03/02/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland

Welcome to The Sunday Politics. The Conservative Party is at war

this morning over gay marriage. More than half their MPs are

expected to vote against it in the Commons on Tuesday. This lunchtime,

Tory constituency chairmen will hand in a letter of protest to 10

Downing Street. The Prime Minister described Mali

as part of a "generational struggle" against extremism in

North Africa, but is it one Britain is equipped to fight? Foreign

Secretary William Hague joins us for the Sunday Interview.

Hillsborough, phone hacking, Plebgate - three reasons why the

government is right to reform the police? I will be asking the

organisation that represents rank and file officers.

And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland... Holt, Diamante

Edinburgh today and they will be with you later today to talk about

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2037 seconds

I am joined now by Steve White, Vice Chairman of the Police

Federation, which represents police officers in England and Wales. The

police have been rocked by scandal in recent years. Only an Friday, an

officer was jailed for 15 months for trying to sell information to a

tabloid newspaper. Do you accept that this is damaging public

confidence? There is absolutely no doubt about that. But the

underlying support that the public give the police is still there.

Clearly, there had been mistakes in the past which have to be corrected.

But now there is Plebgate will, where for three officers have been

arrested. The inquiry into Plebgate is still ongoing, so I do not want

to comment too much on that. By it whatever happens, the police are

not going to come out well from this, are they? We will, we will

have to wait and see. Now, does this not mean that experts have

said there was a great need to have police reform, but you're

organisation it has suddenly come out straight against it. I have

been with the police for 25 years and seen what we have to do to

operate correctly. The job has changed between all recognition.

But police riot the Police Federation will continue to play a

part in that. He said that without the reforms, we were on the verge

of destroying the police force. lot of the reforms, when you talk

about reforms, it is not so much the change about as doing our work,

but changing the pay and conditions of a lot of officers. If you are

talking about wholesale reform to make us more responsible to our

communities, then we are quite behind that, but it is the other

aspects of this. Now, police pay has come late linked to the years

surfed and the idea is that this is not, but is more linked to their

value in the job, such as rewarding frontline officers. Why are you

against that? The starting point there was that police constable pay

got up by �4,000 a year and these are the people who are in the front

line. He has still going to get over time and one of the best

pensions going and get paid more than other emergency services. You

may not like the reforms, but they are Harley destroying the police

service. Our biggest thing is that we give the best service possible

to the public. I have to say it, that police officers contributions

go up to 30 %, we more than anyone else. We have a date public sector

pay freeze for two years. Some officers have actually taken a pay

cut. Let me take you back to Plebgate. Do you not regret that

this was used as part of your argument against reforms? The clue

of our organisation is an inane -- it is the federation. Sometimes we

have disagreements over how we do things. Do you regret police

officers wearing Plebgate T-shirts. The federation was demanding the

resignation of Andrew Mitchell. Do you not feel it is time to

apologise? I want to make it absolutely clear that the Police

Federation accepted the apology from Andrew Mitchell and wanted to

move on. But there were calls for him to resign? There were members

of the Federation who felt there were still questions to be answered

by him. One of the senior members of the federation are urged members

to fill me e-mail in a box of Andrew Mitchell scarf with demands

for him to resign. Is it not now time for the Police Federation to

apologise to Andrew Mitchell? is absolutely not the case. We are

a federation. To you condemn those who were wearing the Plebgate T-

shirts and those demanding his resignation without knowing the

full facts fils? Do you can get mmac? That is the personal choice

on their part. A I have said that we accepted the apology from Andrew

Mitchell. If you were here a few months ago, you would have been

calling for his resignation. I are Good morning and welcome to Sunday

Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme....

Tenants in housing associations properties or council houses have

just eight weeks left before their housing benefit could be cut by up

to 25%. Have you got a spare room? If the answer is yes, you are about

to be hit with a bedroom tax. And if you are feeling like a

Saturday night has lost all meaning, now that series two of Borgen has

finished, fear not. Sisse Babet Knuusen - or Statesminister

Birgiteh Newbor, as we all know her - joins us on Sunday Politics

Thank you for joining us this morning.

If you live in social housing and have a spare room, then you could

be facing a cut in your housing benefit. Around 100,000 people in

Scotland of working age could be affected by the under-occupancy

penalty, or bedroom tax, when it comes into force in April. Homeless

charities fear it could lead to a huge rise in evictions, if those

who are not able to move to smaller homes cannot pay the rent. This

two-bedroom flat is the lifeline for Nigel Smith, who until one year

ago, was homeless. It means he can now see his three children every

other weekend, but is now worried that could change. His housing

benefit could be cut by �11 a week. I could maybe lose my house, not

being able to afford to pay the rent. If I do that, the be kicked

me out and then I do not have the chance to see my children. From

April 1st, if you live in social housing and have the spare room,

you could be affected. Children under 16 of the same sex will be

expected to share, will as well all children under 10, regardless of

gender. If you are separated, only one of the parents will get the

spare room and if you have grown-up children who have left home, you

will not be able to keep their run for them. Foster carers to taking

children will be entitled and carers who need a separate room

from their partners will lose out. Shelter's Colonsay many people in

housing are already struggling to pay the bills. They say this could

be to a rise in homelessness. At the no will see more and more

people in Scotland getting into debt, getting into rent areas and

we will see more people getting evicted. Therefore, we will see

more people get getting homeless and ending up on the streets.

are many people in private rented accommodation who do not have

housing benefit who to cannot afford extra bedrooms. We have to

get control of housing benefit. We are spending �23 billion a year on

housing benefit and we need to get the budget under control. But a a

Scottish government say this will have a knock-on effect on other

services, taking millions of pounds out of the Scottish economy.

terms of the housing benefit and what is proposed as regards the

bedroom tax, this will add additional pressures on other

services, such as health and social services. So are their homes

available for those who want to downsize? They will have to join a

queue of 90,000 people already waiting for social housing and

Scotland. This houses being built as part of North Lanarkshire

council's plan to expand their housing stock. It has three

bedrooms, like all the other houses on this estate. But what about one-

bedroom houses, which are not a priority? The authority plans to

build 1,000 new homes by 2020, but they say there will not be enough

smaller properties to go round. do you effect children? How do you

break up a family? This is what this is about. This is to

demoralise totally about the fabric of society in Scotland. He 52-year-

old Betty does not want to move from a three-bedroom home. She has

waited 20 years for her house. Now the children have little, she says

she may have believe Foreman cannot afford the cut in benefits. I do

not have the money to pay, the housing do not have the smaller

house to give me, so where do we go from here? So sure landlords have

begun to warm the hundred 1,000 or so people there who could be

affected that they have been weeks before this bedroom tax begins.

What all the short and long-term impact be?

And joining me now in the studio is the SNP's Linda Fabiani, a member

of the Scottish Parliament's Welfare Committee. Mike Dailly, the

principal solicitor at the Govan Law Centre, the leader of the

Scottish Liberal Democrats, Willie Rennie and Pam Duncan from

Inclusion Scotland. Good morning to you all and welcome to the

programme. Firstly, Willie Rennie, what is sure position on the

bedroom tax? Some of your MPs rebelled against this when it was

going through? No change is not an option. We have the housing crisis,

with about 187,000 people on waiting lists and a financial

crisis. As David Cameron said, the Bill is �23 million. -- �23 billion.

We need to make sure that people do not suffer. That is the most

important thing. Does this not open up a near the ad of problems?

looked at the social housing stock, it is estimated that one in not

three of these houses are under occupied. You cannot have that at

the same time as you have 187,000 people on the waiting list. I have

got concerns. This week, I spoke to Danny Alexander about this very

subject to see if we can implement this as fairly as possible. Linda

Fabiani, what is the Scottish government doing to help in this?

How well prepared are you? One we are try to do is help people with

is immoral policy which is pit on them. We are now saying to people

in their rented sector that you do not have a home any more, you have

the House that you are allowed a shot of one of for a while. It is

absolutely awful. We are at wanted to make things easier for people --

we will put money into advice centres to give people the best

possible advice. But in Scotland, we have been building homes for

life so that when circumstances change, families can adapt. We do

not have the houses for people to move into for this new change will

stop it will plaster over the cracks. It will not really help

people. Social landlords in Scotland are not quick to evict

people from. Generally, they try and fix the situation before it

gets to that point. But at the end of the day, until we have got

control here, there is not an awful By $:/STARTFEED.

What can the Scottish Government do? We lay Rennie is wrong to say

the Scottish people will suffer. The Scottish Government can do a

lot to prevent people from being evicted. This is going to affect

100,000 households. We want the Scottish Government to change

housing lot so if you have arrears, that should be treated as a debt

and pursued in the courts as an ordinary debt, but not a like you

to be affected. Unless we do that, we will have thousands of

households in Scotland subject to eviction. I defend these cases day-

in and day-out. We find that when �80 to �100 disappears from

people's housing benefit, we will not be able to defend them. People

who work in the private sector, they struggle with payments as well.

It is trying to ease that social mobility and make homes available

to people who need it. If the welfare reform is a vicious attack

on working-class people. It is shameless. I have to say, one of

the great fallacies of the UK Government is that it thinks it

will save a billion pounds over two years. If somebody is affected and

becomes homeless, it will cost the taxpayer an average �26,000. In

Scotland, it is worse to have this policy in the first place. Willie

Rennie. It is difficult for people who are trying to get into work if

they have the burden to pay for a house they cannot afford. They will

have to earn more to make work pay. What we are trying to do here is

improved social mobility so people can get into work. This prevents

them so that is why we need to take action. How a where our people in

the community and the disabled community about this new policy

coming in on 1st April? In terms of disabled people, this is another

attack on them. The welfare Reform Act seems like an attack on her

come up -- on poor communities. With the Bedroom Tax, two-thirds of

people affected are disabled people. If you need an extra bedroom floor

equipment, that is not a spare bedroom, that is a bedroom that is

it needed an essential. He talked about employment, having a house is

a cornerstone of having a job. If you take that away from people,

people are going to be an an impossible situation. It is not

preventative, it will cost more money in the long-term. Disabled

people will be in houses that have adapted, if they have to be moved

it will cost more money to get those houses adapted. I was talking

to the housing spokesman in the Scottish Government, he said he had

concerns about individual disabled cases. Do you think something might

be done to alleviate that? That two-thirds of people affected are

disabled people. It is a maths problem that does not require

discretionary payments. It needs an overhaul. You cannot individually

treat everyone when the individual is the majority in this situation.

There is the exemption as Pam has pointed out for those who need

overnight carers. There is discretionary housing payment for

people who have adapted their home. I recognise there is an issue, but

there is support and it is considerable support and it is

available. Linda Fabiani, do you think a Scottish Government will

accept his petition that is coming forward and you will use your

powers to protect people who are in debt? I am not convinced by this

proposal. I do not think it will help the people who have the

problem, but I also think it makes it difficult for social landlords

to have to pass on that cost to the remaining tenants. Fahmy, the

answer is that there should not be happening, it is immoral. It is

awful. -- for me. People tried to take this to the Scottish

Government to make decisions on. We have a different housing situation.

Here we are getting something imposed on us because seemingly

there are problems in the South East. Man mackerel, you have

brought this edition, but that power might not be used? You think

it is OK for some day to be evicted? I think the people of

Scotland, we hear DNA and yet the need for the Scottish Government to

have more powers. -- day N day out. You need to use those powers to

protect the people in Scotland by saying we will have a safety-net in

this country so nobody in Scotland is affected by Bedroom Tax arrears.

We are already trying to bring in things to reduce that. We have been

hearing about this, a very lively debate. Do you think anything can

be changed by the UK Government? have gathered evidence myself, I

have seen people who are going to be affected by this. I have been

working with them to make sure that people are not hack. I can give a

guarantee that I will be in constant dialogue are that is what

we need to do. The you think people will be protected? I do not. With

restrictions on the amount of money the local authorities can add to

that discretionary payment, I am not convinced people will be

protected. Decisions will need to be careful, I miss suggest they are

done with disabled people and their organisations are decisions about

who needs extra money from within those payments. The we will have to

leave that there. Pam Duncan, Linda Fabiani, Mike Dailly, Willie Rennie,

thank you. Everyone loves Borgen. It seems that is the common consent

amongst the political chatterati here in Scotland. Viewers were

gripped as the second series of the Danish political drama came to a

close last night, with the much- admired Statesminister Birgiteh

Newbor facing down her critics. It seems like a perfect mix of

realistic European political stories with strong characters,

particularly female ones. Look away now if you still have to catch it

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2037 seconds

The star of the show Sisse Babet Knuusen will be taking part in a

series of Q and A sessions in Edinburgh today. I spoke to her

just before we came on-air and I began by asking her about the

importance of strong female leads in the series.

Partly it was to do with representing what was happening in

Denmark. They are all fans of the west wing and I think they wanted

to turn that around. We have a strong female representation in

Scotland in politics. Do you want to see your character as a role

model for women in politics, or women wanting to go into politics?

Your characters said in the episode last night, she didn't want to be a

role model. I don't think she feels like a role model. I didn't want to

represent her as one. It is a particular woman in politics. I

think the whole show is showing someone who is discovering how we

enter politics more than any it is particularly agenda issue. She does

face a lot of gender issues, particularly in the last couple of

episodes last night. Exactly. That is what I really like about the Big

story, it is only at the end that we are referring to it. For the

previous 18 episodes, it has been his Prime Minister trying to do her

best. Exactly. You are trying to beat the Prime Minister and gender

was not an issue in the last episode. How would you describe

your character? She is primarily an idealist. I think that aspect of

politicians have not been mentioned in these last few years. It is

interesting to show where the desire to politics comes from, and

I think she encapsulates that. still has to deal with the tough

decisions that all politicians have to take. Absolutely. Be sure has

travelled extremely well, it is a huge success here in Scotland. What

you think is the Scandinavian secret? I think we are dark horse.

I think there is a lot of sympathy towards a small African country won

the World Cup. We are grateful for the whole passage that the killing

has done, the other crimes series from Denmark. That has paved the

way for us. There is the bridge as well. It is amazing how the smaller

countries have produced such huge successes. Then again, I think it

is the unexpected thing. The first people who started watching the

series, it was like finding a treasure. Everything that is not

from America is exotic, television why is. And bit his words to mouth,

the way the whole thing has started. That makes for, how do you say it,

you become very loyal to it if you think you are part of discovering

this. It was a treasure that people discovered. It was on BBC for, a

minority channel in a way. Where are you prepared for the level of

international recognition when you receive it. When we said any of us

we were going to do this, the women wanted to tell us they admired you

and the men wanted to meet you. Previous television shows have been

popular in Denmark. This was the risque show to put on, politics. N

Denmark we were... There is no money in the international

production, nobody thought it would travel as -- at all. You are

halfway through the third series. Any hints you can give us about a

third series? I am not allowed is a very much. When it ended last night,

to 0.5 years has gone by and all the main characters are in

different positions. 2.5 years. there may be a British character?

That is true. We used XT areas. -- Expedias. My office is asset.

probably the third and final serious. Absolutely. That will be

the final. It is a little sad? is sad but it is good to end it

when it is on this high. It was good. Thank you for being on our

programme. Her and you very much for having me. Sisse Babet Knuusen

speaking to me earlier. Coming up after the news: We will be speaking

to a two panellists as we look to There is a warning that the issue

could cause a serious problem for the party. How divisive as this? It

is the day he divisive issue for Conservatives. It is an issue that

the Prime Minister cares passionately about and many modern

has got it would tell the party appeal to a wider audience. But has

laid bare tensions within the party. It is a free vote on Tuesday and it

is believed that some Cabinet Ministers, junior Ministers and

party whips may actually opposed or abstain from, the issue. As you

said, there is a delegation going to Downing Street very shortly to

hand at this letter of protest. They are asking for the thought to

be delayed, saying it should be put off until after the next general

election. The say it is being pushed through in haste and many

Conservative members say they feel that is distasteful. In a woman

disfigured and an asset attack has been speaking to people. This was

my or maybe for the attack. Now, her life has been changed forever.

She suffer burns on her shoulder, face and rest when, just over one

month ago, asset was thrown at her by an unknown attacker. She has no

idea why she was targeted. She is hoping someone will contact the

police. It burnt a lot of May. I am not deaf, I am not blind, I am eat

able to eat and drink. Seoul, the person who did this field. God has

given me a life for a reason. That is what keeps me going. When she

first saw her injuries, she says she wanted to die, but now it is

staying positive. No one has yet been arrested. The leaders of

Pakistan and Afghanistan are in the United Kingdom for or two days of

talks with David Cameron. It is regarding stopping a rise in the

Taliban when the Nato forces leave the country. That is all for now.

There will be more now at 6:00pm. Good afternoon.The Scottish

government has accused Iceland of continuing to take an excessive

share of mackerel from the sea, despite the North Atlantic state

announcing a cut in quota. Iceland says it is reducing the

amount of the stock it takes by 15%, but that has being seen as a

defiant act against those who want to negotiate.

Iceland, Faroe and the EU have been in dispute over the rights to fish

mackerel for the past four years, with negotiations repeatedly

breaking down. Environmental campaigners say the

latest official figures show air pollution is continuing to threaten

the health of millions of people living in Scotland's biggest towns

and cities. The campaigners are calling on the Scottish government

and local authorities to take decisive action to ensure the

problem is reduced. The Scottish government insists it is meeting

most of its air-quality targets and is working to improve "localised

hotspots" of air pollution. It is making people ill. They are not

meeting the targets. It is not just in the big cities, but elsewhere in

the country. The figures show that there has not really been a lot of

improvement and the last couple of years.

The scientist who gave his name to the Higgs Boson particle is to have

an annual prize awarded in his honour. The Higgs Award will be

open to physics pupils and offer them the chance to win a visit to

the European Nuclear research facility at Cern in Geneva.

And here is the weather now, with Good morning. Thicker cloud in the

West already pushing its way in. You can see this particularly in

the north and it will become more persistent as it tries to push East.

As far as temperatures cool, nine degrees Celsius the best in the

West. That is all for now, Now back to

Andrew. Now, in a moment, we will be discussing the big events coming

up this week at Holyrood, but first, let us take a look back at the Week

in 60 Seconds. The Scottish government accepted the Electoral

Commission's revised question for the referendum. The Deputy First

Minister called for talks to start now it on how defence and security

would operate as Scotland was to We are very excited by the work

that Trident could be decommission within the space of two years. I do

not think there is any problem with us now having the discussions about

Alex Salmond discussed independence. It Haft and rip-off, but it did not

bring the House down. And now it is that time of the week

again where we take a look forward to the next seven days. This week I

am joined in the studio by journalists Anna Burnside and

Kirsty Scott. Firstly, we had a lively discussion at on the bedroom

tax a few moments ago. Do you think people in the community are aware

of this coming and in April? think there has been a big surge of

interest in this and I think the likes of social media have helped

in that way. The issue lends itself to the quirky, a picture caption

nature of social media, that it has spread between beyond the housing

and disabled communities. All this it, people in that position have

known it was coming and have lined it up. There have shown the likes

of Buckingham Palace with the huge mansion and the people and

Dunfermline who cannot pick the person in its own room because of

the tax. It needed that sort of juxtaposition. Just then the last

few weeks, there has been great concern special-interest groups and

charities knew this was coming up but do not have the public

attention. There has been an outcry and a lot of very good articles

about that. All this the, the crowds at the housing benefit is

�23 billion a year and there needed to be changes. But when you hear

some of the stories about the divorced dads who may not now be

able to have his children round, there are just so many stories like

that. What a good the impact of this be? They are has been talk of

this been a new poll tax and this could be the blue touch paper.

There has been talk that this will get us all out in the streets. I am

not convinced that will happen. I do think that a lot of people are

really lost, as to why anyone would think this was the good idea. If

you look at it groups of people who will be affected, it is a list of

people lot that you do not want to upset - divorced fathers wanting to

keep in touch with their children, families with disabled children,

foster carers, for heaven's sake. These people do not need to get

kicked when they are down. Good there be a groundswell of opinion?

Come April, I think we will see what is happening. You featured the

women who had a three-bedroom house, but her grown-up children had moved

out. But she cannot do anything because they council did not have a

smaller house for her. It is going to highlight inherent differences.

Now, the question of the Electoral Commission wanting any change in

the question for the referendum. But there is still a question of

any clarification of the issues? was hoping that once we had the

wording sorted out, we could leave the procedures behind. However, it

seems not. It seems that will now dry gone. I cannot say, from my

point of view, this is not really an issue what I want to be facing

first thing in the morning. To be it looking forward to more

substantial arguments and the future? So I think it was the fact

that the commission said that people want to know what all happen

But people want to know what things will look like in the weeks and

months after it. Now, the National as a wanted to push to find out

something which is more real, because that is what has been

missing from their campaign. I am worried that this will not happen.

I think this will become more stories about who is going to what

meeting when and what is on the agenda. I think it will stay in

procedure rather than moving to more interesting matters. Bathing

things have been a bit esoteric and I think it would be helpful for

people to have some ground in an concrete ideas and what they can

base their decision on. By now, we had the start of Borgen speaking to

as earlier. I know you were impressed by seen the start of the

short, Sisse Babet Knuusen. Yes, it was fantastic. The reason that

Borgen is so successful is that ensures that politicians have a

life and have to juggle things. I think we should have the week in a

life of Nicola Sturgeon. It is all very well saying we stand up and

deal with the same issues, but when you seek people like that dealing

with issues, it is a good thing, particularly when it is women.

that said, there is voter apathy out there? Yes, that is the strange

thing. Borgen is set in a political drama, but it could be set in the

world of anything else. The fact it is set in politics at an extra

level to it. It could easily be set in the NHS. But I think the reason

we love Borgen is that it is a small nation played a major part in

the world stage. T think that is where his popularity lies? Will,

the fact that they are a nation of the similar-sized to as. But

Birgiteh Newbor is a fabulous character and it is interesting

that Nicola Sturgeon is a partly introducing her at the question and

answer session in Edinburgh tonight. Maybe we should short a little bit

more of ourselves, as politicians. I do not think it is surprising

that Nicola Sturgeon is a huge fan. She apparently treated and told

everybody to leave her alone while Borgen was on. Body, thank you very