Browse content similar to 08/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
As evidence grows that the Russian passenger jet downed over | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
Egypt's Sinai desert last weekend was the target of | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
a terrorist attack, we look at how Moscow and the West will respond. | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
We'll have the latest from Egypt and Russia, and ask are we now | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
on the brink of an even more dangerous phase of Islamist | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
David Cameron says he's ready to lead Britain out of the EU | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
if he doesn't get what he wants from renegotiation, | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
Will his list of demands result in a good deal or turn out to be | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
And on Sunday Politics Scotland, The Scotland Bill is due to finish | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
We'll be asking the Finance Secretary John Swinney. | :01:18. | :01:27. | |
Speed and as a nation embarked on a Remembrance Sunday, we look at the | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
support of legends receive once they leave the Armed Forces. | :01:34. | :01:46. | |
the most anticipated TV event since the John Lewis Christmas advert! | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
It's Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh. | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
We're not sure if they'll make you start thinking | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
But they may well bring a tear to your eye. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
So, this week, we'll see what many eurosceptics and europhiles have | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
been waiting for with all the excitement of a child thinking about | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
their Christmas wish list, even though it's only early November. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
David Cameron will publish his letter to the President of the | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
European Council setting out the "broad outlines" of what he wants | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
to achieve from his renegotiation of Britain's EU membership. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
The upfront briefing from Ten Downing Street says that | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
he'll challenge both the in and out campaigns to be more | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
But, to assuage the eurosceptic majority in his party he'll use his | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
strongest language yet to say that if he doesn't get what he wants, | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
Whether they believe him is another matter. | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
This is what Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has to say this | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
The British people will not be fobbed off with a set of cosmetic | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
This is about fundamental change in the direction of travel in the | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
European Union, to make sure that it works for Britain, and that it is | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
an effective organisation for all the citizens of Europe, driving our | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
prosperity and competitiveness in the 21st century. | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
If we cannot do that, then we will not be able to win a referendum. | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
That was the Foreign Secretary. Janan Ganesh, is anything happening? | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
There is a problem the David Cameron, the things he is most | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
likely to get from his renegotiation are not the things that will move | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
the average voter, so what he is likely to get our protections for | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
non-euro countries within the EU, and that will be very technical | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
institutional stuff, double majority voting and so forth. That is doable, | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
the Germans don't want a fragmented EU in terms of the currency. Does | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
your average undecided voter decide on the basis of that? I think they | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
are more moved by free movement and immigration, maybe even economic | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
regulation, so the things he is most likely to get may not help him in a | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
year or 18 months' time when he is campaigning to win a referendum. You | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
get the feeling he has delayed telling us what he is really looking | :04:00. | :04:01. | |
for because he is bound to disappoint. Indeed, and he has to be | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
very careful to ask for things he can get. Three of the main things he | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
can get, but I don't think he will get the four years' delay for in | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
work benefits, it is discriminatory and goes against the basic | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
principles and yet he is asking again. We can only hope he has had a | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
nod and a wink from 27 other countries that they will agree to | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
that because if he fails to get it, it will agree to that because if he | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
fails to get it, it'll renegotiation and it is a good package, so we will | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
hope it is not a cavalier piece of speaking. What is your take? Philip | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
Hammond did say some of the changes would be introduced through domestic | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
legislation would be introduced through domestic | :04:49. | :04:57. | |
codify some recent would be introduced through domestic | :04:58. | :04:59. | |
judgments that have gone in favour of the UK and not embedded in treaty | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
change, but the hard language about treaty change, the reason they are | :05:05. | :05:05. | |
standing soaked up, is George treaty change, the reason they are | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
he is going to get a treaty treaty change, the reason they are | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
outs and Britain will get an opt out from an ever closer union. George | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
Osborne's the is that the protection for the Euro outs is the most | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
important thing he can get the benefit of Britain but he knows | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
politically the campaign, the most important thing he has to get those | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
migrant benefit restrictions. We will see what he says on Tuesday, | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
that is when the speech is being made. | :05:36. | :05:35. | |
A senior US government official is quoted today by CNN saying they are | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
"99.9% certain" that the 224 passengers aboard the Russian jet | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
which crashed into the Sinai Desert last Saturday were the victims | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
That's the view in London as well as Washington and now, | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
draws up plans to repatriate 80,000 of its holidaymakers from various | :05:51. | :06:03. | |
locations in Egypt, after it suspended all flights there, | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
following in the wake of Britain's decision to suspend flights from | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
The downing of the flight is a tragedy for those who lost | :06:16. | :06:27. | |
than al-Qaeda, as a terrorist group capable of hitting targets far from | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
In a moment, we will speak to Steve Rosenberg in St Petersburg. First, | :06:32. | :06:49. | |
we are Rosenberg in St Petersburg. First, | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
now? The British were the first to stop flights, the Americans followed | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
another flights to Egypt except to get | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
people out, is it beginning to trouble the Cairo Government? The | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
Egyptian Government seems to be in a very tight situation, from an | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
economic perspective. very tight situation, from an | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
very important to the economy, it is a lifeline to the Egyptian economy, | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
which is already in a bad shape and the tourism industry depends mainly | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
on Russia and Britain, so the fact that no more to wrists, from Russia | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
or Britain, will be coming to Egypt is a huge blow to tourism here and | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
Egypt needs foreign currency and it depends on tourist spot that mainly, | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
so it is a major blow to the industry and put the Government in a | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
tight situation. On the other hand, the way the Egyptians have handled | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
security in Sharm el-Sheikh airport was a matter of great concern and | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
criticism from different countries around the world, even the tourists | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
I have spoken to, they told us when they first arrived, the security | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
measures were a mess, so now the measures have been tightened, some | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
to wrists I spoke to yesterday told me it makes them feel better -- some | :08:06. | :08:17. | |
to tourist. If the President Sese Government is feeling beleaguered in | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
Cairo and will take another economic hit because of the tourism, can we | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
expect further crackdown on the Sinai province terrorist groups? It | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
is hard to tell at the moment, but the Sinai military operation has | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
been going on for nearly two years now and every now and then, we hear | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
about major attacks carried by mainly the IS affiliated group | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
called the Sinai province, so the fact that the group have operated in | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
Sinai the nearly two years, it seems the insurgency group is still | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
gaining momentum and if it happens to be true they managed to smuggle a | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
bomb on board the plane, it is a major blow to the security | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
operators. Sally Nabil, thank you. Let's go to St Petersburg, we are | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
joined by Steve Rosenberg. Is there any indication yet of how, assuming | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
that it is shown to be a terrorist attack, any indication of how | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
Vladimir Putin is going to respond? No, not yet. I think it is important | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
to remember that despite the growing suspicion that this was a bomb, the | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
official Kremlin line still is that it is keeping an open mind about | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
this disaster, it is treating all theories equally and the Kremlin | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
says the fact that it has suspended all flights to Egypt does not mean | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
it favours the terror theory over any other. Having said that, if it | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
is proven to be a bomb, then judging by the way President Putin has | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
responded in the past to terror attacks, I think we can expect a | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
forceful response from him. How is the domestic politics? I know it is | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
hard to tell, because the media is so controlled by the Kremlin, but is | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
this an opportunity for Mr Putin to further strengthen his position with | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
a tougher crackdown, or is there their fear in the Kremlin that | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
having casualties as a result of his war on terror will not make him very | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
popular? It is an interesting question. I remember back in 2004, | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
when there was a string of terror attacks on Russian soil, there were | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
bombs in the Moscow Metro, two planes bombed out of the sky and the | :10:35. | :10:43. | |
year ended with the school siege in Beslan, where 330 people were | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
killed. None of that seemed to dent Vladimir Putin's popularity. Quite | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
the opposite, he used it to strengthen the power of the Kremlin. | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
Now, you could argue that if this doesn't prove to have been a bomb, | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
that could undermine the narrative that the Kremlin has been pushing | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
domestically about its military operation in Syria. In other words, | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
Russia has been saying it has been carrying out air strikes in Syria to | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
boost national security in Russia, to destroy terrorists so they | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
couldn't come to Russia and kill people there, that narrative will be | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
seriously undermined. But whether Russians would connect the dots and | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
say, President Putin said we would be safer but we clearly are not, I | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
don't think that would happen, because the Kremlin control so | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
tightly the media here, particularly television, and television is the | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
key to influencing public opinion. So if the Kremlin was to change the | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
narrative to something more like we have been attacked, we are the | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
victims of terror, we need to carry on our battle against international | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
terrorism, I think the Russian public would support that and from | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
the people I have spoken to on the streets of St Petersburg this | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
morning, I haven't heard a word of criticism of Vladimir Putin. Most | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
people have said to me, I understand Russia is at threat of terror | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
attacks and they don't seem to connect what may have happened to | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
the Russian air bus with Russia's military operation in Syria. Steve | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
Rosenberg in St Petersburg. We're joined now by the foreign | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
affairs analyst Tim Marshall, Dr Domitilla Sagramoso, | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
an expert in Russian security And joining us from our Plymouth | :12:19. | :12:20. | |
studio is the He sits on the | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
Commons Defence Committee, and is Tim Marshall, if, as the | :12:24. | :12:36. | |
intelligence suggests, this attack was coordinated with Islamic State | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
leaders in Iraq, and its affiliates in the Sinai called soon I | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
province, it means Islamic State has the capability to plot mass casualty | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
attacks outside of Syria and Iraq -- called Sinai province. I think in | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
the future, they will be able to do it globally and this is the first | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
sign of them doing it outside of the countries they operate in. The head | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
of the FSB came back the lead met Putin on Friday and Putin | :13:06. | :13:07. | |
immediately set ground the planes, Putin on Friday and Putin | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
that shows us what they truly believe. Britain is third, it is | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
that shows us what they truly Russia and Germany and France in the | :13:17. | :13:29. | |
amount of tourists there. President Sisi has been to Moscow three times | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
since he was elected. He is trying to pull Russia back from America. So | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
it is difficult for the Egyptians and Russians to come back out to | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
openly unsaved. So to come back to your original point, I think it is | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
pretty clear that the Isis affiliate in Sinai swore allegiance to Isis in | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
Iraq. They are under a lot of pressure from the Russians, 20% of | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
the bombing was against Syria. They have told their affiliate in the | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Sinai, you are the ones who can do it from you do the operation, they | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
have killed the Russians and the Russians have to respond, I agree | :14:06. | :14:06. | |
with what the Moscow correspondent Russians have to respond, I agree | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
said, Putin does not respond -- not not respond, Putin responds and | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
response with violence. Johnny Mercer, if | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
response with violence. Johnny true and it was a planned attack by | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
Islamic State, it takes IS into what is called full spectrum terrorist | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
activity and it is better financed than Al-Qaeda, it is better | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
resourced and organised in Syria and Iraq and Osama Bin Laden ever was | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
sitting in a cave in Afghanistan, this takes the global war on | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
terrorism to a whole new level. This threat is existential. You can | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
see, if this is proved to be something that has originated from | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
so-called Islamic State, you can see their strategic region. This is why | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
the Prime Minister has been going on about this for so long. We have to | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
the Prime Minister has been going on State because the threat will only | :15:10. | :15:11. | |
get closer. We see State because the threat will only | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
outpouring of humanity with that little boy washed up on a beach. We | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
outpouring of humanity with that have had 30 of our own terrorists | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
massacred in Tunisia. I understand. Is the British | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
response which the Prime Minister has not managed to get Pollard to | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
agree to on has not managed to get Pollard to | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
jets into Syria, is that really has not managed to get Pollard to | :15:35. | :15:35. | |
adequate given what you have called has not managed to get Pollard to | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
We need to do what we are question of how much manpower or | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
machinery we are sending but the effect we can achieve on the ground. | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
machinery we are sending but the We have been asked to provide those | :15:52. | :15:52. | |
Tornado jets because they have a specific tactical and technical | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
capability to the coalition are asked when it comes to dynamic | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
targeting within Syria. We asked when it comes to dynamic | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
stand up to that and do our duty, and have the stomach for the fight. | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
The idea we are asking people to do some mass bombing in Syria with no | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
strategy, some mass bombing in Syria with no | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
We should have got past this by now. some mass bombing in Syria with no | :16:15. | :16:23. | |
Mr Putin? To a certain extent, this has | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
Mr Putin? brought the ball back to Russia. I | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
would disagree with what the correspondent was saying, that the | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
Russians will not be particularly affected and critical of Mr Putin's | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
paper in the Middle East. On the one hand they understand, that is their | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
argument that the President Assad regime needed to be faced for stock | :16:45. | :16:54. | |
because it had fallen, then jihadists groups in Damascus and | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
western parts of the country weather and they understand that. | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
On the other hand, they will put brakes to any attempt to send ground | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
troops which I think they are not planning to do either. I imagine he | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
will have another response to the bombing. | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
He hasn't done much, Tim Marshall. He has been bombing the other groups | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
against President Assad. He may now extend the bombing to | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
Islamic State. If you look at the pattern of | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
bombing, 80% against the Free Syrian Army, it's changed on Thursday. | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
There was an increase on bombing on Isis targets and I think you'll see | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
more of that in coming days. There is no way the Russians will react. | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
The Russian public, if you look at 9/11 and the reaction of the | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
American public, lots of things have happened to lots of countries, the | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
immediate reaction in the first weeks and months is not, our foreign | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
policy is wrong, but revenge. The most potent of many of the human | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
emotions. I am certain in the short term the Russian public will support | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
more action. Your original point, Isis is in Libya, Syria, | :18:08. | :18:17. | |
Afghanistan, Iraq, India, growing very slowly in many other countries, | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
and it has become the poster boy for jihadists. It has replaced Al-Qaeda | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
and with that comes money and people prepared to kill themselves. | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
Johnny Mercer, the head of MI5 says the threat of terrorism to the UK is | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
the highest he has seen, that was before the jet went down over the | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
Sinai desert. We now know, we have had it independently corroborated, | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
that I S has been using mustard gas on civilians in Aleppo, not because | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
it is a very use to them, but as a sign, we have got it, a sign to the | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
West. Is that a response series SATs is | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
there a response seriously adequate to this? | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
Until now, we have not been militarily involved as much as we | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
should have. We are in a difficult place here, we are learning all | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
still healing from the mistakes in the last 15 years in terms of | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
foreign policy engagement. That can't mean we draw up the | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
drawbridge and think the way to keep safe at home and keep our way of | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
life is to have no strategic involvement overseas. | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
If it is proved this is done by so-called Islamic State, it | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
demonstrates their strategic reach and reinforces that argument that we | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
have to do something about this threat. It is only going to come | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
closer and it is not good enough for it to come closer, the something to | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
happen, and afterward for us to say, we should have done this and that. | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
We need an intelligent foreign policy such intervention strategy, | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
this is what the banister is trying to do and we should support him. | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
He referred to help Afghanistan and Iraq hang over this country's | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
foreign policy and military responses. Does Afghanistan, from | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
the Soviet era, does that hang over, is it a restraint on what the | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
Kremlin might do today? Totally, they are aware of the risks | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
that occurred when they intervened and the deaths and casualties in | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
Afghanistan. One of the reasons why the Civic union became so weak and | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
eventually led to its disintegration. There is only one | :20:27. | :20:34. | |
other point I would like to make which people in Russia are now | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
talking about, experts, is the fact that to a certain extent this attack | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
was also very much targeted against Egypt. I think a lot of the focus | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
has been on Russia. For me, it was always not very clear white Isis in | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
Egypt in the Sinai desert was going to attack if Russian plane, and why | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
not the people who were under the bombs? | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
It seems very much that we should not forget the dimension that to a | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
certain extent the Russians might The rebels will vote down so they | :21:05. | :22:34. | |
can't go. Because of Iraq, we are not going to go without | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
Parliamentary riddled. On the world spectrum, the 1 country that has | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
pushed harder than any other in the Western sense is the French, who are | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
putting the aircraft carrier back into the Gulf. It was therefore to | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
mums and sending it back. At the request of the Americans. This is | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
2007, the Americans don't have a carrier in the gold. It is not | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
because of the fire power. They would make a difference, it is | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
political to say, hand on, we as a culture, who have common things in | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
our belief systems, we are standing together. At the moment, they are | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
not. I will leave it there. At this point, we say goodbye to viewers in | :23:23. | :23:23. | |
Scotland to leave us. Good morning and welcome to | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland. The Scotland Bill is poised to | :23:30. | :23:31. | |
finish its journey through But is the wrangling over | :23:32. | :23:40. | |
further powers finally over? And as the nation marks | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
Remembrance Sunday, we look at the support veterans | :23:44. | :23:45. | |
receive once they leave the forces. When you are in the forces, you are | :23:46. | :23:58. | |
looked after, but then it is a culture shock when you leave. | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
The Scotland Bill is back before MPs tomorrow - accompanied | :24:02. | :24:03. | |
by a shed load of amendments which are supposed to clarify, | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
among other things, the new welfare powers of the Scottish Parliament. | :24:07. | :24:08. | |
Alex Salmond has prompted a late controversy by tabling an amendment | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
saying Holyrood should be given the power to decide if and when there is | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
And, of course, there is a full scale political row going | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
on over how the Scottish government should use the new welfare powers. | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
I'm joined by the Deputy First Minister John Swinney - who's also | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
Cabinet Secretary for Finance, the Constitution and Economy. | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
I suppose we should point out you have been a senator in Glasgow, | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
there used to seeing you with a silly picture of Dundee. I am in | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
Glasgow at this point, but it silly picture of Dundee. I am in | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
this amendment, Alex Salmond who has come up with it. I busy in the | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
government would back him come up with it. I busy in the | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
Robinson in saying the Scottish government should have control over | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
when there is another independence referendum. They legislated for the | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
independence referendum in 2014, and I think everybody acknowledges that | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
legislation was well handed, it was crafted carefully, it was | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
legislation was well handed, it was referendum which was beyond | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
illustration that on this issue of significance, the Scottish | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
parliament should be able to determine how this issue is | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
handled. The counter would be to say you can't have one part of the UK | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
with an indefinite right, when ever it decides, to break up the UK. We | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
had a it decides, to break up the UK. We | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
the legislation that was it decides, to break up the UK. We | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
the Scottish parliament. To me that sets a strong president on how these | :25:46. | :25:47. | |
issues should sets a strong president on how these | :25:48. | :25:55. | |
exercised its competence with such care and effectiveness on this | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
question should allay any of those questions that are raised about | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
whether it is right for the Parliament to hold that power. What | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
we've seen in the course of the last 15 years has been a transfer of | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
additional response military is beyond the ones that were originally | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
conceived of in the Scottish act when the reservation on a | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
constructional policy was put in place. On the Scotland Bill Alec | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
Neill seem to be saying that you now accept that under the Scotland Bill, | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
you will have the powers over things like tax credits. That's right, is | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
it? There are two amendments which will be relevant, one from the UK | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
government and want on the Scottish National Party, which will give the | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
parliament the power to exercise responsibilities. The amendment | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
dolls the macro devolves the tax system, so there can be no doubt the | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
fact the Scottish Parliament can exercise these responsibilities, and | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
the UK amendment sets out responsibilities that enable new | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
benefits to be created in Scotland. Those are the elements in the bill | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
which were not in the bill when it was first put to the House of | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Commons and when it was published, so the UK Parliament has the | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
opportunity tomorrow to strengthen those powers further. And you want | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
those powers so you can do what? Do you want to mitigate the effects of | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
tax credit cuts? We have mitigated some of the effects of welfare | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
reform, in relation to the bedroom tax. Do you want to do it in full? | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
Anyone that thinks the Scottish Parliament has the financial | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
capability and skills of resources to mitigate in full, in the | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
entirety, the welfare reform agenda... The tax credit cuts. That | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
is different is on the whole of the agenda, it would inconceivable... Do | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
you want to mitigate in full? What we have set out on tax cuts | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
specifically is that once we know the scale of the challenge we face, | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
because we don't yet know that, the UK Chancellor has been sent home to | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
think again after the House of Lords interventions, so we're not the end | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
of this month, and we'll know what changes George Osborne will make. | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
Once we know that, we will bring forward our proposals. They are | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
designed to protect the incomes of low-income families. Is that your | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
intention to mitigate, as Labour: four, for you to mitigate the | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
effects of the tax credit cuts? What we will do is look at the scale of | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
the challenge that faces us once we know the extent... Let's take as of | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
now, as the situation now, which may be mitigated by George Osborne, but | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
as of now, what is your estimate of how much it would cost you to | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
mitigate in full the effect of cuts crash mark the starting costs would | :28:59. | :29:09. | |
be 400 million, and it will rise to 630 million. That is the full cost | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
base of George Osborne put to the House of Commons. We don't know the | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
extent on which you will undertake changes by the time we set our | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
budget, which will though: Macro follow the spending review. This | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
minister made it clear that it is our intention to protect people in | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
low-income households, who will be affected by these changes and we | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
will see what the Chancellor says, and then design a properly costed | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
and worked out system that will support low income. Even the worst | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
case scenario as unmitigated by George Osborne, ?400 million | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
initially, why can't you saying now... It is your party which has | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
been shouting loudly. Why can't you saying now, we commit, we will work | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
out something which will mean no family in Scotland loses as a result | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
of the tax credit cuts? For the simple reason people expect the | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
government to bring forward properly organised and operated systems that | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
can address these issues, and that is what we will do. The first | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
minister could not have been clearer in Thursday in setting out the | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
commitment of the government to support low income households. | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
People need to look into the history of the good men to see how we have | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
supported people in vulnerability. We supported people affected by the | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
bedroom tax,... You saying you can't find the money? No, not in the | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
slightest. What I will say is that we will look at what the Chancellor | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
sets out at the end of the month. That is the responsible thing to do | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
so we can work out the circumstances of people who are affected, and | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
addressed that. We will set those details are the Chancellor has | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
resolved the difficulties he has about the operation... The changes | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
George Osborne has proposed the tax bands, which will mean you don't pay | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
the 40p rate until your winning ?50,000, do you agree with those | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
proposals? We will set out the details of our tax stands for the | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
years beyond 2016. Do you agree in principle by people on higher | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
earnings, and the point is that over the years inflation has eroded these | :31:22. | :31:28. | |
bands so people who are on whether to low incomes than ?42,000 are | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
having to pay the higher rate, what George Osborne is saying is that he | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
wants to raise the threshold at which you pay higher tax. Labour | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
said they would not do in Scotland. Whether the macro would you | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
implement those proposals? -- would you implement those proposals? If | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
you look at the changes I've have brought in, you saw me taking | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
decisions which the sifted the burden of taxation from low to | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
moderate households to higher earners. That is me turning into | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
practical reality the principles of this Scottish National Party... What | :32:07. | :32:14. | |
does that mean for tax band? I'm addressing it in principle. We | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
believe people on higher earnings should pay their fair share of | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
taxation, and I deployed that principle as part of the transaction | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
tax. Word comes to specific commitment around about taxation, my | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
duty as the finance minister is to set out to Parliament exactly what | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
changes we will make. These areas will come to us in due course. We | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
won't be able to exercise those changes in relation to tax bands in | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
2017 because the powers will not be with us by then. They will be with | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
us by 2017 because the powers will not be with us by then. They will be | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
with us by what Labour is saying is that they think it is not | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
unreasonable to ask people in Scotland to pay, and they would end | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
up paying more tax than they are now... We think it is reasonable for | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
them to do that to help people on welfare. Do you agree? I think I | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
have said already the point in principle, that I believe people on | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
higher earnings should pay their fair share of taxation. That is why | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
we supported the existence of the 30p tax rate when the Conservative | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
government was taking it away. We will set out our specific proposals | :33:28. | :33:29. | |
to Parliament, where I have a duty will set out our specific proposals | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
and obligation to do that. There is a legitimate argument which has to | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
and obligation to do that. There is higher earnings should pay their | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
and obligation to do that. There is they will receive a substantial tax | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
cut, there is an issue to be addressed as to whether or not that | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
is the right thing to do. Lots of people in this area of the country | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
voted for you, both in the referendum and four Yes to | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
independence. They voted SNP because you claimed you were the party | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
buffet would stick up for the brewer and with a party of | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
anti-austerities. What would you apply if they said, we are getting | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
clear answers from Labour, who say they will mitigate in full the | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
effects of tax cuts, they do think it is more important to do that than | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
to let people who are better off have tax breaks. Why is it suddenly | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
that the SNP can't give us clear answers? The Labour Party is not | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
being clear, because they are spending the money they want to | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
spend... They will spend the money they want to spend to deal with tax | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
credits twice. They won't spend it on education. The one thing I have | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
learned is that you can't spend money twice, you spend at the once. | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
Labour has been caught out spending it twice. You weren't committed to | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
mitigating the effect of tax credit cuts. You could... You would have to | :34:56. | :35:07. | |
make ?400 billion of cuts. I am not going to commit on BBC | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
television... I might commit to it in the Scottish parliament, where I | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
should set out my stance. That is what I will do. Critics will say you | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
are a bit like a chef who fusses in the kitchen demanding you don't have | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
the right ingredients, but now you have the right ingredients and you | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
don't want to make anything. I will set up the position when I get the | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
budget later on this year. We will set out clearly what the stance of | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
the government is. We have pressed and pressed the | :35:41. | :35:52. | |
United Kingdom government to improve the Scotland Bill, which did not | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
deliver the Smith commission and which has resulted in as exerting | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
significant influence to ensure we have a bill which will enable us to | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
take a whole range of decisions on behalf of the people of Scotland. We | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
will leave it there. The nation paused today to remember | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
those who've given their lives In 2011, the UK government | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
introduced Signatories are expected to | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
recognise and try to alleviate the particular problems faced by serving | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
and former military personnel. But finding a job | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
and a home can still be difficult. Our reporter, John McManus, has | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
been to a support centre in Govan Coming together to remember those | :36:29. | :36:44. | |
who have fought on the nation's behalf and especially to pay tribute | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. For many former | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
servicepeople who have hung up their marching boots, the transition to | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
civilian life can be tough. This is one solution. The coming home Centre | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
in Govan, a place where former servicepeople can come for support | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
and help. 40 rolled Martin Gilbert is one of them. With tours of Iraq | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
and Northern Ireland under his belt, he has still found he had few | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
transferable skills to find a new job. So where were the politicians? | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
All the help that I have had since coming out the Army has been through | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
charities. I would like what the Government are meant to be doing? | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
You're meant to get priority treatment on the NHS. You have to go | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
to the start of the queue at the doctors. But when I am unwell, | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
iPhone the doctors and I can't even get past the person on the phone. | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
Ian Hopkins is a former Royal Marine who founded the centre. Says a wide | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
variety of robins are in evidence. The vast majority of people who come | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
through these doors tend to have a mental health issue of some kind. | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
And all the baggage that goes with it. Some are homeless, sofa surfing, | :38:05. | :38:14. | |
or sleeping under the bridges, there are financial problems. | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
Occasionally, problems with addiction and self-medication. Like | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
Martin, Ian also questions whether the Armed Forces Covenant has made | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
an impact. In some cases, yes, but quite often, that does not | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
materialise until later... We recently had to help a veteran who | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
lost a leg in Afghanistan. Through the NHS, he had been offered | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
something he did not need. Until he went along and quoted the Armed | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
Forces Covenant and said what he needed, they then changed their | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
tune. This 29-year-old aunt his liver dog left the forces in | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
December. He benefited from an Army resettlement plan and careers | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
advice. He found life outside the Army's cocoon very different. I am | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
not seeing you get baby-sat, but everyone looks after you. When you | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
do leave, it is a culture shock, really. You don't realise, you need | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
to go and do everything for yourself. You don't know what places | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
are what called or how to with things. Should veterans then be | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
given more help to adjust to life out of uniform? How far should they | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
be prioritised? For example, when searching for somewhere to live? The | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
approach we have taken and the veterans organisations in Scotland | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
have taken, is we do not want to see particular advantages. I can get a | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
negative reaction. Many veterans themselves do not want to be given | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
an advantage but they certainly do not want to have a disadvantage. If | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
you're in Civvy Street, you can regulate pointedly want to get | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
social rented housing. Many of our personnel don't realise that while | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
they are in the Armed Forces, they can accumulate points through that | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
time as well, so leave the forces, they would already have those points | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
to help them access a property. Back at the centre, Ian would like to see | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
his methods spread across the country. I would duplicate what we | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
do all over. Without a shadow of a doubt. Help centres, where people | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
can do meaningful work and help veterans to get resettled in their | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
communities. When it comes to organising and funding that help, | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
have we struck the right balance between charities and the state? | :40:34. | :40:35. | |
I'm joined from Edinburgh by the Scottish Veterans Commissioner, | :40:36. | :40:37. | |
I am curious to know, your take on this, there seemed ten to their | :40:38. | :40:50. | |
between what Keith Brown was saying, that veterans themselves do not want | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
preferential treatment and the interpretation that some of the | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
former servers personnel had of the Armed Forces Covenant, which is that | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
they should get preferential treatment. What is your | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
understanding? I have spoken to many veterans and people who support them | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
over the last year. The point that they don't want preferential | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
treatment is absolutely spot on. However, you have to acknowledge | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
that the transition process from being in the services, and I think | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
the gentleman in the film used the words "cocooned" to something which | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
is quite stark. In one day, you lose your job, your way of life and you | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
have to find a new way. There is definitely a struggle there. That is | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
where a lot of the stress comes in. We have to look at a balance of what | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
can be provided from the statutory services and the charities, but also | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
from society as a whole. Right. And what is your view about whether | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
we're getting that balance right? Some people in the film seemed to | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
feel as if they had been left on their own. Yes. There is a small | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
number who are seriously affected by the transition process and do need a | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
lot of help. The majority make the transition perfectly well. Either | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
through their own efforts or those of the MoD or local government, the | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
NHS, whatever it happens to be, they help them get through the first | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
hurdle. But there is definitely a group, perhaps featuring some of the | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
individuals in that film, who do need help. There are organisations | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
which provide help. We heard from Govan, but there are other | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
organisations relating to employment issues or mental health aspects, who | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
do provide help. The difficulty is often in getting the message across | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
that these initiatives are in place. I am still not clear on, if it is | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
the case, and you seem to agree with Keith Brown, that the veterans | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
themselves do not want preferential treatment, what difference then is | :43:11. | :43:12. | |
the Armed Forces Covenant supposed to make? The Armed Forces Covenant, | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
and various other documents as well, what they have done is highlighted | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
the difficulties and indeed the advantages of service men in your | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
community. It has brought it into the open that some of them, a small | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
percentage, do have issues, something to do with Chloe ability, | :43:35. | :43:44. | |
mental health, physical problems -- employability. It has opened peoples | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
eyes to the fact that you have this great asset. The vast majority of | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
people who leave the Armed Forces have a huge skill set. This idea of | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
giving service, which is instrumental in the community and | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
workplaces and for the economy. We heard the young man they're saying | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
that there is a problem that in a way, in the Armed Forces, you're | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
institutionalised, you don't really have to take the initiative. | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
Everything on the outside, you have to organise yourself when you leave. | :44:20. | :44:27. | |
You have to pick your life in danger in combat of course but nonetheless, | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
the point being made was it is difficult to come out of that and | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
certainly do everything for yourself in a world that you are perhaps not | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
as familiar with as in a world that you are perhaps not | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
around you. People around you know how to | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
around you. People around you know contact with particular advice | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
local hospital or whatever but you don't know any of that. No, and | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
there are some younger members of the Armed Forces who | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
in their late teens or early 20s, who may well struggle. I make the | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
point that the vast majority do know how to access the public services, | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
point that the vast majority do know the charities, if they need to. The | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
point I would make is that there are a lot of mechanisms in place, some | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
relatively new, which should be a lot of mechanisms in place, some | :45:13. | :45:14. | |
there to make that pathway that bit a lot of mechanisms in place, some | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
smoother, throwing out some of the hurdles they have had to get over in | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
the past. Still along way to go, in particular in areas where we have to | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
pass on information. It is very difficult for some of these | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
individuals to find out what information and support is | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
available. In my first year, I seemed to spend a lot of time trying | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
to recommend and get changes to the way information was chaired, the way | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
knowledge is put out, so that young servicepeople in particular though | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
what they can hook into, by way of local authorities and various other | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
bodies, to really make it clear what is out there for them. More broadly, | :45:53. | :46:00. | |
how do you think the whole poppy movement, Remembrance Sunday thing, | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
will develop over the next ten or 20 years? Sadly, many of the people, | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
originally the whole thing was set up to commemorate, or the living who | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
were helped, but survivors of the Second World War, for example, are | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
no longer with us. Well we still have veterans of places like Iraq | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
and Afghanistan, the numbers are nothing like the kind of numbers of | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
people coming back from conscripted armed service in the Second World | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
War. Do you think the whole nature of the thing will stay the same? Or | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
will it change over the next few years? I think it probably will stay | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
much as it is at the moment. Change is unlikely. The military and | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
commemoration process is a fairly conservative thing. I have just come | :46:50. | :46:57. | |
back from Saint Giles this morning, where the late wreaths and had a | :46:58. | :47:06. | |
two-minute silence. A lot of young people there were involved in | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
service. The contribution that they have made, whether it is recent wars | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
like Afghanistan or something in the Falklands, or in the Second World | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
War, I think that will endure. I am at pains to do in my role, as | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
Commissioner, is to make the point to anyone who will listen that we | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
really have a huge asset. All of these people who have served in our | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
Armed Forces over many years, men and women, and their spouses, really | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
do contribute a huge amount. You may not see them in society but they are | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
there. I really do think we could be making more of that. Perhaps making | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
more of a song and dance about it at times. But at the end of the day, I | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
believe do think the public in Scotland respect and want to | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
acknowledge the sacrifice that so many people have made over so many | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
years. Packs us. Thank you very much indeed. | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
Words we hear used all the time in public and political life. | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
But what do they really mean, and how do we do these things well? | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
Someone with plenty of views on the subject is Susan Deacon. | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
Her career's taken her from Government, as Scotland's first | :48:16. | :48:17. | |
health minister after devolution, to the private sector and academia. | :48:18. | :48:19. | |
And she's just become the new Chair of the Institute of Directors | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
in Scotland - the first woman to hold the role. | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
She joins us now from our Edinburgh studio. | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
Susan Deacon, an obvious first question, why do you want to do | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
this? My passion and interest over 30 years, throughout my career, has | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
been about how we can have effective leadership in Scotland, how we can | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
make our country a better place and work together to do that. The | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
Institute of directors in Scotland is a growing organisation that | :48:50. | :48:51. | |
brings together some 2000 leaders from right across businesses, big | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
and small, the charitable sector, the public sector, it really is a | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
fantastic gathering place for that leadership community to grow and | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
develop. I am proud to take on this role as it's Chair. Despite the | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
reconciliation between business and Blairism that went on after 1997, it | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
is not immediately obvious why a former Labour minister would want to | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
run an organisation which, in the past, I think it was fair to say, | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
was seen as somewhat to the right of the CBI? There is a diverse mix of | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
people in the organisation with all sorts of different political views | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
and number. The organisation itself is strictly nonparty political. I | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
have been like a cracked record for many years, to say that we have to | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
get better at working across boundaries. Weather across sectors | :49:49. | :49:57. | |
or parties, universities and business and Government... Having | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
organisations like the eye of the that can join some of those dots and | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
look at how in Scotland we can work together to bring about the change | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
that we all want to see. It is important. If we're going to have an | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
effect of transport infrastructure, the skills we need for the future, | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
vibrant businesses, big and small, that means we must work together. We | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
are small country. All too often, he pulls it and point the finger at | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
others. We need to be around the table, not across it, if we're make | :50:29. | :50:40. | |
a difference. Why do they want you? You would need to ask others why | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
they want me. I would like to think the pretty eclectic mix of | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
leadership roles I've had over the years gives me a capability to head | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
up the organisation as its chair, but also to build some of the | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
much-needed connectivity we need here in Scotland and a crass our | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
leadership. I'd like to be a team player and what is nice about an | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
organisation is that it is individuals who choose to be part of | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
it, who want to work with others to develop themselves, their | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
organisations, and in the main I think they are strongly motivated by | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
wanting to make Scotland a better place. The stuff that you are saying | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
earlier. A lot of people listen to that and think it sounds terribly | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
grand but vague as well. Specifically, your ideal collecting | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
people together and showing leadership, realistically, what | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
could the IOD do, or I'll organisations like the IOD, that | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
they're not doing? In specific terms. I have often said, including | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
back when I was in Parliament, that you can have all the fancy | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
strategies in the world, all the great plans and analysis and | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
statistics you like, but unless you actually have... The government you | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
were part of what is good at producing grand plans. I have the | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
agreed, and one of the lessons I learned was about the limitations of | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
top down government action, and I have criticised as being over relied | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
on that. That was very much from that experience was if you take | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
something like the skills gaps we have in Scotland, we have had no end | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
of reports, we have agencies and expert groups, the kind of skills | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
will need in the future, whether in our care sector or the IT sector, in | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
engineering, get the amount of analysis we have done is not the | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
portion of the two the amount of action we have had done. I accept it | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
is not the stuff of headlines, but we need to have employees working | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
hand-in-hand with colleges and universities, making sure the | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
courses on offer at the ones that will equip people better for the | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
future. Just on that. As it happens, I was speaking to people in the IOD, | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
and what they were saying is that there is a problem now in certain | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
areas that the world is changing so fast, courses are not giving up word | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
so the problem is not generalities about getting people into colleges, | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
it is that even if they are in there doing marketing, for instance, the | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
world is changing faster than their courses. Is that what you are | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
thinking that the IOD complainer rolling? Exactly. We live in a world | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
where the only certainty is uncertainty. The generation, the now | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
have to be flexible and adaptable, and those who provide education and | :53:42. | :53:43. | |
training to them how to make sure and those who provide education and | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
they fleet of foot and are moving with the times for the world around | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
us. As I say, you do that I having fancy policy statements, you do it | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
by making sure employers and education providers are working | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
together day to day. It is not the stuff that grabs headlines, but it | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
is the stuff that makes a difference. We said you were the | :54:07. | :54:15. | |
first woman chair of IOD Scotland. Do you... There is a problem with | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
women in public life in Scotland. There are many women in leading | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
positions in Scotland, but my sense is not as much as down south. I | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
don't know, is not as much as down south. I | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
you look at the political leadership in Scotland, women are very much in | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
the ascendancy. If you look at a host of businesses in Scotland you | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
will see a growing number of women leaders. They are at the helm, both | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
in executive roles and in our boardrooms as non-executives. But | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
there needs to be more. It should not be an exercise about numbers. | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
there needs to be more. It should Women, more than anyone, we want to | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
be sure we are doing the jobs we do on merit and recognise full is that | :55:00. | :55:08. | |
discussion about diversity, it is not just about numbers, it is not | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
making sure our boardrooms have the skills and ability to do the job. We | :55:14. | :55:21. | |
are making progress, but we have 2 do more work. OK, we will leave it | :55:22. | :55:23. | |
there now. I'm joined by Shabnum Mustapha, | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
who was a special adviser to the Liberal Democrats in government, and | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
by Paul Hutcheon, the Investigations Shabnum, let's talk rubbish tax | :55:34. | :55:48. | |
credits Raoul. What do you make of it? I find it bizarre that the SNP | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
did not know there were powers coming through that would allow them | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
to top it up, but they... They would say they could not know about the | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
amendments until they saw the amendments. Everyone else seemed to | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
be aware of it. The SNP were playing catch up and it was embarrassing for | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Alex Neill in the middle of the six minute speech having to make a | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
U-turn about what they can and can't do with new powers coming forward in | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
the bill. At the same time this week, they seemed clear on their | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
demands for powers in Scotland to hold another referendum. It seems to | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
be that it is odd... You heard what John Swinney was saying, they will | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
help the low paid and worst. The issue is that they have had to be | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
tried into this. It is quite an usual for the SNP to be on the back | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
foot. They should have been there from the start saying no matter what | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
happens at Westminster, people in Scotland who lie on these tax | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
credits will be no worse off. They should have been front putting this. | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
Instead they are on the back foot and scrambling around. Do you agree | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
with that, Paul Hutcheon? I was trying to suggest that the SNP is | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
that they are anti-austerities, and Shabnum says they should be saying, | :57:13. | :57:20. | |
we should do this and that. But they are saying, I can't say until I get | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
the budgets. I agree the SNP have been on the back but in this issue. | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
There is a brutal political reality underpinning this. Labour will not | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
win the election, so they can afford to make adventurous and bold | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
spending commitment on tax credits, because they know they would be in | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
the position to implement it. The SNP will win the election, so what | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
ever they say on tax credits, they're going to have to deliver on | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
it. They will have to find the money. That explains their | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
reluctance. One criticism of labour, I presume, is that they are saying | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
it might appeal to people affected by the tax credit cuts, but Middle | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
Scotland might say, we quite like the idea of the tax changes George | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
Osborne is bringing in. There has been good politics from the Scottish | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
Labour Party and that they are showing that this dwindling thing. | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
But where is the money going to come from? They say they won't raise | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
taxes on middle income earners, it would push ahead with cuts and | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
fiddle with tax bands. There are questions over that. Given that | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
Labour would win the election, they won't be subjected to too many | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
detailed questions, it will all be about what the SNP will do. You can | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
understand the SNP wearing about these things. I bet you don't find | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
the Lib Dems are rushing to say they don't think people should not gain | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
from the changes. In government you how to make difficult decisions, but | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
on welfare, the Lib Dems have made it clear they won't introduce | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
sweeping reforms that George Osborne wanted. We block them in government. | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
The SNP should have been front putting this issue. What about Paul | :59:09. | :59:17. | |
Hutcheon's point. John Swinney says it will cost ?400 million if the | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
situation were as now. Where will they find the money from? You don't | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
have the worry of about that in opposition. As Paul offline, Labour | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
have made those choices as to whether money will come from. The | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
SNP can find the money at the will is there. So you have to question | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
where their political will is there in helping the brewer in Scotland. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
Someone else would just come up is David Cameron getting tough on | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
Europe. Come on's exit warning on EU reform will stop he will tell they | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
might generally leave the EU if he does not get what he wants for some | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
credible? No, it is a blood which people will see through. It has the | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
makings of a quagmire for the Prime Minister. I can't see anything he | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
can bring back that will persuade his Eurosceptic colleagues. Even | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
more importantly, even if he does bring back powers, there's no | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
guarantee that if the referendum is successful for the Prime Minister, | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
that these governed will sign of two and agree to it. You might have a | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
change of government it one of the eastern European countries and they | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
won't back. You have governments that are accountable to their own | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
electorates, not to the UK. I think he is getting sucked into a | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
situation he can't control and has been left with headlines like this | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
which are bluffing. He might mean it. I'm not sure. One of the | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
proposals that he has come forward with is to ban migrants from | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
claiming benefits for four years. Even his own Cabinet Secretary has | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
told them it is illegal under EU law. He will fail at the first | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
hurdle on that one. You how to astral self, where is he going with | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
it? Will he have to campaign leaving the EU question what I did think it | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
is what he wants or George Osborne. They have not properly thought this | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
out, and it a mess. Adding to the mix that with Davidson has said | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
exquisitely that she wants to stay in the EU -- Ruth Davison. It is | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
incongruent with saying I might leave if I don't get what I want. On | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
face value there is difference, but everyone expects the Prime Minister | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
to be arguing for Britain's placed in the EU. No one expect him to beat | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
campaigning for an exit abode. He is trying to ramp up the rhetoric, give | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
the impression this is what he wants. No one expects him to be | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
serious. What about Syria? It is bubbling under the issue. One figure | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
saying you are letting down allies by not bombing Syria, but the | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
government saying they would intend to go back to the House of Commons | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
but only when the mood is right. What do you make of these | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
developments? The mood is not there, the mood is not the amongst all the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
political parties, including the Conservative side. We saw foreign | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
affairs select committee report, which the majority of Conservative | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
MPs said the case has not been made for military intervention. The focus | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
should be more on coming up with a kind of regional solution, bringing | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
in people from across the Middle East together to try and come up | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
with a more peaceful solution. And also taking in refugees who are in | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
with a more peaceful solution. And not doing. You can see the twin fun | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
tree people, because it is almost part of the definition of what | :02:49. | :02:58. | |
Islamic State is -- you can see the argument. The argument is that, they | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
don't recognise these bodies, yet we are making some artificial | :03:04. | :03:03. | |
distinction. are making some artificial | :03:04. | :03:17. | |
-- has happened. You then have the are making some artificial | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
intervention of Russia. It is a complex situation. The political | :03:23. | :03:24. | |
mood is not there, so complex situation. The political | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
focus efforts on other complex situation. The political | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
military. You can't Sunday Politics is back in a | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
fortnight at the usual time, 11am. | :03:40. | :03:43. |