Browse content similar to 09/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Theresa May was cheered by the Tory faithful | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
as she charted her vision for Brexit. | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
We'll be talking about the plan - or what we know of it - | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
with Lib Dem leader Tim Farron and former Tory Cabinet | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
The olive branch might have withered but Jeremy Corbyn has | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
stamped his authority on the Labour Party | :00:56. | :00:56. | |
with a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle that's rewarded allies | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
And one Ukip MEP is still in hospital following an altercation | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
Just what exactly happened in a week which has seen | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
Could the Scottish Parliament stop a hard Brexit? | :01:13. | :01:22. | |
we'll be speaking to the Crofting Commission boss | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
And we'll be talking about the tape that's derailing Donald Trump's bid | :01:27. | :01:40. | |
We've also reshuffled our own top team here in the studio, | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
and we've ended up with three journalists who show all the unity | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
the humour of a Conservative Party conference speech, | :01:50. | :01:58. | |
and the anger management of a meeting of Ukip MEPS. | :01:59. | :02:09. | |
that means they'll probably be fighting in a few minutes. | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
Yes, it's Helen Lewis, Tim Shipman and Isabel Oakeshott. | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
So, where else would we start but with Brexit? | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
And the Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has been talking | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
He coined a new term - full Brexit - and he was asked | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
if Britain was going to be leaving the EU's single market. | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
This is Brexit. This is full Brexit if you like. We are going to be | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
outside the European Union but we still, because it is over 40% of our | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
trade, we still want to maximise our trade with it. A final question in | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
the papers today. You see soft Brexiteers briefing against hard | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
Brexiteers and vice versa. This is terribly damaging for the Cabinet | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
presumably. We are all Brexiteers now. We have to make a success of | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
it. So, a lot of briefing against Mr Hammond after his speech to the Tory | :03:03. | :03:04. | |
conference. Then Mr Hammond's people briefing | :03:05. | :03:15. | |
against people like Liam Fox David Davis, Boris Johnson. Today, one | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
phrase was they were talking nonsense and garbage. When did we | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
get the first Brexit resignation? A good question. We have full Brexit, | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
open and close Brexit, hard and soft Brexit. The Prime Minister does not | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
want to provide a running commentary so ministers are trying to tell us | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
nothing but in interesting ways. I do not think anyone will resign but | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
what is interesting as you get a situation where everyone is a | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
Brexiteer now but there were very different views about how this is | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
going to go forward. The Prime Minister herself, she did two things | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
last week. She gave a speech for a domestic audience and a foreign | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
audience. She is trying to embody the hopes and dreams of a group of | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
people who feel they have been left out, the people who have been left | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
behind on the domestic front and also voted for Brexit. By embodying | :04:10. | :04:11. | |
those people fighting for their causes she is having to take a hard | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
line on immigration. There may be no one about to resign now but we are | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
only 100 days into this many government and the briefing on both | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
sides of the so-called hard Brexit versus the so-called soft Brexit was | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
the Treasury. It seems to embody the soft Brexit approach. The briefing | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
is fierce. It is going to lead to trouble, to blood. This is a | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
peak-time will stop we have just come away from the Tory Party | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
conference where every journalist worth their salt is working the | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
party circuit, going to dinners. It is an easy agenda to get every | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
cabinet minister you lunch or dine with to give you their version of | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
what Brexit said -- should mean. There is a melting pot here which is | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
bubbling away. Things may become more disciplined in the week ahead. | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
I do not think it is sustainable for Theresa May to say she will not give | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
a running commentary. It is a red rag to every journalist and all her | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
own Cabinet. You cannot keep that going for the next few months. She | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
will have to give a clearer guide as to whether it is hard, soft, in or | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
out, whatever it is. Theresa May is going to have to deploy the smack or | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
firm government. She has been smacking away already. All three | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Brexit is happening to be airing personal opinions. The fact they are | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
ministers in charge of this is totally irrelevant. There is | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
political and economic things at work. What no one will say is that | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
you can have hard Brexit but it will probably almost certainly have | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
economic consequences. How do you go as a politician of the country and | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
say we hear you want to control Iraq -- immigration but that means the | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
country will be poorer? People will always be straddling it in a really | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
uncomfortable way. OK. We'll be talking more about this as the | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
programme goes on, you will not be surprised to hear. | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
This week, Theresa May closed her party's conference | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
with a speech designed to grab the centre ground | :06:18. | :06:19. | |
She positioned the Conservatives as champion of the working classes | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
and pledged to help those left behind by globalisation. | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
We'll wait to see what any of that that means in practice. | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
But it was what she had to say about Britain's exit | :06:29. | :06:30. | |
from the EU that had the biggest immediate impact, | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
not least on the value of the pound, as the world began to get a clearer | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
We now know when the process of leaving the EU will begin. | :06:38. | :06:47. | |
Theresa May has set a deadline of the end of next March | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
for triggering Article 50, which formally begins the Brexit | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
That allows only two years to do a deal, so we should be out | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
of the EU by the end of March 2019 by the latest. | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
The Government will also introduce a so-called Great Repeal | :07:02. | :07:03. | |
Bill next year, which will end our membership of the EU. | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
Theresa May talked of Britain being a fully | :07:08. | :07:09. | |
The Prime Minister also said she will prioritise | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
controlling immigration by ending the free movement | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
Because being subject to the European Court of Justice | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
and free movement are key requirements of membership | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
of the EU single market, this strongly suggests the Prime | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
Minister does not see Britain remaining a member. | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
But there were some mixed messages about life after Brexit. | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
The ability of EU citizens to stay in the UK remains a grey area. | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
Brexit secretary David Davis said they would be 100% able to stay | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
while Theresa May struck a more cautious tone. | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
And Home Secretary Amber Rudd's plan to shame firms that | :07:51. | :07:52. | |
take on foreign, rather than British, staff, faced a backlash | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
from business and political opponents. | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
There was also a range of mood music about life as we head for the door. | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
Chancellor Philip Hammond was at one end, warning the country | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
to brace for a roller-coaster ride ahead. | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
But Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson attacked what he called | :08:13. | :08:14. | |
gloomadon poppers and said Britain would be more active on the world | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
Well, I'm joined now by the Liberal Democrat Leader Tim Farron. | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
And the former Conservative Cabinet minister, Iain Duncan Smith. | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
Let me come straight to the point, first of all with you, Iain Duncan | :08:28. | :08:40. | |
Smith. Is it now clear that whatever relationship we will have with the | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
single market, we will not be a member of the single market when | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
Brexit is complete? I think when you add all these things together, it | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
becomes, I believe, is pretty clear that what the Prime Minister said, | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
what has been said by a number of Cabinet ministers, if the centre of | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
our negotiations is that we intend to control our borders and the flow | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
of migrants from the European Union, which has caused, in some cases, a | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
great deal of damage to workers and their incomes at the bottom level, | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
the skilled level, that means there is no way that the European Union | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
will be able to allow us to be a member of the single market. That is | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
not the same as access. Tim Farron, do you accept that is the way we are | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
going? Whatever access arrangements we have, and we will have some | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
arrangements. Even North Korea has access to the single market. But we | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
won't be a member. That looks to be the way the Government is taking us. | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
It is a massive mistake. I think Ian is wrong to say there has been a | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
massive decision in favour of us leaving the single market and if | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
that is what he is implying. It is given that a small majority voted to | :10:00. | :10:13. | |
leave the EU but no one voted to leave the common or single market. | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
It seems to me to be flying in the face of all the economic indicators | :10:17. | :10:18. | |
of whatever the British people want, or is best for British jobs. It | :10:19. | :10:20. | |
seems, for the Conservative Party, to be a reinterpretation of the | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
result for a hard Brexit that nobody voted for. That is strong point. We | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
do not have too much time this morning, so I'm going to try to keep | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
this moving quickly. How do respond to that, Iain Duncan Smith? It is | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
utter rubbish. The British people made it clear decision. They were | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
asked a simple question. Do you want to stay in or leave the European | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
Union? Were they asked whether they wanted to leave the single market? | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
You need to have a look at the rules around this. The single market as | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
part of the European Union, whether you like it or not. Do you think we | :10:58. | :11:05. | |
should be in the single market? Do you agree with the overwhelming | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
majority? No, no. I am sorry. The massive benefits which exist are | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
asked to be able to trade with the European Union and have access. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
America has access. They sell more to the European Union than we do. | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
Hold on. There is no point talking over each other because you are too | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
far-away. Let me come to Tim Farron. If you want to be in the single | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
market, you have to accept free movement. You have to accept the | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
jurisdiction of the European port. In effect, that is membership of the | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
EU. Isn't that what we voted against? -- the European Court. Tim | :11:44. | :11:56. | |
Farron I am talking to. The reality is, and I accept the result of the | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
referendum. It is the direction of the United Kingdom being towards the | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
European Union as we stand. The deal we get at the end, as Lord Kurt, the | :12:07. | :12:16. | |
writer of Article 50, agreed with me overnight because destination is not | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
the same. You cannot start this process with democracy and end up | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
with a stitch up, which is what the British people will get. Many people | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
around the country voted to leave the European Union but there will | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
not agree, I am certain, with having imposed upon them complete exit from | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
any relationship with the nearest market and friends and neighbours, | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
which will cost tens and hundreds of thousands of jobs. Let me get you to | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
respond to that, Iain Duncan Smith. When article 50 was drafted, he did | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
not mean it to help any country leave, he deliberately designed it | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
so it would make it so difficult to leave it would almost be nigh on | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
impossible. The second thing about the point that Tim makes, which is | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
complete nonsense, is the added that we will lose tens of thousands of | :13:05. | :13:14. | |
jobs. What we are looking for is a free trade relationship with the | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
European Union. That is the key point. We are not leaving Europe, we | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
are leaving the European Union. This is the problem. There is not a | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
problem in that for common-sense and decent people. Hold on, Tim Farron. | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Sterling has slumped at the prospect of hard Brexit as it has dawned on | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
the markets that the Government is heading for a so-called hard Brexit. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Doesn't that give you pause for thought? Doesn't it make you think | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
it might not be the right course? If you go to the airport at the moment, | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
you would be lucky to get 1 euro for ?1. Doesn't that make you think? Not | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
really. What you know about the free-flowing currency is it will | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
fall and rise in accordance with what people speculate about and the | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
prospects for the future. The point to look at is what the underlying | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
story is for UK business. It used to be that the BBC generally spent its | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
whole time telling us how terrible things work if you look at the FTSE | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
250 or the FTSE 100. In the same period we have seen the FTSE 250, | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
the small and medium companies, at record levels high. Much higher than | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
before we decided to leave the European Union. Here is the other | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
point. There is hugely a story about a strong dollar. The pound rose | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
against the yen was the dollar rose against the euro, the yen, and the | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
pout. Here is the deal. The pound is doing our supporters a of good. -- | :14:49. | :14:56. | |
the pound. There is no point heckling. That is my job. The point | :14:57. | :15:03. | |
is that the pound having fallen means British business is doing very | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
well. And that is a very good thing. Other than the slump in Stirling, | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
what has gone wrong for the UK economy since the 23rd of June? | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
First of all, I am not saying everything is completely calamitous. | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
I take the views of all of the business leaders, people who wrote | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
to the Financial Times yesterday, people who are former members of the | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
Prime Minister's business advisory council, who say that whatever your | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
view on leaving the European Union, departure from the single market | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
would be calamitous. Really worrying indicator, this 31 year low drop in | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
the pound, and we have not even left yet. That is what worries me. And | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
what worries me more than anything else is that you've got the British | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
business community, who now feel that the Conservative Party are | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
listening to the English nationalist forces that have taken over the Tory | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
party, rather than to good common-sense business practice. When | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
Roger, who, the Ukip MEP, tells you that you have gone too far here, | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
then you probably have gone too far. Iain Duncan Smith, let me bring you | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
back in. We haven't got time for speeches this morning, from either | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
of you. Iain Duncan Smith - don't we need to give just a bit on free | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
movement, to secure open access? If we want really good access to the | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
single market, we will have to give something on free movement? | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
Actually, I wrote about a week ago in a paper which set out how you | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
have control of your migration policy which is flexible enough to | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
allow people to come into jobs inside the UK or outside the UK. And | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
that is the kind of flexibility which leaves the British Government | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
controlling the idea about how you access work through work permits. | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
That means for higher skilled people, it will be a very light | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
touch regime, but for the low skilled, which is where the most | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
damage has been done, you have tight regime. You say, listen to British | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
businesses - these are the self appointed losers of British | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
business. That meet you something - these are the same people who told | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
us before that Brexit... They told us, just like you did, Tim, that we | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
would crash and burn afterwards, there would be a calamitous fall, | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
the British economy would be destroyed. Some of us had a more | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
lofty view. I wish everybody would get calm because what we want is | :17:33. | :17:41. | |
Britain to do well. It is not my party... I have got one more | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
question for you, Tim Farron - why have you now lost a second here in | :17:45. | :17:52. | |
the House of Lords, Baroness Manzoor, who says you are not | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
recognising the will of the people in the referendum by calling for a | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
second referendum? She has joined the Tories, so that's Brive - how | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
many more to go? Well, we are 20,000 up, Andrew. It is a peculiar | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
decision which I totally respect. You only need to look at what's | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
happened since June, with the Liberal Democrats gaining 20,000 | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
members. Thousands of them from the Conservatives, hundreds since their | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
conference last week. You look at the by-election gains, the Liberal | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
Democrats winning 18 in the last few months, and half of them... You are | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
not set to lose her? I am always sad to lose people, but I am joined | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
overjoyed to have gained 20,000. Come and joiners in the studio next | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
time, where we can get a proper grip on this debate! | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
With Parliament returning tomorrow, Jeremy Corbyn has been | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
reshuffling his Shadow Cabinet, following his thumping win in this | :18:51. | :18:52. | |
And unlike previous reshuffles, it's been a pretty decisive affair, | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
which has seen him give big jobs to his supporters. | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
Mr Corbyn has moved ally Dianne Abbott to Shadow | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
Home Secretary, keeping Emily Thornberry at Shadow | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
Foreign Secretary and moving Clive Lewis to Business. | :19:06. | :19:07. | |
He's been replaced on the Defence brief by Nia Griffith, | :19:08. | :19:18. | |
There's also a job for new Labour peer Shami Chakrabarti, | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
who recently carried out a report into anti-semitism in the party. | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
And chief whip Rosie Winterton is out. | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
She's replaced by the veteran whip Nick Brown. | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
You may remember him from the Gordon Brown years. | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
Mr Corbyn has also brought back a number | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
of Shadow Cabinet members, who resigned in protest | :19:42. | :19:43. | |
They include Jon Ashworth, as Shadow Health Secretary. | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
Although he's also been removed from the National Executive | :19:47. | :19:48. | |
Committee, Labour's ruling body, where power has been finely balanced | :19:49. | :19:50. | |
Well, to discuss this, we're joined by the Labour MP, John Mann. | :19:51. | :20:01. | |
John Mann, who is a Corbynite critic. Mr Corbyn says this is the | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
most diverse shadow cabinet ever, the best team to take Labour forward | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
- what do you say? Well, it's his choice of team. And I think we | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
should get on with the job now. Think he has won, whether people | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
like it or not. And the last and we want I think is a year of | :20:21. | :20:29. | |
internalised, inward looking navel-gazing. Like the last year? | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
Like the last year. And I have said, I was not in favour of the timing of | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
this challenge, but we actually have to get to grips with the referendum | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
result and the fact that quite a lot of Labour voters voted to leave, | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
unlike the general view in the Labour Party. There's lots of issues | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
we should be looking at, but we should not be looking inwards. Is | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
there much of an olive branch from Mr Corbyn to the Parliamentary | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
Labour Party in this? I would not call it an olive branch. But if I | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
was him, I would have done pretty much what he has done. He's won the | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
election. If I was leader, I might choose different people. That | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
probably goes for everyone of the 200-plus members of the | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
Parliamentary party. But I think there is a bit of a... The idea you | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
can negotiate a shadow cabinet or cabinet, I mean, it's important that | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
he has all viewpoints represented somewhere, otherwise we'll be much | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
weaker. And so we wait to see whether every view is going to get | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
proper Leanne Wood. That's vital. But he's got to make the choices. -- | :21:35. | :21:43. | |
every view is going to get properly aired.. Quite a lot of London | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
representation - how does that help people like you in the north and the | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
Midlands? It's following the trends of Tony Blair, was always keen on | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
having lots of people who worked in London, and Ed Miliband even more | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
so. So it is not a new trait. He's chosen the people, but what's | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
crucial is, with ceremony people from the metropolitan area, that | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
they spend a lot of time out in areas like mean, not talking to the | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
members, not doing photocalls, they can do that if they want, but going | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
and talking to voters. If they do that, I've got no objection. If they | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
don't, then that will mean that there is not sufficient knowledge of | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
what the wider electorate is thinking. Those shadow cabinet | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
members, every week, should be out there knocking on real doors, in | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
areas that perhaps they are not too familiar with. Keir Starmer, your | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
new shadow Brexit secretary, he has said that there should be a vote on | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
article 50, that when the Government moves it, Parliament should vote. | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
What do you think of that? Well, let's see what... We are quite a way | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
away from seeing what Google is going to do. I think what is vital | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
in terms of Brexit is actually to get into the detail, because there's | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
a lot of slogans, the full Brexit, the soft Brexit, the hard Brexit... | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
Actually, the issue is, what access do we get to markets, what access do | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
we give to our markets? And is there any form of restriction on the free | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
movement of labour? They are the three big issues. We need detail. | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
And it's the negotiation not in the British Parliament but with the | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
Germans and the French in particular that is vital. And of course that | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
hasn't begun. Mr Corbyn told us at the Labour Party conference that he | :23:40. | :23:41. | |
was not really that interested in controlling immigration. Keir | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
Starmer said this morning on the BBC that immigration has become down - | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
you must encouraged by that? What a coalition! Keir Starmer as the | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
person responsible I hope we'll be talking to those of us who supported | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
the Leave campaign in the Vale, and more fundamentally, getting out of | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
those areas where the vast majority of Labour voters voted to leave. If | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
he's going to do his job properly, that is critical. I'm confident that | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
he will do that. Do you know yet what the party policy is on | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
immigration? I'm sure that will emerge over the time. I do not know | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
what the Conservative Party's ease, either. We do not know what the | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
response of the Germans and the French will be. They have got | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
elections next year. This is rather a movable feast in those countries. | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
Therefore, we should be in 20 new negotiations, as Labour. It's | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
crucial that our leadership talks and listens to Labour voters and to | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
those who have voted Labour in the past. | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's re-shuffle has upset the Chair | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
He represents the party's backbench MPs. | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
In an e-mail, John Cryer said Mr Corbyn "did not | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
engage" in a promised plan to reunite the party by allowing MPs | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
Mr Cryer said he had been in talks with the leadership | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
with the aim of "striking an agreement which would allow | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
some places to be filled through elections, while the leader | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
But on Wednesday it became clear "a reshuffle was under way, | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
which had not been discussed or mentioned". | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
Well, we're joined now by Barry Gardiner. | :25:28. | :25:29. | |
He's kept his job as Shadow International Trade Secretary. | :25:30. | :25:39. | |
What happened to the idea of electing at least part of the Shadow | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
Cabinet? Well, I was part of the discussions in the Shadow Cabinet, | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
with Rosie Winterton, who was the chief whip. And she made it very | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
clear that what would need to happen is, there would need to be a vote | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
first of all at the NEC to change the party rules. So I don't think | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
anybody was under any illusion that we could have direct elections now | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
to the Shadow Cabinet without that change in the party rules. Is the | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
idea dead for the foreseeable future? Doormen, is the honest | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
answer. That is for Jeremy to decide. But I think what would be | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
clearly wrong is, if we now going to almost rerunning what was the | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
election contest. And it would be foolish to saddle a leader with a | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
group of people in the Shadow Cabinet that were out of sympathy. | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
And indeed, that was why the Parliamentary Labour Party, when Ed | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
Miliband asked us to give him the right to appoint the Shadow Cabinet, | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
rather than the previous system, which had been elected... What do | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
you make of the chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Mr | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
Cryer, complaining that Mr Corbyn did not engage with him in this | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
reshuffle? Look, I don't know what discussions took place. John is a | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
very good friend. He's a very good representative of the PLP, as its | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
chair. But he's one of the best connected people in the party, and | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
the idea that anything took face without his knowledge I find it | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
difficult to believe. He says, Niall Quinn OMP backing him up was a | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
charades in the negotiations? That is a separate question. And I don't | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
think that's true at all. Because the Shadow Cabinet said to the | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
previous NEC meeting delegation, to actually initiate those | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
negotiations. But I think John Mann, who sat here just a few moments ago, | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
got it absolutely right - the Labour Party now must not look inwards for | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
the next year, it must begin to look outwards. It must be challenging the | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
government on what it is doing in our education system and saying, it | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
is wrong to segregate our children. They must be challenging the | :28:01. | :28:01. | |
government on housing and homelessness. I am delighted that | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
John has come back into the Shadow Cabinet, nobody better to take | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
forward our fight for housing in this country. If you want to appeal | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
across the country, are there not too many London metropolitan types | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
at the top? The four great Shadow offices of state all seemed to come | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
from within walking distance of each other. It's a kind of shadow cabinet | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
of all BMW one talents? Well, you could ever welcomed the fact that | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
two of those great offices of state, for the first time ever, are held by | :28:33. | :28:49. | |
women. -- NW1 talents. Broomstick is, it is very London centric. It is | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
not because you have got five MPs from the north-east in the Shadow | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
Cabinet, four from Greater Manchester, all of whom are women. | :29:00. | :29:02. | |
You've got five from Yorkshire. In terms of the population of the | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
country as a whole, it's very representative of whether Labour | :29:07. | :29:15. | |
votes are. John Ashworth accepted the Shadow bridge but is no longer | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
on the National Executive Committee. Does Mr Corbyn now have a majority | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
on the NEC, the ruling body of the Labour Party? The majority would | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
always be on issue by issue. I don't think anybody goes to the NEC | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
determined to wage wall or battle. I assure that people go there to | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
listen to arguments and decide what is in the best interest of the party | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
and the country and take Ossetians accordingly. Why was it important | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
that Mr Ashworth stepped down? I don't know whether it was important. | :29:49. | :29:56. | |
John has been a superb member of the Shadow Cabinet. He has always | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
represented very clearly the views of party members, and I think he | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
will do a fantastic job at health. We will leave it there. | :30:06. | :30:16. | |
I still have energy and can. When we last spoke, I put it to you that we | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
were massive importers of energy including gas. I came here primed | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
for that. Next time I will bring the power with meat! | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
The party with the third highest vote share at the general election | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
has, just since Tuesday, lost a leader, seen | :30:42. | :30:43. | |
the return of Nigel Farage - even if only temporarily - | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
and seen the favourite to take over end up in hospital | :30:47. | :30:48. | |
after an altercation in the European Parliament. | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
Our Ellie's been watching the soap opera unfold. | :30:51. | :31:02. | |
So, we've all heard the rumours about the internal | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
Well, this week, they played out in front of our very eyes on the TV | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
screens in the most dramatic of ways. | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
It was only just over three weeks ago. | :31:14. | :31:21. | |
18 days later, she realised that wasn't going to happen. | :31:22. | :31:33. | |
In her resignation statement, she said she didn't have | :31:34. | :31:35. | |
sufficient authority, nor the full support, of her MEP | :31:36. | :31:37. | |
colleagues and party officers to continue. | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
There was also this clue in the official form she filled | :31:42. | :31:43. | |
in for the Electoral Commission, where she signed her name | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
In the meantime, Nigel Farage seemed pretty chipper, explaining | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
I keep getting over the wall and running for the hills. | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
Before I am finally free, they drag me back. | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
It doesn't have one because she's resigned. | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
The Ukip constitution is quite clear. | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
In these circumstances, the National Executive Committee has | :32:13. | :32:14. | |
the right to appoint an interim leader, which I presume it will do | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
at its meeting on the 17th of October. | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
I'm told the NEC might have met earlier but someone | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
is on is on a cruise, so it wouldn't be quorate. | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
It was starting to feel a bit like a soap opera. | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
It's almost like being a part of Dynasty. | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
By close of play, this man, who probably would have been leader | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
last time if he hadn't been barred from standing had thrown | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
But then things went really off script, when he, Steven Woolfe, | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
after a meeting with colleagues that went... | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
There are mixed accounts of what happened. | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
It's two grown men getting involved in an altercation. | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
We're talking about a dispute that finished up physically. | :32:58. | :33:05. | |
I understand there was an argument between some MEPs and Steven, | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
I think, picked a fight with one of them, and came off worst. | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
It later transpired that the MEPs had been arguing about reports that | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
Mr Woolfe had considered defecting to the Tories. | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
That had ended in a scuffle with this man. | :33:24. | :33:25. | |
It was, as people in Hull would say, handbags at dawn. | :33:26. | :33:36. | |
He even tweeted a picture of his hands to prove it. | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
But Mr Woolfe's team questioned that version of events and said his | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
Either way, the two men have been in touch and say | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
they want to meet - handbags and all - | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
But that might not be the end of the story. | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
So, part of Ukip's charm has always been to say and do | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
things the other party would never even dream of. | :33:58. | :33:59. | |
But this week has been different and a number of senior Ukip sources | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
have told me that what happens next will be make or break for the party. | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
They say that will depend on who the next leader is. | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
Before all this happens, Steven Woolfe, seen | :34:12. | :34:13. | |
as a disciple of Nigel Farage, would have been favourite. | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
It must surely have been obvious to anybody, having seen this, | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
that Steven Woolfe, and of course Mike Hookem, | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
I don't think Mike would put his hat into the ring. | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
Surely they can't now consider that either of them could stand | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
The party's biggest donor, Arron Banks, | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
It's fairly indicative of the party split between those who think | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
the new leader should be moulded in Nigel Farage's image, | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
and those who can think of little worse. | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
The party is bigger than any one individual. | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
Everybody has a responsibility within Ukip to safeguard | :34:55. | :34:56. | |
its reputation and that's what I'm asking all people to do now | :34:57. | :35:06. | |
The drama may be over for this week but with the leadership campaign | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
looming, there will be plenty more episodes to come. | :35:13. | :35:14. | |
And we're joined now by the Ukip MEP Bill Etheridge. | :35:15. | :35:16. | |
He was at the meeting where the "altercation" | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
between Steven Woolfe and Mike Hookem took place, | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
and he stood to be leader in the party's last | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
leadership contest, which only finished in September. | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
We have learned, while on-air, that Steven Woolfe has left the hospital | :35:33. | :35:43. | |
in Strasbourg. Bill Etheridge, were punches thrown? First of all, as all | :35:44. | :35:52. | |
MEPs we should apologise to our member ship and supporters for all | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
this nonsense. With regards to punches thrown, I was first on the | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
scene. I did not see punches thrown. I saw Mike with his hands down his | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
side and is Steven Wolfe halfway through and unlatched door. -- | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
Steven Woolfe. He was on the floor. Before you got on the scene, there | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
could have been blows exchanged? In the 15 to 30 seconds before I got | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
there, there is a possibility but Mike has denied that there were any | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
punches thrown and I have not seen any evidence that their world. The | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
friends of Steven Woolfe has said independent medical examinations | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
suggests he does have wounds and bruising which cannot be explained | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
by simply a fall to the floor. I am sure the chairman of the party will | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
look into that and see the exact information being discussed. When it | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
is something put out by sources or friends, let's wait and see the | :36:49. | :36:56. | |
actual information. Was it the idea of Steven Woolfe that the dispute | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
should be settled outside? Yes, Stephen stood up and said, if this | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
is the temperature of your comments, I think we should sort out | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
man-to-man. He took off his jacket and walked outside. Unfortunately, | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
and he has said he regrets it, Mike went outside and did the same thing | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
himself was that neither of them should have done it. It was foolish. | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
If that is response by Steven Woolfe to an argument, no matter how | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
heated, among his own MEPs, does that disqualify him to stand as | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
leader? It does not disqualify him. It says something about his | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
temperament. What I will say is it was not heated argument at the | :37:43. | :37:44. | |
start. We were discussing the fact he had been in a conversation with | :37:45. | :37:46. | |
the Conservative Party about joining. Only a day or two earlier | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
he had said he was not going to join for that we asked if that was to do | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
with the fact that he heard Diane James was standing down. That was | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
the purpose of the meeting, to find out what Steven Woolfe was doing | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
about the Conservative Party. Due to this altercation, we never got an | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
answer. I personally would like need to know what he was doing. What was | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
said? I and stand this happened quite quickly into the meeting. What | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
was it that was said which meant, take the jacket off, we will settle | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
this outside? Steven Woolfe had said about how upset he was that he could | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
not stand in the summer, his form were late by 17 minutes. Mike said | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
whether it is your fault and no one else's. Steven Woolfe reacted | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
angrily and we could get no further conversation. That was the extent of | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
the provocation, to say it was your fault. He was not swearing but he | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
basically said, that's your fault, it is your responsibility. Are you | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
going to stand in this leadership contest now? Up until this happens, | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
I was seriously considering rolling in to try to make sure we did not | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
have people who had been negative towards the party and towards Nigel | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
taking over. Now I do not feel I can support Steven Woolfe and, yes, I | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
will be standing. Isn't the bitter truth, your previously the last for | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
18 days. Two MPs have now said to step outside and we will sort this | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
with jackets. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Ukip is not a | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
proper, functioning party without Nigel Farage at the helm? You cannot | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
survive without him. Nigel is a fantastic leader. He has led us very | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
strongly and powerfully. It is up to us to take responsibility. That is | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
one reason I want to do it to bring the party together. Every time he | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
goes quickly fall apart. There is no functioning Ukip I would suggest | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
without Nigel Farage. Up to us to make sure we get systems in place | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
and make sure we have strong leadership and pull the party | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
together. We can do it. We have 4 million voters than 30,000 members. | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
They must be feeling very let down. It is up to us to make sure we do | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
the right thing and look after them and be there to represent them. | :40:09. | :40:09. | |
Thank you. Good morning and welcome | :40:10. | :40:11. | |
to Sunday Politics Scotland. The Government has a mandate | :40:12. | :40:23. | |
for leaving Europe but does it have | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
a mandate for a hard Brexit? Despite a vote | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
of no confidence, the convener of | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
the Crofting Commission tells this programme | :40:32. | :40:32. | |
he refuses to stand down. Will the Scottish | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
Government now intervene? And from 'banking | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
collapse' to Brexit, we're in Hawick to see | :40:39. | :40:40. | |
how one Scottish town has been coping | :40:41. | :40:42. | |
with difficult times. Now, the meanings of 'Brexit means | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
Brexit' proliferate by the moment. MPs right across | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
the political spectrum are demanding they be given | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
a vote on whether there should be | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
a so-called Hard Brexit or whether Britain can stay | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
in the single market, There have been threats | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
from the Scottish Government to frustrate the process | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
as much as possible. But does the Scottish Parliament | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
have any power in this area? A little earlier, I spoke | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
to Professor Alan Page, who has advised Holyrood, | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
Westminster and the EU Well, the good all the Scottish | :41:16. | :41:36. | |
Parliament and bought a's repeal bill the short answer to that | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
question is no it could not. It could withhold its from the repeal | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
Bill depending on its precise terms but that is not the same as blocking | :41:44. | :41:54. | |
it. The Scottish Parliament would, however would it not have to pass | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
legislation that means that it's all legislation does not have to comply | :41:58. | :41:59. | |
with EU law I am not sure the Scottish Parliament would have to do | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
that. But legislation would have to be passed by Westminster I think. In | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
order to relieve the Scottish Parliament of the obligation to | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
comply with EU law. And if they're anything the Scottish Parliament | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
could do to block that it could as I said, with all that is there | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
anything the Scottish Parliament could do to block that? It could, as | :42:20. | :42:21. | |
I said, withhold its consent which would be underlining its opposition | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
to the UK and Scotland leaving the European Union. But simply | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
withholding its consent without war would not affect the validity of the | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
amending legislation. That I think if the crucial point. It is also | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
ambiguous is it not while the Scottish Government might want to | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
vote against that in the Scottish Parliament, for political reasons | :42:43. | :42:44. | |
there are other political reasons in favour of it. For example minimum | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
pricing on alcohol would presumably be within the power of the Scottish | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
Parliament if they did not have to comply with the UK law. Sorry EU | :42:53. | :43:00. | |
law. Well that is a very good point point. Acts of the Scottish | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
Parliament should no longer be open to challenge on grounds within | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
incompatibility with EU law and that would mean for, assuming that the | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
Scotland act was amended to that effect that legislation could no | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
longer be blocked or its recommendation delayed on the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
grounds that it was incompatible with EU law and alcohol in pricing | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
is the current example of that. Do you have any thoughts on a slightly | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
different issue, which is rearing its head in some of the papers this | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
morning which is members of Parliament not the Scottish | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
Parliament, the hang on a minute we might not have a bowl on when to | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
trigger article 50 but could we really have for example a Hard | :43:42. | :43:50. | |
Brexit and we MPs at an point would have any say on what kind of leaving | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
the European Union would take part in I think that is an absolutely | :43:54. | :43:55. | |
compelling argument. It is a very powerful argument but what is needed | :43:56. | :44:03. | |
clearly is an MPs to support it. You could say that Parliament sold the | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
past once with the European Union referendum act in the sense that it | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
did not make any provision for what was going to happen in the event | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
that the electorate, the people the United Kingdom people both to leave. | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
So that question was left completely open, which is why we are in the | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
position we are today. But, having voted to leave people beginning to | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
think about the actual implications of that, yes I think there is a case | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
for saying do we agree or not agree with what has actually been proposed | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
but as they say enough MPs would actually need to comment on and | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
support that. But either in for the Scottish Parliament because even if | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
you accept the argument that the referendum on the EU was a UK vote | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
that Scotland had already voted to stay part of the UK so it applies in | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
Scotland as much as anywhere else presumably members of the Scottish | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
Parliament could say hang on we are being asked to accept a had breaks, | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
we do not think you Westminster the British government have got any | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
mandate. Scottish MSPs will undoubtedly see that. But, as I | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
indicated earlier that will have no effect unless that argument | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
resonates with Westminster, and in particular with a sufficient number | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
of MPs at Westminster for them to do something about it. All right thank | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
you very much indeed. I'm joined now by the Scottish | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
Conservatives' constitution spokesperson Adam Tomkins, | :45:37. | :45:37. | |
and in Dundee is the SNP's Europe spokesperson | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
at Westminster, Stephen Gethins. Stephen, that was pretty on there is | :45:40. | :45:50. | |
nothing the Scottish Parliament can do to block Brexit no matter what | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
the Scottish Government says. Well, let's not forget we are going to go | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
to one of the greatest constitutional crises, which huge | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
impact on the Scottish Parliament's powers so it is right that is | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
Scottish Parliament should have a say on this. Remember through this | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
Scotland act but according to Alan Page, it does not have any say. I | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
think the Scottish Parliament have to have a say. If we are to take to | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
at her word when she is talking about involving the Scottish | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
Government involving the Scottish Parliament then the Scottish | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
Parliament should have a say and I hope that Westminster is not use its | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
powers of at that we were told it did not exist last year during the | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
Scotland act to force that on the Scottish Parliament. But the point | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
Alan page is making is that she the British Government decided to go for | :46:40. | :46:49. | |
a hard exit exit, no matter how much it may well have consulted the | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
Scottish Government what that means there is nothing the Scottish | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
Parliament can do to stop it. Well, it was clear from the Conservative | :46:56. | :46:56. | |
party conference this week is that it was clear from the Conservative | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
we are heading for the hardest of hard Brexits. We have not been told | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
if it is soft or hard it is definitely a dog's Brexit because we | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
have not had that many details. That is a joke you prepared earlier It | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
have not had that many details. That was good was at not they need to be | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
in. We are in a bit of a mess and I wonder whether Professor Tomkins can | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
tell us whether we are going to be in the single market. We need more | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
details from the government and the need to be respecting the will of | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
the Scottish people and respecting the Scottish Parliament's | :47:35. | :47:35. | |
responsibilities as well. Adam, what is your take on what will happen. | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
Iain Duncan Smith spoke to and renewal earlier. He is was that the | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
British people had voted to get out of the single market because they | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
single market its part of the European Union and we voted to that | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
out of the European Union. Arguably that is not what the people in | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
favour of leaving the worst the campaign. The British people voted, | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
70 but people, voted to leave the European Union. -- 17 point people. | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
That is what Brexit means. The United Kingdom will leave | :48:07. | :48:08. | |
institutions of the European Union. We will no longer be a member state | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
that is what it means. So when you leaders of during the campaign, look | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
exactly what relationship we have with the opinion is up for | :48:19. | :48:20. | |
discussion afterwards, this boat is just about whether or not we are | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
members actually what that meant was wear out of the single market we are | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
out of the customs union and there will be no free movement of labour. | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
You are arguing that actually we voted for all of that. I am not. I | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
am simply arguing that we've voted to leave the European Union meaning | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
that we will cease to be a member state. The live question now is what | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
the of relationship with the Union, with the individual member states of | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
the European Union but Iain Duncan Smith's argument says it means we | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
cannot be part of the single market market. | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
A core part of that argument will be what kind of access or participation | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
in the single market when now on. The Scottish Conservatives have been | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
clear we won't have much access to the single market and as much part | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
of in that, as is compatible with leaving the European Union. I am | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
sorry, Ruth Davidson was on this programme last week saying all that | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
and that she liked free movement of labour and wanted to be part of the | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
single market. Iain Duncan Smith and his views seem to be a by the | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
British Government is saying that we voted against all of the stuff that | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
Ruth Davidson and Adam Tomkins said it was like to see. It is simply not | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
going to happen. The... The... The board was not about membership the | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
single market it was about ownership of the European Union Union. . -- | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
the. We will no longer be a member state and the question is what kind | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
of relationship with the EU including what access to the single | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
market and participation in the single market we will now seek to | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
negotiate in the national interest. Stephen, there was also sorts of | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
rhetoric from the Scottish Government immediately after the | :50:07. | :50:08. | |
vote. Nicola Sturgeon went off to Brussels the role of that Scotland | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
could from her stay in the single market as the rest did not. There | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
was some desire that should Scotland vote for independence by European | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
leaders it would be fast tracked back in. Absolutely nothing | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
whatsoever has come of that. What you got from the Scottish Government | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
after the vote was leadership. It was a setting up an expert group to | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
look at the range of options. It was speaking to a European partners. It | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
was on capital investment to offset the danger and damage that | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
Conservatives are doing to our. And it was reassuring EU nationals about | :50:45. | :50:46. | |
your future and that Scotland is their home. We have had none of that | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
from the Conservatives. Now and on the single market now answers from | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
EU nationals just more hard rhetoric at the conference that frankly they | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
should be ashamed of. The Scottish Conservatives are arguing they have | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
said others, nobody is listening to them you do not like the Tories we | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
get the message! In terms of getting any commitments from Europe about | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
anything to do with Brexit Nicola Sturgeon and anybody else in the SNP | :51:14. | :51:15. | |
has got absolutely nowhere. getting we are still waiting for | :51:16. | :51:26. | |
details. Our European partners don't know what they are planning to do | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
next. The Scottish Government rightly came out and set clear | :51:32. | :51:38. | |
leadership. We have had nothing from the UK Government, absolutely | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
nothing, they can't even tell us if they have the objective of remaining | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
part of the single market. Their newspaper reports this morning | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
saying a lot of MPs, including many Tory MPs, want a vote on some of | :51:53. | :51:59. | |
this, that are concerned. They accept they cannot overturn the | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
referendum vote to leave the European Union, but they are worried | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
that there will be no point at which MPs are allowed to say for example | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
that they don't want a hard Brexit or something more like Stephen | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
Gethins want or more like you want, and this is just wrong. I don't | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
understand where that concern comes from. The Prime Minister made it | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
clear in her first conference speech on Sunday last week in Birmingham | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
that there will be a great Repeal Bill as she calls it, to recall the | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
European communities act 1972, the instrument which took us into the EU | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
in the first place in the 1970s. Only Parliament can repeal | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
legislation. Neither the Prime Minister or the government can do | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
legislation. Neither the Prime that. A vote on a bill is not the | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
same as parliament being able to say, for example, we don't want a | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
hard Brexit, we will accept some form of staying in the single | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
market. I don't accept that. I think repealing the European Communities | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
Act will require Parliament to have its say over what will replace it | :53:01. | :53:08. | |
once it is repealed. Really? That is the nature of legislation. Let me be | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
clear, there is an elementary constitutional point, only | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
Parliament can repeal Parliament pod at --'s registration. It will be up | :53:16. | :53:24. | |
to parliament not Theresa May. Stephen Gethins, do you accept that | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
Parliament will have a vote on what kind of Brexit? Parliament should | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
have a vote and the Scottish parliament and the UK Parliament | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
because Professor Roy was setting out that tens of thousands of jobs | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
could be affected. We are out of time. Will the SNP demand... Will be | :53:42. | :53:49. | |
SNP demand along with people like Ed Miliband at Westminster and some | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
conservatives that Parliament be given the right to decide what type | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
of Brexit we are in for? Of course, and there has to be full | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny. I have put down an urgent question that Theresa | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
May needs to come to the House tomorrow to talk about this | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
triggering of article 50. We will have to leave it there, thank you | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
both very much. The body responsible for protecting | :54:11. | :54:11. | |
and regulating Scotland's crofting is embroiled in some dramatic | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
internal politics of its own. pressure is increasing on the head | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
of the Crofting Commission to resign after the Scottish Government | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
became involved. Scotland has nearly 20,000 crofts | :54:22. | :54:33. | |
overseen by the Crofting Commission. After suspending two local grazing | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
committees in Lewis on the grounds of financial mismanagement it was | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
forced into a U-turn. There were claims the commission was | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
heavy-handed and may have acted illegally. The Scottish Government | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
is now involved. It called on the commission and its convener, Colin | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
Kennedy, to apologise. Last week Mr Kennedy walked out of the | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
commissioners meeting. Those that remained issued that apology then | :54:58. | :55:08. | |
passed a vote of in Mr Kennedy. The First Minister gave their take on | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
events in Parliament earlier this week. I know crofting commissioners | :55:11. | :55:12. | |
have unanimously called the convener to resign. The Scottish Government | :55:13. | :55:14. | |
has requested more information in relation to the events. While the | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
government would not ordinarily intervene in the operations of an | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
independent statutory body, the legislation gives Scottish ministers | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
power to act if required. MSPs are watching developments with interest. | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
There is no doubt there has been fallout amongst commissioners caused | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
by the behaviour of the convener of the Crofting Commission. This | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
organisation needs a new convener and a reconstituted board with the | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
ability to get back to doing what it is meant to do, work for crofters | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
across Scotland. We understand Mr Kennedy has no plans to resign but | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
would make no further comment. The implication is clear, will he jump | :55:55. | :55:55. | |
or be pushed? a lawyer and blogger specialising | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
in crofting matters. Well, the crofting commissioners | :55:58. | :56:07. | |
have no confidence in their leader. He will not resign the Scottish | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
have no confidence in their leader. Government has threatened to get | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
involved, what is on? It all goes back to December last year when they | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
decided to put out of office committee in Lewis. In 2016 they put | :56:24. | :56:39. | |
out two other. -- two other committees. What I don't understand | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
is that Mr Kennedy, the commissioner, is accused of issuing | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
edicts over things like payments over common grazing, and people's | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
backs are up about this, but how can he do that, surely the commissioners | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
have to decide. The commission should decide. It looks as though he | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
has been instrumental in pushing these issues forward. There are | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
three main issues. The first one was the payment by the grazing committee | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
to shareholders in common grazing is of money that had come into the | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
grazing funds. His argument was the money needed to be paid immediately | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
to the shareholders, and if monies were required back they would issue | :57:23. | :57:32. | |
a levy on to the shareholders. Nowhere in the Lord does it say | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
these payments had to be made, and indeed it didn't make logical or | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
common sense to deal with it that way. Subsequently there were two | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
other issues, one was that he was seeking to stop common grazing is | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
committees receiving funding, grants from the government to assist in the | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
maintenance of common grazing, and latterly there was an issue in | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
registration where it was being said that common grazing could not be VAT | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
registered whereas historically it always has been. What happened, at | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
some point, the commissioners had a vote of no-confidence? That was just | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
over a week ago, and that was on the back of Colin Kennedy walking out of | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
a meeting. He closed the meeting and walked out on the basis that the | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
commission from the Western Isles said he was no longer declaring an | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
interest in the Western Isles cases, which he previously did, and now | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
wanted to vote on any issues concerning the Western Isles. On the | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
face of it you would think if the commissioners have no-confidence in | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
has to go but he was elected. He was, and nothing in the law states | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
if the commissioners have a vote of no confidence he must go. One would | :58:48. | :58:54. | |
imagine that if all the commissioners are against you, if | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
imagine that if all the the Scottish cup Max crofting | :58:58. | :59:04. | |
Federation,, the NFU and the press are all saying it is time to go, it | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
you would think, what is the point in clinging on here? The Scottish | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
Government has threatened to get involved. What can they do? In terms | :59:13. | :59:19. | |
of the Crofters Scotland act 1993 they have the power if they consider | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
the Commissioner is unable or unfit to exercise the functions of the | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
member or unsuitable to continue as a Member, they can then remove a | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
Member from office. Just to give us a sense of what the background to | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
this is, because it is complicated, the issue underlining this, is it to | :59:41. | :59:43. | |
do with use of land and the fact that for example wind farms and | :59:44. | :59:50. | |
housing want to commend, and it is about whether common ground is | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
allocated to the community, funds from individuals... It is linked to | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
funds coming into common grazing. As you mentioned wind farming, in | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
recent times, the potential for larger sums of money to come into | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
common grazing exists and it is linked to distribution of those | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
monies. There an insistence on the part of the convener that those | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
monies be paid out as soon as received, with no ability to hold | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
onto the money and use it to spend on improvements within the common | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
grazing. The Scottish Government said that was not the correct view | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
at all. We have to leave it there, Brian Inkster, thank you very much. | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
Well, earlier I spoke to Colin Kennedy on the phone from Coll. | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
He is the Crofting Commission boss in the middle of this controversy. | :00:38. | :00:47. | |
Will you stay in the post? I have no intention of resigning. Why not? As | :00:48. | :01:00. | |
I understand, I believe the commission have acted wholly within | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
the law at all times, and until such times as we have legal advice to the | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
contrary, I will maintain my position. But the Scottish | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
Government has said it has the power to get involved. If it does and says | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
you have to go, you will have to go, won't you? That would be the case, | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
yes. So just to be clear, is the Scottish Government says, given your | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
commissioners have voted no confidence in you, we don't think | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
you can stay in post, you will have to resign? That may be the case. Why | :01:34. | :01:48. | |
are you so determined? You walked out of the meeting, didn't you, the | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
other week? Why have you fallen out with all the commissioners? I didn't | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
walk out, I formally declared the meeting closed in light of an | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
advancement by the Commissioner supported out by the Deputy | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
accountable officer that they obtain information from the standards | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
commission I requested site of, which failed to materialise. | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
Accordingly, given the nature of the business at hand, I have no | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
alternative other than to formally close the meeting of the Crofting | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
Commission -- I had no alternative. OK, but the commissioners have now | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
said they have no confidence in you which is not brilliant from your | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
point of view, is it? I am unaware of the commissioners saying they | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
have no confidence in me. You are not aware of that? Correct. So as | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
far as you are concerned, what, the Crofting Commission is carrying on | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
as per normal? I would suggest at this moment the Crofting Commission | :02:45. | :02:52. | |
conducted a meeting on the 28th of September which was in noncompliance | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
are accordance with standing orders of the Crofting Commission, | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
therefore in my view it would appear to be advisory. If they still have | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
confidence in you why would they do that? I couldn't compact comment on | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
what they do in an informal constitution. But they filed a | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
meeting without you for reasons which are inexplicable. Correct. The | :03:18. | :03:26. | |
substance of this is about... They allege you made various | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
determinations about things like payments in the form of edicts that | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
they weren't consulted on. Absolutely incorrect. At no time | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
under my leadership have any decisions being taken without full | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
endorsement of the board, and based on legal advice. And if I could | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
comment, that prior to those decisions, the board minister on | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
September 15, 2015, prior taking to those decisions, a formal request | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
was made to the chief executive to obtain legal advice to support the | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
papers presented to the board on which the board took the decision. | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
Colin Kennedy, we have to leave it, thank you for joining us. Thank you. | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
Now, four areas in Scotland have been selected to benefit | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
from a new funding programme designed to stimulate | :04:15. | :04:16. | |
The Scottish Government has allocated ?10 million to | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
the new Local Economic Development Fund, with the bulk of the money | :04:20. | :04:21. | |
When the financial crisis began in 2008, Hawick was quickly hit | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Like so many other towns across the country, its high street | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
Our reporter Cameron Buttle has been to Hawick to see | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
There is a saying here, a day out of Hawick is a day wasted. This is a | :04:35. | :04:51. | |
passionate Borders town, passionate about its great history, passionate | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
about tradition. But like so many other Scottish towns, its high | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
street is really struggling. I walked down -- walked down Hawick | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
high street this morning, 15 for sale or to let sign which gives you | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
an indication of the pressures we have in our high street today. And | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
there is a feeling something has to be done? Absolutely, there is a mood | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
for people to come to Hawick. People living in the town want to see it | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
regenerated, they want to see shops open and lights on. To help with | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
that the town has to get more than ?3 million for regeneration projects | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
from a new Scottish Government fund. I would like to see this money being | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
spent encouraging new start-ups. It is important we channelled this | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
money into encouraging people to start a new business. At the same | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
time we must try to spend some of that money on protecting existing | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
businesses as well. One new venture is the Hawick Paper, only eight | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
editions in, it is seen as the vote of confidence in the ability of a | :05:54. | :05:55. | |
town and its people to weather the of confidence in the ability of a | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
bad times. There is a great sense of history and community. I think there | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
are few places in Scotland with a sense of community Hawick has got. | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
It really helps the town recover from economic blows, but having said | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
that, it can only take you so far. There comes a point when you | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Government assistance to bring about some sort of recovery, and that's | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
what we have now. It has been a long time coming, you feel? Far too long. | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
I remember when Pringle shut, that was nine or ten years ago now, and | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
ever since, the town has been waiting and hoping for a new | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
industry to commit to Hawick and it has never happened. Too late? I | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
don't think is too late, we certainly have a workforce here in | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
Hawick who can turn their hand to most things, it is just getting that | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
new industry into the town. I know it's not easy but will make a hell | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
of a difference to the town. Four communities will benefit from the | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
Local Economic Development Fund, a total of ?10 million. Hawick will | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
get the most common web than ?3.5 million, Fife will get more than | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
?2.5 million, Clackmannanshire ?2 million and Irving more than ?1.5 | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
million. It is targeted money, but more widely we are trying to give a | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
stimulus to capital funding to get the economy going, and we would | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
certainly encourage the UK Government to do as much as it can | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
in the Autumn Statement to expand spending in the economy and drive | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
growth at this time. While the money has been welcomed, there are | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
concerns about the timescale of the funding allocation and its long-term | :07:43. | :07:43. | |
impact. Whatever they do how are we going to | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
ensure for example if business hubs are created I will be ensure that | :07:52. | :08:00. | |
they are funded in the long term to entice new industries to that time? | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
We could go into it scenario where the money is pumped into these hubs | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
but going forward who will pay to ensure that they are financed to | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
attract the new jobs and investment I think there are concerns about | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
whatever project are set how they are funded in the the long term. | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
whatever project are set how they Hawick there is a sense of hope that | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
they have been through the worst. And there are signs that some | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
businesses are doing well well from others living in. People in Hawick | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
have had their fair share of knock backs over the years. We are very | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
strong proud community. But when we see what is going on in commercial | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Road we have got a new Hotel that opened stores last week the signs | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
are encouraging. The seeds of prosperity are there but we need to | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
focus at this particular time on a high street and do what we can do | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
help the businesses. It's time to look back at the events | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
of the past week and see what's I'm joined now by the journalists | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
Lindsay McIntosh and Kevin McKenna. Let's talk about Europe. We are | :08:58. | :09:10. | |
supposed to have great clarity where we not this week because of the Tory | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
party conference. Is it any clearer? It is not. I like to Stephen's joke | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
about it being a dog's Brexit. But he does have a very good point. As | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
you say however many days at the Tory party conference and we seem to | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
have mixed messages about we seem to be heading towards a Hard Brexit but | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
the team to beat dissenting voices that the Tory party. It is unclear | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
whether legally or politically we need a boat at Westminster about the | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
type of Brexit we have. The one thing that is reasonably clear is | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
that the Scottish Parliament will not be able to block it they can | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
make an offer a lot of noise about it and store up a constitutional. | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
But, realistically they will not block at. We urge hearing the | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
arguments. Iain Duncan Smith seeing two and revealed that the single | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
market as part of Europe and we voted to leave Europe therefore we | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
voted to leave the single market. That was not during the referendum. | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
No. And it is not what Adam Tomkins with about ten minutes ago. It is | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
not been part of the aspirations of the Brexiteers since. It is as clear | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
as mud, and it all feeds into feeling of the that they | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
Conservatives are making it up as they go along on Brexit. But it is | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
great it is joy for the SNP. They are heading into a conference this | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
Thursday, their annual autumn conference in Glasgow where | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
previously they would have expected to come under some pressure from the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
fundamentalist wing as to when Nicola is going to announce the date | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
for a second referendum if that is what she wants to do. But this | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
basically right her speech and writes the speech for just about | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
every other Cabinet minister in Scotland how the Tories are in | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
abject confusion three months after the 23rd of June on what Brexit | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
means, when you can't even get the new people in the party agreeing | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
what the policy is what the discussions are going to be and for | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
heaven 's sake whether at they are going to have... Be able to debate | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
it or be able to vote on some parts of it and if they were what parts it | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
is an art confusion. I wonder if it is the case as Kevin suggests that | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
the pressure will be entirely of Nicola Sturgeon. Presumably there | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
will be a wing of the SNP saying that we want an independence | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
referendum and we wanted it now, or at least one it is going to be. I | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
think there is always going to be an element of the assembly that is | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
going to want a referendum tomorrow. But I think it is right that they | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
can over Brexit means there is a very clear line that Nicola Sturgeon | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
can take which is, look we do not know what the constitutional | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
position of the UK is going to be for at least two years come next | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
year so let's wait until we get some clarity before we hold another vote. | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
And we have seen some quite senior voices in the | :12:04. | :12:17. | |
SNP that are moving towards that position. You know, think that we | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
need to push those further down the road. Not least because they clearly | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
don't have the majority for it at the moment and it would be self | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
sabotage to go for it at the moment. Kevin, I get your point that it | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
takes the pressure of them on one sense but the event are just putting | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
them by, to some extent at the moment. There is all this debate is | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
not really involved in and they are left on the sidelines saying if we | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
do not get what we want we will have another independence referendum. Yes | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
they came out of the traps immediately after the 20. Nicola | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Sturgeon and her party Nicola Sturgeon looked very statesman-like. | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
She seemed to be offering leadership and she was talking about | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
independence and people in England were saying in the midst of all this | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
confusion this woman seems to know what she is doing this letter from | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
Scotland. But in three months that has the Volvo. You're absolutely | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
right. Where there is confusion at the upper echelons of the | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
Conservatives about Europe there seems to be a degree of confusion in | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
the same areas of the SNP as to how do we make something of this what... | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
How is this an opportunity for us to advance the case for independence? | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
And if so do we do it now or wait far closer to the day Mr Mark | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
useful, in that case Lindsay would be if they got some commitments from | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
anybody seen your in Europe on anything. They need lot of | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
commitments from anybody seen you in Europe to make anything happen there | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
and there was a big boost from Nicola Sturgeon are laid to try to | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
get those commitments and they do not seem to have been forthcoming. I | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
mean, let's be honest in Europe we have got a number of national | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
elections we have got Brexit Scotland is Lord down the list. | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
Thank you very much indeed. I'll be back at the | :13:56. | :13:57. | |
same time next week. | :13:58. | :14:01. |