13/01/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


13/01/2013

Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate in Scotland.


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LineFromTo

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

:00:34.:00:37.

With just over a week to go until David Cameron's big speech on

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Europe, politicians and business leaders line up to warn him not to

:00:40.:00:47.

damage our relationship with the EU. Are they right? Should he listen?

:00:47.:00:50.

In a week when the government has been busily marking its own

:00:50.:00:52.

homework, we ask Communities Secretary Eric Pickles whether -

:00:52.:00:56.

when it comes to housing policy - it's a case of must try much harder.

:00:56.:01:01.

That's the Sunday Interview. And as violent protests continue in

:01:01.:01:05.

Belfast over the decision to cut the number of days the Union flag

:01:05.:01:07.

flies above the City Hall, we'll debate the decision and the

:01:07.:01:10.

significance of the riots, as two politicians at the heart of the

:01:10.:01:18.

controversy go head to head. And on Sunday Politics Scotland:

:01:18.:01:20.

We'll be speaking to the chairman of the Scottish Police Authority

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and getting his take on the tug of war over the finances of the new

:01:24.:01:34.
:01:34.:01:34.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2093 seconds

:01:34.:36:28.

It just doesn't add up. The Anglo Irish agreement illustrates the

:36:28.:36:35.

campaign, and now all the sudden it's all changed. But Belfast has

:36:35.:36:39.

changed. Once the, distance, the sectarian divide mystified. Now,

:36:39.:36:44.

the majority of the city feels the same. In the market, the trouble

:36:44.:36:49.

doesn't have the smell test. Conversation 10 minutes from where

:36:49.:36:51.

the protests are taking place are more likely to be about the price

:36:51.:37:01.
:37:01.:37:01.

of Kirsch. The vast majority of people want peace. The court

:37:01.:37:05.

austerity and then this on top of that. It's definitely affecting

:37:05.:37:11.

shops and businesses. Show better respect the people! For many, what

:37:11.:37:16.

they want a black up is the big political and economic cost to

:37:16.:37:26.
:37:26.:37:37.

squabbling. -- to flag up. Now, we go head to head.

:37:37.:37:40.

Now that you've seen the reaction to your decision, do you accept

:37:40.:37:45.

that by reducing the number of days that the flag flies has been deeply

:37:45.:37:50.

provocative and upsetting to half your city? No, I don't accept that

:37:50.:37:55.

the threat of violence, the force of violence and intimidation should

:37:55.:38:00.

in any way alter the democratic process. We're a very difficult and

:38:00.:38:05.

sensitive decision to take. My colleagues took legal and a quality

:38:05.:38:08.

advice that was given to them by the council. They looked very

:38:08.:38:12.

carefully at what it happened in other councils, including Lisbon

:38:12.:38:19.

City Council. Compromises like this had been proposed on designated

:38:19.:38:23.

days. Our councillors believed this was the right thing to do in what

:38:23.:38:28.

is a shed city with a very diverse view. It reflects that Belfast is

:38:28.:38:32.

within the United Kingdom, it respects the black in the way that

:38:32.:38:35.

we're encouraged to do by the College of Arms, and it also

:38:35.:38:39.

reflects the fact that there are many people who have a stake in

:38:39.:38:42.

this city who don't share that allegiance. What is your reaction

:38:42.:38:52.
:38:52.:38:53.

to that? I did vote against the flat policy and Lisbon in 2002.

:38:53.:39:00.

Please don't interrupt me. You've got it wrong. Not just the few

:39:00.:39:04.

thousand people out protesting there are hundreds of 1,000 people

:39:04.:39:14.
:39:14.:39:14.

across Northern Ireland are angry at this particular decision. The

:39:14.:39:17.

Alliance Party need to reflect on this and to realise that going back

:39:17.:39:27.

to majority rule doesn't work. Consensus politics is much better

:39:27.:39:31.

than anyone. They have broken consensus politics in Northern

:39:31.:39:35.

Ireland on this issue. Are want to show you a leaflet which is going

:39:35.:39:40.

to put up on the screen. It's in the colours of the Alliance Party.

:39:40.:39:47.

It shows this picture of the flag disappearing and it changes the

:39:47.:39:55.

slogan into a shared future for whom? On the back, they published

:39:55.:39:58.

Nia me's email and telephone numbers and encourage people to

:39:58.:40:05.

voice their opposition. You really played a part stir this up. Aydin

:40:06.:40:12.

and distribute any leaflets. Your party did. Certainly the leaflets

:40:12.:40:19.

were distributed in Belfast. I think the Alliance Party had

:40:19.:40:25.

stirred this up and whenever I travel over to England and other

:40:25.:40:29.

parts of the UK, I see the national flag with dignity. That was the

:40:29.:40:34.

case with Belfast City Hall. They decided to move against that and

:40:34.:40:40.

that was the wrong decision, a bad decision and it is detrimental to

:40:40.:40:42.

community relations. It is a setback to what we have been doing,

:40:42.:40:48.

along with people on the other side of the committee, for many years.

:40:48.:40:51.

Was there really that much pressure to get rid of the flag on most days

:40:51.:40:56.

of the year? Did you really have to change things? There a couple of

:40:56.:41:00.

things that need to be addressed. In Lisbon City Council, where he

:41:00.:41:04.

was a member, Unionist took the flag down, they then put it up

:41:04.:41:10.

under pressure and finally had to remit it again. He was present at a

:41:10.:41:13.

meeting in 2006 where the decision was taken to fly the flag on

:41:13.:41:16.

designated days in-line with the quality advice given to the council.

:41:16.:41:20.

That is the reality of the situation and I am happy to defend

:41:20.:41:25.

that. In terms of my colleagues, be clear - I am not a member of the

:41:25.:41:30.

City Council. I'm not sure where been targeted in this hate-filled

:41:30.:41:33.

campaign with his inflammatory leaflets which spoke of tearing

:41:33.:41:41.

down the black. Rather than addressing the issue of how we

:41:41.:41:45.

share our identity. With respect out of Blyth has flown in the rest

:41:45.:41:49.

of the UK, many district councils across the UK use the designated

:41:49.:41:55.

days policy. The idea that it is acting British is a nonsense. There

:41:55.:42:05.
:42:05.:42:06.

is of course sensitivity around this issue. Why did you target her?

:42:06.:42:10.

She is an alliance member in Belfast. She is not a member of the

:42:10.:42:16.

City Council. Her office is the centre of activity for alliance in

:42:16.:42:26.
:42:26.:42:27.

Belfast. The that is not true. was the offers that people could

:42:27.:42:33.

easily address when it came to making their protest. But let's get

:42:33.:42:37.

away from this is the cause of the issue. The cause was the removal of

:42:37.:42:47.
:42:47.:42:48.

the flak. -- the flag. Stormont Parliament already has a similar

:42:48.:42:54.

arrangement. It brings it into line with London guidelines about the

:42:54.:42:58.

days you fly the flag. What is the problem? It doesn't bring it into

:42:58.:43:01.

line with the rest of Northern Ireland. There are many different

:43:01.:43:07.

cities across Northern Ireland. The status quo was working. It has been

:43:07.:43:11.

damaged and we can see the consequences of it. Leaving aside

:43:11.:43:15.

people who are engaging in violence, we need to reflect that there are

:43:15.:43:19.

hundreds of thousands of people across Northern Ireland who have

:43:19.:43:26.

been greatly offended by this particular decision. I'm afraid

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we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much for both

:43:31.:43:41.
:43:41.:43:41.

to be joining us from Belfast. Now, you're watching the Sunday politics.

:43:41.:43:44.

Good morning and welcome to the first Sunday Politics Scotland of

:43:44.:43:45.

2013. Coming up: Two governments, two differing

:43:45.:43:51.

futures. Will nuclear weapons stay in Scotland or will they go? And

:43:51.:43:53.

could a decision on Trident in Scotland become a springboard for

:43:53.:43:58.

the wider nuclear disarmament debate in the rest of the UK? Sir

:43:59.:44:02.

Menzies Campbell and Angus Robertson join us to discuss.

:44:02.:44:05.

The new single police force starts in April, but for that to happen, a

:44:05.:44:08.

dispute between the Chief Constable and Police Authority Chairman needs

:44:08.:44:12.

to be resolved. What are the chances?

:44:13.:44:15.

And is Scotland's tourism industry missing a lucrative trick when it

:44:15.:44:21.

comes to promoting the whisky experience? What can we learn from

:44:21.:44:31.
:44:31.:44:31.

international examples? There is only one place in the world that

:44:31.:44:40.

can call itself the malt whisky valid. -- valley.

:44:40.:44:44.

Billions of pounds and thousands of jobs. The cost of moving nuclear

:44:44.:44:46.

submarines from the Clyde if Scotland becomes independent,

:44:46.:44:49.

according to the UK government. The latest twist in the Trident tale

:44:49.:44:53.

led to fierce political fighting between unionists and nationalists.

:44:53.:44:56.

The SNP say parliament and people don't want the weapons on their

:44:56.:44:59.

doorstep - the UK government are adamant the independent deterrent

:44:59.:45:09.
:45:09.:45:09.

must be maintained. The controversial Trident missile

:45:09.:45:11.

has found a hot spot in the constitutional debate. At

:45:11.:45:15.

Westminster this week, the government revealed their thinking

:45:15.:45:20.

on the impact of independence on Trident. Ministers say including

:45:20.:45:23.

its nuclear weapons after new -- after independence would cost

:45:23.:45:29.

billions of pounds and take many years. They also say it employs

:45:29.:45:34.

6,700 military and civilian workers, and that will rise. If those jobs

:45:34.:45:40.

went, Unionist say the impact on Scotland would be catastrophic.

:45:40.:45:43.

What would happen in the Clyde if the SNP got there way to get rid of

:45:43.:45:48.

the nuclear submarines and other submarines? What would happen to

:45:48.:45:52.

shipping in the Clyde if we walk away from the Royal Navy? Warble

:45:52.:45:59.

the SNP do if they win? They just can't keep avoiding the truth.

:45:59.:46:03.

These questions will stalk them right up until a referendum day.

:46:03.:46:10.

The SNP's say they are in step with Scotland as the weapons on wanted.

:46:10.:46:14.

I am on the same side as the unions, the voluntary sector and the

:46:14.:46:17.

majority of public opinion who voted against Trident, saying, we

:46:17.:46:23.

should do much better. We should have a job that working

:46:23.:46:26.

conventional defence, we should get rid of weapons of mass destruction

:46:26.:46:30.

and that will only happen with a yes vote in the referendum.

:46:30.:46:35.

decision to replace trident is not due until 2016 as the coalition

:46:35.:46:40.

partners are at loggerheads. The UK Government also claims they are not

:46:40.:46:43.

considering what could happen to Trident in the event of

:46:43.:46:48.

independence. No ministry worth its salt would refuse to have emergency

:46:48.:46:53.

procedures in place, and as Defence is central to the United Kingdom's

:46:53.:46:57.

policy-making, surely they will be looking at what happens on the

:46:57.:47:05.

Clyde after the referendum. When it comes to post-independence, there

:47:05.:47:11.

is criticism of the SNP. They're is inherent contradiction to their

:47:11.:47:14.

stance towards native. NATO in the last analysis will use a nuclear

:47:14.:47:20.

weapons, and as it isn't all for one, one for all alliance, it means

:47:20.:47:25.

that in theory a Scottish -- an independent Scotland would have to

:47:25.:47:30.

support the use of nuclear weapons. You Unionists also question the

:47:30.:47:35.

SNP's plans for conventional forces after independence. But nationalist

:47:35.:47:38.

taunt Labour and the Lib Dems for their commitment to multilateral

:47:38.:47:43.

disarmament. There is always something to fight to the when it

:47:43.:47:47.

comes to defence. In our Edinburgh studio is the

:47:47.:47:49.

former Liberal Democrat Leader and foreign policy grandee Sir Menzies

:47:49.:47:58.

Campbell. A good morning. Do you agree with the West must do

:47:58.:48:02.

government's response that it will cost billions of pounds and

:48:02.:48:06.

thousands of jobs in an independent Scotland to move away Trident from

:48:07.:48:10.

its current location? Well, there will be a cost. There is a dispute

:48:10.:48:15.

about the number of jobs and it all depends on how you define the job.

:48:15.:48:20.

Do you take account of the people who supply the base? Do you take

:48:20.:48:24.

account of the local businesses who depend on the base for their

:48:24.:48:28.

existence? The one thing one can agree on is that if you take away

:48:28.:48:36.

responsibility for the four Trident submarines and the seven submarines

:48:36.:48:42.

that are powered by nuclear energy, then inevitably there will be an

:48:42.:48:50.

economic impact. The SNP is saying they will use it for conventional

:48:50.:48:53.

reasons, conventional military arrangements. The point about that

:48:53.:48:58.

is, just exactly what would those conventional arrangements amount

:48:58.:49:04.

to? A patrol vessels? With that in any way compensate for the

:49:04.:49:14.

inevitable cost of the removal of Trident? What are the real benefits

:49:14.:49:19.

for Scotland for being part of the union when it comes to defence?

:49:19.:49:27.

Your constituency has been hard hit by the loss of RAF forces. In

:49:27.:49:31.

Scotland, there is an underspend by the MoD, so what is the benefit?

:49:32.:49:36.

The benefits is to have the protection of the United Kingdom

:49:36.:49:41.

defence forces. Of course, these forces have to be positioned in a

:49:41.:49:44.

place where they are most effective. My argument with the British

:49:44.:49:50.

government is that we have the best place to provide the air defence

:49:50.:49:54.

for the northern part of Britain, including Scotland and the northern

:49:54.:49:58.

part of England. But the overall benefit is reflected in the fact

:49:58.:50:04.

that we have a very coherent and cohesive defence which adds an

:50:04.:50:10.

secures our safety. Reading the UK Government's response to the

:50:10.:50:15.

Scottish report, perhaps it seems contradictory in some ways that UK

:50:15.:50:18.

government says it will cost billions of pounds and thousands of

:50:18.:50:22.

jobs, and they are also saying we went even countenance what will

:50:22.:50:27.

happen post independence. Your colleague wrote in a Scottish

:50:27.:50:31.

newspaper today that he would not negotiate and after a possible Yes

:50:31.:50:37.

vote. You agree with that, that it is fair to not negotiate until

:50:37.:50:41.

after the referendum? And well, just imagine if they started these

:50:41.:50:46.

negotiations now. There would be a running commentary, there would

:50:46.:50:50.

never be any question of these negotiations been kept secret. And

:50:50.:50:55.

the negotiations themselves are would form part of the argument

:50:55.:50:58.

about whether the question should be answered in the affirmative or

:50:58.:51:03.

the negative. I think it's very sensible indeed not to indulge in a

:51:03.:51:10.

kind of negotiation that has been suggestion. Pop -- that has been

:51:10.:51:14.

suggested. But I also think that somewhere there will be a group of

:51:14.:51:18.

people looking at the implications of independence. I would be very

:51:18.:51:22.

surprised if that was not the case. But it will be done in a private

:51:22.:51:32.

way and certainly not a way where It sounds like the UK government is

:51:32.:51:37.

lying to us. I am not saying that at all. If you want the

:51:37.:51:40.

negotiations I believe his embrace of the whole idea of negotiating

:51:40.:51:47.

what will happen after independence, the Scottish National Party would

:51:47.:51:51.

say they have conceded the argument. Otherwise they would not be

:51:51.:51:55.

discussing with this the consequences of independence. That

:51:55.:51:59.

information and the nature of the need associations would be bound to

:51:59.:52:03.

be part of the political discourse. The influence would be that the UK

:52:03.:52:09.

government had given up. I don't doubt for a moment that for example

:52:09.:52:13.

in the Royal Navy, maybe not in government, but in the Royal Navy,

:52:14.:52:18.

consideration is given to what they would do in the event there was

:52:18.:52:22.

independence and it was necessary to take out the Trident submarines

:52:22.:52:28.

and the astute class. We are going to be up to seven additional

:52:28.:52:33.

submarines on top of the Trident. Take these away and I don't think

:52:33.:52:36.

anyone can argue that the impact upon the local economy is going to

:52:36.:52:46.

be anything. Maybe your party wants them taken away. You're an advocate

:52:46.:52:53.

of nuclear disarmament. Perhaps that is a good starting-point for

:52:53.:53:00.

disarmament. That would be unilateral disarmament. It involves

:53:00.:53:07.

a disagreement, -- it involves an agreement. You're quite right to

:53:07.:53:11.

mention that because the American President gave its impetus in a

:53:11.:53:16.

speech he made in Prague about two years ago. I am a member of the

:53:16.:53:23.

group of people in the House of Commons seeking to argue that.

:53:23.:53:33.
:53:33.:53:34.

People in the United States, people who might ordinary be seen as all

:53:34.:53:38.

the world watches. The fact Britain of Scotland would give up its

:53:38.:53:42.

nuclear weapons would not persuade India or Pakistan to do so. It

:53:42.:53:50.

would not persuade Israel to do so. If we're going to approach this on

:53:50.:53:55.

disarmament, we have to do on a multilateral basis. Find you very

:53:55.:53:59.

much for joining me live. -- many thanks.

:53:59.:54:02.

Listening to that in his Moray constituency, is the SNP Leader at

:54:02.:54:04.

Westminster and Defence and Foreign Affairs spokesman, Angus Robertson

:54:04.:54:11.

Good morning. Listening to Sir Menzies Campbell there, he pretty

:54:11.:54:15.

much sided with the UK government when the clear point of removing

:54:15.:54:18.

tridents from Scotland would cost billions of pounds and thousands of

:54:18.:54:26.

Scottish jobs. To be honest I am not surprised with that. We know

:54:26.:54:29.

all the parties in the anti- independence side of the argument

:54:29.:54:34.

are using any opportunity to scare the wits out of people and suggest

:54:34.:54:38.

independence is going to cast a whole lot of jobs and investment

:54:38.:54:43.

when that is not the case. It is the status quo that has been bad

:54:43.:54:50.

for Defence in Scotland. We have lost more than multi-million-pound

:54:51.:55:00.

defence contracts. I think what we need to embrace and understand is

:55:00.:55:04.

this debate is about a real profound advantage for Scotland. We

:55:04.:55:10.

could make better defence decisions in Scotland. On top of that list is

:55:10.:55:14.

we can choose for skull and not to be the home of weapons of mass

:55:14.:55:20.

destruction. -- for Scotland. We were able to stress the point and

:55:20.:55:25.

the majority of people don't want them here. The churches are against

:55:25.:55:29.

it, the voluntary organisations are against it. The majority of people

:55:29.:55:34.

would wish it to be different. A Yes vote in independence, we can do

:55:34.:55:42.

that. That is an opportunity that in the run-up to the referendum,

:55:43.:55:46.

people will come to understand there are real benefits from the

:55:46.:55:53.

historic and exciting vote. What are your plans? This is where your

:55:53.:55:56.

opponent's picture upon. What are your plans for conventional forces

:55:56.:56:02.

in Scotland. The UK government said it would take away all submarines.

:56:02.:56:09.

How would you setter defence in an independence Olwen? -- set up in an

:56:09.:56:19.
:56:19.:56:24.

independence Scotland? We covered the whole range of issues last year.

:56:24.:56:28.

How does one organise that there? It is answerable to the Scottish

:56:28.:56:32.

Parliament. We made the decision on what we were prepared to spend on

:56:33.:56:38.

defence. �2.5 billion for the defence budget, you were talking

:56:38.:56:43.

about an uplifting spending than the UK government spends his talent.

:56:43.:56:48.

In terms of the disposition, what goes where, we need to first see

:56:48.:56:53.

the results of the UK Basing review. We were supposed to have that last

:56:53.:56:58.

year and we will have that within weeks. It will give us the starting

:56:58.:57:01.

point for the situation Scotland will inherit with independence.

:57:01.:57:08.

What exactly will be where? We have got out about what is happening. We

:57:08.:57:14.

have doubts about many things. There is something else here, I

:57:14.:57:21.

want to pick up on something else. Another post independence plan.

:57:21.:57:26.

Trevor Royle said it there was an inherent contradiction and your

:57:26.:57:35.

stance on NATO. Scotland would be in exactly the same position as

:57:35.:57:39.

countries like Norway and Denmark. The majority of countries within

:57:39.:57:45.

NATO do not post or possess nuclear weapons. There is no contradiction

:57:45.:57:49.

there whatsoever. What we decided was in a conference, rather than

:57:49.:57:53.

having a partnership with our allies and friends we would work as

:57:53.:57:58.

members within NATO, as a conventionally armed country. That

:57:59.:58:03.

is what the Norwegians, Danes, Icelanders do. We want to work with

:58:03.:58:08.

our neighbours and friends and want the defence in Scotland. We are

:58:08.:58:13.

being let down by Westminster in that regard. Only in independence

:58:13.:58:18.

can we make decisions on defence that secures jobs and communities

:58:18.:58:23.

like this one here. London has let them down. Let's make better

:58:23.:58:29.

decisions in Scotland. That is the sort of thing normal countries do.

:58:29.:58:34.

When it comes to your post- independence well, it seems like

:58:34.:58:39.

more has shot a warning shot. He said they will be no negotiations

:58:39.:58:45.

until after a possible Yes vote in the referendum. I don't see why it

:58:45.:58:49.

is difficult that the Scottish government and UK government can

:58:49.:58:53.

have a series of technical discussions. That is what happened

:58:53.:58:57.

in the run-up to the Edinburgh agreement. It is possible to come

:58:57.:59:01.

to an agreement that has two government working together. That

:59:01.:59:06.

seems sensible to me so I don't see why somebody can't have technical

:59:06.:59:11.

discussions before a Yes vote in 2014. I think this is part of the

:59:11.:59:17.

tactics. It is turning people off from the No campaign. It is can't

:59:17.:59:21.

do this, or can't do that. Somehow we can't do progress. I think we

:59:21.:59:26.

can but it takes good will from the anti- independence parties to do so.

:59:26.:59:30.

I would appear far less of this amirs, less of the scare stories,

:59:30.:59:36.

less of the can't do attitude. Let's embrace what is a really

:59:36.:59:41.

exciting and historic opportunity for Scotland. Many thanks for

:59:41.:59:44.

joining us. There are more than 17,000 police

:59:45.:59:48.

officers in Scotland, a record number. To keep them all to fight

:59:48.:59:51.

crime the government needs to cut costs and that's at the heart of

:59:51.:59:54.

the reforms which take effect in April. Our home affairs

:59:54.:00:02.

correspondent Reevel Alderson reports on progress so far.

:00:02.:00:06.

With just 11 weeks until the new single forced comes into being,

:00:06.:00:09.

there has been little concrete evidence of progress towards

:00:09.:00:14.

amalgamation. This was a loss last week of the new trunk road policing

:00:14.:00:21.

unit. Little evidence of progress in a bitter dispute between Chief

:00:21.:00:28.

Constable and Stephen House and Dick Emery. Each says they should

:00:28.:00:35.

be controlling the budget. MSP is a losing patience. On the justice

:00:35.:00:42.

committee, they say it must be settled. We have had assurances

:00:42.:00:47.

these matters will be resolved during December and they were not.

:00:47.:00:51.

We are now told that later this month there is going to be a

:00:51.:00:55.

meeting of the authority and they didn't seem to be too much

:00:55.:01:05.

information to give us comfort. With a similar reorganisation

:01:05.:01:09.

taking place in the fire and rescue Service, agreement has been reached

:01:09.:01:12.

between the new Chief Fire Officer and the chairman of the fire

:01:12.:01:16.

authority of precisely the same contentious issues at the heart of

:01:16.:01:20.

the police dispute. The failure of the police to do the same was

:01:20.:01:23.

raised that First Minister's Questions the stuff for isn't it

:01:23.:01:27.

true that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice has step back a letter a

:01:27.:01:33.

beast with two heads emerge as both camps duplicate H R finance and

:01:33.:01:37.

other functions. Alex Salmond said he remained confident an agreement

:01:37.:01:47.

would be reached. The chair said he hopes for a formal agreement to be

:01:47.:01:51.

reached at the next meeting on 18th January. That was said before

:01:51.:01:56.

Christmas. The number of officers on the street depends on removing

:01:56.:02:01.

the duplication of services. On the police authority, scrutinising the

:02:01.:02:05.

work of the fours. Rank-and-file officers believe any agreement can

:02:05.:02:13.

be reached. They're working in a way they can be a situation when it

:02:13.:02:21.

can be a more amicable way of moving it forward. On April 1st we

:02:21.:02:25.

will have a unified police service whether there will be unity between

:02:25.:02:29.

the Chief Constable and his police authority is still to be resolved.

:02:29.:02:32.

Here with me this morning is the Chairman of the Scottish Police

:02:32.:02:36.

Services Authority, Vic Emery. The Chief Constable of the new

:02:36.:02:40.

police force could not be with us but he gave that this it meant

:02:40.:02:43.

saying any a paper published by the us P before Christmas represents

:02:43.:02:48.

progress towards reaching a working agreement that allows us to focus

:02:48.:02:52.

on the delivery of a new national policing service for April. Thank

:02:52.:02:57.

you for joining me. It is not a great start. How when it did you

:02:57.:03:05.

get to this situation and whose fault is it?-- howl and earth did

:03:05.:03:10.

you get to this situation. A lot of work has been done to date and an

:03:10.:03:15.

act has been put in place to change the status quo and the dynamic. I

:03:15.:03:19.

think a considerable amount of work has been done and we are in a good

:03:19.:03:26.

phrase. What is so wrong about the chief having his own budget? Isn't

:03:26.:03:31.

it your job to let him have that and let him have his freedom?

:03:31.:03:37.

People need to just bear in mind the fact that the legislation

:03:37.:03:42.

creates two legal entities. One is the Constabulary and the police

:03:42.:03:48.

service and the other is a body whose responsibility is to deliver

:03:48.:03:52.

the budget savings and to deliver the budget and be responsible for

:03:52.:03:58.

it. The Scottish Parliament will hold the Scottish Police Authority

:03:58.:04:03.

to account for the efficient spending on a budget. Alex Salmond

:04:03.:04:07.

described the relationship between you and achieve as creative

:04:07.:04:12.

tensions. What is your personal relationship with Stephen House?

:04:12.:04:18.

All these issues are being debated between the Chief Constable and his

:04:18.:04:26.

team and the 13 members of the SPA. That has been productive, it has

:04:26.:04:30.

been very constructive and it is moving forward. Some areas in the

:04:30.:04:36.

media try to portray this as a sort of personal position between the

:04:36.:04:39.

Chief Constable and myself but it couldn't be further than the --

:04:39.:04:49.
:04:49.:04:50.

from the truth. We get on very well. You're meeting on Friday, the

:04:50.:04:54.

Scottish Police Authority meeting on Friday, what kind of deal are we

:04:54.:05:01.

going to get question mac is it going to be a compromise situation?

:05:01.:05:05.

The deal that will be struck on Friday is what the Act asks us to

:05:05.:05:10.

do. It acts us to hold a chief constable accountable for

:05:10.:05:15.

delivering the best police service possible to the people of Scotland

:05:15.:05:21.

and for another entity, the SPA, to hold into account for that and to

:05:21.:05:27.

manage the Budget. On Friday, a proposal that has been largely

:05:27.:05:32.

discussed will be put forward which says there is a single function and

:05:32.:05:37.

there is a single finance function across the policing of Scotland.

:05:37.:05:43.

There will be a senior people who will be responsible for the policy

:05:43.:05:47.

and strategy is going forward and there will be a single person in

:05:47.:05:51.

the police service of Scotland who will report directly to the Chief

:05:51.:05:57.

Constable to give him the day-to- day operational requirements. I

:05:57.:06:07.
:06:07.:06:07.

therefore have every confidence So you can confirm that there will

:06:07.:06:14.

be no duplication? There will be no duplication. There is one hr

:06:14.:06:17.

organisation and one financed organisation. You have to remember,

:06:17.:06:24.

we're dealing with 25,000 people here. The S PA has a duty of care

:06:24.:06:30.

to make sure we deliver best value. It is not in our interest to

:06:30.:06:34.

duplicate anything that is being done. Thank you very much for

:06:34.:06:40.

joining us. We are running out of time.

:06:40.:06:43.

Coming up after the news: Has Scotland missed a trick when it

:06:43.:06:52.

comes to maximising tourism revenue from the Whisky Trail? Let's cross

:06:52.:07:01.

now for the news with Chris Rogers and Alasdair Fraser.

:07:01.:07:04.

The First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson has said the

:07:04.:07:07.

only way to stop the recent violence there is through political

:07:07.:07:12.

dialogue. He was speaking after 29 police officers were injured in the

:07:12.:07:15.

latest violence linked to a decision to restrict the flying of

:07:15.:07:23.

the Union flag at Belfast City Hall. The debris left behind after a

:07:23.:07:26.

dangerous night. Calm has returned to this part of Belfast, but the

:07:26.:07:30.

violence has been a setback to people working to end the trouble.

:07:30.:07:34.

It is now almost six weeks since the City Council voted to restrict

:07:34.:07:40.

the flying of the Union Flag, sparking a dispute that has brought

:07:40.:07:43.

loyalist onto the streets. The First Minister says violence will

:07:43.:07:49.

achieve nothing. The flag is not going to go up because somebody

:07:49.:07:53.

throws something at a policeman. The only way forward is through the

:07:53.:07:56.

political process. We're trying to encourage people to engage with

:07:56.:08:02.

that and to bring forward channels so that we can talk to people.

:08:02.:08:07.

hopes those initiatives will find a way to stop this kind of trouble.

:08:07.:08:11.

Yesterday, 29 police officers were injured. Their highest casualty

:08:11.:08:15.

figure since the dispute started. The rioting broke out when loyalist

:08:15.:08:20.

returning from a demonstration walk past police officers. Both sides

:08:20.:08:25.

were involved in clashes. Police were attacked with petrol-bombs.

:08:25.:08:29.

This week, senior politicians from Belfast, London and Dublin will

:08:29.:08:33.

hold a meeting where they discussed the trouble. Talks are going on

:08:33.:08:38.

behind the scenes as well. People believe the situation can be

:08:38.:08:45.

resolved, but hopes take a hit with every night of destruction.

:08:45.:08:48.

And eight year-old British girl has been shot dead while on holiday in

:08:48.:08:55.

Jamaica. She was in shock when a gunman opened fire. Several adults

:08:55.:09:00.

will also injured in the attack in a small town on the north coast of

:09:00.:09:05.

the island. A court in Egypt has ordered a

:09:05.:09:10.

retrial after accepting an appeal against the life prison sentence of

:09:10.:09:15.

Hosni Mubarak. He was overthrown in 2011 and imprisoned for failing to

:09:15.:09:17.

prevent the deaths of hundreds of demonstrators during the revolt

:09:17.:09:23.

that forced him from power. Our correspondent is in Cairo. Will

:09:23.:09:29.

this appeal come as a surprise? Not exactly, because his lawyer's

:09:29.:09:33.

have been pushing very hard for the appeal. But it is not just an

:09:33.:09:37.

appeal against the light sentence that he received, but against the

:09:37.:09:44.

entire conviction. So it will be a full retrial. All those

:09:44.:09:48.

extraordinary scenes of Hosni Mubarak appearing in a hospital bed,

:09:48.:09:53.

behind a cage in the Court Room, they will count for nothing now.

:09:53.:09:57.

That has shocked the relatives of the victims, those 850 protesters

:09:57.:10:02.

who were killed during the resolution. They felt that he

:10:02.:10:05.

should in fact I've got a death sentence and found guilty of more

:10:05.:10:10.

serious charges of ordering the killings. But there is a

:10:10.:10:13.

possibility that this could backfire, because he will face all

:10:13.:10:18.

those charges again. But there is a question of course about his health

:10:18.:10:24.

and whether he is in a condition to a retrial because just a couple of

:10:24.:10:28.

weeks ago he slipped in prison and he is actually not in prison any

:10:28.:10:32.

more, he is then a minister it -- military and hospital because he

:10:32.:10:36.

broke a rib. So there are questions about where they can face a retrial

:10:36.:10:39.

at all. That's all for now. There will be

:10:39.:10:45.

for round-up of the day's news here on BBC One at 6 o'clock.

:10:46.:10:48.

Good afternoon. The famous West Highland Way and

:10:49.:10:51.

the Great Glen Way are to benefit from a multi-million pound package

:10:52.:10:54.

of improvements aimed at encouraging more people to enjoy

:10:54.:11:03.

Scotland's forests. The money will be used to create new paths and

:11:03.:11:13.
:11:13.:11:15.

upgrade existing routes. Calls to NHS 24 should be free of

:11:15.:11:17.

charge, according to the Scottish Conservatives. People in Scotland

:11:17.:11:20.

pay the price of a local phone call when calling the advice service

:11:20.:11:23.

from a landline, with calls from a mobile often costing more. The

:11:23.:11:26.

Scottish government says it's considering adopting a new, free-

:11:26.:11:33.

to-use number. It was a cold start to the morning,

:11:34.:11:36.

let's see if that's going to continue - Christopher has the

:11:36.:11:46.

This afternoon a band of rain, sleet and snow is crossing the

:11:46.:11:49.

country. The biggest risk his eyes and it Met Office warning is in

:11:50.:11:53.

force. On high ground there is likely to be snow, but at lower

:11:53.:11:59.

levels, sleet. The ice risk continues across many roads. A cold

:11:59.:12:03.

afternoon with temperatures for many just two or three degrees.

:12:03.:12:07.

With that southerly breeze - at times, a bitterly cold field. Into

:12:07.:12:11.

the evening, drive for a time with mist and fog before his second band

:12:11.:12:18.

of rain comes in from the West. The ice is still in play, a cold start

:12:18.:12:23.

to the working week. That's all for now, I'll hand you

:12:23.:12:30.

We saw some very poor summer tourism figures emerge this week.

:12:30.:12:33.

So, when much of the industry is closed for winter, we're taking

:12:33.:12:36.

stock of this important sector. A senior figure in the industry has

:12:36.:12:39.

told us there's a missed opportunity to attract high end

:12:39.:12:42.

guests to the Scotch Whisky Trail - and to make them stay, eat and

:12:42.:12:52.
:12:52.:12:53.

relax nearby. Here's our business and economy editor, Douglas Fraser.

:12:53.:12:57.

Wish You were Here, the vineyards of sup up the car or California? Or

:12:57.:13:02.

here, the distilleries in Scotland. Scotland can't compete with the

:13:02.:13:10.

best of destinations. The Moray of Firth was this week named one of

:13:10.:13:17.

the top coastlines. We should not forget it is as much about myth and

:13:17.:13:22.

kitsch that keeps people coming. I'm from Canberra in Australia and

:13:22.:13:25.

I have come to Scotland because I've heard it's a bit full.

:13:25.:13:29.

last summer, they weren't coming in sufficient numbers. Official

:13:29.:13:33.

figures showed a drop of 12% in the number of overseas visitors, but

:13:33.:13:39.

spending down 8%. UK numbers were down, but by only 3%, underspend

:13:39.:13:48.

was up by 8%. It's not hard to get the main recent -- the main reason.

:13:48.:13:54.

Our biggest market is the home market, Scottish and English

:13:54.:14:01.

markets. So the English market stayed at home. There were a number

:14:01.:14:06.

of one-off circumstances to deal with in terms of economic activity

:14:07.:14:10.

and some businesses have been challenges with the Olympics and

:14:10.:14:14.

people staying at home to watch it. And of course the weather, which

:14:14.:14:19.

hopefully one of stubble not happen in 2013. Scottish tourism has a

:14:19.:14:25.

target set in 2006. Within a decade, it was due to be 50% bigger, but

:14:26.:14:29.

that has gone off track economically. So, how to get

:14:29.:14:34.

tourism back on the right road? I've just been to make a film about

:14:34.:14:44.
:14:44.:14:46.

the whisky industry. I wasn't the only one looking. A former chairman

:14:46.:14:54.

of visit Scotland, still chairman of Gleneagles Hotel Peter looks to

:14:54.:15:00.

South Africa's Tourism for inspiration. All wineries work

:15:00.:15:03.

together, they all have a great product, or happy to four

:15:03.:15:07.

restaurants, coffee shops, hotels. They are working with the

:15:07.:15:13.

government at all levels to markets are a fickle wind. I see a lost

:15:13.:15:20.

opportunity here. How can we take the islands,, where the industry is

:15:20.:15:26.

a huge player in a fragile, a rural economy and build that into not

:15:26.:15:33.

only a visitor experience but an economy in that area so you have

:15:33.:15:40.

somewhere like a Napa Valley? There is any one place in the world that

:15:40.:15:47.

can call itself the malt whisky valley. This week, a new DEFRA to

:15:47.:15:51.

address that challenge. If a you look at what is happening now in

:15:51.:15:55.

terms of this area, there is a whisky festival that in five days

:15:55.:16:00.

generates �1.2 million. We attract a global market there. As we speak,

:16:00.:16:04.

the malt whisky trail is being re- energised and different leadership

:16:04.:16:09.

and I think you will see a much higher profile. So there is at

:16:09.:16:11.

least agreement on making better use of the whisky. And yes, I've

:16:11.:16:16.

been working on it as well. Joining us from our Inverness

:16:16.:16:19.

studio is Scottish Labour's Highlands & Islands MSP Rhoda Grant,

:16:19.:16:22.

who sits on the Economy, Energy & Tourism Committee. And with me in

:16:22.:16:30.

the studio, for the SNP, the South Scotland MSP, Joan McAlpine.

:16:30.:16:33.

First of all, Joan McAlpine, Peter made an interesting point there.

:16:34.:16:37.

Are we missing the point that I have a really good malt whisky

:16:37.:16:45.

valley with a whisky trail? I think there are opportunities as you were

:16:45.:16:48.

saying in the film. There are opportunities that are being

:16:48.:16:53.

improved this year. Certainly, when you look at the new markets coming

:16:53.:16:57.

in, Scottish whisky went up 20% in terms of exports last year and a

:16:57.:17:02.

lot of those markets in places like emergency -- emerging economies,

:17:02.:17:08.

Brazil and China, can take more of a quality product. So I think it's

:17:08.:17:13.

a good idea but good things are already happening. Rhoda Grant, do

:17:13.:17:16.

you think the government should invest some money in trying to

:17:16.:17:20.

improve the malt whisky valley and emulate what we see in the Napa

:17:20.:17:26.

Valley? Yes, I think they have a role in this and many to take it

:17:26.:17:33.

seriously. We have an iconic drink, we are able to say that across the

:17:33.:17:37.

world. We need to bring people into Scotland and give them a really

:17:37.:17:44.

good experience on the back of that. Yes, the distilleries are there and

:17:44.:17:47.

they are marketing themselves with facilities, but we need facilities

:17:47.:17:53.

locally that people can come and stay, with things like golf, that

:17:53.:17:56.

come hand in hand with the whisky trail that we should also be

:17:56.:18:00.

marketing at the same time. Frankly, we need to look at the road now

:18:00.:18:07.

work there as well, to get people transported into the area easily.

:18:07.:18:09.

Some of the roads are in a disgraceful state. The Scottish

:18:10.:18:14.

government need to look at that. Joan McAlpine, in a documentary

:18:14.:18:18.

this week we saw a professor calling for a could do -- a

:18:18.:18:21.

production tax on whisky that could pulling it billion pounds of

:18:21.:18:25.

revenue. Wouldn't that be a good idea to help fund Scotland's

:18:25.:18:33.

budget? The first of all, I'd like to congratulate that film, we need

:18:33.:18:39.

to see more of that about aspects of Scottish Life and the economy. I

:18:39.:18:45.

think the fact he was addressing was that under the current devolved

:18:45.:18:48.

settlement, Scott and that I Scotland doesn't actually get any

:18:48.:18:52.

of the money that whisky makes. It made �4.2 billion last year and

:18:52.:18:57.

that is �1 billion coming into the UK Exchequer. Rather than taxing it

:18:57.:19:00.

twice as he suggests, which she would have to do under the present

:19:00.:19:04.

devolved system, if we get an independent Scotland, the money

:19:04.:19:08.

that currently goes to the UK would come to Scotland. I think that

:19:08.:19:12.

probably a bit more sensible and realistic and taxing the product

:19:12.:19:16.

twice. So in an independent Scotland would you tax the whisky

:19:17.:19:21.

industry? Were well, obviously all governments tax industries. You get

:19:21.:19:25.

the VAT tax, the money that is raced through people who work in

:19:25.:19:32.

industry. So one interesting thing that the film highlighted is the UK

:19:33.:19:38.

does not protect the industry in terms of headquarters being set up

:19:38.:19:43.

in London. What about a production tax, Rhoda Grant? I would have to

:19:44.:19:47.

say that what Joan McAlpine was saying is absolutely ridiculous. Of

:19:47.:19:51.

course we get our share of taxes through the UK Exchequer. That

:19:51.:19:55.

money comes to Scotland as well, so that is just a myth that the SNP

:19:56.:20:01.

want to portray to encourage people along the road to independence,

:20:01.:20:06.

which is absolutely untrue. According to our production tax,

:20:06.:20:10.

frankly, the Scottish government have a social responsibility that

:20:10.:20:16.

is already legislated for. Are they going to raise taxes... A I'm

:20:16.:20:20.

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