57:49. | |
EU. Scotland benefits a great deal from being within the EU. I think | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
we would be better off independent and able to stand up for our | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
national interest, but Europe benefits from having Scotland as a | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
member state. We have offered to sit down with the UK Government to | :58:00. | :58:07. | |
draw up that scenario and present it to the EU Commission. David | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
Cameron does not want to do that. It seems to be a pretty unclear | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
position actually, as in December you said it was your intention to | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
negotiate the terms of an independent Scotland's continuing | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
membership of the youth from within, and bent to on 7th February, two | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
Labour's Ken Mackintosh, you expect Scotland's transition from member | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
of the EU to be negotiated. So now you say you expect that. So you | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
have changed that. My position has not changed. It is our intention | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
and I fully expect that to be the case. Let me tell you in more | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
detail why. This is an important legal point and it is a point that | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
has been backed up by its experts. There is nothing in the European | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
treaty that would allow a country, just because it exercised its | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
Domecq -- democratic right to self- determination, to somehow put | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
outside of the European Union. If you look at countries who want to | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
lead the European Union, it is very complicated. And it is in | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
everyone's interests, for Scotland's continuing membership of | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
the European Union to be settled and that -- for that to be a | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
process which happens from within. So that is not just our expectation | :59:23. | :59:29. | |
but our intention and it meets the crucial test of common sense. | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
mention your constitution expert. The UK Government have theirs and I | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
was saying to Michael Moore about the joint submission to the | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
European Commission, because you were rebuffed by the president of | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
the European Commission. Have you written to the Secretary of State | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
to ask for some kind of joint commission? Yes, I have made it | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
very clear that Scottish Government is happy to do this. We disagree on | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
what the outcome of the referendum should be but I think in the -- and | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
the Electoral Commission make this point, that we have a duty to sit | :59:56. | :00:01. | |
down and look at the prices that would follow a "yes" vote, and make | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
sure we are providing as much information to the people of | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
Scotland as possible. The European Commission say they will only look | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
at a proposal coming from an existing member state. We have said | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
we have nothing to fear from that. We are confident in the prices we | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
believe would happen, so let's sit down and put that to the European | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
Commission. Michael Moore could not explain a few moments ago why the | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
UK Government is not able to do that, so I am happy to repeat the | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
offer to him today that we sit down and do that and then let the | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
European Commission look at that. Let's move on the way from the UK | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
Government's paper tomorrow to your paper tomorrow, from the Fiscal | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
Commission. It talks about leaving the union yet keeping the pound. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
But if we do that, you're taking your hands of the levers of | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
influence, aren't you? If you keep the pound Stirling post | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
independence? The report tomorrow will be from the Fiscal Commission, | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
part of the First Minister's council of economic advisers. It is | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
from independent experts, and I look forward to reading the full | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
report. The Scottish Government will take it seriously. It would | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
not only be in Scotland's interests to remain within Stirling but it | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
would be within the interest of the rest of the UK, for example, | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
because of the volley of our oil and gas and whisky experts -- | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
exports. Of course, if we are independent, what we would have | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
that we do not have now are the fiscal levers, the power over tax, | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
the Palace you need to get the economy going and to create jobs | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
and that is usually voluble. We would also have power over the | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
welfare system, for example. I read this morning David Cameron saying | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
the UK system of Government works for Scotland. He is living proof | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
that it does not, because we have Tory prime ministers that we do not | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
even vote for introducing policies we do not want. So you talk about | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
having fiscal power, taxes, but you would not have that monetary power, | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
and at the moment in the UK... not sure that is the case. Let me | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
finish. The whole point of the Act of Union was we were able to use | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
the plant and Scots have that political influence. So staying | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
with Team Sterling -- Stirling does not involve Scotland giving up any | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
powers that we do not currently have, but it gives us important | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
powers of this fiscal arrangements, powers you need to make sure you | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
have a strong, growing economy, creating jobs when you need those | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
jobs, and power over the welfare system. At the moment we are | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
watching the welfare state and being dismantled before our eyes. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
The papers this morning are full of the stories are that the dreaded | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
bedroom tax. Let's stick with monetary policy and the Bank of | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
England governor, the new one, Mark Carney, is now in the UK. What | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
plans to your administration have to meet him? We would be very happy | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
to meet with him and with any representatives of the UK | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
Government, for example, to discuss all of this, because it is right, | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
going back to Europe, that while we have differing opinions on these | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
matters, we are prepared to have discussions and prepare the ground | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
for the eventuality of Scotland voting "yes" in the referendum. I | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
am sure Mark Carney and other representatives of the UK | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
Government will be interested to read the paper from the Fiscal | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
Commission tomorrow, because it is produced by a range of eminent | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
experts. Let's get on to your document this week, Scotland's | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
Future. That was published, the road map to independence day but | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
the time round has been severely criticised by people. One expert | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
said it was a road map that would eventually lead to a car crash. | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
I heard another on BBC radio yesterday morning saying he thought | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
it was a very leisurely timescale. It is a time scale based on | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
precedent. If you look at 30 countries who have become | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
independent after a referendum, 15 months is the average time that at | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
look. Scotland, and this is important, already has much of the | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
machinery of Government. We have our own parliament, Government, | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
civil services, an independent judicial commission in Scotland. | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
The key point is that Scotland votes "yes" it is also in the | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
interest of the rest of the UK for these matters to be resolved as | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
quickly and smoothly as possible and I believe that is what happened. | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
But I believe the report was heavily criticised by a other | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
experts. Let me just finish. Looking at the constitutional | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
platform you are setting up, what is that house way -- halfway house | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
between 2014 and 2016? After there is an independent parliament | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
elected, the parliament will have the ability to develop a written | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
constitution for the future of Scotland but what we need to see | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
between 2014 and 2016 is a transfer of powers that allows that | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
independent parliament to be elected and start to get to work. | :05:07. | :05:17. | |
We want to see a better Scotland. Thank you. | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
Coming up after the news, we are looking at ATOS, the organisation | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
which tests people 4th it has to work. It is being condemned as a | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
failure by a House of Commons committee. We are also looking at... | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
Joined us in a few minutes. Time for the BBC News and Reporting | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
Scotland. The Environment Minister, Owen | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
Paterson, has moved to reassure shoppers that all processed meat | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
products currently on sale in supermarkets are safe to eat. | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
Speaking on this programme, he said he had been reassured by the FT | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
Standards Authority, despite the fact that tests on a whole range of | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
processed meat products to see if they contain horse meat are being | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
carried out. How much contamination has there | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
been to our food? The Government is already warning they could be more | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
bad news ahead, after the meat in something this lasagne has labelled | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
as beef was found to be up to 100 % horse. Tests are now being carried | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
out across the industry with results due by Friday. People are | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
eating horse meat unerringly this lunch time. That is possible and | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
that is why we are carrying out this screening. It looks as if the | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
problem is with processed beef, and it looks as if there has been no | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
criminal substitution of beef with a horse. A number of retailers have | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
been caught up. Findus is taking legal advice over whether there are | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
crowns of pursuing a case against its suppliers. Ministers have been | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
under fire for not reacting quicker and Labour says congeners -- | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
consumers have been given conflicting advice. People are | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
making Joyce is not to buy processed meat and ministers are | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
advised by the feats standards agency. It says, do not eat Findus | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
beef products. Owen Paterson says, I would happily tucking. There will | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
now be a look at stricter rules. The Government is expected to | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
announce an extension of the freeze on inheritance tax to help pay for | :07:31. | :07:38. | |
more state funded care for the elderly in England. It means | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
thousands more people will become liable for the tax. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
If a month-old baby boy is recovering well in hospital after | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
reportedly having a finger torn off by a fox as he slept in his cot. | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
The child was brushed from his home in south-east London to St Thomas's | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
Hospital, where surgeons were able to reattach his finger. | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
The former England and Tottenham player Paul Gascoigne is reported | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
to have been placed in an intensive care unit after collapsing. He flew | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
to America this week to check into a rehabilitation clinic in Arizona | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
to deal with his drink problems. His trip and time in we have is | :08:18. | :08:27. | |
being paid for by friends. More on BBC One at 6pm. | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
Good afternoon. The UK Government is appearing too -- preparing to | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
release a report tomorrow on Scottish independence. We have been | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
told that they will publish new evidence to bolster their position | :08:43. | :08:51. | |
that Scotland will need to reapply for small -- new EU membership. | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
will be publishing are view, backed up by experts, which shows that | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
Scotland will need to apply for its membership. | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
Scotland's Environment Secretary will discuss with his UK | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
counterpart later to discuss the horse meat scandal. Inspections | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
have been carried out in Scotland after it emerged some meat products | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
south of the border contained 100 % horse meat. Richard Lochhead says | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
no Scottish manufacturers are currently affected. People speak to | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
Owen Paterson this afternoon. The interim Scotland will be coach, | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
Scott Johnson, has claimed the team's aim is now winning the Six | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Nations Championship after ending their long wait for a victory in | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
the tournament. The Scots defeated Italy 34-10 at Murrayfield, their | :09:37. | :09:45. | |
first Six Nations win in two years. A cloudy picture for the bulk of | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
the country this afternoon, with continued outbreaks of rain forces | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
and Scotland with snow falling in land over the high ground. Wintery | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
showers will continue to feed into eastern parts of the country on a | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
fresh easterly wind, again with snow over the high ground inland. | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
The best of the weather this afternoon for north-western parts | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
and places like Inverness with plenty of sunshine, though cold | :10:13. | :10:22. | |
MPs at Westminster have launched a scathing attack on the UK | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
Government's welfare reforms. The Public Audit Committee says the | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
fit-for-work tests are failing and all too often, leading to the wrong | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
decisions being mate. It is a complaint MSPs and Holyrood's | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
Welfare Reform Committee has been hearing a lot about this week. | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
This process is pushing me to the very edge. This man used to be a | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
debt -- vet before he developed fibromyalgia. He has been on | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
incapacity benefit for Vitali Klitschko years but has recently | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
been assessed as able to work. -- for eight years. My GP says, he is | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
not able to work, because I am able to walk. This is because I make an | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
effort to go out. So now I cannot get support. Lesley's husband is in | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
the same situation. He retired five years ago with mental and physical | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
issues. Now he has been cleared for work, too. She says more notice | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
needs -- needs to be taken of mental health issues. Because he | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
was very slow and took a long time to do the physical part, because he | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
had to do bending and stretching, and that it quite a bit of time, | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
the amount of time that was left was very short, so therefore it had | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
to be very rushed. She says the refusal of GPs to give her husband | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
a medical report because of their blanket acceptance of these | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
benefits test did not help. view was that very understanding of | :12:02. | :12:11. | |
how I was feeling, but a very careful to say the benefits system, | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
we cannot afford the benefits system, the Government, and, you | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
know, people have to be assessed, and if you are assessed as fit, you | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
are fit. And now Westminster's Public Audit Committee says the | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
Department of Work and Pensions is making too many mistakes. Do you | :12:33. | :12:40. | |
know of those who are turned down for Employment? 40% of them appeal | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
and 38 % of them win that appeal. There is something wrong with an | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
assessment that throws up and many appeals in the first place but that | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
many successful appeals is a particular worry. The UK Government | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
insists the benefits assessment process is improving. He says the | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
previous system abandoned's people to a life on benefits. Now they are | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
checking to see if they could go back to work with the right support. | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
The system was not as effective as it could be. We are reforming it to | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
make sure we get more decisions right first time. So far, 17,000 | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
Scots have been reclassified as fit for work by Government assessors, | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
ATOS. Those who feel they have been badly treated say they are just | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
calling for a fairer system. More on this now. I am joined by | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
the Labour MP, and Beck, chair of the House of Commons working | :13:34. | :13:44. | |
:13:44. | :13:53. | ||
pension select committee. -- Anne The committee have criticised ATOS. | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
But it you is your government that awarded it and then re warded it in | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
2005. The law process dead start under the last Labour government, | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
but I would like to hope that were we still in power we would have | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
been listening to the deluge of criticism that has been coming down | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
on this process under way it has been working in practice. We only | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
introduced it far new claimants. But what we are seeing is those who | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
were previously on incapacity benefit I now been moved on to the | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
new benefit system, and are having to go through the assessment | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
process. The system inherited from Labour, says the minister, was not | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
fit for purpose. Independent reviews have found that there is | :14:43. | :14:52. | |
:14:53. | :14:54. | ||
not much need for a fireman ATOS. - - for a reform in ATOS. The way | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
that it was designed was not fit for purpose. But it was then | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
incumbent on the government to change the way that it was actually | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
being delivered. There is nothing to stop me doing that. There's | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
nothing to stop us looking again at the contract. The important thing | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
is to look at what is going wrong and what needs to be changed in | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
order to make these assessments. Most people would agree that | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
somebody has to be assessed if they are going to get benefits, but to | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
make those assessments much more accurate, much more softer, in a | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
way, in the way that it reflects the people and their illnesses that | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
they have and gets the positions right. The thing that is most | :15:36. | :15:44. | |
heartbreaking for people is that when these decisions are wrong and | :15:44. | :15:53. | |
when they go to the appeal they are not given any extra evidence, the | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
decisions are being overturned at us on the same evidence. What is | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
the problem with ATOS? Why have we seen so many appeals? There are a | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
couple of reasons. One is that ATOS as a company decided to use a | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
computer program to work out their assessments. That means that it has | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
become very mechanistic. It was always a functional test, many who | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
will think it is a medical test, it is not. And so, the computer tends | :16:27. | :16:34. | |
to see everything very much in black and white. The Public | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
Accounts Committee said that there was not any kind of intent to try | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
to get other companies who would be interested in this he would deliver | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
it quite differently, in a more face-to-face interview process. | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
That is one of the things that has been going wrong. Like me pick up | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
on that point. That is the trouble with ATOS. It is a monopoly | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
supplier. That is it. There are companies throughout the world to | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
do this sort of thing for other governments, but they do not do it | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
in the same way. They have their own system, its computer system, | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
and that is the problem. The reason the numbers are going up is because | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
the government has speeded up the roll-out, or what they call the | :17:21. | :17:31. | |
migration, from those that are presently on capacity benefit. | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
Putting them on to employments support allowance. There are 11,000 | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
letters a week going out to people who are presently on incapacity | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
benefit and they are being asked to go when it and to fill in a form | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
and then going for an assessment. Because these are people who have | :17:47. | :17:55. | |
already had benefits, when the lose it, inevitably they are going to | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
appeal. That is where the numbers of Appeal have gone up. But the | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
decisions have also sometimes been wrong in the first place as well. | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
Thank you for joining us. A ban on tobacco displays in supermarkets | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
comes into effect at the end of April, but how far will it go | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
towards persuading smokers to kick the habit? Anti-smoking campaigners | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
say that more radical measures are needed if Scotland is to become | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
smoke-free. With the Scottish Government to reveal its new | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
strategy in the next few weeks, we look at what options are. | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
The dangers of smoking have been known since the late 1950s, but it | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
was only in 2006 that Scotland became the first part of the UK to | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
ban smoking in enclosed public places and it has been seen as a | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
success, with a 17 % drop in heart attacks in the first year, a | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
reduction in sheltered asthma, and have fallen premature births. But | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
while the number of people lighting up has fallen, smoking still leads | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
to 13,500 deaths in Scotland each year. That is one in five. It is | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
also responsible for a 33,500 hospital measures. -- hospital | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
admissions. At the end of April, Scotland will follow England's | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
example of introducing restrictions on tobacco displays in bigger | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
stores. Vending machine at the sales were also be illegal. But | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
campaigners say that more needs to be done. We need to Pate smoking | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
out of fashion. We need to have standardised packaging for tobacco | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
products. Mistily a plot that in. It is about getting rid of the | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
glitzy in injury that gets young people addicted. -- in injury. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
There are some smokers who do want to quit, but there are many smokers | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
to enjoy it and have no intention of giving up and the more that you | :20:05. | :20:12. | |
try to bully them, the more they are likely to take their hilts in - | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
- dig their heels in. This advert is currently being shown in Wales. | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
It is already illegal in South Africa and some States and Canada, | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
Australia and the US to smoke in your car. Could it be on the cards | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
here? The Public Health Minister is not giving much away. It is | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
important to look at the whole range of measures that we can take | :20:37. | :20:45. | |
forward that can help to contribute to reducing smoking in Scotland. | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
Trying to reduce the number of young people that are attracted to | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
it, we have had some success with that. | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
The smoking ban has become an accepted part of everyday life in | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
Scotland but will further Tobacco's restrictions be as welcome and | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
effective? We are joined by Professor Gerard | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
Hastings from Centre for Tobacco Control Research and the Institute | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
of Social Marketing at Stirling University. Thank you for joining | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
us. Can you enlighten us as to what the Scottish Government's tobacco | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
control strategy might be? The minister was quite tight lipped. | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
is his strategy, so why do not blame him. Listening to his report, | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
it is a very good news story for Scotland. We have made enormous | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
progress over the last few generations year. The majority of | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
people were smoking in Scotland and it was taken for granted as a norm, | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
now it is less than a quarter. What we do need to focus on his young | :21:53. | :22:00. | |
people. Adults do not take up smoking. When we talk about adults | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
enjoying their smoking, it ignores the fact that most adults regret | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
ever starting, but also that it is a paediatric phenomenon. Only 5% of | :22:15. | :22:25. | |
:22:25. | :22:25. | ||
the population smoking weed been then -- would be the ideal. Are you | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
wanting to follow the Australian model and have some gruesome | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
pictures on the carton? packaging should be seen not as a | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
marketing tool of the industry. It is a multinational industry that is | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
exploiting young people and kills one in two of its loyalist | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
customers. Scotland should be rightly angry. It is then he should | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
be in our minds as we move forward on this issue. It is not just a | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
matter of me wanting to change things for the children, we all | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
want that. Even the very few people that are delighted to be smokers, | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
even the would never want children to take up this habit. The pro- | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
smoking lobby, are pro-choice lobby say that the rate of smoking has | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
not fallen that dramatically since evolutions -- since devolution. But | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
tobacco control has gone up 15 fold. It is not as much of this excess it | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
were trying to portray it be? are not thinking it through. Think | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
about the item that he had been the date lay before her about | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
incapacity benefit. How many of those people have got their to | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
tobacco-related illness. It teaches people faster, it can take ten | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
years of your life in every sense. -- it ages people faster. My | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
argument could not be fiscal, it is moral. It is simply wrong that | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
children are pooled into an industry that makes them addicted | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
and then kills them. How much is smoking still linked to | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
deprivation? Enormously. If you go to theirs then you will find barely | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
any smokers. If you go to Drumchapel you will find large | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
sectors of the population smoking. It is enormously so, it is a very | :24:27. | :24:37. | |
:24:37. | :24:53. | ||
MSPs approved the annual budget of �28 billion for 2013-14. Last | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
minute revisions including more money for colleges and the housing | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
budget. This Government is investing to deliver for Scotland's | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
young people in the future. Spontaneous applause across this | :25:06. | :25:13. | |
part of the chamber for a �24 million cut to colleges. The Royal | :25:13. | :25:21. | |
Bank of Scotland has agreed to pay nearly �400 million in fines. It is | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
after the rigging of interest rates in the Libor scandal. | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
In Westminster MPs approved a marriage. Scotland has published a | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
similar bill which is up for consultation at the moment. | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
And a new Scotland football manager in the end against Estonia. | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
Do you think the politicians involved in the referendum debate | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
will like that? Let's take a look at the big | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
political events coming up in The Week Ahead. | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
We have an academic double act this week, with Professor Murray Pittock, | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
vice-principal of does the University, and Professor Adam | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
Tomkins, a constitutional expert and Professor of Public Law at the | :26:13. | :26:22. | |
same institution. Good afternoon. Murray, you have your reading | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
glasses ready this week for these reports coming out? I will get | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
through as many as I can. I am sure I will not get through them as fast | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
as the politicians, but it is important. We have you writing this | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
week saying it we will have your "yes" vote in the independence | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
referendum. One of the reports coming out in the Sunday Herald is | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
up at the Fiscal Commission and on the front page we have the pound | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
logo. Do you think this is something that the Scottish | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
Government will be able to pursue? It is quite a controversial issue, | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
trying to keep the pound but yet separating from the UK. In some | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
ways, we see this as rather too much of a controversial issue, and | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
to take our closest neighbour, in some ways, Ireland, Ireland left | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
the Stirling system on 30th March 1979, about 57 years after the | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
Irish Free State was formed. The idea that countries outside the | :27:27. | :27:37. | |
:27:37. | :27:37. | ||
estate whose currency... A currency from the state which is not their | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
own state is not unknown in the present world from sovereign states | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
in South America to the US dollar. But in terms of Stirling, the Irish | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
example, though it is a very different world, clearly shows | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
there is no reason why an independent Scotland should not | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
keep the pound. Adam, you have been published as well this week, | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
looking at the road map for the independence referendum. First, | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
what is your position on the currency, what the Fiscal | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
Commission are coming out with tomorrow? I do not know, I will | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
read it tomorrow if I get time, thaw as soon as I can there afters. | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
I agree with Murray. I see no reason why England and Scotland | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
cannot keep the pound, but it is one of those very many issues. | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
There are hundreds, probably thousands, that will need to be | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
carefully, Felipe negotiated, between an independent Scotland, | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
the rest are beat UK and the rest of the world in the event that | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
Scotland does boat for independence in 2014. We have not been told the | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
date but that is when we assume it is. It is one of those issues that | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
will have to be talked about extremely carefully. Murray, there | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
is a feeling people are looking for sub-standard facts at the moment. | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
Michael Moore earlier taught about the UK Government report. This | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
claim baby talk about, Scotland having to reapply for EU membership. | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
I will wait and see the report. One of the ways to get fat, and I do | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
not want to undermine our own position here, one of the ways to | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
get facts, he is when experts used to reflect on the things cautiously | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
and carefully, it is quite possible and they could do this all the way | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
to polling day and Deanne, I have set some experts battling away at | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
each of in opposition, because that is the nature of political and | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
legal expertise, it is a practice pitch, and it is about conflict | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
rather than conflict resolution. We need to have facts and there are a | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
lot of facts out there. They could be more. They could be stronger | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
research about the nature of comparative transitions. That is an | :29:46. | :29:52. | |
important thing to get in place over the next 18 months. Whether | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
they could be bat the Government has so they could be a transition | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
to independence in 16 months. That is viewed as controversial. Third | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
parties could put a spoke in the wheels there but we have to spot -- | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
start somewhere. Adam, you are a constitutional expert. What do you | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
think about the Government coming out with their expert tomorrow? How | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
do you think this place out with voters? My expert versus your | :30:18. | :30:27. | |
expert. I did not see any expert in the Scottish Government report this | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
week. What we will see on Monday is a full legal analysis of where we | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
are in terms of Scotland's institution now and where we would | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
be in the future if Scotland votes for independence. In this respect, | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
the UK Government is doing exactly what it was told to do by the | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
Electoral Commission in its report a couple of weeks ago where except | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
those governments should come together and talk as clearly as | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
they possibly can about the consequences of the decision that | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
we in Scotland will take in 2014, and whether we vote "yes" or "no". | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
What will happen next. And the reason I was so angry at what the | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Scottish Government published this week is because they might win, and | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
if they win, they are going to have to negotiate hard with the rest of | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
the UK and the rest of the EU. If the 16th flimsy pages they | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
published this week is the best they can do, we are in real, deep | :31:25. | :31:33. | |
trouble. Would you regard it as 16 flimsy pages, Murray? It is a | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
statement of the Scottish Government's position. Their | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
difficulty is this, that the more of their hand they show early, the | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
more it will be attacked, and pigs and misrepresented, so although I | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
understand Adam's anxiety that the negotiations, I doubt that that | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
will be the case. What I do see is that there is quite a lot of | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
political... Quite a lot of political ill-will and name-calling | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
as there has been throughout my entire lifetime about nationalism, | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
and it is important to ensure that you do not put everything out on | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
the table so it can depicts part of by better resourced governments, | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
better resourced media throughout the UK long before the vote. | :32:19. | :32:26. | |
other issue. The front page, SNP asleep on drop over horse meat. | :32:26. | :32:35. | |
Let's not get into the issues. But a fairly gruesome topic for the | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
public. I am sure it is a rather political topic for the public. But | :32:42. | :32:52. | |
:32:52. | :32:54. | ||
I see everything through the eyes of a constitutional lawyer. Food | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
Standards is an issue whinges the shared responsibility of the UK and | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
Scottish governments. -- the witches. This is an instance where | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
we are better together. The food goes across our border. And this is | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
an instance where, if Richard Lochhead had not co-operated with | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
the UK Government, we would have had the press saying that the SNP | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
get nothing for consumers in Carlisle. Thank you buys very much. | :33:23. | :33:29. |