10/02/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland

Good morning. Welcome to the programme. The Government announced

its tough new tests for meat products. Is it a case of shutting

the stable door after the horse has bolted? We will ask the Environment

Secretary and his Labour shadow and bring you the latest on the

horsemeat scandal. After Christine's disgrace, the

coalition partners are in a political fight to the death over

his vacant seat in Eastleigh. We will ask to Energy Secretary if it

is a by-election for his party. Can the NHS really be described as

the envy of the world? And in Scotland, we will be

speaking to Michael Moorer and Nicola Sturgeon about their reports

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds

tomorrow. Will be deliver the We are having to import a lot more

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds

The principle of getting high quality health care, in spite of an

ability to pay. They NHS has only one way. Is there only one way, is

any way you can change the NHS? the evidence shows that people want

to go to their hospital closest to them. Most people actually want

their local hospital to be as good as it can be and they want to

travel relatively small distances. What we have to focus on is getting

the number of elderly patients out of our hospitals, because they are

blocking the acute care beds. We have this culture now that has

developed, that people go to hospital to die have the time. 50 %

of people die in hospital. A lot of them do not need to be in hospital

at that point, they could be at home, are they could be in a home,

if we had better care from social care. Social care is broken down,

family structures have broken down, no one wants to care for her their

grandparents. People have multiple illnesses that are essentially

incurable, they need tender loving care and that is something that we

cannot prescribe. You are watching the Sunday

politics. Good morning. Welcome to Sunday

Politics Scotland. Coming up - speed reading glasses at the ready,

tomorrow, Westminster will come out fighting with the launch of the

report about Scotland's role in the UK. Holyrood are preparing a

counter-punch. They will recommend keeping the pen serving.

And we hear about the impact of welfare reform changes. My GP says

that he's not fit to work. Because I can walk I cannot get employment

support. And as to displays and vending

machines are banned, prepare for even more anti-smoking measures

coming in soon. Having two governments looking

after affairs offers the best of both worlds, according to the Prime

Minister. David Cameron is writing today in defence of the Union, head

of his government releasing a report about Scotland's role in the

UK. The Scottish government's Fiscal Commission also publish a

report tomorrow. It will recommend that they keep the sterling

immediately post-independence. It was all smiles and handshakes on

the day that Alex Salmond and David Cameron signed their Edinburgh

Agreement on the independence referendum. But be in no doubt.

These two men have a fundamental disagreement about what the outcome

of the vote should be. It is up to Alex Salmond to advance cutting

edge arguments for Scotland to become an independent country. He

will give us the detailed workings of an independent Scotland this

autumn. But the transition to independence, he says, could be

complete within 18 months of a Yes vote.

Let us look at their Internationale examples. 30 countries had been

through the process that we are about to go through. The average

timescale from the referendum to independence is 15 months. With all

these other countries can do it, then why not Scotland? These are

being questioned by the man from the union that represents senior

civil servants. We really do not see how that will be done in this

16 month period. We may be wrong, it maybe that the two governments

simply to call boxes and each say, Westminster says yes to everything,

or Holyrood concedes everything. We will wait to see, but we think it

will be more difficult than is perhaps currently perceived. Today,

the Prime Minister has weighed in. He said, those arguing for

independence are already preparing their separation transition plan is

if they have it in the back. To me, that is wrong, it is like fast-

forwarding to the closing credits before you have been allowed to see

the movie. Michael Moore has his role to play.

It is his job to find a truckload of arguments for Scotland to stay

in the Union. He will deliver the first in a series of papers on that

topic tomorrow. We must make the big issues and bring clarity to the

process, but the big issues are what matter to people across the

country and that is what we will focus on.

There is another report out tomorrow, from the chairman of the

Scottish government's economic advisers. They are promising a

well-engineered economic model for an independent Scotland. Both Alex

Salmond and David Cameron have brought in the boffins to bolster

their arguments over Scotland's future. The independence debate is

entering in the face. I am joined by the Secretary of

State for Scotland, the Liberal Democrat MP Michael Moore. We had

been hearing that the UK government will be publishing this paper

tomorrow. How will that persuade people to stay in the Union? What

kind of arguments we beat applying? I think that the report is right to

say that we move into a new phase. But the process behind us and

getting to the big issues that affect people and matter. What we

are essentially saying, the Prime Minister sets it out this morning,

is that Scotland gets the best of both worlds as part of the United

Kingdom. As Parliament, we are able to decide whether it is in

Scotland's interests, about the things that are decided here in

Scotland. But her national security, our place in the world, the

strength and opportunities of their economy, we can do that at the UK

level as well. There is a big positive case for Scotland's

continuing to be part of the United Kingdom, we will start the process

of laying out his arguments tomorrow. We hear these arguments

quite often have. What's a stance of arguments will commit a moral

that will persuade people? Their Parr Hall series of issues around

the independence debate. -- Ferrara whole series of issues. Scottish

business, Scottish jobs, around the world. What we are doing tomorrow

is setting out our view of the cornerstone of all this. Setting

out the detail of how devolution is good for Scotland. Showing how the

parliament created in the last 14 years, the new powers given to it.

We are unable to respond to the demands and wishes here in Scotland

while still having the strength and security and opportunity of the

whole of the United Kingdom. People are really hungry for facts. This

sounds like some of the old arguments being we treaded. --

retreated. Do you have any information to give to people?

need to highlight the reality that if we become independent, that is

devolution at an end. We will lose the advantages and flexibility that

comes as part of the existing arrangement, and certainly we will

be looking at what Scotland has as part of the UK and what would be at

stake if we were to got along. -- go-it-alone. You talk about the

dangers of what is at stake if we go-it-alone. It is often the

negative arguments that better to get there are putting forward. --

better together. I have just spent the last few minutes been

relentlessly positive than talking about the good things that we can

already do. We have great flexibility which means that we can

decide here in Scotland what is taught in our schools, Scottish

parliamentarians will decide that, not remote institutions like

Westminster. But where it is appropriate use Westminster, with

the banks, with trade to render world, that is a strong, positive

case for staying in the UK. The positive side of this is there to

be told, as the Prime Minister has done this morning, and we look

forward to making much of that in the Munster come. The report, some

will say, will be highlighting the negative impact on Scotland when it

comes to the European Union, that Scotland would have a very weak

negotiating position. We are setting out a reality check that

shows Scotland's situation as a very important member of the

European Union at the moment, and what we would be beating at stake,

the need for us to negotiate our terms within the European Union,

where the currency issue will be up for grabs, where the border

controls will need to be resolved, we will need to work out what we

will pay to other farmers and fishermen. That will go into a

melting pot over which we have less control. But those issues we are

bringing out euro are the kind of issues that people want answers on

and it is in your power to find out those answers from the Commission,

because the president of the commission said that it is only a

member state that can ask those kind of questions. Kenny and the

Scottish Government give the people of Scotland those definitive

answers? Can you work together? have been clear about this. The

Scotland becomes independent, it becomes a separate state and it has

to apply for membership and started the terms and conditions. Frankly,

we have not had a poor night's -- precise scenario. We have had a lot

of speculation. Just answer the court., we will be setting out

tomorrow are very clear terms, I review, backed up by legal experts,

which show that Scotland will be needing to apply for that

membership and will need to sort out its terms and conditions, which

has been a long-held view. People need to study their arguments and

make their own judgment. So you have a new legal expert, someone

with the full weight and authority behind him, saying that Scotland

will have to reapply to join the you? Is that a key point? The legal

basis of the United Kingdom, the strength we will get from the party

it, we will make sure that all of our key points are well source,

well researched and scrutinised by independent experts, so that the

case we make is as strong as possible. I think it is very strong

and will really be in force our central message. Scotland gets a

great deal by being part of the United Kingdom, the UK gets a great

deal from being part of the in European Union. Why pick that its

stake? If you have that evidence, why not approach the European

Commission and say to them, give us a definitive answer about Scotland.

For some reason, you were not doing that. When you scared of what the

commission might say? What I have watched as the Scottish Government

shuffling through a whole series of positions where they have said that

they have the opposite -- legal advice, then said they did not.

What we are setting out tomorrow is a very clear argument and report

from the UK government, backed up independently, that will show that

Scotland's place in the UK is the right place to be, is the strong

place to be, and that therefore people can take confidence from

arguments that we are making. have the Fiscal Commission report

being published tomorrow. The recommendation is that Scotland

should keep sterling post- independence. For the people of

Scotland, could you give some guarantees that the Bank of England

would recommend that Scotland perhaps could keep sterling post-

independence? So that people have that kind of stability? I am

fascinated to hear, and like you I have only seen what is in the

newspapers today, that the recommendation is to keep the pound.

We already have it is part of the United Kingdom. Why would we want

to become independent just to keep the pound. It is a very strange

argument indeed. It is in our interests, I agree with that, and

that is why Scotland staying in the UK is the way forward. Scotland

gets a much stronger and better deal as part of the UK than it

would if it went to one. We have also had another report from the

Scottish government, road map, -- Scotland's Future, which party do

disagree with most? There is a long way to go before we have all the

issues set out from the Scottish government's side. What we are

setting out tomorrow will in-depth and in detail and so a lot of the

questions that they had been unable to answer. We need to have a debate

about the time scales that will be involved. We have had predictions

about Independence Day but Scotland has not been asked to vote and has

yet. We do not know when we will vote on independence. I'm confident

that we will stay part of the UK. We need to get on to the serious

points of substance. We have your report coming tomorrow, is this the

start of the renegotiation? We have been clear from the outset that the

negotiations are not appropriate and cannot take place. However,

proper, sensible, reasoned argument about Scotland's place in the UK is

essential. Our report will set the tone for that. Thank you. Coming up

in a moment we have the Deputy First Minister, but first let us

take a look at the time line that came out of Scotland's --

Scotland's Future document, which came out last week.

If it is a yes vote, and associations begin between Holyrood

and Westminster, between Holyrood and the European Union, and between

Holyrood and other international organisations. In the middle of

which, we will have a UK general election and possibly a new

Westminster and was sating partner. The Scottish Government also wants

the Westminster to transfer the powers to allow Holyrood to

legislate for a new Scottish state. The song needs to be done for 20th

March 16. -- best song needs to be done. They will then be in the

elections for the first parliament We are hearing that the UK

Government have this coming out tomorrow and they have some

authority. It is weighty evidence, saying Scotland would have to

reapply to become a member of the European Union. It is not what do

you want, is it? I look forward to reading the paper tomorrow. I had

to laugh, listening to Michael Moore because the real uncertainty

around Scotland being a member of the youth is David Cameron. We have

been very clear that the terms of our continuing membership of the EU

would need to be negotiated, but that would happen from within the

EU. Scotland benefits a great deal from being within the EU. I think

we would be better off independent and able to stand up for our

national interest, but Europe benefits from having Scotland as a

member state. We have offered to sit down with the UK Government to

draw up that scenario and present it to the EU Commission. David

Cameron does not want to do that. It seems to be a pretty unclear

position actually, as in December you said it was your intention to

negotiate the terms of an independent Scotland's continuing

membership of the youth from within, and bent to on 7th February, two

Labour's Ken Mackintosh, you expect Scotland's transition from member

of the EU to be negotiated. So now you say you expect that. So you

have changed that. My position has not changed. It is our intention

and I fully expect that to be the case. Let me tell you in more

detail why. This is an important legal point and it is a point that

has been backed up by its experts. There is nothing in the European

treaty that would allow a country, just because it exercised its

Domecq -- democratic right to self- determination, to somehow put

outside of the European Union. If you look at countries who want to

lead the European Union, it is very complicated. And it is in

everyone's interests, for Scotland's continuing membership of

the European Union to be settled and that -- for that to be a

process which happens from within. So that is not just our expectation

but our intention and it meets the crucial test of common sense.

mention your constitution expert. The UK Government have theirs and I

was saying to Michael Moore about the joint submission to the

European Commission, because you were rebuffed by the president of

the European Commission. Have you written to the Secretary of State

to ask for some kind of joint commission? Yes, I have made it

very clear that Scottish Government is happy to do this. We disagree on

what the outcome of the referendum should be but I think in the -- and

the Electoral Commission make this point, that we have a duty to sit

down and look at the prices that would follow a "yes" vote, and make

sure we are providing as much information to the people of

Scotland as possible. The European Commission say they will only look

at a proposal coming from an existing member state. We have said

we have nothing to fear from that. We are confident in the prices we

believe would happen, so let's sit down and put that to the European

Commission. Michael Moore could not explain a few moments ago why the

UK Government is not able to do that, so I am happy to repeat the

offer to him today that we sit down and do that and then let the

European Commission look at that. Let's move on the way from the UK

Government's paper tomorrow to your paper tomorrow, from the Fiscal

Commission. It talks about leaving the union yet keeping the pound.

But if we do that, you're taking your hands of the levers of

influence, aren't you? If you keep the pound Stirling post

independence? The report tomorrow will be from the Fiscal Commission,

part of the First Minister's council of economic advisers. It is

from independent experts, and I look forward to reading the full

report. The Scottish Government will take it seriously. It would

not only be in Scotland's interests to remain within Stirling but it

would be within the interest of the rest of the UK, for example,

because of the volley of our oil and gas and whisky experts --

exports. Of course, if we are independent, what we would have

that we do not have now are the fiscal levers, the power over tax,

the Palace you need to get the economy going and to create jobs

and that is usually voluble. We would also have power over the

welfare system, for example. I read this morning David Cameron saying

the UK system of Government works for Scotland. He is living proof

that it does not, because we have Tory prime ministers that we do not

even vote for introducing policies we do not want. So you talk about

having fiscal power, taxes, but you would not have that monetary power,

and at the moment in the UK... not sure that is the case. Let me

finish. The whole point of the Act of Union was we were able to use

the plant and Scots have that political influence. So staying

with Team Sterling -- Stirling does not involve Scotland giving up any

powers that we do not currently have, but it gives us important

powers of this fiscal arrangements, powers you need to make sure you

have a strong, growing economy, creating jobs when you need those

jobs, and power over the welfare system. At the moment we are

watching the welfare state and being dismantled before our eyes.

The papers this morning are full of the stories are that the dreaded

bedroom tax. Let's stick with monetary policy and the Bank of

England governor, the new one, Mark Carney, is now in the UK. What

plans to your administration have to meet him? We would be very happy

to meet with him and with any representatives of the UK

Government, for example, to discuss all of this, because it is right,

going back to Europe, that while we have differing opinions on these

matters, we are prepared to have discussions and prepare the ground

for the eventuality of Scotland voting "yes" in the referendum. I

am sure Mark Carney and other representatives of the UK

Government will be interested to read the paper from the Fiscal

Commission tomorrow, because it is produced by a range of eminent

experts. Let's get on to your document this week, Scotland's

Future. That was published, the road map to independence day but

the time round has been severely criticised by people. One expert

said it was a road map that would eventually lead to a car crash.

I heard another on BBC radio yesterday morning saying he thought

it was a very leisurely timescale. It is a time scale based on

precedent. If you look at 30 countries who have become

independent after a referendum, 15 months is the average time that at

look. Scotland, and this is important, already has much of the

machinery of Government. We have our own parliament, Government,

civil services, an independent judicial commission in Scotland.

The key point is that Scotland votes "yes" it is also in the

interest of the rest of the UK for these matters to be resolved as

quickly and smoothly as possible and I believe that is what happened.

But I believe the report was heavily criticised by a other

experts. Let me just finish. Looking at the constitutional

platform you are setting up, what is that house way -- halfway house

between 2014 and 2016? After there is an independent parliament

elected, the parliament will have the ability to develop a written

constitution for the future of Scotland but what we need to see

between 2014 and 2016 is a transfer of powers that allows that

independent parliament to be elected and start to get to work.

We want to see a better Scotland. Thank you.

Coming up after the news, we are looking at ATOS, the organisation

which tests people 4th it has to work. It is being condemned as a

failure by a House of Commons committee. We are also looking at...

Joined us in a few minutes. Time for the BBC News and Reporting

Scotland. The Environment Minister, Owen

Paterson, has moved to reassure shoppers that all processed meat

products currently on sale in supermarkets are safe to eat.

Speaking on this programme, he said he had been reassured by the FT

Standards Authority, despite the fact that tests on a whole range of

processed meat products to see if they contain horse meat are being

carried out. How much contamination has there

been to our food? The Government is already warning they could be more

bad news ahead, after the meat in something this lasagne has labelled

as beef was found to be up to 100 % horse. Tests are now being carried

out across the industry with results due by Friday. People are

eating horse meat unerringly this lunch time. That is possible and

that is why we are carrying out this screening. It looks as if the

problem is with processed beef, and it looks as if there has been no

criminal substitution of beef with a horse. A number of retailers have

been caught up. Findus is taking legal advice over whether there are

crowns of pursuing a case against its suppliers. Ministers have been

under fire for not reacting quicker and Labour says congeners --

consumers have been given conflicting advice. People are

making Joyce is not to buy processed meat and ministers are

advised by the feats standards agency. It says, do not eat Findus

beef products. Owen Paterson says, I would happily tucking. There will

now be a look at stricter rules. The Government is expected to

announce an extension of the freeze on inheritance tax to help pay for

more state funded care for the elderly in England. It means

thousands more people will become liable for the tax.

If a month-old baby boy is recovering well in hospital after

reportedly having a finger torn off by a fox as he slept in his cot.

The child was brushed from his home in south-east London to St Thomas's

Hospital, where surgeons were able to reattach his finger.

The former England and Tottenham player Paul Gascoigne is reported

to have been placed in an intensive care unit after collapsing. He flew

to America this week to check into a rehabilitation clinic in Arizona

to deal with his drink problems. His trip and time in we have is

being paid for by friends. More on BBC One at 6pm.

Good afternoon. The UK Government is appearing too -- preparing to

release a report tomorrow on Scottish independence. We have been

told that they will publish new evidence to bolster their position

that Scotland will need to reapply for small -- new EU membership.

will be publishing are view, backed up by experts, which shows that

Scotland will need to apply for its membership.

Scotland's Environment Secretary will discuss with his UK

counterpart later to discuss the horse meat scandal. Inspections

have been carried out in Scotland after it emerged some meat products

south of the border contained 100 % horse meat. Richard Lochhead says

no Scottish manufacturers are currently affected. People speak to

Owen Paterson this afternoon. The interim Scotland will be coach,

Scott Johnson, has claimed the team's aim is now winning the Six

Nations Championship after ending their long wait for a victory in

the tournament. The Scots defeated Italy 34-10 at Murrayfield, their

first Six Nations win in two years. A cloudy picture for the bulk of

the country this afternoon, with continued outbreaks of rain forces

and Scotland with snow falling in land over the high ground. Wintery

showers will continue to feed into eastern parts of the country on a

fresh easterly wind, again with snow over the high ground inland.

The best of the weather this afternoon for north-western parts

and places like Inverness with plenty of sunshine, though cold

MPs at Westminster have launched a scathing attack on the UK

Government's welfare reforms. The Public Audit Committee says the

fit-for-work tests are failing and all too often, leading to the wrong

decisions being mate. It is a complaint MSPs and Holyrood's

Welfare Reform Committee has been hearing a lot about this week.

This process is pushing me to the very edge. This man used to be a

debt -- vet before he developed fibromyalgia. He has been on

incapacity benefit for Vitali Klitschko years but has recently

been assessed as able to work. -- for eight years. My GP says, he is

not able to work, because I am able to walk. This is because I make an

effort to go out. So now I cannot get support. Lesley's husband is in

the same situation. He retired five years ago with mental and physical

issues. Now he has been cleared for work, too. She says more notice

needs -- needs to be taken of mental health issues. Because he

was very slow and took a long time to do the physical part, because he

had to do bending and stretching, and that it quite a bit of time,

the amount of time that was left was very short, so therefore it had

to be very rushed. She says the refusal of GPs to give her husband

a medical report because of their blanket acceptance of these

benefits test did not help. view was that very understanding of

how I was feeling, but a very careful to say the benefits system,

we cannot afford the benefits system, the Government, and, you

know, people have to be assessed, and if you are assessed as fit, you

are fit. And now Westminster's Public Audit Committee says the

Department of Work and Pensions is making too many mistakes. Do you

know of those who are turned down for Employment? 40% of them appeal

and 38 % of them win that appeal. There is something wrong with an

assessment that throws up and many appeals in the first place but that

many successful appeals is a particular worry. The UK Government

insists the benefits assessment process is improving. He says the

previous system abandoned's people to a life on benefits. Now they are

checking to see if they could go back to work with the right support.

The system was not as effective as it could be. We are reforming it to

make sure we get more decisions right first time. So far, 17,000

Scots have been reclassified as fit for work by Government assessors,

ATOS. Those who feel they have been badly treated say they are just

calling for a fairer system. More on this now. I am joined by

the Labour MP, and Beck, chair of the House of Commons working

pension select committee. -- Anne The committee have criticised ATOS.

But it you is your government that awarded it and then re warded it in

2005. The law process dead start under the last Labour government,

but I would like to hope that were we still in power we would have

been listening to the deluge of criticism that has been coming down

on this process under way it has been working in practice. We only

introduced it far new claimants. But what we are seeing is those who

were previously on incapacity benefit I now been moved on to the

new benefit system, and are having to go through the assessment

process. The system inherited from Labour, says the minister, was not

fit for purpose. Independent reviews have found that there is

not much need for a fireman ATOS. - - for a reform in ATOS. The way

that it was designed was not fit for purpose. But it was then

incumbent on the government to change the way that it was actually

being delivered. There is nothing to stop me doing that. There's

nothing to stop us looking again at the contract. The important thing

is to look at what is going wrong and what needs to be changed in

order to make these assessments. Most people would agree that

somebody has to be assessed if they are going to get benefits, but to

make those assessments much more accurate, much more softer, in a

way, in the way that it reflects the people and their illnesses that

they have and gets the positions right. The thing that is most

heartbreaking for people is that when these decisions are wrong and

when they go to the appeal they are not given any extra evidence, the

decisions are being overturned at us on the same evidence. What is

the problem with ATOS? Why have we seen so many appeals? There are a

couple of reasons. One is that ATOS as a company decided to use a

computer program to work out their assessments. That means that it has

become very mechanistic. It was always a functional test, many who

will think it is a medical test, it is not. And so, the computer tends

to see everything very much in black and white. The Public

Accounts Committee said that there was not any kind of intent to try

to get other companies who would be interested in this he would deliver

it quite differently, in a more face-to-face interview process.

That is one of the things that has been going wrong. Like me pick up

on that point. That is the trouble with ATOS. It is a monopoly

supplier. That is it. There are companies throughout the world to

do this sort of thing for other governments, but they do not do it

in the same way. They have their own system, its computer system,

and that is the problem. The reason the numbers are going up is because

the government has speeded up the roll-out, or what they call the

migration, from those that are presently on capacity benefit.

Putting them on to employments support allowance. There are 11,000

letters a week going out to people who are presently on incapacity

benefit and they are being asked to go when it and to fill in a form

and then going for an assessment. Because these are people who have

already had benefits, when the lose it, inevitably they are going to

appeal. That is where the numbers of Appeal have gone up. But the

decisions have also sometimes been wrong in the first place as well.

Thank you for joining us. A ban on tobacco displays in supermarkets

comes into effect at the end of April, but how far will it go

towards persuading smokers to kick the habit? Anti-smoking campaigners

say that more radical measures are needed if Scotland is to become

smoke-free. With the Scottish Government to reveal its new

strategy in the next few weeks, we look at what options are.

The dangers of smoking have been known since the late 1950s, but it

was only in 2006 that Scotland became the first part of the UK to

ban smoking in enclosed public places and it has been seen as a

success, with a 17 % drop in heart attacks in the first year, a

reduction in sheltered asthma, and have fallen premature births. But

while the number of people lighting up has fallen, smoking still leads

to 13,500 deaths in Scotland each year. That is one in five. It is

also responsible for a 33,500 hospital measures. -- hospital

admissions. At the end of April, Scotland will follow England's

example of introducing restrictions on tobacco displays in bigger

stores. Vending machine at the sales were also be illegal. But

campaigners say that more needs to be done. We need to Pate smoking

out of fashion. We need to have standardised packaging for tobacco

products. Mistily a plot that in. It is about getting rid of the

glitzy in injury that gets young people addicted. -- in injury.

There are some smokers who do want to quit, but there are many smokers

to enjoy it and have no intention of giving up and the more that you

try to bully them, the more they are likely to take their hilts in -

- dig their heels in. This advert is currently being shown in Wales.

It is already illegal in South Africa and some States and Canada,

Australia and the US to smoke in your car. Could it be on the cards

here? The Public Health Minister is not giving much away. It is

important to look at the whole range of measures that we can take

forward that can help to contribute to reducing smoking in Scotland.

Trying to reduce the number of young people that are attracted to

it, we have had some success with that.

The smoking ban has become an accepted part of everyday life in

Scotland but will further Tobacco's restrictions be as welcome and

effective? We are joined by Professor Gerard

Hastings from Centre for Tobacco Control Research and the Institute

of Social Marketing at Stirling University. Thank you for joining

us. Can you enlighten us as to what the Scottish Government's tobacco

control strategy might be? The minister was quite tight lipped.

is his strategy, so why do not blame him. Listening to his report,

it is a very good news story for Scotland. We have made enormous

progress over the last few generations year. The majority of

people were smoking in Scotland and it was taken for granted as a norm,

now it is less than a quarter. What we do need to focus on his young

people. Adults do not take up smoking. When we talk about adults

enjoying their smoking, it ignores the fact that most adults regret

ever starting, but also that it is a paediatric phenomenon. Only 5% of

the population smoking weed been then -- would be the ideal. Are you

wanting to follow the Australian model and have some gruesome

pictures on the carton? packaging should be seen not as a

marketing tool of the industry. It is a multinational industry that is

exploiting young people and kills one in two of its loyalist

customers. Scotland should be rightly angry. It is then he should

be in our minds as we move forward on this issue. It is not just a

matter of me wanting to change things for the children, we all

want that. Even the very few people that are delighted to be smokers,

even the would never want children to take up this habit. The pro-

smoking lobby, are pro-choice lobby say that the rate of smoking has

not fallen that dramatically since evolutions -- since devolution. But

tobacco control has gone up 15 fold. It is not as much of this excess it

were trying to portray it be? are not thinking it through. Think

about the item that he had been the date lay before her about

incapacity benefit. How many of those people have got their to

tobacco-related illness. It teaches people faster, it can take ten

years of your life in every sense. -- it ages people faster. My

argument could not be fiscal, it is moral. It is simply wrong that

children are pooled into an industry that makes them addicted

and then kills them. How much is smoking still linked to

deprivation? Enormously. If you go to theirs then you will find barely

any smokers. If you go to Drumchapel you will find large

sectors of the population smoking. It is enormously so, it is a very

MSPs approved the annual budget of �28 billion for 2013-14. Last

minute revisions including more money for colleges and the housing

budget. This Government is investing to deliver for Scotland's

young people in the future. Spontaneous applause across this

part of the chamber for a �24 million cut to colleges. The Royal

Bank of Scotland has agreed to pay nearly �400 million in fines. It is

after the rigging of interest rates in the Libor scandal.

In Westminster MPs approved a marriage. Scotland has published a

similar bill which is up for consultation at the moment.

And a new Scotland football manager in the end against Estonia.

Do you think the politicians involved in the referendum debate

will like that? Let's take a look at the big

political events coming up in The Week Ahead.

We have an academic double act this week, with Professor Murray Pittock,

vice-principal of does the University, and Professor Adam

Tomkins, a constitutional expert and Professor of Public Law at the

same institution. Good afternoon. Murray, you have your reading

glasses ready this week for these reports coming out? I will get

through as many as I can. I am sure I will not get through them as fast

as the politicians, but it is important. We have you writing this

week saying it we will have your "yes" vote in the independence

referendum. One of the reports coming out in the Sunday Herald is

up at the Fiscal Commission and on the front page we have the pound

logo. Do you think this is something that the Scottish

Government will be able to pursue? It is quite a controversial issue,

trying to keep the pound but yet separating from the UK. In some

ways, we see this as rather too much of a controversial issue, and

to take our closest neighbour, in some ways, Ireland, Ireland left

the Stirling system on 30th March 1979, about 57 years after the

Irish Free State was formed. The idea that countries outside the

estate whose currency... A currency from the state which is not their

own state is not unknown in the present world from sovereign states

in South America to the US dollar. But in terms of Stirling, the Irish

example, though it is a very different world, clearly shows

there is no reason why an independent Scotland should not

keep the pound. Adam, you have been published as well this week,

looking at the road map for the independence referendum. First,

what is your position on the currency, what the Fiscal

Commission are coming out with tomorrow? I do not know, I will

read it tomorrow if I get time, thaw as soon as I can there afters.

I agree with Murray. I see no reason why England and Scotland

cannot keep the pound, but it is one of those very many issues.

There are hundreds, probably thousands, that will need to be

carefully, Felipe negotiated, between an independent Scotland,

the rest are beat UK and the rest of the world in the event that

Scotland does boat for independence in 2014. We have not been told the

date but that is when we assume it is. It is one of those issues that

will have to be talked about extremely carefully. Murray, there

is a feeling people are looking for sub-standard facts at the moment.

Michael Moore earlier taught about the UK Government report. This

claim baby talk about, Scotland having to reapply for EU membership.

I will wait and see the report. One of the ways to get fat, and I do

not want to undermine our own position here, one of the ways to

get facts, he is when experts used to reflect on the things cautiously

and carefully, it is quite possible and they could do this all the way

to polling day and Deanne, I have set some experts battling away at

each of in opposition, because that is the nature of political and

legal expertise, it is a practice pitch, and it is about conflict

rather than conflict resolution. We need to have facts and there are a

lot of facts out there. They could be more. They could be stronger

research about the nature of comparative transitions. That is an

important thing to get in place over the next 18 months. Whether

they could be bat the Government has so they could be a transition

to independence in 16 months. That is viewed as controversial. Third

parties could put a spoke in the wheels there but we have to spot --

start somewhere. Adam, you are a constitutional expert. What do you

think about the Government coming out with their expert tomorrow? How

do you think this place out with voters? My expert versus your

expert. I did not see any expert in the Scottish Government report this

week. What we will see on Monday is a full legal analysis of where we

are in terms of Scotland's institution now and where we would

be in the future if Scotland votes for independence. In this respect,

the UK Government is doing exactly what it was told to do by the

Electoral Commission in its report a couple of weeks ago where except

those governments should come together and talk as clearly as

they possibly can about the consequences of the decision that

we in Scotland will take in 2014, and whether we vote "yes" or "no".

What will happen next. And the reason I was so angry at what the

Scottish Government published this week is because they might win, and

if they win, they are going to have to negotiate hard with the rest of

the UK and the rest of the EU. If the 16th flimsy pages they

published this week is the best they can do, we are in real, deep

trouble. Would you regard it as 16 flimsy pages, Murray? It is a

statement of the Scottish Government's position. Their

difficulty is this, that the more of their hand they show early, the

more it will be attacked, and pigs and misrepresented, so although I

understand Adam's anxiety that the negotiations, I doubt that that

will be the case. What I do see is that there is quite a lot of

political... Quite a lot of political ill-will and name-calling

as there has been throughout my entire lifetime about nationalism,

and it is important to ensure that you do not put everything out on

the table so it can depicts part of by better resourced governments,

better resourced media throughout the UK long before the vote.

other issue. The front page, SNP asleep on drop over horse meat.

Let's not get into the issues. But a fairly gruesome topic for the

public. I am sure it is a rather political topic for the public. But

I see everything through the eyes of a constitutional lawyer. Food

Standards is an issue whinges the shared responsibility of the UK and

Scottish governments. -- the witches. This is an instance where

we are better together. The food goes across our border. And this is

an instance where, if Richard Lochhead had not co-operated with

the UK Government, we would have had the press saying that the SNP

get nothing for consumers in Carlisle. Thank you buys very much.