29/01/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

So, what do you do when the President of the United States

grabs you by the hand and starts to squeeze?

You keep gamely smiling on,

remembering your inner vicar's daughter.

There may be quite a lot of brave smiling still to come.

And with everybody arguing about Trump's latest act -

a ban on millions of Muslims entering the US -

I'm joined by Cabinet Minister David Gauke

to talk about that and this week's Brexit votes in the Commons,

subjects too for the Leader of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron

in our latest 2017 leader's interview.

And that Labour veteran, one-time leader Harriet Harman

will be looking back at 30 years in politics.

There's going to be a Labour rebellion this week,

I'll also be joined by one of the men

Donald Trump wants to ban from travelling to America.

He was born in Iraq and yes, he's political.

But as Theresa May may recall, he's also a Conservative MP.

I've been talking to the actor Matthew McConaughey.

You may remember him as a bit of a Hollywood hunk,

but in his new film he looks appalling, playing, quite

An international feel to our review of the news.

I'm joined by former Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis,

former British ambassador in Washington

and to keep us all in order, Amanda Platell of the Daily Mail.

All that after the news, read this morning by Ben Thompson.

Downing Street has issued a statement saying Theresa May does

"not agree" with Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees

and that she would study the impact on British citizens.

The Prime Minister has faced criticism for not condemning the US

President's actions during her trip to Turkey yesterday.

President Trump has refused entry to citizens of seven mainly Muslim

countries and suspended the US refugee programme for four months,

Donald Trump says his ban on foreign nationals travelling to America

from seven Muslim countries is, in his words,

But the order has provoked protests at airports across the country.

Inside, lawyers worked to free passengers being detained.

Some were already on their way in when the president made the order.

a 60-year-old Iranian-American broke down after learning his brother,

who'd come to visit him, wasn't going to be allowed in.

In Iran, they do something like this,

but we didn't know we're going to have the same situation here.

And my brother didn't do nothing wrong, no prison.

On the election trail, Donald Trump suggested what he said

of Muslims entering the United States.

He denies the measures he has now brought in,

which include suspending the entire refugee programme,

It's working out very nicely, and we're going to have a very,

very strict ban and we're going to have extreme vetting,

which we should have had in this country for many years.

But campaigners have already launched a series of legal actions

to block his plans and a judge has now temporarily halted

moves to deport people travelling with visas

With immigration central to Donald Trump's campaign

Living standards are likely to fall this year, according to a report

The think tank claims a mini-boom between 2014 and 2016 has now ended.

The organisation warns that household incomes are now growing

at their slowest rate since 2013 because of rising inflation

French voters will choose today who is to be the socialist candidate

Benoit Hamon - who was sacked from the government in 2014 -

won the first round of the selection process.

He's seen as a left wing rebel and he faces the former prime

Wildfires in Chile have killed at least 11 people and left

Firefighters and volunteers have been tackling more than a hundred

separate fires in southern and central Chile, half

Police have detained more than 20 people suspected of arson.

Princes William and Harry have announced plans to put up

a new statue of their mother, Diana, Princess of Wales,

The princes said the monument would mark her "positive impact"

They said they would help pay for the statue, which will be placed

in the grounds of her former home of Kensington Palace.

I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.

The atmosphere in the Observer newsroom is reaching boiling point.

We catch the week, they are taking their editorials and putting them in

big type on the front page. Here is this week's. Trump cannot be trusted

- he is like nothing that has gone before. He is ignorant, prejudiced

and vicious in ways that no American leader has been. We know what they

think. And they have caught Theresa May's overnight statement, saying

she does not agree with the ban on migrants. Lots of tabloids are going

on the Diana story, perhaps in relief at something lighter to go

on. The Sunday Telegraph has interestingly put the camper van at

the bottom of the front page, rather unimpressed by it. A beautiful

photograph of Sir John Hurt and a story about the Troubles inquiry.

The Sunday Times has a different Trump story. They say Trump and

Prince Charles are in a climate row. When President Trump comes to the

UK, he doesn't want to meet Prince Charles because he doesn't want to

be lectured about climate change, it says. They are also following up

their Trident story from last week. There is also a story about the

transgender lobby getting their way in the NHS so that we can't call

pregnant patients mothers any more, it claims. We will talk about that

and much more. First of all, Sir Christopher Wren, a man who has seen

the Anglo-American relationship up close -- Sir Christopher Meyer. What

do you make of the coverage and would you make of Theresa May's

demeanour? The coverage has been good for her. If I was in Downing

Street, I would be pleased with the way the story has been written up.

She had a very narrow tightrope to walk to make this visit successful

to Washington, and she walked it pretty well. She was able to invest

some new substance into the schmaltzy concept of a special

relationship. She got warm words on trade and the special relationship

and on Nato. Nato was a big win. To have Donald Trump said he was 100%

behind the organisation means it is less toxic about trying to improve

relationships with Putin. Trump was being nasty about Nato, but nice

about Putin. The Sunday Times also gives Theresa May some good

coverage, in your view. It gives her very good coverage indeed. It thinks

she has been extremely clever not only in the way she dealt with

Trump, but in her speech to the Republican convention the night

before, which led out her prospectus, a lot of which was

critical of Trump. And you have the New York Times on your iPad, I will

let you hunt for that. They have picked up the overnight story about

Theresa May saying she is against this ban on Muslim countries. This

shows that if you are Theresa May, you have to realise you will get

surprises out of Donald Trump. You may think the fix is in during your

visit, but then when you are in Turkey, up comes this thing. She was

slightly caught off guard. Amanda, you have a splash in the Mail on

Sunday. Yes, some months ago, when Brexit happened, if you had told me

that Prime Minister Theresa May would be having her hand squeezed by

President Donald Trump, I would have said you are barking, and there it

is for us all to see. Most extraordinary. It surprised a lot of

people who didn't think she had it in her. She has extraordinary

support. And this is a new word for us. It is a very apt term for one of

his ailments, bathmophobia. It comes from the Greek word for gradient. He

has a fear of gradualism. This is extremely apt for this man. Fear of

going downstairs All Blacks? Fear of slopes. This is relevant because

this is allegedly why he grabbed Theresa May by the hand. He wanted

help going down the stairs. Here's a bit too tactile. My fear is that

when he comes for the royal visit, you will grab the Queen's hand. My

lord, what will happen then? But all the Queen has to do is avoid

staircases and gradients. I don't know which is better. Does he grabs

Theresa May out of affection, or does he grab her because he fears he

is going to fall over? The latter is better. It is too intimate. They are

like lovers. Too many hands. Let's move on. Would the papers managed to

get the Theresa May overnight statement? The only one I saw was

the Observer. But going back to what you were saying about the support

from the papers. Tony Parsons, famous columnist, lifelong Labour

supporter, he has done his whole column in the Sun saying we should

all be glad that Trump is in the White House. It is very supportive.

It is saying we have to do deals with this man. I would never have

expected that. Even more astonishing is that the Labour supporting Sunday

Mirror says of Theresa May, the date went well. She is on a roll. We all

saw that awkward moment in the Turkish press conference where she

was asked three times whether she supported Muslim bands. She's so

cautious. You have interviewed her. Her default position is caution. The

statement overnight said she did not support the ban. But it was very

calmly and quietly expressed. And of course, Yanis, all of these

negotiations are about hard business deals. You have taken a story from

the Observer about the ?100 million fighter jet deal. The Turks are

going to build their own fighter jets, but they will be made in the

UK. The most astonishing part about this is the very low price. 100

million is nothing. To sell your soul to the devil, sell it at a good

price. Do you regard Erdogan as the devil? I regard the Turkish regime

to be increasingly nasty. The fact that you have special police forces

entering the editorial offices of newspapers, and driving journalists

out at gunpoint to change the headlines for the next morning, is

something you should be worried about. It is not usual that people

are concerned about journalists, so that is nice to hear. If we allow

something like this to happen while business proceeds as if as usual,

then we are all going to be doing a great deal of harm to our own

societies. A question for you all. It has been said that after Brexit,

Britain so badly needs to do deals with other countries around the

world that we can no longer speak plainly, we have to be a bit

mealy-mouthed when it comes to people like Donald Trump or

President Erdogan, or the Saudis and the Chinese. Is there anything in

this? There is a cartoon to that effect. The cartoon is brilliant.

Theresa May is typically taking an extremely pragmatic transactional

attitude towards British foreign policy. There are things we need to

do, and we cannot afford the luxury of interfering in other people's

internal affairs by stating whether we approve or disapprove on human

rights grounds or ethical grounds on things they are doing. She has said

she disagrees with what Donald Trump is doing. But more particularly,

given that Nadhim Zahawi is coming on later, she has said that where

British dual nationals are accepted by -- affected by this, Britain will

stand up for them. Yanis, you have also picked up the Labour rebellion

this week in the Observer. We have the Article 50 legislation required

now in the House of Commons, and Labour MPs are trying to amend it,

some of them to stop us triggering article 50. For the benefit of full

disclosure, I campaigned in this country against Brexit. But having

said that, article 15 must be supported by anyone who believes in

democracy. -- article 50. We fought this referendum and lost and we have

to accept it. The focus now has to fall on the interim agreement. If

Labour MPs are serious about maintaining the essence that is

significant regarding the relationship between this country

and the European Union, this is what they should focus on, not the

triggering of article 50. How can you say to the people in northern

England, you voted, and we are going to do to you what Brussels did to

the Irish? Remember, with the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish voted against and

that they were asked to vote once more until they got it right. They

should be focusing on the fact that there is no mandate from the

referendum for ending freedom of movement, for ending the customs

union. This is all stuff that should be discussed. There was an implied

mandate. This is your view, but the Labour side should argue against it.

The strongest argument for Brexit from where I am sitting is restoring

national sovereignty to the House of Commons. Well, restore it. Say that

the next House of Commons which will be fought in an election that will

give a mandate to numbers of Parliament to have this discussion

will decide what the interim agreement will be, or what comes

after it. But to say that the 23rd of June has already settled the

issue, that freedom of movement is no longer an issue, that it has been

settled, that is something that does not lose out of the 23rd of June

edition. I don't think Theresa May is in any

hurry to have a snap election. Tom Watson. This is extraordinary, we

have seen two more Shadow Cabinet members resign at the weekend and

Tom Watson is saying, don't worry, if you resign from the shadow job we

will have you back in a few months' time and it is just extraordinary.

You are a rebel with a cause, then when you don't have the course you

come straight back in again but that's because they have so few

people in the Shadow Cabinet anyway. Another big story, Jackie Kennedy in

the Telegraph, everybody will be watching this film over the next few

weeks. It is a sweet story, coinciding with the film Jackie,

which reveals that after the assassination of JFK, his widow

Jackie Kennedy decided that she would not accept the offer of

marriage by the then British ambassador, and she wrote him a very

sweet but slightly mysterious card in response to this offer of

marriage, saying, "I wish I could give you the most precious thing

that belonged to him, as precious as your friendship was to him nothing

tangible could ever expressed that so please access this with all of my

love." That was the bulk of poems. It is very suspicious. I've never

got any kind of message like that from the White House. Amanda, we

have to keep cracking on but there is the other story of the Diana

statue. All of the tabloids, almost, have this across the front page,

with photographs. It is a big year for William and Harry of course.

Yes, and it appears they will get highly involved in celebrating the

anniversary of her death. For those who liked, loved or respected Diana,

there is an old train in Hyde Park which was disclosed to and a

disservice to her memory and I'm glad they are doing it. Yanis, you

have disposed of your monarchy. We sent them to you. And Prince Charles

will give them a lecture on climate change, if they come over. This is

perhaps the most significant topic, and would be a major blow to

humanity's prospects. So, who does Donald Trump

really want to keep out of America with this new ban,

already being challenged Well, one example is my next guest,

Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi, who has made his anger and upset

clear on social media overnight. First of all, why are you banned

from America as you understand it? Because as the order says, aliens

from this country include people whose country of origin would have

been Iraq, as is mine. I was born in Baghdad. Last year when the visa for

free travel was taken away from dual nationals the advice on the US

embassy was to go for an interview so my wife and I both had to go. It

was uncomfortable but understandable because clearly the United States

needed to tighten up its immigration policy and of course visa

restrictions as part of that. I was granted a ten year visa after the

interview, as was my wife, and our sons are university in America so we

need to travel there by -- quite a bit. How does it make you feel that

Donald Trump doesn't want you in America? I don't think I have felt

as discriminated as when I was in little school. For the first time in

my life last night I felt discriminated against, it is

demeaning, it is sad. One of my sons had a life-threatening illness last

year, spent two months in hospital in Princeton University Hospital but

we couldn't have travelled if we were going through the same thing

now. There are many other human stories that we have been hearing

about from the community in the UK, and thereafter thousands of people

who were born in Iraq, either Kurdish or are or any other ethnic

group, who are now British citizens. We are equal as British citizens,

and I'm proud that Stratford maven voted in Nadhim Zahawi as a member

of Parliament. And your passport says that Her Majesty 's government

will look after us abroad, as does mine, so it is down to the British

government to fight on behalf of British citizens? I'm reassured by

Theresa May's statement because she clearly says she will make a

representation on behalf of every citizen. I am a politician, it is

the people who don't have the platform that I have who could get

stuck in an airport for hours with no for their own. They should be

looked after. You made your displeasure clear, tweeting a

wonderful quote of Winston Churchill. An appeaser is one who

feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. You talking about?

Anyone who turns the other way. I don't think we should look away when

President Trump makes a mistake. Theresa May made it very clear in

that brilliant speech to Congress, when she talked about going after

the ideology of Daesh, not just on the battlefield but the ideology.

This plays into the ideology. It is counter-productive. It flings petrol

on the fire. Think about the refugees, put aside my position but

the refugees from Syria and elsewhere. America has been the

cradle of humanity and care and freedom for them in the past. The

message to them today is you are not welcome and that is cruel. You must

have watched the press conference in Turkey where Theresa May was asked

three times she condemned the American decision and she didn't

reply, how did that make you feel? My Prime Minister quite rightly was

being cautious. It was developing story. I didn't know any details

until late yesterday that this would apply to myself and my wife. I think

her being careful is a good thing, but she was also very candid with

President Trump. She spoke very candidly and clearly in that speech

to both houses when she talked about us making this an opportunity to

lead the world. Dare I say even President Trump can think again on

this. At the moment he is due to come to this country and address

both Houses of Parliament, including yourself. Do you think Parliament

should think again on that? I'm hoping he will reconsider this

position, it is hugely discriminatory. US law doesn't allow

for discrimination by nationality or religion so I hope you will

reconsider this, and it is counter-productive in the fight

against Daesh. I hope you will reconsider. Thank you for coming to

talk to us today. Absolutely nothing positive

to say about it this week. This is surely

the nadir of the year. Things can only get

better...they better had. Chris Fawkes is in

the weather studio. The important thing to remember is I

am not to blame. Some have had a glorious start to the day, this was

the scene in Aberdeenshire, showing the sunrise a little over an hour

ago. For many, it is a drive morning. We have rain coming into

southern Wales and south-west England but there is uncertainty how

far north it will spread. Across the north east Midlands, East Anglia,

the rain perhaps not arriving here until after dark. Those clear skies

overnight will allow temperatures to get away with the risk of ice

returning. The northern England and Wales a lot of cloud, drizzle, mist

and hill fog patches, and with those murky conditions it is mild in

Plymouth with frozen conditions again in the north. We are looking

at a gloomy picture for tomorrow, patchy rain working into Wales and

south-west England as we go through Monday afternoon. The best of any

sunshine across Scotland and north-east England, and that sets

the scene for what will be quite an unsettled week of weather. Low

pressure is in charge, bringing spells of rain, becoming windy

intentionally with severe gales, but often it will be on the mild side.

With that, it is back to you, Andrew.

If you are not to blame, I guess the deity is.

My next guest has been at the heart of Labour politics

The ecstatic highs and the crashing lows, triumphs and disasters,

Harriet Harman - an MP since 1982 and a former Cabinet minister

She's best known, perhaps, for her passionate commitment

She's about to publish her political memoir, A Woman's Work,

Speaking of women at work, what did you make of Theresa May and the

delicate line she had to tread in Washington, cosying up to Donald but

also keeping their distance from him? It was important as a British

Prime Minister that she was over there to meet the new president but

I was apprehensive because we know that Donald Trump is misogynist,

xenophobic, he stands against so many of what I think we now regard

as British values so I was very dismayed when I saw her holding his

hand. There is a special relationship but she has got to be

strong in that relationship, not led by him, and of course I was

horrified when he announced this ban on people from Muslim countries.

Three times, she said, it is nothing to do with me. It is to do with us,

as we all know. She obviously has to be careful as Prime Minister but she

needs to be strong as well. I was really disappointed, I hope she has

learned some lessons. She has said overnight that she is against this

policy. But she has got to learn that she has got to stand up for

things and not be cautious and come out against something when she is

pushed. The problem is that because we are in a vulnerable position

economically, looking free trade deals with other countries, that

must not make her feel weak. She has still got to be politically strong

despite the fact we are in a moment of economic vulnerability. It is a

difficult tightrope to walk because we do need these deals. Basically

she can rethink what I regard as a reckless distancing our economy from

the economies of Europe and she needs to rethink that because of

Donald Trump's protectionism. Let's talk about your book, A Woman's

Work, and you charge your story going forward, in the early years

you experienced some gross sexism, some dreadful moments. There's been

headlines about a story that happened to you as a young student

at York University. What happened? I was called in by my tutor, and he

said, you are borderline 2:1, 2:2, but it will be a 2:2 unless you have

sex with me. I was horrified and I ran off. The idea that men in

positions of authority who can actually shape your future life can

actually abuse their power for sex and that I didn't even say anything

to anybody about it because I thought nobody would listen to what

I said, that he would deny it, they would take his side, he was in a

position of authority. That was par for the course then, and that is

still a battle we have got to fight now. He is now dead, his widow is

dubious about this and says she doesn't believe it could happen and

so forth. I haven't said anything about it until now because it was

horrible, and I was risking... I had earned that level of Mark, why

should I be downgraded if I didn't... It was a threat. I said it

happened now, having not said anything about it before, because I

think we need to look at how we make sure those people who are put in

that position feel able to complain and those who do that are held to

account so I'm telling you, it happened. The idea that somehow I

would invent it, why would I? Let's move further forward. You talk about

the early years in the House of Commons, a very macho, beery late

night atmosphere. You fight your way up, become Secretary of State and

then comes the pivotal moment in your career, you stand for election

as deputy leader and slightly to your surprise you become deputy

leader. You think it is a great triumph, then you walk off the

podium and meet the former leader, John Prescott, what happens next? I

said to him as I was walking onto the stage to be pronounced as deputy

leader, I hope I can count on your advice and your help as I become

deputy leader. He had been deputy leader himself for ten years. He

said, no, I won't help you. That is a pity but what it was... You have

been elected deputy leader over Alan Johnson, the nearest rival, and all

previous deputy leaders would become Deputy Prime Minister, and Gordon

Brown didn't make you Deputy Prime Minister, why do you think that was?

He should have done. And looking back, I should have made him,

because it is important for a party of equality which had never had a

woman Prime Minister to at least have a woman Deputy Prime Minister.

But the story in my book is my story, but it is also the story of

the whole of the women's movement, the irresistible force of the

women's movement reaching the immovable object of power, and we

did make changes. And you say in the same period, you were pushed to the

end of the Cabinet table, that attempt to push women to one side

still going on at the top of the Labour Party, even after you had had

your success being elected there. Do you think there is still residual

sexism across all parties at the top? I think there is. We have made

great progress with 100 Labour women MPs that changed the face of

politics, which changed Parliament and government. But there was still

a struggle, as there is now. We shouldn't be complacent, because

there is a backlash and there are those who never agreed with the

progress we have made and who wants to turn the clock back. And that

kind of virus of misogyny that is coming from the States with Trump,

we have to stand up against that. We have further to go before we are

truly equal. The last thing we want is to be pushed back. We have some

very outspoken female Conservative MPs from your part of the country,

saying they are not going to - or other Labour MPs, like tulips are

Dick and others, saying they will not vote for article 50. Much to my

regret, I fought hard for us to remain. But we lost the referendum

and the important thing is to accept that and to move on and to argue

about the terms on which we go forward. This is a dangerous moment

in terms of the negotiations and we need to make sure we have is close

ties as possible with Europe and don't cut ourselves off

economically. So you would say to Labour MPs from strongly pro-Remain

constituencies, hold your nose and vote to trigger article 50, whatever

you think, because that is the democratic thing to do? I would say,

accept that result. When you are in opposition, very often, there are

only bad choices and it is one of those situations. My constituency

voted to remain, but actually, I think they recognise that we lost

that vote in June. We now need to make the best of the situation we

are in and that means voting for article 50, but then try to make

sure the terms are as least worst as possible. Harriet Harman, thanks for

coming in to talk to us. Now with news of what's coming up

straight after this programme, Join us at ten in Glasgow, when we

will be asking if Scotland is still owed a say over Brexit. Then

universal basic income - should we all get money from the state? And in

this city which profited from the slave trade, should today's

generation make amends for its past? See you at ten on BBC One.

A little after midnight this morning, a modest,

almost apologetic message popped into the inbox of almost everyone

It came from Number Ten and said what the Prime Minister wasn't able

to say in public yesterday, that the British Government

does not agree with Donald Trump's travel ban.

David Gauke is Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

The Prime Minister said it was wrong. Why is it wrong? Well, it is

divisive. Theresa May, when she was Home Secretary, said this when the

policy was announced by candidate Trump, that it is divisive. There

are all sorts of practical difficulties with it. I have

enormous sympathy with those who are affected by it. And obviously, there

is a particular concern as Nadhim Zahawi was pointing out, to have

emerged over the course of yesterday with the implications it may have

for British nationals. He also said that this would pour petrol on the

flames of Muslim extremism and have exactly the opposite result to what

Donald Trump wanted. Do you agree? I think there are real risks with it

being counter-productive. It is worth pointing out that we don't

have that policy. We wouldn't contemplate going down the route of

a ban in this way. We have a very different approach to it. So we

disagree with your position President Trump has set out. What

happens now? We have the British nationals engaged and so forth. Are

we going to make representations to defend the interests of British

people caught up in this? Yes, we will representations where British

nationals are caught up with this. We clearly have a role to play in

terms of representing them, and we have made that clear. This is an

indication of why it is important that we have a relationship with the

new president. It is worth appreciating that if we are to have

influence, the Americans are an important partner for us on

international security and on the economy and we need to have

influence. So what was going on in that notorious Turkish press

conference, do you think? As Home Secretary, as you say, she has been

following this story for a long time. Then this big announcement

comes and causes outrage around the world, and she can't feel she can

say anything in public about it. Is that simply because we have to make

nice to the Americans? I think Nadhim put his finger on it. The

Prime Minister is not issued from the hip of politician. She wants to

understand what the implications are. She had been in a series of

meetings with President Erdogan, and she wants to see the briefing and

understand it and then will respond to that. There was with pressure to

respond within a new cycle and so on. The important is that we

disagree with it and think it is wrong. Isn't it the case that

because of Brexit, I know you were a Remain campaigner, but after Brexit,

we so need new deals with the Americans, the Turks, the Saudis,

the Chinese, that far from being able to stand up and speak truth to

power and say what we really think, we now have to be mealy-mouthed as a

country? I don't think that is right. There is scope for us to

disagree, sometimes privately rather than publicly, but there is scope

for us to disagree as candid friends. Whether we were in this

circumstance or not, the United States is a hugely important partner

for us for national security. Wanting to ensure that the US remain

engaged in Nato, putting Brexit aside, is an important objective for

us. The fact that the Prime Minister was able to go to the United States

on Thursday and Friday to do a press conference with the president and

talk about the 100% commitment to Nato is to our advantage. So as a

general rule, it is good to engage with countries like the US. You said

to put aside Brexit. Let's not put aside Brexit. Let's come to the

legislation coming to the House of Commons this week. Is that

commendable? Yes. And the government accept amendments to that? -- is it

amendable? There will be an opportunity to debate. But we have

to remember what this legislation is about. It is about triggering

article 50. During the referendum campaign, no one was talking about

whether there would be need for legislation. Jeremy Corbyn was

saying we should trigger it straightaway. But we respect the

Supreme Court judgment and there has to be legislation. We are bringing

that forward. But this is simply about whether we respect the result

of the referendum. We don't know which amendments will be taken by

the Speaker and so on, but there is a lot of support for guaranteeing

the rights of EU citizens in this country. In a sense, a parallel

question to the Trump refugee ban is guaranteeing the rights of

individuals. A lot of your fellow Conservative MPs are passionate

about that. If there was an amendment supported by the

opposition parties and enough Tory MPs to go through the House of

Commons, that would not be a disaster for the negotiations, would

it? We want to guarantee the position of EU nationals who are

here. The Prime Minister recently made it clear that that was a

priority area for her and she would like to progress that as quickly as

possible. But we also have to protect the positions of UK

nationals in the EU. If we could get this issue out of the way and

protect both EU nationals and UK nationals, we would love to do that.

But you don't want to deal just with EU nationals here and then find that

UK nationals are left in a vulnerable position. We want to deal

with the two together. A lot of people will have seen on television

those pictures of refugees who, because of the Trump ban, are now

caught in Chile and very unpleasant refugee camps with nowhere to go, no

future. Do you think in these circumstances, it might be a

generous and properly British thing to do to offer more of them a place

in this country? We have to remember what we are already doing. We are

the biggest financial benefactor to refugee support in that area. We are

putting in huge sums of money. The US are ahead, but certainly per

capita, we are the biggest contributor. It is early days, but

we sometimes underestimate the contribution we are already making

in terms of helping refugees, as it is right that we do so. One last

question. We have pulled out of your top. This is infuriating a lot of

scientists who see it as an incomprehensible decision. Why are

we pulling out of amendable? -- pulling out of Euratom? The

important point is that we need to see if there are aspects of the

nuclear industry that can work with other partners, and we will see if

that is what we can do. Thank you for coming in.

Having made his name in Hollywood as a romantic lead,

Matthew McConaughey is a chameleon who's transformed himself

beyond recognition on screens big and small, from Dallas Buyers Club

to True Detective to his latest cinema outing, Gold,

a true tale about a wildcat prospector with a dream, a dream

which takes him to the jungle and to the brink of madness.

We caught up just over a week ago on the day when another man

with a liking for gold - Donald Trump -

McConaughey shared his thoughts on President Trump too.

Now, sometimes, not that often, but sometimes the prospecting guards

are having a party at the pearly gates and we are really,

We dig down in there and we find a little metal comb...

Well, he literally has a dream one night, a literal dream that he knows

the man who knows where the gold is in Indonesia.

And he met this man nine years prior.

Hawks a watch, takes a one-way ticket to Indonesia and makes

And it feels a little bit like a kind of Texan morality tale.

The guys who get the dirt under their fingernails,

who sweat, do the real work, and then you've got Wall Street,

the snooty East Coast establishment trying to turn them over,

Absolutely, I mean, it was one hell of a coup for him

to even find the gold, but then the next problem occurs

As we all know, once you make it, how do you hang onto it?

Well, Wall Street, now that he's got all the gold,

The second half of the tale is, how do you hang on to what you have?

And he fights, we won't give it all away, but there is another huge

twist of course at the end of it and he doesn't prove

to be the great hero, the great visionary that perhaps

we thought he was all the way through the film.

So, this is quite an unfamiliar kind of story where the hustler,

the entrepreneur, is the hero of the story.

What, for you, is the underlying message?

The underlying message would be, there's a difference

This is, for Kenny Wells, the guy I played, for the real man,

this was not about greed, this was about a dream,

chasing it down, to pull it off, to stick it to the men,

It turns a lot of people mad in this, more people

than you probably think going into it, or maybe less by the

You're not sure who is really mad at the end.

For quite a lot of this film, I thought this is,

not Trump's America, but this is small-time central

redneck America sticking one up to the snooty East Coast

This is the guy that nobody bets on, this is like millions

of people in the world, not billions, that get out of bed

every day and don't have a ticket to the American dream.

They are going to have to hustle their way in the back

door, the side door, or come down the chimney

and be an entrepreneur and make it their own way,

OK, so every single American actor or arty type who comes over

to London dumps on Trump, you all completely hate him.

Do you think it's time that maybe Hollywood and the cultural elite

He's our president, and it's very dynamic and as divisive

of an inauguration in time that we've ever had.

At the same time, it's time for us to embrace,

shake hands with this fact and be constructive with him

So, even those who most strongly may disagree with his principles

or things he's said and done - which is another thing,

we will see what he does compared to what he had said -

no matter how much you even disagreed along the way,

it's time to think about how constructive can you be

because he's our president for the next four years at least.

Let me ask you about the other way a lot of people

in Britain know of you, which is through True Detective,

and Rusty there is kind of cynical, materialistic, pessimistic

I just wonder, unlike a film, to make a big long series

like True Detective, you must inhabit that character

To what extent does Rusty rub off on you, and to what extent

Philosophically I'm a lot on the same page, but me personally,

But one great thing about a long series like that is it's a 450-page

script instead of a film that's close to 120.

You have a longer first act of development of character.

When I first read that, the writing was so on fire

and things that were coming out of Rust Cohle's mouth.

Whether I agreed with him or I didn't, I loved

I see a propensity for obesity, poverty, fairy tales,

folks putting what few bucks they do have in little wicker baskets

I think it's safe to say that nobody here will be

Some folks enjoy community, common good.

Yeah, well if the common good has got to make up fairy tales then it's

And you and Woody Harrelson were very early in, in terms

of stepping to one side from a Hollywood career

and going into a big, long-form television series.

And look how many they are doing now.

A lot of that is from the success of that first season

of True Detective that Woody and I did.

Absolutely, I saw you smiling, remembering it.

Is the attraction simply the long-form aspect of it,

Great story, great character, and when I had only done films,

if you go back 20 years or even less, there is a bit of taboo to go

I'm happy to say that when this came across my desk

four or five years ago, I considered that for

about five seconds, and my agent and I said "Look

Look at the character, it's outstanding.

I don't give a damn what screen it's on."

And today some of the best stories are being told on the small screen.

Matthew McConaughey, thank you very much for joining us.

Coming up later this morning, Andrew Neil will be discussing

the consequences of Theresa May's meeting with President Trump

and the fallout from the deportations row with former

Ukip leader and Trump confidant, Nigel Farage.

That's the Sunday Politics at 11 o'clock here on BBC One.

Now, remoaner in chief or brave champion of

The Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron is with me.

Before we come onto Brexit, let me ask you about the Theresa May visit

because she had a very tough line to walk. She and we need to deal with

this man. We have to, for the future prosperity of our communities and

our children, have a good deal with America and yet we are all saying to

her, you must be more forthright, in a sense more insulting to the man

you are asking for a deal. It is a very hard job. It is not insulting

to stand up to somebody who is behaving in a way which is

appalling, arguing for the introduction of torture, being

misogynistic, and the appalling band of people entering the United States

from Muslim countries. We would have expected her to stand up to Donald

Trump, she ended up holding his hand. It seems to me that what we

have at the moment is a weak position. Donald

Trump himself wrote 30 years ago that the best time for you to make a

deal is when the other guy is desperate. She looked desperate. He

saw weakness is what you are saying. That's right. It is right for the

Prime Minister of Britain to speak to the president. If you only speak

to people who share your values, you will be very lonely. It was right to

talk to him, what was wrong was to effectively roll over in the face of

the ban of people entering from Muslim countries. We don't know what

she said to him privately, and again in this circumstance where we are

asking him for a generous trade deal, to grandstand against him

seems a dangerous thing for us to do. We do know that it took her

until the early hours of morning for Theresa May to even stand up and say

she gently disagreed with what Donald Trump was doing. She should

have opposed this from the beginning but when it became apparent it would

affect British people, Nadhim Zahawi we saw earlier on, Mo Farah, the guy

who drove me here this morning, it affects British people and you would

expect the British Prime Minister to fight Britain's corner. I want her

to be very clear, I want Theresa May to be what a good friend to America

would be and tell them how it is. Don't go over there and hold his

hand. She did get things out of him on Nato that many thought she would

not get. Assuming this ban is in place, it is a temporary ban being

challenged at the moment, but if it is still in place in the summer when

President Trump comes for a state visit, do you want to see him

addressing the House of Commons? It is important that you have leaders

of the country engaging with us. I thought a state visit was hasty,

particularly given the things he's been coming out with recently. You

should engage with people like this but there a massive difference

between engaging with Donald Trump and effectively giving succour to

the kind of thing he's coming out with. He is that moderate --

moderate internationalist consensus that Britain, America and Europe

have been the pillars of and we should not giving lightly because

Theresa May has put herself in a desperate position where she is

alienating our friends to the east and in a desperate position, and of

course Donald Trump can smell desperation 3000 miles away. Let's

turn to Brexit, it is clear you want us to stay inside the EU, is that

fair? It's never been anything other than the liberal commitment. And you

would like somehow to stop Brexit happening? My view is we will never

get a better deal than the one we currently have, but the reality is

the referendum took place so the Government has a mandate to

negotiate Brexit with the European Union. What Theresa May does not

have is a mandate to make the choice she just has which is to go for a

hard Brexit outside the single market. I would argue that she has

assumed the 52% meant what Nigel Farage means, I think that is a

massive insult to the majority of people who voted to leave. Again and

again, in that chair, that very chair, there was Boris Johnson,

Michael Gove, David Cameron, George Osborne and I asked every single one

of them, does coming out of the EU mean coming out of the single

market, and every single one of them said yes so I take it that people

understood that because it is so intertwined with being in the EU

that being in one means being in the other. Nigel Farage has also argued

for Britain being like Norway and Switzerland, countries outside the

EU and in the single market. If you were arguing Britain's corner in

Europe, Theresa May would argue for Britain to be in the single market.

She has waved the white flag and Donald Trump can see we are

desperate. Is your preferred option from where we are now after the

referendum to somehow stay inside the EU or is be outside the EU but

inside the single market? Put simply the British people have the right to

have the final decision on this. Theresa May will return with the

deal, we don't know what it will look like, she doesn't know what it

will look like, and somebody will decide on that deal. Will it be

Theresa May, the parliament, or the British people? We think the British

people should decide on the terms of the deal. The other option would be

for the British people to say thank you but no thank you, we will stay

put. The problem with that second referendum is that apart from the

Liberal Democrats, nobody is calling for its so the chances of it

happening are vanishingly small. You make a very strong case for the

Liberal Democrats growing in size. That wasn't my intention! Our job is

to scrutinise this process to say somebody is going to decide on this

deal, somebody is, Theresa May, her government, the Parliament or the

people, and we say it should be the people. We also say that it is

unlikely, I may be wrong, but it is unlikely we will ever doing deal

with Europe that is as good as the one we have now and we are not

ashamed of saying that is the case. Somebody needs to stand up for this

position. We are offering people a vehicle for British people to stay

paramount in this, for their will to be expressed at the end of this

process and not just the beginning. There is a very important issue

about to be discussed in the House of Commons as part of the Article 50

triggering debate, which is when the final vote on the deal can take

place in the House of Commons. As I understand it the Government is

saying at the end of the process when we have our agreement, we come

back to the House of Commons and you either accept the agreement or we

leave on WTO rules and that is it. The Labour Party and many others

want a vote before the end of the deal so what are the chances of

Parliamentary confrontations, if you like, during the two year process

before it's over? Of course Parliament should be holding the

Government to account, we want the best deal possible, which is quite

Theresa May giving up on the single market at the beginning is so

foolish. It puts her in a position where we have no serious negotiating

position. In the end the big issue is what kind of deal she will come

back with. This will dictate the kind of country we are, the

relationship we have with the rest of the world, how prosperous we are

for the next half a century and somebody will decide on that deal at

the end. Should it be Theresa May, the Government, the Parliament, or

the British people? The only democratic end is for the British

people to have the decision. You say you are speaking for the 48% of the

people who voted to stay. We are speaking the people who didn't vote

for the extreme version of Brexit that Theresa May has chosen. You

would be more effective if you were reaching out to other parties who

took the same view, like the SNP and Labour Party, but you won't because

in the end you are all still tribal. There is a danger in politics that

it does make you live inside those. During the referendum it was great

spending time with Caroline Lucas, Harriet Harman, and finding how much

we have in common but the reality is the two great threats Britain face

at the moment, one is hard Brexit and the other is a Tory government.

It seems to me the Liberal Democrats need to grow to provide an

alternative to the Tories. Can I ask you very quickly, with Article 50

coming to the House of Commons next week, is there any chance Theresa

May can be defeated on any of those amendments? Only if all parties vote

in the interests of their constituents and vote for there to

be democracy at the end of the process as well as at the beginning.

Thank you for talking to us. Next Sunday, Sir Bernard Hogan Howe

will join me to look back on his tumultuous career as head

of the Metropolitan Police.