29/01/2017 Sunday Politics South East

Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven

mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.

And in the South-East, we need more homes built

And is it ever possible to provide the housing needed

Should she have spoken out more strongly?

We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage

what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's

In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,

has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze

and why it doesn't apply to everybody.

And with me, the best and brightest political

panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia

They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that

Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven

President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,

Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from

where refugees are banned from until further notice.

Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban

on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.

Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out

But the ban has sparked protests across the US,

as people affected and already in the air were detained

US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many

At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked

about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...

Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'

The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy

on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number

of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.

Downing Street later issued a statement saying:

This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why

Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's

The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip

She wants to see the evidence, she wants

to understand precisely what the implications are.

She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with

President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and

understand it, and then will respond to that.

I think there are times where, you know, there's always

pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.

The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it

We're joined now from North London by the Conservative

Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more

vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David

just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an

appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I

wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects

our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it

is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with

Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but

she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism

about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in

Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street

spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have

not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of

criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,

so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I

wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the

moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address

things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the

hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you

like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is

about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she

should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would

have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald

Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to

understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with

the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would

engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day

temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority

population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the

biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this

temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is

wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through

and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.

It can't be right that a president in that position of power can

arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already

been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach

I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by

this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?

I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by

this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are

desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by

this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only

because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it

is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do

you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is

the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work

with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was

that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our

country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is

the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate

within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,

but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,

should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a

great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of

Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the

protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I

believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have

achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a

number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am

inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege

of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places

where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the

right place. Thank you for joining us.

Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald

Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,

particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going

to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on

every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa

May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time

to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.

When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and

can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying

more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing

Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going

to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's

going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It

does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special

relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven

wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.

You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for

American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what

Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why

I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has

implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was

campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real

Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the

executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a

class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day

limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,

President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.

Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in

recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with

Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned

been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not

included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in

such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal

thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It

is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge

in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue

for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree

with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa

May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is

reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is

nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with

him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time

now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee

policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as

well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this

anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she

says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.

These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does

something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her

administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical

situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in

the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.

We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless

communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for

large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't

excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via

Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible

excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than

many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with

the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of

Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is

already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't

know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky

situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first

foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit

was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,

keen for a new trading relationship with the United States

in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated

the new US President for his "stunning election victory"

but might not have intended to be pictured walking

through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping

Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade

will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President

told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister

said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries

increased their defence spending It's been announced

that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,

with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead

to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as

Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's

going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear

to Donald Trump her continued

backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over

the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer

to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues

that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former

Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's

decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the

United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which

appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He

was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to

protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven

countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if

he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just

look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela

Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,

look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all

of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria

literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in

virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have

been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of

a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of

persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But

you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you

said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing

Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees

into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.

He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those

comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's

policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is

fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this

country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any

terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have

been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have

been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why

would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people

that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into

Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not

for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening

process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with

the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to

America, they then go through biometric screening, database

screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence

agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It

is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we

have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald

Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and

then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned

he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since

you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing

you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not

asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you

take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,

of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in

terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say

it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the

world have not been included in this. The point is they have made

this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about

the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him

to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you

feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total

ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that

what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be

talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We

will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What

advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa

May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the

Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been

surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who

say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make

it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can

be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister

who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally

herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial

president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building

a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking

of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is

controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke

in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it

is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the

British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I

think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in

her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato

members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there

is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the

Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms

of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good

as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying

this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control

immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good

speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I

could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying

things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have

a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can

see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a

priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French

elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I

worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress

and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.

What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say

OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough

stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a

deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot

sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,

we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,

maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until

we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will

find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and

countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that

will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the

Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you

agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.

If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you

approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any

political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,

there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip

loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,

they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and

I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that

says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen

to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the

Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over

this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition

will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's

best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of

Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to

fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.

If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,

there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always

been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't

it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it

does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and

Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for

being with us. It's just gone 11.25,

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll

be talking to our political panel. I'm Natalie Graham and this

is the Sunday Politics Coming up later, we need the houses

but where should they go? We are going to visit one corner

of Kent where a whole Join me today is the Conservative MP

for Folkestone and Hythe and chairman of the Commons Select

Committee for Culture Media and

Sport, Damian Collins. The squeeze on council budgets means

less money is going from local authorities to fund theatres,

galleries and museums. It has fallen by 20%

across England since 2010. That is according to a recent

report by the Select The report also said that more

needed to be done to address the imbalance in the money

the Arts Council gives out. London gets half of all

Arts Council funding. The South-East gets the least

per head of population. So, Damian, as a Kent MP,

did the findings of the report I think it reflected

trends we have seen. We know there is pressure on local

authority budgets and some councils But the Arts Council money that

comes from central government has been maintained and the government

recognised in many ways it is a false economy to cut arts

spending because it is not only important for culture,

but we know in the South-East it is very important for economic

regeneration, tourism, and supporting the broader

creative industries as well. And yet it has dropped

quite sharply here by 20% because of local authority

funding and that is the biggest single source of funding

for the cultural sector. So that is a worrying

trend, isn't it? The local authority funding has come

down, the Arts Council not. But if you look at successful arts

projects here what you see is partnership and that was the lesson

from the report. The arts is not delivered

by local authorities, but local authorities

play a role as partners. Partnering with organisations

like the Creative Foundation That is private money coming in,

it is relying on private money to come in alongside

the Arts Council. The lesson from this is that

successful arts organisations producing great work

here in the South-East and across the country have those

partnerships in place - private funding, some

local authority money It sounds like you are not worried,

then, about this trend The fact that it has fallen by 20%

and we know budgets are going to be What we have to look

at is that we know those financial pressures exist in local

authorities, so what is The government is keeping

its money in, but successful partnerships, working with local

arts organisations and encouraging

private investment too, We look at the success in Margate

of Turner Contemporary, the Creative Foundation,

the galleries, we see those We want to share best practice

where that is happening. We saw across the country great

examples of these cultural networks, often supported by local

authorities, but at arms length. They engage with the community

and work with others as well. It goes back to the point

I raised at the beginning about this imbalance

in funding from the Arts Council, why has the government

allowed that to happen? The Arts Council funds

lots of the major museums and galleries that

happen to be in London. One of the things that we said

in the report is that the condition of funding they should do more work

in the regions through partnerships, that could be touring exhibitions

that has been seen in Folkestone, for example, they take live

streams of performances at the National Theatre in London,

this any world cinema and Ashford. They do live streaming

from the Royal Shakespeare We see more of those kinds

of cultural collaborations with the money that may go

international institutions We also said is that as funding

for the arts increases through the Arts Council,

thatt increase should go That is the change

we would like to see. The Housing Minister says

it is a unique opportunity to boost the local economy,

jobs and provide new homes. Campaigners say it is

an overwhelming tide Two very different views of plans

to build a brand-new There is no doubt that new homes

are needed in the South-East, Our reporter has been

to a village to gauge the mood. This was a protest against plans

for new development in Shepway, including the proposal for a garden

time made up of Hundreds of people took

to the streets of Hythe in the summer, before definite plans

were drawn up. That strength of feeling remains

amongst these campaigners who lives They live near the

proposed new town. They fear such a large number

of new homes will destroy the countryside, historic sites,

and ultimately their way of life. They are joining forces

to fight the plans. I get mad when people

accuse me of nimbyism. I feel passionately about the fact

that there are people in this country who need housing,

I have members of my own family who cannot get

on the housing ladder. It is precisely because this

development will not address the issue that I'm so passionately

opposed to it. The notion that there is support

for those proposals is unproven. Within the village,

there is opposition to it. The opposition is not

because it is providing housing, no one is saying that we do not need

houses, its is the sheer scale and juggernaut

that is being thrown at this. We are in danger of losing

places that are special. The proposed new town covers a large

area south of the M20, including the former

Folkestone racecourse. You can see up to 12,000 new homes

along with community facilities as well as commercial space,

new schools and GP surgeries. There is a huge shortage

of homes in the south-east. Experts estimate that we need

to build around 53,000 new homes every year until 2020

to meet the demand. The government looks set

to make housing a major But will the drive to build more

homes prompted a backlash from core Conservative voters

in the constituencies The scheme has received government

backing and the leader of Shepway District Council believes

that large developments like this, that allowed the council to plan

properly for services, Do you not take on any

of the concerns of people Of course I take on their concerns,

but I'll still have the concerns of all those who need the jobs

and homes in the future. Everybody has to recognise

there is a problem on housing so everybody across the whole

country has to take their We will be doing as the government

requires us to do, under their rules There will be multi-tenure

in what we are building, there will be homes for rent,

there will be self build, there will be shared equity,

there will be lots of opportunities But the County Council has

a very different view. There is still a lot

of detail to come. But forgive residents

for being very sceptical of these sorts of promises because you see

time and time again with these developments, we are a crowded

part of the country, we have a lot of infrastructure

already, we are water stressed as it is, our roads are gridlocked

a lot of the time, our health and social services are at breaking

point, you have to ask The communities not

being listened to. This is development by diktat

rather than consensus. So far nothing has

been set in stone. The council is drawing up a master

plan and has started Will any amount of discussion

with the communities affected reduce their opposition to such

large-scale development or world their concerns be outweighed

by the need for more Joining us now is the director

of the Kent branch for the campaign for the protection of rural

England here in Newport. I know you share many of

the concerns raised in that report. Assuming that we do need

to build 53,000 homes a year for the next five years,

how do we go about it? CPRE is all about positive planning

and really good place making. But Shepway has already got

a thousand homes lined up plan and we feel that this

is creating a pool that is good to drive yet more

household growth in an area I can understand why the locals

feel so disenfranchised Damian, you represent

many of those locals. As we heard in that report,

it is the scale of the development that is upsetting people and people

who in many cases voted for you as a Conservative

and the local Conservative council. 30% of the land was marked out

in your film will be green space. That will mean that there are green

spaces between the existing villages This scheme will be

delivered over 30 years, But nearly all of that

land is green space now. But it is also right next

to a railway station and a motorway junction,

so the heavy infrastructure you would need to support this

development is already in place. What we want to do is consult

with the community about how We need the jobs, we need

the infrastructure, we need the houses, and we have a

site that is right next to a motorway junction,

right next to a railway station that can deliver huge economic investment

that will benefit all residents But it is not just Shepway,

other parts of the south-east are facing similar dilemmas

and it is antagonising Has there been a calculation

here by the government that because this is a safe Conservative

area, you can afford This proposal has been brought

forward by the council, they have gone to the government

saying that we believe that this site next to junction 11

of M20 would be suitable It has come from the council

they are now consulting There is a large area

of land for jobs. If a big employer wanted to come

to the Shepway area and bring high-quality jobs we don't have any

big sites for them. It is about the jobs

as well as the houses. We are hearing about

the infrastructure and the jobs That is one of the

concerns you raise. The point is that Shepway Council

has been democratically elected and they have a duty to provide

these houses, don't they? They have a duty to provide

for the objectively We know that the site was put

forward by Shepway Council in their last local plan,

two or three years ago. It was soundly rejected

by an independent inspector is being I just feel that this

is a step too far in an area So where should the 53,000

homes that we need to build on the south-east

in the next year go? We should be focussing on those

places that have already got the planning permissions,

where we can actually direct the homes that we need

to where they will regenerate towns, to where they will regenerate

villages and small market towns. We should not be building on huge

expanses of what is increasingly I have heard from government

about doing this. Wouldn't it be better

if the government pulled its finger out and made sure we could build

on land authority had planning permission,

that developers are sitting on, and then we would not have

problems like this. There are sites in Shepway

where that land is being used, but the order of magnitude

and the number of homes that we need is huge,

such right writing really get these bigger schemes that we plan over 30

years, that annex and the big heavy A lot of young people

in the district who heard about these plans say,

I want a job and I want somewhere to live and I want somewhere

I can afford to live. For young people and people on lower

incomes, the biggest cost they pay they pay is housing costs

and that is because those We need more volume,

more units to be created, and jobs will be created

for young people who will We're still waiting

for the government to publish its White Paper,

was meant to come out at the end of this month that we're

still waiting for it. Some of the language used

by ministers talking about turbo-charging house-building,

accelerating development, Why do you think they are using that

sort of tone of language? I want to see a revolution

in house-building in this country to make homeownership realistic

and affordable for most And if that means upsetting people,

building on green fields that already exist in your constituency,

you're happy with that? You have to look at key

sites that would work. There are concerns being raised

by local residents who live There are also people

in our film that oppose every We really hope we can see changes

in the planning system in The White Paper that mean

that we are doing what planning should do, protecting the green

spaces and delivering. Now it is time for some of the other

news you may have missed this week The leader of Kent County Council

has written to the Home Office to ask for more money to help cover

the costs of unaccompanied child Paul Carter says by the end of this

year the council will be looking after over a thousand asylum seekers

are now adults. A leading environmental lawyer

is challenging a council for selling of 3000 acres of its downland estate

after residents The land might be bought

by an investment fund The council says the farms

will remain farms and the footpath and downland will continue to be

open to the public. And four councils in Kent have

confirmed that they are going to consider the business case

for a merger before a final decision can be taken the public will need

to be involved and approval will be required from the

Secretary of State. If plans are approved,

it would see the district councils of Canterbury,

Dover, Shepway and Thanet, Quick question, does it

concern you that councils are selling off their land

because of budget cuts? OK, I know it concerns the CPRE,

but that is all we have time My thanks to both my

guests, Damian Collins Julia will be back here next week

with all the political news and chat air-pollution. Thank you for being

here. Welcome back and let's get back

to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven

mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,

Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK

should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong

for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be

challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should

come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.

Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long

term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going

to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be

anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe

territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until

summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people

coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees

from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on

Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in

mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world

that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when

it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the

civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500

Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a

hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,

although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is

discovering that being a president is different from being a business

man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a

backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss

with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,

and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial

ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any

opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the

streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an

international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit

are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have

suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you

have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal

Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who

would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one

subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in

front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.

Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played

host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we

have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how

serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often

are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still

won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place

in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the

opposite the next day. Brown did the same.

Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide

because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on

the major government, even though their position on the single

currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of

leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to

dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over

Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,

but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in

danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political

conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we

are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that

vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would

have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece

of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial

world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to

worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the

legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a

big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year

is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely

hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an

incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you

politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've

already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You

have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to

stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,

and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we

have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if

it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will

be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said

regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU

citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get

through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all

know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it

won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with

those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but

the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's

already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU

governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit

for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it

through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey

through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has

been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there

will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of

the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and

see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means

unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s

when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony

Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in

or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.

But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this

week. The Daily Politics is back

tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here

on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics. a free five-a-side tournament

that's for everyone. For more information,

go to the Get Inspired website.