20/01/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with political news, interviews and debate. Andrew Neil looks at David Cameron's future Europe plans with Dr Liam Fox and Douglas Alexander.

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Good morning. We'll come to Sunday politics. The worst hostage crisis


in British history has ended with terrible loss of life in Algeria.


What happens now it as the desert wastes of North Africa become the


new front against terrorism. David Cameron's big speech on


Europe is delayed but it will be this week. Shadow Foreign Secretary


Douglas Alexander joins us close-up the Tories prepare to take on the


teachers in a row over performance- related pay.


We will it improve standards in schools? And on Sunday Politics


Scotland, more on the UK's relationship with Europe and what


it could mean for Scotland. We'll hear from the leader of UKIP,


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2113 seconds


Nigel Farage, and the SNP MEP Alyn Headteachers are professional


people who know how to conduct appraisals of up we will be able to


look at the overall effect. Does that mean you'll have to be nice to


the head teacher? OFSTED will look at how they conduct their


appraisals. The head teacher will be appraised by the governing body.


The head teachers seem to what this move, at the what this discretion


and think it will be better for teachers? Will be academies


arrangement, it has been possible for those schools to opt out. They


have not chosen to do it. Why not? They have it in the academies so


why are they not doing it? Most academies sign up to the document


and that document will be revised for September. What the Government


is trying to do is change the culture in our schools so that we


can raise the status of the teaching profession and reward the


best teachers. That is what happens to professionals outside of


teaching. Given that there is not much money in the Budget, does it


not follow that funds are limited so if you pay one person more, you


have to freeze me or pay me less? Head teachers have to marshal their


budgets very closely and they have to have the flexibility to reward


the best teachers with the best pay rises. That is he you raise


standards. You exist on national pay bargaining. This would be the


end of the national pay bargaining? What we have had is a review system


for quite a long time and I can assure you there is the lot a


bargaining at other levels. The National Union of Teachers are


concerned about a lot of things - the curriculum and the state of


education... Do you feel strongly enough about this to take


industrial action? What we want to do is make the case for saying that


one of the difficulties if you break up the system is that every


single school will have to pay -- have their own pay arrangements.


That means they could take it their eye off the importance aspects.


is about using the appraisal system to identify what training is needed


to nurture teachers. Teachers are brought on Andy extra flexibility


they have could lead to more Good morning and welcome to Sunday


Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme today. David Cameron will


now make his much trailed Europe Speech this week. So in theory, if


there's a Yes vote in the independence referendum, 2015 could


see a Scottish government negotiating to hug Brussels closer,


whilst a Westminster government could manoeuvre to pull in the


opposite direction. We'll be talking live to the UKIP Leader


Nigel Farage and the SNP MEP Alyn Smith.


It's been 20 years since the Czech and Slovak republics separated in


the velvet divorce. As time moves on, we ask if there are any big


lessons to be learned from how they negotiated their parting?


And as MSPs look at ways to further reduce teen pregnancy, we ask: why


it is so high in the country's It was the speech that never was.


But David Cameron still plans to set out his vision for the UK's


future in Europe this week. With plenty of red meat to satisfy Tory


Eurosceptics. There are two inter- twined strands to this debate, of


course, as we in Scotland debate independence in Europe. Raymond


Buchanan examines how Edinburgh and London view Brussels in their very


different ways. Will come to European politics. The


latest EU deal struck last Friday was a bit fish. It's a subject that


unites the SNP and the Scottish Conservatives. Both parties what


the way in which European deals like this are but radically changes


but on other issues they are not so united, not least in how close a


relationship Scotland and Britain should have led the EU. David


Cameron's cancelled speech was to argue for a new European deal


warning the institutions were increasingly isolating those they


were supposed to serve. The SNP's policy on Europe is becoming more


pragmatic. In terms of returning to the original narratives, we want


independence in Europe. This is very clear and quite distinct from


Westminster politics. It is very likely the SNP will decide this


could be one of their strong cards in the end and we shall see how


Europe plays into the debate. this week, the Deputy First


Minister Nicola Sturgeon will give a speech in Dublin outlining the


SNP's vision for an independent Scotland at the heart of Europe.


She will contrast the certainty of her party's commitment to the EU


with David Cameron's questioning of it. Which of these is closest to


the Scottish people? Evidence of Scottish attitudes has been a


little bit more pro EU than the UK as a whole but we have to presume


that Scotland is also predominantly in the eurosceptic mood. This may


question the SNP's strategy of being pro-European, not shared by


all nationalists. It is very ironic because the yes campaign is not


eurosceptic in itself. The official campaign echoes what the boss says


and if Alex Salmond says we are going to be in Europe, you'd better


like it! David Cameron is facing criticism from his own side not


least from former Deputy Prime Minister Michael Heseltine. He said


the strategy was ill-advised and potentially damaging to business.


European politics has often been messy but this week's fish stocks


shows a deal is often done. The question is what kind of


relationship Scotland and Britain what with the their neighbours. I'm


now joined from London by the leader of the UK Independence Party,


Nigel Farage, and from our Edinburgh studio by Alyn Smith, the


SNP MEP. Good morning to you both. First of


all, are you hoping to capitalise on David Cameron's European moves


here in Scotland? The whole Scottish debate has been very odd


because of this whole campaign the SNP have led for independence - you


cannot be independent if you also want to be part of the European


Union. The entire Scottish debates really is being redefined in the


radical way and I never thought I would say this but thank you, up


Jose Manuel Barroso, for making it absolutely clear that if Scotland


it believes the United Kingdom, she would have to sign a new treaty


that would commit her to signing up to the European currency. That has


made a bigger difference in the Scottish debate than anything that


has happened before it. Turning to the SNP, you're party attacks


eurosceptics. Perhaps in Scotland we few things a little differently.


You would only get about 3% of the vote here in Scotland. The reason


we have done poorly in Scotland is because the word, independence,


means something different in Scottish politics that has never


really been properly examined. Up people can see bracingly that what


is offered from Scotland is not independence but in fact at a


deeper dependency and the total loss of democracy to European


institutions. Recent opinion polls back this up. We are now in a


position where UKIP can make advance is in Scotland. They are


very clear statement there. You are hoping to capitalise on David


Cameron's moves but it seems you might be slightly expose their.


What does independence really mean? Coming in the taxi here this


morning I made a decision to be nice to Nigel and praise some of


the advances may have made an their concessions to wait disgruntled


Middle England. That is a clear statement but that is completely


fictitious. Jose Mau Mau of are also absolutely did not say there


would be a new treaty. He said if the state leaves that does not


negotiate that is a poor country. - - Jose Manuel Barroso. We have


allowed in Scotland for 30 years Scotland's interests to be decided


and represented by successive UK ministers who have neither shared


our beliefs nor articulated them well. It is no surprise we have not


done as well as we could have done by a representing ourselves. The


idea that Ireland caused much Denmark, Sweden, Finland are not


independent is absurd. I am glad to see EU kept getting asked some


difficult questions because they can pull together saw the empty --


sovereignty. In order to do that, we need to be at the table doing


some heavy lifting not posturing We are hearing it from the Deputy


First Minister that a UK pulls out of Europe it will have a chilling


effect. Better to be at the heart of it rather than on the sidelines,


as Alyn Smith put at. What would happen to common


fisheries is we would be like nor way. The management of those waters


would purely be the responsibility of elected Scottish officials. Tens


of thousands more jobs in at the Scottish fishing industry alone. I


do not buy the scare stories that if we are not part of the European


Union cannot go on doing business with them. Mercedes and Volkswagen


will want to keep selling of their cars in their United Kingdom


regardless of whether we are part of a political union or not. At the


heart of this is that you cannot be independent if 75% of your laws are


made by foreign institutions. Scotland would frankly be so small


it would be irrelevant. I want to pick up on that. You want


the Common Fisheries Policy and renegotiated. You are not happy


with the Common Agricultural Policy. You voted against with Labour. If


you are not as pro-European as you portray yourself.


With respect of the whole debate is wrong. It tries to drill things


down to black and white. The only question for the SNP is, what is in


the best interests of Scotland? That doesn't mean we think


everything in the European Union as super. There is lots of reform I


would happily see. Ruinous journeys to Strasbourg every month and good.


Lots of things need to be changed. But Nigel has made a point


repeatedly, unchallenged. I specifically sought membership of


the Switzerland - and more weight delegation of the parliament. We go


to them every six months. The Norwegians have just concluded a 20


you study about the functioning of the agreement. They concluded that


they are more integrated into law than the UK as by virtue of the


fact they are fully signed-up to be showing an accords, whereas they --


we are not. -- Schengen. Nigel is a world-class snake-oil salesman but


the people of Scotland are not buying it.


Lots of people in Scotland are saying that they SNP are not being


clear about what might happen with the currency and the poor controls.


-- border. We are being clear, if you take the


time to read what we are saying. What is a very clear is that the


European Union will not want to lose us. We do not want to leave.


We can be part of a coalition for change. The reason that Prime


Minister Cameron went to the Netherlands is because they are


currently reviewing their European Union arrangements. As is the case


in Finland. Other ways of doing this are possible.


I want to pick up. About border controls. You mentioned a possible


influx of Romanians and Bulgarians in at 2015. Do you appreciate that


the attitude in Scotland is a slightly different?


Yes, they have not had a massive migration that parts of England has.


My attitude towards foreign workers is that if they are skilled, great.


But we should not discriminate in favour of people from Europe and


the caressed the rest of the world. -- against. The anger in England,


which will spread to Scotland, is that next year we are letting in


two incredibly poor countries. Does people will be entitled to come not


just to work but to gain access to benefits immediately. This will


become an issue in British politics. What is the SNP policy?


I get uncomfortable hearing an Englishman talk about migration. It


jars with my world-view. The people of Scotland are best placed to


decide who lives here and watch our arrangement with the rest of Europe


should be. Freedom of movement is a crucial part of the European the


raison d'etre. To improve the fortunes of Romania and Bulgaria is


to trade with them and a single market and bring up living


standards towards European averages. Immigration is a different subject


in Scotland. Nigel, you want Scotland that they


cannot expect a blank cheque in the event of independence.


The fact is that the European Union imperialists are bringing in poorer


and poorer countries. The even want Turkey to join. There is unanimity


on that. You will become a net pay her into a system where you will


not be allowed to catch your own cash in your own waters. Frankly,


the European Union is good for professional career politicians but


not for ordinary people. A quick work?


I am not sure I am gay career professional politician. -- I am


not sure that I am a career politician. We have the ability to


work with our friends and colleagues to achieve better things


than the otherwise would. There is nothing wrong with membership that


would be put right by independence and speaking for ourselves. -- that


won't be put right. The Czech and Slovak republics


glided apart 20 years ago. For many it is an interesting comparison for


Scottish independence, if we reach that stage. We travelled east to


find out more. Pride is a city of a romance and a revolution. -- --


Prague. Protests here caused Czech communism to melt away. The country


split in two. Slovakia celebrated independence at the time. 20 years


later, in the capital, Bratislava, the Government say that statehood


has paid off. People said it was not the best


idea but right now we are doing very well, the Czech Republic are


doing very well and our friendship is better than ever.


Things were more sombre in the Czech Republic. Two decades later,


a mixed assessment is offered. Being a prime minister, it has some


advantages, but the international weight of both republics together


his lesser in -- in the former -- lesser than the former


Czechoslovakia. The history of post-communist


central Europe is dramatically different from the United Kingdom.


But both sides over the debate in Scottish independence attempted to


draw lessons from the so called a velvet divorce. The Sunday politics


has learned that Alex Salmond met the Czech Republic President at the


Olympics and John Swinney held informal talks with his counterpart


in crack. We do not know what was discussed. -- in Prague.


Emotions run high. Things happen which you do not foresee in advance.


I would say, be careful, go step by step.


In Czechoslovakia the step that they must was to consult the people


in a referendum. That is one aspect of the history here that will not


be repeated in Scotland. With me now is professor James


Mitchell, the head of the school of Government and Public Policy at


Strathclyde University. It is an important decision. How easy is it


to make this a Scottish comparison? There are certain things in the


Czechoslovak in situation which are relevant to our situation, but much


that is irrelevant. Clearly, Czechoslovakia was a very different


state. It was part of the Soviet system. That meant a different


economy to the type that we have in the United Kingdom and Scotland. In


that respect, given that economics is terribly important, it was


different. But on the other hand they had to feel their way. There


are no clear rules and regulations, it is about negotiation.


95% of negotiations taking place before Independence Day.


Yes. People ask, be negotiate before, or or only after everything


is complete? And there was still the glossy sheen so many years


after the symbolic independence. -- still negotiations. But I suspect


that a symbolic date would be agreed in the case of Scott and yet


there would still be much to be discussed. -- in the case of


Scotland. But this was a very grown-up way of


doing things. Yes, that is why they call it the


velvet divorce. At the moment there are all sorts of suggestions that


the UK Government would not be willing to operate in negotiations


but we can forget all that, it is just part of the campaign. If


independence was to be voted for, clearly it would be in the


interests of England to negotiate, because it needs to a good


neighbour. So there would be rational behaviour.


And political parties were packing up the similarities. The SNP said


that the Czechs and Slovaks are doing very well economic life.


Others said that exports went down. Both sides are keen to find the


similarities. Yes, they will pick and choose that


and anything else that suits their argument. But clearly it was far


less disruptive and took far less time. But over time what is


interesting is not that both countries have succeeded but are


coming back together and discussing things. At the end of last year


there was a joint cabinet meeting they between the two countries. So


it is conceivable you can vote for independence yet start to work


together closely again. They did not have a referendum. There are


perhaps still some regrets about that nowadays.


Yes, the evidence is that most people would not have voted for it


back then. But that today they are satisfied and there is a sense that


it has succeeded. I suspect that if it was put to referendum today, the


status quo would be accepted. What will be the SNP policy of


negotiating their way back into Europe?


Their position is probably a mistake I think. They adopted a


position insisting that Scotland would automatically have membership


of the E u. I can understand why. They want to the issue of people it


will not be disruptive. But I think it might be in the best interests


of Scotland to find themselves outside the European Union and then


they go seat to join. What we know is that once you become a member,


your position is weakened. You may go seating position. We can see


this with David Cameron, we conceded back in the 1970s, we have


accepted treaties, and now he is saying, we don't like this. That is


very difficult. The strongest position to be and as to be outside


at the outset, negotiating and. We have lots of bargaining chips.


What is the tenor of the debate? It is fairly acrimonious. I think


there is a lot more when you wants to the debate that we need to bring


out. -- nuance. We have claims and counter-claims and all sides need


to move towards more nuance and acceptance. Some of the claims and


counter-claims are absorbed. It could be very complex.


It will be complex. We're discussing British and Scottish


membership if they European Union. But I think it is better to talk in


terms of relationships. How do we relate to London government? How do


we relate to Brussels? Thank you for joining us. We are


The Prime Minister says that three British nationals that none to been


killed in the Algerian hostage crisis. Algeria says that its


special forces ended the stand-off yesterday because Islamist


militants were planning to blow up the site.


The four bases she is finally over. These pictures are believed to show


one of the first attempt Spike Algerian forces to end it. These


are glimpses of the ordeal suffered by the hostages. The pictures show


hostages surrendering before the kidnappers. The responsibility for


these deaths lies squarely with the terrorists. I would also say that


when you're dealing with a terrorist incident on this scale,


it is extremely difficult to respond and to get this right in


every respect. The crisis began early on Saturday morning. On


Thursday, an initial assault by Algerian forces killed militants


and captives of will other hostages managed to escape. With 11 gunmen


still holed up, the Algerian army stormed the complex again. The


special British consulate team has been sent to the rear to help the


survivors and repay create the dead. These pictures shown an Algerian


television are said to be part of the Arsenal used by militants and


Mrs apparently what one freed hostage sock. Another indication of


the horrors of the past few days. Tributes have been paid to four


climbers cut by an avalanche in the Scottish Highlands. ACE service was


held in their memory any church in Glencore.


Around 260 flights are to be cancelled at Heathrow and several


Eurostar trains between London, Brussels and Paris are also


cancelled. Ice and freezing temperatures are expected along


with a more snow for next week. It has been snowing heavily on


Cambridgeshire for the past hour. Snow and ice are causing problems


on and gritted roads and we're expecting significant snowfall here


as well as in the south-east, eastern parts, the North Midlands


and possibly north-east Wales. The advice for motorists is to check


forecasts before travelling and be aware of ACE conditions. You are


also advised to check you're transport services are running


before leave him home. That's all for now. More news on


BBC One at 6 o'clock. Good afternoon. Prayers were said


this morning for four climbers who were killed in an avalanche in


Glencoe yesterday. A man and a woman survived. The woman suffered


serious head injuries and is being treated in hospital in Fort William.


From Glencoe, here's our reporter Laura Bicker.


This is the south face where the six climbers were making their way


down when an avalanche struck. One of them is still seriously ill in


hospital, but sadly the bodies of four climbers were recovered by


medical rescue teams yesterday. Prayers are being said this


lunchtime in the local church for them and their families. It is


thought at this stage that a slab of snow simply went from underneath


the climbers and we got to know more about what happened and why


from the police this afternoon. It's unclear how many people with


Scottish connections are among those still missing or unaccounted


for after the Algerian hostage crisis. Prime Minister David


Cameron this morning confirmed that three British nationals are known


to have been killed in the incident. Three more are feared to have died,


and a UK resident has also been killed. Scottish families are


waiting to hear news of loved ones. My only real concern at the moment


is there are still families watching this programme desperately


waiting for news and the need to note that the British government's


officials are working hard to make sure that any information is the


lot of them as quickly as possible. A registration scheme for landlords


has resulted in 100 applicants being turned down over the past


five years, according to figures obtained by the Scottish


Conservatives. Landlords have contributed �11 million in fees,


while the Scottish Government paid more than �5 million of the start


up costs. Ministers say the scheme was designed to provide reassurance


to tenants rather than generate criminal prosecutions.


Onto the weather now. It will be another cold day, with widespread


another cold day, with widespread frosty conditions. Rather cloudy in


the east with further wintry showers. Drier and brighter in the


west and north with sunny spells, but the odd snow flurry here too.


It will be very cold this evening with some clear spells, but these


will be mostly in the northwest with eastern parts staying mostly


That's all for now, I'll hand you back to Andrew.


We heard about Glencore in the news. We can cross now to Aberdeen where


the First Minister joins us. First of all, your reaction to the


tragic news? It is an appalling and tragic day. Four people lost their


lives and a lady is being treated in hospital. She has been


transferred to the Southern General and hospital where she is


critically ill. It is the very serious is the that in tragic


circumstances. Our thoughts go out to the relatives who have lost


their lives. It is the time of year when incidents occur. Are we doing


enough to warn people about what can happen? The Scottish mountains


are breathtakingly beautiful but clearly a very dangerous place.


That is known and understood. We have made huge advances and


climbers and made in years are by and large much better prepared and


warned and equipped than before, but none the less, the Scottish


mountains in January it are not, and it was not the most difficult


conditions yesterday, but they are inherently dangerous places. Not


all fatalities on Scottish mountains are accidents are


incidents but none the less they are a dangerous place. It is the


sport and the recreation that gives untold pleasure to tens of


thousands of people, and the general story is that despite the


fact there are many more people going out walking in the Scottish


hills, because people were better prepared and more aware, the


general trend of accidents has been downwards over the last 20 years.


Every fatality is the tragedy and a very incident is deeply regret it.


If we turn our attention now to another tragic incident in Algeria.


Just to get some clarity. We heard that a number of Scottish residents


were held hostage and are now safe and well. Last night, the Scottish


government expressed concerns that Scots or people with Scottish


connections are believed to be among the dead or missing. D you


have any updates? The position is that two Scots, not necessarily a


resident but never the less Gotts, are believed to have been killed. -


- Scots. Police are now just onside in Algeria or an formal


identification has not been made but families were informed of the


maximum amount of information yesterday. Two Scottish family's


have been informed that their loved ones are believed to have been


killed. It Scots have returned from Algeria or under either with their


families or en route. If they're not with their families already,


the very soon will be. Eight families will be celebrating the


return of their loved ones but two Scots are believed to have been


killed. It is the developing situation and has been called the


new front in the war against terror. Would you be happy with the UK


tried to take part and helped with that? Obviously there has to be a


priority in this area that perhaps in the recent past has not been


given. The North African desk was recently demoted and the Foreign


Office but there is a realisation that Mrs Annie area we should be


given much more priority. In terms of assistance and and terms of the


safety of UK nationals, of course, all assistance should be given. If


you're asking my opinion on an armed intervention in North Africa,


I do not think it is being sought in Algeria and as you know, my


views on these matters is you need to be extraordinarily cautious


before you start talking about committing soldiers on the ground.


I do not think anyone is Seriously talking about that at the moment.


There is the major difference between seeing and the up as a


priority and not allowing it to disappear from the radar on


security grounds, and with putting troops into I'll GDR. Scottish


workers at real risk here, many from your constituency. Can we do


more to help protect Scots who going abroad and are living in


these areas? Apart from the general co-operation in terms of security


and in terms of the oil companies who are well versed in this. I have


been to a number of situations. Apart from taking these precautions,


for people and the oil industry, the understand that many oil


provinces have been unstable and dangerous places. That does not


mean you can neglect or be in any sense accepting of the risks people


take, but these risks are well known. The service companies are


aware of them. The maximum effort must be made to make security a


lair. In policy terms, what is clear from the tragedy and the it


rage of the last week is that any thought that North Africa or


Algeria is less of a potentially difficult and dangerous place


should be removed entirely. It should certainly be a foreign


policy priority and they would have thought that is pretty obvious from


the recent tragic a bits. -- events. Why are girls from deprived areas


of the country more likely to become teenage mums than those who


are better off? It's an issue being examined by a Health Committee at


Holyrood next month. They're calling for evidence on why


Scotland continues to have one of the highest levels of teen


pregnancy in Western Europe and whether we are doing enough to


bring about real and lasting change. Hayley Jarvis reports.


Katharine Mackie was 16 and living in Commander up when she fell


pregnant. When I first found out I was pregnant it was a big shock to


me. I really thought this was my life over. She is now 21 and has


the second daughter with her partner. Although she has no


regrets about having children at the young age, she feels not many


opportunities were open to have at that time. No employers were taking


me. I felt like I was getting nowhere. I was trying and getting


nothing. All I did was be at home and looked after her. What am I


going to do? While numbers have fallen in each of the past four


years, Scotland still has one of the highest rates of teenage


pregnancy in western Europe but figures vary greatly across the


country with figures showing women under 20 are living in poor areas


are 10 times more likely to have a child and twice as likely to have


an abortion than those who are better off. Why is there such a


link between poor Bertie and teenage pregnancy? It depends on


the options available to you. If you are looking at forfeiting ad to


be on a future career, that is going to influence your choices. If


what you see is an employment and a paucity of opportunity, this baby


means you have a role once you can become a mother and fit into the


community in which you live and be respected, that might be influenced


that choice. NHS Scotland are trying to reduce the number of


unplanned pregnancies through sex education and access to


contraception but see in deprived areas there are other issues.


of it is to do with aspiration and lifelong ambition. What are you


looking for a few do not have a job? It is about how people develop


relationships because we know some people are looking at developing a


bond with something they laugh because they did not necessarily


have that with their family. Study in Dundee which has the


highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the country found that a lack of


confidence could also be a reason. If people come from difficult


backgrounds, a lot needs to be done to make sure they have those skills


to mean they can say no. Up teenage pregnancy can have a long lasting


impact but Katharine who is now getting advice from the centre in


Glasgow, says it can be a positive thing. I was very young but some


people want that in their life and if they think they can handle it


and have that support, just to have that in your life. MSPs will begin


taking evidence next week on how to reduce pregnancies and to support


those who find themselves parents I am joined by the chief executive


of the charity, Children First, and a director of the Royal College of


midwives in Scotland. We have got some of the worst rates in western


Europe. Are you trying to identify some underlying causes?


It is complex. You have a batten young people at different issues.


There are those who are into binge drinking and substance abuse. We


often hear from young people who do not realise they are not in a fit


state. That is one group. Then there is another group, who are


possibly ambivalent or even want to have children, for all these


reasons mentioned, perhaps not seen a role for themselves, not having a


career to look for two, so having a baby is a way of saying, I am a


mother now, I have some body. But there are also lots of things about


young people who find it difficult to negotiate relationships, talk


about sex, about competence -- about contraception. It is not


enough for us to just say, this is a condom, this is how you use it.


It is about negotiating relationships. Are very complex


area. And there is an emotional


fulfilment that some youngsters might be looking for.


Undoubtedly. We must not judge. Not all young teenage mothers are a bad


mothers. We have to get that right. Lots of them are good mothers who


just need support. We have to look and ask, how can we help and


support these young people? There has been some work done by the


family and a spark a ship, looking at that. It is a very good in the


City. -- the family - nerves partnership. - a very good


development. They do not realise that this is a 24 hour commitment.


And the role of young fathers? Contrary to the stereotype many


want to get involved but do not know how to.


Absolutely. We were involved in research talking to young fathers.


Many of them wanted to have a role in their child's life. Not


necessarily marriage and happy ever after, but they wanted some role,


some level of responsibility. Yet they felt they were often sidelined.


It comes back to the whole thing about relationships. How do we


maximise people's involvement in relationships? Make sure that it


works? I'll be it they might not be living together.


You mentioned the family - nurse partnership.


That has been completely funded by the Scottish Government. All the


parties have an interest but this administration have really driven


the partnership. In Lothian we had the pilot. We absolutely involved


the young fathers. It is not about providing clinical careful stock


that is done by a midwife. This is about supporting parenting. --


clinical care. It will be rolled out elsewhere. We will see success,


although it is for a certain group of young ladies who are under 19


years of age. What is the key thing in reducing teenage pregnancies?


Making sure that what is talked about his health the relationship


young people are also not convinced about confidentiality and are


worried that any one they talk to will immediately talk to their


mothers. And the need to understand about, -- contraception. As a


country we have a long way to go when it comes to been honest and


talking about sex. How can we expect young people to deal with it


when they look at older people who are still embarrassed? Smaller


groups, not great big classes. That involves resources. And resources


are patchy across Scotland. We need to roll them out more consistently.


We will soon discuss the events of next week but let's look back at


Both the House of Commons and the House of Lords approved a section


30 order. Legal powers will pass to Holyrood to hold the independence


referendum. The Labour leader of Glasgow City


Council made a public apology after police reported him to the


Procurator Fiscal for an alleged indecency with another man. He


remains in post. A call has gone out for 1,500


volunteers to help out at the Glasgow Commonwealth Games.


And Gordon Strachan is settling into life as the new Scotland


football manager. I am very proud. My family are proud. My wife, my


mother, my grand children, children, friends.


And it snowed! I am joined by a trio of political


pundits. The Scottish Correspondent from the Guardian, the Spectator,


and in Dundee, the Scottish political editor of the Sun. We had


a European discussion at the top of the programme. What did you make of


the discussion between Nigel Farage and Alyn Smith?


Nigel Farage is a good walk on Act but Alyn Smith was much closer to


where the debate will be. The UK Independence Party poll only in the


tens of thousands at their best. So their position will not have


popular support of attraction here. Smith was right, this is more a


question of relationships within the European Union. I mentioned the


article in the Herald by the Deputy First Minister, quoting Nick Clegg.


Talking about the chilling effect that a European exit could mean.


Nigel Farage not getting much attraction here.


That is certainly the case. Nick Clegg and the nationalists making


the same argument. But it is the same argument by Unionists make


about Scott and leading the United Kingdom, so a certain irony. --


Scotland. There is an assumption that Scotland is a better, more


progressive place than to the south. In actual fact, Euro-sceptics are


quite widespread in Scotland. But there is a difference in terms of


the intensity, compared with parts of the south-east of England. But


the European Union is not particularly popular in Scotland,


it is just not afforded the same importance in the overall political


landscape as it is in the south of England.


Do you think there's any Euro- scepticism in Scotland?


We heard already by looking at the question, if you wear and already


in the union, would you join it now? -- if you were not already.


There was a great star mash about the question of legal advice, are


we in or out of Europe? Well perhaps we will be out of Europe


anyway even if we stayed in the UK. That will all come and to the


independence referendum brew. I think one mistake that has been


made, strategically, the SNP has either by accident or design


allowed their policy to be conflated with what independence


might mean for Scotland. Lots of these decisions are matters for the


Scottish people if and when we become independent.


I want to look at another story in the Scotland on Sunday. An


exclusive about and you report, a new blueprint for extending


devolution. -- a new report. What do you make of this?


This is familiar territory. An organisation already put forward


something similar. But this is very much aware of the counter argument


to independence will be fully formed. Labour will come quite


close to this proposition, the Liberal Democrats are already


beyond it. So it is shaping up into a proper debate about the Scottish


future, greater revolution or and Alex Salmond version of


independence within the European Union.


And there is no offer from the pro- union parties as to what might


happen in a post referendum Scotland following a yes vote?


I take the view, what has taken you so long? I remember writing


editorials for the Scotland on Sunday more than a decade ago


arguing for extract evolution. It is based on a fundamental right and


principle. A parliament with the power to spend but not tax is


fundamentally irresponsible and cannot be expected to have the


incentives to govern effectively and sensibly. So this is part of a


process. The new Scotland Bill will introduce taxation powers of a


level that far exceed what has previously been available at


Holyrood. Lots of the chattering classes have yet to come to terms


with the opportunities. It is a work in progress.


Well the other pro-union parties get behind us? The Tories?


I have my doubts! I remember Alex Douglas-Home telling us that if we


all voted No in the last referendum a better policy would come along in


a minute. That did not happen. These parties are saying that they


are open to extra day evolution but only after we both know to


independence. If they were serious they could bring forward a Bill on


Westminster so that we know the alternative to voting no.


This is the direction of travel across the whole of the United


Kingdom. Wheels are talking about it. Northern Ireland are talking


Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser.

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