10/02/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate in Scotland.

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 10/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Good morning. Welcome to the programme. The Government announced


its tough new tests for meat products. Is it a case of shutting


the stable door after the horse has bolted? We will ask the Environment


Secretary and his Labour shadow and bring you the latest on the


horsemeat scandal. After Christine's disgrace, the


coalition partners are in a political fight to the death over


his vacant seat in Eastleigh. We will ask to Energy Secretary if it


is a by-election for his party. Can the NHS really be described as


the envy of the world? And in Scotland, we will be


speaking to Michael Moorer and Nicola Sturgeon about their reports


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds


tomorrow. Will be deliver the We are having to import a lot more


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1856 seconds


The principle of getting high quality health care, in spite of an


ability to pay. They NHS has only one way. Is there only one way, is


any way you can change the NHS? the evidence shows that people want


to go to their hospital closest to them. Most people actually want


their local hospital to be as good as it can be and they want to


travel relatively small distances. What we have to focus on is getting


the number of elderly patients out of our hospitals, because they are


blocking the acute care beds. We have this culture now that has


developed, that people go to hospital to die have the time. 50 %


of people die in hospital. A lot of them do not need to be in hospital


at that point, they could be at home, are they could be in a home,


if we had better care from social care. Social care is broken down,


family structures have broken down, no one wants to care for her their


grandparents. People have multiple illnesses that are essentially


incurable, they need tender loving care and that is something that we


cannot prescribe. You are watching the Sunday


politics. Good morning. Welcome to Sunday


Politics Scotland. Coming up - speed reading glasses at the ready,


tomorrow, Westminster will come out fighting with the launch of the


report about Scotland's role in the UK. Holyrood are preparing a


counter-punch. They will recommend keeping the pen serving.


And we hear about the impact of welfare reform changes. My GP says


that he's not fit to work. Because I can walk I cannot get employment


support. And as to displays and vending


machines are banned, prepare for even more anti-smoking measures


coming in soon. Having two governments looking


after affairs offers the best of both worlds, according to the Prime


Minister. David Cameron is writing today in defence of the Union, head


of his government releasing a report about Scotland's role in the


UK. The Scottish government's Fiscal Commission also publish a


report tomorrow. It will recommend that they keep the sterling


immediately post-independence. It was all smiles and handshakes on


the day that Alex Salmond and David Cameron signed their Edinburgh


Agreement on the independence referendum. But be in no doubt.


These two men have a fundamental disagreement about what the outcome


of the vote should be. It is up to Alex Salmond to advance cutting


edge arguments for Scotland to become an independent country. He


will give us the detailed workings of an independent Scotland this


autumn. But the transition to independence, he says, could be


complete within 18 months of a Yes vote.


Let us look at their Internationale examples. 30 countries had been


through the process that we are about to go through. The average


timescale from the referendum to independence is 15 months. With all


these other countries can do it, then why not Scotland? These are


being questioned by the man from the union that represents senior


civil servants. We really do not see how that will be done in this


16 month period. We may be wrong, it maybe that the two governments


simply to call boxes and each say, Westminster says yes to everything,


or Holyrood concedes everything. We will wait to see, but we think it


will be more difficult than is perhaps currently perceived. Today,


the Prime Minister has weighed in. He said, those arguing for


independence are already preparing their separation transition plan is


if they have it in the back. To me, that is wrong, it is like fast-


forwarding to the closing credits before you have been allowed to see


the movie. Michael Moore has his role to play.


It is his job to find a truckload of arguments for Scotland to stay


in the Union. He will deliver the first in a series of papers on that


topic tomorrow. We must make the big issues and bring clarity to the


process, but the big issues are what matter to people across the


country and that is what we will focus on.


There is another report out tomorrow, from the chairman of the


Scottish government's economic advisers. They are promising a


well-engineered economic model for an independent Scotland. Both Alex


Salmond and David Cameron have brought in the boffins to bolster


their arguments over Scotland's future. The independence debate is


entering in the face. I am joined by the Secretary of


State for Scotland, the Liberal Democrat MP Michael Moore. We had


been hearing that the UK government will be publishing this paper


tomorrow. How will that persuade people to stay in the Union? What


kind of arguments we beat applying? I think that the report is right to


say that we move into a new phase. But the process behind us and


getting to the big issues that affect people and matter. What we


are essentially saying, the Prime Minister sets it out this morning,


is that Scotland gets the best of both worlds as part of the United


Kingdom. As Parliament, we are able to decide whether it is in


Scotland's interests, about the things that are decided here in


Scotland. But her national security, our place in the world, the


strength and opportunities of their economy, we can do that at the UK


level as well. There is a big positive case for Scotland's


continuing to be part of the United Kingdom, we will start the process


of laying out his arguments tomorrow. We hear these arguments


quite often have. What's a stance of arguments will commit a moral


that will persuade people? Their Parr Hall series of issues around


the independence debate. -- Ferrara whole series of issues. Scottish


business, Scottish jobs, around the world. What we are doing tomorrow


is setting out our view of the cornerstone of all this. Setting


out the detail of how devolution is good for Scotland. Showing how the


parliament created in the last 14 years, the new powers given to it.


We are unable to respond to the demands and wishes here in Scotland


while still having the strength and security and opportunity of the


whole of the United Kingdom. People are really hungry for facts. This


sounds like some of the old arguments being we treaded. --


retreated. Do you have any information to give to people?


need to highlight the reality that if we become independent, that is


devolution at an end. We will lose the advantages and flexibility that


comes as part of the existing arrangement, and certainly we will


be looking at what Scotland has as part of the UK and what would be at


stake if we were to got along. -- go-it-alone. You talk about the


dangers of what is at stake if we go-it-alone. It is often the


negative arguments that better to get there are putting forward. --


better together. I have just spent the last few minutes been


relentlessly positive than talking about the good things that we can


already do. We have great flexibility which means that we can


decide here in Scotland what is taught in our schools, Scottish


parliamentarians will decide that, not remote institutions like


Westminster. But where it is appropriate use Westminster, with


the banks, with trade to render world, that is a strong, positive


case for staying in the UK. The positive side of this is there to


be told, as the Prime Minister has done this morning, and we look


forward to making much of that in the Munster come. The report, some


will say, will be highlighting the negative impact on Scotland when it


comes to the European Union, that Scotland would have a very weak


negotiating position. We are setting out a reality check that


shows Scotland's situation as a very important member of the


European Union at the moment, and what we would be beating at stake,


the need for us to negotiate our terms within the European Union,


where the currency issue will be up for grabs, where the border


controls will need to be resolved, we will need to work out what we


will pay to other farmers and fishermen. That will go into a


melting pot over which we have less control. But those issues we are


bringing out euro are the kind of issues that people want answers on


and it is in your power to find out those answers from the Commission,


because the president of the commission said that it is only a


member state that can ask those kind of questions. Kenny and the


Scottish Government give the people of Scotland those definitive


answers? Can you work together? have been clear about this. The


Scotland becomes independent, it becomes a separate state and it has


to apply for membership and started the terms and conditions. Frankly,


we have not had a poor night's -- precise scenario. We have had a lot


of speculation. Just answer the court., we will be setting out


tomorrow are very clear terms, I review, backed up by legal experts,


which show that Scotland will be needing to apply for that


membership and will need to sort out its terms and conditions, which


has been a long-held view. People need to study their arguments and


make their own judgment. So you have a new legal expert, someone


with the full weight and authority behind him, saying that Scotland


will have to reapply to join the you? Is that a key point? The legal


basis of the United Kingdom, the strength we will get from the party


it, we will make sure that all of our key points are well source,


well researched and scrutinised by independent experts, so that the


case we make is as strong as possible. I think it is very strong


and will really be in force our central message. Scotland gets a


great deal by being part of the United Kingdom, the UK gets a great


deal from being part of the in European Union. Why pick that its


stake? If you have that evidence, why not approach the European


Commission and say to them, give us a definitive answer about Scotland.


For some reason, you were not doing that. When you scared of what the


commission might say? What I have watched as the Scottish Government


shuffling through a whole series of positions where they have said that


they have the opposite -- legal advice, then said they did not.


What we are setting out tomorrow is a very clear argument and report


from the UK government, backed up independently, that will show that


Scotland's place in the UK is the right place to be, is the strong


place to be, and that therefore people can take confidence from


arguments that we are making. have the Fiscal Commission report


being published tomorrow. The recommendation is that Scotland


should keep sterling post- independence. For the people of


Scotland, could you give some guarantees that the Bank of England


would recommend that Scotland perhaps could keep sterling post-


independence? So that people have that kind of stability? I am


fascinated to hear, and like you I have only seen what is in the


newspapers today, that the recommendation is to keep the pound.


We already have it is part of the United Kingdom. Why would we want


to become independent just to keep the pound. It is a very strange


argument indeed. It is in our interests, I agree with that, and


that is why Scotland staying in the UK is the way forward. Scotland


gets a much stronger and better deal as part of the UK than it


would if it went to one. We have also had another report from the


Scottish government, road map, -- Scotland's Future, which party do


disagree with most? There is a long way to go before we have all the


issues set out from the Scottish government's side. What we are


setting out tomorrow will in-depth and in detail and so a lot of the


questions that they had been unable to answer. We need to have a debate


about the time scales that will be involved. We have had predictions


about Independence Day but Scotland has not been asked to vote and has


yet. We do not know when we will vote on independence. I'm confident


that we will stay part of the UK. We need to get on to the serious


points of substance. We have your report coming tomorrow, is this the


start of the renegotiation? We have been clear from the outset that the


negotiations are not appropriate and cannot take place. However,


proper, sensible, reasoned argument about Scotland's place in the UK is


essential. Our report will set the tone for that. Thank you. Coming up


in a moment we have the Deputy First Minister, but first let us


take a look at the time line that came out of Scotland's --


Scotland's Future document, which came out last week.


If it is a yes vote, and associations begin between Holyrood


and Westminster, between Holyrood and the European Union, and between


Holyrood and other international organisations. In the middle of


which, we will have a UK general election and possibly a new


Westminster and was sating partner. The Scottish Government also wants


the Westminster to transfer the powers to allow Holyrood to


legislate for a new Scottish state. The song needs to be done for 20th


March 16. -- best song needs to be done. They will then be in the


elections for the first parliament We are hearing that the UK


Government have this coming out tomorrow and they have some


authority. It is weighty evidence, saying Scotland would have to


reapply to become a member of the European Union. It is not what do


you want, is it? I look forward to reading the paper tomorrow. I had


to laugh, listening to Michael Moore because the real uncertainty


around Scotland being a member of the youth is David Cameron. We have


been very clear that the terms of our continuing membership of the EU


would need to be negotiated, but that would happen from within the


EU. Scotland benefits a great deal from being within the EU. I think


we would be better off independent and able to stand up for our


national interest, but Europe benefits from having Scotland as a


member state. We have offered to sit down with the UK Government to


draw up that scenario and present it to the EU Commission. David


Cameron does not want to do that. It seems to be a pretty unclear


position actually, as in December you said it was your intention to


negotiate the terms of an independent Scotland's continuing


membership of the youth from within, and bent to on 7th February, two


Labour's Ken Mackintosh, you expect Scotland's transition from member


of the EU to be negotiated. So now you say you expect that. So you


have changed that. My position has not changed. It is our intention


and I fully expect that to be the case. Let me tell you in more


detail why. This is an important legal point and it is a point that


has been backed up by its experts. There is nothing in the European


treaty that would allow a country, just because it exercised its


Domecq -- democratic right to self- determination, to somehow put


outside of the European Union. If you look at countries who want to


lead the European Union, it is very complicated. And it is in


everyone's interests, for Scotland's continuing membership of


the European Union to be settled and that -- for that to be a


process which happens from within. So that is not just our expectation


but our intention and it meets the crucial test of common sense.


mention your constitution expert. The UK Government have theirs and I


was saying to Michael Moore about the joint submission to the


European Commission, because you were rebuffed by the president of


the European Commission. Have you written to the Secretary of State


to ask for some kind of joint commission? Yes, I have made it


very clear that Scottish Government is happy to do this. We disagree on


what the outcome of the referendum should be but I think in the -- and


the Electoral Commission make this point, that we have a duty to sit


down and look at the prices that would follow a "yes" vote, and make


sure we are providing as much information to the people of


Scotland as possible. The European Commission say they will only look


at a proposal coming from an existing member state. We have said


we have nothing to fear from that. We are confident in the prices we


believe would happen, so let's sit down and put that to the European


Commission. Michael Moore could not explain a few moments ago why the


UK Government is not able to do that, so I am happy to repeat the


offer to him today that we sit down and do that and then let the


European Commission look at that. Let's move on the way from the UK


Government's paper tomorrow to your paper tomorrow, from the Fiscal


Commission. It talks about leaving the union yet keeping the pound.


But if we do that, you're taking your hands of the levers of


influence, aren't you? If you keep the pound Stirling post


independence? The report tomorrow will be from the Fiscal Commission,


part of the First Minister's council of economic advisers. It is


from independent experts, and I look forward to reading the full


report. The Scottish Government will take it seriously. It would


not only be in Scotland's interests to remain within Stirling but it


would be within the interest of the rest of the UK, for example,


because of the volley of our oil and gas and whisky experts --


exports. Of course, if we are independent, what we would have


that we do not have now are the fiscal levers, the power over tax,


the Palace you need to get the economy going and to create jobs


and that is usually voluble. We would also have power over the


welfare system, for example. I read this morning David Cameron saying


the UK system of Government works for Scotland. He is living proof


that it does not, because we have Tory prime ministers that we do not


even vote for introducing policies we do not want. So you talk about


having fiscal power, taxes, but you would not have that monetary power,


and at the moment in the UK... not sure that is the case. Let me


finish. The whole point of the Act of Union was we were able to use


the plant and Scots have that political influence. So staying


with Team Sterling -- Stirling does not involve Scotland giving up any


powers that we do not currently have, but it gives us important


powers of this fiscal arrangements, powers you need to make sure you


have a strong, growing economy, creating jobs when you need those


jobs, and power over the welfare system. At the moment we are


watching the welfare state and being dismantled before our eyes.


The papers this morning are full of the stories are that the dreaded


bedroom tax. Let's stick with monetary policy and the Bank of


England governor, the new one, Mark Carney, is now in the UK. What


plans to your administration have to meet him? We would be very happy


to meet with him and with any representatives of the UK


Government, for example, to discuss all of this, because it is right,


going back to Europe, that while we have differing opinions on these


matters, we are prepared to have discussions and prepare the ground


for the eventuality of Scotland voting "yes" in the referendum. I


am sure Mark Carney and other representatives of the UK


Government will be interested to read the paper from the Fiscal


Commission tomorrow, because it is produced by a range of eminent


experts. Let's get on to your document this week, Scotland's


Future. That was published, the road map to independence day but


the time round has been severely criticised by people. One expert


said it was a road map that would eventually lead to a car crash.


I heard another on BBC radio yesterday morning saying he thought


it was a very leisurely timescale. It is a time scale based on


precedent. If you look at 30 countries who have become


independent after a referendum, 15 months is the average time that at


look. Scotland, and this is important, already has much of the


machinery of Government. We have our own parliament, Government,


civil services, an independent judicial commission in Scotland.


The key point is that Scotland votes "yes" it is also in the


interest of the rest of the UK for these matters to be resolved as


quickly and smoothly as possible and I believe that is what happened.


But I believe the report was heavily criticised by a other


experts. Let me just finish. Looking at the constitutional


platform you are setting up, what is that house way -- halfway house


between 2014 and 2016? After there is an independent parliament


elected, the parliament will have the ability to develop a written


constitution for the future of Scotland but what we need to see


between 2014 and 2016 is a transfer of powers that allows that


independent parliament to be elected and start to get to work.


We want to see a better Scotland. Thank you.


Coming up after the news, we are looking at ATOS, the organisation


which tests people 4th it has to work. It is being condemned as a


failure by a House of Commons committee. We are also looking at...


Joined us in a few minutes. Time for the BBC News and Reporting


Scotland. The Environment Minister, Owen


Paterson, has moved to reassure shoppers that all processed meat


products currently on sale in supermarkets are safe to eat.


Speaking on this programme, he said he had been reassured by the FT


Standards Authority, despite the fact that tests on a whole range of


processed meat products to see if they contain horse meat are being


carried out. How much contamination has there


been to our food? The Government is already warning they could be more


bad news ahead, after the meat in something this lasagne has labelled


as beef was found to be up to 100 % horse. Tests are now being carried


out across the industry with results due by Friday. People are


eating horse meat unerringly this lunch time. That is possible and


that is why we are carrying out this screening. It looks as if the


problem is with processed beef, and it looks as if there has been no


criminal substitution of beef with a horse. A number of retailers have


been caught up. Findus is taking legal advice over whether there are


crowns of pursuing a case against its suppliers. Ministers have been


under fire for not reacting quicker and Labour says congeners --


consumers have been given conflicting advice. People are


making Joyce is not to buy processed meat and ministers are


advised by the feats standards agency. It says, do not eat Findus


beef products. Owen Paterson says, I would happily tucking. There will


now be a look at stricter rules. The Government is expected to


announce an extension of the freeze on inheritance tax to help pay for


more state funded care for the elderly in England. It means


thousands more people will become liable for the tax.


If a month-old baby boy is recovering well in hospital after


reportedly having a finger torn off by a fox as he slept in his cot.


The child was brushed from his home in south-east London to St Thomas's


Hospital, where surgeons were able to reattach his finger.


The former England and Tottenham player Paul Gascoigne is reported


to have been placed in an intensive care unit after collapsing. He flew


to America this week to check into a rehabilitation clinic in Arizona


to deal with his drink problems. His trip and time in we have is


being paid for by friends. More on BBC One at 6pm.


Good afternoon. The UK Government is appearing too -- preparing to


release a report tomorrow on Scottish independence. We have been


told that they will publish new evidence to bolster their position


that Scotland will need to reapply for small -- new EU membership.


will be publishing are view, backed up by experts, which shows that


Scotland will need to apply for its membership.


Scotland's Environment Secretary will discuss with his UK


counterpart later to discuss the horse meat scandal. Inspections


have been carried out in Scotland after it emerged some meat products


south of the border contained 100 % horse meat. Richard Lochhead says


no Scottish manufacturers are currently affected. People speak to


Owen Paterson this afternoon. The interim Scotland will be coach,


Scott Johnson, has claimed the team's aim is now winning the Six


Nations Championship after ending their long wait for a victory in


the tournament. The Scots defeated Italy 34-10 at Murrayfield, their


first Six Nations win in two years. A cloudy picture for the bulk of


the country this afternoon, with continued outbreaks of rain forces


and Scotland with snow falling in land over the high ground. Wintery


showers will continue to feed into eastern parts of the country on a


fresh easterly wind, again with snow over the high ground inland.


The best of the weather this afternoon for north-western parts


and places like Inverness with plenty of sunshine, though cold


MPs at Westminster have launched a scathing attack on the UK


Government's welfare reforms. The Public Audit Committee says the


fit-for-work tests are failing and all too often, leading to the wrong


decisions being mate. It is a complaint MSPs and Holyrood's


Welfare Reform Committee has been hearing a lot about this week.


This process is pushing me to the very edge. This man used to be a


debt -- vet before he developed fibromyalgia. He has been on


incapacity benefit for Vitali Klitschko years but has recently


been assessed as able to work. -- for eight years. My GP says, he is


not able to work, because I am able to walk. This is because I make an


effort to go out. So now I cannot get support. Lesley's husband is in


the same situation. He retired five years ago with mental and physical


issues. Now he has been cleared for work, too. She says more notice


needs -- needs to be taken of mental health issues. Because he


was very slow and took a long time to do the physical part, because he


had to do bending and stretching, and that it quite a bit of time,


the amount of time that was left was very short, so therefore it had


to be very rushed. She says the refusal of GPs to give her husband


a medical report because of their blanket acceptance of these


benefits test did not help. view was that very understanding of


how I was feeling, but a very careful to say the benefits system,


we cannot afford the benefits system, the Government, and, you


know, people have to be assessed, and if you are assessed as fit, you


are fit. And now Westminster's Public Audit Committee says the


Department of Work and Pensions is making too many mistakes. Do you


know of those who are turned down for Employment? 40% of them appeal


and 38 % of them win that appeal. There is something wrong with an


assessment that throws up and many appeals in the first place but that


many successful appeals is a particular worry. The UK Government


insists the benefits assessment process is improving. He says the


previous system abandoned's people to a life on benefits. Now they are


checking to see if they could go back to work with the right support.


The system was not as effective as it could be. We are reforming it to


make sure we get more decisions right first time. So far, 17,000


Scots have been reclassified as fit for work by Government assessors,


ATOS. Those who feel they have been badly treated say they are just


calling for a fairer system. More on this now. I am joined by


the Labour MP, and Beck, chair of the House of Commons working


pension select committee. -- Anne The committee have criticised ATOS.


But it you is your government that awarded it and then re warded it in


2005. The law process dead start under the last Labour government,


but I would like to hope that were we still in power we would have


been listening to the deluge of criticism that has been coming down


on this process under way it has been working in practice. We only


introduced it far new claimants. But what we are seeing is those who


were previously on incapacity benefit I now been moved on to the


new benefit system, and are having to go through the assessment


process. The system inherited from Labour, says the minister, was not


fit for purpose. Independent reviews have found that there is


not much need for a fireman ATOS. - - for a reform in ATOS. The way


that it was designed was not fit for purpose. But it was then


incumbent on the government to change the way that it was actually


being delivered. There is nothing to stop me doing that. There's


nothing to stop us looking again at the contract. The important thing


is to look at what is going wrong and what needs to be changed in


order to make these assessments. Most people would agree that


somebody has to be assessed if they are going to get benefits, but to


make those assessments much more accurate, much more softer, in a


way, in the way that it reflects the people and their illnesses that


they have and gets the positions right. The thing that is most


heartbreaking for people is that when these decisions are wrong and


when they go to the appeal they are not given any extra evidence, the


decisions are being overturned at us on the same evidence. What is


the problem with ATOS? Why have we seen so many appeals? There are a


couple of reasons. One is that ATOS as a company decided to use a


computer program to work out their assessments. That means that it has


become very mechanistic. It was always a functional test, many who


will think it is a medical test, it is not. And so, the computer tends


to see everything very much in black and white. The Public


Accounts Committee said that there was not any kind of intent to try


to get other companies who would be interested in this he would deliver


it quite differently, in a more face-to-face interview process.


That is one of the things that has been going wrong. Like me pick up


on that point. That is the trouble with ATOS. It is a monopoly


supplier. That is it. There are companies throughout the world to


do this sort of thing for other governments, but they do not do it


in the same way. They have their own system, its computer system,


and that is the problem. The reason the numbers are going up is because


the government has speeded up the roll-out, or what they call the


migration, from those that are presently on capacity benefit.


Putting them on to employments support allowance. There are 11,000


letters a week going out to people who are presently on incapacity


benefit and they are being asked to go when it and to fill in a form


and then going for an assessment. Because these are people who have


already had benefits, when the lose it, inevitably they are going to


appeal. That is where the numbers of Appeal have gone up. But the


decisions have also sometimes been wrong in the first place as well.


Thank you for joining us. A ban on tobacco displays in supermarkets


comes into effect at the end of April, but how far will it go


towards persuading smokers to kick the habit? Anti-smoking campaigners


say that more radical measures are needed if Scotland is to become


smoke-free. With the Scottish Government to reveal its new


strategy in the next few weeks, we look at what options are.


The dangers of smoking have been known since the late 1950s, but it


was only in 2006 that Scotland became the first part of the UK to


ban smoking in enclosed public places and it has been seen as a


success, with a 17 % drop in heart attacks in the first year, a


reduction in sheltered asthma, and have fallen premature births. But


while the number of people lighting up has fallen, smoking still leads


to 13,500 deaths in Scotland each year. That is one in five. It is


also responsible for a 33,500 hospital measures. -- hospital


admissions. At the end of April, Scotland will follow England's


example of introducing restrictions on tobacco displays in bigger


stores. Vending machine at the sales were also be illegal. But


campaigners say that more needs to be done. We need to Pate smoking


out of fashion. We need to have standardised packaging for tobacco


products. Mistily a plot that in. It is about getting rid of the


glitzy in injury that gets young people addicted. -- in injury.


There are some smokers who do want to quit, but there are many smokers


to enjoy it and have no intention of giving up and the more that you


try to bully them, the more they are likely to take their hilts in -


- dig their heels in. This advert is currently being shown in Wales.


It is already illegal in South Africa and some States and Canada,


Australia and the US to smoke in your car. Could it be on the cards


here? The Public Health Minister is not giving much away. It is


important to look at the whole range of measures that we can take


forward that can help to contribute to reducing smoking in Scotland.


Trying to reduce the number of young people that are attracted to


it, we have had some success with that.


The smoking ban has become an accepted part of everyday life in


Scotland but will further Tobacco's restrictions be as welcome and


effective? We are joined by Professor Gerard


Hastings from Centre for Tobacco Control Research and the Institute


of Social Marketing at Stirling University. Thank you for joining


us. Can you enlighten us as to what the Scottish Government's tobacco


control strategy might be? The minister was quite tight lipped.


is his strategy, so why do not blame him. Listening to his report,


it is a very good news story for Scotland. We have made enormous


progress over the last few generations year. The majority of


people were smoking in Scotland and it was taken for granted as a norm,


now it is less than a quarter. What we do need to focus on his young


people. Adults do not take up smoking. When we talk about adults


enjoying their smoking, it ignores the fact that most adults regret


ever starting, but also that it is a paediatric phenomenon. Only 5% of


the population smoking weed been then -- would be the ideal. Are you


wanting to follow the Australian model and have some gruesome


pictures on the carton? packaging should be seen not as a


marketing tool of the industry. It is a multinational industry that is


exploiting young people and kills one in two of its loyalist


customers. Scotland should be rightly angry. It is then he should


be in our minds as we move forward on this issue. It is not just a


matter of me wanting to change things for the children, we all


want that. Even the very few people that are delighted to be smokers,


even the would never want children to take up this habit. The pro-


smoking lobby, are pro-choice lobby say that the rate of smoking has


not fallen that dramatically since evolutions -- since devolution. But


tobacco control has gone up 15 fold. It is not as much of this excess it


were trying to portray it be? are not thinking it through. Think


about the item that he had been the date lay before her about


incapacity benefit. How many of those people have got their to


tobacco-related illness. It teaches people faster, it can take ten


years of your life in every sense. -- it ages people faster. My


argument could not be fiscal, it is moral. It is simply wrong that


children are pooled into an industry that makes them addicted


and then kills them. How much is smoking still linked to


deprivation? Enormously. If you go to theirs then you will find barely


any smokers. If you go to Drumchapel you will find large


sectors of the population smoking. It is enormously so, it is a very


MSPs approved the annual budget of �28 billion for 2013-14. Last


minute revisions including more money for colleges and the housing


budget. This Government is investing to deliver for Scotland's


young people in the future. Spontaneous applause across this


part of the chamber for a �24 million cut to colleges. The Royal


Bank of Scotland has agreed to pay nearly �400 million in fines. It is


after the rigging of interest rates in the Libor scandal.


In Westminster MPs approved a marriage. Scotland has published a


similar bill which is up for consultation at the moment.


And a new Scotland football manager in the end against Estonia.


Do you think the politicians involved in the referendum debate


will like that? Let's take a look at the big


political events coming up in The Week Ahead.


We have an academic double act this week, with Professor Murray Pittock,


vice-principal of does the University, and Professor Adam


Tomkins, a constitutional expert and Professor of Public Law at the


same institution. Good afternoon. Murray, you have your reading


glasses ready this week for these reports coming out? I will get


through as many as I can. I am sure I will not get through them as fast


as the politicians, but it is important. We have you writing this


week saying it we will have your "yes" vote in the independence


referendum. One of the reports coming out in the Sunday Herald is


up at the Fiscal Commission and on the front page we have the pound


logo. Do you think this is something that the Scottish


Government will be able to pursue? It is quite a controversial issue,


trying to keep the pound but yet separating from the UK. In some


ways, we see this as rather too much of a controversial issue, and


to take our closest neighbour, in some ways, Ireland, Ireland left


the Stirling system on 30th March 1979, about 57 years after the


Irish Free State was formed. The idea that countries outside the


estate whose currency... A currency from the state which is not their


own state is not unknown in the present world from sovereign states


in South America to the US dollar. But in terms of Stirling, the Irish


example, though it is a very different world, clearly shows


there is no reason why an independent Scotland should not


keep the pound. Adam, you have been published as well this week,


looking at the road map for the independence referendum. First,


what is your position on the currency, what the Fiscal


Commission are coming out with tomorrow? I do not know, I will


read it tomorrow if I get time, thaw as soon as I can there afters.


I agree with Murray. I see no reason why England and Scotland


cannot keep the pound, but it is one of those very many issues.


There are hundreds, probably thousands, that will need to be


carefully, Felipe negotiated, between an independent Scotland,


the rest are beat UK and the rest of the world in the event that


Scotland does boat for independence in 2014. We have not been told the


date but that is when we assume it is. It is one of those issues that


will have to be talked about extremely carefully. Murray, there


is a feeling people are looking for sub-standard facts at the moment.


Michael Moore earlier taught about the UK Government report. This


claim baby talk about, Scotland having to reapply for EU membership.


I will wait and see the report. One of the ways to get fat, and I do


not want to undermine our own position here, one of the ways to


get facts, he is when experts used to reflect on the things cautiously


and carefully, it is quite possible and they could do this all the way


to polling day and Deanne, I have set some experts battling away at


each of in opposition, because that is the nature of political and


legal expertise, it is a practice pitch, and it is about conflict


rather than conflict resolution. We need to have facts and there are a


lot of facts out there. They could be more. They could be stronger


research about the nature of comparative transitions. That is an


important thing to get in place over the next 18 months. Whether


they could be bat the Government has so they could be a transition


to independence in 16 months. That is viewed as controversial. Third


parties could put a spoke in the wheels there but we have to spot --


start somewhere. Adam, you are a constitutional expert. What do you


think about the Government coming out with their expert tomorrow? How


do you think this place out with voters? My expert versus your


expert. I did not see any expert in the Scottish Government report this


week. What we will see on Monday is a full legal analysis of where we


are in terms of Scotland's institution now and where we would


be in the future if Scotland votes for independence. In this respect,


the UK Government is doing exactly what it was told to do by the


Electoral Commission in its report a couple of weeks ago where except


those governments should come together and talk as clearly as


they possibly can about the consequences of the decision that


we in Scotland will take in 2014, and whether we vote "yes" or "no".


What will happen next. And the reason I was so angry at what the


Scottish Government published this week is because they might win, and


if they win, they are going to have to negotiate hard with the rest of


the UK and the rest of the EU. If the 16th flimsy pages they


published this week is the best they can do, we are in real, deep


trouble. Would you regard it as 16 flimsy pages, Murray? It is a


statement of the Scottish Government's position. Their


difficulty is this, that the more of their hand they show early, the


more it will be attacked, and pigs and misrepresented, so although I


understand Adam's anxiety that the negotiations, I doubt that that


will be the case. What I do see is that there is quite a lot of


political... Quite a lot of political ill-will and name-calling


as there has been throughout my entire lifetime about nationalism,


and it is important to ensure that you do not put everything out on


the table so it can depicts part of by better resourced governments,


better resourced media throughout the UK long before the vote.


other issue. The front page, SNP asleep on drop over horse meat.


Let's not get into the issues. But a fairly gruesome topic for the


public. I am sure it is a rather political topic for the public. But


I see everything through the eyes of a constitutional lawyer. Food


Standards is an issue whinges the shared responsibility of the UK and


Scottish governments. -- the witches. This is an instance where


we are better together. The food goes across our border. And this is


an instance where, if Richard Lochhead had not co-operated with


the UK Government, we would have had the press saying that the SNP


get nothing for consumers in Carlisle. Thank you buys very much.


Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser.

Download Subtitles