27/01/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


27/01/2013

Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr with the latest political news and interviews with the Europe Minister David Lidington and the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves.


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Transcript


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Good afternoon. Welcome to the programme. The coalition presides

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over the weakest recovery for generations. Labour's lead God the

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Prime Minister wants to negotiate a Is the plan achievable? Would we be

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better or worse off outside the EU? The two sides go head-to-head.

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In Scotland: As the Europe debate picks up speed, the Deputy First

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Minister rights to all the EU Foreign Ministers to set out the

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2166 seconds

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Next time round, they are far more likely to be talking in the same

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line as the UK. Britain has assimilated more than 3,000 EU

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directives and regulations every year. How many have been repealed?

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Give me an example of something having been returned. I accept

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there is a lot of body of legislation. So the answer is

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nothing? I do not know. I am dealing with financial services.

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knew against repatriation of power? I am not against it, but if EU

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choose not to have something in a given area, it is repatriated for

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everyone. If we talk about it in those terms we stand much more

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chance than if we want to grab it back and never mind what happens to

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other people's. If repatriation is not substantial,

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you will campaign to leave in the referendum? Yes. Do you think you

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will carry the bulk of the Tory party with you on that view?

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think so. That is the current opinion-poll evidence of the

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members of the MPs, but I do not think that is the key question. It

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is not whether the key Tory party votes to accept this. The 14 years

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in the Tory party tells me anything, if people are wiser than their

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leaders, the problem we have left is leaving it to ministers. I

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believe my trust in the British Welcome to the programme. The rally

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sets off, destination Monte Carlo, but the big political question is,

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are the accelerating towards the Continent or reversing from it?

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Who is in the navigation seat? Depression and anxiety are

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illnesses that can affect everyone. One in four Scots are impacted with

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mental health issues. Are there enough services to support this

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condition? Thank you for joining us. Nicola

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Sturgeon has written to EU foreign ministers to assure them of

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Scotland's commitment to the European Union, putting distance

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between Holyrood and Westminster's position on Brussels. But it is the

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Scottish voters who will be in the driving seat.

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These old cars are being driven from Glasgow across Europe this

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weekend, to compete in the Monte Carlo Rally. As they drive from

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country to country, Scotland's future relationship with the

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European Union will probably not be uppermost in the minds of their

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drivers. It was not preoccupying those who turned out to see them

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more. It does not keep me awake at night. We are better in than out.

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wonder where we are going on Scotland.

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What is less clear is who voters' trust most to look after Scotland's

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best interests in Europe. Is it Alex Salmond, who wants you to vote

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for independence, and then let him negotiate with the European Union

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for Scotland to continue to participate but as a full member

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state? Or was it David Cameron, who thinks he can cut a better deal for

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Britain in the European Union and will then give they say on whether

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Too many fellow Scots whose values we share simply do not trust her

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motives. When it comes to general elections, they see us as London's

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Party in Scotland, not Scotland representatives in London. When it

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comes to elections in the Scottish parliament, they want to vote for a

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party that will put Scotland first. Too few truly believe that boss. I

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want to see us as the party off we can and we will. If voters do not

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trust the party generally, made that also applied to the

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referendum? -- apply to the referendum about the European

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Union? People have to have their say. In terms of the Scottish

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Conservatives, we are fully involved in the Better Together

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Campaign, and we want people to have a say.

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David Cameron's promise about to vote on the EU is designed to

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appease the Euro-sceptics on his backbenches and to appeal to Tory

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voters who have drifted away to the UK Independence Party. That wants

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us to leave the EU. In Scotland, the promise of another referendum

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quickly change the dynamic of the independence debate. Alex Salmond

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and David Cameron are like peas in a pod. There will always put their

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party's interest before the interests of the people of the

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country. It does not come from this Parliament, this Government or the

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people from Scotland, it comes from the banks of the Thames, and a Tory

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coalition dull Dutch government are heading towards the exit door, and

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a Labour opposition has still have to clarify what they think about it.

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The Deputy First Minister took this message to Dublin, where she told a

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business confident -- conference that a EU referendum would create

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uncertainty. An Irish government minister suggested Scottish

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independence might create uncertainty about Scotland's place

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in the EU. It Scotland became independent, they would have to

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apply for membership, which can be a lengthy process.

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On the road to the independence referendum, there will be many

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voices from a -- across Europe. In the end it is the Scottish voters

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in the driving seat, and their choices at the ballot box that will

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determine the Dow -- direction Scotland will head.

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Joining me is the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and external affairs,

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the SNP's Fiona Hyslop. We are hearing that Nicola Sturgeon is

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writing to European foreign ministers today to brandish her

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pro-European credentials, compared to the Prime Minister. Is the

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supply for help, after the snub from the European Commission for

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talks, and the UK -- UK government said they would not take part in

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discussions. No, it is clear we need to make sure that European

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capitals know that the Scottish government's position is we are

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pure -- pro European. We remain in continuous discussions and part of

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the European Union. I am pleased the Irish Minister has confirmed

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that she also sees a continuing membership for Scotland, and the

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negotiations that would take place would take place between 2014 and

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2016, in a way that she thinks is logical under way forward. It is

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distinct from David Cameron, who wants to head out of Europe or

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threatened to head out. That is not good for Scotland, and if we want

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jobs and services predicted, -- protected, there is a clear

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distinction that the unfortunate position as those who are against

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:45:56.:45:56.

independence would prefer to gamble on a Tory future. Where did she say

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in the e-mail to Nicola Sturgeon that Scotland would not have to

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apply for membership? She twice said that to the BBC in the clip

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that it does not. It is unfortunate that the BBC has misconstrued her

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position, and it is helpful that she has recognised the importance

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that Scotland would have across Europe. The the fact we're lying on

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-- relying on a Conservative government to allow them to

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continue to decide for Scotland, I do not think that is acceptable. I

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think Europe wants to see collective reform, and the idea of

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unilateral reform put forward by David Cameron is not acceptable.

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When the Crighton said that Scotland would have to apply for

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membership, and we have that full club so you can hear it.

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In Scotland we are dominated by the constitutional debate. One of the

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issues is, with an independent Scotland be welcome by his EU

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neighbours? Welcome, by all means, but there are legal constraints. It

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Scotland were to become independent, they would have to apply for

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membership, which can be a lengthy process. Even with the very

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:47:41.:47:41.

advanced and well-integrated countries like Iceland, it still

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has a task in terms of transforming his regulation and fitting end to

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the European requirements, and that would be the case for Scotland as

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well, I think. There would be an application and negotiation process

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as it is for any country. Would that be fairly smooth or difficult?

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I do not know. It is unprecedented. It hasn't happened before. I do not

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see why it would be a terribly complex process, but negotiations

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for membership are all was painstaking, and complex, but I do

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not see why it would be difficult. I think it would lead to the

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accession at the end of the process, but it would take time. It is very

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much up to the people of Scotland to what they choose to do. So she

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said Scotland would have to apply for membership, do you agree with

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what she is saying? I agree with the mill where she says there is no

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situation where Scotland would leave the European Union, which is

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also the point she makes about Scotland's position being unique.

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And this means the position of Scotland would have to be developed

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in terms of the terms and conditions required, but also the

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Irish minister in her e-mail said she recognises the period of the

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"yes" vote in 2014, and a period where these terms and conditions in

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relation to membership, and the technical details would take until

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2016. We have a member -- been a member for many years, so we are

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quite distinct, but the difference is her vision is for corporation

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with her European partners. -- our vision for corporation.

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She says Scotland would have to apply, but Nicola Sturgeon says

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that is not the case, but there is no political difference between

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Ireland and Scotland. There is the period between a "yes" vote and

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independence, when the terms in relation to a membership and

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compliance would be decided, I have every confidence we would be

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welcomed. The Irish Minister has said that. Many ministers I meet

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you also say that. The biggest risk to Scotland and its future is

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relying on a Conservative government, and that is where the

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Labour Party is. We have to give the people of Scotland the decision

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and leadership. How important is the European debate in Scotland for

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the "yes" campaign? It is important in relation to the economy, the

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environment, and in terms of workers' rights, we are already

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seeing the Conservative government wanting to undermine using the

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welfare system, those in low-paid work, relying on benefits. Then

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there is an attack on employment protection that David Cameron wants

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to see, these are relevant. These are not abstract issues, they

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affect people a free day. The future of energy policy, a Scot and

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has a great deal to contribute, I think was a very important economic

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issue, not just political. Thank you very much.

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In the under studio is the former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer

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and leader of the pro-union together is Better campaign,

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Alistair Darling. -- Better Together Campaign. Do you agree

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with Ed Miliband's position on the EU in/out referendum? If you look

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at the position David Cameron set out last week, it was driven by the

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needs of the Conservative Party, internally and the threat of UKIP.

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It was not a position he worked out of a matter of principle. As far as

:52:15.:52:22.

Scotland is concerned,... Can I interrupt you, I want to ask about

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which position you are talking about that Mr Miliband takes. Isn't

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it one that he does not want a referendum -- is it one that he

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wants a referendum, or does he not need a referendum if powers are

:52:38.:52:47.

going back to Brussels? I do not speak for the Labour Party any more,

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but I have nothing to fear of referendums. If you are going to

:52:51.:53:01.
:53:01.:53:18.

There is a lot of uncertainty. We will not have this referendum for a

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few years. I said before, I thought a two year delay for the referendum

:53:23.:53:29.

will create uncertainty, and the four years uncertainty aggravates

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the position regarding the EU fault. The sound went down while Fiona was

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speaking, but in relation to Scotland and Europe, Nicola

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Sturgeon wrote a letter to other European governments in which she

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set out the virtues of the European Union, the fact we are closer trade

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and co-operation, and I agree with most of that. However, if it is

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right for Europe because it is a big single market, it must be right

:54:01.:54:07.

in bucketloads so far as the rest of the UK is concerned, we sell

:54:07.:54:10.

four times as much to England as we do to Europe. The logic must be

:54:10.:54:14.

that Scottish is better and stronger together in the United

:54:15.:54:19.

Kingdom, as I believe the United Kingdom is better and stronger

:54:19.:54:27.

together as part of the European What do your think your position

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would be, particularly if the UK has to renegotiate substantially

:54:31.:54:36.

with Brussels if there is a closer fiscal union? I don't speak to the

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Labour Party. I am not drawing up the manifesto for 2015 or any other

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time. My view is this; by 2015, just under two years' time, it will

:54:47.:54:51.

be clearer what the position is, with regards to the eurozone and

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whether or not that means the fundamental treaties need to be

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looked at again. If the UK is going to seek a better deal or the

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repatriation of powers, you is to understand, so will other countries

:55:06.:55:12.

want to do the same thing. The other thing is you have to build

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alliances with the non-Euro- countries. Holding a gun to

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people's heads does not make sense. Looking at better together new you

:55:25.:55:29.

are split over a key issue when you are meant to be campaigning

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together. We are not. Our campaign was set up to convince people that

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Scotland is better and stronger together within the United Kingdom.

:55:36.:55:41.

Nothing has changed as a result of last week. We are all agreed that

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Scotland would have to renegotiate terms within Europe. You just heard

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the Irish minister say that at some length, so has everyone else.

:55:51.:55:55.

There's going to be uncertainty there. I have never argued that the

:55:55.:56:00.

rest of Europe would not want us in, but the terms and conditions,

:56:00.:56:07.

whether on the euro, the passport controls - there would have to be a

:56:07.:56:10.

negotiation. Now nothing that David Cameron said last week has changed

:56:10.:56:13.

that one jot and the nationalists are in that position. This is only

:56:13.:56:17.

a year ago they were arguing they had a legal opinion which said the

:56:17.:56:23.

opposite. It turned out to be a complete fiction. Their credibility

:56:23.:56:27.

on that is pretty near nil. Yes, Europe is important. If they are

:56:27.:56:31.

right about staying in Europe, they must be right about staying in the

:56:31.:56:34.

single market we are already in, which is called the United Kingdom.

:56:34.:56:38.

I want to ask you about the economy, as a former Chancellor. In your

:56:38.:56:43.

opinion, are we approaching a triple dip recession? There is now

:56:43.:56:47.

a risk that will happen. The economy was growing in 2010, and

:56:47.:56:53.

this Government killed that off and they did it by trashing people's

:56:53.:56:58.

confidence with comparisons about what is going on in Europe. They

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embarked on a policy of austerity. The policy has failed. It's not

:57:04.:57:08.

going anywhere. We will pay a very, very heavy price for it. It is time

:57:08.:57:12.

they started thinking closely about what they are doing. If we carry on

:57:13.:57:17.

like this we could have a lost generation, as we had in Japan,

:57:17.:57:20.

where people will be denied opportunities and have lower

:57:20.:57:24.

standards of living. That is intolerable.

:57:24.:57:29.

Thank you very much for joining us. Turning to coalition partners at

:57:29.:57:33.

Westminster, we have Rory Stewart t Conservative MP for Penrith and the

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Borders, who sits in the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. In our

:57:38.:57:43.

Aberdeen studio is Sir Malcolm Bruce, the former leader of the

:57:43.:57:47.

Scottish Liberal Democrats. Good afternoon to you both. First to you,

:57:47.:57:52.

Rory Stewart, we are hearing about the EU, in-out referendum there.

:57:52.:57:56.

Where do you stand on it? Like David Cameron I believe the current

:57:56.:58:01.

situation is not acceptable. We have to push for a new relationship

:58:01.:58:05.

with Europe. Otherwise Britain will be in an isolated Uncomfortable

:58:05.:58:09.

situation. If we cannot get that, I believe we should vote to leave. It

:58:09.:58:14.

is not up to me. It is not up to David Cameron. It is up to the

:58:14.:58:18.

British people. Sir Malcolm, you are listening to that. How on earth

:58:18.:58:22.

can you remain in this coalition when it is so divided over such a

:58:22.:58:27.

key point? Nick Clegg was saying this referendum is not in the

:58:27.:58:29.

national interest. How can you remain in the coalition?

:58:29.:58:32.

Conservative Party are talking about what they would do if they

:58:32.:58:36.

were to win the next election, which they are increasingly unable

:58:36.:58:41.

to do. There'll be nothing more isolating for Britain than to be

:58:42.:58:45.

outside the United Kingdom, outside the European Union. I am a former

:58:45.:58:48.

reformer of the European Union. There is a lot we should and can do.

:58:48.:58:52.

The idea of demanding it and then if we don't get it leaving, puts us

:58:52.:58:57.

in a weaker position than we would otherwise be. I think the problem

:58:57.:59:01.

for David Cameron is that he's really addressing his own party

:59:01.:59:05.

rather than the interests of the country. It's not consistent, in my

:59:05.:59:08.

view, to be passionately in favour of keeping the United Kingdom

:59:08.:59:12.

together and arguing that Scotland should stay in the United Kingdom,

:59:12.:59:14.

whilst arguing that Britain should leave the European Union. The

:59:14.:59:21.

argument is the same in both cases. Rory Stewart, from your Lib Dem

:59:21.:59:28.

colleague there, putting party interests there. He is a

:59:28.:59:31.

distinguished man drawing the comparison. The United Kingdom is a

:59:31.:59:36.

country with strong historical connections between what was

:59:36.:59:39.

originally the kingdom of Scotland and England. The European Union is

:59:39.:59:43.

not a country. It is a block with any number of different languages

:59:43.:59:46.

and cultures within it. It is daft to say the United Kingdom is the

:59:46.:59:50.

same as the European Union and the issues which affect one are the

:59:50.:59:57.

same as those which affect the other. If you pick up on that point.

:59:57.:00:00.

We have a single market in the United Kingdom. We have a single

:00:00.:00:03.

market in the European Union, which abgtkhully Britain did much to help

:00:03.:00:07.

to -- actually Britain did much to help to shape. Just as I argue it

:00:07.:00:11.

is the UK and Scotland's interest to stay together because they have

:00:11.:00:14.

so much in common and a common open market, what we have developed in

:00:14.:00:18.

Europe is a similar open market and one that Britain needs to be part

:00:18.:00:24.

of. There is a real dainger in the -- dainger in the course that the

:00:24.:00:29.

Prime Minister has set, he has indicated that, but then found his

:00:29.:00:33.

party does not support him and possibly the country does not

:00:33.:00:36.

support him, without a clear indication of where we finish up if

:00:36.:00:40.

we are outside Europe. There is no other organisation we can usefully

:00:40.:00:44.

join. We are just left on the margins. We are talking there also

:00:44.:00:48.

with Alistair Darling there and the Better Together Campaign. What the

:00:48.:00:54.

Prime Minister is proposing has blown together - the campaign, on

:00:54.:00:59.

two issues, causing uncertainty and criticising nationalists for

:00:59.:01:04.

waiting a long time for this referendum. This one will not come

:01:04.:01:06.

until 2017. I believe you will see the Labour Party position move

:01:06.:01:11.

quickly. You can see it moving already. It is difficult. We found

:01:11.:01:15.

the same in Scotland and we will with the European Union. It is

:01:15.:01:18.

difficult to fight against a referendum N the end this is about

:01:18.:01:22.

the people. It is about what kind of country you want to live in and

:01:22.:01:28.

giving people a choice over their sovereignty. Alistair Darling will

:01:28.:01:31.

find himself isolated within the Labour Party, increasingly. It is

:01:31.:01:37.

difficult to say people should not be given a say. Nick Clegg wanted a

:01:37.:01:40.

referendum before the 2010 referendum, but now he does not

:01:40.:01:46.

want one and the treaty will be renegotiated. Probably we do need a

:01:46.:01:51.

referendum. Thafrpblgt is why we have introduce -- That is why we

:01:51.:01:54.

have introduced that for the circumstances for a referendum. If

:01:54.:01:59.

there is a transfer of power there should be a referendum F there is a

:01:59.:02:02.

referendum we will campaign and campaign for Britain to stay in. I

:02:02.:02:07.

have to say, if you look at it from the European perspective, they've

:02:07.:02:12.

had this declaration from David Cameron and they have had e-mails...

:02:12.:02:16.

Sorry, we have to leave it there. We are running out of time at the

:02:16.:02:19.

moment. Thank you very much for joining me.

:02:19.:02:24.

We are coming up to the news now. Here on Sunday Politics Scotland we

:02:24.:02:28.

will talk about mental illness after the latest update from the

:02:28.:02:38.
:02:38.:02:50.

In a moment we will look ahead to the big stories. A fire in a

:02:50.:02:55.

nightclub in Brazil has claimed 245 lives. It is thought the blaze

:02:55.:03:05.
:03:05.:03:14.

broke out in the packed club in the Santa Maria. The fire, officials

:03:14.:03:23.

say, spread within seconds. The result of a stage show gone wrong.

:03:23.:03:28.

Dozens of youngster rushed to escape. The first started, as we

:03:28.:03:33.

know, from some sort of firework display, even before the

:03:33.:03:36.

firefighters were there, people were helping, trying to make holes

:03:36.:03:44.

in the wall of this nightclub to help people get out. Santa Maria

:03:44.:03:47.

has a large student population. It is thought a party with 500 people

:03:47.:03:52.

was being held last night. The scale of this disaster has left

:03:52.:03:56.

Brazil stunned. Investigations are underway to discover the exact

:03:56.:04:00.

cause of the fire and how come so many came to die.

:04:00.:04:02.

The Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, says a referendum on member

:04:02.:04:06.

of the European Union is not in the national interest. Mr Clegg says

:04:06.:04:10.

David Cameron is risking growth and jobs by tying the country in knots

:04:10.:04:15.

in what he calls an arcane debate about the terms of Britain's

:04:15.:04:19.

membership. My priority will always remain a simple objective of

:04:19.:04:24.

building a stronger economy in a fairer society. That job is made

:04:24.:04:28.

more difficult if you have years and years tying yourself up in

:04:28.:04:33.

knots. Having debates about the terms of the membership of the

:04:33.:04:37.

United Kingdom before we get to a referendum. Tens of thousands of

:04:37.:04:43.

people are attending the funerals of 29 people killed in violence in

:04:43.:04:48.

Egypt yesterday, following a verdict in the football riots case.

:04:48.:04:52.

Clashes broke out between some mourners and the security forces.

:04:52.:04:57.

Yesterday's violence started after 21 people were sentenced to death

:04:57.:05:03.

for their part in rioting last year. French-led forces in Mali are

:05:03.:05:11.

closing in on Timbuktu. Malian and French forces seized

:05:11.:05:17.

another city in the north of the country yesterday.

:05:17.:05:22.

Andy Murray has failed to win his second Grand Slam tit until a row,

:05:23.:05:32.

losing to Novak Djokovic -- Grand Slam title in a row, lose -- losing

:05:32.:05:37.

to Novak Djokovic. Murray struggled with a hamstring injury and

:05:37.:05:42.

blistered feet. That is all the news now. More here on BBC One at

:05:42.:05:48.

6pm. Good afternoon. As you have just

:05:49.:05:52.

seen, disappointment for Andy Murray in Melbourne N a gruelling

:05:52.:05:57.

match lasting three hours and 40 minutes Novak Djokovic powered his

:05:57.:06:04.

way to win 3-1. Murray thanked his team and praised his opponent.

:06:04.:06:08.

would like to thank Djokovic. His record here is incredible. Very few

:06:08.:06:15.

people have managed to to what he's done here. She a very well-deserved

:06:15.:06:20.

champion. Well done again. Scotland star Leigh Griffiths is

:06:20.:06:26.

reported to have been arrested on suspicion of shoplifting.

:06:27.:06:31.

He was detained in an Edinburgh store yesterday. He said it was a

:06:31.:06:35.

big misunderstanding. An aid worker murdered in Pakistan last year is

:06:35.:06:38.

the winner of the Robert Burns Humanitarian Award.

:06:38.:06:42.

Khalil Dale, a former Dumfries nurse spent 30 years with the

:06:42.:06:45.

British Red Cross, helping vulnerable people in some of the

:06:45.:06:49.

most dangerous places in the world. A year ago he was abducted in

:06:49.:06:53.

Pakistan. His body was found three months later. Now the weather

:06:53.:06:56.

forecast. Good afternoon to you. We are in

:06:56.:07:00.

for a mixed afternoon as far as the for a mixed afternoon as far as the

:07:00.:07:04.

weather is concerned. We will continue to see blustery showers

:07:04.:07:08.

piling into western parts of the country, falling as snow on the

:07:08.:07:14.

hills. We should see some brighter interludes. Further east it remains

:07:14.:07:19.

largely dry with decent spells of brightness and sunshine. A fresh

:07:19.:07:23.

south-westerly wind for many parts of the country this afternoon. Gale

:07:23.:07:26.

force for the Western Isles at time and feeling milder than of late.

:07:26.:07:33.

That is all for now. Back to you. Thank you very much. MSPs were told

:07:33.:07:37.

this week that mental illness is one of the top public health

:07:37.:07:39.

one of the top public health challenges in Europe.

:07:39.:07:48.

The strategy started last year. One charity estimates the social and

:07:48.:07:57.

economic costs of mental illness are �11 million per year. One in

:07:57.:08:00.

four people in Scotland will experience a mental health problem

:08:00.:08:05.

every year. That can range from excessive stress, anxiety and

:08:05.:08:09.

depression, to schizophrenia and bipolar disorders. Although numbers

:08:09.:08:16.

have decreased over the past decade n2011, 772 people died by suicide

:08:16.:08:26.
:08:26.:08:27.

in Scotland. That is around two people per day. 10% of 5-15-year-

:08:27.:08:30.

olds suffer mental health problems when they are growing up. As Linda

:08:30.:08:35.

Fabiani pointed out during the debate, mental health illness has a

:08:35.:08:40.

big impact on someone's self-esteem. When you look at stigma and what

:08:40.:08:47.

goes along with it - the bullying, the humiliation - whether it's

:08:47.:08:53.

depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, whatever, whether it is a one-off,

:08:53.:08:59.

period oddic, these are the effects, marginallisation, that does

:08:59.:09:06.

terrible things to people. With me in the studio is Billy Watson t --

:09:06.:09:16.
:09:16.:09:29.

This is a huge issue in Scotland, and we do have a good legislator

:09:29.:09:36.

unsocial policy legacy in Scotland. The 2000 and the Mental Health Act

:09:36.:09:41.

is admired internationally. We now have a new Scottish strategy for

:09:41.:09:44.

mental health. We are at a moment in time where we can move forward

:09:44.:09:49.

on the issue, and I think the challenge for the Scottish

:09:49.:09:54.

government is to take this policy and strategy and translated and

:09:54.:09:58.

transact it into real meaningful services on the ground. --

:09:58.:10:07.

translator it. By December 2014, there is a target to wait no more

:10:07.:10:11.

than 18 weeks for treatment. What is the situation at the moment?

:10:11.:10:17.

is not great. It's still concerns organisations like ours that it has

:10:17.:10:21.

taken this sort of time to get a guaranteed to access to what is a

:10:21.:10:26.

vital treatment. We have had it and physical health for a long time,

:10:26.:10:31.

and it is two years away. But still feels like we have ground to make

:10:31.:10:35.

up. Audit Scotland did a report that showed support for

:10:35.:10:39.

psychological therapies depending on where you are in Scotland can

:10:39.:10:43.

take several years. We will be interested to see how the Scottish

:10:43.:10:49.

government gets from here to there in two years. The suicide

:10:49.:10:53.

statistics a minute ago were frightening. What more can be done

:10:54.:10:59.

at a community level to try to tackle it? The Community point was

:10:59.:11:05.

vital. Scotland has done some great work, suicide rates have come down.

:11:05.:11:10.

But two people a day is two too many. There are two things that can

:11:10.:11:15.

be done. More crisis intervention. Unfortunately when someone is in

:11:15.:11:20.

crisis, there is a run -- revolving door between accident and emergency,

:11:20.:11:28.

the police, and organisations like ours. The community response also

:11:28.:11:31.

needs to be better. People need to be able to speak to people in the

:11:31.:11:35.

same situation, supporting family members who are having suicidal

:11:35.:11:41.

thoughts. It is still one of the most difficult things to talk about.

:11:41.:11:44.

We have to leave it there, thank you very much.

:11:44.:11:48.

In a moment we will discuss the big events coming up next week, but

:11:48.:11:58.
:11:58.:12:02.

first, let us take a look back at This week the Scottish Government's

:12:03.:12:05.

281 �6 billion budget for the year ahead was approved in principle by

:12:05.:12:14.

Parliament. I believe the Budget provides a

:12:14.:12:17.

bold and ambitious programme of investment in people and

:12:17.:12:23.

infrastructure. Westminster MPs voted in favour of a proposal to

:12:23.:12:27.

lower the voting age in UK elections from 18-16. But the

:12:27.:12:32.

result is not binding, and the Conservatives are opposed to the

:12:32.:12:36.

moves. Unemployment in Scotland fell again.

:12:36.:12:42.

It fell by 14,000, bringing down the total number of people who are

:12:42.:12:46.

jobless to 207,000. It is time for a crackdown on people who abuse the

:12:46.:12:54.

use of disabled parking badges. The SNP MSP launched a bill aimed at

:12:54.:13:00.

giving officials greater powers to confiscate permits not be being

:13:00.:13:04.

used properly. Let us take a look forward to the

:13:04.:13:14.

next a than days. This week we have a splendid double

:13:14.:13:19.

act joining us in the Edinburgh studio. We have Iain Macwhirter,

:13:19.:13:23.

and in the studio we have Paul Gilbride from the Daily Express.

:13:24.:13:28.

Thank you for joining us. Thank you for hanging on after a Andy Murray.

:13:28.:13:37.

Let us look at one issue in their Sunday Herald. Nicola Sturgeon is

:13:37.:13:40.

writing to the EU foreign ministers brandishing her pro-European

:13:40.:13:45.

credentials, and we hear her talking about Lucinda Crichton as

:13:45.:13:51.

well. Yes, this whole debate about whether or not Scotland will be

:13:51.:13:56.

thrown out of Europe and would have to renegotiate away in is now

:13:56.:13:59.

completely irrelevant because it is abundantly clear that of Scotland

:13:59.:14:04.

votes to remain in the UK, we are just as likely to find ourselves

:14:04.:14:10.

thrown out of the EU as a result of forts taken by Conservatives in the

:14:10.:14:20.
:14:20.:14:21.

south of England, decisions taken by Westminster. Paul Gilbride, it

:14:21.:14:24.

was interesting what Fiona Hyslop was saying about Lucinda Crichton.

:14:24.:14:29.

She was anxious to make sure that nothing from Ireland said it would

:14:29.:14:34.

be a problem with Scotland applying or reapplying. The argument has

:14:34.:14:38.

moved on, I do not think there is any issue that an independent

:14:38.:14:41.

Scotland would be welcomed with open arms to Europe. The issue now

:14:41.:14:51.

is would it have to reapply? After what was said last week, sorry,

:14:51.:14:57.

before Christmas, Scotland would be an independent state. You're

:14:57.:15:02.

shaking your head. Let us pick up on match. Quite clearly we are just

:15:02.:15:05.

as likely to find ourselves out of Europe if Scotland remains within

:15:06.:15:12.

the UK as if Scotland were to become independent. Scotland has

:15:12.:15:17.

been under the protection of EU law for the last 20 years, and it would

:15:17.:15:24.

be unique. There is no mechanism in the EU for throwing people out to

:15:24.:15:31.

have been subject to the European law. It is redundant now. Let us

:15:31.:15:35.

put upon the point for the pro Unionist parties. Mr Cameron's

:15:35.:15:41.

statement on Wednesday threw them into disarray. Yes, but Labour will

:15:41.:15:47.

come round. They have to state a position before we get into the

:15:47.:15:51.

campaign for a referendum. The Better Together Campaign is not

:15:51.:15:55.

about whether we stay in Europe, it is about whether Scotland stays in

:15:55.:16:01.

the UK. It has a different campaign, a different argument. In the Sunday

:16:01.:16:08.

Herald, the yes campaign boss says there is no need to battle over the

:16:08.:16:13.

referendum question. Could there be a battle over the referendum

:16:13.:16:21.

question? There will be an argument on it. I do not know if the

:16:21.:16:23.

electoral commission will come up to any radical proposals to change

:16:23.:16:27.

in it, but there will be some suggestions for the wording changed.

:16:27.:16:31.

Blair Jenkins has suggested they have the final decision on this,

:16:31.:16:36.

and under section 30, it is clear they do not. The decision will be

:16:36.:16:40.

taken by the Scottish parliament. I think it would be almost

:16:40.:16:42.

inconceivable if the Scottish parliament would reject a

:16:42.:16:50.

reasonable proposal made. Blair Jenkins was saying that we should

:16:50.:16:57.

just accept what they say. I agree. The electoral commission is seen as

:16:57.:17:02.

impartial, independent, and a Scottish parliament can start

:17:02.:17:08.

arguing with their recommendations can do more damage than good. The

:17:08.:17:11.

question, do you agree Scotland should become an independent

:17:11.:17:20.

country, people have argued that is loaded, do you agree. We should get

:17:20.:17:28.

a question, should Scotland become independent? Something like that.

:17:28.:17:32.

The big issue will be the funding. Yes, there will be an argument over

:17:32.:17:36.

that as well because the yes campaign are fairly keen to keep a

:17:36.:17:42.

lid on the funding abyss. They are uneasy at the prospect of being up

:17:42.:17:49.

against all the Unionist parties. Also, there has been a backwash of

:17:49.:17:53.

debates taking place out of the border, and they want to keep tight

:17:53.:17:57.

control on it. There will be a relaxation of that. Do you think

:17:57.:18:03.

there will be a big fight over it? I think there could be. The funding

:18:03.:18:07.

from south of the border could flood in. That would be an unfair

:18:08.:18:14.

advantage for the pro-union campaign. Paul Gilbride and Iain

:18:14.:18:20.

Macwhirter, thank you for joining us. We are on a bit later than

:18:20.:18:25.

normal to a thank you for staying That is all from us this week. Just

:18:25.:18:28.

a reminder about a Newsnight Scotland special programme coming

:18:28.:18:33.

up tomorrow. An audience representing Scotland's ethnic

:18:33.:18:36.

minority communities will question leading politicians about issues

:18:36.:18:42.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr.


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